Schiano: Mike Glennon Can Start If Needed
May 19th, 2013
Joe sees that the story linked below has gone viral on the interwebs today after good guy Dan Pompei of the Chicago Tribune got a hold of Greg Schiano, who said rookie QB Mike Glennon could start for the Bucs this year.
But Schiano qualified his statement saying, “If he’s needed.”
Translation? Glennon starts if Freeman gets hurt or is Trent Dilfer-like miserable beyond words, which no one really expects, as Pompei wrote for National Football Post.
Schiano, who also recruited Flacco years ago, sees the comparisons. “Their body types are similar,” he said. “Joe is probably a little more mobile. Both are kind of deadpan guys, not screamers. They are kind of flat line that way, but in a good way. Intense competitors, both of them. Glennon has a heck of a lot of playing and production to do before he can compare to Joe in that way, but coming out of college there are some similarities.”
What will matter for Glennon moving forward isn’t how he compares to Flacco. It’s how he compares to Freeman. No one expects Glennon to beat out Freeman this year. But it’s not out of the question.
Schiano said he believes Glennon “can play quickly” if he is needed. “But our situation will be only if he’s needed,” he said. “Or if he wins the job. Look, I’m not against that. We have a starting quarterback. It’s not like we’re looking to find a starter. But competition is competition. Mike Glennon is a fierce competitor. I knew that when he was coming out of high school. Now being able to work with him a little, you can see it on the practice field.”
It’s the final paragraph (the third-last paragraph of the story) of the quote above that has many abuzz on the interwebs. Even Pompei knows that Freeman will be the starter this year, barring injury or a complete and total meltdown by Freeman.
Look, the absolute best chance for the Bucs to have a winning season much less a playoff appearance is for Freeman to shine. He has all the toys he needs. It is now in his lap; no more excuses, no more pointing to bloated stats. Win games. Now. Period.
If the Bucs rely on Glennon this season, it’s a very good bet the Bucs are in a world of trouble.
May 19th, 2013 at 3:25 pm
Joe, I have been with you this far in reference to Free being our starter. I believe he should be and I believe he will. But NFL head coaches think very carefully about what they say. This to me screams that Schiano is not writing off Glennon winning a job this offseason. To do a 180 from “Free will start” to then say that he isn’t opposed to playing Glennon isn’t just off the cuff banter, it isn’t just lighting a fire under Free, it’s putting Free on notice. Show up to play in camp or you will find yourself holding the clipboard.
May 19th, 2013 at 3:33 pm
Sombrero:
Not just put Freeman on notice — Joe believes if drafting a quarterback in the third round isn’t “notice,” not sure what would be — but it’s also propping up Glennon as if to say, “Look, you may be our starter so bust your arse in practice and prepare like a starter.” If Schiano was to say, “No way Glennon will ever start,” well, that doesn’t do much to motivate Glennon.
May 19th, 2013 at 3:38 pm
“If the Bucs have to rely on Glennon this season, it’s a very good bet the Bucs are in a world of trouble.”
Not just the Bucs, but the alleged “rock star” would be in a world of trouble as well!
May 19th, 2013 at 3:40 pm
Glennon will be a better NFL QB than Freeman. Period.
May 19th, 2013 at 3:51 pm
I’ve said it before but it bares repeating again after this posting by Joe, this is going to be one of the most interesting Buccaneer training camps. Real competition, real jobs won or lost and like it or not; no nonsense practice and instruction. It’s time to get serious!
May 19th, 2013 at 3:56 pm
Look, the absolute best chance for the Bucs to have a winning season much less a playoff appearance is for Freeman to shine. He has all the toys he needs. It is now in his lap; no more excuses, no more pointing to bloated stats. Win games. Now. Period.
———————————————————–
This is what I have been trying to say. He can put up all the numbers he wants but at the end of the day we lose, it means nothing. JUST WIN!!
May 19th, 2013 at 4:00 pm
@Snook – If he gets his shot with us then I hope you are right. Im not sure why fans are so down on Glennon as compared to Free. It’s not as if he has been a world beater for us. He’s looked great and hes looked terrible. Inconsistency kills you in the NFL and not many players if any have been as inconsistent as Free. So I think Free gives us the best chance to win but, I wouldn’t be surprised if I was wrong.
@Vic66 – I agree 100%. Not only at the QB position but WR after Williams and V-Jax is wide open in my opinion. SLB doesn’t have a definite starter yet. A lot of potential on the back end of our CB’s with three undrafted guys that actually look relatively good. Tight end, NT, and returner are also battles to watch. And watching reports on Gholston, a guy with big time potential. Really interesting training camp this year.
May 19th, 2013 at 4:06 pm
I’m a huge Freeman supporter, but more so a Bucs fan. As much as I think Freeman will monumentally improve and earn an extension, if Glennon turns out better, I’m all for it.
That said, if Glennon is starting – something went wrong somewhere in all liklihood…at least this year. Preseason will be very, very telling.
May 19th, 2013 at 4:08 pm
“Not just the Bucs, but the alleged “rock star” would be in a world of trouble as well!”
Keep hoping, but not likely. Dom is getting this team in position for a deep playoff run. You can ‘if’ this upcoming season to death imagining ways for the Bucs to fail, but the truth is the team is vastly improved where it was needed the most. Several other areas have pro bowl and quality starters returning from injury. This looks to be a fun season.
May 19th, 2013 at 4:09 pm
Methinks Coach is playing head-games with Josh a bit, with these statements.
May 19th, 2013 at 4:21 pm
Lightning:
Not really. Remember, it was Raheem who pushed hard for Dominik to draft Freeman.
May 19th, 2013 at 4:22 pm
Even if this sounds like a conspiracy theory, my gut tells me Schiano is itching to play Glennon…..just as he was itching to ship Blount out the door. For the record…I like Freeman and I hope he can shove it in Schiano’s face a bit with a great season.
May 19th, 2013 at 4:22 pm
Mike J:
Not the only one.
May 19th, 2013 at 4:27 pm
@Joe
With OTAs starting tomorrow, will Glennon and Banks be allowed to participate since they havent signed their contracts yet?
May 19th, 2013 at 4:34 pm
@CouchFan – They can participate in OTAs as part of the labor agreement
May 19th, 2013 at 4:41 pm
I have a bad feeling this will blow up in everyone’s face.
May 19th, 2013 at 4:46 pm
I’d say whoever proves to be the best QB is our best hope for the playoffs this season. Glennon is frequently compared to both Matt Ryan and Joe Flacco, and both of those guys led their teams to the playoffs in their rookie seasons. Obviously, I realize Glennon isn’t considered to be as polished as those two were coming out, or he wouldn’t have dropped to the third round.
On the other hand, three pro-bowlers on the o-line, a couple of big, physical receivers like VJax and Williams, and a dual-threat weapon like Doug Martin will do a lot more for Glennon’s rapid development than the saloon-door o-line and butterfingered receivers he had at NC State.
Glennon has the sharps to pick up the offense very quickly. If he tears it up in TC and preseason, and if Freeman were to show little or no progression from last year (or worse, regression), then I would have no problem with Schiano wanting to get Glennon on the field as soon as possible.
May 19th, 2013 at 4:52 pm
Couch:
Yes. They’ve already participated in rookie mini camp a few weeks ago. Just can’t report for training camp unless signed.
May 19th, 2013 at 4:53 pm
Stranger may be right, am old fashion QB contraversy in the making. I am not sure how any of you guys can say that Glennon will be a better NFL QB, when he has not even played a preseason game.
May 19th, 2013 at 4:55 pm
@Illuminati – excellent point at the end there. I wonder if the fact that Glennon impressed so much during rookie OTA’s at how much information he could process and retain had any bearing on the sudden 180 Schiano did in reference to the way he addressed the media on the QB topic.
I wonder if he was just surprised with Glennon’s mental game and now actually thinks hes capable of being up to speed by seasons start as opposed to two weeks ago.
May 19th, 2013 at 4:59 pm
“Glennon will be a better NFL QB than Freeman. Period.” – snook
I think Glennon is a better prospect coming out than Freeman was. If it is in fact an honest competiton I coud see Glennon catch up to Freeman pretty quickly. I agree with Joe that our best chance to win early is probably with Freeman, but I think Glennon is Schiano’s future QB.
Freeman has his moments, but it just doesn’t ever seem to fully click or him and there just doesn’t seem to be that killer instinct that you want to see in your frachise guy. Reminds me way too much of Daunte Culpepper sometimes.
May 19th, 2013 at 5:00 pm
@Bigsombrero
I dont think there was any 180. I believe the plan has been the same all along. Draft Glennon, let him compete in a fair competition with Freeman (which Free being the vet should win) and may the best man win. If Glennon out plays Freeman going into the season, personally I think that speaks volumes about Free more so than Glennon… but if Free is as good as most think he is, this should no competition whatsoever for him.
May 19th, 2013 at 5:01 pm
Or maybe he does not want to say we have no plan if Freeman goes down. Maybe he wants to assure everyone that Dan O is not going to see the field. These statements do not really tip his hand in any direction, we may not even be seeing the entire quotes.
May 19th, 2013 at 5:05 pm
Gotbbucs…It seems NFL teams disagree, Free was a first round draft pick, and if you think he would have made it to the 2nd or 3rd if Tampa did not pick him I would have to disagree…based on other teams views of him as well. I say may the best man win, but Glennen is still an unknown. Joe keeps referencing Dilfer, who was a huge prospect coming out of college, as was Vinnie, etc, etc, etc.
May 19th, 2013 at 5:11 pm
@Couch – I agree that was probably the Bucs plan all around. When I say 180 I mean in reference to the way Schiano addressed the media about the situation. It was cut and dry at first, Free is our QB. Now, the organizations latest comments after the rookie OTA’s are less definitive and that has meaning in my opinion. Coaches and GM’s know how to talk to the media. They think out and plan what they are going to say. These comments just make it all the more clear, in my opinion, that Free is in serious jeopardy of losing his job.
May 19th, 2013 at 5:16 pm
@Bigsombrero
I dont think he’s in any more jeopardy now than he was when we drafted Glennon, BUT if that is the case, that can only mean good things for Tampa. Everyone keeps saying if Glennon plays were in big trouble but im not so sure about that… It’s not like we’ve won a whole lot of games with Freeman so far. Either way the best man we’ll be starting.. Cant wait!
May 19th, 2013 at 5:17 pm
“Or if he wins the job. Look, I’m not against that.” – Greg Schiano.
WOOOOOW!!!
May 19th, 2013 at 5:20 pm
Jerry Goldstein…….redux…endless loop…
May 19th, 2013 at 5:26 pm
I guess D. Revis is the guy who got the big QB contract this offseason… not J Free.
Looks like we all are seeing the cards with J Free’s contract-less extension now.
That’s a big savings not having to pay J Free.
Again, SMART and SAVVY move Rockstar! 😉
Papa Glazer would be proud of you and your proven penny pinchen ways.
This will be a fun ride to say the least… (cracks open another beer).
May 19th, 2013 at 5:27 pm
The sad thing is if the Bucs do not win, even if it is the defense that loses the majority of games, and they send Free packing, he will go somwhere else with a defense and stable coaching and win. We will have a 3rd round draft pick that may or may not be the answer. Joe and others keep saying stats don’t matter, but they dio since this is a team sport. Freeman did not lose all those games by himself, and it is clear to most that the defense was really the problem.
May 19th, 2013 at 5:28 pm
And we will be starting over again…
May 19th, 2013 at 5:35 pm
I just don’t see Glennon winning the job in pre-season. Freeman has a year in this system and a chemistry with his receivers as well as being familiar with the timing on the routes. Now, that doesn’t mean that Glennon couldn’t develop and push Freeman by the end of the season and if that happens I look for them to go with Glennon and put Josh on the trading block next year.
If Glennon can develop that quickly and show the ability to start then why stay with Freeman who has struggled for 4 years if he can’t get over the top this year? Next year is a deep QB class and they can draft a backup for Glennon or bring in a FA vet.
May 19th, 2013 at 5:39 pm
“And we will be starting over again…”
I look at it as, if the Bucs make the mistake and sign him to a crippling deal, then that will be what puts us on the path of despair.
If they can just let him walk, groom Glennon this season to be ready for next year and then go ahead and draft another 3rd round QB next year, they will have saved themselves 75 million dollars.
We should keep the money for playmaking, pro bowler, best of breed free agents rather than tie it up in an inconsistent bottom 20 QB.
Freeman has always been ranked below 15th in the league, year in and year out. You don’t drop 75 million on a guy who is worse than Tony Romo.
Come on MAAAAAANNNNN.
May 19th, 2013 at 5:41 pm
The defense is a majority of the problem. I dont think anyone denies that. But Free has not ever lit the NFL on fire on a consistant basis. He has glaring flaws in his game and he is replaceable. Thats not to say Glennon is the answer, but Freeman is not so good that a competent rookie can’t come in and beat him out…. I wish I knew why when we talk about Freeman that most try to change the subject to the defense as an excuse instead of staying on point.
And I disagree that if Free were to walk, that “we will be starting all over again”. The roster is pretty much filled in nicely even if Free were to walk next year. Our team would be set up nicely for the next QB, whoever that may be.
May 19th, 2013 at 5:42 pm
I can imagine what the talk would be if we didn’t draft a QB this year….what kind of shape would we be in if Freeman got hurt or if he underperformed.
Drafting Glennon was a smart move…either we get a cheap backup or cheap starter.
I think that Freeman will rise to the occaision. Most of this talk is to show confidence in Glennon to get him to perform as if he could start. That also has the added effect of motivating Freeman to be his absolute best.
Our defense coupled with our running game may be good enough to suceed.
May 19th, 2013 at 5:43 pm
Seriously people…. look at the truth. We all heard the hype of every player drafted in every round, what a star they will be. Don’t be fooled. Let’s look at a few things here.
In the past 10 years, the 3rd overall QB drafted was:
2012: Tannehill – 12 TD, 13 INT. Jury’s still out, but not impressed.
2011: Gabbert – 21 TD, 17 INT, Again, not impressed
2010: Clausen – 3 TD, 9 INT, they drafted Newton to replace him
2009: FREEMAN, I’ll get to him later.
2008: Brohm – never started a game
2007: Kolb – 28 TD, 25 INT, fighting for a spot on a roster, potential backup
2006: Cutler – Middle of the road QB, on his 2nd team
2005: Campbell – 3 teams, trying to find spot somewhere
2004: Rothleisberger – Finally found a good one, but in the 1st round
2003: Boller – career backup.
Ok, let’s look at 3rd round QBs…
2012 – Russell Wilson: Good year, jury still out
Nick Foles – Started games for injured starter, fighting for spot
2011: Ryan Mallett – Backup
2010: Colt McCoy – Backup (if he keeps a roster spot)
2009: None: And nobody worth of mention after the 3rd either.
2008: O’Connell – Who? I don’t think he’s even on a roster anymore
2007: Trent Edwards – started in Buffalo, beat out by Fitzpatrick, 3rd team
2006: Whitehurst and Croyle – Clipboard holders and camp fodder
2005: Walter and Greene – You’ll never see these guys… EVER
2004: Matt Schaub: 3 years backing up Vick, with Houston. Mediocre starter
2003: Ragone and Simms – enough said… seriously?
Knowing the jury is still out on anyone drafter last year (RGIII injury, etc), let’s look at ANY QB drafted in recent history.
Cam Newton – set rookie records, the flopped 2nd year.
Jake Locker – nothing
Christian Ponder – below average with a good D and run game
Andy Dalton – Some success, I’ll give him credit.
Colin Kaepernick – 1/2 a season and Super Bowl apperance. Let’s say Jury is still out
Sam Bradford – No winning record, no playoff appearances
Stafford and Sanchez – I’ll take a look at these w/ Free later
Tim Tebow – offered backkup job in ARENA league
Matt Ryan and Joe Flacco – credit where credit is due…but drafted very high
Chad Henne – nothing special
Jamarcus Russell, Brady Quinn, John Beck, Drew Stanton – ???? yeah, right
Vince Young, Matt Leinart, Kellen Clemens, Tavaris Jackson – getting the idea yet?
Alex Smith, Aaron Rodgers, Jason Campbell – Well, one is pretty good.
Get the idea yet? Let’s consider Glennon against anyone drafted at his point or even higher. It wouldn’t take much to beat out most of them. Many have been starters, but few have had success. Freeman beats out the majority of these guys hands down. Consistent or not. Looking at this, it’s hard to think that Glennon will ever see the light of day on Sundays.
I can do direct comparisons of Freeman with any of these. We’d know he’s less than Rodgers, Ryan and Flacco. No doubt about that. But what about the others?
Freeman has played 57 games, more than Stafford, less than Sanchez. Yet, Free has more TDs and fewer INTs than Sanchez. Stafford suffered injury the first couple years (although I’ve heard that if you are injured your first two years, you’re a bust… see GMC). Stafford has had one good year in 4, I’ve also heard that makes a player “inconsistent”. Stafford was named NFL Top 100 this year, because “someone” had to throw to Megatron. Look closer though and you’ll see Stafford had 20 TD, 17 INT, and a worse record than Freeman (who had a horrible defense). Freeman had 27 TD, 17 INT and a better QB rating than Stafford.
So, Freeman has done better than a majority of QBs drafted in the past 10 years, but he’s about to be ousted by a 3rd round pick, in a horrible QB draft class, because we can find the next Russell Wilson or Tom Brady in the mid to late rounds like SOOOOO many teams have over the past 10 years. Do you people really think this 3rd round pick is SO good he can beat out (even an inconsistent) Freeman, when so many QBs picked higher, lower, the same as Glennon can barely even find jobs in the NFL??? Maybe one of these days fans will wake up and realize that not every draft choice made by the team is gonna be a super-star (like so many thought Smith was gonna be last year… or Goode, Tandy, Gaitor, etc.) Glennon is a backup. He might be better than Orlovsky (5th rnd, 2005). He might fit our system better than Orlovsky. He’s not more athletic than Freeman.
Many of you are hoping for a miracle. The 3rd round QB stepping in and being more consistent and a better QB than the best QB taken in the 2009 draft. Statistically, that’s true, the best QB taken in the 2009 draft. Stafford may beat him out in the long run, but so far Freeman has done more. More than Sam Bradford, more than so many drafted in the past 10 years. We all want that “franchise” guy. The guy that can throw a team on his back and win the Super Bowl, despite any other flaws a team may have…. but Peyton Manning and Tom Brady only come along on a very rare occasion. In fact, only Rodgers, and possibly Eli and Big Ben have made the cut in the past 10 years. Brees, Brady, and Peyton were all before that. You want Freeman out? Fine, but be careful what you wish for. It’s not always easy to replace what you have with something better.
May 19th, 2013 at 5:45 pm
every backup QB in the NFL is competing with the starting QB to become the new starter, even Brady’s backup. so its always going to be Freeman vs Glennon while they are together, even if Freeman were to win MVP (thats an exaggerated example to prove a point obviously). the only thing is that the backups usually got nothing on the starters, so we are just going to have to wait and see if Glennons got what it takes. as it stands right now though its irrational/ illogical to assume that Glennon will de-throne Freeman this season, so I dont expect to see him on the field whatsoever, with the ONLY exception being an injury to Freeman.
May 19th, 2013 at 5:50 pm
World of trouble is SOP at One Buc Place since 08.
Little things like ten, seven, and five game losing streaks; no playoffs; franchise records for defensive futility; narrowly miss 100 year old league futility record, etc. etc. etc.
Trouble is a bit of an understatement, like the final scene in Butch Cassidy and the Sundance kid.
But who knows maybe we will rise above with a HC from Rutgers and a third round ACC QB in a weak QB class. Just saw a pig fly by. Drew Brees was riding him.
May 19th, 2013 at 5:53 pm
Fact. Freeman is a Buc for one more year. Nothing else is for sure. If Freeman plays well and the Bucs have a winning record, the Bucs either franchise him or negotiate a new deal with his agent. Freeman may want to play elsewhere and the Bucs have a young, viable, hand picked Schiano endorsed qb. I’m happy having Glennon ride the bench and learn this year. Mike may be the eventual starter. Pray that Freeman earns a huge raise. If not, Mike will start the last few games and Freeman will be gone. I cannot wait for football season to see how the Bucs do across the board, not just with Freeman. Go Bucs!
May 19th, 2013 at 6:00 pm
Where is it known that Glennon is “viable”? Because he fits the “system”? What if that “system” is also changed next year? How many 3rd QB overall draft picks, or 3rd round or later QBs in the past 10 years have been “viable”? 3? 4? Those are pretty scary odds for a guy that’s never played a down in the NFL. I think I’ll hold off on calling any 3rd round, 3rd QB overall draft pick “viable” until he’s surpassed the starter and winning games in the NFL. Right now, he’s a scrub working for a job.
May 19th, 2013 at 6:04 pm
YOU can hold off calling him ‘viable’ but apparently Schiano isn’t….
May 19th, 2013 at 6:05 pm
I love the idiots who bang Glennon because he came out of the ACC. Good one. Matt Ryan came out of the ACC. Russell Wilson played there. Then went to the weak Big 10. RGIII came out of the Big 12. Luck played at Stanford.
We picked up Freeman from KANSAS STATE – a program that produces NO ONE on a regular basis. And he came as a recommendation from the worst head coach in Buccaneers history. He’s the last bag of Raheem garbage waiting on the curb.
Yes, Glennon is no Tom Brady, but when you compare him to our Michael Jackson wannabe, he’s the same, if not, better.
May 19th, 2013 at 6:07 pm
Freeman will be back up QB to RGIII in Washington in 2014. The Redskins love our garbage. And you’ll never hear from him again. And these people enamored with him will be no where to be found.
I can’t wait.
May 19th, 2013 at 6:10 pm
@BamBamBuc – Should have saved your time and energy. You’re premise is ridiculous. Since not many 3rd rd QB’s succeed, Glennon probably wont either? I’m guessing there isn’t a lot of science behind that hypothesis.
Also, spin the stats all you want, anyone with at least 1 working eye can look at Free’s past performances and see that he isn’t getting it done. As others have pointed out, Free hasn’t been winning us any games either so i’m not sure how anyone could suggest we can’t win without him. Was the defense bad last year? Yep. Does that mean Free wasn’t bad as well? Nope.
If you have to revert to complex, non-sensical draft connections and comparing your QB to Sanchez and Stafford, and blaming the defense (I am not sure some of you know this or not but the defense isn’t actually on the field when Free throws his interceptions or misses open recievers) to prove he isn’t playing poorly, he is probably playing poorly.
May 19th, 2013 at 6:11 pm
That one gets me everytime. Free throws a pick and people blame it on Anthony Gaitor. Hahaha, unreal.
May 19th, 2013 at 6:12 pm
Congratulation to BamBamBuc on THE longest post in JBF history!
I took not one, but two naps, while reading it. ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ
May 19th, 2013 at 6:13 pm
Good point about the conferences Snook. Heres another thing a lot of Freeman supporters dont want to talk about. Free only had 1 winning season out of 3 in college. Up to this point he’s only had 1 winning season out of 4 in the pros. Theres a pattern there…. Glennon had winning seasons both years he was the starter. I think its safe to say we shouldnt put to much stock in there college careers…
May 19th, 2013 at 6:13 pm
Bam bam. Relax bro. I’m not saying Mike is our answer. I just don’t believe Freeman has the consistency to win crucial regular season, division, or playoff games. To beat Freeman is too easy for opposing defenses. He is a heck of a thrower when on target but misses way too many wide open receivers all over the field. I could just as easily see the Bucs trade for another starting qb if needed. I do know this. Schiano, like him or not, did not pick Freeman and I doubt he gambles much more on Freeman if he continues to have disastrous 4pick games with the season on the line. Schiano can gameplan and coach but he can’t fix Freeman’s critical mistakes. Lets hope Freeman gets the job done and proves me wrong. Go Bucs!
May 19th, 2013 at 6:14 pm
Best Freeman logic of the year:
“He’s better than Sanchez and probably not worse than Stafford.”
Gotta love Bucs fan….
May 19th, 2013 at 6:15 pm
Great point, Couch fan.
Freeman has never been a winner. Anywhere.
May 19th, 2013 at 6:26 pm
The Bucs are in trouble with Freeman. You can’t win with a QB with an IQ of 50. You can’t fix stupid.
May 19th, 2013 at 6:27 pm
@BAMBAM thanks for that informative post.
I like what coach Schiano just did. Nice way for coaches/management to have interesting angle to keep Buccaneer info out across the media spectrum. Hats off to Buccaneer organization.
May 19th, 2013 at 6:34 pm
Know what I think? I think BamBamBuc just pwned you all.
Bucs Fan #238 Says:
“I look at it as, if the Bucs make the mistake and sign him to a crippling deal, then that will be what puts us on the path of despair.”
It’s Culverhouse-style then?
I don’t mean offense, but thats just silly. Did giving a big contract to Peyton Manning cripple the Colts years ago? I think not.
Has Brady’s contract crippled the Pats? Nope.
QB is the one position that deserves money like that if it is earned. No…the contract that you should worry about is the one given to Revis. Assume for a moment the Freeman has a breakout, Eli year…or Big Ben type of year. He will have proven himself to be elite. The Revis contract could cause the Bucs cap issue in regard to keeping Josh in a year or two.
That’s why Dominick did such a great job with the contract. Next year he can draft a good CB in the second round and groom him to replace Revis the following year. We can then trade Revis for a first rounder and come out ahead of the game.
And that will free up a ton of cap money.
Regardless, Dominick is a master at creating space.
May 19th, 2013 at 6:36 pm
One thing is true… NO ONE who has never been to the play offs in 50+ games, who is in most years in the bottom portion of the league results-wise, should EVER get a 75 million dollar contract.
Freeman is OWED NOTHING because he has DONE NOTHING.
May 19th, 2013 at 6:40 pm
Btw…anyone remember the reports from last years rookie camp?
May 19th, 2013 at 6:46 pm
@Couch Fan @Snook
Those are actually terrible points. Some very good QBs have come out of poor systems while QBs that have been “winners” in college are notoriously bad. You can’t blame an individual player for being apart of teams that lack talent.
May 19th, 2013 at 6:48 pm
Did you really just try to compare Free’s contract situation to Manning and Bradys? C’mon man!!
Revis is without a doubt one of the very best at his position. He has earned every bit of that contract, he also has to work his butt off to get paid every bit of that money.
Even if Free has a great year this year. Thats 2 good years out of 5, would you really be comfortable paying him big money with the issues he has? I’d like to see him put it all together for at least 2 years straight before investing in him long term.
May 19th, 2013 at 6:53 pm
@Stranger – Name them. The QB’s that have had losing records in college that are starting in the NFL right now.
May 19th, 2013 at 6:56 pm
@ BamBam’
thanks for the very informative post. if theres one thing Ive learned on JBF is that its impossible to try and reason or talk any sense into the Freeman haters, your never going to win that argument. thats why Ive stopped trying.
May 19th, 2013 at 6:56 pm
@Stranger
What is so terrible about pointing out that someone has not won consistently anywhere they’ve been? My point was just a counter point to people trying to say Glennon wont be good because he played in the ACC. Freeman has a history of not winning, whether he had talent around him or not, he has not ever gotten it done consistently. And at the very last sentence i made it clear that we shouldnt put to much stock into the college stuff which i think is a great point. All that matters is from this point forward… I’m not gonna make any excuses for the guy, he has enough jock riders as it is.
May 19th, 2013 at 7:01 pm
I don’t think you’re getting the point, but that’s ok, I’m not worried about it. Fact is, NFL scouts are pretty good, and if a guy is worth a damn, he’s usually gone in the first round. Occasionally a guy slips through the cracks, but it’s rare. To think we got that guy this year is ridiculous. From what I’m hearing, our best bet would be to trade Freeman now, we might actually get something for him, then start Glennon, since he is the next “Russell Wilson” or Drew Brees. Just like Mike Smith was the next Warrick Dunn or Chris Johnson… sure.
May 19th, 2013 at 7:02 pm
It seems BamBamBuc has returned of late to bring his heavy-hitter A game.
May 19th, 2013 at 7:02 pm
Dont know about current players but Unitas had a seriously losing record in college.
May 19th, 2013 at 7:06 pm
He’s (Freeman) been inconsistent for 7-8 years now, dating back to KState so why do we all of a sudden believe this will change?
I agree with Joe that this means all is not well with the season but I have very low confidence that Freeman will take the next step toward consistancy.
I also agree that Glennon has more upside and has that QB displacement about him.
May 19th, 2013 at 7:12 pm
@BamBam
I dont think anyone expects Glennon to come in and be Wilson or anyone else. It’s more to do with the lack of confidence in Freeman than we expect Glennon to be great. We already know what we got with Freeman, most arent impressed, I think the infatuation with Glennon is that we dont know yet what we got in him… Just my opinion though.
May 19th, 2013 at 7:15 pm
@Architek
The same reason we believe Glennon can change, otherwise there’s no point in having either here. And no, Freeman will always have the highest ceiling of the two. What their realized potential will be is something only time can tell.
May 19th, 2013 at 7:37 pm
We’ve seen Freemans ceiling, its not all that impressive. Glennon may or may not have a higher ceiling or potential but until he plays we wont know for sure.
May 19th, 2013 at 7:51 pm
Draft position means nothing re player comparison. That would only be true if draftees always performed consistent with where they were drafted. nothing is less true.
How do Tom Brady and Ryan Leaf and JaMarcus Russell fit into your brilliant draft position = NFL productivity chart?
You CANT compare players in any way shape or form based upon their draft position in different drafts, its foolish and leads to illogical conclusions.
Schiano believed that Glennon was the best QB in this draft. He also felt very strongly that the pundits were undervaluing him (making teams nervous) and that Glennon was likely to be there in round 3, beyond that too risky.
In 09, nobody but Raheem Morris felt that the Bucs needed to trade up to get an inaccurrate, stock-falling Freeman by draft day. Freeman today resembles the same one from 2009, big arm and upside with too few wins and too much inconsistency.
Schiano is underwhelmed by Freeman thus far, Schiano has loved Glennon since he was in HS. Freeman’s experience gives him the clear edge but if the road continues to be bumpy in 2013, and if Glennon has a strong preseason and impresses Schiano – you will see a Bellichick (yank your #1 overall QB Bledsoe when first chance presents for a 6th round pick backup) or a Harbaugh (#1 overall Alex Smith for 2nd rounder Kapernick).
How do those two examples fit into your worthless draft position comparison spreadsheet analysis?
May 19th, 2013 at 7:54 pm
@Couch Fan
Freeman’s ceiling is that of a top 10 QB, potentially even elite. His ceiling is enough to get us into the playoffs with an average defense. His ceiling could possibly get us to the Super Bowl. If that’s not impressive, then I have no idea what you expect in a QB. And Freeman’s
May 19th, 2013 at 8:01 pm
@Thomas 2.2
Not true. Freeman was a considered a first round pick across the board of scouts. Some even thought the Jets would take him way higher, and if you remember, they Jets thought long and hard about it. Also, you can’t compare Glennon to Brady. The chances of repeating that is astronomically small.
Also, Alex Smith was and still is a bust.
May 19th, 2013 at 8:18 pm
Greg does seem to like this kid. And when he likes a player(muscle hamster), or doesn’t like one (Winslow, Blount), things seem to happen.
Free out, this kid in is not a move Schiano would be afraid of. And maybe a Lot faster than we think.
May 19th, 2013 at 8:19 pm
@Stranger… Freeman has ALL the tools… back then he HAD all the tools… problem is, he can’t win enough. He implodes in tough situations. We need a baller to win some games for us… not a baby who looks like he is on the verge of breaking down into a tantrum.
Freeman has all of the physical tools to play the QB position… but after 50+ games, he still hasn’t proven that he is a winner.
The guy has a great arm but never really follows through on throws… he STILL continually tosses aweful inaccurate passes… passes that should be routine at the NFL level.
May 19th, 2013 at 8:22 pm
Thomas,
The Patriots didn’t “yank” Bledsoe, Bledsoe was severely injured in a game (I believe against the Jets). He had no chance of returning to the starting lineup any time soon. It wasn’t until near the playoffs, when Bledsoe had healed that the Patriots were faced with the dilemma of bringing Bledsoe back or sticking with the surprisingly (at the time) successful QB in Brady. Alex Smith also wasn’t “yanked”. He had a concussion. He was out due to injury. It wasn’t until he was health and ready to play that Harbaugh had to make the decision of who to play. Interestingly, until the concussion, Smith was playing as one of the best QBs in the NFL. He had a 104.1 QB rating, 13 TD to 5 INT, 1700+ yards, a 6-2-1 record. That is after leading the 49ers to a 13-3 record the year before with a 90.1 rating. Smith was playing well, but Kaepernick is who Harbaugh wanted going forward.
To imply that Schiano should “yank” Freeman for Glennon is similar is incorrect, unless Freeman is the starter until injured (not due to poor play, or your example is worthless) and Glennon comes in to play better. While that is possible, there’s also the possibility that Glennon is more closely resembling Matt Cassell, who came in for an injured Brady, had one decent year, drew all sorts of interest from other teams as the “next Tom Brady”, went to the Chiefs and fell flat on his face. Or, possibly similar to Matt Flynn, who came in to a meaningless game to end the regular season, had one incredible game, went to the Seahawks and got beat out by a 3rd round pick (maybe because Flynn was really nothing more than a backup to begin with). Or a Kevin Kolb, who plays reasonably well in injury relief for the Eagles and falls flat as a starter. Maybe a Matt Schaub, who becomes an adequate starter in the NFL, but really does nothing spectacular and makes fans question if “he’s the guy”. I could go on, as there are MANY more instances of backup QBs having a decent game or two, becoming a starter, and immediately showing why they were a backup QB than there are of guys like Brady or Kaepernick (although I’m not ready to anoint Kaepernick with anything yet, he had a good half season in his second year… remember Glennon is a rookie still).
May 19th, 2013 at 8:27 pm
Stranger:
You and Morris/Dom are the only ones who fell for the fake Jets interest in Free-they drafted SANCHEZ with Free on the board! Lol
Trust me, I am not predicting Glennon will be Brady, I am comparing circumstances of a less than impressive First Rounder and a new Head Coach with a QB he drafted waiting in the wings. Glennon is not Brady, but neither is Freeman.
Free’s ceiling is high but so is his floor, he spends about 1/2 the time operating against both.
Schiano will take a lower ceiling that is met or exceeded 90+ % of the time.
Listen Free gets his chance this year to get a lot better/more consistent and win games and he will be the guy. Nobody knows if he will deliver or not, history says it will be a roller coaster and no playoffs
May 19th, 2013 at 8:28 pm
@Couch Fan
We have likely not seen Freeman’s ceiling. Many NFL QBs simply do not play their best football until they’re in their mid-20s. It often has more to do with cognitive development and maturity than just NFL experience. Of course, it’s possible that he won’t get any better or more consistent, but it’s still too early to make that call.
@Thomas 2.2
I agree that Schiano is not deeply connected to Freeman. Glennon is closer to Schiano’s “Buccaneer Man” vision than Freeman because Glennon is a stronger leader, Schiano has college recruiting ties to Glennon, and Glennon displays strong football intelligence where Freeman at times seems disengaged.
Also, Glennon can do everything Freeman does in the vertical passing game (even though Freeman has the stronger arm), and Glennon might prove more effective than Freeman on a lot of the short-to-intermediate routes. But, Glennon cannot extend plays with his legs the way that Freeman can, and does not yet have the benefit of Freeman’s experience. Freeman has also proven to be very durable, but Glennon never missed a college game due to injury either, despite his lanky frame.
Personally, I hope they both look great this year. Having two good QBs on the roster wouldn’t bother me one bit.
May 19th, 2013 at 8:29 pm
Bambam- in a post full of the clueless, you remain the voice of intelligence.
Freeman is better than 80% of the NFL starters.
Glennon isn’t viable or ” right for the system. He couldn’t impress against mediocre college competition- wont be better than mediocre here.
He’s a young backup- which we didn’t have. Josh Johnson part 2
Of course, most of the clueless here thought Johnson was our savior- til he played- lmao!!!
To think a poor college QB is somehow going to gain footwork, accuracy, composure in the pocket, and ATHLETISM against the best players in the world- it’s so dumb it’s mind boggling! And Joe keeps stoking the fire!! It’s funny -to a point.
Til you realize that some of these guys really believe it.
Then it just embarrasses you, at how little some of these guys know,.
May 19th, 2013 at 8:43 pm
@ Thomas
I was very thankful that you posted that arguement so I didn’t have to. You can’t compare draft position from year to year. It just doesn’t work. There will always be exceptions to the rule.
Nobody is calling Glennon a HOFer, because none of us has seen him play an NFL game, but I have seen all 50+ plus games in Freeman’s NFL career and I still don’t know what to think of him. Evidentally that’s the feeling in the Buccaneer’s organization as well or we wouldn’t be having this conversation.
I have no doubt that Freeman will carry on with his current path of dropping a beautiful stick pass on the sideline and follow it up by missing by a country mile on an easy 5 yard dump off pass that would have resulted in a huge 3rd down conversion. This tiger has shown his stripes many many times over.
May 19th, 2013 at 8:43 pm
@Capt. Tim
“Freeman is better than 80% of the NFL starters.”
So, you’re saying Freeman is a basically one the top five QBs in the league?
May 19th, 2013 at 8:43 pm
Capt.: Don’t know if I’d put Freeman in the “Top 20%”, but I would say, from what I’ve seen, he’d probably in the middle with about 15 starting QBs all about equal, some of whom have won Super Bowls, but I would still place in that middle range. Only about 6 or 7 QBs really hit that elite level, if that. We could easily say that Brady, Brees, Peyton Manning, and Rodgers all belong there. A case could be made for Eli Manning and Matt Ryan. After that, you get a bunch of guys with the “potential” or “ceiling” to be great, but none have really stepped out.
I’d also argue that Glennon played “mediocre” competition. NC State strength of schedule last year was listed as 64th out of 120, which may be mediocre and they finished 7-6. The year before, they were 80th out of 120 (well below mediocre) and only went 8-5. Of course, when Russell Wilson was the starter in 2010, they had the 33rd toughest schedule and he led them to a 9-4 record. So, Glennon with a mediocre to sub-mediocre schedule couldn’t come close to what Wilson did with a good schedule. SOS during Freeman’s tenure at K-State never dropped below 56th of 120. Just some interesting numbers.
May 19th, 2013 at 8:43 pm
Both Bledsoe and Smith were replaced as starters initially due to injury. Both were healthy enough to play later in the year but the coaches who drafted them stuck with their guys. The yank refers to the feeling expressed by both Bledsoe and Smith that when they were healthy and not given their jobs back – they considered it effectively being yanked when they felt like they were playing well.
Your Alex Smith stat argument supports my point, he was playing statistically well like Free sometimes does – but Harbaugh’s guy was ripening.
I am not implying that Schiano “yank” anyone. What I am saying is clear and inarguable: if Freeman doesn’t play better and circumstances present when Glennon is ready, you will see a Brady or Kapernick. If Free plays well, Glennon is Ryan Mallett, an interesting prospect and backup.
The nfl draft is art not science, circumstances with players when they arrive means much more: I.e. coaching changes, scheme changes, injuries, opportunities, luck etc all have much more to do with player success than draft position.
Almost never are the best 10 players numbers 1-10, bad teams pick early often bc bad decision makers are making bad selections.
May 19th, 2013 at 8:47 pm
my 2 cents:
I Think is josh job to lose, but im all in in this competition deal, if he cant handle this, he will never have the poise to succeed in this league, fair and simple.
Glennon its an intriguing prospect and im in favor of him if is the guy Schiano wants, also, if there are flaws on his game, is not like a coach cant fix that…
to conclude this, im in favor of whoever wins this, after all, is the bucs who benefits from the better one, i will support any of them.
Ps: if glennon wins this for any reason, im not complain if we make a trade move for him
May 19th, 2013 at 8:49 pm
@Bucs Fan #238
Teams he’s been on probably has something to do with it. You know, like the godawful pass defense we had last year that surrendered games with a minute or two on the clock?
@Thomas 2.2
It’s too early for conspiracy theories. Joe even wrote a nice article about it, maybe you should stroll down memory lane. And Bledsoe wasn’t less impressive, he was past his prime and couldn’t stay healthy anymore. So that kind of comparison doesn’t exactly work.
May 19th, 2013 at 8:55 pm
Bledsoe was 28 when replaced by Brady. He played 7 more seasons and made a pro bowl after Brady replaced him. Know your facts
May 19th, 2013 at 8:58 pm
to be honest Im more interested in our starting SLB position rather than our backup QB position. who’s got the inside lead? is it one of our own guys or is one of the free agent pickups? are the bucs satisfied with naming one of those guys the starter? whats there role in the defense going to be? are the bucs thinking about maybe alternating players at the position like they’ve done in the past? ect…
Joe, I know that position is a bit of a mystery but any information would be great especially any concrete facts that you may know of.
May 19th, 2013 at 8:59 pm
Im dying to know who the starter is going to be.
May 19th, 2013 at 9:23 pm
How many teams in the NFL would view Freeman as a clear replacement starter? Oakland? Jacksonville? I am not sure that Minn, Cleve or Tenn would agree to a straight up deal (although Free has looked better than what their young QBs). Who else? Arizona. Palmer is up there in age but played well in Cincy.
May 19th, 2013 at 9:24 pm
I don’t even think Freeman is as good as Bledsoe once was.
Freeman is more like Vinny Testaverde… its gonna take him until he is 35 before he FINALLY figures it all out.
May 19th, 2013 at 9:24 pm
And besides, that picture of Mike Glennon dressed like Napoleon Dynamite is way cooler than Freeman as Michael Jackson.
May 19th, 2013 at 9:31 pm
Does anyone see what Schiano is doing, players he couldn’t land at Rutgers he is chasing with the Bucs. I guess it is a comfort level, but decency in HS does not always equate to greatness in the NFL. So I see at least one more draft with one his HS recruits
May 19th, 2013 at 9:37 pm
@ Andrew 1
You are really dying to know who the Sam LB is going to be? In today’s NFL it is a forgotten position. They barely play a quarter of the defensive snaps in any given week with all the sub packages that teams need to be in to defend the pass.
May 19th, 2013 at 9:56 pm
WHAT THA HELL…
@capt Tim,
Better than 80% of the starting QBs in the NFL….
BamBam has some points but that statement you made totally blew out this thread. I would take Andy Dalton, Luck, Newton, RG3, Wilson, Cutler, Stafford, need I keep going?
How can you say Freeman is better than playoff QBs? That’s absurd.
May 19th, 2013 at 10:06 pm
Um, ok not top 5. But top 12
I can think of twenty teams that would start him.
All the zombie squad can whine all they want.
I remember Byron left which, then Josh Johnson. Once Freeman started, it was like a miracle happened to the entire team. We believed we can beat anyone.
We never felt that way with Garcia, Leftwich, or Johnson. The only reason Brad Johnson won- was our defense.
The zombies aren’t smart enough(.) to remember how long we went without a QB capable of a fourth quarter comeback. If course, I doubt they are smart enough to wipe their butts.
We NEVER had a QB cable of winning games with a bad defense until Josh. He is our first Franchise QB we have EVER had.
It’s ludicrous to believe a college Qb as bad a Glennon could replace Leftwich. Or any NFL QB. With time, maybe he can” man up( lol) ” and be a good back up.
Time will tell. If Shiano starts him, it will only prove he belongs back in college
May 19th, 2013 at 10:10 pm
Here’s another reason I think Schiano is enamored with Glennon: He’s the type of QB that can quickly read the defense and exploit its weaknesses. Something Freeman has not always shown the ability to do. Glennon will get rattled and make bad decisions under pressure, but when he has good protection he will make the most advantageous throw.
May 19th, 2013 at 10:33 pm
Freeman’s ceiling is that of a top 10 QB, potentially even elite. His ceiling is enough to get us into the playoffs with an average defense. His ceiling could possibly get us to the Super Bowl. If that’s not impressive, then I have no idea what you expect in a QB. And Freeman’s
———————————————-
This is the NFL. You can say this about anyone. You cant measure someones ceiling, you have no idea what his ceiling is nor neither do I. But what we do know is that 4 years of him being a starter he has had 1 winning season and a whole lot of inconsistency. I dont see anything about his career so far that would suggest he has the moxi to get us to a super bowl… And if he continues to play like he has been we’ll be lucky to get to the playoffs… Screw his ceiling i want to see results in year 5.
May 19th, 2013 at 10:35 pm
Relax man it will play itself out stop wasting energy
May 19th, 2013 at 10:46 pm
@BamBamBuc
I, like many others have been on the fence about Freeman. THANK YOU for bringing me back to reality…
I’m now wondering whether Glennon would be able to stand the heat once NFL defenses acquired enough tape on him and proceeded to actually scheme against him. What intangibles does he have if his reads aren’t open while a 280lb+ D-lineman is hot on his tail approaching at NFL speed?
Only time will tell, but for now I think I’ll stick with Freeman…
May 19th, 2013 at 10:51 pm
@Illuminati
Glennon actually has trouble reading defenses at times. That’s one of his main weaknesses.
@Couch Fan
No, you can easily diagnose a player’s ceiling/potential from the physical measurables and skill set. That doesn’t mean every player can reach their potential. And both 2010 and 2012 showcases of Freeman played well enough to get us a playoff birth. An pass defense could have swung us like 4-5 games, so we wouldn’t need to be all that lucky really.
May 19th, 2013 at 10:53 pm
@couch,If Free is as good as most think he is. WHAT???? Where r u getting that most from LOL…
May 19th, 2013 at 11:02 pm
Andrew 1:
Dude, the Bucs haven’t even had their first OTA practice yet. It’s still May.
It is entirely possible the starting strongside linebacker isn’t even on the roster yet.
May 19th, 2013 at 11:04 pm
@Stranger
There we go again with “he played well enough”. No he didn’t play well enough because through 10 games we were 6 and 4 (even with that pathetic defense that you homers use as a crutch) and were thick in the playoff hunt until he began to stink it up and our season went down the drain… If he played well enough to get us into the playoffs… he would of gotten us in the playoffs…
@Grif
Lol read through the comments there are plenty of people who think Freeman is a stud franchise QB who can do know wrong, though they admit he needs to play with 21 other pro bowl caliber players to win games.
May 19th, 2013 at 11:43 pm
glennon could not carry Freeman’s jock at this point…its hilarious to see people so enamored with the New QB …Glennon has no idea how fast the Pro game is, and his ht works both ways when DB’s are looking and reading his eyes…. I find the Freeman haters funny.
May 19th, 2013 at 11:52 pm
@ gotbucs
yea I am really dying to know who is going to be the starting SLB manly because LB is my favorite position, so its not forgotten by everyone. yea sure, SLB probably only plays a quarter of the defensive snaps but Id rather talk about a guy who is going to play a quarter of the snaps as opposed to talking about a backup QB who is never going to see the field.
May 20th, 2013 at 12:26 am
@raphael
Matthew Stafford
Mark Sanchez
Tim Tebow
Andy Dalton
Colin Kaepernick
RGIII/Kirk Cousins
Andrew Luck
Russell Wilson
Those are all QBs drafted either the same year as Freeman or since Freeman who have led teams to the playoffs. Am I missing anyone? Maybe.
Point is, Glennon has every bit as good a chance of taking us to the playoffs as Freeman.
May 20th, 2013 at 12:38 am
I was not a fan of Glennon before the draft, because I never watched him play and read a couple of scouting reports that pointed out his low comp%. But after he was picked up by us, I watched every full game of his there was on YT and I came away extremely impressed.
My main observation was, Glennon was trying to ball like Brady with substandard receivers. Majority of his attempts were in the intermediate range where his WRs either dropped a lot of balls or he missed them by inches because of pressure on his face, thanks to the bad O-line in front of him. Overall, he was such a willing gunslinger of the ball, often able to fit projectiles within tight windows. I honestly think if Glennon was all we had at QB, he could have had a season like Freeman in 2012 in his sophmore year. He is much better than Freeman in accuracy imo. That being said, I do not want to see the situation where Freeman is no longer a Buc. Not because I like Freeman, but because it would mean another wasted season for Bucs in 2013 due to bad QB play.
May 20th, 2013 at 1:25 am
illuminati ….you ever heard of the “team”concept ?
maybe a defense ?
maybe not a all time record setting worst pass defense in the history of the nfl ? any of those qb’s have that ? didn’t think so…………
May 20th, 2013 at 1:28 am
Excuses…
May 20th, 2013 at 2:33 am
@Couch Fan
Yes, and our record could have been better than 6-4 if our defense wasn’t as bad as it was and dropped games in less than a minute. That would have put our final record on the better side of .500 and that’s with Freeman’s inconsistent play. But instead, our defense was garbage and we needed Freeman to be elite to carry us, and he’s simply not that.
May 20th, 2013 at 3:21 am
Your right he’s not nor will he ever be elite. Only question is will he ever be good enough to win games for us period? We have 1 season left to find out.
May 20th, 2013 at 4:43 am
Nah, he’s still young enough to still have a chance at becoming elite. He’s far from that right now. And Freeman has won plenty of games for us, and put us in position to win more.
May 20th, 2013 at 8:08 am
@Stranger is right, when Freeman was absolutely shredding opposing defenses last year, we were winning games, but barely, because our D gave up a TON of points! Freeman went on a 7 game tear where he threw 16tds to only 3ints (something like that, I’m not sure) where none of us were complaining, he looked like THE BEST QB IN THE LEAGUE in that stretch of time, but the D never played any better, Freeman couldn’t sustain his MVP level of play, and the losses started piling on. And this always makes me sad, because we have ALL seen Freeman completely dominate opposing defenses, we haven’t seen a dominant D since 2002, but yeah, lets replace Freeman with Napoleon Dynamite, that’ll send us to the promised land alright. XD My fellow Bucs fans are stupid