Mountains Of Pressure On Schiano, Dominik
April 24th, 2013
This week, general Mark Dominik reminded fans there are now eight young Pro Bowlers on the Bucs roster.
Joe’s really enjoyed the win-now attitude pulsating through the Tampa Bay area since Darrelle Revis drained the green blood from his veins and joined Tampa Bay.
Joe can’t find a Bucs fan talking about the future; it’s all about pounding the Jets on opening day and marching toward a winning season and a playoff berth.
Hell, even rockstar general manager Mark Dominik got into it by reminding Bucs fans this week there are now eight Pro Bowlers on the roster. For those counting, that’s Dashon Goldson, Darrelle Revis, Gerald McCoy, Vincent Jackson, Doug Martin, Carl Nicks, Davin Joseph and Donald Penn.
And only one of those guys is 30 years old! (Jackson turned 30 in January.)
Imagine having eight young Pro Bowl veterans on a roster, plus emerging stars like Mike Williams and Lavonte David, and not having a winning ball club. Joe wouldn’t want to be a head coach who has to face ownership after that.
There’s a mountain of pressure on the New Schiano Order to produce. It doesn’t matter that it’s only the second season of Greg Schiano’s regime. Dominik has dropped a load of talent in Schiano’s lap, and hopefully more to come in the draft. Dominik, too, is under a heat lamp. NFL general managers rarely survive three consecutive losing seasons.
This is all good for Bucs fans, who have been yearning for a season to legitimately expect greatness from their team.
April 24th, 2013 at 10:20 am
This article was written just for stevek.
April 24th, 2013 at 10:29 am
Great news for Buc fans everywhere, alas we have some hope heading into the season.
Time to get back into the playoffs, I can’t wait to see how we perform this year.
April 24th, 2013 at 10:35 am
Buc Fan#238,
Glad to see you can speak without saying something ignorant like last time. By the way, Tavon Austin WILL BE DRAFTED BEFORE Tyler Eifert, and I will be the 1st to post that to you. 🙂
In regards to this thread, What are you implying? Could you be implying that I am happy with the work we have done to our roster over the last week, and that I am geared up for a playoff run?
Yeah, thanks for implying that I am a competitive fan, a fan looking to be entertained for 16 games and hopefully some more after that.
Pardon me for giving a hoot, but this article was writted for Buc fans everywhere, we can now come back out from under our rocks and be ready to see some damn good football this year.
Thanks for mentioning me in your post, and I feel bad for you if you are not extremely encouraged by the off season we are having.
So, what is your point? You are ok with mediocrity, and you don’t like me firing off my “fan cannons” at BS and losing? Ok, sorry for not being “ok” with losing.
Last time I checked, only one team gets to hoist the Lombardi trophy. This is not modern day children’s leagues; where everyone gets a trophy just because.
Sorry if my fanship is too intesnse for your liking, but I am 100% geared up to whoop the Jets week 1.
April 24th, 2013 at 10:35 am
We could have 21 Pro Bowlers – it’s still all about “5”!
April 24th, 2013 at 10:37 am
Mark should get a pass for anything Raheem related. He didn’t have a hand in that mess.
Mark has provided Schiano with all sorts of weapons, I think more pressure is on Schiano than Mark.
Mark has handled our cap extremely well and done a good job on contracts. Yes he has some whiffs, so does every GM, but Mark has done really well and learned from his mistakes.
April 24th, 2013 at 10:42 am
Ultimately it is all about number 5
April 24th, 2013 at 10:45 am
Unless Freeman craps out, we’re going to be in the playoffs, may just make it to the NFC Championship game (long as we stay healthy and Revis is back to his old self).
April 24th, 2013 at 10:45 am
Steve,
It’s more about realistic goals for the team. Bruce Allen left this team with Absolutely NO ONE!! I would have liked the rebuilding to go a little faster, but it takes time when the team was stripped bare like it was. The only player Mark Dominick had to work with is Davin Joseph. Dominick made some mistakes (like every GM in the league) but the only pieces I see missing now are a right tackle, DT, and some CB’s for depth. If everyone stays healthy this team will go a long way.
April 24th, 2013 at 10:52 am
Since 2010, Dominick and Freeman each turned a 180.
Dominick got better at player acquisitions, and we are still waiting on the 2010 Freeman to arrive again. 25 td and only 6 Int’s.
Oh the times, they are a changing.
April 24th, 2013 at 10:53 am
This is Mark’s 5th year and he was director of pro player personnel since 2001 . No more excuses. If he gets the credit for the successes, then he gets the blame for the failures. That’s just how it goes.
I think he goes as Freeman goes. Good or bad. Obviously, hopefully good.
April 24th, 2013 at 10:55 am
Playoffs or it’s Dom’s head. Barring a major injury to Freeman, Revis, Martin or McCoy.
April 24th, 2013 at 10:57 am
draft the honey badger and a capable back up and ill be a happy camper…oh and sign abraham or freeney
April 24th, 2013 at 10:58 am
Freman shouldn’t decide Dom’s fate, let’s hope Dom can maneuver and build enought around Freeman to prevent any lapse of consistency from RUINING another season.
Freeman is the key, and that is that.
April 24th, 2013 at 11:00 am
Strictly speaking, there are 10 pro bowlers currently on the roster. The other two are Steve Smith and Nate Kaeding.
April 24th, 2013 at 11:04 am
Sounds good..
But See Kansas City…
April 24th, 2013 at 11:17 am
I agree, Freeman has to go the distance this year. If he starts throwing balls to the other team more than his own in a meltdown like last year, I don’t see how you put that on Schiano. Our secondary could go from worst to first, but you can’t get to the big game on defense alone anymore.
April 24th, 2013 at 11:23 am
@steve
If you trade up and sign a guy to a $36 million dollar contract, how he performs should have no bearing on the guy who pulled the trigger? Damn, I wish I had that job.
Don’t you think if Freeman had been spectacular up to now, that credit would have been given to Dominick for trading up to draft him? Conversely, if he underperforms, he should be held accountable.
April 24th, 2013 at 11:37 am
Unfortunately Freeman has to be spot on this year. If he’s not, Schiano has to have the balls to pull him and sit his ass on the bench. That’s why it is so important we draft a quarterback this year. Anyone besides me remember Glazers remark about Dominik thinking short term? We have to have a playoff team this year or there will be a roster Change it the top. Don’t let Freeman moonwalk you out of Tampa!
April 24th, 2013 at 11:43 am
2013 NFC south division champs where gonna turn heads
April 24th, 2013 at 11:45 am
True about Freeman being accountable, but it’s also true the Bucs offense scored an average of 26pts a game last season. Should have been good enough for at least 9 wins even with his two meltdown games.
April 24th, 2013 at 11:48 am
@Oil Derrick Brooks
Of course Dom has some responsibility for Freeman. Freeman is a very special situation though. Raheem Morris spent a year at Kansas state and lobbied the first year GM to select him. This is an unusual circumstance where the head coach had a chance to actually work with the guy and had a tremendous influence on the pick. I would say Dom has around 25% of the responsibility for the Freeman pick. This is diluted even further by the fact that this was his first year as a GM. You are nuts if you think a GMs first year is not evaluated differently from his fifth year.
Stop trying to compare a director’s job to a GENERAL MANAGER. They are worlds apart. Dom’s ONLY job was to evaluate current NFL players as director. That was it. He had no experience with contracts, or rookie scouting, or any of the other nuances of being a GM.
If the entire team does great and goes into the playoffs but Josh has an average to below average year then Josh may be gone but Dom will not. Dom is gone only if the whole team collapses for a lack of talent.
April 24th, 2013 at 12:18 pm
Freeman’s development is not on Dominick. Freeman showed enough resolve in 2010 to look like a “franchise” guy.
It would be frugal to draft a QB this year in the mid-rounds, just as insurance in case “bad Josh” rears his ugly head.
Dominick is responsible for drafting Freeman, and trading up to do so. However, he can save himself by drafting his successor.
We will draft QB this year, and Freeman needs to do his job *consistently*.
Dominick is getting it pointed in the right direction, but ultimately it is up to Freeman, or the QB to be named later to get the job done.
April 24th, 2013 at 1:36 pm
Does everybody forget that Freeman beat mostly crap teams in 2010 and that he always had to play catch up?
April 24th, 2013 at 1:46 pm
I never forgot that Patrick. I have been saying that same thing that the homers refuse to see or listen to. He has not been very good for the majority of the time he has been here. Slow starts which lead us to usually having to play catch up, and against bad teams we got lucky that year. His whole career has been basically the same routine. Yes the defense plays a big factor in that but you can not discount that fact his play has been bad the majority of the time.
None of that matters though as he is our guy for at least one more year. I hope he can prove me wrong but after 4 years of the same thing, I’m not betting on it.
With that being said, thats the only concern I have… the future looks bright with or without Freeman!
April 24th, 2013 at 2:13 pm
So, let me get this straight, Dom’s safe, because he acquiesced to Raheem, also in first year (of being a head coach ANYWHERE), lobbing for a guy (because he saw him play one year as a freshman). And you think a first year GM allowing another new guy to dictate his first big move as GM is a commendable thing? That’s the logic you’re going with?
I hope the season goes well. If Freeman bombs, then we have differ on who will be held responsible. I, nor anyone posting here knows. It’s opinion at this point.
Another thing, the only reason I point out the Dir of Pro personnel position, is because the excuse making gets old. He learned his craft under the Allen regime. He was the one scouting those pro free agents that are being used as excuses for the team not having any talent when he took over. He was there. Do you think he was telling Bruce Allen that they all sucked and not to sign them? If Allen sucked, then what was Dominik?
I never once said GM = Dir of Pro Personnel. I’m saying if the team was talentless and filled with crappy FA veterans (when he took over), then he was part of that evaluation process that brought them in, in the first place. But, that wasn’t his fault, right?
April 24th, 2013 at 2:42 pm
I didn’t say Dom was “safe”. Merely that he shoulders less responsibility for Freeman. In his first year year, I can assure you, that even ownership had an input on drafting Josh. There is a huge difference between “seeing a guy play for year” and being on the coaching staff for a year. He most likely got to interact with Josh on daily or at least weekly basis. He got to know him personally. This why Raheem’s input carried more weight than it would for other picks.
All the director can do is turn in his evaluation of a player. That is all. From there the GM and (in the previous regime) the coach made the decisions. Who knows how much of his evaluation was used? You have to think there is a reason Dom was promoted instead of flushed with Allen. If they thought Dom was going to come in and run things just as Allen did then why bother? Why replace a guy with another guy that will come in and do the same thing? He was chosen because of his difference in philosophy from Allen.
April 24th, 2013 at 2:50 pm
The other teams in our division have been active in FA and will help themselves in the draft which will make them better as well. Thats why its imperative we get a backup for Free that we feel could step in and take us to the playoffs if the need arises. With the expectations high this year its a big gamble not to.
April 24th, 2013 at 3:16 pm
What do you mean, you can assure me? You can’t assure me anymore than I can assure you.
So, 25% Dominik? Interesting.
And for levity re: last year’s draft (Dom’s only good one, IMO), Schiano’s first year, what % was Dominick responsible for Barron, Martin, and David? (I already have a guess)
re: his role in the last regime. Wow. So, we know what his job responsibilities were, but, you are not giving him any role in what the results were?
You are supposing that he evaluated all sorts of pro FA prospects, but, the one’s that were signed were just Allen choosing the wrong guy’s from his evaluations? It’s interesting how every supposition seems to give Dominik the benefit of the doubt.
As far as him getting hired, and all his positive traits. He was hired by the same exact people who hired Morris. So, they were wrong about Morris, but, totally right on Dominik? They also hired Gruden and Allen. I can’t remember, do they suck or are they any good?
Fascinating.
April 24th, 2013 at 4:06 pm
@Oil Derrick Brooks
I am saying it goes both ways. You can throw out any number of reasons why Dominik sucks or is good. It is all perspective. All you can do is provide the facts and speculate. That is all any of us can do. And NO, I am not saying or even implying that Allen/Gruden paid Dom to give them his evaluation on certain players and ignored it. Merely that if Dom was giving them bad information on guys then why was he employed for so long as director? If Dom was really responsible for every (or even half) of all the old, burned out vets we picked up then why did Allen keep him employed and take his advice?
I didn’t call the Glazers infallible, everybody makes mistakes. It is obvious from how Raheem acquired his job that there wasn’t time to do the full on coaching search. Raheem was supposed to just be the coordinator that year but wound up as the head coach. He was essentially a panic/cheap hire. They had to pay Gruden some absurd amount for the next 2-3 seasons regardless.
It seems like you are implying that Schiano, a first year head coach back in the NFL after more than a decade away, was able to have a strong hand in deciding which rookies were drafted. How much input could he have had on guys that didn’t even play in his division? (A college coach doesn’t scout potential free agents.) He said so himself that he just kind of “watched it happen”. Im sure that they asked his opinion on guys he played against or with but what could he possibly offer on guys like Barron, David, or Martin? He was simply along for the ride last year. That is not to say he won’t play an exceptionally larger role this year, just that he physically couldn’t contribute very much last year.
Dom and his FO crew deserve nearly all the credit for last year’s draft. If anything, the guys Schiano could have had some input on (Tandy and Goode) didn’t contribute at all.
As far as Gruden is concerned (and Allen), they served their purpose. They got us over the hump that Dungy couldn’t. They got us a Super Bowl. I could not be any more grateful. Gruden is an excellent (complex) play caller but he didn’t like having to spoon feed rookies and that ended up being his demise. They were in “win now” mode since they took over and it eventually burned out because they didn’t plan for the future.
April 24th, 2013 at 4:44 pm
So, somehow all those terrible aging FA’s made it on the team. But, there seems to be a mystery as to how. If Dom did something wrong, he would have been fired. Got it.
So Raheem was a panic/cheap hire. But, Dom was not. Got it.
Freeman, only 25% Dom’s fault. Got it.
Schiano arrives, and it’s a great draft (after three bad to mediocre at best), and nearly all credit to Dominik. Got it.
April 24th, 2013 at 5:09 pm
I am going to try sending this in parts because something is hitting the filter:
So, you read my post and say, “got it”?
I explained WHY I have the opinions that I do. I didn’t come out of left field with a crazy opinion. You normally make for a good debate this roll over and play dead stuff is lame.
Tell me why Dom was kept after all the horrible FA acquisitions? (Was Allen going to fire himself?)
April 24th, 2013 at 5:14 pm
Part 2:
Tell me a better explanation of how Raheem made it from a DB coach to coordinator to head coach in a matter of weeks?
April 24th, 2013 at 5:19 pm
Part 3: (This is really annoying by the way.)
Why does Dom shoulder more than twenty-five percent of the blame, or praise, for Freeman. I provided you with facts of the situation and speculated on the reason.
The one I really want to know though is this: How could Schiano have possibly contributed to the draft process only a month or so after being hired to his first NFL gig in over a decade? Maybe I am missing something that you could tell me? Was Schiano lying when he said that he just watched it happen?
I don’t want to be critical or be a troll. I just want to know. I genuinely want to know. Maybe there is some aspect to this I am not considering that you could enlighten?
I am not some idiot that likes to hear himself speak. I am very open to reconsider my opinion when presented with a new perspective and/or new information.
April 24th, 2013 at 5:22 pm
For whatever reason one sentence that consisted entirely of text with no foul words in it was being filtered. I have no idea why. No html tags or even parentheses.
April 24th, 2013 at 6:42 pm
OK….let’s go back and look at the drafts.
2008 3 starters Talib, Zuttah, Hayes
2009 3 starters Freeman, Miller, Straughter
2010 3 starters McCoy, Williams, Grimm
2011 3 starters Clayborne, Bowers, Foster
2012 3 starters Barron, Martin, David
That’s 15 starters and 10 of which are still on the team as starters. Dom also brought in Nicks, Jackson, Goldson, Wright, and Revis.
Now, how many teams can you find over the past five years that drafted 15 starters and 10 are still on the team as starters and impact players like Mike Williams, Gerald McCoy, LaVonte David, Doug Martin, Adrian Clayborne, Zuttah, Mason Foster, Mark Barron, Freeman, and I’m sure Bowers now that he’s healthy? This team is ready for the playoffs and will be for the next 5-6 years. I don’t think Dom has done badly at all. Show me the list of GM’s who have done better….
April 24th, 2013 at 6:43 pm
I replied as I did, because it’s next to impossible to have a discussion when the parameters are changing.
Have I not read you, multiple times, on this site, state that the GM is responsible for all personnel hires and fires?
So, you state that but then you choose to insert caveats when you decide it serves your argument re: Dominik.
Ultimately, no one on here truly knows what goes on behind closed doors. We can speculate until our faces turn blue. But, we know certain things. The GM is responsible for personnel, the coach is responsible for the in game calls, game plan, how the other coaches do their job (not their hiring but their job). The ownership hires the GM. Those are the types of things we, as fans, know.
So, you say the GM is responsible for personnel. But, then you turn around and add an asterisk to it. *Except in the first draft, because of Raheem. I disagree with you. Dominik drafted Freeman. Anything else is speculation, and doesn’t matter. You don’t know what role ownership had. The GM drafts the players.
You say that Dominik inherited an empty roster (how many GMs inherit good rosters? isn’t that why they are hired?). When I point out that he was one of the main people responsible on the prior staff for bringing in those players. You don’t acknowledge he had any role in those bad players. You instead say that Allen would have fired him if he was so bad. Have you ever considered that they both evaluated and liked bad players?
You say Raheem was a panic/cheap hire. Who do you think was hired at the exact same time? Why didn’t you say Dominik was a cheap/panic hire? They had to pay Allen too.
I am more than willing to give Dominik credit for last year’s draft, but only if his he also gets the blames for his bad draft picks, actually for EVERY draft pick. No caveats. No speculation.
Dominik drafted Martin. Dominik drafted Freeman. We can go through every single draft pick of his. It’s not pretty, but we can. But, dealing in suppositions is simply a waste of time.
And I agree about the posting issues. It’s happened to me many times.
April 24th, 2013 at 7:27 pm
Yes but with the condition, “Unless stated/proven otherwise.” I have always maintained that. It is not a recent development. If a coach comes out and directly says they had a large involvement in acquiring a player then I don’t assume he is lying.
The “caveats” that you say I am adding is because they are needed. Coaches and all NFL FO positions have clearly defined roles but sometimes the lines can get blurred in specific instances.
No. I never considered the possibility that two guys agreed on signing a guy that turned out bad and called it a success. Simply because there is no logic there. I imagine if the front office continued to sign bad players on bad recommendations then, at some point, a person with a brain would try to rectify it. If Dominik was the source of the bad decisions and Allen continued to choose free agents based off of Dominik’s assessment (and not his own) then he would have rid himself of Dominik. (While simultaneously shifting blame from himself.) If Allen was in fact making most of the decisions on his own then of course he will deny it. He is not going to fire himself.
I am not speculating when I say that Raheem had a large involvement in the selection of Freeman. Raheem himself said in several press conferences after the pick that he worked with Freeman and knew that he was the guy. That he HAD to be brought in. This is not speculation but FACT. Raheem and Dom made these statements and that is where I base the things I am saying in regards to Dom’s responsibility in the Freeman pick. I am not cherry picking or speculating here. This is exactly what happened. (Unless Raheem and Dominik flat out lied.)
Some general assumptions have to be made and scenarios/ situations have to be taken into account.
There are quite a few GMs that have been promoted from within their organizations. (Trent Baalke). I don’t assume there was any haste in getting a GM because there was nothing that indicated he was a cheap/panic hire.
With Raheem it is a well known FACT that he was supposed to serve as the coordinator for a year. It is the reason he was promoted twice instead of straight to HC. I believe he was supposed to DC under Gruden. These are facts and not speculation. I am not speculating about what happened. This IS what happened. It is probably somewhere in Joe’s archives. (Except for the Gruden part. I dont know if they were looking for a different HC or planned to keep Gruden another year.)
Recently? Trent Baalke of the Niners and John Dorsey of the Chiefs. Both rosters fairly stocked with talent PRIOR to their current GMs taking over.
You see, most new GMs have SOME talent to begin their rebuilding effort around. There was literally none here. Davin Joseph, Donald Penn, Jeremy Zuttah, and I believe Adam Hayward are all that remain only four seasons later.
How many GMs get starters on three or more draft picks every year? I would seriously like to know. Mark has acquired at least one starter from each draft and, depending on your definition of “starter”, he actually has gotten three starters in every draft he has conducted.
He was promoted so ownership obviously felt that he didn’t have enough of a hand in the old regime to get him fired but instead to get a promotion.
April 24th, 2013 at 7:45 pm
Wow, talk about babbling. Sorry about the book. I got a little carried away.
April 25th, 2013 at 1:15 am
Bobby, you are missing Lorig in your list for 2010, round 7. And as of now at least, Stocker might be added to that list.
Simple. They had longer term plans for him to replace Gruden, but when the season crumbled after Monte’s announcement they were stuck.
The Glazers were afraid Rah was the next Mike Tomlin, and if they let him get out of here, he was going to move on to great success elsewhere. Knowing a new coach would probably end with Raheem leaving town, they instead decided to go with Rah.
It all stemmed from the one that got away.