“Tell Me When I’m Wrong”
June 9th, 2013
In the WDAE-AM 620 audio below, former Bucs quarterback Shaun King makes a stellar case for why Tony Dungy should be among the top four Buccaneers of all-time, part of the team’s mythical “Mt. Rushmore.”
It’s worth the listen. It’s almost impossible to argue against King’s argument.
Of course, King talks some current-day Bucs and defends his steady criticism of rockstar general manager Mark Dominik during the interview with electronic media czar J.P. Peterson.
“He’s been there four years. How did the secondary get to that point? When you’re the general manager and you’re competent and able to select guys and develop guys, like your secondary, no area on your team should get to the point that Tampa’s secondary was last year,” King said. “I mean having said that, we’ll see what happens. I stand by everything I’ve said about Mark Dominik. And what I tell people is, ‘Don’t tell me I’m biased. Tell me when I’m wrong.”
King, one of three QBs to lead the Bucs to the NFC title game, also is getting frustrated that many fans are questioning his anti-Dominik motive.
“I get really upset when people come up to me and ask me, ‘Do I have something against the Bucs?’ or am I biased? I love the Bucs more than anybody that I know,” King said. “I grew up a Buc fan. I’m from St. Petersburg. Like there was no greater experience in my life than to come back and play for the team I rooted for.”
June 9th, 2013 at 9:26 am
Here we go again. This guy is like ricochet biscuit.
June 9th, 2013 at 9:41 am
Well, one thing he is wrong about is that 3 of 4 the cornerstones of the defense were selected in the Wyche regime.
June 9th, 2013 at 10:01 am
Yes Dominik has been here four years but three of them were a coach the he did not select. He had to draft talent that fit that coaches scheme (did he have one?). For all we know Raheem could of told Dom I am good with the guys I have. Dominik hired Greg and I think he should be judged by this coaches record not the one he didn’t hire. He has made some mistakes as I am sure every young GM has but it seems he has learned from them and is growing his drafts have been getting better. Also you can’t blame him when he wasn’t allowed to spend money for free agents in the past.
June 9th, 2013 at 10:04 am
Goodolebucfan says:” For all we know Raheem could of told Dom I am good with the guys I have.”
I believe Rah was clamoring “SIGN THAT PUNTER!!” after going 10-6 in 2010.
June 9th, 2013 at 10:08 am
Goodolebucfan says: “Also you can’t blame him when he wasn’t allowed to spend money for free agents in the past.”
We utilized about 60% of the salary cap during the beginning of Dom’s tenure. We now “have to” hit the floor (thank god!).
I agree with you that IF Dom was not allowed to spend, he should get somewhat of a pass. 24-40 is a long way from reputable.
June 9th, 2013 at 10:09 am
Of course he wants Dungy immortalized, Dungy drafted him or he might have played somewhere else rather than his favorite childhood team…… Is Shaun 5 ’10” in both directions now? 🙂
June 9th, 2013 at 10:11 am
I agree 100% with his assessment of the secondary. It should have never gotten to this point and it sunk deeper in the stink swamp by passing on Mo Collins last year.
I’ve said it a thousand times: unless Mark Barron becomes Ronnie Lott, it was a bad pick. They could have gotten “very good” production” anywhere in the draft or f.a.
June 9th, 2013 at 10:25 am
@Adam L
I’m glad we passed on Mo Collins. I don’t think some chick from MADtv would have improved our secondary one bit.
June 9th, 2013 at 10:25 am
Sorry I know 24-40 is not good at all but what I am saying don’t judge him on the record of a coach he did not select. You can give a coach all the talent in the world but if he can’t develop it or coach it you can’t blame the GM. Judge him from last year on with the record. If it doesn’t get better than I say move on. These players are now being coached the country club is no longer say goodbye to the chest bumps and week day partying with coach Rah then back to work the next day with a hangover. The culture has changed and the results will too. Remember your only as good as the people that work under you. The circus left town the clowns are gone Year one was proof they are being coached work in progress.
June 9th, 2013 at 10:29 am
The Bucs secondary pretty much self destructed. Tanard was an excellent safety until he went into full on party mode. Talib had all the potential to be a great corner, but he also regressed and stayed in a trouble. First round picks should produce. Ronde was the one constant that helped keep it going, but his CB play regessed under Rah’s watch. Myron Lewis was Dom’s first big Secondary Bust. I think he was a 3’rd round pick. Lewis should have been that big CB, but Dom’s scouts totally whiffed on him. At the same time his secondary was falling apart, he had to rebuild the D line, and Price was another huge bust because of health reasons. Its hard to build the whole thing simultaneously. The Eagles tried it and failed miserably. Dom has improved and righted the ship somewhat, but I also don’t think GruAllen left him much to start with. Its been and uphill battle and Rah’s 10-6 fluke really made things worse long term.
June 9th, 2013 at 10:30 am
I remember reading here about Raheem saying he wanted Julius Peppers, who turned out to be a super free agent signing by the Bears in 2010
June 9th, 2013 at 10:33 am
Mr. King…we tell you all the time when you’re wrong, which is 95% of the time. The talent on this team rivals the talent on the Bucs super bowl team. I predict we will be in the playoffs more times under Dom’s watch and we will win at least one super bowl.
June 9th, 2013 at 11:03 am
You guys have to understand one thing before you complain about Dominick. Ever heard the saying the cupboard is bare? This team was VOID of any talent after Gruden (love the guy) and Allen left. Anyone who knows football and is realistic could have told you this was a four or five year project. We now have several Pro Bowlers and a bunch of young talent with potential. I can see this team being good this year and in the near future. The Glazers were probably smart saving their money until the timing was right and they added talent through the draft.
June 9th, 2013 at 11:16 am
Joe you have a great site, but Mr. King commentary brings it down. This guys is biased and fukk of hate for Dominik.
June 9th, 2013 at 11:17 am
King’s rationale makes zero sense. He spent his first three seasons selecting players (and retaining players) that fit for the T-2 defense. CBs that excelled in short areas and could tackle, play zone, etc. under a coach he didn’t hire.
Only in the past two seasons has he been trying to find man to man cover CBs. Two similar defenses but with completely different skillsets needed at the CB position is certainly no indictment on the GM’s inability to secure DB talent.
June 9th, 2013 at 11:20 am
For King, proving he’s wrong often takes time. You just have to look at his fat face to know his philosophy of “How could something be wrong when it tastes so good?” hasn’t been working.
June 9th, 2013 at 11:30 am
I feel that we saw enough improvement from all angles last year to evaluate him on a curve because of the financial limitations he was exposed to for the first few years of his tenure. Although this does not excuse the mistakes he has already made ( Clayton and a few others). I truly think he has potential to be one of the better gms in the league eventually. … just not yet!
June 9th, 2013 at 11:33 am
We had a reasonable discussion on twitter about this. I pointed to his last 3 years of win loss predictions and his prediction against atlanta. I actually used write ups from this site. He’s pretty arrogant.
June 9th, 2013 at 11:42 am
If Shaun McBurgerKing wants to crtiticize our defense last year, he needs to understand the root of the problem. Raheem wanted so hard to be one of the guys, he wanted to be liked rather than respected. And he got no respect. They walked over him, and eventually gave up on him.
In comes Schiano, an actual coach, a disciplinarian, and I think Talib and Co. couldn’t keep up after years without any direction.
And if King doesnt realize that its the coaches job to develop players, and not the GMs, then he has no business trying to come across as an NFL expert.
By the way Joe, everytime you mention King as a QB that lead us to the Championships, I feel like pouring hot coffee all over my keyboard.
And Dominik might have made a few mistakes here and there, but talent he’s brought in makes up for than tenfold. And if King wants to talk about bad decisions, just post his DUI mugshot next to all future articles.
June 9th, 2013 at 11:55 am
Remember that Championship game with Shawn King at the helm….the future looked bright. All it seemed was that Shawn needed to work his rear off, move forward and play a few steps better than he did again the Rams, and with that great defense, we would be back again. But something happened…or should we say didn’t happen. What did Shawn do in the off season…did he see the opportunity and give 110 percent to learn the offense better and develop his skill? I don’t know, but Tony was the coach. And Shawn never again had such an opportunity.
I’m not Dom’s number one fan. But please, Shawn. Nobody is perfect. And if we don’t make the playoffs in a year or two and Dom ends up unemployed, we can all speculate about his missed opportunities.
June 9th, 2013 at 11:56 am
You know, Dominik was eventually the Director of Pro Personnel, while King was still a Buc.
Dom played a role in free agent signings, and especiaally scouting rookies. And we drafted Chris Simms with the intent on grooming him as our future QB. So the next year, Shaun King’s contract was up, and we let him go. I bet thats where King’s bitterness comes from. Dom recommended Simms, and that meant the end of Shaun King….just a thought.
June 9th, 2013 at 12:05 pm
Everybody seems to forget when Gruden/Allen were sent packing, Dominik was hired with the dubious task of starting over. Having to release a lot of the older players e.g. Derrick Brooks, John Lynch, etc… It wasn’t popular with the fans in the beginning and they harassed Dominik for it.
Also the Glazers were going through their soccer team financial crisis and instructed Dominik not to acquire expensive free agents to fill the roster. They wanted him to build through the draft exclusively so they could keep a tight handle on expenditures. That’s why in the beginning during a press conference, Dominik said that the franchise has decided to build through the draft.
The Glazers are at fault for the start of Doms regime. That’s why last year when the new CBA was voted in and it required all teams in 2013 to spend 89% of its cap the Glazers decided to spend in 2012, ahead of schedule. It was a Public relations move by the Glazers to make it look like they have recommitted to winning on their own free will, but in reality they would have to spend in 2013 anyway.
Turns out, it was a brilliant move. They landed VJax, and Carl Nicks in a year hardly anyone else spent money, cause they were all waiting for 2013 when they would be forced to spend. J.M.O.
June 9th, 2013 at 12:18 pm
I think if the Bucs won the Super Bowl, Shaun King would still be on the radio complaining about something.
June 9th, 2013 at 12:22 pm
I guess King forgot that Wirght and Talib were out. Does he think the Talib trade was a bad move? If so, he’s dumber than even I thought. Then Wright got popped and hurt. Without those things our secondary wouldn’t have been so bad. Now look at it. As a result of Doms attention. It’s arguably the most talented in the league.
I’ll tell you Shaun. You’re wrong. Again. And it’s getting old.
June 9th, 2013 at 12:42 pm
Joe and fellow bucs fans,
Im home (orl) on leave until 20 june, wondering if there are any buc related festivities open to the public that i could try to attend before i leave???
June 9th, 2013 at 1:14 pm
So glad ..you get really mad….thanks for your role as a Tampa Bay Buccaneer…but to put things in grand historical perspective..you were a bit player that did what you were supposed to do…..and that was NOT MUCH !
June 9th, 2013 at 1:23 pm
Ron Cooper and Bill Sheridan were the Bucs problems last year not the secondary. There was very poor coaching as far as fundamentals and technique. If King were smart (which he isn’t) he would see that. Instead he beats a dead horse blaming Dominik. I think Dominik is doing a fine job, but he better find a damn qb!!
June 9th, 2013 at 1:35 pm
Hell King thought Doug Martin was a bad pick. All the guy did was gain 1900 yards from scrimmage.. Second all-time in Bucs history. So to me Shaun King is not a really good credible source to evaluate a GM. Just look at King for what he was and is. A very bad, and atrocious quarterback that couldn’t score damn touchdown to get his team to the Superbowl. And as bad as he was a quarterback he is as bad or even worse as an analyst.
June 9th, 2013 at 1:36 pm
King must have a great agent and Joe must owe him money
June 9th, 2013 at 2:02 pm
First
” King, one of three QBs to lead the Bucs to the NFC title game”
because we can never apparently hear it enough on this website.
Secondly…King is actually wrong about the secondary and here’s why:
Offense.
For the first time in Bucs history we have the makings of a top-teir offense. It required resources that were not directed at the secondary. Regardless of how King feels, you only have a limited amount ypu can do each year. It’s not like the effort was not made last year. The Bucs got Wright.
June 9th, 2013 at 2:13 pm
Your wrong Shaun
June 9th, 2013 at 2:16 pm
Maybe the state of our secondary last year was due to two of our starters being suspended for a good chunk of the year and not on the actual quality of the unit Dominik put together. Unless King things “psychic” should be among a GM’s abilities.
June 9th, 2013 at 2:22 pm
I doubt King will ever admit it but it has to be some underlying hate somewhere when it come to Dominic because it’s pretty obvious he has a personal vendetta…I agree that Dom hasn’t been perfect but he hasn’t been as bad as King would have the world believe…Dom had some tuff decisions to make coming in; it had to be hard to purge the team of so many fan favorites…Those orders came from the top; I definitely wouldn’t have wanted that job…
June 9th, 2013 at 2:34 pm
It’s not easy to go from one of the league’s oldest team to the youngest and remain competitive.
You lose all continuity, identity, and veteran presence with a new coach (young at that); then yeah there will be struggles.
It’s easy to critique and hindsight but to restock this roster with the current talent level is a commendable job. Not to praise Dominik over the top but there is some deserved recognition on order.
June 9th, 2013 at 2:42 pm
Dungy is a MUST
June 9th, 2013 at 2:54 pm
The focus was on offense for the first time in Bucs history. Defense was going to be neglected in areas. Dominick did it right. Offense takes longer to gel. Offense then defense.
June 9th, 2013 at 3:08 pm
I love Dungy, don’t get me wrong, but the coaching Mt. Rushmore starts with Gruden. That’s not even debatable. Anybody else got a ring that I’m unaware of? And I can’t wait to see the first 23 year old that says he won with Dungy’s team. So right there is where King is wrong.
June 9th, 2013 at 3:24 pm
Have to disagree Hawaiian. Gruden won with Dungy’s defense. I’ll give him the offensive tweaks but that defense was what got us to and won us the superbowl. I’ll give Gruden credit for being the motivating power that put us over the top but Dungy put the pieces in place. That’s just my take on it. Dungy was good enough to get a ring with the Colts and I wish he’d have gotten one with Tampa.
June 9th, 2013 at 3:33 pm
So you think we would have had 3 defensive TD’s with Dungy? We had 9 in a season under Gruden. Many of the greats on the defense have always said that Gruden was the reason we won. Not to mention we put up a ton of points in the playoffs. Our offense was rolling big time. We all love Dungy, but it’s ridiculous to not give Gruden all the credit for the Super Bowl. If you are going to say he won with his players, it’s just as easy to give Wyche the credit, as he drafted the hall of famers.
June 9th, 2013 at 3:34 pm
And it wasn’t offensive tweaks, it was an offensive overhaul. Look at how many starters Gruden brought in. We completely changed schemes.
June 9th, 2013 at 3:58 pm
King would have been playing flag football if it wasn’t for Dungy helping a brother out. The thing I remember Dungy doing was not taking the Bucs to a Super Bowl when he had a good 5 year window. Good Guy? yea, Mount Rushmore? No.
June 9th, 2013 at 4:06 pm
Start with Gruden?!?!?!?!?!?!
@Hawaiin
Dude have immense respect for your posts but man you really caught me off guard.
His 1 great season and obviously SuperBowl def gets him in the coaching MR but to say that he is first to belong there I just can really grasp how he trumps all of Dungy’s accomplishments and historical impact he had on this team.
I do give Gruden the credit for the SB but IMO i just don’t believe he would have had the that spectacular season without the stepping stones/foundation that Dungy provided.
June 9th, 2013 at 4:07 pm
Dear Mr Burger King,
For future clarification, if words are coming out of your mouth, you are putting pen to paper, typing on a keyboard or just processing a thought, YOU ARE WRONG!!! You may think you are correct and smart but you wrong about that too.
Regards,
Tampa Fans
————————
It’s amazing the guy has enough time to flap his gums spouting his moronic opinion considering how much time he must spend per day shoveling food into his mouth.
June 9th, 2013 at 4:07 pm
can’t*
June 9th, 2013 at 4:07 pm
Dungy is number one all time Buc in my book.
Wouldn’t likely be any Bucs without Tony making playoffs in 97, setting up the vote.
Glazer boys were making a point of flying around in helicopters looking for places to move.
Before tony laughing stock considered worst professional sports franchise ever. With Tony many playoff appearances and one of the best defensive runs in league history. Huge part of super bowl team.
I don’t see how its even arguable.
June 9th, 2013 at 4:10 pm
And i’m sorry Mr. King (I will respect you as a person/man/fan and not take jabs at you) but man YOU ARE WRONG about Dom.
Right about Dungy 🙂
June 9th, 2013 at 4:12 pm
I would make an argument for Kiffin being somewhere up there as well as far as coaching impact on our Bucs,
June 9th, 2013 at 4:23 pm
@MarineBucsFan,
I don’t know of events going on but if you call Bucs ticket office number and ask for x2505. Tell Davi your situation and he’ll probably get you a tour of 1Buc and maybe meet a few of the players. He can also tell you if any events are coming up. Semper-Fi Bro and thanks.
June 9th, 2013 at 4:32 pm
Classy move BMA, I didnt even see his post :/
What BMA said 😉
June 9th, 2013 at 4:43 pm
I vote for “Duden” to go into the Coach Mount Rushmore first 🙂 haha
June 9th, 2013 at 4:44 pm
Good to see the comment section gets on Burger King’s nerves.
Most of my comments about why you’re wrong are said above, but mostly I would point to Warren Sapp on the Greatest Game say that Dungy needed to be fired because he did not and would not hold the offense accountable. That’s where you show your bias, Sapp and other Bucs greats have all the respect in the world for Tony Dungy but realized his limitations on taking the Bucs to the next level. Regardless of whether it worked out for him in the long term, Gruden did just that and got the Bucs the Superbowl win that group of players needed.
The 85 Bears defense only won one Superbowl and here is Burger King saying that the Bucs would have won three if they just wouldnt have fired Dungy. Ha! What a laughably ridiculous (and biased) statement, I would be wiling to bet Shaun King is the only former Buc of that era who holds that opinion.
June 9th, 2013 at 6:22 pm
We just disagree Hawaiian. I say without Dungy’s foundation Gruden has no ring. It would be like saying if we have a new GM next year and he brings in Drew Brees and we win the superbowl that Dom had nothing to do with it. This team has the foundation laid. The talent is there.
Do you think if Gruden would have canned Monty Kiffen we would have won the Super Bowl? C’mon. I said I give Gruden some of the credit but the lion’s share goes to Dungy.
June 9th, 2013 at 6:25 pm
Cody says:
“I doubt King will ever admit it but it has to be some underlying hate somewhere when it come to Dominic because it’s pretty obvious he has a personal vendetta”
When Dom was the Director of Pro Personnel, he scouted Chris Simms, and Bruce Allen drafted him with the intent on him being our future QB. The following year, King was a free agent, and Dominik was involved (as well as Allen) in contract negotiations, and they let King go.
June 9th, 2013 at 6:26 pm
Eric Says:
“Dungy is number one all time Buc in my book.”
I agree. Gruden would never have sniffed the Superbowl without the team that Dungy built. Sure, Gruden challenged the defense to score 9 TDs, but they never would have done it without the turn-around Dungy provided for the Bucs.
Dungy was the best coach in Buccaneers history, up until present day. Schiano may turn out to be better. We’ll have to wait and see. But people seem to forget that the “Yucs” were a joke until they turned into the “Bucs” under Dungy.
June 9th, 2013 at 6:31 pm
But yeah, Shaun McBurgerKing’s jabs at Dom are obviously very personal. So he’s using his big mouth and the NBC platform to be the petty little (fat) man, while Dom is taking the high road, not acknowledging this has-been, or never-was.
June 9th, 2013 at 6:31 pm
Sooner or later, the Pats will be knocked off their perch as the best team in the NFL (which they are having won so many Superbowls most recently. They may have a down year here and there, but they have remained the best. The Colts were right up there for years.
But sooner or later, the Pats will fall and a team or two will become the newly crowned best. I’m hoping Schiano can lead this team to the top.
June 9th, 2013 at 6:43 pm
Dungy was a good coach, but he wasnt a complete coach. Dont get me wrong, I love the guy. But he was tough on his D, and too soft with the offense. He gave Dilfer way too many chances, and could never find the right balance between offense and defense. If a coach puts all of the teams resources and money into one side of the ball, only to have 2nd and 3rd string quality players on offense, thats on management.
Chucky won because he knew how to light a fire under the offenses asses, and because we retained Kiffin & Co. But his own hiring, with the loss of crucial draft picks, prevented him from building the team he wanted. Besides, the previous team he built was right there with us in San Diego.
So between the two, I say its a draw.
June 9th, 2013 at 7:08 pm
Chucky was an outstanding coach, both here and in Oakland.
But the way I look at it we might have won a super bowl without Jon, but no chance we would have won it without Tony.
But hell I’m just glad we won it!
Love both those guys.
June 9th, 2013 at 7:10 pm
@TTC “So between the two, I say its a draw.”
Hence my coined name “Dunden”
Dungy + Gruden lol
June 9th, 2013 at 7:42 pm
They should make a movie about the two of them and call it ‘Grudy’.
June 9th, 2013 at 8:35 pm
This is great, a comparison of two great coaches and which one deserves credit for the big win. It all makes sense yet few make mention of the GM’s for the two eras and where credit belongs there. And yet this thread is King’s indictment of our current GM. So is it coach or is it GM? Which Coach or which GM? It’s really all of the above and a total team effort including Ownership. All coaches have a say on personnel but the GM signs the players.
If I have one criticism of Dungy it’s that he only won a single Lombardi with the best QB ever to play the game. He also lost one Superbowl to the Saints in a game that he was completely out coached by Sean Payton.
Gruden did bring offense to the 02′ Bucs but after that he proved to be one of the worst Talent evaluators ever. He surely influenced Allen and over the next 5 years, they destroyed this franchise with horrible choices and decisions. Jon also would get pass happy when he was running the ball down opponent’s throats.
I think both coaches deserved to be fired when they were. Both had plenty of chances and plenty of opportunities. Neither of them deserve to be in the top 4 of Buc Greatness. Top 10 yes, but not top 4. Players make the plays, not the Coaches.
June 9th, 2013 at 8:53 pm
@Bobby
jajajajajajajaja that was pretty funny
June 9th, 2013 at 9:03 pm
To be fair to Dungy
“The best QB ever to play the game” has only ever won 1 Lombardi himself jeje 😉
Kidding but really no other coach has had luck getting a Lombardi with him before or after Dungy, so I think that says a little. Just my thought though haha.
June 9th, 2013 at 9:16 pm
Thanks BigMacAttack i will give it a shot!
June 10th, 2013 at 1:29 am
@MarineBucsFan,
Thank you for your service. Semper Fi!
June 10th, 2013 at 4:51 am
Gruden won the most games in Bus history, and a Super Bowl. He won the division with his own guys (practically no one from the Dungy area). Its well known that the team he put together was a result of the owners not being willing to spend money. He did the best he could with what he had, and he was able to be quite successful. It was time for him to be fired, but that time comes for pretty much every coach. That doesn’t mean he was a bad coach, but his time was just up.
And yes, he was successful on defense because he let Kiffin do his job. One of the most important aspects of a coach’s job is to find the right guys and know how to manage people. He did that, so he gets the credit. Bottom line is there is a statue of only one coach sitting in One Buc Place. That tells you all you need to know. No matter what argument anyone makes, that fact doesn’t change. So he’s got the most wins, the only championship, and a statue. End of discussion. (And I’m a much bigger Dungy fan that Gruden fan, but facts are facts)
June 10th, 2013 at 6:13 am
Why no love for Sam Wyche to be on the Buccaneers Mt. Rushmore? We all seem to believe Dungy built the defense that was the backbone of the team that Gruden guided to the Super Bowl. But it was Sam “Wacky” Wyche who drafted Lynch, Sapp and Brooks. Seems to me that that trio, along with Wyche F/A signee Hardy Nickerson, had a lot to do with changing the losing culture. If you’re going to claim Gruden won the championship with Dungy’s team then take it back a step further to be totally honest.
June 10th, 2013 at 8:10 am
Scubog,
you make a very good point…Wyche is responsible for bringing in what would be the Cornerstones of Tampas vaunted Defense…However, the reason why I think Dungy has to be on Bucs Mt. Rushmore is because of how he was able to “permanently” change the culture here in Tampa Bay…Franchise history could be very different had Dungy never coached here…Simply put, Dungy set the standard for winning here…What’s always gonna hurt Dungy in these types of arguments is the terrible offenses we fielded during those years…But never the less, Dungy is the guy who got the ship turned around and heading in the right direction and for that reason Dungy will always be my favorite Bucs coach of all time…