The Wobbly Pirate Ship
September 20th, 2013
Joe always used to chuckle when Bucs fans were often angry with BSPN (not that the outfit doesn’t provide enough ammo on a daily basis for people to be angry) or NFL Network because they didn’t talk enough about the Bucs.
Well, if you want national outlets to talk Bucs, either the team needs to win or there must be a lot of drama going on. Given the fact the Bucs are 0-2, you can figure out why Bucs news is now all the rage among national media types.
Enter known stalker and girlfriend beater Jay Mariotti, who decided to pile on with a unique take on an otherwise nuclear blast on the team.
Mariotti drops references to “One Hazmat Place” and Bucs quarterback “Rip Van Freeman” in documenting what has to have been a harrowing past six weeks or so for Bucs rock star general manager Mark Dominik and Bucs commander Greg Schiano.
In an otherwise scathing column, Mariotti at least gives credit to Bucs star cornerback Darrelle Revis for trying to right the pirate ship.
Whether that love-in will lead to any measure of equilibrium on this wobbling pirate ship is your guess or mine. All I know is, I’ve never seen a month quite like it — so many detrimental stories from all sides attacking a normally efficient organization. “I thought those New York days were over,” said Revis, smiling, knowing the New York, Philadelphia and Boston media would be salivating. And while Revis again stressed the significance of this team staying together when so much is wrong and uttered these vital words — “I think the best thing through these situations is to be honest, and for us as a team to stick together. A win will change everything. A win will change this whole atmosphere.” — the reality of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers can’t be changed.
One, they don’t have a quarterback.
Two, their coach has lost seven of his last eight games and, no matter what Revis says, is a couple of more bad losses from losing his team — and, ultimately, his job. If Schiano is an avowed disciplinarian, why so many penalties, many of the idiot variety? If he’s an authoritarian, why so much disarray?
Mariotti makes a salient point that Joe has brought up previously. Schiano is a disciplinarian, meaning stupid mental mistakes are usually intolerable and drummed out of the players’ heads in practice. Yet many of those stupid penalties can be directly connected to costing the Bucs one game and perhaps both (remember, Vincent Jackson had a touchdown catch voided last Sunday due to a penalty).
Combined with the dysfunctional way the offense acted to open the season, it makes Joe scratch his head wondering what the heck the team had been practicing throughout the summer and preseason.
When a team with a disciplinarian coach plays undisciplined, that’s not good for anyone’s job security, players or coaches.
September 20th, 2013 at 12:13 pm
The team has lost 7 of the last 8 games. And for fun, here are Freeman’s stats in that time
150/294 (51%), 1895 yards, 8TDs, 12INTS
So the coach lost the 7 of 8, or the QB? Likely a combination of both, but that stat line puts it more on Freeman than Schiano.
September 20th, 2013 at 12:18 pm
So – its okay to bring up someone’s character, as long as its the RIGHT person…..
Yeah, that figures.
September 20th, 2013 at 12:20 pm
All off season we have had Josh’s 4000 yards thrown in our face by all the Freemanites as to the proof that he is a franchise QB… Now all the sudden his stats are meaningless and its all Schiano’s fault. LMAO
September 20th, 2013 at 12:45 pm
Jon Kitna had a 4,000 yard season one time! Is he a franchise quarterback?
September 20th, 2013 at 12:46 pm
C’mon. Marriotti’s lawyer revealed that he only pulled out his girlfriend’s hair extensions, not her real hair. So obviously Marriott is the real victim here.
September 20th, 2013 at 12:50 pm
Mariotti, has nothing to write about. all he is doing is regurgitating old rumors. when we beat the Pats this week he’ll of course have an excuse for the Pats. Mariotti, Please stay out of Tampa’s business. you obviously are feeding late off the bullcrap media circus.
GO BUCS!!!!
September 20th, 2013 at 1:04 pm
No this is the teams fault. Schiano is partly to blame and Freeman is partly to blame and as good as our defense has played they have collapsed in the final minute of both games so they share some of the blame too. This TEAM needs to start playing better. Certainly eliminating the penalties is a good start but it’s just execution. We need to catch passes when they are catchable and we need to hit open receivers when they are open. Again, for those who want to blame it all on Freeman, I told you to re-watch the game and here’s a breakdown for you
http://www.bucsnation.com/2013/9/18/4744002/josh-freeman-vs-game-film-a-very-different-story
We’re very close to firing on all cylinders. I haven’t given up the season yet.
September 20th, 2013 at 1:06 pm
Ok, no real bucs fan is unaware of Freemans INTs, QBR in recent games, including last season. He’s inconsistent.
But 2013, is a new season with new players. So lets just focus on the NOW. Freeman has been inconsistent and is one of the worst rated QBs this year (Brady is rated worse). But Martin played awful during week 1, yet not ONE SINGLE complaint. Our offensive line was horrible in week one, which contributed to Martin AND Freemans bad play, but NO ONE called for the O-lines coaches head.
And we lead the league in penalties, have given up 220 yards in two games, 23? total penalties. Thats 2 100 yard drives for 14 points with 20 yards to spare.
So I get it. Freeman has been like the Montu at BG. But we dont have a 1 man team. If you want to criticize our play, fine. But at least be fair and point out the rest of the teams/coaches mistakes while youre at it.
If you continue to ignore the penalties, o-line, inability to close games, then you obviously have a personal issue with Freeman. That means youre wayyyyy to involved with the game, and need to relax the F up.
September 20th, 2013 at 1:08 pm
^^^^ what Bobby said.
September 20th, 2013 at 1:10 pm
@Bobby
I read that article. It is very good. Problem is, it doesn’t blame the loss entirely on the quarterback so it couldn’t possibly be credible.
People that watched the game objectively and not just the stat line see that Freeman wasn’t nearly as bad as has been portrayed. Hopefully the offense can click at some point or even this Sunday so we can get back on track.
Go Bucs!
September 20th, 2013 at 1:15 pm
That’s a bingo!
September 20th, 2013 at 1:21 pm
A true disciplinarian puts the fear of god in people so they either do not commit mistakes or only make them once. So, one of two things is occurring… Either Schiano isn’t the disciplinarian people make him out to be or the players do not fear him. It is one or the other.
September 20th, 2013 at 1:23 pm
With rational comments by Bobby & WCBF, I’m gonna leave JBF now on a positive note before the Debbie Downers come flooding in!
14 Games to Right the Ship Bucs Fans!! We’re not dead yet motherf-ers! Go Bucs!
September 20th, 2013 at 1:23 pm
“People that watched the game objectively”
WCBF,
I hope you aren’t including yourself in that as one of the founding members of the JFro mob who has incessantly told us how good he is from his 4,000 yards and 26 TD’s from last season. You’re unable to watch objectively.
September 20th, 2013 at 1:24 pm
Perhaps.
But have penalties, o-line, inability to close games been an ongoing issue beginning 58 starts ago, that never totally rights itself?
September 20th, 2013 at 1:24 pm
Thanks Bobby I missed that article. I’ve been trying to explain that when you break the game down it’s not all on Josh. It’s nice to see it all laid out but I doubt it will change the mind of the guys here who have already made up their mind and just don’t like Freeman. They’ve found the WMD in Iraq.
September 20th, 2013 at 1:25 pm
^^^^^ great point Pruritus Ani. (love the name)
September 20th, 2013 at 1:26 pm
uh oh. here comes Oily. more downers are sure to follow. Im out!
September 20th, 2013 at 1:58 pm
“A true disciplinarian puts the fear of god in people so they either do not commit mistakes or only make them once. So, one of two things is occurring… Either Schiano isn’t the disciplinarian people make him out to be or the players do not fear him. It is one or the other.”
Or maybe the other option is these players are human and they make mistakes regardless of the coach being a disciplinarian or not. I’ve read all the stories about training camp and all the pundits attacking Schiano are attacking him because of him being too strict. So now he’s NOT strict?? Please….
September 20th, 2013 at 2:13 pm
@lightningbuc
Did Freeman not throw for 4000+ yards? (Not a stat that I brought up routinely by the way.) Did Freeman not throw for 26 TDs last year? Just because I am using facts to voice/prove my opinion (rather than “body language” and “photo shoots”) does not mean I have the inability to be objective.
Anyone that actually watched the game AND doesn’t have pure, blind hatred for Freeman knows that he was better than his stats would indicate. That doesn’t mean he had a “good” game, by any stretch of the word. He simply was not as bad as the known haters and/or people that only looked at the stats are suggesting.
@Pruritus Ani
Dude, great post. Agreed 100%.
September 20th, 2013 at 2:22 pm
If all you did was read the articles and never watched the games, you would think this team was 0-200.
September 20th, 2013 at 2:51 pm
When you can’t handle facts and reality, it’s always easier to attack the voice giving them.
September 20th, 2013 at 3:01 pm
So, when Freeman throws 26 TDs that is the “Freemanites” ignoring the issues and focusing on misleading facts BUT when the stats are not in Freeman’s favor, then all of a sudden they tell the whole truth.
Funny how that works Oil Derrick Brooks.
The only people that can’t handle reality or facts are the ones that think Freeman is this team’s sole/main issue. Not the 200+ yards in penalties through two games. Not the horrific run game in week one. Not the defense that has given up the lead with a total of what, 5 seconds left, combined, in both games?
No, you guys are right, Freeman is the only issue here. The fact that analysts who only look at stats agree with you means nothing.
September 20th, 2013 at 3:13 pm
So let me get this straight. You have a top 10 wr. An excellent #2 wr. Top 5 rb. And a defense that gave up 16 and 16 points back to back weeks and josh freeman who’s ranked 30th in the nfl in terms of qb play, isn’t te problem?
September 20th, 2013 at 3:23 pm
The difference being, no one has watch any of the other issues stay static over going into 5 seasons now.
Trust me, if I saw all those penalties since 2009, or the running game struggling, I would say the same thing.
Doug Martin bounces back after 1 bad game. Plus his entire great rookie year.
The defense was terrible last year. It’s greatly improved this year.
Freeman? We see the same inconsistencies that have plagued him since college. Accuracy issues? Same thing.
September 20th, 2013 at 4:29 pm
So please spare us the whole “Woe is Freeman, everyone is treating him differently” routine. He has earned that criticism far more that he had earned that $26,000,000.00.
September 20th, 2013 at 4:42 pm
That is a great opinion Oil Derrick Brooks.
September 20th, 2013 at 4:46 pm
Italics!!! You are implying something. Thanks!
September 20th, 2013 at 4:52 pm
I’m just emphasizing the opinion part of it. As in, it could be entirely wrong and in my opinion, is wrong. (Which could also be wrong.)
I guess we will have to wait and see.
In the mean time…GO BUCS!
September 20th, 2013 at 5:07 pm
Everyone has opinions on here. But, what is not opinion is that he has been inconsistent overall in his 58 starts.
He may have great stretches of games, great 4th quarters, Hell, even a great 2010. But, 2009- to now, as a body of work, is the epitome of inconsistency.
I’m sorry, but I expect more from 1st round picks, especially that you trade up for.
This is what Dominick said re: Freeman in 2009. “…a franchise quarterback as a guy who is going to get a team into the playoffs, a guy who is going to be here longer than one contract, a guy who can give a team a chance to win every Sunday”.
So, what am I missing? He fulfilled any of the expectations that Dominick had for him?
September 20th, 2013 at 5:41 pm
@Chris said:
“So let me get this straight. You have a top 10 wr. An excellent #2 wr. Top 5 rb. And a defense that gave up 16 and 16 points back to back weeks and josh freeman who’s ranked 30th in the nfl in terms of qb play, isn’t the problem?”
Not totally, no. Our ‘great receivers’ have dropped some good passes. Our defense has pissed away two leads in the final seconds. And we have played two defenses that are ranked higher than our defense. Jets have the #2 defense and the Saints have the #11 defense. We are ranked #13.
September 20th, 2013 at 5:46 pm
@Chris…. did you even read that article I referenced earlier?
http://www.bucsnation.com/2013/9/18/4744002/josh-freeman-vs-game-film-a-very-different-story
If you think it’s all on Freeman and everyone else is great you need to read this and be a little more realistic.
September 20th, 2013 at 5:47 pm
Freeman was a tie-breaker away from getting the Bucs into the playoffs in 2010.
Contract question is still in the air, depending on how this season goes.
Freeman does give the team a chance to win every sunday, often despite the rest of the team. How many times has Freeman given us the lead late 4th quarter? Last year the defense did everything in their power to prevent wins. This year its the penalties.
September 20th, 2013 at 6:05 pm
@Oil Derrick Brooks
I am sorry but I honestly feel he gives us a chance to win every game. You may not agree and that is fine but it is not fact one way or the other. Yes, his career has been inconsistent but so has the team around him.
The offense as a whole, not just Freeman, is off to a slow start this year. It has only been two games though and there has DEFINITELY been some questionable play calling and game day decisions.
There is still time.
September 20th, 2013 at 6:10 pm
I also have throw in, when speaking of his career, that the 2011 Buccaneers were a COMPLETE TRAINWRECK of a team from top to bottom. From the head coach all the way down to the backup punter, that team was horrific and I sincerely doubt even the great Tom Br-ady or Peyton Manning would have fared much better.
(Obviously there is no backup punter, I was just trying to make a point.)
September 20th, 2013 at 7:35 pm
I will ask the Freeman supporters again since no one answered before:
Is there anything that could cause you to lose faith in him on or off the field?
40% completion rating? 6 int game? 5 game losing streak where he performs terribly? an arrest? Anything at all whatsoever?
Specifics would be great.
Or, is that your guy no matter how he performs?
September 20th, 2013 at 7:43 pm
WestCoastBucsFan….”I also have throw in, when speaking of his career, that the 2011 Buccaneers were a COMPLETE TRAINWRECK of a team from top to bottom.”
Good point, but I tell you one thing when Freeman drops back to pass I hold my breath every time. Maybe you don’t, but I do. I’m at that point now. I used to be a “come on Free, come on Free” every time he dropped back to pass. Now I hold my breathe as if he’s a rookie. That has all changed for me. All I have left for him is hope, but you can only hold onto hope for so long. Maybe other fans have already reached that point of hope a long time ago and have already given up on Freeman??
September 20th, 2013 at 8:15 pm
Typical national media cum dumpster…
Mariotti says in his article about Revis:
“Hell, even when the Bucs tried to do something fun and bring back their retro “creamsicle” jerseys for Sunday’s game at New England, along with the winking “Bucco Bruce” helmets from the Big Sombrero days, the league said nope. ”
Uhhhhh…. You’re an idiot Mariotti. Wrong game.
September 20th, 2013 at 8:24 pm
It’s not about the end game stats Oil Derrick Brooks. Tom Br-ady had under 50% completion against the Jets.
When Josh is obviously the reason we are losing is when I lose faith. Since he has been here, that has never been the case. He has never been THE reason we are losing. You may not agree but I have watched just about every single game and rarely is Freeman the cause of a loss.
September 20th, 2013 at 8:50 pm
Eventually people run out of patience with coulda shoulda and gonna and expect things like playoff appearances.
Five year drought is lionesque and brownesq.
Thus the Anxiety.
September 20th, 2013 at 9:15 pm
I hope we can beat the Pats this week. That would right the ship.
Freeman clicking this weekend would be awesome. We need it.
September 20th, 2013 at 9:26 pm
Bobby Says:
September 20th, 2013 at 5:41 pm
@Chris said:
“So let me get this straight. You have a top 10 wr. An excellent #2 wr. Top 5 rb. And a defense that gave up 16 and 16 points back to back weeks and josh freeman who’s ranked 30th in the nfl in terms of qb play, isn’t the problem?”
Not totally, no. Our ‘great receivers’ have dropped some good passes. Our defense has pissed away two leads in the final seconds. And we have played two defenses that are ranked higher than our defense. Jets have the #2 defense and the Saints have the #11 defense. We are ranked #13.
________________________________________________________
Bobby,
We just held Drew Brees and the Saints offense to 16 points. Shut up dude.
2nd: EVERY NFL TEAM HAS DROPS! The best QBs suffer from drops. Last 2 seasons, the Falcons were top 5 in the NFL in drops. They won how many games and went where exactly? Wes Welker is one of the best WRs in the game and he dropped a doozy in the Super Bowl.
Good QBs don’t throw there hands in the air and bitch whine and moan when things go wrong.
I think Penalties: Denver, and San Fransisco also have just as many.
Look at Josh Freeman’s body language and tell me you feel comfortable with him and handing him a 16 mm a year contract?
September 20th, 2013 at 9:32 pm
Is Josh Freeman the ONLY reason we are losing? Not 100%, not. I do have the questions of Sully’s playcalling yes. But Josh Freeman should not be excused either. You freemanites claim he did everything right.
Look, every QB suffers the same things Freeman does. Couple drops, sure. But no one recognizes when Vincent Jackson or Mike Williams bails josh out of horrendous throws, now do you? That atlanta game to close the season, Freeman throws two balls at Jacksons feet with a clean pocket and no one around Jackson. The balls they rip out of opposing DBs hands.
You can call me a Freeman hater all you want. But hes not making enough plays to move the chains. The coaching staff does not trust him with the game on the line because of his inability to go through progressions and look defenders off. Freeman IS TOO EASY for opposing defenses to defend because he locks onto his first presnap read 99/100 times.
You all have to recognize this right? If HOF QBs see this, if coaches see this, heck if the non delusional buc fans see this, even a few of my non buc fans see it when watching the game.
Anything other is pure homerism.
September 20th, 2013 at 9:33 pm
And again, time after time, we continue to lose the T.O.P. battles each week, by an average of 6 minutes and this dates back to the end of last year. That does not help even a great defense.
September 20th, 2013 at 9:40 pm
“Freeman IS TOO EASY for opposing defenses to defend because he locks onto his first presnap read 99/100 times.”
Chris…yup I have great seats at rayjay. I noticed it in a big way last Sunday. That’s one of the reasons why I hopped off his bandwagon. He just pretty much throws to anyone of his talented receivers and hopes of the best covered or not.
September 20th, 2013 at 9:42 pm
“hopes for the”
September 20th, 2013 at 9:47 pm
1987, I like your enthusiasm as a buc fan, but I’m glad you hopped off the train. If we want to win the division, it’s not Freeman whos going to right the ship.
I did a little evaluation. People want to bash Glennon, and I’m not here to endorse him as the saviour. But when you look in pre-season, the guys who were surrounding him every snap, 95% of them are not even on an NFL roster besides the RBs, Larsen, Carimi, and Merdeith. Ogeltree (terrible). The rest are cut. Gone. Not on an nfl team right now.
I want to see Glennon with guys like Jackson, Williams, Martin, Penn, Zuttah, Joseph, Nicks, Dotson.
September 20th, 2013 at 10:24 pm
chris…I know what your saying, but we don’t call the shots unfortunately. I DO know what I saw last week with Freeman. I’ve learned the TV does not show a lot of what’s going on with him. Up until now I just went to about 3-4 games a year, mostly in the nosebleeds. So I never saw it up close. I’m sure the tape don’t lie either. I just hope they can fix him if that’s what’s going on.
September 20th, 2013 at 10:25 pm
@Chris….so you just go by your own evaluation regardless of what the breakdown of the game actually said. Yes…we just held Drew Brees and the Saints to 16 points. Didn’t I just say that their defense is ranked higher than ours?? So when we do it to the Saints it’s “good defense” but when the Saints do it to us it’s “bad offense”???? Do you not see the illogical thinking in that??
I’m gonna tell you right now, say what you want…I’ve watched that game over again and read the breakdown…something you refuse to do. Freeman did NOT have a bad game. The O-line had a bad game (penalties) The receivers had a so so game (4 drops) but Freeman did NOT have a bad game. He had a decent game…not great but not bad. When you only throw 22 passes (He threw 27 but five were called back) and you have 4 drops, several on third down that killed momentum, and a TD that got called back on a penalty…it’s hard to get momentum. He had five bad plays the whole game and 5 plays don’t cost the game. You drop passes on third down and it’s almost like an interception because it causes a change of possession.
It’s a team game Chris. Try to be objective about this team. If Freeman plays poorly I’ll call him out for it. I said the pick was a terrible decision. The sack fumble…Freeman’s fault. He held it too long. If you always look at the stat sheet and don’t look at all that went into those stats you will never understand the nuances of this game. Last year when Thomas 2.2 was slamming McCoy along with SteveK and a bunch of others on this site I said McCoy would be a pro bowler. All they did was look at his stats but they didn’t look at the havoc he created and how he caused other players to get sacks or tackles by redirecting the play and blowing it up. It’s not always how many sacks someone has or how many completions someone has. Stats don’t tell the whole story.
Of course I’d like to have an Andrew Luck or Tom Brady. Who wouldn’t? The bottom line is we don’t have and Glennon is not going to be better than Freeman. He’s Josh Freeman with less mobility. Maybe in a few years when he gets up to speed he’ll be ready but he isn’t now. Our best chance of winning is with Freeman. If the O-line starts to click we’ll start winning. Last week it wasn’t Freeman. It was the entire offense.
September 20th, 2013 at 10:26 pm
chris…my only point about the QB position and Glennon is this. From what I saw last week. You can’t do no worse.
September 21st, 2013 at 9:03 am
Ahh Bobby, I read the analysis. But you’re going to tell me, with the offensive fire power we have, Doug Martin 149 yards rushing. Lining up 8 in the box, Freeman couldnt sustain shit.
The big problem, that you see, and I see on the film, yes Bobby, I read your article. It was 2 drops that were good balls thrown. The others were not well thrown balls that you expect WRs to make a play on. But Freemans biggest flaw here is he stares down WRs constantly CONSTANTLY! He can’t see the field well enough to hit his 2nd and 3rd progressions. Say what you want about the TE and 3rd WR, if we had one, you wouldn’t know anyways because every time I turn on the NFL ALL 22 breakdown, Freeman will lock onto the first presnap read. You faill to answer that question. That leaves plays on the field constantly.
September 21st, 2013 at 11:56 am
@Chris…How many times was Freeman in 3rd and long because of false starts and stupid penalties? How many of those drops came on third down? 3 of them. Hard to sustain drives when you’re being put in third and long all day against a defense ranked better than ours. Yes, Martin ahd a good game and Freeman would have had a good game too if our receivers could catch the ball consistently. Don’t tell me about good ball thrown…if it hits the receiver in the hands it’s a good throw. If you watched that game again and saw the throws Freeman made then you only saw 4 bad throws. You also saw 5 throws get called back and one TD get called back. I know you want to blame it on Freeman but again….losing that game was not his fault. He did what he had to do at the end to once again put us in position to win that game. He sustained a long drive and although the kicker missed the field goal we were in position to win with less than a minute left. For the second week the defense could not close it out. Great defenses just don’t fold like that. Could we have scored more points? Sure but who cares? There were enough points on the board to win. Most games come down to who can close it out in the final minute.