Williams Believes Freeman Ready To Soar
June 19th, 2013_t607.jpg)
Joe will never forget a moment last season in the Bucs locker room. It was during the time when Josh Freeman was in the deep recesses of his slump that essentially killed the Bucs’ drive for a playoff berth. Wide receiver Mike Williams, usually an easy-going if not soft-spoken kind of guy, went on a passionate (for him) defense of his quarterback.
Williams stated that he and the rest of the Bucs’ wide receivers had to be on the same page as Freeman and Freeman’s miscues were as much the fault of the receivers, maybe more so.
Williams again came to his quarterback’s defense during mandatory minicamp and told eye-RAH! Kaufman of The Tampa Tribune that Freeman is ready to take the next step into elite status.
“We know this offense,’’ says Mike Williams, who fell only four yards short of joining Vincent Jackson to give the Bucs a pair of 1,000-yard receivers. “We know when to break off routes and what zone to read. It’s a knowing instead of reacting to something. Josh Freeman’s got this offense down pat. The big problem last year was we couldn’t get on the same page, knowing when to break our routes off.’‘
This also reinforces what Bucs offensive coordinator Mike Sullivan told Joe last week, that Freeman is far, far advanced in Sullivan’s offense from where he was a year ago.
With an improved secondary, and Freeman, Jackson, Williams and Doug Martin not only having a year of Sullivan’s methods under their belts but also a season playing together, the state of the Bucs offense is very encouraging.
June 19th, 2013 at 1:05 pm
Uh , Freemans ” slump” didn’t kill the bucs drive to the playoffs . It was the 29 ranked pass defense and the 4 games it lost for us. Almost the worst pass defense in the history of football.
June 19th, 2013 at 1:18 pm
lol….knowing the route isn’t as much of an issue as jfro’s accuracy.
June 19th, 2013 at 1:21 pm
Playoffs…yes we’re going!!
June 19th, 2013 at 1:24 pm
Joe, what is it with all of these positive articles abot Josh Freeman?
I swear, if you write one more positive article then I promise to take a week off from JBF!
June 19th, 2013 at 1:25 pm
Good point, robert. I completely understand how when Freeman throws to the spot where the WR is supposed to be, but the WR made the wrong read and ran the wrong route and wasn’t there, it makes perfect sense how inaccurate Freeman is. He should be throwing to the wrong route too, he should wait to see which direction the WR breaks before throwing, so he knows which route they’ll run. All QBs wait to throw until after the WR makes the break, DBs are too stupid to figure out where WRs will be when they’ve already made their break and would never cover a guy running to the wrong spot.
June 19th, 2013 at 1:30 pm
People need to relax about the types of articles Joe has been providing lately. It’s the slowest time in the NFL, not much going on, yet Joe manages to provide 4-6 articles a day, providing his own insight on the topic.
Granted, as there’s nothing new happening, those topics are often reporting on other people’s thoughts on the Bucs.
For those of you who don’t care for this, think about the alternative (see Pewter Report), maybe twice a week new content is provided, much of it is “old news”.
Keep it up Joe, let those who don’t care for these types of reports try find another source that provides this much conversation on our beloved Bucs.
June 19th, 2013 at 1:30 pm
#238 – you’re right, one positive article a week is way too many, and I think that was actually Kaufman’s article. Joe just links to it and adds a little color commentary.
June 19th, 2013 at 1:31 pm
@BamBam….LOL! Little sarcasm there BamBam? You nailed it though. The QB does appear to be the one at fault when he throws the ball before the break and the WR doesn’t break off the route but a lot of times it is the WR who is at fault. This year should see major improvement in that area.
June 19th, 2013 at 1:39 pm
Bobby – Me??? Sarcastic???? Never!!!
June 19th, 2013 at 1:42 pm
We shall see but I hope so!
June 19th, 2013 at 1:51 pm
Now or never for Freeman.
His Buc future is reliant on a strong 2013 showing, no “slumping” while in a playoff hunt…
The pass D is fixed, how is the QB going to do with a playoff talent roster?
June 19th, 2013 at 2:00 pm
Freeman = Most Improved Player 2013
The offense was top 10 in year 1, where will they rank with another offseason to further grasp the offense?
I can’t wait for this season!!
GO BUCS!!! GO FREEMAN!!!
June 19th, 2013 at 2:03 pm
I love reading these stories because it just confirms that Freeman is the QB of this team for the long haul. Anyone who believes Glennon will ever start over Freeman, barring injury, needs a hard slap to the face to help them wake up to reality. Only in Madden and in your wet dreams does a lesser talent like Glennon get to start over a superior one like Freeman. Get over it.
June 19th, 2013 at 2:06 pm
Yes I’m sure it’ll be real hard for Glennon to ever best Freeman’s average of 6 wins a year.
June 19th, 2013 at 2:11 pm
lol
now it’s the receivers fault.
lets see…..
receivers fault
new offense fault
3 schemes in 4 years fault
defense is at fault
jfro had a wedgie
not enough talent around him
the o line was hurt
he bwoke his widdle finger shooting guns
its raheems fault
I can go on….., but there’s a reason all the broadcasters say we live or die by jfro. it’s because he ha not proven he is capable on a consistent basis
START GLENNON!
June 19th, 2013 at 2:12 pm
@T in Orlando
You missed it buddy.
Out of touch much?
June 19th, 2013 at 2:15 pm
@ Steve
The defense is not fixed until we can consistently hold teams to under 20 points a game.
Yeah,the players look better on paper, but the scheme was dreadful. It will probably take till mid season to see a cohesive unit out there.
With 5 new starters on D, ball control and sustained scoring drives from our offense will be the key to winning.
June 19th, 2013 at 2:16 pm
If the Bucs want to make it to the playoffs then Freeman must play well, not be a “game manager ” but actually take command of the offense. The problem I see is that he misses too many routine throws and doesn’t manipulate the defenses he faces. Meaning he doesn’t pump fake or look off defenders.
June 19th, 2013 at 2:17 pm
@Couch
Glennon wouldn’t have won 2 games with last years squad.
June 19th, 2013 at 2:21 pm
@robert
Every time I see you comment “START GLENNON!!” I laugh hahaha it’s hilarious. Such blind faith in a quarterback who hasn’t even played one snap in the NFL yet. Wait, let me guess: “Russel Wilson did it last year, so can Glennon!!” XD such a tool
June 19th, 2013 at 2:33 pm
@Walter
It’s really ignorant to form an opinion of someone before they ever take a meaningful snap under center. But hey do what you do.
June 19th, 2013 at 2:38 pm
Some of you fans just hate to hate on Josh Freeman !!! Think back to when we had the Craig Erickson’s ,Trent Dilfer,Vinny T, Shaun King, C.Sims, Journey man Johnson, Brian Griese, B.Leftwich ( yes he won a super bowl ) Because we had one of the greatest Def in NFL History and most likely 4 Hall famers 2 for sure and Ronde and Lynch have a great shot ! If Josh Freeman Played with that def we would’ve had a few more rings !!! And with the stable of Bucs QB over are History what gives us any right to crap on Freeman!!! not like this is QB USA or we have a great tradition of QB like in SF or Indy or Greenbay or PATS… so relax and be thankful we don’t have to relive some of those horrible qb days. I know some of you just started rooting for the Bucs so you don’t know any better but lets not run off the best Qb tht has played for the Bucs…. Yes we had Doug Williams and S. young but they didn’t play well until they left outside of the one year run Williams had in the late 70s. None of those Qb could have gone 10-6 with that Buc team , did in Year two of the Rah tenure.. We have not had a good Def in his 4 years. Be careful what you wish for and run the best QB in franchise history out of town before the man is even in his prime !! he a 24 year old kid that already holds every Qb record in ( Tampa) history!! not to say much with who I mentioned earlier, but still goes without saying.. Does josh have his flaws sure he does but so does every Qb outside of the Elite class… We could be a lot worse off without Freeman than with him.. I’m Sure Revis is like Josh if I had you in New York we would’ve made a super bowl or two.
June 19th, 2013 at 2:40 pm
@Couch
It’s funny, that’s what YOU do. You assume Glennon would do as good as Freeman, even though Glennon has admitted that he isn’t even remotely close to being ready, but it’s incorrect for me to assume that Josh Freeman, a 4 year veteran who has proven that he can produce and lead a top 10 offense in the NFL, is the better QB??? Nice logic their buddy
June 19th, 2013 at 2:41 pm
Glennon isn’t even better than Orlovsky at this point.
June 19th, 2013 at 2:45 pm
@FLBoyInDallas
Shhhhh, don’t tell them that! Glennon is our savior!! He’s gonna lead this team all the way to the Superbowl! Hahaha
June 19th, 2013 at 2:53 pm
Miscommunication and poor timing with his receivers has been a hallmark of Freeman’s young career. He’s lucky that he has receivers like Jackson and Williams who can usually win the battle for the ball as long as it’s in their general vicinity.
We’re running out of excuses. It’s Free’s second year in this offense, and he should show major progress. Anything less, and we’ll all be wearing “Vote for Pedro” t-shirts by midseason.
June 19th, 2013 at 2:58 pm
I love the Freeman haters…. Because they make me look smart because I KNOW Freeman will be an Elit QB for the Bucs.It’s not that hard to believe in Freeman for me if you just look at the facts and his improvement,but most haters just don’t know how to do that.Ok you can reply now haters! Just remember all the crap you spew 6 months from now. GO BUCS!!! GO FREEMAN!!!
June 19th, 2013 at 3:03 pm
@Illuminati
What kind of progress are we talking about here? Cuz we were 9th in passing offense, so I’m just wondering what your expectations are? Are we talking top 5 offense, or do you mean same statistics, but no 4 interception games? Keep in mind though, even the elite quarterbacks have bad games. Hell, didn’t Peyton Manning throw 3 INT’s in the first half against the Falcons last year?
June 19th, 2013 at 3:07 pm
Couch Fan & Robert should gather some Glennon lovers, go stand outside One Buc, and Circle Jerk in protest to an effigy of Glennon until they start him.
June 19th, 2013 at 3:16 pm
Couch fan and Robert truly showing the football knowledge ….lol. How dumb can you 2 be ??
June 19th, 2013 at 3:17 pm
@tonytwocents
They’re gonna be at One Buc for a looooooooooooong time then haha
June 19th, 2013 at 3:19 pm
Of course miscommunication and poor timing has been a hallmark of Freeman’s career. However when someone tries to state the facts, like he’s been in a different offensive system every year with a new coach, it’s like that shouldn’t matter and it’s just an ‘excuse’. Well, it’s a damn good excuse don’t you think?? With some of you people it’s like the facts don’t come into play at all. It takes time to develop timing on routes and when the routes and plays are changing from year to year, do you think there might be a slight possibility that this is going to affect the QB and receivers timing and communication?? I know, I know, “It didn’t affect Russell Wilson”. Well, it did Andrew Luck and my guess is Luck is going to have a better career than Wilson. Almost everyone in a new system struggles. Look how things changed for Cam Newton last year. All you have to do is look at stats to realize that Freeman is sniffing elite status. Only 8 other QB’s threw for more yardage than Freeman last year. Only 6 threw more TD’s. And some of you want Glennon to start??? It’s like trying to discuss pro football with Pop Warner fans. Just a different level of understanding between posters.
June 19th, 2013 at 3:23 pm
Lol Couch fan and Robert sounds like a spoof of Batman and Robin. I know, completely random, I’m easily amused.
June 19th, 2013 at 3:23 pm
What a bunch if ignorant comments from a small group of Freeman haters… Yall folks say START GLENNON not because you feel he has a chance to win but because he NOT Freeman. Pull for your team and support your QB. Until you can replace Dominick and screw it up yourselves, support your team! 2013 is make or break for 5. Sad thing is, when he succeeds, then where will you go to complain? D line depth?
June 19th, 2013 at 3:25 pm
How, can you say were going to the playoffs with Josh Freeman.
He can get hurt the first game! Look at Brady a couple of years ago.
June 19th, 2013 at 3:26 pm
@Walter
I’m just talking about generally improved awareness, accuracy, and decision-making. Even the most elite quarterbacks have bad games, and sometimes even a streak of a few bad games.
Through the first nine games of 2010, Peyton Manning only threw four picks. Then, in the next three games, he threw 11 picks. He had a 3-pick, and then back-to-back 4-pick games. And the Colts lost all three of those games.
So, I’m not down on Freeman for having a couple of crappy games. What disturbs me is that he closed out his fourth season with five straight games where his QB rating was below 80. That shows regression, not progression.
All I expect from Freeman is progress and consistency. We all know he can be great.
June 19th, 2013 at 3:28 pm
I forgot the jfro is better than or old soory qb’s excuse for keeping him in the game thanks Kod
jfro should have been yanked in @ least 3 games last year.
June 19th, 2013 at 3:32 pm
Pick your favorite Napoleon Dynamite quote, in case you need them (and hopefully you won’t) come November:
You wanna play me?
Tina, come get some ham.
Are you guys having a killer time?
I caught you a delicious bass.
Oh yeah? Who’s the only one here who knows secret Ninja moves from the government?
Grandma just called and said you’re supposed to go home.
You have the worst reflexes of all time.
A freakin’ 12-gauge, what do you think?
I already made like infinity of those at scout camp.
June 19th, 2013 at 3:43 pm
Glennon:
“Ideal height to see over defenses. Accurate on the move, showing the ability to square his shoulders while rolling right and delivering an accurate ball. Very good arm strength. Throws a tight spiral with very good velocity and the confidence to thread the needle against tight coverage. Showed improved recognition of defenses as a senior.”
jfro:
“Fails to step into his throws or square his shoulders at times, relies on his arm strength too often. Inconsistent accuracy from the pocket and throwing on the run. Needs to anticipate downfield throws better, sometimes getting the ball to his receiver a second early or late. Prone to turnovers, makes poor decisions trying to make plays that aren’t there. Does not feel backside pressure. Lacks touch on shorter throws. Ball comes out of his hands poorly at times, negating his arm strength. Sometimes pats the ball before the throws. Loose with the ball in the pocket and as a runner.”
June 19th, 2013 at 3:51 pm
@Illuminati
Then I think you will be very pleased this year. This offense was explosive in year one, but I recall numerous long, time consuming drives as well. I think with a 2nd offseason to further study Sully’s system, and not just by Freeman, Jackson and Williams will be running better routes and reading coverages more consistently, there’s simply no way the offense doesn’t improve. Throw in the return of two beastly Guards in Joseph and Nicks, plus the possibility of a third receiver emerging from training camp competition, we could be looking at one of the most potent offenses in the NFL next year. Add in a revamped secondary, along with our stout front 7, I just don’t see why we all shouldn’t be excited.
On a different topic: I thought last year was a nice step forward from the year before. We went from a 4-12 team that was blown out week to week, to a team that was in it til the end in almost every game, all the while being dragged down by the the 2nd worst pass defense ever. I know it was disappointing to finish the way we did, but did any of us even really think that we were going to even be in playoff position at all last year?? I know I didn’t, and reading through the comments last offseason, no one else here did either. Whether you want to believe it or not, Freeman’s play during the first 10 games of the season was probably the main reason we were even at 6-4 and in wildcard contention in the first place, and I think some people lost sight of that because they saw us winning games behind the hottest offense in the league, and started to expect that production week in and week out even after Nicks went down, and the O-line became a patchwork group of nobodies. Anyways, as I had expected already, our offense was not able to score over 30 a game for the whole season, and the losses started piling up. I still felt at the end of the season that the team had improved dramatically (except the pass D, that was just….. horrible) and I look forward to the further improvements coming in to this season. I expect great things from this squad, especially in the seasons after 2013, where I expect we will become regular playoff contenders. We have a tough, aggressive, talented young team. And no, I’m not using youth as an excuse, I’m saying that these men will be hitting their primes together, so we are going to be one nasty team to play against.
June 19th, 2013 at 3:54 pm
@Robert
Lol did you REALLY just post the strengths of Glennon’s scouting report without the weaknesses, but posted the weaknesses of Freeman’s scouting report without the strengths??? Once again, WHAT. A. TOOL.
June 19th, 2013 at 3:56 pm
walt you need to stop thinking about MY TOOL. sheez, you spend so much time on jfro’s tool I would think you’d be satisfied.
but he does leave us all wishing for more.
START GLENNON!
June 19th, 2013 at 4:04 pm
@robert
Sorry bro, but if you’re gonna continue to post stupid comments on here, I feel inclined to call you out on it every time. I can’t stand stupid people.
June 19th, 2013 at 4:24 pm
hey robert, you dumbass. just wanted to give everyone the rest of those scouting reports that you copped.
Glennon (weaknesses): Has just two seasons as a starting quarterback and saw his completion rate drop and interceptions rise last season. Lacks the athleticism to escape pressure and has erratic accuracy when forced to re-set his feet, making him vulnerable to pressure. Highly inconsistent throughout the week of practice and in the Saturday game at the Senior Bowl.
Freeman (positives): Tall frame with a solid build. Arm strength allows him to make all of the NFL throws and attack the deep half. Stands tall, will step up in the pocket, keep his eyes downfield and deliver the ball to secondary target. Good, not great, quickness on release. Keeps the ball low over the middle, away from defenders. Can be accurate on fades and corner routes, although he needs a bit more air under the ball. Good straight-ahead runner with long strides and deceptive speed, can shed arm tackles and uses his tall frame to get extra yards after contact. Dropped some weight to better his footwork and speed. Works under center and in the shotgun.
robert: talentless, unoriginal and misleading commenter, horrible reasoning, possibly little-to-no genetalia.
June 19th, 2013 at 4:31 pm
@ Walter
Prior to last season, I posted on a few message boards that the Bucs would finish 7-9, which is exactly what happened. It didn’t happen exactly as I thought, but the end result was the same.
Right now, I see us finishing 10-6 in 2013. I make that prediction, as I always do, assuming that we will split with our division rivals overall. That doesn’t usually happen, because we often sweep one rival and get swept by another. If things go our way, we could win 12.
I’m more jazzed about this current coaching staff than I have ever been about any Bucs staff, and I’ve been a fan since franchise inception.
This team has enough talent to make a championship run. It also has just enough holes to fall short of the playoffs altogether.
I like that we have a week 5 bye. At that point, we will have played two games that we should have won, one that we shouldn’t, and one that should be a toss-up. I feel like we will know a whole lot about the current incarnation of this team after those first four games, and I trust this coaching staff to make the necessary adjustments in scheme and personnel during that bye.
I don’t think our run defense will be as stout as last year, only because that’s statistically hard to duplicate, but it should be one of the better run defenses nonetheless. I have no doubt that our secondary will be much better because, if nothing else, how could it not be? And because, let’s face it, Revis and Goldson were absolute monster acquisitions.
I’m moving down to Mexico City next month, and there’s a bar within walking distance of my apartment down there that has NFL Sunday Ticket. I expect to be the loudest gringo in that place, because I think this will be a great season for the Bucs.
@ tonytwocents
Cheers to you for calling out robert’s statistical cherry-picking.
June 19th, 2013 at 4:52 pm
Playoffs! We’re going, and Josh will be our QB…Glennon will be a good backup. Chill.
June 19th, 2013 at 5:11 pm
So I guess when Mike Williams was open in the end zone and Josh threw it in the stands that Mike was in the wrong spot. Or when Josh threw it to the Cameramen on the sidelines. This is really stretching the boundaries here. You could see the timing routes that were off and there were many, but you could also see the errant throws from Josh and they were many. When you hit the running back in the foot with a pass, he was obviously in the wrong spot, or if he was laying on the grass 5 yds behind the line it would have been completed.
Look, I’m very optimistic and think this team can dominate as well as intimidate opponents in 2013′, but call a spade is a spade and Josh Freeman melted down, lost his head, and totally sucked in the second half of the season. Spin it, say it is or isn’t so, but I know what I saw, which is every single play of the season. If Josh pulls that crap again, we are done and my vote is for Teddy Bridgewater.
Please Josh stop sucking.
June 19th, 2013 at 5:40 pm
Josh Freeman is a good qb he’s not perfect. He’s the best qb bucs ever had. Glennon wasn’t an elite college qb. How can he start over a qb how throw for 4000 yards. Our offense was top ten. Do u really think glennon can do better?
June 19th, 2013 at 6:30 pm
BigMac – I can agree with the optimism and even agree that if we don’t do well and Josh isn’t our QB then I hope we take one of the top available QBs next year. My concern is they may pass on a top talent next year because we have a 3rd round pick invested this year in a QB. If we let Josh go (if he’s bad this year) and rely on Glennon over a guy like Bridgewater or someone else (depending on how this college season plays out) then I will be really pissed (unless of course Glennon is the next Tom Brady, I won’t say next “Russell Wilson” because Wilson’s only done it one year and it’s too soon to tell if he’s really any good).
I could break down play by play for ya on the last half of the season, as I still have every game recorded and watch them fairly regularly to go over how many passes were at people’s feet or in the stands, how many of those were because the screen pass was completely covered or pressure was ready to sack him (rather an incomplete pass in the stands than a 7 yard loss)… But we all remember things differently, that’s why I watch the games over and over and over… keeps them fresh in my mind for debates and heated discussions…
June 19th, 2013 at 7:04 pm
@tonytwocents
“robert: talentless, unoriginal and misleading commenter, horrible reasoning, possibly little-to-no genetalia.”
PRICELESS! I was thinking he left out a few facts. Glad you called him on it.
Free will step it up this year. I trust our coaches can fix some of his bad habits His knowledge has grown.
I have to ask you haters. How many of you were perfect and “elite” at 25 yrs old? My guess is not many.
Free lost a year of riding the school bus in college cause he was drafted Jr. and has had crap coaching till last year. Sully will get him straightened out. Stop hating and start seeing the facts. If you continue too ignore them then Id almost wonder if you are harboring deeper, more personal issues against Freeman.
June 19th, 2013 at 7:43 pm
Well BamBam, the best part of your post was you never came right out and said I was wrong. Thanks for that, and I’m well aware of your detailed observations. And although I tend to exaggerate ever so slightly, a couple of those overthrows lead to losses, I do believe. I so want to believe in Josh and so hope Mike Williams is right about this. I don’t want another QB and want the Josh thing to work. He has the skill and the tools, but he has had so many different coaches pulling him in different directions, that he does deserve this year to prove he can be a top QB in the league. The scary thing is that so much is riding on his shoulders and boy I hope he can make it happen. All he needs is consistency, don’t do too much, just do it right when it’s your turn. Doug Martin should carry a major load with a healthy O line.
Just got a Revis jersey. I’m ready.
June 19th, 2013 at 7:52 pm
Facts? You want facts…well …the fact is unless there is something catastrophic that happens to Freeman before the start of the season, he will be the starting QB. Can he do better? Of course. He has all the tools at his disposal and a big fat juicy carrot waiting next off season. Yeah I’d say he plays smart football finally. With this rare chance, to actually use the same playbook two years in a row is going to make a huge difference with his and receivers reads, timing, and accuracy. Hell, Josh maybe eating pineapple next year himself.
June 19th, 2013 at 8:18 pm
@ Joe , do you know why Freeman didn’t show up for his football camp today ? That ain’t cool, hope he had a good reason ?
June 19th, 2013 at 8:32 pm
BigMac – I never came out and said you were wrong, because you aren’t. There were some bad throws. No doubt about it. There were also a lot of good decisions putting the ball into the ground or in the stands rather than take a sack or getting intercepted.
What I really hope we never have to see is Freeman has an exceptional year, earns that big contract, and decides to test the free agent market rather than sign with us because he read JBF in 2013 and the fans don’t even want him in Tampa. That would be tragic to finally have a franchise QB and lose him because he would rather go to a different market with different fans.
June 19th, 2013 at 8:37 pm
@ Raphael
What makes you think he wasn’t there? I just saw an interview with him, at his camp, and he sure looked like he was there. So was Vincent Jackson.
June 19th, 2013 at 9:31 pm
@illuminati. I heard he didn’t show up until the end of it….wasn’t sure tho, that’s why I was wondering ?
June 20th, 2013 at 12:10 am
@Walter
Nice try but show me anywhere in any post where I have said Glennon would be better than Freeman. Only thing even remotely close that I have said is that Glennon can’t possibly do to much worse than getting us 6 wins which is what Josh has got us.
Those are facts there buddy. You and the rest of the leg humpers keep holding on to those 4000 yards for life support. One thing is clear, he better get us more than 6 or 7 wins this year or he is outta here!
June 20th, 2013 at 12:14 am
@ couch fan…so the 29 ranked defense doesn’t exist as far as your concerned ?
You do know there are 3 phases to the football game ?
June 20th, 2013 at 12:30 am
@Raphael
You do know you cant hold the defense accountable for Freeman’s crappy play right? No more so than you can hold Freeman accountable for the defense’s crappy play. You do realize Freeman has glaring flaws in his game right?
Freeman is our QB, thats not going to change (until at least the season starts). That doesn’t mean we have to continue to make excuses for the guy and blame the defense for his inconsistency. And I’m also not going to sit here and act like an ignorant moron bashing a rookie who has not yet even took a single meaningful snap for us.
June 20th, 2013 at 3:47 am
@ couch fan you know you just can’t give Freeman credit for breaking franchise records last year…..you just don’t know what your talking about that’s all.
June 20th, 2013 at 6:34 am
As usual the “Freeman sucks” vs “Freeman is good enough if the defense could hold up (not yet elite)” comments rage on. Typical that some resort to name-calling and junior high style retorts when their arguments to prove Freeman’s weaknesses are so shallow. Why they are unwilling to recognize the good and want only to focus on the bad plays is no doubt because their opinion of our QB started in 2009 when he was drafted ahead of DT Peria Jerry when they thought Luke McCown was good enough. At least some critics remain hopeful that Josh will succeed. The one’s that hope he fails so they can strut around and chant “I told you JFro sucked” puzzle me.
June 20th, 2013 at 9:54 am
@Raphael
Lol what are you talking about? There’s no denying he broke franchise records last year for a team that historically has had really bad QBs. That doesn’t impress me very much but still can’t take that away from him… however that has nothing to do with how good of a QB he is. Last time I checked breaking historically insignificant records doesnt win you football games.
June 20th, 2013 at 10:23 am
@Couch
So throwing for 4,000 yards and tossing 27tds isn’t good enough, even though those are both top 10 numbers last year? I’m pretty sure Freeman finished what, like 7th overall in TD’s thrown last year, I think that’s pretty awesome. Only 6 QB’s threw more TD’s than him. Anyways, my point is that you make it seem like his production is mediocre, but it’s really not. You’re just belittling his accomplishments because the team didn’t make the playoffs.
June 20th, 2013 at 10:42 am
No his play is mediocre not his production. Thats the main difference in our opinions. There are plenty of reasons I can get into why I think the way I do but you will just come to make more excuses for him so I wont even get into that but yes ultimately to me it comes down to wins and losses not how good does he look in the stat box. And I’m not discrediting anything, you are just vaulting him on some pedestal when he doesnt belong there… yet.
Im a fan of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers just in case you didnt know. I want to see them win. There is nothing to praise after a 7-9 year and 3 or 4 straight finishes in the bottom of the divisioin. Sorry if I dont want to settle for mediocrity like some of yous.
June 20th, 2013 at 11:20 am
Couch, I’d love to hear your reasons for thinking the way you do. You know I have supported Freeman so far this off-season, but that doesn’t mean I don’t want to hear your reasoning behind how you think.
I’m more curious how a guy can have very good stats, yet only be considered mediocre play. Not even good play, just mediocre. If that’s true, the only thing I can say is that Freeman’s ceiling is still extremely high. If he can break team records playing mediocre, then if we can get him playing very good, he’ll be in the hunt for MVP of the league.
Where I disagree is where his play translates to wins-losses without the consideration of the rest of the team. The defensive secondary was horrible last year, both statistically and when it comes to wins-losses. The O-line was make-shift again, which affected both the run and pass game and did contribute to wins-losses. The pass rush wasn’t exceptional, partially again due to injury, and that did contribute to wins-losses. All of those things need to improve to increase the win-loss category. Did Josh contribute? Of course, but so did coaching, play calls, and everything listed above, plus more. Special teams? Yeah, that contributed as well. Does Josh have more impact than any other individual area? Probably, but his play wasn’t that bad, just not good enough to overcome ALL the other deficiencies. Some, yes, not all. There is no reason to believe that with improvements in other areas on the team, with guys returning from injury (both O-line and D-line, although we’ll have to expect more injuries this year, they always happen), and having a second year in the same system with the same major role players, that we won’t be significantly improved. If we’re not, then changes will be made. Is it the QB? Hard to say, because if he’s playing well we need to fix what’s wrong, not what’s working but unable to overcome other areas of deficiency. Fix the deficiency, not the working parts.
June 20th, 2013 at 11:58 am
If he can break team records playing mediocre, then if we can get him playing very good, he’ll be in the hunt for MVP of the league.
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Exactly! In my opinion Josh has broke those records playing (usually) half a game of football. If we can get 4 quarters of consistent football from him (doesnt have to be spectactular), he would be without a doubt top 5 QB in the league. But that is my main problem with him is that he very seldom plays 4 quarters. You simply can not win in this league consistently with a QB like that. Defense is a problem I know this but Freeman could of overcame the defense if he was consistent. Hopefully with another year in the system he will fix these issues but after 4 years and multiple coaching changes, to me anyways, it seems as if its more Freeman than anyone else. My main expectation for a QB is “can he help us win?” So far in his career that answer is no. Hopefully with another year in the system and a healthy O-Line we will see some improvement in this part of his game. I’m hoping so but I have no problems expressing my opinion that I’m not counting on it. If I am wrong, I will have no problem admitting to it because that would mean we actually won some games and made the playoffs hopefully.
I know you are a big stats guy and I see a big list of stats coming Lol. But I’m not into stats, I watch the games and can see how he is playing and he has shown flashes at times but for the most part has been pretty unspectactular.`
June 20th, 2013 at 12:20 pm
@Couch…your reasoning and your arguments are about as lame as any I’ve read on here. You refuse to acknowledge that Freeman gave the defense the lead in the final minutes of 4 games (you can add can’t you couch?) that’s 4 games we should have won and yet you insist that those four games were Freeman’s fault. Now, I’m betting money that if your watch baseball and the Rays go into the bottom of the 9th with a 2 run lead or a 1 run lead and the closer gives up a 3 run homer and blows the lead that you place all the blame on the closer. You should. That’s his job…to close out the game and save the lead, hence they call it a ‘save’.
Now…try to follow this because apparently this is part of football that you don’t understand. There are ‘two’ sides to a football team. The ‘offense’ scores the points. The ‘defense’ tries to prevent points from being scored. Now, when the other team scores more points than we do that isn’t always our offenses fault, especially when our offense has the lead in the final minutes of a game, much like going into the bottom of the 9th in a baseball game. If the defense blows the lead the blame goes to the defense…not to Freeman. Freeman is a QB couch..not a DB. I know there is a ‘B’ in both but they are actually different. If Philly scores a TD with 2 seconds left on the clock, Josh wasn’t on the field so most clear thinking people are not going to place the blame on him. Now, it could be that you thought you saw Freeman out on the field playing free safety or something, I don’t know. In my mind and in the mind of people who truly understand the difference between offense and defense and what their perspective jobs are, Freeman did enough to win us 11 games last year. Our defense did NOT.
June 20th, 2013 at 12:37 pm
@Bobby
Maybe you should go back and read slowly. Maybe slower than usual since you clearly have a reading comprehension problem. Thats about as far as I’m going to go into a debate with you since clearly you are one of those Freeman leg humpers who think he can do no wrong.
June 20th, 2013 at 12:44 pm
I won’t overwhelm this with stats. Pretty simple really. In 3 1/2 years of starting, Josh has 9 4th quarter comebacks, 10 game winning drives in 56 starts. Of course that means we were behind in some games and needed to come back to win, and I can see the argument that he needed to play better early in games. Last year, he only had 1 4QC GWD. However, he did come back and get the lead in at least 3 others that we ended up losing. Skins, Falcons, and Eagles. Hold those leads and we get 3 more wins, Josh has 12 4th quarter comebacks in 56 starts, that’s pretty impressive and shows the ability to win games. Unfortunately for him, the D didn’t hold up and get him those numbers. As for better early starts, you’ve seen the stats. Whether it be just a FG or a TD, we did get leads early in games. Maybe it’s just the 2nd and 3rd quarter? But we also have to stop the other team to have a lead early. The D didn’t do that in the Giants game, the Saints first game, etc.
What really matters is final score, and we didn’t win that battle enough last year. Josh Freeman put up numbers both in “stats” and points on the board in the 4th quarter to have us in position to win more games than we lost. The final score doesn’t show that. My opinion, there’s a reason, and it’s the defense. We’ve made great strides in fixing that and I’m absolutely stoked for the upcoming season.
June 20th, 2013 at 12:50 pm
Bobby: I see where these guys are coming from in their argument. In the Philly game, Free was not playing FS or anything else the final drives, but punting on 8 consecutive drives to open the game didn’t help either. It was the play early on that says “inconsistent”. I can’t argue much with that. I can say Free finally got into the game in the second half and made up for what was lacking in the first half, enough to get an 11 point lead that should have been insurmountable by a backup 3rd round rookie QB. But I do see how the opening 8 drives should have done better. I also see how that wasn’t all on Freeman either, the run game wasn’t special that game and the O-line sure let a heck of a lot of pressure in. There were a few drops as well, so the WRs didn’t help as much as they could. Meanwhile, the D was wearing down. They did ok early in the game, but couldn’t keep it up. Is that Freeman’s fault? Not really, but I can see the thought process well enough.
June 20th, 2013 at 12:58 pm
As for the baseball analogy…
The Philly game goes like this…. Freeman is our cleanup hitter. He’s been in a 0-4 slump so far in the game, striking out 4 times. He comes up in the top of the 9th, down 3 and hits a grand slam home run to give us a 4-3 lead. We all cheer for our main guy getting us the lead, but our bullpen is depleted by this point. We give up two singles and a double to the first three batters faced in the bottom of the ninth, they score 2 runs to win the game and we have no chance of getting our guy back on the field. Game over.
Well, if our guy didn’t go 0-4 to start, our bullpen may have been ok, we may not have been down 3 in the 9th. Up 4-3 in the 9th and THEN hitting the slam puts us up 8-3 and those 2 runs don’t hurt us. There is logic in that, but even in that scenario, you’re putting all your money on one guy in a 9 man lineup. Sometimes you need the other 8 batters to step up too.
I see the logic in both sides in that game, but still agree with you that we should have won with an 11 point lead and 7 1/2 minutes left in the game.
June 20th, 2013 at 1:19 pm
@BamBam
That sums it up pretty nicely. I cant argue with that at all. Our defense did let us down and I have never denied that. But I look at it like this. If you must pass the blame on 1 specific thing, what makes more sense? Putting the blame on the defense that played up to its talent level or the guy QBing the team who didn’t play up to his talent level?… to me its just common sense.
I personally dont want to put the blame on any 1 thing as thats impossible and its not fair to either side of the argument, however its rather sad that everytime a Freeman article is posted, the homers are quick to chime in placing all the blame on the defense as if Free has played spectactular football his entire career.
June 20th, 2013 at 2:29 pm
Ah, that’s the difference…. I can see it now. Our “common sense” differs. My common sense says to put the blame on the defense that played to it’s talent level. Why? Simple. They maxed out, the can’t get any better. If a change is needed, it’s where you’ve maxed out and still aren’t good enough. If there is still room for and ability level to improve, I’d rather foster that growth and improvement, and change the part that’s maxed out for something with a higher ceiling. I think we’ve done that, which is why I’m happy where we are now. Simple difference of opinion, and I won’t attempt to change yours, just let you know mine and why.
June 20th, 2013 at 2:29 pm
Look…I could give a flying crap about style points OK? I don’t care if the offense limps into the 4th quarter with a lead and we had to punt 50 times. Apparently the other team had to do the same thing because we had the friggin’ lead in the final minutes. Why is that so extremely difficult for you to grasp??? You know what a lead is right? It means ‘WE ARE AHEAD’ ‘WE ARE WINNING’ So the defense is gassed…It’s not like we’re asking them to hold up for 10 minutes. It wasn’t just Philly. What about the Giants?? 40+ pts just wasn’t good enough for you huh? Or Atlanta where we just let them go down and score in the final minute. Or how about Washington where they come back to beat us in the final minute? Freeman’s fault huh because he didn’t look ‘all pro’ enough getting the lead… I was right, you do not understand the game. You want ‘pretty’ while all most people care about are results.
June 20th, 2013 at 2:36 pm
By your logic Couch, in the comeback win at Carolina the defense should get the credit because they kept the game within reach. Freeman did nothing right to win that game just like the defense did nothing wrong to lose the ones we lost in the closing minutes.
June 20th, 2013 at 2:46 pm
@BamBam….your baseball analogy about the bullpen again makes no sense. How is our bullpen depleted by the 9th inning? It’s not like we only have one closer and one guy going 0-4 isn’t going to determine the offensive production. Bottom line…if the bullpen is spent in a nine inning game then you need a new bullpen. Surely you have one guy you can rely on to get 3 outs.
Same thing in football. What happened to Martin? Was the O-line blocking and opening up holes? Was Freeman getting harassed all day with rushers in his face? Were the receivers getting open? Most football games are dog fights. There are few blow outs. The game is usually determined in the closing minutes. I’d say if the QB (really the entire offense) has given the
defense the lead (any lead) in the closing minutes then they have done their part. Whether or not the QB looks ‘elite’ while doing it is immaterial.
June 20th, 2013 at 2:47 pm
Some of the best QB play I have ever seen from a buc QB..^^^^.and I am a Florida native right here my whole life.
June 20th, 2013 at 5:48 pm
No Bobby, we didn’t have “one guy to get 3 outs”. That would be our DBs and none of them could close the game, get the save. You’re right, Free did his job in the end. He kept striking out early, which didn’t help, but his grand slam gave us the lead. Too bad we didn’t have any DBs to get the save on that one. Again, Free didn’t have to keep striking out early, and that may have been the difference if he had scored then as well, but then we really are relying on one player to do everything and that’s a pretty scary thought. What happens if Free goes down? Gets hurt? The whole team tanks.
So, I’m right there with you, I don’t want it all on Free’s shoulders and think the DBs should have made the save on that one. I also understand that maybe in that one game (not that it would have made any difference for the playoffs) that Free could have done more to win it. Sometimes you need an Albert Pujols to go 4-5 with 3 HRs and 5 RBI so the closer gets a day off.
June 20th, 2013 at 7:45 pm
If you put a cow in the bullpen, she’s gonna get rode hard and put away wet.
July 19th, 2013 at 11:02 pm
You all might as well change this site to I Hate Josh Freeman. You fair weather fans can’t appreciate the best qb play in Tampa Bay ever. Freeman had us up in the 4rth quarter in all but two games last year it was the horrible horrible secondary tha lost those games If not for that pass D Josh Freeman would have led the Bucs to their best season record ever. Seven of those 9 losses were by 8 points or less when Free didn’t turn the ball over at all. 8 of his 17 interceptions came in 2 games after a depleted O line and trying to carry D as well as the O. Great job Joe keep up the positive Freeman articles. Freeman is the future of the Bucs, and all you haters will see that once and for all. Go Bucs!!