Dominik Explains 2013 Confidence In Freeman
August 11th, 2013
Josh Freeman keeps getting high marks from the Bucs hierarchy.
Rockstar general manager Mark Dominik took to the SiriusXM NFL Radio airwaves yesterday with Zig Fracassi and Booger McFarland and was asked why he believes in Freeman in 2013. Dominik said his confidence comes from practice, and Year 2 of Mike Sullivan.
“I think he’s played smart all preseason long. I think that’s the main thing,” Dominik said of Freeman. “He’s been very good with the football, not turning it over not forcing throws. He did another good practice out there [Saturday], with the two-minute situation, four-minute drills, different ways to make sure that we’re moving the football. I think again, younger quarterbacks, I think they all need it, but, you know, consistency of who the playcaller is, consistency in the system are all important elements of it.”
So, there you have it. Freeman is playing smart and secure ball, and he’s got a comfort level in the offense.
Joe will add that Freeman is loaded with elite talent on his offensive line and at skill positions.
No more excuses.
August 11th, 2013 at 1:20 am
We will soon find out if Dominik and Schiano are just blowing smoke to try to boost Freeman’s confidence or that he has finally got his head straightend out. Either way, I’m ready for the real football to begin. If Freeman has it under controle we will have a good season. If not, I look for the powers that be to stop the bleeding quickly. Lets go Bucs and Freeman “time to man up”, you can do it!
August 11th, 2013 at 2:06 am
the most important thing for him to do is to take care of the football. he needs to get those interceptions back down to the single digits. pick your spots and then let the running game and defense do their thing. after that just have some fun and play loose out there.
August 11th, 2013 at 2:08 am
and if you have to run, fuk what the coaches say and run!
August 11th, 2013 at 2:12 am
Personally, I don’t think Josh made any excuses. He did pretty good considering the lack of support he had in 4 1/2 seasons.
But I think there were extenuating circumstances that held this team back. Like, lack of talent. They couldn’t stop the run in 2011, They couldn’t stop the pass in 2012. So many injuries to key players etc.etc. I don’t call those excuses, they are more like fact.
August 11th, 2013 at 2:18 am
Freeman just doesn’t have that special something to make him more than average. And that’s what he is in comparison ot the rest of the league. IT’s been a long time since an average or worse QB won a Super Bowl. Dilfer was the last one, I think.
August 11th, 2013 at 2:36 am
Well Buc’n Junkie what do ya think? This article is sure to bring out more than a few Buc morons. I better watch myself and be careful. I don’t want to ruffle any feathers. You know the sensitive types. Can’t wait for the sun to rise and wake up to read all the foolish rantings this will bring. I think it’s best I just read the articles for awhile and not click the comment button. Hell it’s already started this early in the morning we have one already.
August 11th, 2013 at 2:48 am
It’s just a wait and see now, but he’s beget than avg he was in the top 10 in all categories except comp % but we also went deep more than most so take it for weekday you want. W3 will know by the end of the year but if it ain’t free they Beyer draft another because it aint glennon either.
August 11th, 2013 at 3:13 am
By all preseason long he means 2 drives?
August 11th, 2013 at 3:44 am
Dont go away Buc1987. As long as you’re not being so sensitive to those voicing opinions who disagree with yours, then you might just pull yourself up out of that category of the “sensitive types”. LOL, dude you’re a trip.
August 11th, 2013 at 3:48 am
Bottom line, Freeman knows he’s being pushed. Granted Glennon needs some time. But he’s a quick study! And I do LOVE that his first pass in the NFL went for a huge gain.
I think we’ll see Freeman as our main QB and Glennon as a quality 2nd. Its needed. Rock star and Schiano picked well with that 3rd.
August 11th, 2013 at 7:01 am
If a guy is good you don’t have to search for the reasons why.
Everyone can see it. On the field on Sundays, in the big games, in the playoffs.
Not in camp or preseason where the list of guys who look good is real long. “Why not Minot” used to shine then.
August 11th, 2013 at 7:45 am
No more excuses. That should be the motto this year. It is time to win.
August 11th, 2013 at 8:01 am
Has anyone seen some of the elite QB stats from last season ?? Freeman had more TDs than Eli and Flacco and only a couple more picks, I was stunned. If not for his 2 game slide his #s would have been arguably better. Those 2 qbs have had great teams, this is Joshs 1st competitive team,
August 11th, 2013 at 8:01 am
Wasn’t he picked off twice in practice Saturday?
Not that I’m looking for reasons to dislike him, because I’m pretty certain he’ll be fine.
I just find it ironic.
August 11th, 2013 at 8:04 am
We have faith in Freeman because of the off season & preseason? WTF?
Freeman’s performance against the Ravens didn’t boost MY confidence.
Let’s see a pass longer than 30 yards being attempted and MADE next week ok?
How about a completion % of 60% or more ok?
THEN I’d feel comfortable about the 2013 season.
It’s pretty pathetic when you have to consult yourself saying that Freeman isn’t as bad as Trent Dilfer…
August 11th, 2013 at 8:04 am
@jvato24
Sometimes I wonder if those 8 picks in those two games were spread out over the season whether people would be making such a fuss.
Because when I look at the current franchise guys, he’s in the same ballpark on yards, picks and TDs. His completion percentage is where he suffers a little, but then it’s also better than a couple name guys.
August 11th, 2013 at 8:06 am
jvato,
I hope you’re not saying that you’d take Freeman over Flakko and Eli because if that’s you thinking God help us. Fantasy football is cool but in the NFL it takes WINS to get you playing in January, not stats.
August 11th, 2013 at 8:11 am
jvato you can pull all the stats you want the only stat I care about is this: WINS.
As for the INTS what concerns me more is Freeman’s inability to inspire his teammates to play at or above their levels. When Tebow was with Denver his team mates didn’t dwell on how bad Tebow threw the ball. What did they say, “if Tim can get us to the 4th quarter and we’re within 3 points we’re gonna win.”
Tebow, Brady, Manning, Brees, etc., instill CONFIDENCE in their team members. Last year Josh was pretending to channel Michael Jackson during their infamous losing streak.
THAT is the difference between a contender and pretender.
At least this year we’ve got Glennon standing in the wings rather than Orlovsky.
August 11th, 2013 at 8:12 am
3 things for Freeman to get his big deal. #1 Show poise and control of Offense, Schiano always glows over qbs with command. #2 Increase completion %, #3 Win a playoff game. QBs are defined by playoff performance, Romo always has great #s but struggles in big games and playoffs which strips his elite status.
August 11th, 2013 at 8:26 am
jvato you’re right – Freeman has to do all 3 (three) things.
I hope and pray that he does
August 11th, 2013 at 8:29 am
Freeman = Average … No amount of talk will change that.
Well played @Eric.
August 11th, 2013 at 8:29 am
Wins in the NFL require DEFENSE! Through out history average & below average QB’s have been able to win Super Bowls because of D’s. Only Brady, Peyton Manning, and Brees have been able to win consistently without them. Even Rogers needs a Defense. Brees had the exact same 7-9 record w/o a good D last year. The only question this year will be do we win 28-24 or do we lose 31-28.
August 11th, 2013 at 8:43 am
Mr Lucky Says:
“How about a completion % of 60% or more ok?”
I am 100% a Josh Freeman supporter. But I’m also willing to admit the man has faults.
I feel completion percentage is the least important of them. Last year was the first time he was below 60% since his rookie year. Therefore there is no reason to think he cannot easily get above it again.
Eli Manning didn’t break 60% even once in his first 4 years in the league. Josh has done it twice.
But there are other areas of concern. Here’s what I would like to see this year from Josh:
a) a 4000+ yard season. He did it last year. Continuity would be great in this area. I would really love to see him have 5000 yards at least once, but I recognize the unlikeliness of it.
b) Fewer fumbles. Josh has never had a season with less than 8 fumbles. Granted, many were not his fault and in all but one season he lost 3 or less. Part of this is RB and Center exchanges, which he got the stat for but may not have been his fault. So I would like to see QB exchanges improve. Some were results of sacks or hits. This he must improve security on.
c) On Interceptions, he really isn’t that bad. He had the same number as Stafford at 17. That’s only 2 more than Eli Manning. Bret Favre had 17 or more picks 9 times in his career, and many of them were 20+ picks.
d) Accuracy. I’m not talking about completion percentage. Receivers dropping catchable passes affects completion percentage. I’m talking about the things we see while watching the games. I want to drop the ball in the right place on long passes, and I want to see more on target passes in the short game.
e) Running the ball. I don’t want him to go hog wild, but I think adding the threat in each game will just create something else for defenses to worry about. I don’t want him injured. But if he can get a few 1st downs by running the ball…so be it. Play action seems a good thing for him as well.
So those are the things I would LIKE to see. But I’m not saying I MUST see them.
Frankly, if Freeman does poorly and Glennon is made starter (which I do not believe will happen at all), we would enter a new rebuilding phase, because Glennon will take years to improve to starting caliber. He just isn’t that good yet.
August 11th, 2013 at 9:13 am
Of course no more excuses is the motto this year, but our priority shouldn’t be worrying about Freeman. Our weakest link right now is the pass rush. We should be worrying about that horrific pass rush we got. At least we got Cox out there teaching these guys. My fear is we won’t have a pass rush unless Lavonte blitzes every friggin passing down, which would be fine by me
August 11th, 2013 at 9:19 am
He’s still got that habit of running over to the badly overthrown WR, waving his mouthpiece looking a bit lost. Uggh.
Color my uninspired.
Joe, you talked of Free throwing darts during practice recently, but you didn’t mention these were 7/7 or 11/11 drills while donning the green jersey.
In his 56 games as a starter, he still misses the drive killing easy throws.
August 11th, 2013 at 9:21 am
Can’t help but think the Buc’s already have his contract figured out. Superbowl win $20M per, a couple playoff win’s 15-20M per, a playoff win 15M per, lossing first playoff game 10-15M per, a good season but miss the playoff’s 10M per and a bad season and missing the playoff’s no contract.
August 11th, 2013 at 9:31 am
Joe,
It’s easier to be smart with the football and able to read through 4 progressions when bullets aren’t flying in practice. We’ll see if he can handle it come game time because that’s when Josh really seems to be rattled.
August 11th, 2013 at 9:44 am
Joe, that “NoExcusesTour.com ad at the top of the page should go to buccaneers.com website
August 11th, 2013 at 9:46 am
Just win baby!
Freeman needs to put it all together, and take the Bucs to the playoffs this year.
If he drops off the face of the earth for multiple games at a time, just like the last two years, then throw in the rook.
I hope Freeman shines this year, and takes us to the playoffs, and I am officially out of patience.
More results, less excuses, and lets whoop some ass this year.
August 11th, 2013 at 9:46 am
It’s also bad when people point out that Freeman’s stats broke franchise records. LOL . We never had a complete franchise QB, if ever nor long term starter lasting 4 years? Also take into effect this is a passing league now. QB stats are more inflated compared to the past.
August 11th, 2013 at 9:47 am
I just don’t get the negativity for JF5, we’ve seen him be elite in 2010 and last year he had a stretch where he was the best QB in the entire league. Of all people to say it, Keyshawn put it best yesterday, JF5 is coming off his first season of coaching.
Besides if JF5 were to falter do you realize how screwed we are? This team is built to win now. Glennon is years away from being ready and next offseason guess who the best vet QB on the market will be? Yep, it’s JF5. Raheem might have been a terrible HC but he was always right about one thing: it’s all about #5.
We all better pray he’s the QB this franchise needs him to be
August 11th, 2013 at 9:48 am
Chris,
You are right, as Andy Dalton had a similar season (less turnovers), and went to the playoffs for the second year in a row.
Now or never for Freeman.
Is he a “franchise” QB or “Rex Grossman”?
August 11th, 2013 at 9:53 am
[…] The ongoing debate from the national media whether the Bucs like quarterback Josh Freeman or not is quite obnoxious. In the latest installment of the Bucs showing support — or not — for Freeman comes courtesy of Buccaneers general manager Mark Dominik via JoeBucsFan.com. […]
August 11th, 2013 at 9:58 am
Ian,
You right, I have negative feelings towards JF5. I am not sure if it is a byproduct of our overall team sucking ass over the last 5 years (aside from Raheem’s 10 win season), or the fact that despite all of Freeman’s physical gifts he has failed to perform consistently?
Our defense sucked, Dom made some bad moves, and we had about 40% of a salary cap being exercised. Yet, Freeman won us 10 games in 2010.
I feel like 2010 was a mirage. We have had a head coaching change, offensive coordinator change, and I hope we don’t need a QB/GM change.
Schiano has this team on the right path, it is up for Freeman to excel in the role we NEED from him CONSISTENTLY.
August 11th, 2013 at 9:58 am
@Ian_620wdae
Its not all about JFro. otherwise the bucs would not have to build a team that is able to drag the QB and D-line to their first playoff game. We do not have a QB that makes everyone better. What we have is a team that is trying to make the Qb better. Could it be to youth still, maybe. But 5th year in the league is ususally a pretty good gauge of what you are. Unless Jfro is an extremely late bloomer, we will know exactly what kind of QB he is.
Also a lot of Rookie Qb’s have made it to 1 playoff game lately.
August 11th, 2013 at 10:02 am
76Buc76,
If Freeman doesn’t take us to the playoffs, then we are better served to pay Glennon 800k per, and allocate the 11 million in cap relief towards the D-Line.
Freeman isn’t getting PAID unless he EARNS it.
August 11th, 2013 at 10:08 am
Realist,
I agree with you. Why wait for Freeman any longer to “arrive”? Rookies are coming into the league and excelling.
No one here can tell me that the Washington Redskins should’ve beat us at home last year, and made the playoffs. Ridiculous, as our former GM, HC/their DB coach came back to town and beat our ass.
To me, that is on Freeman, as he only played one half of football.
Either Freeman is going to get it together this year, take this team to the playoffs, or he can step aside and take his coin flip show elsewhere. It really is that simple.
August 11th, 2013 at 10:15 am
Buc1987,
Your inability to accept other “fan” opinions, and to dismiss them, is complete idiocy on your part.
I am sorry your QB comes to question, but he does.
12 teams make the playoffs each year, and Freeman needs to take his play to the top 6 of the NFC, period.
I like how you call others “morons” because they don’t share your opinion. You look absolutely stupid by showing your level of ignorance towards other opinions.
You know, all that is going on in your tiny little head, isn’t all that is going on in the world.
August 11th, 2013 at 10:20 am
@Stevek,
“If Freeman doesn’t take us to the playoffs, then we are better served to pay Glennon 800k per, and allocate the 11 million in cap relief towards the D-Line”
I support Free but I agree 100% with that statement.
August 11th, 2013 at 10:27 am
I 100% Freeman has to take the next step to consistency but to think we can coach up Glennon in an offseason and/or draft a QB next year that will perform like Luck, RG3 or Wilson is a once in a generation type of draft.
The NFC is too tough to expect our defenese and running game alone to carry this team to the playoffs. We will need elite play from the QB position, is JF5 that guy? I think he can be but the reality is that if he isnt this franchise is starting over from scratch which means Dom and Schiano will probably not be here in 2017 when the next QB is ready and we have this argument all over again.
JF5 will only be 29 in 2017 (think about that for a second)
August 11th, 2013 at 11:08 am
i don’t care if he is 21 or 45 in 2017. HOW MANY PLAYOFF GAMES!!!
August 11th, 2013 at 11:08 am
^^^^^ @Ian
You’re wasting your time if you think you can make these guys think. They are only capable of one task at a time. Thinking and deciding what’s good for the team is too taxing to their limited ability to reason.
August 11th, 2013 at 11:18 am
If a guy is good you don’t have to search for the reasons why.
Everyone can see it. On the field on Sundays, in the big games, in the playoffs.
Not in camp or preseason where the list of guys who look good is real long. “Why not Minot” used to shine then.
——————————————————————-
^^ I agree completely with this statement. This sums up everything you need to know about Freeman’s career so far. It’s sad that practice is the only thing that instill’s confidence in a player. After 4 years you would think they’d have a little more to be confident about.
The fear of not finding someone better is not an acceptable reason to stand pat with what you have if what you have is not good enough. So far Josh is not good enough. Hopefully Josh will make this an easy decision for us one way or another.
August 11th, 2013 at 11:22 am
Buc’nJunkie,
Ok, Einstein, you know “what is good for the team”.
Set your pride down, and your homer card, and try to see the fact that our team/QB has underwhelmed since 2010.
August 11th, 2013 at 11:26 am
Take it easy on Bun’n Junkie. He is clearly one of the only few “informed” fans. He’s so informed that he pretty much wrote off Glennon the second we drafted him. He’s so informed that he doesn’t want Glennon to develop “quickly” simply so he can show us just why Glennon was drafted in the 3rd and why Freeman is so much superior (with his 6 wins a year and late season melt downs).
Lol, I think I rather stay uninformed.
August 11th, 2013 at 11:38 am
@stevek
Try adding up all the facts instead of cherry picking what you only can see. You’re blinded by your own hate that you’re unable to rationalize what’s really best for this team at this time. Before you publicly destroy the guy and feed into the hysteria of other uninformed fans, take a step back and look at the whole situation. Freeman is our only chance to get to the big dance this year. Like Ian said, those rookie QBs that can step in and make an immediate impact are very rare. This team cannot afford to experiment. Otherwise, we’ll just be starting all over again. Personally, I want stability, a foundation to work off of. A QB carousel does not lead to stability.
August 11th, 2013 at 11:41 am
Oh here we go, Junkie vs. Couch round 42
August 11th, 2013 at 11:41 am
If Freeman doesn’t start 6-4 this season this is what I would do:
Bench Freeman
Start Glennon
Sign Kirk Cousins in 2014 to compete with Glennon next year.
Pretty simple but what I’d LIKE to see is the Bucs going 11-5 or 10-6 and making the playoffs. In that case Freeman gets a new contract with base salary based on his play this year and loaded with performance incentives.
Simply put it’s playoffs in 2013 or BUST
August 11th, 2013 at 11:42 am
I have to stop reading is so old hearing you guys complain about a25 yr old kid who hadn’t had any stability in his coaches in the 3 years he has started and still holds or will hold every significant record in the books for the bucs. The guy had to 10 numbers last year and save for 2 games would have had to 5. Let’s have a reality check fellas he is the best qb in the history of the bucs and he is younger than 85% of the qbs in the league. He needs to be more consistent there is no question but the Glennon talk is absolutely ridiculous, Free has played better the last 3 yrs in the league than Glennon has the last 3 yrs in college.
August 11th, 2013 at 11:43 am
I though Josh Freeman looked good last January – on the cover of SI; not on the gridiron
August 11th, 2013 at 11:44 am
we want the super bowl ,,, NO!T PLAY OF … MR IAN ……
August 11th, 2013 at 11:45 am
@Buc’n Junk
If rookie QB’s stepping into the team and making an immediate impact is so rare why did three (3) do it last year?
August 11th, 2013 at 11:46 am
No one is saying to start Glennon over Freeman on week 1; I’m not.
However by week 8 if the Bucs aren’t in the green and the offense sucks then it’s time for a LONG-TERM change.
August 11th, 2013 at 11:50 am
ya is sign kirk cousin be good …..
August 11th, 2013 at 11:51 am
^^^ I concur
August 11th, 2013 at 11:51 am
with Mr. Lucky ^^
August 11th, 2013 at 11:53 am
Great Freeman piece: http://nfl.si.com/2013/08/07/fixing-the-qbs-josh-freeman-and-the-lag-between-potential-and-greatness/?sct=hp_wr_a2&eref=sihp&sct=nfl_bf4_a8
Now or never, bring on the “carousel”. Round and round we go, until we find a “franchise QB”.
Really hope Freeman can be our guy, 2013 is a good time to make the playoffs.
August 11th, 2013 at 12:00 pm
@ Buc’n Junkie…Freeman could light up the pre-season with his limited time. They will still say it’s only preseason, and let’s see him to do it on a consistent basis in the regular season. Pretty much any and every pass Freeman throws in the preseason is going to be graded by the morons. Right now you, me and a few others are swimming upstream in a tsumani of bs. I’m at the point of why bother anymore? I think it’s just easier to read the morons comments, take them in stride, not comment back and move along. Pretty much every point you and I or others make. Is going to be called out as homerism, or blind faith. There really is no point anymore is there? We all have presented our case over and over again. Getting the same results. By mid-season the morons will see that we are right, Schiano’s right and so is Dom.
August 11th, 2013 at 12:01 pm
I’ll say again that I just want the Bucs to win no matter who the QB is but the fact remains that JF5 gives this team the best chance at winning now and in the short term.
If JF5 throws 20+ ints, his six flags consistency costs us multiple wins and we miss the playoffs then the right call is to replace him. Now who do you replace JF5 with? Glennon gets a shot but the other play will cost a 1st RD pick by either drafting another QB or we give it up for Cousins/Mallett.
I personally like Mallett, only reason he fell to the 3rd RD was his attitude coming out of Arkansas. He has the size and physical tools to excel and spending the past three years learning behind Brady couldn’t hurt. IMHO this is the 2014 plan if JF5 struggles. I don’t see a 1 year franchise tag scenario as it will kill the salary cap and JF5 only signs a long term deal as no matter what he does here in 2013, on the open market somebody will over pay for a 25 year starting QB with perceived untapped potential.
All in all for JF5 in Tampa Bay its 2013 or bust, 2nd year in Sully’s system, two legit game changing WR’s, an elite RB and on paper a top 5 O-Line. No more excuses, just go out there be elite and prove all his doubters wrong.
August 11th, 2013 at 12:02 pm
Joe I guess your site is where all the immature so called buc fans argue like kids.
All the crap that I read from these fans comes close to being disrespectful.
August 11th, 2013 at 12:12 pm
Wow, that was a great article SteveK, thanks! I have to agree with all of it, Josh has to get better. period. But still, until someone steps up and clearly shows that they have total command of this offense, Josh is our best bet. Experimenting with a rookie this season with the supporting cast they have now could spell disaster and cost everyone their jobs. The teams who started rookies last year didn’t have an incumbent QB that was worth a damn. They were able to experiment with a rookie, because they didn’t have a viable option at the time. We do, and the Coach and Dominik agree.
August 11th, 2013 at 12:13 pm
Freeman could light up the pre-season with his limited time. They will still say it’s only preseason, and let’s see him to do it on a consistent basis in the regular season.
—————————————————————-
You mean where it actually counts and where he has not been able to get it done yet? Why yes…. I think that is a very fair statement. Lol
August 11th, 2013 at 12:27 pm
Sacbucs just dont see to many of yall saying stuff like ya say face to face. That aint tuff guy talk thats reality. Kinda cowardly if you ask me.
I love my bucs but with fans like this routing on the side im on I would go steve smith on you corners.
Just cuz you got season tickets( lucky fuk) or stay next door to the stadium dont make your opinion the bible b!tches.
In my post last year I said we should get hillis and one of you maggots started talking crap now all yall riding his jock strap. I think he’s our second coming of the A train.
You homers good for running somebody out of town. You need to STFU and sit your fat out of shape ass down look in the mirror and write your opinion on JBF about that!
August 11th, 2013 at 12:45 pm
Kinda Cowardly 1987/COUCH/HA-50/ETC.
FIRST GAME I COME TO IN TAMPA MEET ME IN THE PARKING LOT..So we can do some oklahoma drills. Suckers! Then we can separate the men from the mice!
No pads or helmets! I m leaving my meds and hgh at home so your safe.
August 11th, 2013 at 12:48 pm
When Keyshawn said who you gonna get if you let #5 go. He started to mention guys like Bridgewater and such. Never mentioned Glennon for a reason. I think if MY Bucs would have never drafted Glennon, 3/4’s of this bs would not occur on JBF daily.
August 11th, 2013 at 12:58 pm
@SacBucs…I’m at the point of why bother anymore?
You will see me blog on here like 90% less than I have been, because there really is no point to any of this. Meaning I get some of what your saying. On the other hand this is what blogging is all about I guess. People are going to get into arguments and such. There really is no need for physical confrontation over it. It’s all just a bunch of BS. 1/2 the time I just laugh it all off. Hell if you think this is bad and warrants physical confrontation, you should have been in the CNN blog after the Zimmerman verdict.
Take note that I am replying to you, so I don’t consider you one of the morons.
August 11th, 2013 at 1:04 pm
Ian_620WDAE Says:
August 11th, 2013 at 9:47 am
I just don’t get the negativity for JF5, we’ve seen him be elite in 2010 and last year he had a stretch where he was the best QB in the entire league. Of all people to say it, Keyshawn put it best yesterday, JF5 is coming off his first season of coaching.
Besides if JF5 were to falter do you realize how screwed we are? This team is built to win now. Glennon is years away from being ready and next offseason guess who the best vet QB on the market will be? Yep, it’s JF5. Raheem might have been a terrible HC but he was always right about one thing: it’s all about #5.
We all better pray he’s the QB this franchise needs him to be
@Ian Beckles,
Dude, you could not be more wrong about Mike Glennon being “Years” away. This kid has the confidence and poise in the pocket and is mentally smarter than Josh Freeman coming out of college.
Josh looks great in practice, but when bullets fly, you rattle him early, he’s rattled the entire game, throwing off his back foot too often and his mechanics break down. He had that 6 game stretch. 5 of those teams were under .500 and not in contention for the playoffs. In those six games, 63% of his productivity in terms of Stats and TDs were produced in those games. The first 4 games he was meh, below average. 6 games of brilliance, 6 games of bottom tier QB. You cannot tell me you feel confident in Josh when everytime he steps on the field, you don’t know what you are going to get?
You can already see on a few throws this pre-season. The crossing routes? They cannot be behind WRs. That’s only telling me he’s continuing his lack of timing and is hesitating half a second to a second late on throws.
And you cannot keep pointing back to 2010. Josh made a lot of plays with his feet. But he doesn’t do that. Why? Because you cannot continue to play that style of football year after year. He hasn’t developed into a pocket passer. He doesn’t throw WRs open. I heard Troy Aikman continuosly point out he fails to see the entire field.
I’m rooting for Josh. I really hope he puts it together. because the Bucs will go far. But I just don’t see him breaking his ways. I’m paying a lot more attention to Glennon’s development this pre-season because after week 4, could be a BIG DECISION on Schiano’s part. It’s the bye week and if Freeman is struggling and the teams isn’t above .500, I see a move being made.
August 11th, 2013 at 2:21 pm
^^^ yeah at least you’re consistent. You keep giving that same prediction. It’s a good thing that Josh knows you got his back. I mean, with you rooting for him and all, is likened to the saying “keep your enemies close.” My question is this, as the weeks mount up before the bye and Josh has entrenched himself into the starting role will you pick up the pace of your attack to try to ensure your prediction comes to true? I mean let’s face it, your credibility is at stake. But of course you could always change your screen name. lol
August 11th, 2013 at 2:41 pm
The Bucs had a better offense than half of all the playoff teams in 2012. The Bucs had a worse defense than EVERY playoff team. You do the math.
August 11th, 2013 at 3:05 pm
Joe didn’t mean “no more excuses” as in Josh was making the excuses lol
He meant no more excuses as in everyone else that’s constantly making excuses for him.
😉
I concur
August 11th, 2013 at 3:09 pm
@Joe
could you please write a story of something positive for JFro-6pak. The JFro-ites are going crazy with all these ” negative ” stories. Just write something that according to a rumor that Jfro was able to pass the Ham and mash potatoes with skipping them on the ground last night. That should put some of the sheep at ease.
August 11th, 2013 at 3:11 pm
And the problem is they weren’t “spread out”
THAT is the problem they come in spurts and they are NEVER spread out lol.
August 11th, 2013 at 3:13 pm
Only six quarterbacks threw more touchdowns than Freeman. Not sure why THAT needs an excuse.
This game is about winning, right? How do you win games? Score more points than the other team. Simple concept, right? I guess Freeman needs to outscore EVERY QB to be respected instead of just most of them.
August 11th, 2013 at 3:21 pm
But are we winning?
August 11th, 2013 at 3:24 pm
And nope he doesn’t need to outscore every QB, he needs to minimize the mistakes.
August 11th, 2013 at 3:25 pm
WCBF,
Over the last two years Freeman has thrown the most INTs in the game, with 39. So, he has the 7th most TDs last year, and the most INTs of ANYONE the past two years.
What about the 10 fumbles last year, and the extraordinary amount of passes that get batted down?
Playoffs, consistent execution and the most competitive facilitator of the offense. Freeman has first crack, but he still has lots to prove.
August 11th, 2013 at 3:40 pm
@stevek
Not sure why you love to lump 2011 in every time you talk about interceptions. Oh yeah, because its convenient. Who cares how many picks he threw in 2011? It is the ultimate twisting of stats every time you say it. Stop living in the past.
And please quit with the “10 fumbles” he only lost two of them. Just another case of you exaggerating the hell out of what really happened.
@PRBucFan
You apparently missed the point. How do you win games? Seriously, by definition, what does it take to win a game in the most general sense?
Points.
As in, more than the other team.
Now if 12 teams make the playoffs every year and Freeman threw more touchdowns (points) than all but six quarterbacks, why didn’t we win more games? Please, answer me that.
Freeman needs to improve in 2013 but you all act as if Freeman was just as much to blame in nine losses as the defense when it wasn’t even close. Three games we lost by two points exactly. Now tell me, is that because of the guy that threw the sixth most touchdowns or the unit that ranked second worst in a hundred years of football?
August 11th, 2013 at 3:41 pm
*seventh most touchdowns
August 11th, 2013 at 3:43 pm
So 27 TD’s and 4000+ yds is ‘average’ now huh? OoooKkkkkkkk.
August 11th, 2013 at 3:46 pm
^^ Yup, people act like 27 TDs is easy. As if Freeman is not the first Buccaneer to do it. As if it wasn’t the case that only six quarterbacks managed to throw more in 2012.
August 11th, 2013 at 3:50 pm
Then they just say “blah, blah, blah. . . passing league . . . blah, blah, blah” but in this “passing league” Freeman was top ten in touchdowns. If anything, that is more impressive than it would have been ten years ago as there is way more explosive offenses in the league now. (Making it a more difficult feat to rank so high in TDs.)
August 11th, 2013 at 3:54 pm
I was pointing out that apparently that is not the case because all those “points” your referencing have not led to W’s.
If that’s the case than something else must be a major factor in getting the W’s yes?
That is minimizing mistakes, minimizing turnovers, whether by fumble or by interception, etc..
So no, your insinuation is false. If you score a ton of points but make a ton of mistakes to go along with them your not really making any progress at all.
August 11th, 2013 at 4:01 pm
Lol, okay.
Seventh most touchdowns coupled with the second worst defense in a century of football (by only fourteen yards) and you think Freeman’s mistakes are why we didn’t win more games? (Drew Brees threw more picks by the way, and I don’t think you are stupid enough to believe he is the reason the Saints went 7-9.)
Very basic concept here. Score points and stop the other team from scoring points. The most simplistic but accurate guide to winning football games. We only did one of those last year.
Winning is a collaborative effort by the TEAM. If a part of your team is the second worst at ANYTHING, EVER, then that is not a team effort. We didn’t deserve to win with that defense just as the Saints didn’t with their defense.
August 11th, 2013 at 4:18 pm
JF5 is far from the biggest issue this team will have in 2013. Pass rush, health of Revis/Nicks/Joseph and the lack of depth are what will determine the fate of the Buccaneers this season.
And as for a previois comment saying it wont take Glennon a few years to become a credible starting QB, how do you know? Glennon has yet to play a regular season NFL game and history tells us it takes years to properly develop a starting QB (exceptions like Marino, Luck, RGIII, etc) so with that said be careful what you wish for because you just might get it.
August 11th, 2013 at 4:19 pm
Every quarterback’s goal is to “reduce turnovers” but when you are down by 10 points after one quarter and 24 at the half, you start taking chances. (Saints game.)
This, naturally, leads to a higher rate of turnovers. When you are losing, you throw the ball more. The more you throw the ball, the higher the chance of a turnover. (Basic concepts here.)
I would rather have a quarterback do everything he can to win try and win the game rather than just be a safe “captain checkdown” when the going gets tough just so whiny fans won’t complain about his stats at the end of the year.
Freeman took care of the ball in all but those two games in 2014. 14 games with a combined 9 interceptions. That is taking care of the ball if you ask me. Yes he shouldn’t have back to back terrible outings (8 ints) like that but the fact remains that in 14 games he only had 9 interceptions. I would rather have that than to spread out the turnovers throughout the season.
August 11th, 2013 at 4:19 pm
WestCoastBucsFan Says:
August 11th, 2013 at 2:41 pm
The Bucs had a better offense than half of all the playoff teams in 2012. The Bucs had a worse defense than EVERY playoff team. You do the math.
Our offense struggled in the passing game against these playoff teams. Josh has never won a big game. And to be honest, no the season enders against NO in 2010 and ATL in 2012 do not count. New Orleans took Brees out in the 3rd qtr and Atlanta: Well, he didn’;t play very well, plus the Falcons locked up the #1 seed.
August 11th, 2013 at 4:19 pm
@Ian_620WDAE
AMEN!
August 11th, 2013 at 4:22 pm
@chris
Everything you said also applies to the defense. 32nd run D in 2011. 32nd pass D in 2012. I am sorry but it would be very difficult for even Peyton Manning himself to over come that.
August 11th, 2013 at 4:24 pm
And as for our offense “struggling” against playoff teams? Well, duh. That is what makes them playoff teams. Show me a team who has better numbers against playoff teams than non-playoff teams.
August 11th, 2013 at 4:26 pm
While I am at it, if the last Falcons game was really that meaningless then Ryan would have been pulled much earlier. Why risk all of your players like that for a “meaningless” game? They were obviously trying win that game were denied.
August 11th, 2013 at 4:30 pm
Again, my point still stands.
I’m not discussing the defense and it’s issues right now.
August 11th, 2013 at 4:32 pm
Very basic concept here and often the NUMBER ONE goal in a game
Win the TO battle, win the game
August 11th, 2013 at 4:39 pm
For the sake of all of us, and all our sanity, Let’s hope, that at the end of the day, we end up with the best 53 players. Even if it means Dominik has to go trolling for FA’s after the cut down frenzy. There will be some good players released that can help with depth if were not satisfied with what we have already. Remember, we have tough decisions to make but so do all teams. There will be some decent players available. Hopefully our scouting dept. have their “toes on the line”.
August 11th, 2013 at 4:43 pm
Very difficult to outscore your opponent when the defense is doing everything it can to ensure the team loses.
Wrong.
The number one goal in the game is outscore the opponent, by any means necessary. If Freeman throws twelve interceptions in a game but we win, who cares? We won.
Freeman had seven games with zero interceptions. Three of those zero interception games were lost. Now that you don’t have Freeman’s turnovers to blame, what went wrong in these games?
He had three more losses in games that he only threw one interception. What happened in these games?
(I’m waiting.)
If you are discussing Freeman’s ability to “win” then you are discussing the team and, by default, also the defense.
August 11th, 2013 at 4:58 pm
“I was pointing out that apparently that is not the case because all those “points” your referencing have not led to W’s.
If that’s the case than something else must be a major factor in getting the W’s yes?
That is minimizing mistakes, minimizing turnovers, whether by fumble or by interception, etc..
So no, your insinuation is false. If you score a ton of points but make a ton of mistakes to go along with them your not really making any progress at all.”
I’m not one to repeat the same things over and over in different ways so I’ll just repost the point I’m making 😉
And no, again, I’m not discussing the defense and it’s issues right now. I’m discussing your theory that Freeman’s godly 27 TDs somehow erases the fact that he’s also been a TO machine. Lots of TD + Lots of TO’s = No Progress At All.
August 11th, 2013 at 5:00 pm
You just conveniently ignored the important question in my post.
Zero interceptions in seven games. Three of those were losses. Three more losses came from one interception games. Why did we lose these six games? (He only lost two fumbles all year so it ain’t that.)
I would really like to know.
August 11th, 2013 at 5:07 pm
And you can bet that if he doesn’t minimize the TO’s he won’t be in Pewter and Red much longer.
Because the probability of getting the W is greatly reduced when you lose the TO battle. That’s a fact.
Sure he may win a few that way but eventually it will catch up to him, like it has been and unlike some fans the FO believes in holding players accountable and responsible. I for one am thankful for that. We shall see after this season if he’s improved in that area at all. Let the chips fall where they may.
August 11th, 2013 at 5:09 pm
Your comment that he was “a TO machine” is false.
He was a “turnover machine” in just two games.
He threw ZERO interceptions in seven games. Five more games with only one interception. His 2012 stats are skewed by two bad games.
Please, show me all the games where turnovers lost it for us. (They don’t exist in 2012.) You are going off his season total and his bad games pre-2012.
August 11th, 2013 at 5:10 pm
^^Other than the two 4 INT games, obviously.
August 11th, 2013 at 5:13 pm
I am sorry but you are just flat out wrong about him being a “TO Machine”. That term literally applies to only two of the sixteen games in 2012.
You are resorting to making stuff up to cover for the wretched defense.
August 11th, 2013 at 5:15 pm
WCBF,
Freeman’s ability to perform consistently is the QUESTION.
Freeman has the biggest impact/non-impact each week for the Bucs.
August 11th, 2013 at 5:18 pm
We need a QB with the ability to sustain consistent offensive performances: points, time of possession while minimizing three and outs.
It is about right now, what will Freeman do. He is in his age 25 season, with 56 starts under his belt. It is nut cutting time in these parts. Playoffs, or we may need to try an alternative at QB. Glennon, Mallet, Bridgewater, and on down the list.
August 11th, 2013 at 5:19 pm
You have a knack for pulling out the “exceptions to the rule” often and trying to make a point with them as if they are the norm. That’s not the case nor is it worth trying to address.
P.S. There are more ways for a QB to turn the ball over than just interceptions.
Alas I have work to do, I’d love to sit here and beat the same drum with you all day but I cannot. Be back later today, it’s been fun as usual WCBF. Ttyl.
August 11th, 2013 at 5:23 pm
Only a couple more weeks to use the defense as a crutch for Freeman’s performances from here on out.
August 11th, 2013 at 5:25 pm
^^^ If I may add in your defense he hardly ever fumbles unlike some of the “elites” have been known to do. Almost all Josh’s turnovers are INT’s. Add up all his INT’s with all fumbles and compare him to the elite class, and I bet he’s right there with all of them and maybe even better than some.
August 11th, 2013 at 5:36 pm
Buc’n Junkie Says:
August 11th, 2013 at 2:21 pm
^^^ yeah at least you’re consistent. You keep giving that same prediction. It’s a good thing that Josh knows you got his back. I mean, with you rooting for him and all, is likened to the saying “keep your enemies close.” My question is this, as the weeks mount up before the bye and Josh has entrenched himself into the starting role will you pick up the pace of your attack to try to ensure your prediction comes to true? I mean let’s face it, your credibility is at stake. But of course you could always change your screen name. lol
It’s not the prediction I’m making that it will definately happen. I’m saying is, if we lose to New England and New Orleans, and we squeek by or lose to Arizona or NY JETS, and Josh is struggling, don’t be surprised to see a move made.
Now should we beat the Jets? Yes. We should. But we also should have smoked a terrible Eagles team last year and Josh played horrendous against them.
As a buc fan, I’m not taking any game lightly. I’m 100% behind Josh Freeman playing well. I want him to play well. But I’m also giving my honest opinion of what I’ve seen.
August 11th, 2013 at 5:37 pm
sweet baby jesus can the season start already lol
August 11th, 2013 at 5:45 pm
What 7 games are you talking about?
The atlanta game where Josh didn’t throw any INTs, but He missed guys wide open several plays, 2 that would have been easy TDs. ? Also didn’t throw a TD.
Phildadelphia? I counted half a dozen dropped INTs that game. And his 1st TD he threw, was after a botched punt return by Phi at their own 3 yardline.
I’;ll give him this: That entire game, Josh had one good Drive: The one that ended in a TD pass to Jackson. He completed 40% of his throws and couldnt sustain a drive.
I’ll give you my breakdown, AGAIN of how Josh is season went:
first 4 Games:
– Below average. Solid against carolina. Solid against NYG. One of the worst QB Performances I’ve seen ever against Dallas. A roller coaster game against Washington where he was horrendous all the way up until the end of the 3rd quarter.
Next 6 games: Looked like a franchise QB. Looked very good and got very hot, throwing 17 TDs in this stretch to only 3 INTs. However, 5 of these teams had records below .500 and were not playoff teams.
Final 6: Terrible. Everything went down hill until he capped off an average performance against hte falcons. Before the final 6 games, Tampa had a top 4 offense, they finished 9th. That final 6 game stretch, dropped them 5 spots, which shows they were a roller coaster.
August 11th, 2013 at 5:50 pm
The fact that people point out that “Freeman was one of only 12 qbs to throw for 4,000 yards and one of 7 guys to throw for 27TDs or more”. That’s good fantasy football numbers. But Guys like Joe Flacco, Ben Roethlisbuerger or Eli Manning don’t put up insane fantasy numbers, yet they have 5 superbowls combined between the 3 of them.
I dont care how many TDs josh throws. It’s about guiding the offense to more points than the opposing team and making critical plays in critical moments of games. Josh and Andrew Luck had similar statistics. I laugh at the comparison because A: Andrew Luck learning a new offense on a 1-15 team from 2011 and was also a rookie. B: He made great throws in big games that sustained drives and didn’t give the ball back to the opposing team.
August 11th, 2013 at 6:02 pm
@Chris
I do agree with you that if they are losing games because of Josh’s poor play, he could be on a short leash. But, the question is, how far will they let him slide before they pull the plug, and go with Glennon? If they are losing games because of Josh’s poor play will they go 3,4,5 consecutive losses before they change. It all depends on how much nerve the Bucs have I guess. One thing I do know is, I won’t be very happy if we lost because of Josh.
August 11th, 2013 at 6:07 pm
“P.S. There are more ways for a QB to turn the ball over than just interceptions.”
Oh, you mean like, fumbles? Oh yes, I am sure all two of them throughout the season made the difference.
17INTs + 2 Fumbles lost = 19 turnovers on the season. Lets take a look at some other QBs, shall we? ( I am only counting fumbles LOST because it isn’t a turnover if we recover it.)
Matt Ryan: 14INTs + 3 Fumbles lost= 17 turnovers.
Joe Flacco: 10INTs + 5 fumbles lost = 15 turnovers.
Phillip Rivers: 15INTs + 7 fumbles lost= 22 turnovers
Andrew Luck: 18 INTs + 6 fumbles lost= 24 turnovers
Aaron Rodgers: 8INTs + 4 fumbles lost= 12 turnovers
Andy Dalton: 16INTs + 4 fumbles lost= 20 turnovers
Peyton Manning: 11INTs + 3 fumbles lost = 14 turnovers
Should I keep going?
Freeman did not commit some ungodly amount of turnovers compared to other quarterbacks. One less than “playoff QB extraordinaire” Andy Dalton. Only two more than Matt Ryan.
Freeman has his issues but constantly turning over the ball is not some huge problem of his. I’m sorry but it just isn’t. Two games show him as a turnover machine. Fourteen others show the opposite.
I am going to go out on a limb and say that the only “exception to the rule” was his two 4INT games.
August 11th, 2013 at 6:08 pm
@Chris
Sadly your opinion means nothing to people who pretty much solely base there opinion on stats. Of course the only stat that matters, Win/losses, means nothing to them as well.
I’m really not sure how anyone can watch Freeman for a whole game and not see how he struggles MIGHTLY for most of the first half only to have to make a come back because of not only the poor defense but his own poor play, which they fail to recognize and solely blame the defense for. But yet they claim to recognize it despite repeatedly laying blame on the defense regardless.
The more comedic part is that they then turn around and say we are the ones excusing the defense and solely blaming Josh. And then call us haters and bad fans. Lol
August 11th, 2013 at 6:11 pm
“It’s about guiding the offense to more points than the opposing team???”
How the hell do you control that when you have the worst pass defense in a century??!?? I’m sorry, but stupid posts agravate the crap out of me. You mean like putting up more points in the Philly game, the Giants game, the Redskins game and the Atlanta game…and then see the pass defense jack the lead off in the closing minute of the game?? Oh yeah, let’s conveniently forget that. We were an 11-5 team with any pass defense at all but instead we are 7-9. NOT FREEMAN’s FAULT. He could have been a heck of a lot better, no doubt about it but he was good enough to win us four more games if not for the horrible pass defense.
August 11th, 2013 at 6:13 pm
@Couch… I don’t call you a hater, I call you stupid. You have to be to ignore the defense in a team sport.
August 11th, 2013 at 6:14 pm
@chris
I am delighted you joined the conversation. Unfortunately, it was not about QB accuracy. PRBucFan called Freeman a “TO machine”. That is what I was disputing here. Not his accuracy in those games, just the turnovers.
AND, several DBs drop INTs all the time. Happens to Drew Brees and I am sure it happens to Mark Sanchez. It doesn’t matter.
Only five? That is funny because when you combine the 32nd ranked pass defense and the number one rush defense, for SOME reason, it comes out to 29th overall. That is how bad the defense was.
Also, I offense must have been quite amazing for them to take a five week vacation and still come in ninth overall. That is actually quite reassuring.
August 11th, 2013 at 6:15 pm
On top of that, Freeman did not struggle early in games last year. We scored first in most of our games last year.
August 11th, 2013 at 6:18 pm
I’m waitng for the long drawn out post now about “I never said the defense didn’t share the blame but elite QB’s overcome the obstacles..blah blah blah”
August 11th, 2013 at 6:20 pm
9th best in first quarter scoring seems to disagree with your assessment. I don’t know how one could “struggle MIGHTLY” for most of the first half while still leading the majority of games at half time.
I am sorry Couch Fan but it seems like you are letting pre-2012 games make generalizations about 2012 that simply weren’t true. Freeman was much improved in the first half over what he showed in previous seasons.
August 11th, 2013 at 6:25 pm
Here, ……tag! ….lol
August 11th, 2013 at 6:31 pm
@Couch… I don’t call you a hater, I call you stupid. You have to be to ignore the defense in a team sport.
—————————————————
See this is exactly what I mean this idiot doesn’t even read posts before spewing garbage. It’s laughable.
August 11th, 2013 at 6:34 pm
@WCBF
Freeman was slightly improved, not much. But he still struggled early in lots of games. Scoring touchdowns doesn’t mean he’s not struggling.
Just about every analyst says the same thing. Only the Freemanites can’t see this.
August 11th, 2013 at 6:39 pm
And he doesnt lead a majority of games. Look at all the halftimes scores from last year and you will see they are trailing in a majority of them.
I’ve already looked up all the halftime scores at the end of the season and I’m not gonna do it again just to prove I’m right. I think it was something like we had 6 or 7 leads and we trailed 9 times, and there was 1 tie at the half.
It’s the samething he’s done his whole career. In his 4th season, he was better but not by much. I swear some of you act like this guy has played perfect for us. You say you recognize he has flaws but every time one is pointed out you are quick to come up with an excuse or some silly stat that seems to imply he has no flaws.
Which is it? Does he have flaws or not? Cuz according to you all, he does but yet you seem not to acknowledge any of them.
August 11th, 2013 at 6:39 pm
Really? If touchdowns doesn’t prove he isn’t struggling than what does?
Please direct me to the nearest article since January 1st, 2013 that talks about Freeman struggling early.
August 11th, 2013 at 6:41 pm
@chris
Once again, I was in a back and forth with PRBucFan when you joined in chris. Our conversation was ONLY about turnovers. You are the one turning it into something else.
August 11th, 2013 at 6:42 pm
And (not talking about you WCBF) when I say this. But some even go as far as to criticize Glennon after his first pre-season game for doing they exact same things Freeman has always done. But excuse Freeman for the samethings.
August 11th, 2013 at 6:44 pm
Couch Fan Says:
August 11th, 2013 at 6:08 pm
@Chris
Sadly your opinion means nothing to people who pretty much solely base there opinion on stats. Of course the only stat that matters, Win/losses, means nothing to them as well.
I’m really not sure how anyone can watch Freeman for a whole game and not see how he struggles MIGHTLY for most of the first half only to have to make a come back because of not only the poor defense but his own poor play, which they fail to recognize and solely blame the defense for. But yet they claim to recognize it despite repeatedly laying blame on the defense regardless.
The more comedic part is that they then turn around and say we are the ones excusing the defense and solely blaming Josh. And then call us haters and bad fans. Lol
I hear ya couch. It’s like talking to a wall. I think Atlanta had a pretty bad defense overall, yet they finished with the leagues best record too. So west’s comparisons of stats mean crap.
I don’t think we can ever get through their head from actually watching film, Freeman played his worse in big games. The chunk of his statistics came in the middle 6 game stretch. The first 4 and final 6 were bad. Very bad.
I like it how west points out that just because some games Josh didn’t throw mulitple picks, that it’s considered a good game? LOL. I mean, he threw 1 INT in dallas. Was that a good game WEST??
Guys:
None of us here are buc haters. We just use pure logic, knowledge, and what we’ve seen. How many of you actually played football to know anything besides reading stats? It;’s not hard to tell Josh has many struggles that show up on the field big time.
August 11th, 2013 at 6:45 pm
Really? If touchdowns doesn’t prove he isn’t struggling than what does?
———————————————
Oh I dont know how about inconsistent play? Lol, it’s not really that hard if you think about it. When you have an offense like we do, its not to difficult to score once in awhile.
August 11th, 2013 at 6:50 pm
August 11th, 2013 at 6:41 pm
@chris
Once again, I was in a back and forth with PRBucFan when you joined in chris. Our conversation was ONLY about turnovers. You are the one turning it into something else.
____________________________________________________________
West,
Listen, I’m not excusing a bad secondary, but when you know your secondary isn’t very good, 3 and outs and Turnovers don’t help do they?
Bucs offense was #1 over those 6 week span. Then in the final 6 games, averaged 18 points per game. So you want stats, that’;s pretty down right awful. And who was the QB during that stretch? As bad as the defense was, the offense didn’t do much to help either. And Josh really struggled.
August 11th, 2013 at 6:53 pm
It absolutely floors me that the defense has ZERO responsibility in our W/L ratio. Every single Freeman supporter can admit his faults but the haters just flat out ignore that defense. Its down right asinine. To think Josh can’t get it done with this better defense ludicrous.
August 11th, 2013 at 6:56 pm
And here it is again. When did I say this was a good game? When did I say ANY of the zero int games were good?
I didn’t.
For the millionth freaking time, the conversation was about turnovers and ONLY TURNOVERS!
And YOU talk about me having a thick skull . . .
August 11th, 2013 at 7:00 pm
@chris
Please, stop, before you comment. Please listen and possibly go back and read. PRBucFan said Freeman was a “TO MACHINE”. This is what I was disputing. Please stop responding with random unrelated information to Freeman’s turnovers.
August 11th, 2013 at 7:06 pm
Well there is my problem. I should have been using LOGIC this whole time. Now I get it. Well thank you for enlightening me.
SMDH
August 11th, 2013 at 7:08 pm
It absolutely floors me that the defense has ZERO responsibility in our W/L ratio. Every single Freeman supporter can admit his faults but the haters just flat out ignore that defense. Its down right asinine. To think Josh can’t get it done with this better defense ludicrous.
————————————————-
All I can do is shake my head and laugh at this nonsense.
Who said the defense had 0 responsibility?
August 11th, 2013 at 7:16 pm
^^ While his comment was a little ridiculous, you say the same thing in reverse about us. That we give Freeman zero blame and the defense all of the blame.
I have said this before, I will say it now, and I will probably say it again later. Freeman had us in enough games that with even a top 25 pass defense we would have, at the very least, a winning record. With ALL of Freeman’s aforementioned “glaring” flaws. We would have had a winning record and possibly been playoff bound.
August 11th, 2013 at 7:19 pm
Ok then tell me this WCBF.
What in your opinion is Freeman’s flaws. Because every single time someone else mentions what they believe his flaw is, you and the freemanites are quick to blame it on anything other than Freeman.
August 11th, 2013 at 7:23 pm
Freeman shouldn’t have so many batted down passes.
Freeman should be able to sustain a productive level of play, consistently for all 4 quarters.
Freeman had some good numbers last year, but he fell apart at the end of the year when we needed him most.
How does Freeman respond in 2013, after having 56 starts? Does he take his game to the next level, a playoff level? Or does he remain an inconsistent performer.
August 11th, 2013 at 7:29 pm
I’ll chime in and say that JF5’s flaws are: lack of accuracy to the flats and intermediate crossing routes, not stepping into throws when facing pressure up the middle, while deep balls are his strength sometimes forces it way too much, not using his feet to buy time in the pocket and/or scramble for a 1st down, spreads the ball around but doesnt always look for his 3rd and 4th options and his biggest flaw IMHO, he’s a slow starter amd usually dpesnt warm up till the 2nd quarter or even worse 2nd half.
Does that cover it?
August 11th, 2013 at 7:35 pm
“I was pointing out that apparently that is not the case because all those “points” your referencing have not led to W’s.
If that’s the case than something else must be a major factor in getting the W’s yes?
That is minimizing mistakes, minimizing turnovers, whether by fumble or by interception, etc..
So no, your insinuation is false. If you score a ton of points but make a ton of mistakes to go along with them your not really making any progress at all.”
I’m not one to repeat the same things over and over in different ways so I’ll just repost the point I’m making
And no, again, I’m not discussing the defense and it’s issues right now. I’m discussing your theory that Freeman’s godly 27 TDs somehow erases “ALL HIS TURNOVERS”. Lots of TD + Lots of TO’s = No Progress At All.”
You see my point does not change whether I called him a “To machine” or whether I change it just say his TO’s. Lol, it makes no difference and you can pick little things here and there to pick at but it doesn’t change a thing I’m saying lol. 8 picks in back to back games is still 8 picks, you don’t get to pick and choose which statistics matter jajaja, silliness. Leading the league in interceptions the past two season is still leading the league in interceptions the past two league.
AGAIN Lots of TD + Lots of TO’s = No Progress At All.
Minimize the mistakes whether they lead to TO’s or stall drives which essentially turn the ball back over to the opposing team anyways and we win more games.
And I could care less what all those other QB’s did seeing as to how none of them wear a Bucs uniform. Smh lol.
Good job Chris, well said 🙂
August 11th, 2013 at 7:36 pm
past two seasons*
August 11th, 2013 at 7:37 pm
The problem is that his main issue is inconsistency. His short to intermediate passing accuracy is spotty but sometimes his throws are stunningly accurate. Sometimes he has bad decision making but other times he is great.
His footwork has been the one consistent problem throughout his career. When a play breaks down he tends to revert and not set his feet correctly. I honestly believe this is his biggest issue. That and Haiwaiian Buc mentioned the other day that Freeman doesn’t pump fake nearly enough. Sounds meaningless but the pump fake is part of what makes Big Ben so great.
@Stevek
Like a broken record man. You just take what one analyst says and then repeat it over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and again.
Say something original for once in your life man.
August 11th, 2013 at 7:42 pm
Ahh yes….the long drawn out posts about how Freeman should have sustained drives (No mention of how the defense should have shut off late 4th qtr comebacks) So predictable. Lack of football knowledge riddles the posts of anyone who blames this past year on Freeman. Would our game plan have allowed Josh to be more productive if we hadn’t fallen behind in so many games in the second half when teams could just pass at will? I think so. Doesn’t excuse his bad play, just says there’s plenty of blame to go around.
I don’t focus on Freeman because if you take away his two games where he threw 8 picks he put up some pretty good numbers. Good enough to win more than 7 games. Maybe some of you think Freeman should have given the defense double digit leads so there is no way they could lose the lead in the final minutes of the game. If that’s your thought process then it will always be Freeman’s fault. I don’t look at team sports that way. Both sides have a job to do and too many times the defense did not do there’s when they had to close the game out. I just find it impossible to blame Freeman when the defense blows the lead at the end of a game.
Too many times I’ve seen the argument that if Freeman would have played better and scored more points we would have won. Hey, he put enough points on the board to have the lead with just minutes left ( and by ‘he’ I mean the entire offense since it is a ‘team’ sport) That to me is a ridiculous argument. A lead is a lead. A good defense makes sure the other team does not score in the final minutes and win.
August 11th, 2013 at 7:42 pm
@PRBucFan
I’m not picking and choosing anything here. You are saying that Freeman’s turnovers were a reason we lost so many games. When you have seven games with zero turnovers and five more with only one, how can that be the case? How can turnovers be the problem in three games where he didn’t have any and we still lost?
You keep beating around the bush. Just answer the question.
August 11th, 2013 at 7:46 pm
@Bobby
Agreed. But they will just say your making excuses. Apparently the haters are the only ones that use logic so our opinions are just discredited. lol.
Just in case you missed it:
^^This is why we are wrong. lol
August 11th, 2013 at 7:46 pm
@Ian
That sounds pretty much spot on to me.
@WCBF
I agree with most of what you said but where we differ is I think that those problems more often than just sometimes.
August 11th, 2013 at 7:56 pm
Couch,
Opinion drop with caution, you may be “broken record” labeled for dropping your thoughts.
I agree, the inconsistency is more than “sometimes”, it might just be who he is?
August 11th, 2013 at 7:58 pm
I realize I worded that wrong. I meant that those were usually his problems but that occasionally he has displayed tremendous accuracy.
I also meant to mention that yes, he does have a problem with batted down balls.
We have heard from two people in the comment section here on JBF that actually went back and re watched all the games from 2012.
That was chris and BamBamBuc. They both came out with completely different observations so it is hard to tell who might be right.
BUT, dismissing his entire career, good AND bad, up to this point it is hard to argue that he won’t be better with a second year in this offense as well as a second year with all the great players around him. And, an improved defense should contribute to the win column, not just the loss column, in 2013.
August 11th, 2013 at 8:00 pm
@westcoastbuc,
Can you enlighten me or answer my question: 18ppg by the offense in the final 6 games?
And yes. The defense played horrible, but so did Freeman when needed most.
August 11th, 2013 at 8:02 pm
I am sorry, SteveK, if I hurt your feelings but it is just the truth. You get a headline or statistic and then repeat in every single thread every day until something new comes along to add to your repertoire. You don’t make any original statements. Just a jumbled mess from various analysts that have bashed Freeman.
August 11th, 2013 at 8:05 pm
I agree and I dont think anyone has stated that Freeman shouldnt get any better. I expect him to get better and by all rights he SHOULD be better. Question is will he?
The only reason why I dont believe he will is because he still has the same problems he had as a rookie, which suggests he isnt progressing very much… if at all. As a Bucs fan I hope I’m wrong.
August 11th, 2013 at 8:07 pm
Well yes, I can pick my random assortment of games as well. Here let me put it in the form of an answer:
How about the 34ppg by the offense in games 6 through 11?
I mean as long as we are cherry picking windows of games, what’s wrong with this one?
His play in the last six weeks shows his problem with consistency. He needs to get better. I have never disputed this.
August 11th, 2013 at 8:11 pm
I can tell all of you right now that Freeman will not magically turn into a consistent quarterback. He will probably always have his ups and downs. Whether it is for the Bucs or someone else.
The thing is, if you get even a mediocre team around him, they can compensate for his lows. They won’t all be wins but they sure as hell won’t all be losses like the five game stretch in 2012.
August 11th, 2013 at 8:15 pm
Aside from the top tier, elite guys in this league. Most “good” quarterbacks need something resembling a team around them to thrive. (By “thrive” I mean win.) Freeman is no different.
It is highly unlikely that he will ever be a Tom Br-ady that can put the team on his back and win it all on his own. Instead, at his peak, he will be a Flacco/Big Ben type of quarterback that can put a good team over the top but can’t make a bad team good. If that makes any sense.
Whether you agree or not, do you at least understand what I am saying?
August 11th, 2013 at 8:16 pm
Yes I understand.
August 11th, 2013 at 8:27 pm
Lol, I guess I expected more than a yes or no even though that’s what I asked for.
In a follow up, do you agree with all or part of what I said?
August 11th, 2013 at 8:47 pm
West Coast:
You’re right. But the NFL is 16 games long. A 6 game stretch of good football while the 10 other games were Bombs.
August 11th, 2013 at 9:03 pm
@chris
Calling ten games “bombs” is a gross exaggeration and you know it. We only lost two games by more than one score. Three losses were by only two points. (I’m sure you would attribute the closeness of those games to the defense.)
No way a quarterback “bombs” ten games and still wins seven games with the 29th ranked defense. He may have “bombed” two or three games and then been “mediocre” or “average” for more than that. He strung together six “elite” games in his first year with a real coach. How many can he do in his second?
August 11th, 2013 at 9:05 pm
I agree with what you said however. Me personally, I always like to strive for perfection. If what he is, is a sometimes great QB, I would rather move in a different direction. Someone who can be a most of the time great QB. He is, for the time being, the best we have. Hopefully at the end of this year, the answer of who Freeman is will be clear for all to see.
August 11th, 2013 at 9:13 pm
Fine, we’ll just all keep pretending, less TO’s don’t increase the probability of winning. Not one bit.
It’s just a made up age-old concept.
I for one am done jajaja. Goodnight.
@Stevek
You repeating yourself is no different from what others do on here so keep doing what your doing lol. 🙂
August 11th, 2013 at 9:21 pm
WestCoast…do you ever think that it’s possible that they are not haters, but just clueless? I mean because I’ve already come to my own conclusions that’s why I sat here and read all this crap all day long. I’m not trying to discourage you from blogging. Just saying like I told Junkie earlier in here it’s like swimming upstream in a tsunami of BS.
The problem with the Bucs was no pass rush and an atrocious secondary. Not Freeman and the offense. Hell it’s been said for the past 2 months in here, every which way it can be said. Every time Joe drops an article about Freeman. BTW I was reading everyones points and you were right time and time again. Keep up the good fight buddy. Sometimes it’s tough always being right, then when your proven right when the season goes on and you will be right. You might feel vindicated, like I have on NFL.com, with Buc bloggers.
I won’t even fire back anymore when they call me out(you know who you are)if you have not noticed. You remind me a lot of me on NFL.com the last 2 years before I found JBF. Except you go into great detail and they still don’t get it. Some of them go into detail too, but make no sense. Which may appear as a hater.
Meh you see haters I see clueless. I’m just tired of swimming upstream in a tsunami of BS.
August 11th, 2013 at 9:22 pm
@Couch Fan
I guess I just think it is not very easy to even find a “sometimes great QB”. That is why I think he should stay. It is so rare to find that “most of the time great QB” that I think the talent on the team would be wasted trying to find such a quarterback. While Glennon certainly has a chance to experience that kind of success, statistics show it is, at best, very unlikely that he even becomes as good as Freeman is now.
@PRBucFan
Well if you are just going to keep ignoring the question then don’t half a$$ it. Just don’t respond.
And for the record, repeating the same idea is not the same as what stevek does. Which is to repeat the exact same lines over and over again. Thread after thread. Always questioning Freeman’s ability and bashing him while claiming to be rooting for his success at the same time.
August 11th, 2013 at 9:37 pm
@Buc1987
A lot of them are clueless. A few are not. Sometimes they make good points which makes for a debate. My problem is that the “haters” generally exaggerate how bad Freeman was while some of the “jfro-ites” don’t give him enough blame.
The truth is that it is somewhere in the middle and that is usually what a good debate is about. I happen to think he is a little better than “in the middle”. They think he is a little worse than “in the middle”. I provide my reasons, they provide theirs. Nobody is ever convinced of anything but I do it for the love of football and the Bucs.
However, there are also the ridiculous fans that don’t really base their claims on reality but instead on pure, biased, hatred. It is obvious who they are. The problem is that most of the people that simply don’t think Freeman was that bad are labeled by the “haters” as “lovers”. Or that we think Freeman is the next Br-ady or something when that is generally not the case.
I think this team can make it to a Super Bowl, eventually, with this quarterback. That is probably where the line is divided at. Whether they think Freeman can go all the way or not.
Only time will tell. Real football soon!
August 11th, 2013 at 9:40 pm
I think this team can make it to a Super Bowl, eventually, with this quarterback. That is probably where the line is divided at. Whether they think Freeman can go all the way or not.
I concur.
August 11th, 2013 at 10:08 pm
Buc1987 Says:
August 11th, 2013 at 9:40 pm
I think this team can make it to a Super Bowl, eventually, with this quarterback. That is probably where the line is divided at. Whether they think Freeman can go all the way or not.
I concur.
____________________________________________________________
100% fully agree. If Josh becomes a consistent QB, I think I’ve said this earlier under a different article from Joe that this team is built to compete for a Super Bowl if “Good Josh” is here to stay. I will not argue that point. But he;’s got to work on consistency.
A franchise QB can hide deficiancies amongst your team. I mean, look at Atlanta and Green Bay. They aren’t complete football teams. Look at both of their defenses. Ranked in the 20’s. But they went to the divisional round and championship games respectively.
Atlanta is far from a complete football team on defense, yet, they have a franchise QB. They’re not worried. There dline is probably in worse shape than ours. They have weatherspoon at LB and Moore at S. Samuel is an aging CB. Then they’re unproven everywhere else or lack quality.
August 11th, 2013 at 11:01 pm
Atlanta has Matt Ryan, Julio Jones, Roddy White, and future HOFer Tony Gonzalez. I wouldn’t even put them in the same league as every single one of our counter parts.
But, we have a better offensive line and running game. I would like to hope our defense is better than theirs as well. That is why I think we have a chance against them.
While I agree with the concept, I don’t agree with the wording. If you replace “franchise” with “elite” then I agree. I think you CAN have a “franchise” quarterback that is not “elite”.
August 11th, 2013 at 11:04 pm
^^ An example would be Donovan McNabb. He was the Eagles starting QB for how long? I would say he was the “franchise” QB but I would never have considered him “elite”.
August 11th, 2013 at 11:14 pm
Atlanta is far from a complete football team on defense, yet, they have a franchise QB. They’re not worried. There dline is probably in worse shape than ours. They have weatherspoon at LB and Moore at S. Samuel is an aging CB. Then they’re unproven everywhere else or lack quality.
^^^^
And all of that could prove to be a detriment to them in the end, they may never make it to the SB with Ryan if they don’t shore up those areas.
Look I’ve already stated I think Josh is going to be lights out this season. So if I’m right, like I usually am. Us Buc fans have nothing to be concerned about. Did I buy my 1st season tickets ever for nothing? No sir, because I’m usually right. I replied to you because your post was insightful and I thank you for that. I’m sorry if I ever attacked you in the past. It’s just that I know I’m right and I might go about defending my thinking in the wrong way. I won’t call people morons or idiots anymore or single people out for people being stupid. It gets me nowhere.
You and everyone else in here can trust me on this one thing. Freeman is going to tear it up this year. So I will let everyone else argue it back and forth til their blue in the face. By the end of the season I will be right. Tampa Bay Buccaneers 2013 NFC South Champions.
August 11th, 2013 at 11:21 pm
I gotta say, I love your optimism.
August 11th, 2013 at 11:29 pm
WestCoast…eh you may call it optimism, but in the end, you, me, Buc’n Junkie and a few others will be giving eachother cyber-high fives about being right about Freeman. Then you can give me a cyber high five about being right about the Division Champs prediction.
August 11th, 2013 at 11:30 pm
Haha Bucfan1987, you and I are different. You have a lot of optimism basically saying Josh will be lights out.
Me? I think he has the talent to be a top 10 guy and in your terms, LIGHTS OUT. However, I’m more of a see it to believe it type of guy, because judging from my evaluations, he still has a lot to work on and correct. The thing that worries me is the poise in the pocket. I don’;t see it consistently.
I do agree. I’m behind him 100%. I think a lot of his past isn’t on him. Olson wasn’t the greatest coach. Neither was morris.
I’m just not a fan of people comparing stats with Josh to the likes of Manning brothers, Brees, Flacco (yes, Flacco is more than a game manager), Ryan, Roethlisbuerger. To me, stats are nice, especially Fantasy football, but I only care if they equate to wins.
I do think Josh Freeman can be the guy that takes us to a Dvision title this year. YES. I believe it. But only if the GOOD JOSH gains consistency. To me, sure Atlanta has the best WR duo in the league. But Tampas isn;t nothing to be a shame of in Williams/Jackson. They may have a better TE. But on defense, I’d say we have them beat. RB and OL beat. The thing is, Matt Ryan, RIGHT NOW, is head and shoulders above Freeman.
Josh has to prove it. And I hope he does.
August 11th, 2013 at 11:31 pm
BTW is it that far of a reach? I don’t think so.
August 11th, 2013 at 11:56 pm
@chris …you know what’s odd though, in life I’m usually a pessimist. I am an I’ll believe it when I see it type of person. Same thing I tell people that believe in UFO’s and aliens. I’ll believe it when I see it myself. I saw a much improved Josh under Schiano and Sully in 2012. Which I KNOW, not think will carry over to 2013. Why? Because I saw it in 2012. They will fix him. Trust me, they will fix him.
It’s so much easier blogging without all the usual riff raff. When the riff raff come back in the morning. I will again hide in the shadows.
August 12th, 2013 at 6:54 am
Again, Stevek you keep doing you and don’t let anyone act like they are doing it any differently.
About Freeman:
This team around Josh is too talented for us not to make noise this season, I’m not going into this season expecting a decline in Josh but on the same note I’m not going into this season expecting anything great from Josh either. If he can just be consistently average I think we will be fine. We have too great a talented team to not go far. I may not believe in him but I do believe in our organization/HC/GM and in the direction we are heading. Maybe one day he will change my mind, but as of now I’ll believe it when I see it.
August 12th, 2013 at 8:46 am
Couch says:
“I agree and I DON’T BELIEVE ANYONE HAS STATED THAT FREEEMAN SHOULDN’T GET ANY BETTER. I EXPECT HIM TO GET BETTER and by all rights he SHOULD be better. Question is WILL HE?
The only reason why I DON’T BELIEVE HE WILL is because he still has the same problems he had as a rookie, which suggests HE ISN’T PROGRESSING very much… if at all. As a Bucs fan I hope I’m wrong.”
And you wonder why we question your football IQ? You contradict yourself over and over.”I think Freeman will get better but I don’t think he will” HUH????? Are you bipolar or something?
August 12th, 2013 at 9:03 am
”I think Freeman will get better but I don’t think he will” HUH????? Are you bipolar or something?
——————————————————————-
Lol ok where in that article do I state I think he will get better? I said he should, I expect him to since he has no reason not to. But I never said I think he will… in fact I said I dont think he will and listed why….
You should invest more time and thought about your own post before spewing your unintelligent, and rather sad attempt to insult someone else
Nice try though kiddo.
August 12th, 2013 at 9:17 am
Couch…..you can’t be serious??
“I agree and I DON’T BELIEVE ANYONE HAS STATED THAT FREEEMAN SHOULDN’T GET ANY BETTER. I EXPECT HIM TO GET BETTER and by all rights he SHOULD be better. Question is WILL HE?”
Didn’t you say “I expect him to get better”? Then you turn right around and say you don’t expect him to get better. If you still can’t see the contradiction you probably are suffering from some sort of disorder. In that case I’ll just smile at you and move away slowly……
August 12th, 2013 at 11:08 am
Are you always this stupid when you try to get a point across?
Expecting him to get better but not believeing he will are 2 different things.
Of course I expect him to be better, he was crap last year. I expect ANYONE who plays like crap to get better…
Believing he actually will get better is an entirely different story….
I can’t make it any simpler than that you idiot.
August 12th, 2013 at 11:16 am
OK……so if I say I expect it to rain today then I really mean “I don’t think it will rain today.” You’re right….I’d have to be an idiot to not understand that….couldn’t be any clearer. ‘rolleyes’