Weak Pass Rush Not On McCoy
November 28th, 2012
Don’t hang the Bucs’ questionable pass rush on Gerald McCoy, says former Bucs tight end and current radio network analyst Dave Moore.
McCoy is pushing the pocket against the pass, Moore told the Ron and Ian Show on WDAE-AM 620, but the Bucs’ defensive ends aren’t forcing quarterbacks to step up. QBs are able to move laterally, rather than being forced to step up where McCoy has eaten space.
“What’s happening is Gerald McCoy is collapsing the inside, but because the quarterback’s able to step to his left or to his right, rather than forcing the step-up, or having to throw it right away to shorten his motion because there’s a guy coming from inside. What you’re missing is Clayborn on the outside. You’re missing the guys to force the quarterback to step up into the pocket.”
Moore went on to say McCoy is playing well and that the scenario above is costing McCoy on the stat sheet. Moore was fighting off co-host Ian Beckles’ assertion that McCoy is a guy that isn’t making anywhere near the number of plays he should be making.
Of course, the Bucs’ three-man rushes, and the now infamous two-man rush on display against Atlanta, one that saw McCoy drop in pass coverage on third down, aren’t helping No. 93 either.
Regardless, the Bucs need more from the defensive line. Michael Bennett can’t have an off day in Denver like he had on Sunday.
November 28th, 2012 at 1:29 pm
It’s obvious that McCoy is the foundation of that defensive line. It’s also obvious that Dave Moore has far more understanding than Ian Beckles, hands down. The lack of pass rush is totally on the DEs right now and there’s just no way to fix it unless/until Bowers gets full-time reps and starts playing at the level he was last year before the injury. Until that happens we’re gonna see this trend continue this year, unfortunately.
The Broncos have some good tackles so this game could turn into a very frustrating one to watch for Bucs fans. Remember Eli Manning earlier in the season? Hate to say it but you might want to get ready for more of that.
November 28th, 2012 at 1:33 pm
McCoy flushes and the DE’s are supposed to finish the deal but they aren’t, however that’s no excuse for McCoy to not get disruption on 3 and longs which isn’t doing enough of. He needs to get some dog in 3rd and long, when he does that he’ll be the best DT in the league.
November 28th, 2012 at 1:41 pm
DE Jason Babin. Period.
Look, I’m not saying the guy is going to fix things for years to come. I’m not saying he didn’t cause locker room problems in Philly.
But the Eagles are in the middle of a complete meltdown. We all know when a team is going through that, fingers are pointed at anyone who speaks up.
DE Jason Babin had 18 sacks last year. He has 5.5 this year on a HORRIBLE Eagles team. He is 32.
He has ONLY $1.8 million remaining on his contract. Pay the man to finish out the year here. He might just make the difference on the Dline and push us into the playoffs.
Is he a locker room cancer? I don’t know and I don’t care. Why? Because I know if he is, he’ll be gone in an instant because Schiano will NOT put up with it. So the guy would not have time to cause any real problems.
Meanwhile, he’d get a chance to make a statement by finishing the year strong. We cut him at the end of the season and boom…we’re good to go.
Meanwhile, teams will have to double cover him or give up sacks. It’s plain as that. And if the double up, we have the other end and a DT or two who can take up the slack.
It makes sense to me.
November 28th, 2012 at 1:45 pm
Jason Babin is not a good idea. Yes, he had 18 sacks last year but that was playing the “wide 9″ style which the Bucs do not run. Plus, teams were able to get the 2011 film on him in the offseason and almost totally counter his abilities this season. He only has 5.5 sacks as a result. If he was still a valuable pass-rushing asset the Eagles would never have released him. Those guys don’t grow on trees and teams don’t just give them away. Not to mention he’s not the best locker room asset, either.
Look, we already have a DE in Bowers who is capable of getting much more than 5.5 sacks in a season. The Bucs have brought him along slowly so as not to have a setback in his Achilles, but he’s playing more and more each game. Pretty soon here he’ll be able to play full-time. He’s far more talented than Babin and is a tremendous asset to the team.
I really don’t see the Bucs pushing the panic button and signing a guy who’s very mediocre now. It just doesn’t make any sense in their overall plan. Plus both of the roster spots created yesterday are now already filled by signing Hardman and Gilreath. Don’t see how signing Babin makes the Bucs any better.
November 28th, 2012 at 1:49 pm
I didn’t even see McCoy drop back into coverage on that play against Atlanta, Why the f**k would Sherridan drop McCoy into coverage, that is STUPID. What also is pretty stupid is making the D-line do stunts most of the time. Yes, its fine to do stunts once in a while, but I think our players on the D-line are more suited to just go after the quarterback. I love how Sherridan has helped improve our Rush defense to the best in the league, but at the same time were at the bottom of the league in sacks and pass yards allowed.
November 28th, 2012 at 1:49 pm
Profootball Focus agrees with Moore. Actually MCCoy has been very disruptive in the pass game as well as pretty good against the run despite absorbing 2 blockers. He is second in hurries behind the awesome Geno Atkins. Bennett has been doing admirably but it would be nice to someone pitch in on the other end Bowers/Teo also you need a rotation to keep these guys fresh. McCoy has played more passing snaps than anyone in the NFL yes anyone yet by alot (60 or roughly a game or so worth of snaps). Further he is constantly double teamed Miller although pretty good against the run is one of the worst at getting pressure on the QB and that is usually being blocked by 1 guy. I think Miller may be having some back problems which have hindered him. Look at the Lions they have two good tackles and McCoy is close to their level of production with an average, at best, tackle next to him. We need line help and a few corners in the offseason please. Also I am thinking the BUCS could very well be looking at Jason Babin from the Eagles as a possible stop gap if he clears waivers. Hence why they put two people on the IR I am guessing. Of course if Babin does not fit into our system or like Schiano they will probably tell him to pack sand. Further he doesn’t stop the run very well so he most likely would come in on passing downs and for depth. Hell try him at tackle or opposite Bennett and see what happens. If we can get a little more pressure and allow only 40% third down conversions imagine what we could do with our offense.
GO BUCS !!!
November 28th, 2012 at 1:52 pm
@andres – McCoy is second in the league in QB disruptions for DTs with 35. Only bested by Geno Atkins.
McCoy is getting the pressure but he can’t do it alone.
November 28th, 2012 at 1:55 pm
I would avoid Babin at all costs. I live in the Philly area. He disrespects the fan base, loafs on non-pass rush plays, is only a one-trick pony, and has become a locker room cancer. The Philly fans are glad to see him go and he was not well liked even with the 18 sacks….
November 28th, 2012 at 1:57 pm
The presence of Clayborn wont help much except for keeping both Bennett and Bowers fresh. The guy barely generated any kind of pass rush in the first three weeks despite very rarely being double teamed.
The major problem we have on our D-line is that there is no speed rusher. Bennett is a bull rusher, Clayborn is a bull rusher, Bowers is a bull rusher, Nesh is a bull rusher. All these guys occasionally are able to shed the blocks using their hands and get to QB, but everyone of them lacks the pure athletic ability and explosiveness to get to QBs in a hurry.
November 28th, 2012 at 2:10 pm
There is no pass rush because the D-line is too worn out from taking Adderall and running the gauntlet….
November 28th, 2012 at 2:10 pm
lol
November 28th, 2012 at 2:11 pm
Bowers a bull rusher? Uh, disagree. He’s extremely quick. He needs to be in full time like Clayborn was doing so he can work on his game. We’re babying him. Turn him loose full time.
I’m not sold on Clayborn other than his effort and nastiness. I can’t help wonder how he performs post knee surgery.
November 28th, 2012 at 2:23 pm
All in all the bucs were off against Atlanta and still lost by one point. Every person in this world has off days…even the best. Each player has to show up and play well. If the good Bucs show up we could def beat Denver….no question
November 28th, 2012 at 2:35 pm
Bucs appear to be back in the dumping salary mood again…so forget about Justin Babin. Thanks for posting Dave Moore’s on-point analysis because i keep forgetting to tune in & listen during that part of the day (for some reason…..LMAO!)
November 28th, 2012 at 2:44 pm
GMC is earning that paycheck, finally. He looks great out there.
The dude has no help, as Dom’s picks have not panned out…
4 draft picks, two 1st rounders, and two 2nd rounders all slowed by injuries.
We also picked up Haynesworth last year, shows how desperate we are for a passrush.
Unfortunately, we are going to be taking D-Linemen again in the draft, due to necessity.
Go Bucs! We are playing very well considering our roster limitations. First year in a new system, and these guys are battling, it is a new day in Buc Town.
We are playing very well considering our lack of better talent/competive depth at both CB and DLine.
November 28th, 2012 at 2:49 pm
This is what I’ve been talking about before. About having a true edge rusher that forces a QB to step up. Clayborn and Bowers do not fit that bill. They are mostly power/leverage type rushers that get more push than they do upfield explosion. Bennett does a decent job getting upfield but he is more of a leverage guy as well. The closest the Bucs have to an edge rusher is Dakoda Watson, who can hit the edge and force the QB to step up back into the pocekt.
A good pass rush is usually from the symbiotic relationship of having a good interior pass rusher to get the QB to drift back in the pocket, and a good edge rusher to force the QB to step up in the pocket. Currently, we have several plaers that get good push but can’t hit the edge and force the QB to step up.
In the Bucs best days, Rice ran the arc, and Sapp blew up the pocket, and QBs and OCs were scared. All we have now is a few guys that do a pretty good job pushing that pocket but nobody that can close the back end of it.
November 28th, 2012 at 2:52 pm
bucfanjeff Says:
November 28th, 2012 at 2:11 pm
Bowers a bull rusher? Uh, disagree. He’s extremely quick. He needs to be in full time like Clayborn was doing so he can work on his game. We’re babying him. Turn him loose full time.
I’m not sold on Clayborn other than his effort and nastiness. I can’t help wonder how he performs post knee surgery.
+++++++++
Uh, yeah, do you watch the games? I have yet to see Bowers beat an OT with his first step, run the arc and put pressure on the QB that way. Instead, he engages the OT, gets a step inside or outside and uses power and leverage to power himself to the QB. Bowers is no speed rusher and even he would tell you that. The Bucs have no pure speed rusher on their roster. The lsat time we had a speed rusher was Adams, the last time we had a good speed rusher wsa Rice.
November 28th, 2012 at 2:59 pm
Guys that can blow past the tackle are extremely rare. For every Von Miller there are ten Michael Bennetts. They aren’t at home sitting on the couch and they never hit free agency in their prime. If you don’t have a top ten pick in the draft you’re usually SOL on that front. I’m glad Schiano is focusing on the players he has and is likely able to get and not on dream players that only come around every once in a while.
November 28th, 2012 at 3:02 pm
Babin’s contract for the remainder of the season is less than Eric Wright’s withheld pay over the next four weeks.
Sign this guy, I don’t know how you sign Albery Haynesworth, but you don’t take a flyer on Babin…
I’d guesstimate that Schiano is calling the personnel shots 100% if we don’t sign Babin. We all know Dom would sign Haynesworth, so in logic the guy with 3rd most sacks since 2010 should be a no brainer, especially considering you have the allocated funds to afford him with Eric Wright’s suspension money being withheld.
Our pass defense was atroucious last week, and Leonard Johnson did not “loaf”, he had a miss-step… Tough to guard the best recieving trio in the NFC with minimal pass rush.
To BucFanJeff,
Don’t lunch on Adrian “Dog-Boy” Clayborn. That is one tough dude. I am looking forward to him coming back next year. He is an absolute warrior, and is a leader by example. Don’t be so quick to forgot he was the only positive on our Defense last year.
November 28th, 2012 at 3:06 pm
You guys disgust me sometimes, lol.
You turn on Clayborn because he wasn’t generating a rush early on before his injury, never mind that the line needed time to gel first. GMC (whom I never doubted would be good because I do not turn on players at the drop of a dime) was finally getting some quality playing time, but he still needed a few games to get things together.
Miller is a run stopper but does not generate much of a pass rush. Bowers opposite Clayborn at full tilt would have helped, but understandably the Bucs took their time because of injury.
Bennett is solid, but he’s not great. With a elite players along the rest of the line he would excel, but without that he’s high average at best. So Clayborn got injured and things got worse for a bit. Bowers is back and getting much needed experience.
But yet…you guys turn on Clayborn? Give me a brake, lol.
It reminds me of how quickly you ALL turned on Foster last year as well. As you might recall, a few of us spoke up for him as well. You were wrong then and you are wrong now. Clayborn will be a beast.
All we need is help at DT and a replacement for Black, along with one CB next year.
Then we can address depth on the oline.
November 28th, 2012 at 3:08 pm
I back SteveK 1000% on this one.
November 28th, 2012 at 3:29 pm
what you just said is one of the insanely idiotic things I have ever read . At no point in your rambling , incoherent respone were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought . Anyone who has read this is now dumber having read it . I award you no points and may god have mercy on your soul .
November 28th, 2012 at 3:34 pm
The D-line has to generate more pass rush. That’s why they get
killed on 3rd downs against good qb’s. Manning is going to have
a field day on Sunday.
November 28th, 2012 at 3:44 pm
@robert HAHAHAHA!!!!!! I peed a little!
If there is any attempt for either contestant to cheat, especially with my wife, who is a dirty, dirty, tramp, I am just gonna snap. Do I make myself clear?
November 28th, 2012 at 3:46 pm
Dano:
Don’t expect much improvement this week. Manning is going to three-step drop the Bucs to death. Nearly impossible to put a quarterback on the ground with a three-step drop unless there is good coverage. With the Bucs corners…
Well, you know. 🙁
November 28th, 2012 at 3:49 pm
SteveK:
Babin isn’t coming. You can just turn the page on that. Aside from being a pain in the arse, Babin can not play the run. Schiano will not tolerate that.
November 28th, 2012 at 3:50 pm
Brandon:
Bowers got a bull rush sack on Cam Newton two weeks ago.
November 28th, 2012 at 4:03 pm
Albert Einstein once said “The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results”
This should be framed and mounted at the Buccaneer Palace in at least a dozen key places. One in the defensive line’s meeting room, one over McCoy’s locker, at all the entrances, mounted on the goal posts, on the Gatorade jugs, in the weigh room, on the Little General’s desk, and trailed behind a plane circling the practice fields.
I remember the words of Thomas 2.2 who asked why does GMC burst threw the line and take himself out of the play time after time. Since he has a predilection for doing this, wouldn’t the opposing OL coach and OC game plan with this in mind.
They know by watching tape that he tires himself out by all that superflous disrupting and when they don’t want any penetration, they simply double team him and he takes the play off.
Does the Toreador freak out because the bull keeps charging or does he learn by experience that he can simply wave a red cape and direct the bull’s charges harmlessly away.
November 28th, 2012 at 4:04 pm
@Pete & SteveK: I wish I could throw a facepalm at both of you with an ascii text.
First of all, if you think Clayborn has ever been better than Michael Bennett you would be dead wrong. Clayborn played very well as a rookie, but never in any shape, way or form he outperformed Bennett. Check profootballfocus’ stats for the last two years, he has been one of the better 4-3 DEs in the league both at rushing and against the run, and has been miles ahead of other DEs in that area. But you sheeple are only concerned with the visible “sacks” stat, go ahead.
The conception that Bennett is just solid while Clayborn or Bowers are elite athletes, will do better with more playing time is just stupid. Just because those two guys were 1st round grade does not make them better.
The fact of the matter is, Bucs have no elite edge rusher at the moment. Jarvis Jones or Dion Jordan would bring the speed element to pass rushing in the next draft and I surely hope we get our hands on one of them.
November 28th, 2012 at 4:09 pm
I agree with Pete. We wouldn’t be asking him to learn the playbook. We would just want him to rush the passer. If the Bucs are serious about making a run for a playoff spot, they could use Babin for the last 5 games. but…..the problem is we don’t have the top waver priority and he probably won’t make it past waivers. So it is a moot point.
November 28th, 2012 at 4:18 pm
Dave Moore played in the league a long time, and he knows his stuff. He rarely goes off half cocked (like some media) spouting nonsense. Much like Steve White, when he speaks, I shut up and listen. If Dave Moore says it, I believe him, and in this case, that’s a positive.
Go Bucs!!!
November 28th, 2012 at 4:20 pm
Babin isn’t coming. He cannot stop the run at all. Schiano won’t put up with that.
November 28th, 2012 at 4:28 pm
Now Gary Shelton on the other hand, is blah, blah, blah. I like Gary but he keeps slamming our DE’s. I can’t agree with him other than we can use more depth. Uh Gary, we need CB’s in the worst possible way. Clayborn is relentless and was a bigger loss than Joseph. He is a worthy starter in this league. Bowers is looking better and Bennett can play well. I think one problem is OC’s are doubling the right players in a way that helps them. Maybe the Bucs are a little too predictable, even with blitzes, and some of these teams are well prepared with film of the Bucs. I believe the talent is there when we get Clayborn back next season.
Even though Suh is B-hole, there are trade rumors for him in the near future. I would surely trade highly for him. I think Schiano could focus Suh in the right direction and next to GMC would be crazy. I believe we need another big time DT more than DE. Just my opinion, no crucifixions please.
November 28th, 2012 at 4:31 pm
Miguel,
Your reference to Thomas 2.2 seems to be an inspirational point to you. Do aspire to be like Thomas 2.2? Do you read the writings of Thomas 2.2 and interpret these in the manner of let’s say Biblical passages?
Here are some interesting points of Thomas 2.2 historical value for you to ponder on.
With his mighty staff in hand Thomas 2.2 turned the Gatorade into water and everyone was amazed.
With his mighty staff in hand Thomas 2.2 turned to Pharaoh (Goodell) and said let my players go. He then led them out of Tampa to later be known as the exodus and in route to the promised land parted the waters of Tampa Bay.
Again, let me ask, do you aspire to be like Thomas 2.2?
November 28th, 2012 at 4:35 pm
Joe,
Babin isn’t coming. He cannot stop the run at all. Schiano won’t put up with that.
_________________________________
@Joe
Like I said he probably won’t clear waivers anyway and even if we did sign him, He should be used as a 3rd and long pass rusher, not an every down DE. Teo is more suited for the run.
November 28th, 2012 at 4:53 pm
@ Jonny3.3,
Clayborn is not to Bennett’s level, yet. He can get there, and didn’t Clayborn lead the Bucs in sacks last year with 7.5?
Please re-read my comment.I never dubbed Clayborn to be “better” than Bennett, nor Bennett to be “just-ok”.
Clayborn is a hard nosed guy, and a great example of a “Buccaneer Man”. I am confident he will be back with a vengence next year.
I was just pointing out our inadaguecies in drafting D-Linemen, and the more I think about a great majority of per 2012 2nd round picks.
Joe, thanks for the intel on Babin. I just don’t see the point in EVER signing Haynesworth, and not considering Babin?
We have trouble getting to the QB, why not give a guy with 30+ sacks since 2010 (3rd most in the game behind Clay Mathews and DeMarcus Ware) a chance?
I have to believe that Schiano and Davis are making roster decisions, because we just saw Dom take the bait last year or a lesser player with a worse attitude….
November 28th, 2012 at 5:00 pm
El Raton is Thomass 2.2’s sidekick. He feels someone must carry on and project the hapless.
November 28th, 2012 at 5:05 pm
BigMac
I agree. When Moore, Brooks, and White talk football, I listen, period!
November 28th, 2012 at 5:32 pm
I just like to think that Thomas 2.2 is up there watching us and I miss him. Rest in peace.
I only agreed with about 50% of his opinions and my own opinions are so much more important to me. I guess I am still an atheist at heart.
November 28th, 2012 at 5:56 pm
Big Mac,
Suh trade rumors? We would get him? I doubt that.
He is off his rocker. If he could focus his rage within the rules and the whistles, then he would be an unstoppable force.
November 28th, 2012 at 5:59 pm
Ok so it seems now if we want pressure, which we definitely need because our corner situation is bleak, we should Blitz or pray our line gets better. If we Blitz our best Blitzer appears to be Mason Foster, who isn’t that good in coverage, or Ronde Barber (who actually is good in coverage). I would like to leave Barber in coverage why not try Mark Barron he isn’t that good in coverage any way. Just my 2 cents.
November 28th, 2012 at 6:40 pm
McCoy has been fantastic. They need Clayborn back and a healthy Bowers with a year of practice under his belt.
Have a feeling they draft or sign another DE too, depending on what happens with Bennet. If they sign Bennet back, then I think they might go DT in the draft.
November 28th, 2012 at 7:22 pm
@SteveK: Your assertion that Clayborn was the only positive thing about defense last year is what made me include your name in . Most of that response however was directed at Pete Dutcher who never ceases to amaze me with his “genius” analysis and expert takes.
November 28th, 2012 at 7:34 pm
@Stevek,
Suh is definitely a headcase but he also has an engineering degree. I think he needs to mature more along with the right coaching. I don’t believe he is getting that in Detroit, and who in the world would want to live there. It is the number 1 enimal insertion point for the U.S. I believe Suh could easily aspire to be the best DT in the league. They said that Stafford is coming up for contract renewal and Megatron is already big money, so they may not be able to afford Suh, and aren’t happy with his antics. I believe the Bucs might take a chance on him if he came available. But then again, who knows, but it is nice to dream about Clayborn, GMC, Suh, & Bowers for a D line. I also heard the Lions like Fairley more than Suh, but again may just be rumors.
November 28th, 2012 at 7:40 pm
I like zone blitzes like they used to run where only 4 or 5 actually rush but it is difficult to figure out who comes in and who drops back. It appears that now that they have run more stunts and rush games that it takes too long and rarely gets to the QB. The Corner Blitzes have been pretty effective especially in the run game.
I really like Schiano’s demeanor and comments to the press when he says they will continue to work hard, get better, and prepare for their best game every week. He sure seems to have a great deal of faith in his players and team, as well as them reaching their potential.
November 29th, 2012 at 10:51 am
Jonny 3.3,
You are welcome to your opinion. You may be wrong or I may be right. Your problem is that you are the “what are you doing for me now?” type of fan instead of “What will you do for me tomorrow?”
Facepalm all you want. As I have often said (and been correct), time will prove me right. You can protest until you are blue in the face. It won’t matter. Why?
Because time will prove me right.
And, Joe…you protest too much…almost emotionally on the Babin thing.