Wrong Route For Martin
September 23rd, 2013
Joe gets that Doug Martin likely is a better No. 3 receiver than Kevin Ogletree, but that doesn’t say much.
Martin hasn’t shown good pass-catching skills all season yet the Bucs now seem to have added deep routes for Martin into the offense.
Joe doesn’t like it, which is why Joe posted the picture above from yesterday’s heinous loss to the Patriots. Martin doesn’t have the size, speed or leaping ability to be running post routes that are anything more than a decoy hoping for a breakdown in coverage.
The window to throw Martin the football is awfully tight, not Josh Freeman’s strength.
The Bucs would be better served finding a way to toss Martin successful swing passes, screen passes and checkdowns. It’s a mystery why that doesn’t happen.
September 23rd, 2013 at 10:20 am
This points to one of the many problems on offense. Underutilizing players and/or not having players to get the job done. This is on the coaches and GM. Martin is talented and could be an asset in the passing game. Sending him on go routes isn’t the way.
September 23rd, 2013 at 10:20 am
Anyone notice that whenever the Bucs try to run a screen play, it always gets broken up? I understand the ball carrier needs to make the first guy miss, but there’s NEVER blockers ahead of him, and he always seems to be met by a defender right when they get the ball.
I don’t understand how Sullivan was so good for a stretch last season, but can’t get anything done this year with SO much talent.
September 23rd, 2013 at 10:21 am
Martin is the only player on offense who hasn’t been a problem this year. He’s doing everything he can, unfortunately everything else on offense is a mess.
September 23rd, 2013 at 10:24 am
A TE and #3 WR would help a lot.
We have neither. (Though I think Page getting a shot at #3 would be better than Ogledrop)
When we had Clark it opened up the defenses more, they had to respect him.
You think Olgedrop, Page and Noble scared anyone yesterday? Nope.
September 23rd, 2013 at 10:31 am
Good article joe. And I agree with it. At the beginning of the season I thought for sure we’d see more screens for Martin.
September 23rd, 2013 at 10:38 am
Martin would benefit with the screen. At this point….. He’s our best player on offense and should be. I see no quit in him
September 23rd, 2013 at 10:43 am
Jrock:
Hard to make a screen work when the QB stares down the RB the entire time. He never sells it..
Why not put a receiver in backfield and than have him motion wide and create match-up..
IS KICKER CUT YET!!!
September 23rd, 2013 at 10:49 am
Just another player dropping a pass holding Freeman down.
A stud RB, a true #1 WR, and top notch #2WR. All that doesn’t make up for the lack of a #3 WR and a TE. How do you expect Josh to succeed?
Favre, Marino, Elway, Rodgers, Brees – They all were great because their pass catchers made them great. It wasn’t the other way around.
September 23rd, 2013 at 11:05 am
Man, I’m such an idiot for believing in them. I already renewed my my 2014′ tickets. I wonder if I can trade them in for Lightning Season tickets.
September 23rd, 2013 at 11:07 am
@Theodore, I wouldn’t say holding Freeman down, per se – he makes his own mistakes…BUT I get your point.
VJax is paid handsomely to catch the ball and he has a case of the droppsies lately. Mike hasn’t been, well, Mike this year so far…and both of them are banged up. Olgedrop is an epic fail and we don’t have a TE.
I think Schiano and Mark need to put down the arrogance\stubborn crack pipe and get a TE off the street…Visanthe Shiancoe?? I know he’s old and lost 2 steps, but that’s how desperate we SHOULD be. I’m not sure a gimpy crabtree is the answer.
September 23rd, 2013 at 11:08 am
I understand DM is more quick than fast, and is certainly no Marshall Faulk in the passing game but I DID like when they split him wide and had him run a go route against a LB. Depending on how the safety is playing he should be able to win that no? If Freeman would have led him more on the play it could have been a TD. But then again there’s no guarantee Martin would have, you know, caught it. Didn’t like him in slot though. Def not a Tomlinson or Faulk in that way.
On another note, number 5 is a MAJOR issue. But god dang it they gtta help him out to. I counted 4 drops in the first half. VJAX, as good as he is is certainly cuplable for killing off some scoring chances which really screwed momentum. What a shi show this team is..
September 23rd, 2013 at 11:13 am
I was wondering the same thing. Seems like every week there is something else that shoots the Bucs in the foot. Why send out Martin on deep pass route when he is being covered by a DB over 6 foot tall?
Yes Freeman is not getting the job done but the game plan is setting him up to fall even farther. The coaching staff is is joke.
September 23rd, 2013 at 11:14 am
Out of all that we are only one game out of the wild card.
September 23rd, 2013 at 11:17 am
We got ran down the field by delayed middle and drag routes. How we did not adjust and do the same is beyond me. How do we still not have easy dump off plays? Just get three yards and make the next down a little easier. I like #5 because he CAN make the throws, but after watching him add another three points to the Pats score with that VJax stare down, I don’t know what to think…..
September 23rd, 2013 at 11:22 am
Theodore Says:
September 23rd, 2013 at 10:49 am
“Just another player dropping a pass holding Freeman down.”
“Favre, Marino, Elway, Rodgers, Brees – They all were great because their pass catchers made them great. It wasn’t the other way around.”
I agree with helping Freeman out but to suggest that people are “holding him down” is nothing short of absurd. Josh Freeman is just about the most inaccurate Quarterback I have ever seen other than Tim Tebow. This has been his M.O since College and 5 YEARS in the league. At some point you are what you are.
BTW – Before Elway won back2back superbowls, he absolutely carried the team on his back. Other than a young Atwater, they had zero pro bowl caliber players. Aaron Rogers had the worst o-line in the league last yr outside of philly. I can go on but I literally can’t believe you put Freeman in the same sentence as those guys. I understand the point you were trying to make, but it’s apples and oranges.
September 23rd, 2013 at 11:22 am
“I don’t understand how Sullivan was so good for a stretch last season, but can’t get anything done this year with SO much talent.”
NFL D-coordinators are paid big money to study game film and figure out how to stop offenses. Sullivan’s offense started to click in 2012, but teams have figured it out towards the end of the season (and there’s not been enough adjustment by coaches or execution by players so far in 2013).
At least we had a few weeks of tearing it up last year. Look at the man who after week one was the offensive genius that was going to revolutionize the modern NFL offense (Chip Kelly)…seems D-coordinators figured out how to slow him down after just a couple weeks.
September 23rd, 2013 at 11:23 am
>>Why send out Martin on deep pass route when he is being covered by a DB over 6 foot tall?<<
Excellent question, and I think I have an answer…
Because Schiano and Sullivan were out-coached and was expecting Martin to be covered by a more lumbering LB.
September 23rd, 2013 at 11:28 am
Robert Meachem is the perfect counter to Theodore’s point. Looks pretty good with Brees in New Orleans, signs a FA deal in San Diego, is so bad they cut him after 1 year in a 4 year deal (they’re paying him $5 million to not be on their team this year). Average QBs needs great players; good QBs need solid playmakers; great QBs need average playmakers. Josh clearly falls into the average QB category.
September 23rd, 2013 at 11:35 am
I agree with tampa2….. Freeman should’ve never been a 1st round pick. But I’m actually tired of the Schiano talk. The man has brought us back 2 great D like a D minded coach should. You wanna lay blame….. Then do so on just Sully
September 23rd, 2013 at 11:36 am
preston parker was clutch…wth did they let him go. I think sometimes these teams get caught up in measureable like size and speed with guys like free and ogletree…but forget about the clutch guys. hell I would take parker or stroughter over ogletree all day from what I have seen!
September 23rd, 2013 at 11:37 am
Well and the obvious
September 23rd, 2013 at 11:39 am
dp4life22 says :
“IS KICKER CUT YET!!!”
It’s the curse of Amanda Tynes I tell ya.
September 23rd, 2013 at 11:47 am
Forcing the ball to Martin is not the answer. This is taking the term Bell Cow to a completely unreasonable level. We have to start spreading the ball around. Check the stats for the past couple of years to see how many players are touching the ball. Our opponents are having 2,3 and even 4 RB’s touch the ball. Martin will not last 5 years at this pace and it’s unnecesary.
September 23rd, 2013 at 11:47 am
Mike…yup I’ve been blaming Sully since the Jets game. There is NOTHING that makes this offense look complicated to learn. If I hear that line one more time I’m going to pull out what hair I have left on my head. The Bucs need a new OC. Teams are looking at the tape and finding it easy to stop Sully’s O. They need a new OC and a fresh start. What they don’t need is a QB coach turned OC. Schiano is going nowhere until atleast after the season, so no sense worrying about that right now Bucs fans.
I want to know whose idea it was to call a deep pass on 3rd and 1 and not run Martin. Sully? Then after not getting the 1st down they decided to run on 4 and 1 and not make it. Sully?
September 23rd, 2013 at 11:48 am
The offensive playcalling assumes we have an accurate long-range QB, excellent one-on-one receivers and a line that can hold an above average time. The routes are alot of ‘go’ routes and jump balls. We have the receivers. We don’t have that QB and the scary truth is that this line looks better on paper than it’s performing. Joseph-Nicks-Penn? Struggling.
The question is how many percentage points do you have to give Free to compensate for this playcalling in order to make a fair comparison. Whatever it is, Free still comes out unacceptable. Maybe with a new QB, Sullivan will change the playbook finally.
September 23rd, 2013 at 11:52 am
@bucrightoff – You are so wrong! Favre was nothing without Don Bebe! Cobb, Jones and Nelson, three WRs who everybody knew before Rodgers. Even Brady has super duper rookies to make him look good.
Ogletree, who had no problem last year making Romo look good, is now submarining Freeman, probably at Schiano’s behest.
Poor Josh has nobody.
September 23rd, 2013 at 11:54 am
Defenses are keying on Martin..He needs to be a decoy to open up space for others.
We need to run mostly 4 & 5 receiver sets to force the defense into another look..I don’t think we have the QB and receivers to do this though.
September 23rd, 2013 at 11:54 am
Sent a RB who “can walk under the table” out deep to catch balls from a historically inaccurate quarterback. No way that ends badly.
September 23rd, 2013 at 12:01 pm
I like Page playing in the slot, but this entire offense has given up….they have no drive they don’t believe. Put in Glennon next week and let him play the rest of the season too see what we’ve got with him. No reason to wait any longer
September 23rd, 2013 at 12:07 pm
Theodore Says:
September 23rd, 2013 at 11:23 am
>>Why send out Martin on deep pass route when he is being covered by a DB over 6 foot tall?<<
Excellent question, and I think I have an answer…
Because Schiano and Sullivan were out-coached and was expecting Martin to be covered by a more lumbering LB.
They probably thought they put a DE on WR, Clayborn vs Thompkins WTF
September 23rd, 2013 at 12:07 pm
One upside, we’re 0-3 against teams with a combined 8-1 record.
September 23rd, 2013 at 12:10 pm
Sully better find some better plays on the “Denny’s Menu” he is looking at. DM22 as a wide out is not going to get it done.
September 23rd, 2013 at 12:13 pm
The season ain’t over yet. We can make the playoffs at 9-7! The NFC is bad right now!
September 23rd, 2013 at 1:02 pm
Excuses Excuses! Brady had no name receivers yesterday and look at the score board! A good quarterback makes his receivers look good. Everyone complains of drops but how many balls were in the breadbasket…none….they were all fingertip catches because freeman’s accuracy sucks!
September 23rd, 2013 at 1:20 pm
Even Brady has super duper rookies to make him look good.
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What? Thats a really really asinine thing to say… which guy yesterday would you consider “Super Duper rookies”?
September 23rd, 2013 at 1:21 pm
Did that guy really say Brady has “Super Duper Rookies” ? SMH
September 23rd, 2013 at 1:23 pm
Even Brad(y) has super duper rookies to make him look good.
————————–
LMAO thats the funniest sh!t I’ve heard all day!!
September 23rd, 2013 at 1:52 pm
Three of our next four games are at home. Our next four opponents are all 1-2 right now. Three of them have given up more than 70 points already. We have an upcoming bye.
This is the absolute best time to start Mike Glennon, ease him into his new role, and tweak the offense to suit his skill set.
Or, we can foolishly stick with Freeman and watch our season drop even further into the crapper.
September 23rd, 2013 at 1:53 pm
“Excuses Excuses! Brady had no name receivers yesterday and look at the score board!”
He’s Tom. Fucckin. Brady. The Top 5 QB of All Time.
I was on the defense for all the penalties the last few weeks. But they played like they were consciously trying to avoid penalties. I say let the Hawk out of his cage. If we get penalties, but make their WRs and QB sht their pants, and score less than 20 points, then oh fucckin well. How much worse can things get?
September 23rd, 2013 at 1:54 pm
“Excuses Excuses! Brady had no name receivers yesterday and look at the score board!”
He’s Tom. Fuccin. Brady. The Top 5 QB of All Time.
I was on the defense for all the penalties the last few weeks. But they played like they were consciously trying to avoid penalties. I say let the Hawk out of his cage. If we get penalties, but make their WRs and QB sht their pants, and score less than 20 points, then oh fuccin well. How much worse can things get?
September 23rd, 2013 at 1:55 pm
The problem is the Bucs organization think there to good for some odd reason.
My point know it alls…Short & Brief!
That Buccaneer Man BS and you homers running players and coaches out of town!
The Bucs passing up premium players in the draft and FA since our Superbowl. Is Tampa scary..Are we afraid of a player with a attitude because Talib & Blount kicked our ass. DJ toes on the line worked the jets td drive on the Bucs. Plus he scored. Im so tired of you dont know sh%ts at alls. I been said Preston Parker and JoshFree connection in 2010 showed j5 can hit the short route but these b!tch boys on this site dogged me.
I said you cant coach grown men like a pop-warner team with all the screaming and yelling. Intimidation cant coach or teach anybody.
You maggots talk bad about Dallas Clark when the threat of him in the middle made Sully offense threatening. Ran him out of town..You clowns…bet ya miss him now!
Got all these dam TE’s and they all below average. Got all these dam RB but we running Doug 29 times a game. All these underutilized players and roster spots sound like bad something.
Yall band together and open your eyes or STFu talking to me. Its hard enuff for me to post one remark. Sac is marked. On the blacklist!
September 23rd, 2013 at 2:11 pm
The “Mystery” is why we keep Sullivan ?
The NFL caught up with his lame ass offense last year, and he has not adjusted.
September 23rd, 2013 at 2:34 pm
sorry Joe, since this isnt being addressed, I gotta throw this out there:
I saw us down by 17 with 13 minutes left, at the NE 33 yd line, it was 4th & 13. And we GO FOR IT??? Instead of kicking a 47-49 yd FG???
Who do you think makes the final decision to go for it on 4th down??? Sully?? Please…
Did Schiano really like our chances of converting 4th & 13 better than kicking a 47-49 yd FG?? Where we could have cut it from a 3 score lead, down to a 14 point lead with still 13 minutes on the clock??
Schiano had a moment of insanity, or straight up quit at the end of the 3rd quarter.
The guy was 4th down happy with 2 previous attempts, and he had a moment of insanity and went for it on 4th & 13! ….And don’t give me sht about not trusting the kicker. When youre still in the game, you have no choice but to trust your kicker! We could have kicked a 47 yd FG to cut the lead to 14! How often does our team convert a 3rd/4th & 10+???
And even if we MISS the FG, at least it would show that Schiano was still playing to win, and that he wasnt giving up yet. But he did give up. After just 3 quarters.
Schiano’s Gotta Go!
September 23rd, 2013 at 2:44 pm
Theodore Says:
September 23rd, 2013 at 11:52 am
@bucrightoff – You are so wrong! Favre was nothing without Don Bebe! Cobb, Jones and Nelson, three WRs who everybody knew before Rodgers. Even Brady has super duper rookies to make him look good.
Ogletree, who had no problem last year making Romo look good, is now submarining Freeman, probably at Schiano’s behest.
Poor Josh has nobody.
Theodore, I hope you’re being sarcastic. A great QB can make average receivers look great. A few case studies:
1.Alvin Harper- Leaves Dallas and comes to Tampa and is one of the biggest free agent busts ever.
2.Robert Meachem, Devery Henderson and any WR who’s left New Orleans since Brees has been there. Self explanatory.
3.Greg Jennings- Seen any highlights of him in Minnesota this year since leaving Green Bay?
4.Deion Branch- Don’t recall him doing much when he left Brady.
Just a few I could think of off the top of my head.
September 23rd, 2013 at 2:56 pm
^ our kicker whiffed a 38 harder
So… we essentially don’t have a kicker.
September 23rd, 2013 at 2:57 pm
Heh… Yarder, not harder… Damn auto correct.
Although, our kicker probably does whiff a harder from time to time…
September 23rd, 2013 at 3:44 pm
It’s funny that as long as i remember the Bucs have not run screens often or effectively while getting burned by them very regularly.
September 23rd, 2013 at 3:51 pm
FYI Theodore is a reverse troll. He’s not actually serious, but when you deadpan his posts you think he’s crazy.
September 23rd, 2013 at 5:17 pm
Anyone notice that whenever the Bucs try to run a screen play, it always gets broken up? I understand the ball carrier needs to make the first guy miss, but there’s NEVER blockers ahead of him, and he always seems to be met by a defender right when they get the ball.
I don’t understand how Sullivan was so good for a stretch last season, but can’t get anything done this year with SO much talent.
Ive seen alot of screen blown up this year…..
It doesnt catch people off-guard like it used to…..but by the same token I have seen the draw get tons of yards……
Its all about tendencies and the flavor of the month in the nfl
September 23rd, 2013 at 7:02 pm
kickers miss. no kicker goes 100%. you suck it up and move on. when another kicking situation comes up, as a coach, you need to coach him up, tell him to forget about the last kick, and make the shot.
4th and fckin 13 on the 33??? The way our offense struggles in 3rd and long????
Dumbest play of the game. And because of that, we’re either gonna have to get another kicker or be stuck with a pissed off kicker whose coach sucked out all of his confidence.
SCHIANO’S GOTTA GO!
BRING CHUCKY BACK HOME!
September 23rd, 2013 at 8:14 pm
I’m glad you’re writing an article on this, Joe, b/c I agree that he shouldn’t be part of the normal route running receiver rotation(RRRR 😉 ) kidding aside, like we want our most valuable player running routes across the middle and being knocked out by a heat seeking missile safety. Doug’s already had a concussion this year. Stupid, stupid, stupid.