“He’s Last In The Division Right Now”
July 9th, 2013
Former Bucs quarterback Shaun King has said numerous times that Josh Freeman is a good quarterback who is only a level below the elite, big-name class of QBs in the NFL.
King also says the Bucs should have locked up a contract extension for Freeman by now. However, King also claims Freeman doesn’t measure up to his counterparts in the NFC South.
“He’s last in the division right now,” King said on the Ron and Ian show on WDAE-AM 620 this morning. “That’s just me being honest and being fair. But I don’t think that’s a knock because I think Matt Ryan and Drew Brees are in that elite group.”
As for Cam Newton being better than Freeman, King said Newton ranks higher “because of what he can do running the football” and “the way he ended the year last year.”
One of three QBs to lead the Bucs to the NFC title game and an NFL analyst for NBC Sports, King also said the Bucs likely would regret parting with Freeman, if they choose to do so.
There’s not much more for Joe to write about Freeman; he must go prove consistent this season. But Freeman’s status within the division has got to be an X-factor on some level for the Bucs. Every team is focused on its division and how it ranks compared to other teams. (You can catch King’s entire interview below.)
July 9th, 2013 at 1:11 pm
The ultimate shit storm of a comment section. A Shaun King article where he bashes Freeman. The horror.
July 9th, 2013 at 1:12 pm
And that is the bell, “ding, ding”, let the debate begin.
July 9th, 2013 at 1:12 pm
and King is no Troy Aikman
July 9th, 2013 at 1:15 pm
QBs in NFC South:
1. Drew Brees- the best
2. Matt Ryan- pretty doggone good
3. sCam Newton- athletically superior
4. Josh Freeman- has the tools to be a top QB, and needs to prove it.
I predict fireworks from the Bucs this year. Either we make the playoffs and pay our QB, or we miss the playoffs and go after a new gun slinger.
July 9th, 2013 at 1:18 pm
I predict we make the playoffs with glennon after jfro 6 pack chokes
July 9th, 2013 at 1:22 pm
Robert,
I don’t know if Glennon takes us to the playoffs in 2013? How long would it take before Schiano would pull the plug on Freeman?
I would imagine that Freeman will get the first 6 games, minimum, but we shall see.
I would really not like to see our QB slump this year, so if Freeman does enter a funk, it would be prudent to make a change.
July 9th, 2013 at 1:42 pm
SteveK
I think if jfro 6 pack is clearly to blame for 1 loss, and is mediocre and we are 2-2 we have a 50/50 shot @ Glennon starting after the week 4 bye.
If we go 1-3 an jfro 6 pack is mediocre there’s a 90% chance he gets yanked in the same time frame.
2-2 and he looks good then he’s safe
3-1 and he’s Schiano’s boy again.
He’s on a REAL short leash, and Schiano knows this is the year. You never know what someone has until you throw them into the fire. If @ any point Glennon get’s thrown in and pulls a Kaepernick it will be the end of the line for jfro 6 pack and many, many tears will be shed and excuses made by his supporters on here.
my .02 cents
July 9th, 2013 at 1:51 pm
robert Says:
“I think if jfro 6 pack is clearly to blame for 1 loss, and is mediocre and we are 2-2 we have a 50/50 shot @ Glennon starting after the week 4 bye.”
I know that was directed at stevek, but I hope you don’t mind me voicing my thoughts on that.
I believe Mark Dominick believes in Josh Freeman. I believe Greg Schiano, a former college coach that is use to up & down players, is willing to believe in Josh Freeman.
This team nearly always starts slow out of the gate. I don’t think we see Freeman benched at all this year except under one-of-two conditions:
– Josh Freeman has 2 games with 3 or more picks and our winning record is not good
– Josh Freeman is injured for a few games and Glennon comes in and turns out to be great. (this would surprise me, but it COULD happen)
We haven’t even seen Glennon play pro football. To say that he could replace Freeman just because of a couple losses would mean our coaches and staff are shallow. And they don’t strike me as being shallow.
I respect your opinion on the matter, but I believe you are mistaken.
July 9th, 2013 at 1:55 pm
I also believe our first game of the season will set the tone for attendance. Even though it is an away game, if we come out looking dominant and win, I think we’ll see a boost in ticket sales that week.
btw, robert, there were a couple things you said that I think as close to right, so we’re not THAT far off.
July 9th, 2013 at 1:57 pm
@ stevek
Freeman has all the tools? What is lacking most is the one that rests atop the shoulders.
July 9th, 2013 at 1:57 pm
and for the record I think Freeman has the tools to be great, elite even. He is young and has ALL the tools.
I just don’t think he has the fire in the belly needed to man up under pressure and he knows he will have many offers even if he doesn’t make it this year.
kind of like ho, hum…oh well, someone else will offer me a job. which is exactly the way he approaches things when plays go south. golly, gee whiz, what happened.
July 9th, 2013 at 2:05 pm
“That’s just me being honest and being fair.”
So because he says he is being honest and fair, that means he really is? Zimmerman says it was self defense, does that mean it is true?
King clearly has an agenda against the Bucs the size of his substantial face.
July 9th, 2013 at 2:11 pm
Is that how it happens in Maddon, Robert? You pull your starting QB after 6 games to put in a 3rd round rookie who has no pocket presence at all and make the playoffs?
The only way Glennon sees the field this year is Freeman gets hurt, we get to 8 losses by week ten and Freeman has over 15 ints, or we are up by 28 in the fourth.
On topic, there is nothing wrong with putting Freeman on the bottom. Brees and Ryan are in another class, one Freeman hopefully gets to this year. As for Newton I am not buying, or drinking any of his cool aide. He has the physical tools but not the mental tools. He gives up and pouts on the sidelines when things are not going his way and shows very little leadership. This can change or he can go the way of Vick. Lots of SC top ten plays and possibly some playoff wins or maybe even make it to the dance. But in the long term I don’t buy Newton.
That said, Freeman is young and shows leadership ability. Has all the physical tools you could want in a QB. He simply has to put it all together.
July 9th, 2013 at 2:14 pm
http://countingdownto.com/countdown/256921
July 9th, 2013 at 2:18 pm
Tim you would have to be naïve to think that Schiano reached on a guy in the 3rd round when we had more pressing needs on the defense because he was happy with Freeman.
8 losses by week 10????? really?????
Schiano is just waiting for the opportunity to throw Glennon in to see if Freeman will man up and to see if Glennon has the stones. He won’t do it recklessly, but he will do it sooner rather than later.
July 9th, 2013 at 2:23 pm
I don’t know why (other than your mancrush for him) you keep quoting Shaun King.
We should not have signed Freeman to an extension by now. Worst case financially for this team is Freeman takes us to the Super Bowl (ala Joe Flacco) and Freemen becomes a free agent at the end of the year. To which we subsequently can franchise him for 2014! Let him prove himself again and sign him to a long term contract.
I love how Shaun King couldn’t beat anyone out of the QB position (he became the defacto starter by injury to the other two QBs on the roster). He couldn’t even beat out one of two Buc QBs that won the Super Bowl the year after being released from the team, Trent Dilfer.
July 9th, 2013 at 2:30 pm
I mean Shaun King couldn’t even beat out ROB Johnson, let alone being replaced by Brad Johnson. And it seems he takes as much care and detail on his current craft as he did with his QB play. More time studing film Shaun, less time at the Golden Corral!
July 9th, 2013 at 2:39 pm
Yikes, Tim.
I while I do believe Glennon was drafted to be a backup that plays a similar style as Freeman, even I would be hard-pressed to think they wouldn’t switch QBs if we got anywhere near to 6-8 losses by week 10.
So far as would they use a third rounder on a backup QB? Happens all the time. This year alone they drafted only one true starter (Banks). Spence is only starting by default (if indeed he does).
The grass is always greener on the other side until we jump the fence. Glennon has a lot to prove. We see Josh Freeman spending a LOT of time at the facility, practicing, putting together player camps for his team and more.
I do believe he has the fire in his gut, robert, but I think because of past circumstances it feels more like nausea. I’ve said it before. I think it is a matter of trust. Trust in the gameplan. Trust in his teammates. After that comes, he’ll develop trust in himself.
This year can go a long way in that direction. We’ve seen what he can do when he isn’t under as much pressure. He’s among the best. The goal is to get him to play like that all the time. To do that, I believe we have to first lesson the pressure. Give him room to grow. Then when the pressure does come, he’ll be better able to handle it.
I think Dominic, Schiano and Sully feel that way too. That’s why the all out effort to get Revis and Banks. That’s why Goldston (sp?).
Either one of us could be right. Wish the season would get here so we can find out who.
I REALLY hope we trash the Jets and the Saints in the first two games though.
July 9th, 2013 at 2:42 pm
Freeman isn’t going to get yanked in favor of Glennon unless (a) Glennon shows rapid development, and (b) Freeman slumps worse than he ever has. Even last year’s slump was not bad enough to replace him with a rookie QB unless that rookie QB was Luck, RG3, or Russell Wilson. Glennon isn’t one of those guys…
July 9th, 2013 at 2:42 pm
The 300s Says:
“We should not have signed Freeman to an extension by now. Worst case financially for this team is Freeman takes us to the Super Bowl (ala Joe Flacco) and Freemen becomes a free agent at the end of the year. To which we subsequently can franchise him for 2014! Let him prove himself again and sign him to a long term contract.”
I think we’ll see a franchise tag as well, but I think there will be a contract before the start of the season next year.
July 9th, 2013 at 2:45 pm
Curmudgeon, out of Luck, RGIII and Wilson, I predict only RGIII will avoid a slump. Just my oddball prediction.
July 9th, 2013 at 2:51 pm
@ Robert
I think there is a 0% chance Schiano benches Freeman for Glennon. The only way Glennon plays is if Freeman gets injured. There is a small chance where Freeman could be benched for Glennon. Freeman would have to be awful all year long and our chances at the playoffs would have to be gone. At that point Schiano might put Glennon in to see what he can do for next year.
July 9th, 2013 at 3:03 pm
so, no one thinks that if we’re losing, basically out of the game and Freeman is in a slump that he won’t get yanked?
I see this happening by week 8 @ a minimum.
July 9th, 2013 at 3:06 pm
Cumaggedon
I’m not saying glennon is luck, Wilson or rgIII
he is taylor made for this offense though. All we need is someone who can manage the game, throw accurate, read a defense and throw bombs.
Freeman only has one of those 4 things down after 4 years.
think about it.
July 9th, 2013 at 3:19 pm
If all hope is lost for the season, then Glennon might play… but I don’t think it’s gonna come to that… Think about it — with the d-backfield that cost us 3 or 4 games, we still went 7-9… The d-backfield has been remedied. If Freeman plays the same as last year, we should expect 10-6. I’m not saying anything about Freeman other than the fact that you can still win with him, despite his flaws. Let’s see how he does this year. Maybe he’ll need to be replaced next year, maybe not… but we *will* win this year. Count on it.
July 9th, 2013 at 3:32 pm
You either have a Franchise Qb or you are looking for one. And the Bucs are looking for one.
July 9th, 2013 at 3:47 pm
Firs things first….Josh DEFINITELY has room for improvement. But…..
Had the Bucs gone to the playoffs last year and Josh had the exact same stats, it would be considered a decent season for him. I truly believe the fact that he had to win nearly every game became a tightening noose. The pass defense…well documented…was atrocious! And the run D was so “good” because nobody had to run to establish the pass. Twenty yd passes and last second game winning touchdowns came with ease to the likes of Nick Foles.
So if you tally up the games our defense lost for us on their own…with a little research…Giants, Redskins, Cowboys, Eagles, Saints (Defense gave up 21 pts and 300 passing yds in one quarter!), Falcons…
That’s a 6 game swing. 13-3 record if the Pass D just got one more stop per game. Anyone who knows anything about football knows that those 6 losses rest squarely and solely on the shoulders of the pass defense. If the Bucs would have finished 13-3 no one would be talking about Josh getting booted.
Just my 2.5 cents.
July 9th, 2013 at 3:48 pm
Yet another analyst that states the facts for all of the Freeman apologists to hate on. Here come the excuses.
July 9th, 2013 at 3:52 pm
Shaun who? Was a worthless QB and and worse as an analyst
July 9th, 2013 at 4:05 pm
“the Bucs likely would regret parting with Freeman, if they choose to do so.”
Regret parting with Freeman would be like regretting having a tooth pulled that has been causing you to have migraines for weeks…. If JF hasn’t improved dramatically this season then parting with him will be a TREMENDOUS relief!
July 9th, 2013 at 4:11 pm
^^^Minus the gigantic hole left in the wake.
July 9th, 2013 at 4:28 pm
westcoast
there may be a hole, there will be some adjustment period for whoever steps in should we go in another direction.
but this team is stacked!! Chucky would pull a veteran QB in here and light it up. who’s to say Schiano won’t.
fear of change is not a reason not to change.
July 9th, 2013 at 5:11 pm
If Glennon gets to play it he may be like Painter and kill his career. He needs to be slowly brought in to be broken in right. I believe Josh will find his way as he likes the Tampa area and knows this is his last chance. I only hope our offensive line gives him the opportunity to zero in on his targets.
July 9th, 2013 at 5:14 pm
Happy to hear from Shaun….no story would be complete without him…especially regarding QBs….because
“Shaun King, one of two Buc Quarterbacks that lost a NFC Championship Game when his defense gave up 11 or fewer points.”
July 9th, 2013 at 5:22 pm
robert
No but change that sets the team back a decade to find another quarterback that can at least be considered an “enigma” is reason not to change. You don’t move on from what you have until you have a sure fire upgrade in place. (You wouldn’t just quit your job without having another lined up. Realistically.) If Freeman performs less than spectacular I would much rather them spend a high pick on a QB in 2014 than to trust the season to a rookie third round pick. Freeman has to perform worse than he ever has in his entire career to get pulled in 2013. An unlikely event, all factors considered.
As far as pulling in a veteran, was the QB carousel really that exciting? Always wondering which QB Chucky would drag out of a nursing home every year? The QB position is, by far, the hardest to fill in the NFL. You don’t cut bait until you are absolutely positive your QB will never work out. Freeman has been inconsistent but never bad enough to warrant an outright release.
Mark Sanchez has been much worse than Freeman throughout his career and he still has a job. Right or wrong that is a true testament to how desperate teams are to find a QB. Not to mention Derek Anderson is still throwing footballs somewhere. DEREK ANDERSON. Brandon Carr. Matt Leinart. How many seasons did Alex Smith get? Shoot, the biggest bust in NFL history, Jamarcus Russell, very well may just get a job this year. Think about THAT.
All I am saying is the worst thing we could do is cut Freeman prematurely and wind up with no quarterback. It would be more than just “an adjustment period”. It would be a major setback. The chances of Glennon becoming even a mediocre quarterback are razor thin. I did a study a while back and something like 5% of QBs in the third round have panned out, maybe less. That doesn’t mean Glennon can’t succeed just that it would foolish to count on such a thing.
July 9th, 2013 at 5:41 pm
2013 postseason NFC south QB rankings.
1 – Drew Breese
2 – Josh Freeman
3 – Matty Ice
4 – Can’t Newton
July 9th, 2013 at 5:52 pm
Cam Newton is a cocksmoker.
July 9th, 2013 at 6:04 pm
Look, we will have a defense that will be capable of taking over games just like the super bowl defense. I’m not worried about it being on Freeman’s back. If we could win with Brad Johnson we can win with Freeman.
July 9th, 2013 at 6:11 pm
LMFAO. Curmudgeon. That. was. awesome.
“Cocksmoker”. I haven’t heard that one in while. I genuinely laughed out loud at that one. That’s the kind of hatred we need to have towards rivals.
July 9th, 2013 at 6:54 pm
You don’t move on from what you have until you have a sure fire upgrade in place.
———————————————
isnt that exactly what they did with Bennett? So its not unthinkable they’d do the same if Free stinks it up early.
Glennon may not be the answer but until we know that by his play theres no reason to think they wouldn’t yank Free out, if he’s not performing, to see what Glennon is capable of.
July 9th, 2013 at 7:38 pm
There is two years of film on Bowers. Sure it was sparingly here and there but he has also been with the coach for a year and Dom for two. They have a general idea of what he is capable of. I don’t think the same could be said of Glennon. Besides, Bennett wanted out anyway. He was never coming back. The season has to be totally tanked for Glennon to get an opportunity.
July 9th, 2013 at 7:58 pm
What I mean by that is, I don’t think Glennon would ever be put in in an attempt to salvage the season. He would only go in if we were thoroughly eliminated from the playoffs. Just my opinion but I don’t see Freeman being yanked before seven or eight losses. (Unless perhaps for five or six consecutive losses.)
July 9th, 2013 at 8:02 pm
What do Rogers, Brees, the Manning Brothers, and Brady have in common? They were all watching the Super Bowl instead of playing in it. What do the Ravens & 49ers have in common? ELITE DEFENSES! You can give me the Ravens ranking, but trust me they are elite and have been for years. Last time I looked the Bucs scored 26 points a game last year. Whether you think Freeman was responsible or not; it was more than enough to win most games. So in my opinion the offense can score enough to win against most opponents, but why isn’t anyone questioning whether the D can keep teams from scoring?
July 9th, 2013 at 8:06 pm
Yeah lets mess with an offense that scores 26 points a game! This is getting comical.
July 9th, 2013 at 8:08 pm
Lets not even consider the four best QB’s in the league were sitting on the couch watching the SB.
July 9th, 2013 at 8:10 pm
Who did play in the Super Bowl? Two Elite Defenses! Give me the Ravens ranking all you want, but they are ELITE!
July 9th, 2013 at 8:23 pm
Does anyone care what King Dingaling thinks. The guy is a complete bonehead. Cam Newton is a complete box of rocks. At least Freeman has a brain and can put together coherent sentences. Cam is a man of few words: oh, man, duh, huh, it’s not my fault, and he also count to 6. Genius I tell you.
July 9th, 2013 at 10:36 pm
I’m also not on the Cam Newton bandwagon. Reminds me a lot of Vince Young. Incredibly athletic, but incapable of handling the QB position in the NFL. He will rely purely on athletic ability (like Vick) to be decent for a while, but never great.
July 9th, 2013 at 11:25 pm
I don’t understand what moron believes we drafted Glennon to be the future franchise QB of this team. That’s not to say he won’t, but NO team drafts a QB in the third round thinking he will the the future. If they did, guess what, they would draft him before the third round!!!! You think the Patriots thought Brady was their future??? Seattle did all they could to keep Russell Wilson on the bench, but he was absolutely tearing it up in the Preseason. They drafted Glennon as a backup, and as a possible project. This was one of the weakest overall drafts in forever, and certainly the weakest QB draft in a looooooong time. If Glennon ends up starting, it will only be because they have given up on Freeman. And unless Glennon plays like Russell Wilson, we will be looking for a starting QB in 2014. It is so beyond ignorant that people think that we drafted him in the third round to be the man. And even worse, you are dumb enough to type it up and put your name on it (albeit an anonymous name). He was the highest rated player on our board, so they stayed true to it – period. Patriots did the same thing a few years back with Mallett. Do us all a favor – think before you type.
July 9th, 2013 at 11:28 pm
“All we need is someone who can manage the game, throw accurate, read a defense and throw bombs.”
———
Damn, you’ve got it all figured out. If only the scouts knew that all we needed from our QB was to do everything a QB is asked to do! You sure have dummied it down a little, don’t you think? So we shouldn’t have someone who mismanages a game, throws inaccurate, can’t read a defense, and can’t throw the deep ball? I’m just glad to know that is all we need, and no more.
July 10th, 2013 at 12:37 am
Hey, for any of you stat geeks (Joe not included, we know he isn’t a stats geek… lol)…
There has been a lot of chatter about “3 and outs” with our offense last year and especially geared toward Freeman. Now, I’ve already shown somewhat how much is playcalling and the run game, but…
The Buccaneers had 193 offensive drives in 16 games last year (8th most) and they had 41 “3 and outs” (21.24%, good for 13th best in the NFL). Yeah, that’s middle of the road, but some seem to think we were horrible at 3 and out drives. I’m just putting this here to show it wasn’t as bad as you remember it to be. Most of us remember situations from games that seem to make this stat worse, like the Philly game (which I’ve also shown some of the situations that forced 3 and outs there). When you start the game with 8 consecutive punts, you automatically think “3 and out” and usually say the QB didn’t “convert”. In those 8 drives ending in punts we had 4 first downs, 3 converted by the passing game. Penalties killed several drives. Just saying, don’t have a short term memory when recalling last year, look at everything.
I think, if you do, you’ll be amazed how much the blame needs to be passed around to everyone (passing, running, O-line penalties, defensive secondary, defensive penalties, coaching, play-calls, etc.)
Maybe then you can understand why I see the faults in Freeman, yet don’t hold him purely accountable for the team’s failures to end the season. If you don’t have video recordings of the games, at least look up the “game book”. Pro Football Reference usually adds them to the boxscore portion of their site and Bucpower has them as part of the “Every Season Reviewed” section. A little research, a little memory, and every game recorded makes a world of difference when recalling what happened last year….
July 10th, 2013 at 5:03 am
Nice info BamBam. Here’s what I know for the stat guys who want to focus solely on Freeman’s two multi-interception games and inaccuracy as the causes of the 9 loses. Our offense (commanded by Freeman) was 9th in the league. Our run defense was 1st in the league. Our pass defense was last in the league. Hmmmm, I wonder where the problem was?
July 10th, 2013 at 8:23 am
Freeman has the potential, tools, and the undoubted beliefs of many.
Freeman needs to have a “show me” year. There is absolutely no way around it.
Time for the “Enigma” to stop “teetering”, and lead this team (just like Shaun King lol) to the playoffs.
July 10th, 2013 at 9:07 am
Steve,
Most of that year was Dilfer Dude! King was just lucky enough to be put into position to get us there.
July 10th, 2013 at 9:19 am
The bucs have gone to the playoffs on defense alone. We have seen much worse quarterback play and this defense has a chance to be special. At this point, I’m not asking Freeman to be a stud. I just want him to not f*** this up
July 10th, 2013 at 9:22 am
The enigma is King playing in the NFL at all. He was too small and was just awful as a QB. Freeman threw for about as many yards last season as King did in his career. And remember the Defense that King played with when he did play. Now King has turned into a burger stuffing mental midget with a huge pie hole that never stops consuming food and regurgitating excrement. He likes the sound of his own voice way too much.