Underwhelmed With Bucs Draft
April 29th, 2013
J.P. Peterson isn’t all that enamored with the Bucs draft picks, including defensive tackle Akeem Spence.
Joe knows by the comments just on this here corner of the interwebs that not all Bucs fans are singing Hosannas at the Bucs braintrust for the totality of players selected in last weekend’s NFL Draft.
One person with a microphone who is of kindred spirit is Tampa Bay electronic media czar J.P. Peterson. The part-time host at WDAE-AM 620 panned the Mark Dominik-Greg Schiano two-headed monster’s draft picks, in particular the defensive picks, or lack thereof.
The defensive line has 2 first round picks in Adrian Clayborn and Gerald McCoy and a high second rounder in Da’Quan Bowers. But all have been injury prone and none have proven themselves as elite or even semi-dangerous pass rushers. When you watch the tape Michael Bennett was the most effective rusher and the Bucs didn’t even make an effort to keep him. The additions of 4th round picks Akeem Spence and William Goldston do not scream pass rusher. Spence had 3.5 sacks in 3 years at Illinois while Gholston had 10 in 3 years. 5th round pick DE Steven Means, from Buffalo…and not the Bills…had 18.5 in his career but against offensive tackles who will soon be accountants. Give Drew Brees and Matt Ryan enough time and they can torch any secondary.
As for the linebackers the Bucs signed Jonathan Casillas who couldn’t start for the Saints defense…one of the worst in NFL history. WLB Lavonte David is a budding star but MLB Mason Foster struggles in coverage and to get off blocks. SLB Quincy Black is no longer on the roster. Adam Hayward will finally get a shot but these seems like a position that needed upgrades and got none.
Joe believes J.P. makes some good points about the defense, though Spence is not, never has been and isn’t expected to be a sack monster. He is the clone of Roy Miller, a tilted tackle who is expected to eat up blocks in the middle and set Gerald McCoy free to ravage the opposing quarterback, a trait that worked well last year. GMC apparently impressed his NFL brethren enough to get elected to the Pro Bowl.
Now Joe will have a story tomorrow from both a college and NFL insider who is really, really high on Gholston, so we shall see. Joe found it interesting that Dominik said Gholston can play in the middle on passing downs a potentially smart move with a giant like that.
Joe also thought Peterson nailed it with Casillas. Joe had learned from an insider at One Buc Palace prior to the draft that Schiano wanted depth at linebacker. He basically got none.
As for Casillas, if he couldn’t start for a garbage defense in New Orleans (unless they faced Josh Freeman), how can or why should Bucs fans have feel secure that Casillas can do anything with the Bucs?
April 29th, 2013 at 3:17 pm
j.p is 100% correct. It doesn’t mater who our corners are if the qb has all day to throw. We had a bad pass rush last year and lost our best rusher!!
April 29th, 2013 at 3:18 pm
Way over reacted here. SLB isn’t a position at a premium right now. Heyward or Casillas or heck, even Goode or Watson will be fine there.
As for the D line, I liked the picks and think they will pan out great. Spence has potential to start and make and impact and Gholston has serious upside. Plus the Means kid is mostly an unknown quantity.
These guys werent drafted to start at DE, they are depth. Schiano and Co. is banking on Clayborn and Bowers being the real deal and while i’m not as confident in them, there must be a reason for their optimism.
April 29th, 2013 at 3:22 pm
bennet got all his sack 3rd down situations wastn even a starter
April 29th, 2013 at 3:23 pm
Regarding LB depth, this apparently wasn’t the year. They set priorities. They addressed DB and DL… Next year, we’ll be filling in LB, I’m sure. It’s difficult to get answers for every weakness on the team in one offseason.
April 29th, 2013 at 3:25 pm
Easily couldve had Glennon in the 4th, maybe 5th. Could have picked a quality linebacker in round 3. Did Dom and Schiano really think Glennon was that coveted by other teams? If so it makes you question their judgement.
April 29th, 2013 at 3:32 pm
Unless you guys have seen the draft boards of other teams, where do you get your idea that the Bucs reached on Glennon? Is this based on the media who so accurately predicted Nassib to the Bills at 8? Or Geno Smith guaranteed gone in the first round? EJ Manuel hoping to be taken in the 2nd round? The media doesn’t always have the answers. Teams feed them false feedback all the time in hopes it will get players to drop. I don’t like the Glennon pick either, but to say that they could have had him later is just talking out of your ass.
April 29th, 2013 at 3:34 pm
I, too, thought for sure that the first pick would be a DT. Then a QB on the next pick? I didn’t understand. But, apparently, they are very high on Spence and Gholston. We’ll see. But, I think both coudl be OK. As curmudgy says, you can’t fill all the holes with one draft. I am more worried about depth at OT than LB. I suspect a couple of vets a these two positions may be added when more training camp cuts occur. I think the draft was quite decent.
April 29th, 2013 at 3:36 pm
I agree some good points but some things were overlooked. Hard to sack the Quarterback when the bucs rush 3 or “GULP” 2 guys. We saw that a lot last year to try to make up for the short comings of the pass defense. How many times did we send a safety? how about a few to none. Our best blitzer was Rhode. I think with a cover corner like Revis, we could see more creative pressure and more getting to the quarterback. This entire draft class does not seem great across the board. Ww will see soon enough.
April 29th, 2013 at 3:45 pm
I think most of the skepticism over our draft is because of our selection of Means. Granted, he may work out very well but most didn’t have him drafted and to take him in the fifth is questionable.
We don’t know and may never know what Dom & Schiano knew at the time they made their choices. Another team may have been interested in Glennon or they felt several QBs would be taken before their 4th round pick and someone else might have moved up to get him. Whether he or any of these picks were the right choice won’t be know for a while.
I am still concerned about the late picks in last year’s draft.
What is going on with Goode, Tandy & Smith?
Is it that we gamble in the late rounds? Or, by the nature of them most players are a crap shoot anyway?
April 29th, 2013 at 3:46 pm
I don’t understand why people on the outside (fans and analysts) believe they have enough knowledge to judge if any pic is good. Also what makes them qualified to make these judgements? I trust the bucs
April 29th, 2013 at 3:49 pm
agree with lev. Every pick is already a boom or bust. Give the guy a jersey first. Geez
April 29th, 2013 at 3:59 pm
Improved secondary will result in more sacks… last year quarterbacks could drop back and throw without hesitation. This year they will have to go through their progressions. This gives the Dline that extra heartbeat they were not afforded last season. Panic if you want to I for one have faith that were headed in the right ditection…. maybe even the playoffs. Contender yet, maybe not, but on our way.
April 29th, 2013 at 4:00 pm
your anti-freeman rhetoric is sickening. you use this “blog” to espouse your personal views under the guise of your old “objective” journalistic skills. It’s beyond irritating how wrong you are all the time – calling out Dominik for playing poker and losing when we traded down last year (loved that you deleted the post after you realized they never wanted mo claiborne), your insistence that blount is a star in the making and your clear bias for him to win the starting job last year (great call), and your thinly veiled hatred for josh freeman.
April 29th, 2013 at 4:00 pm
my 1st thought when reading this…….
YOU CAN’T FIX STUPID
April 29th, 2013 at 4:06 pm
Bucs4Life:
Joe doesn’t hate Freeman at all. He’s a great guy.
What Joe hates is how he disappears when the Bucs need him the most.
Help Joe out: Was it Dan Orlovsky who tossed four picks to an awful Saints defense, the worst in the NFL?
April 29th, 2013 at 4:13 pm
It’s a crapshoot. Always has been. Even when everyone drools over a pick.
Remember that guy that was supposed to be the greatest o lineman of all time………sucked.
So, some of these guys might be good.
I’d put pass rush and josh as our co-biggest question marks. Those are big question marks IMO.
April 29th, 2013 at 4:23 pm
Far as I’m concerned, we got one starter in this draft…Banks. And he’ll have to beat out Wright first.
People trying to include Revis as part of our draft are trying to cover up the truly horrible picks we made.
All but one were intended backups with hopes that they will turn into starters. And I’ll bet half of them do not make the final roster.
Glennon is a Chris Simms clone. Drafted to be a backup in the 3rd round, when we had more pressing needs at DT and OLB.
Akeem Spence is a run blocking DT. He handles blocks okay, but how will that help GMC get sacks? When Miller, a more established run blocker could not? Spence is only getting a starting role by default.
William Gholston is the cousin of a bust, and he shows the same traits in his work ethic.
Steven Means has a lot of potential at OLB, but not so much at DE, his projected position.
Mike James will be lucky if he even makes the final roster. Heck…he might make the practice squad at best.
But the thing that bugs me most is that there were BPAs available at each of those picks that were not taken…at positions of true need.
I grade this draft a d+ at best.
April 29th, 2013 at 4:28 pm
Robert could not agree with you more, recall the atlanta game, they backed off the pass rush and had a solid game, way too early to say these guys are a bust, if it falls apart, we have a QB in waiting that will have time to learn before he gets put in the fire, let this team come together you might be surprised what happens. There is no dispute that other than last year DOM has stunk the joint up with his bad picks, If josh bombs, he cant blame anyone this year, no one else to blame Josh, time to put up or shut up.
April 29th, 2013 at 4:37 pm
I love the doomsayers who know these players and team needs better than Schiano and Dominik. I’m sure your research on these players has been exhaustive. I’m sure you watched all the film on these guys, talked football with them, and interviewed them in depth. I have no doubt Dominik and Schiano would love to have your input.
April 29th, 2013 at 4:38 pm
Internet GMs and scout teams on the loose.
April 29th, 2013 at 4:50 pm
I like the draft overall. There is a reason Dom has his job and I have mine. I would’ve liked the Bucs to take Damontre Moore in the 3rd and Khaseem Greene in the 4th, but I think it worked out well enough. Naturally local pundits like JP will be more harsh, but most national outlets are rating the Bucs draft very highly (again.)
April 29th, 2013 at 5:01 pm
though I would have loved nothing more than to draft a LB in the second round of the draft, the LB position is a bit devalued in our defense so im not really worried about who starts at SOLB. we have plenty of capable LBs to at least be a stop gap until we find a full time starter at SOLB. Im fully confident those guys will get the job done at that position.
now, as far as the DT position is concerned we are very vulnerable. that position worries me the most.
April 29th, 2013 at 5:03 pm
bucs4life What are you talking about thinly veiled hatred. It is more like out in the open pushing a freeman hatred agenda. Nothing is veiled its obvious what joe thinks.
April 29th, 2013 at 5:06 pm
@ BuccaneerBonzai
how can you NOT include Revis as part of the draft? they used the 1st round pick in a transaction to bring him here, which is essentially the same thing as writing a rookie’s name on a card and handing it to Goodell. they spent it (and next year’s 3rd) on him. it’s pretty simple.
all of your credibility is shot when you refer to DTs Akeem Spence and Roy Miller as “run blockers”. wrong side of the football. offensive linemen are the ones who block, not defensive linemen.
and i will agree that William Gholston’s work ethic is pretty bad, which is likely the reason for his inconsistent play. but everyone needs to stop comparing him to his cousin Vernon. Vernon actually had a great work ethic, and it shows in his physique and measurables. the problem is that he just wasn’t a very good football player.
that would be like everyone assuming Isaiah Trufant, CB for the Jets, will be a stud because his older brother Marcus was one of the more productive CBs in the league for a long time. Marcus had a very successful career, but Isaiah is average at best. the last name doesn’t mean everything. Cris Carter was one of the all time great WRs, but his son bounced around at 4-5 different colleges and was lucky just to get a tryout with the Vikings.
i thought you had some intelligent posts leading up to the draft, but your last one here makes me think i might have just been high or something.
April 29th, 2013 at 5:07 pm
@ Joe
I disagree. in how many games did Josh Freeman get us that 4th quarter lead only for it to have been blown with the last seconds of the game by the defense? I think it was 4. so Josh Freeman did show up when we need him the most because he got us that lead late in the game, the only problem was he couldn’t play defense to hold on to that lead. but hey, thats a perfectly valid criticism to bestow upon Freeman (sarcasm).
April 29th, 2013 at 5:13 pm
Biggest issue with Bucs’ draft is not grabbing some of that ample talent at tight end. I hate to say it, but Chip Kelly gets this way way more than Schiano does — he’s got one good (Celek) and one great (Casey) TE and he drafted a third, and he’s ready to deploy _all_ of them at the same time.
http://www.nj.com/eagles/index.ssf/2013/04/nfl_draft_2013_eagles_coach_ch.html
There’s a major shift toward offensive tight ends and the Bucs are really missing the boat. Luke Stocker is, relatively speaking, crap. This isn’t just some trendy fad. It’s driven by the defenseless receiver rules enacted and enhanced within the last few years. A big, Power Forward type with ups, agility and hands was always a threat to grab passes for big chunks of (relatively) easy yardage. But in the past, playing tall over the middle was a way to literally get yourself killed. Now these guys can do it with impunity. If you’re not adapting your personnel to exploit these rules, you’re putting yourself in a hole.
We get a little of this out of Vincent Jackson, but we need him downfield more. Hopefully the Bucs have some practice squad or UFA diamonds in the rough who can fill this role (it’s still new enough that you’ll find fits and see development even after college — unlike other positions, guys haven’t been receiving coaching in these skills continuously since junior high). But that’s a risky proposition. Better to have grabbed some of the obvious talent from this draft.
On the other hand, a 3rd round QB was exactly the right idea. I don’t know anything about Glennon, but that’s what we need — someone not brought in to threaten/immediately replace Freeman, but someone we can develop in case Freeman doesn’t pan out this year. And make no mistake, this is Josh’s make or break year. He’s either going to end this season as our quarterback for the next 4 or 5, or on his way off the team.
April 29th, 2013 at 5:19 pm
@Joke-
We only have so many draft picks. Plus we have some developmental TEs on the roster in Noble and Dunsmore. The staff thinks Stocker has ability and Crabtree can contribute as well. All this, plus serious defensive needs means no TE drafted. In an ideal world, we’d have more draft picks and could get everything we wanted… but you have to focus on priorities, and I frankly don’t give a crap what Chip Kelly is doing with his team.
April 29th, 2013 at 5:29 pm
@ Joke
just like there’s more than one way to skin a cat, there’s more than way to play offense. we dont need to have a TE driven offense to be successful, as evidence of our 9th ranked offense last year without one. thats my opinion of course. would it have been nice to have gotten a dominant TE in the draft? Yes. but is it a required to be a good offense? No. I believe it is a fad that will die out over time.
All we need is a TE who is a good blocker and can get 20-30 catches and 2-3 touchdowns in a season. I believe Stocker can accomplish that, or at least I hope he can.
one thing I agree with you 100% is your take on Josh Freeman.
April 29th, 2013 at 5:33 pm
@Joke
Wow, very thought out comment. Some insight I haven’t really heard before about the TE evolution in the NFL. Never really tied it to the rule changes before.
I agree completely on the drafting of Glennon. Including the spot where he was drafted. With him being drafted in the third round there is no sense of urgency or commitment to make him the starter anytime soon, as with a high pick, but not drafted so low that it was a waste of a pick who will never challenge Freeman. He obviously has SOME skill to get him drafted there.
@BuccaneerBonzai
I really just have to LAUGH OUT LOUD at your entire post. I mean, really? You labeled the ENTIRE BUCS DRAFT CLASS (minus one) a complete bust the MONDAY AFTER the draft? It really is laughable. I don’t agree with some of the picks myself but wow, I don’t have the sheer ignorance within me to call the entire thing a bust and a “d+ at best” moments afterwards.
Imagine that, a guy sitting on a couch somewhere that could be running this team and doing a better job than Dominik?
We obviously really missed out by not having you in the war room buddy.
April 29th, 2013 at 5:35 pm
You cant make champagne with rat turds. He complains Gholston had 10 sacks, well thats more than 2 DEs taken in the Top 5 this year. This was a try to make the best of it draft year.
April 29th, 2013 at 5:35 pm
Initially I was puzzled by the Glennon pick, but after looking at all the available 3rd round picks; based on player rating and need there were no other players I would’ve deemed as a better selection for the Bucs. This was a very weak draft. I notice how most pundits and NFL execs dance around it and refrain from saying it but the overall talent level was below average.
April 29th, 2013 at 5:40 pm
jason jones, er, third down is usuaully the passing down.
April 29th, 2013 at 5:43 pm
Curmudgeon and Lev , I will agree with you both–when this regime has shown it is capable of picking productive football players past the 4th round–or the third, excluding Williams, who only dropped due to character concerns. Until then, criticism of their selections is valid.
April 29th, 2013 at 5:43 pm
Joe,
The list of UDFAs at Buccaneer.com is quite different from what everybody originally published. FYI!
April 29th, 2013 at 5:45 pm
” This was a try to make the best of it draft year.” jvato24, I got that sense also–even in the first round. Clubs were taking big chances simply because their was no downside to doing so–the talent just wasn’t there.
April 29th, 2013 at 6:13 pm
West Coast,
Agreed. I have been getting some hearty laughs on here since Friday night. It’s like Dominick drafted all punters and kickers.
Loved the Glennon pick.
April 29th, 2013 at 6:17 pm
Joe, you are correct on the 4 ITs by Josh and NO, but what everyone is not thinking of is that this is the first full season, including off season, for the coaching team. They saw how their players played and what they did and what they wanted to fix the problems.
I know from what everyone says that undrafted FAs do not make the team, let alone start is not true and they provide backup when needed for rest and injury.
As for Backup QB, do we want the new guy or the old guy or both?
Do we want to move Foster from the MLB to his natural position and try someone else or not?
Who will be the return man?
Can the Assistant coaches coach their troops to perform better?
Who will make the team?
Do you think that the all the preseason activity, this means anything before the start, might determine any of this? Could this be why this is done?
I know that everyone that thinks they know better always wins the fantasy football leagues and every point spread in Las Vegas, but who knows?
The only thing we can agree on is the word “If”.
Can’t wait until preseason.
April 29th, 2013 at 6:25 pm
AMEN
April 29th, 2013 at 6:28 pm
Joe,
I don’t think you understand what being double-teamed means. Roy Miller maybe never got double-teamed on a passing down to allow McCoy a chance to get after opposing QBs. Miller received the double-teams on running plays.
April 29th, 2013 at 6:43 pm
jarrett:
The only “agenda” Joe has is for the Bucs to win. What Joe “hates” is when the Bucs lose, no matter who the quarterback is.
April 29th, 2013 at 7:06 pm
The bucs acquired one of the best corners in NFL history in this draft. Anything else helpful is gravy.
The rest of the draft is impossible to judge with any certainty bc there are too many variables. All we can do project.
I project Banks as a starter, Gholston has NFL size and athleticism.
Glenn on is a better NafL QB coming out of College than Freeman – Schiano knows it. Glennon is not better today as Freeman’s significant NFL game experience, some successful, gives him an advantage. Glennon is also slow as hell, Tom Brady and Peyton Manning slow (illustrates how unimportant qb speed is). Try to find the NCSU v FSU game, where Glennon almost single handedly beat FSU and Manuel. I concluded during that game that Glennon is the better QB and with less talent around him elevated the play of his teammates.
If given time, Glennon can read defenses well (probably better than Freeman who struggles in this area), make solid decisions and Glennon can hang with Free in arm strength. Glennon is not as accurate as you would like, but is probably better than Free there – both have a lot of confidence in their arm strength which leads to deep throws and hard throw decisions (which causes drops and poor throws).
I think Glennon was affected in comp. % by poor talent around him. Free had a bunch of NFLers, including Jordy Nelson, around him when he was inaccurate in College.
Schiano likes Glennon, wanted him badly at Rutgers – don’t be surprised if Coach views Glennon as a potential starter, maybe sooner as opposed to later.
April 29th, 2013 at 7:27 pm
if u dont take the best availble player u dont do ur team any favors.
see all of our picks
April 29th, 2013 at 7:34 pm
I just looked over the last 10-15 articles Joe has written, and none talk about Gosh Freeman from Joe’s words.
Joe is very fair towards Freeman. All Joe wants is for the Bucs to reach the play offs (remember when you clowns said reaching the playoffs werent good enough under Gruden?).
If Gosh Freeman can’t take this very talented team to the playoffs this season, then he isn’t worth a new contract… he can go be a back up elsewhere in the NFL.
The problem I have is not with Joe, but most of you Freeman protectors, scared like little chickens that the Bucs drafted a QB that has the arm to show up Freeman in preseason and when Gosh gets yanked this season.
Mark it down, when Gosh implodes, he will get benched in 2013. He will most likely get the next start, but he will get benched and you little chickens will be crying foul because he just lost out on a contract.
April 29th, 2013 at 7:36 pm
Personally I would’ve taken Jesse Williams or Arthur Brown over Akeem Spence. I would never had never traded a 6th round pick to move up 12 spots to select him when Williams and Brown were still on the board. Wasted a pick when they could have sat tight.
The same with selecting Glennon early. They were probably safe to wait till the fourth round. But who knows, maybe he wouldn’t.
The trade-up for Spence was a reach.
April 29th, 2013 at 7:46 pm
@Thomas 2.2
Im not so sure a third round pick (that many believe should have been a fourth or fifth round pick) is “a better NFL QB coming out of College than Freeman” (a consensus first or at least second round pick). Especially considering what a terrible QB class this was. If anything he was over valued because of the lack of quality QBs this year.
Glennon had more yards in college but threw more picks than Freeman. I am not so sure that Schiano “knows” or even cares if Glennon is/was a better QB coming out of college.
You also pretty much give Glennon the benefit of the doubt on every aspect of his game over Freeman. “Can probably read defenses better”…”not as accurate as you would like, but is probably better than Free there”
I am going to give the benefit of the doubt to the guy that has done something on the NFL level. (Like set franchise records for a QB. Bucs have been around since the 70’s so its not like it means nothing.) I give the benefit of the doubt to the guy that was projected as a first round pick in a draft that saw three QBs taken in the first round.
Freeman has his issues but, no, a third round QB is not better right now or at the time Freeman was drafted than Freeman. To say so would mean you think he would have been drafted higher than or at least near Freeman if they were drafted at the same time. This simply is not true.
I agree though on Banks potentially starting and Gholston having some upside.
April 29th, 2013 at 8:14 pm
Westcoast:
Apparently comprehension isn’t your thing. What about “Glennon is not better today” failed to register.
Draft position means squat. It is purely a function of how scouts subjectively rate players vs draft peers compared to the teams collective positional needs. Comparing round taken in different draft years is just plain senseless as every draft is very different in depth compared against need. Frequently, west coast, teams draft players LESS nfl ready than peers based on higher upside.
In order for your premise to be valid, scouts would have to be correct in their grading of QBs 100% of the time and never place more stock in upside over present ability.
By your foolish logic: Freeman is better than Tom Brady, as was Giovanni Carmazi taken 3 rounds before Brady.
Fewer teams needed QBs this year bc so many drafted franchise QBs last year (Luck, RG3,Tanneyhill,Wilson,weeden)I agree that this was not a great QB draft class – I think (I surmise that the team agrees) Glennon is the best prospect. Drew Brees = 2nd round, Tom Brady = 6th round, Russell Wilson = 3rd Round.
Once more: I did not and am not arguing that Glennon is better than Free. I am saying that Glennon is better than you all think, and comparable to Free coming out of College, and yes more polished in some areas.
Free had and has HUGE upside which is why he snuck into the first round, that and his unqualified College DC was foolishly and undeservedly handed a nfl head job
April 29th, 2013 at 8:14 pm
Glennon has upside. He has a cannon of an arm and is gonna show it in preseason. When Josh fails to convert on 3rd down 70% of the time (like las season) then he will have to be benched to wake him up a little. I think Josh is much like a 5th man in a starting rotation… a guy who has the tools, but doesnt have the mental toughness to shut teams down start after start… a guy who gets yanked in the 3rd or 4th inning after giving up 5 earned runs… Josh’s era would be about a 5.50. This is Josh’s last chance.
April 29th, 2013 at 8:47 pm
Geez, all these armchair GM’s talking like they know Josh Freeman and what he will do this year. Probably the same guys that wanted us to cut GMC after the first two years when he was injured, and screaming we should have drafted Suh (who was gone by the time we drafted….)
April 29th, 2013 at 9:14 pm
BamBam, you are the biggest arm chair of them all… the other day you were crying about draft picks made by the Bucs claiming that there were higher ranked players on “the board”… you meant Mel Kipers board didnt you?
And you were crying about competition being drafted for Josh “32 percent 3rd down converter” Freeman.
April 29th, 2013 at 9:19 pm
That article is terrible, for one its too easy to be negative if you’re in the media, if you are going to be, you better bring valid points. JP’s point seems to be that they just didn’t draft DT/DE’s he likes or knows about. Well thankfully JP, you’re not running the Bucs so who the F cares about what you think from your armchair with a mic in front of you.
April 29th, 2013 at 9:45 pm
Johnathan Banks – draft grade: A-
Won the Jim Thorpe Award. Corner with excellent ball skills and good coverage. Also a willing tackler but needs to improve. I love that pick in the second round. I think his draft stock only fell cause of a not so great 40. I think he’ll be fine.
Mike Glennon – draft grade: B-
Very tall quarterback with a very strong arm. Threw for a bunch of TD’s the past 2 seasons ( 62 combined If i’m correct ) His accuracy too much in his final year, definetely needs to improve on that. This is either a great pick and it pushes Freeman and he has his best year yet and gets us into the playoffs. Its a bad pick if Freeman has a horrible year and Glennon takes over the franchise 3/4 through his rookie season or next year. That can set our franchise back a year or two.
Akeem Spence – draft grade: B
This guy is STRONG, a very good run stuffer. Rarely brings pass rush though. I think he will be better then Miller at the tilt. I like this pick. should keep our run defense in tact if he can take double teams like Miller.
William Gholston – draft grade: C+
I think this might sound crazy, but it kinda scares me that Gholston is the cousin of one of the biggest draft busts ever. Hope it not some family curse lol! on the field Gholston is a large dude, but as a DE his production in the last 3 years has been average at best. He also takes plays off sometime. He does have talent though, if he can improve his work ethic and with NFL coaching, he has a chance to become a good player.
Means – Draft grade: D+
We already drafted 2 lineman, WE HAD OTHER NEEDS! we should of picked a TE or a LB. Dominik and Schiano said he will play defensive end. He put up good production in college but faced very poor competition. I think this is the worst pick of our draft.
Mike James – Draft grade: B+
first let me say, that I thought we could of definetely at least get a 5th round pick for Blount, kind of shocked me when we got a 7th and Demps. I like the James pick, he hits holes harder then Blount ( Blount danced to much in the backfield ) he is a MUCH better reciever out of the backfield then Blount. Faster then Blount. I think James will be a good backup to D-REX.
OVERALL: B
How many draft grades do you guys agree and disagree on?
April 29th, 2013 at 9:47 pm
Regarding Glennon, with good coaching plus the offense we have surrounding him who knows what he can do. It will be interesting to watch.
April 29th, 2013 at 9:55 pm
Yes, #238, that was me… and here you are prognosticating how Freeman will perform this year based on what? Stats from profootballfocus or something? What’s his DVAR? What I can say is I’ve seen Josh perform well at times. He was tops in the NFL in October last year, yes last year, that horribly inconsistent last year. He had a 10 win season with a horrid defense and a RB we got a 7th round draft pick for. I’m not gonna sit here and say he’ll be a Pro Bowl-er this year, nor will I say he’ll be a Mark Sanchez butt-fumbler either. What I do know is I’ve seen him play well in the NFL, I haven’t seen Glennon do anything in the NFL yet, and virtually every report, everywhere says Glennon is basically what we despise about Freeman, a horrible decision maker (especially under pressure, which Josh actually does OK under pressure), Glennon has horrible feet and slow dropping from center to either hand off or throw. While he has a big arm, he’s either spot on with his throw or he’s in the stands (sound like Freeman?)
And NO, I never once looked at who Kiper had on his board, I hate the ESPN analysts for the draft. Yes, I listen to Mike Mayock some, but that’s not my only resource. I love college football and watch a TON of it. I love the draft and watch players specifically that may enter the draft in games I watch. Glennon isn’t even close to what Ryan Mallett was. Same size, same arm strength (pretty close, I’d give Mallett the edge there). Mallet has more game intelligence, makes reads quicker, much more accurate with his throws, probably has a bit less “touch” on the ball on fades.
While I don’t subscribe to Football Outsiders, I do read their articles. You should read what they say about Glennon. How about Walter Football, interesting take on Glennon there. I could go through the college stats, per sports-reference.com and show how Glennon isn’t spectacular, but all people want to look at is a single 2TD-1INT game against FSU for a whoppoing 259 yards and a 54.5% completions as his “highlight” game. Not to mention his career total 112 rushes for a -296 yards, a -2.6 ypc. Hope we don’t need him on a QB sneek like we use Free.
I could go on and on. About him, about Gholston v. Damontre Moore (who we could have landed in the 3rd), about James v. Franklin (possible in the 4th if we didn’t need Gholston).
I don’t know how any of these picks will actually perform in the NFL, some may surprise, some may fade away without even a whimper. What I do know is one pick (Glennon) changed the remainder of the draft. Changed who we took and when. Entering the draft, it was wide open, we had many options because we already had Revis. After Glennon, it became immediately imperative to get DL depth, and with the trade of Blount it became imperative to sign a full-time RB instead of the option of a 3rd down/change of pace back.
April 29th, 2013 at 10:21 pm
Canadian, I’d agree on Banks, Spence and Means. Glennon was a reach in the 3rd, so I’d drop that lower. Not based on talent or lack of, but based on where he was taken in relation to his talent. He’s probably a C to B- QB in this draft if he’s taken in the right spot. I absolutely hate Matt Barkley because he’s from USC, but he’s a better QB than Glennon. Glennon probably fits our offense better than Barkley, but Landry Jones is a pretty good fit and probably an equal QB to Glennon. I’d also put Tyler Wilson ahead of Glennon. Wilson, Barkley and Jones were all 4th round picks. If we waited til our 2nd 4th round pick to take a QB, one of those 4 should have been available, probably Jones or Glennon, the two best suited for our offense. That’s why the Glennon pick is so bad, has nothing to do with taking a QB or competition for Freeman or getting a competent backup. It’s all about where we took him.
I had to laugh reading one analysis of Gholston and in it’s Pro’s section it said “goot at tying up Guards”. Wait, isn’t Gholston a DE? What’s he doing inside tying up guards? If he’s running a stunt inside, he better not be tying up anyone, he better be making a tackle or a sack. Not horrible as a backup LDE/run stuffer to backup Bowers, but I doubt he’s even close to Teo-Nesheim on the depth chart.
If looking for a receiving RB, we already have a much better option on the roster. Brian Leonard caught 207 passes in 4 years at Rutgers with no less than 38 in a season. James best year was 30 receptions, and 67 in 4 years. James is not a 3rd down back. So, a better comparison is to Blount, who we gave up. Blount averaged 6.8 ypc at Oregon, James 4.4 at Miami. Blount averaged 4.6 in the NFL. I’m really not seeing an improvement here. Now, if we had gotten Franklin from UCLA, he had 58 receptions, but also had 5.6 ypc. Again, the Glennon pick threw this off and we missed out on him. James had 621 yards rushing last year, Franklin had over 1700. Almost 3 times the yards, and about 2 ypc more. Based on filling a need, sure give him a B, but we could have filled it better…
April 29th, 2013 at 10:34 pm
BamBam >>. Point AND match ! chuckle
April 29th, 2013 at 11:20 pm
Aw, too bad… I was holding back, saving some for overtime…
April 29th, 2013 at 11:27 pm
Did I miss-read something here? Does it not say that Glennon is a better QB coming out of college than Freeman? Is this talking about pre-draft Freeman or present? You are talking about one of them, no?
So is ^^^this^^^ comparing Glennon to Freeman now or when he was drafted? Or a comment on his potential? (Because I have the potential to read defenses better than Freeman.)
I am not arguing Glennon has the potential to be the best QB in this class. He certainly does.
You are talking in retrospect as if Glennon has already turned into a legitimate NFL quarterback. I am talking about Glennon as is, right now. If he were in the same draft as Freeman as he was before he was drafted.
Team needs change every year but there is always a plethora of teams looking for a franchise quarterback. How did you twist my words to say that Freeman is better than Tom Brady? I am talking about Glennon and Freeman as pre-draft prospects. (As I thought you were.)
Maybe you can clear some things up about your own comments before I try to carry on a debate here?
April 30th, 2013 at 12:32 am
T2.2: We all understand that some players in later rounds are pretty good. Yes, Brees, Brady and Wilson… let’s continue the list. Romo UDFA, Shaub 3rd, Dalton 2nd, Fitzpatrick 7th, Henne 2nd, Cassell 7th, Kaepernick 2nd, Foles 3rd, Kolb 2nd, etc. Now all these guys started some games last year, not all were that good, but some were.
Now, 1st round QB selections started last year:
Stafford, Luck, Ryan, P Manning, E Manning, Palmer, Freeman, Rodgers, Bradford, Flacco, Rivers, Weeden, Newton, Tannehill, Ponder, Sanchez, Rothleisberger, Cutler, RGIII, Vick, Locker, Gabbert
That’s 34 QBs. 22 1st round picks, 12 later picks. Of the last 10 Super Bowl winners (all won by QBs on this list of starters from last year), 7 were won by 1st round draft choices, only 3 were won by later picks (Brees & 2 Brady, 9 & 10 years ago). Of the losers, 6 of 10 were not 1st round picks. 2 were undrafted (Delhomme and Warner). The others, Brady x2, Hassellbeck and Kaepernick.
What does this show? Well, you can win, and go to the Super Bowl, with a QB not drafted in the 1st round. Almost twice as many teams prefer 1st round QBs, a few get lucky with later picks, and the rest wrestle with mediocrity or worse (see Cassell, Henne, Kolb, etc.). The odds of winning a Super Bowl with a QB drafted in the 3rd round or later are significantly lower in recent history (the last 8 have been 2nd round or higher incl Brees). 1st round QBs are NOT guaranteed winners (see Sanchez, Leaf, Russell, etc), but have a better track record than later picks overall.
So, is Freeman better than Brady? Don’t be foolish, but are the Bucs better than the Patriots? Remember, there are 21 other starters out there for each team each week, plus numerous role players. The Patriots have done an exceptional job of building their team year in and year out. Even when Brady was hurt, they went 10-5 and just missed the playoffs. That’s the sign of a good team, not just a good QB.
April 30th, 2013 at 1:45 am
Bennett is way over rated, most of his sacks came at meaningless points of games. He rarely had drive killing sacks. I’ll take Bowers in his position all day, as long as he remains healthy.
April 30th, 2013 at 2:42 am
This draft was a very boring draft for a lot of teams.. So were in the mix there.. but hey we have a way better team this year than last year and thats exciting.. Dont get me wrong I hate freeman but its do or die for him.. if he dies theres always next years draft class. and the defense is way better now then last year when you have revis… I can complain to much even though id like to….
April 30th, 2013 at 2:43 am
This draft was a very boring draft for a lot of teams.. So were in the mix there.. but hey we have a way better team this year than last year and thats exciting.. Dont get me wrong I hate freeman but its do or die for him.. if he dies theres always next years draft class. and the defense is way better now then last year when you have revis… I can complain to much even though id like to….(We have REVIS)
April 30th, 2013 at 4:31 am
wcbfan meet thomas 2.nil. if this is the same dude from 2 years ago… well, you can see what he does. he also loves to call names when someone disagrees with his opinions. also, he was an early GMC hater (as wall as dominick and many bucs) and stated that gmc was a waste and wouldn’t amount to squat.
April 30th, 2013 at 10:07 am
WestCoastBucsFan, you mention people sitting on a couch and thinking they know better. Isn’t that what every fan does, even you? Let’s not pretend here. Not everyone has the same opinions.
One thing you won’t see me do is hope I’m right. I would much rather be wrong and eat crow…unlike some of the Josh Freeman naysayers. That said, I voiced my opinion. While it may be common to bash people with differing opinion here, I knew it going in.
I gave an honest assessment, even if it is not popular.
I think the Bucs have done awesome in the draft the last few years, but no one is perfect. They missed this one…in my opinion. I don’t obsess ove my team any less…and I really hope they prove me wrong. I’ll rejoice if they do.
April 30th, 2013 at 11:21 am
@BuccaneerBonzai
There is a difference between speculating and what you said. You never once qualified your post with “I think…” or “I hope I am wrong”. There was nothing about your post that made me personally feel as though you were speculating. You very bluntly labeled the entire draft class (minus one) a bust and you gave its potential a ceiling of, “a d+ at best.”
“…TRULY HORRIBLE PICKS WE MADE.”
Your calling them “horrible picks” only moments after they were drafted. Oh, and how could not include Revis in this draft? How could you even try to accurately grade a draft without taking the most important (first round) pick into consideration?
Revis definitely was a part of this draft and will always be treated as such.
April 30th, 2013 at 1:32 pm
Revis was NOT a part of the draft, lol. Funny, I didn’t see his name called during the draft at all. He was a trade, not a draft choice. The fact that a draft pick was used to trade for him has nothing to do with it…picks are ALWAYS used to acquire players in trades.
The JETS got our pick, not us.
Don’t get me wrong, Revis was worth it, but he simply was not part of this draft.
And are you not familiar with the fact that blog commentors always express opinions? It goes without saying to anyone with a lick of common sense. To me, this really was a horrible draft, outside of Banks. I admitted I might be wrong, but you casually browsed over that.
And don’t forget…it is your opinion that these guys are not busts. You never said it was your opinion either. I knew it was, simply because it goes without saying. Why? Because NONE of these draft choices have proven themselves yet. Anything, any claim about ANY draft choice is pure speculation. I don’t care who it is. So every comment on them is “opinion” at this point. To think otherwise is losing touch with reality.
And finally, don’t act like the Bucs can’t be wrong. I love my team, but no team makes perfect choices. They could have had Flacco the year before Freeman. They could have had Steve Young lead them to Superbowls. The team that drafted Peyton Manning obviously got it wrong.
Why?
Because regardless of the research, it all boils down to opinion when those choices are made. And teams get more wrong than they do right. That’s why every draft choice does not make a team. Opinions can be wrong…or right.
I just happen to think the Bucs made more wrong choices this year than right choices. I stand by my draft grade.
Which, btw, is my opinion, just like a grade is anyone elses opinion, whether they get paid or not.
April 30th, 2013 at 2:18 pm
Wow, just clicked submit and my entire post disappeared.
I am not typing that again. I will summarize I guess.
Your original comment never implied or said that you hoped or might be wrong.
I am a little curious as to how you value our first round pick then and a draft as whole that is missing the value of a first round pick that is unaccounted for? While he wasn’t technically “drafted” his value is applied in this draft because of the exchange of the first pick for his services. Otherwise you’re equating a trade to a free agent acquisition and they are very different.
You can disagree with decisions all you want but to call something “failed” out of the gates and giving it a potential ceiling of “a d+ at best” is asinine.
April 30th, 2013 at 3:06 pm
Underwhelmed with the draft!? Really? First pick – Derelle Revis (enough said) 2nd pick – Jonathan Banks (probably going to be the best CB in the draft, yes better then Milliner) 3rd pick – Glennon (im not thrilled by this selection but if Freeman goes down, im a little more at ease with Glennon over Orvlosky) 4th pick – Spence (ive heard many scouts around the league state that the bucs scored big with spence in the 4th rd) After the 4th round its really a toss up, some teams willl get lucky on players, most teams wont!! Gholston looks like a beast, so I am happy with this draft and all the haters, please stop pretending to be Bucs fans, go back to your original teams (Giants, Jets, Patriots, Steelers etc)
April 30th, 2013 at 3:23 pm
BucBonzai where are you getting Chris Simm and Glennon being at all comparible??? Chris Simms 6’4″ left handed, throws a football like a baseball and couldnt get the ball past the line of scrimmage….Glennon 6’7″ right handed, throws the ball like a QB should throw the ball almost never gets the ball swatted at the line of scrimmage and is far better down field passer, for anything he is much more comparible to Joe Flacco….And yes we can say Revis is a first round pick you moron, we traded our first round pick for him, so if we did not trade that pick we would have drafted someone else in the first round!
Gholston is the cousin of a bust WTF?? haha you are a joke!
You dont draft players and expect them to be first year starters, only in desperation or only in a few instances in the 1st and 2nd rounds do you expect starters. Its all about development and what the coaches and scouts see in a player that they feel can be developed into a starter a few seasons down the road.
Dont quit your day job buddy!
April 30th, 2013 at 5:03 pm
KMAC1322, you really should do more research. WestCoastBucsFan, wth all due respect, I’ll bail out of the conversation because it is like taking to a wall.
April 30th, 2013 at 5:15 pm
What am I missing BuccaneerBonzai? You said I “browsed over” things that weren’t there.
April 30th, 2013 at 5:46 pm
With the 13th pick the Buccaneers select Darrelle Revis!!!
Yes, it’s well accepted that Revis was indeed our first round draft pick 😉