Stocking Up On Draft Picks
November 2nd, 2012
The “rock star” did it again.
Yesterday when Joe learned the Bucs were able not just to trade away troubled, granny-hassling, helmet-wielding, gun-toting, cabbie-slugging, coach-cussing cornerback Aqib Talib, but get a great return for him, Joe thought it was remarkable.
Talib was only going to suit up for another handful of games, after which the Bucs surely were going to let him walk on his contract year. So the fact Bucs rock star general manager Mark Dominik was able to find anyone to cough up a draft pick for Talib was a pretty swift move. Then, Joe heard the Patriots and Bill Belicheat were parting with a fourth round pick; Joe couldn’t believe his ears!
If anything, Dominik has demonstrated an ability to con other general managers and purloin draft picks for bags of empty peanut shells.
Notice Dominik got a draft pick out of Brian Price, who is out of football. He got a conditional draft pick for disc-spinning Kellen Winslow, who is out of football. Hell, Dominik was able to swindle a second round pick for a guy who soon after would pass away.
But there is more to this saga then just stocking up on draft picks. Turn back the time machine to April when Dominik held extra poker chips during the NFL draft. It was with that extra collateral that Dominik traded up to grab Doug Martin, and trade up to grab Lavonte David, two pillars of the team that point to brighter days ahead.
Remember this transaction of Talib for a fourth round pick next spring when Dominik likely trades up for another solid pick.
Draft picks. Smart front office men want them. Everybody wants some. Everybody needs some.
November 2nd, 2012 at 8:35 am
What draft picks do we have right now going into next year?
November 2nd, 2012 at 8:36 am
Youd think pats fans just died and went to heaven after reading the responses made by fans already. Great move for EVERYONE involved. With the out with the old, in with the new sort of mindset you can clearly see that much of the focus is being placed on next year. Were gonna see some ugly ball for the rest of the year but thry are giving these shaky players experience, making depth much less of an achilles heel for this team. With a strong draft, healthy starters, and a deeper roster the bucs could be absolutely monstrous this time next year.
November 2nd, 2012 at 8:40 am
Pick or no pick eric wright being our #1 cb really sucks.
November 2nd, 2012 at 8:44 am
The pass away line was just cold Joe. Even for you.
November 2nd, 2012 at 8:45 am
We have picks rds 12344567 … FRICKEN ROCK STAR BABY !
lol
November 2nd, 2012 at 8:49 am
@Mavsmoney
We now have 2 extra 7th round picks (one from Seattle and one from Chi) and one extra 4th round from NE. So, we have 10 total, that extra 4th from NE should help us, as we can package it up with our 2nd rd pick to maybe get another 1st round pick , or package it with our 3rd pick to get an extra 2nd round pick from someone.
November 2nd, 2012 at 8:50 am
This past years draft class and exactly what Joe mentioned about getting something for nothing for k2 and the rest will keep ‘the rockstar’ around much longer. I wasn’t a big fan of the rock star during his first 2 years or so at GM but with what he’s been able to do and the fact he’s learning from his mistakes, I have no problem with keeping him around for the next few seasons.
Hell, no GM can do as bad as ours did in 2007/8. Dominik being Allen’s successor only makes his job easier.
November 2nd, 2012 at 8:55 am
We gave up a 7th with talib for a 4th. Remember, sometimes two 4th rounders will get you a stocker and a 4th and a 2 will get you a Benn. I hope this 4th gets us a Williams. Also our 7th from seatle was canceled since he was not on their opening day roster.
November 2nd, 2012 at 8:57 am
@Amar
Allen was a cap guy, he wasn’t a talent evaluator, nor was he involved with the actual selecting of players for the draft, that was all up to Chucky and his scouting staff. Chucky has never been a good evaluator of talent, the Raiders were built by Al Davis, and when given the chance to build his own team here in Tampa, Chucky failed miserably.
November 2nd, 2012 at 8:59 am
“Hell, Dominik was able to swindle a second round pick for a guy who soon after would pass away.”
You’ve gotta be kidding me, Joe. In your lauding of Dom’s trading prowess you list the Gaines Adams trade as an example? An unpredictable and tragic death of a young man? A truly absurd and disrespectful remark.
November 2nd, 2012 at 9:00 am
@mike
The trade to Seattle wasn’t conditional, it was straight-up Winslow for a 7th rounder, why would it cancel if Seattle cut him before opening day?
November 2nd, 2012 at 9:04 am
“Hell, Dominik was able to swindle a second round pick for a guy who soon after would pass away.”
Callous, insensitive.
RIP Gaines.
November 2nd, 2012 at 9:08 am
The condition was that if he was on the roster it would turn into a 6th. So we basically traded winslow and talib all for a single 4th rounder? Good deal? Not so sure.
November 2nd, 2012 at 9:13 am
@bucsfaninchina
The condition was that if he was on the roster it would turn into a 6th.
That doesn’t mean we lose the 7th rounder, it just means it doesn’t turn into a 6th rounder.
November 2nd, 2012 at 9:17 am
Sorry flmike,
We have no extra 7th round picks now. The pick from Seattle went out of the window when Winslow did not make the week 1 active roster and we shipped the 7th we got for Price to the Pats with the Talib trade. Still a good deal tho!
November 2nd, 2012 at 9:17 am
Hey Joe,
“Hell, Dominik was able to swindle a second round pick for a guy who soon after would pass away.”
Whats wrong with you man? Was that an attempt at being funny?
It reads like Dominik knew Adams would unfortunately die and he conned the Bears into giving up a draft pick before it happened. Totally not the case.
November 2nd, 2012 at 9:19 am
Oh quit this”faux outrage” over a true comment by Joe about Gaines Adams. He didn’t say he’s glad Gaines is dead or insulted him personally; he merely pointed out a indisputable fact. Gaines Adams under performed while in Tampa (due to his high draft status) and was teetering on draft “bust” category when he was traded. The fact that the Bucs got a 2nd round pick for him was a total steal. The fact that he passed away while tragic has nothing to do with Joe’s point. Stop this nonsense of being “offended” on someone else’s behalf. People are turning into a society of 6 year old school girls.
November 2nd, 2012 at 9:23 am
I can’t find anywwhere on the internet where it says we lose the 7th round pick from Seattle if Winslow isn’t on the opening day roster, the only thing I have found is, if he was to make the roster it would move up to a 6th round pick. Who would ever trade someone for basically nothing, in that case we just gave Winslow to Seattle for a looksy, also, what would keep Seattle from cutting him on August 31 and then resigning him Sept 14. That would make absolutely no sense what so ever to trade him then, might as well have just waived him.
November 2nd, 2012 at 9:24 am
The Winslow 7th round pick with Seattle was conditional. If he was on the roster we got the pick, if he wasn’t we didn’t – and he wasn’t.
So Raphael above is correct – 1 2 3 4 4 5 6 7
November 2nd, 2012 at 9:27 am
Seattle did waive Winslow, as did the Patriots. He’s in the unemployment line and his career is pretty much over. It takes two to make a deal and Seattle was the only one to give us even that much.
November 2nd, 2012 at 9:27 am
@Matthew
I’m glad you can deem what’s “faux” and what’s genuine. Your authentically macho outlook on blogging is a refreshing take on what the liberal agenda has done to this country…
Joe’s comment was classless, that’s all there is to it. This website is an ongoing dialogue amongst Bucs fans and more than a few readers were rubbed the wrong way by the remark. I’m pretty sure Joe didn’t mean to come off as an insensitive prick, but that’s how it seems to have been interpreted.
November 2nd, 2012 at 9:34 am
“Hell, Dominik was able to swindle a second round pick for a guy who soon after would pass away.”
That’s a very hard and offensive line.
November 2nd, 2012 at 9:35 am
flmike,
For your review.
http://seattle.sbnation.com/seattle-seahawks/2012/9/4/3291393/seahawks-kellen-winslow-trade-nfl
November 2nd, 2012 at 9:36 am
@joe Classless
November 2nd, 2012 at 9:36 am
That’s my BOY!!! DOMO comin throught in the end again. I best wishes AT you think NSO was wait until your in BILLY LAND<<<<<
November 2nd, 2012 at 9:36 am
The Dom is pretty good at getting draft picks I must say.
November 2nd, 2012 at 9:38 am
@bucfanjeff
The condition was if he was on the roster the pick would escalate to 6th rounder, that doesn’t change the fact that we get the 7th rounder. Again, if the case was the total trade would cancel if he were waived/cut prior to opening day, what would keep any team from doing what I said above, just cut him Aug 31 and resign him Sept 14 without owing your trade partner anything.
November 2nd, 2012 at 9:40 am
Bucs4life; there was no mention of “liberal agenda” so pot meet kettle on who’s deeming intentions of another’s comment. There’s nothing macho about my statement; it’s merely a statement of the facts at hand.
If you get “easily offended” by a SPORTS website mentioning an indisputable fact that occurred then yes I seriously think you have issues and should likely seek treatment. We just disagree as to what we use our outrage for or when we take offense to something. You and a few others apparently let a factual statement on a sports website get under your skin spurn you to be upset. I tend to save my offense taking to matters that actually matter. It takes all kinds to make the world go round I guess.
The best part when something “offends” you is that you can do something about it…Stop reading it.
November 2nd, 2012 at 9:43 am
@Macabee
Thanks, I wasn’t able to find that.
So, the whole trade was conditional, it wasn’t as first reported as a 7th rounder, it was for a conditional 6th. Guess someone is going to have to tell the NFL offices, as they still have it listed as 7th round TB (From Seattle).
November 2nd, 2012 at 9:46 am
Joe,
Please do not cave. You owe no one an apology. You wrote nothing classless; you merely wrote the facts. If you guys truly care so much for Gaines Adams that you are outraged by a blog article, I suggest you do something worthwhile about it and donate to the Sudden Cardiac Arrest Foundation http://www.sca-aware.org/ (What Gaines died from) instead talking tough in a comments section pretending to be “upset”.
November 2nd, 2012 at 9:50 am
Well the remark is not a good way to keep people coming back to a site where visits = money.
November 2nd, 2012 at 9:52 am
Bucs4life said
“Hell, Dominik was able to swindle a second round pick for a guy who soon after would pass away.”
You’ve gotta be kidding me, Joe. In your lauding of Dom’s trading prowess you list the Gaines Adams trade as an example? An unpredictable and tragic death of a young man? A truly absurd and disrespectful remark.
I second it….probably not your high point,but I think you should consider revising that statement.
@Matthew, I agree stop reading it if it offends you. I wouldn’t say that I was personally offended by the remark, but it certainly seemed uncalled for. Could have easily just mentioned Gaines as a 2nd round pick from the bears. My problem with it is that I know Chicago fans who actually felt the Bucs staff had knowledge of Gaines’ health condition and did in fact “swindle” a pick for a player who was at minimum going to be sideined due to his condition. His death was untimely, and he was a good man player or not
November 2nd, 2012 at 9:56 am
Rabble rabble rabble
November 2nd, 2012 at 9:57 am
Good article minus the line though. Glad to see that Dominick is stockpiling, if e can have another draft like the one we just had then we will be in good shape. Loving the direction of the team!! Go BUCS!!!
November 2nd, 2012 at 9:58 am
Now if Dominik could build some quality depth with these picks the Bucs wouldn’t be in such shambles when it comes to getting torched by QB’s. Pass defense will struggle (still) but at least Cab driver’s in the Bay area are safer now.
November 2nd, 2012 at 9:59 am
Have to agree with Matthew. A lot of oversensitive types around here. The Gaines Adams trade was a steal before Adams died. … Joe presenting it the way he did here was hardly offensive, and factual.
November 2nd, 2012 at 10:05 am
@Matthew
As I highlighted earlier, this sports website features an active and engaged comments section where fellow fans, for better or worse, get acquainted with each other. Joe has done a fantastic job of responding to our remarks and has achieved a familiarity with his readers that newspapers and most blogs could not. Your contrarian and, I must say, passioned stance is an example of this. My point is, yeah it’s just a sports blog, but this team and even this blog is important to a lot of us and the comment was patently classless. You mention that society is devolving; how would you expect the American public would’ve reacted if a similar comment was included in sports article 50 years ago? Objectively, “Hell, Dominik was able to swindle a second round pick for a guy who soon after would pass away,” implies Dominik made a good trade because he received a 2nd round pick and only gave up a soon to be corpse in return. I’m sorry, but if this website is supposed to be a community of Bucs fans and we’re supposed to be engaged with the writer, we’re going to speak up when we read something that rubs us the wrong way. It’s not outrage (no one is calling for Joe to take down the article or worse), it’s just an understandable discomfort with an out of character and callous remark.
But please, continue to remind us that we’re just sensitive nancies on sports website.
November 2nd, 2012 at 10:07 am
I enjoy your site, but the comment about Gaines Adams is classless and off mark.
November 2nd, 2012 at 10:14 am
Surprised (but shouldn’t be) by the outrage here on Joe’s comment about the Adams trade. It was completely in context and it was an incredibly great trade before Adams died. Nobody in their right mind thinks Dominik knew of Adams’ heart condition and there’s no reason to think Joe is putting that on him. Joe’s always on his knees for his precious rockstar, so that makes anyone thinking that even more ridiculous.
Adams died. He’s dead. Is it insensitive to every mention that as it relates to Bucs history.
I swear. The world’s gone freakin’ mad.
November 2nd, 2012 at 10:31 am
Sad about the comment but is it really to soon
November 2nd, 2012 at 10:31 am
As far as Winslow’s trade goes, according to the Seahawks article posted above, and quoting Stephen Holder of Tampa Bay Times….. we get nothing. While people point out that it is illogical for the Bucs or anyone to do a trade like that, we did put in a clause to protect against Seattle “shenanigans” (cutting him before opening day and resigning him. The language of the trade simply needed to state that IF he is on the roster for Seattle at ANY time during the year, NOT just opening day, though opening day would have sealed the pick for us. That’s according to the article at least.
My eyeballs popped out of my head on the Gaines Adams remark. I’m not offended, but it could or should have been worded better, as it can be read to imply that Bucs had some knowledge of his condition or that he was ill somehow, and then we took advantage of Chicago! Obviously not true, and an ugly thought. NOT what JOE intended to say, but it caused a mess with some readers.
BTW, politics have nothing to do with being offended by something, if you think it does…… you are a actually the sensitive baby that is offended by what you “think” other peoples values are, so STFU!!!!!
November 2nd, 2012 at 10:34 am
Heaping praise on Dom Joe? Please. Getting consolation picks for top round busts is a false economy.
Hickey and Dom blow out loud asessing talent. You might want to browse through your own archives as a reminder.
Notice this success of this year’s draft? What changed? Schiano and Davis showed up.
November 2nd, 2012 at 10:36 am
I think Dom did a fantastic job in getting a 2nd rounder for Adams. Gaines was stinking it up for us and getting a 2nd was a home run. It’s terribly sad that he died, but he was no way worth a 2nd. RIP Gaines.
November 2nd, 2012 at 10:40 am
The Gaines comment IS classless, because it indicates the the deal was a good deal BECAUSE he happened to pass away. That is not why the deal was good. Getting a 2nd for a bust is why it was good.
The following comment would not be:
Hell, Dominik was able to swindle a second round pick for a first round bust (who would tragically then pass away).
November 2nd, 2012 at 10:52 am
BrianW
Exactly, thats what I was trying to say. Not offended, more like did he reall just say that….like that. Wording was everythin and it was not worded correctly. I spent 10 years in the military, so I am not overly sensitive, nor am I easily offended. Just did not expect that on this site.
@Mogan
You make a good pint. Nothing like a little controversy to generate a little extra revenue on a low news day.
@Joe
I agree that it was some great wheeling and dealing getting that 2nd pick for a 1st round bust. Equally impressive getting a 4th for an immature free agent who has proven his lack of ability to learn from his mistakes.
November 2nd, 2012 at 10:55 am
I think all my keys are stuck! I do not usually spell that bad, slowwwwwww dowwwwwn. Must have happened when I involuntaily spit my coffee out after reading the Gaines quote!
November 2nd, 2012 at 10:58 am
Again to those who think it’s classless-
Sudden Cardiac Arrest Foundation http://www.sca-aware.org
(What Gaines died from)
If the mere mention of his passing gets you upset; then put your wallet where your outrage is and do something about it. “Either way…” Colonel Jessup voice
Now back to sports & figuring out if our Buc’s can stop Denarius Moore from burning Biggers all game Sunday.
November 2nd, 2012 at 11:02 am
Fatmosh,
That’s probably what he intended to say.
“Hell, Dominik was able to swindle a second round pick for a first round bust (who would tragically then pass away).”
So just let the last sentence of the 4th paragraph just work its way off the front page…
No big deal.
November 2nd, 2012 at 11:04 am
Maybe Joe should just go ahead and lock this comment section… no need to pile on on the wrong subject and make it out to be more than it already is.
I think we ALL can agree Mark D is a rockstar. Agreed collectively. Lock post.
November 2nd, 2012 at 11:14 am
@FLMIKE…. the bucs get NOTHING for Winslow because he was cut by seatle….sorry!! The good news is there was no such condition on the brian price trade so we keep that 7th.
November 2nd, 2012 at 11:23 am
@JOE, i’d love for you to do some digging on the compensatory draft pick issue. if i recall, the bucs could have gotten a draft pick as high as the 3rd round by lettting talib walk into free agency at year’s end. if that benefit now goes to the pats, they easily won this deal. they get a midseason upgrade at CB, a 7th round pick, and possibly a compensatory pick. even if said pick is a 5th rounder, that’s good value for a pick that will end up being in the bottom 5 or 10 of the 4th round
November 2nd, 2012 at 11:27 am
also, it’s tragic that gaines adams died, but even if he had played at the level he did as a buc for another 5-7 years in chicago, that trade would still have to be viewed as a huge win for the bucs
November 2nd, 2012 at 11:48 am
skp:
Exactly!
Adams was a swing and a miss by Monte Kiffin. The fact that Dominik was able to thieve the Bears out of a second round pick for him still makes Joe chuckle.
November 2nd, 2012 at 11:56 am
I didn’t read the Gaines/trade passage as what you guys are making it out…only a classless, insensitive bore would write it that way…I read it as a statement of fact.
Maybe it could’ve been more artfully put, but…ironically, the overblown hubbub in here reminds me a bit of the (sorry) comical “Radio Raheem” “controversy” from a couple years ago—when a certain Bucs blogger actually thought a national sports anchor would willingly call a professional coach mentally challenged, when he was referencing something different altogether. Simple statement of facts, nothing to see here…the fact he didn’t bring up Gaines’ name I thought was the attempt @ class (which landed, IMO).
I love me some Dominik…but lauding him for getting a 7th rounder off a recent 2nd-rounder (Price) is a little specious @ best. Price was fat, came from a terrible background, & could never play the nose. & I’m still not sure giving up a 2nd+ for 2 bad knees & one horrific attitude was a good deal either. So caveats galore…
November 2nd, 2012 at 12:04 pm
Nothing to apologize for Joe! These posts who are angry with you are great examples of the sissification of America!
November 2nd, 2012 at 12:37 pm
Now everybody go pick up thier trophy!
November 2nd, 2012 at 12:38 pm
………for participating!
November 2nd, 2012 at 12:46 pm
I seem to remember the Rockstar moving up to select Josh Freeman, who most projected as a middle round (3-5th round) pick.
That pick was not so good. It seems that Dominick doesn’t have the patience to play with the big boys.
He did pick the Bear’s pocket with the Adams trade but it was still a horrendous 1st round selection to begin with. The Glazers really screwed the pooch when they wouldn’t let Gruden move up to select Megatron and let Monte Kiffen select the #1.
November 2nd, 2012 at 12:47 pm
A great trade? Maybe, maybe not. We’ll never know if the great Rod Marinelli could have gotten more production from Gaines Adams. He knows defensive lineman and traded for him. You have to add into his failings here the horrible Jim Bates experiment to switch schemes and not having the players for it(ie; Adams for one). Remember he was entering his third year and probably would have improved in Tampa-2. I remember hearing Derrick Brooks talk about how he thought Adams was improving and that he thought he would have with the Bears.
November 2nd, 2012 at 12:49 pm
Well you know what they say about hindsight………..
November 2nd, 2012 at 12:49 pm
Laughing at the guys who think this was some attempt for Joe to generate traffic on a slow news day. … You really think the day after Talib is traded is a slow news day?? And how does a one-liner bring people to a website? I’m a nurse and I promise you my limited media knowledge says otherwise. Reading that remark I never would have imagined so many would have had a canary.
November 2nd, 2012 at 1:28 pm
@Miguel
“I seem to remember the Rockstar moving up to select Josh Freeman, who most projected as a middle round (3-5th round) pick.”
That’s one of the silliest things I’ve seen you write. The Broncos were licking their chops to draft him one spot after us. Don’t be ridiculous.
November 2nd, 2012 at 1:38 pm
To everyone commenting on the Gaines remark, I’m sorry but that comment was a) in bad taste and b) poorly written.
“Hell, Dominik was able to swindle a second round pick for a guy who soon after would pass away.”
I’m sorry but my initial visceral reaction to that comment was that Joe was giving credit to Dom for trading a guy he knew was going to die. Obviously, that not what Joe actually meant to say but thats how I read it.
Joe simply needed to type, “Hell, Dominik was able to swing a second round pick for the underachieving late Gaines Adams” and this controversy wouldve been avoided. I think everybody, even Joe, can admit that this was a lazy yet harmless mistake at best and a tasteless and poorly written attempt to make a joke.
I’m not going to hold it against Joe, stop reading & commenting on the site or lambaste the Joes with anymore comments but the comment was sufficiently egregious enough to comment on.
November 2nd, 2012 at 1:49 pm
Joe,
Sorry, but I’m going to have to call you out for not posting the absolute best rendition of “Everybody Wants Some”. This is the version you should have gone with http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LgnhkxxYZv8
November 2nd, 2012 at 2:13 pm
if we use 2 4th round draft picks to draft a luke stocker, then it wasnt a good trade.
November 2nd, 2012 at 2:56 pm
I don’t think the readers have a problem stating the fact that the Dom was able to get a 2nd rd pk for a under performing player. It was the insensitive, glib way it was written that many of us found offensive.
“Hell, Dominik was able to swindle a second round pick for a guy who soon after would pass away.”
November 2nd, 2012 at 3:12 pm
He HAS to get someone in the draft with this pick somehow. No choice.
November 2nd, 2012 at 3:19 pm
Someone who will make a positive impact on this team that is
November 2nd, 2012 at 3:37 pm
@ Mike. That’s what I was thinking earlier today (Stocker). But 4th rounders were in the wheeling and dealing to get Muscle Hamster and also to select David. Both big contributors on 2012 team.
November 2nd, 2012 at 4:02 pm
Van Halen can thank the Kinks for two of their biggest hits.
November 2nd, 2012 at 5:05 pm
Who are some possible CB draft picks we could get? Prospects
November 2nd, 2012 at 5:13 pm
Please, when I die, make racist comments, spit on me, flush my ashes, and know that I don’t give a damn because I’ll have my hands full in hell, but I don’t like pineapple.
See you soon Warren.
November 2nd, 2012 at 6:22 pm
I am also really offended by th Gaines Adam remark.
That is DaQuan Bowers good friend man! And someones son! How can u make such a heartless, Kansas City like, comment? Its sad.
We are Buccaneer men! We are better than that.
Jah Bless your soul Gaines.
1-2-3 Family!