John Kasay > Ronde Barber
May 20th, 2012
Joe probably would ignore a public slap at Bucs icon Ronde Barber if it came from a BSPN reporter who had no playing experience. But Joe can’t sit idly by while Barber is shamed on NFL.com by a former player.
NFL.com columnist Bucky Brooks, who played five seasons in the 1990s, has churned out a list of the top NFL players 35 years old and older. Eight players were given kudos from Brooks. John Kasay, the NFL’s 22nd best field goal kick last year at 82 percent conversion, was given love; Barber was omitted.
This is such a stunning oversight Joe hopes Brooks apologizes and adds Barber to his story. Brooks is better than this.
First off, how is a barely average kicker selected over Barber? The guy is the NFL’s reigning ironman, and arguably was the best defensive player on his team last year and he won on a Defensive Player of the Week honor in 2011.
A kicker?
May 20th, 2012 at 8:50 am
Well Reed is only 33. So the load of bull is only directed at Barber.
THanks, Vince. Joe was still clearing cobwebs. –Joe
May 20th, 2012 at 8:53 am
Brooks is relevant because…………?
May 20th, 2012 at 9:02 am
In draftnik circles Brooks is widely scoffed at because his first mock or two usually leaves a sure-fire top 10 talent out of the first round only to have people openly quesiton it and then the prospect suddenly emerges in his next version of his mock. He doesn’t do much homework, and like Cris Carter, he doesn’t spend much time on his lists nor does he run the lists by anybody else.
It isn’t that he is slightly Barber, he probably forgot as Brooks is not thorough what-so-ever. I’m sure if anybody emails him or continually posts on the comments section, Barber will magically appear on the list of guys just missing the cut.
Considering Barber’s position, he should be given a lot more respect. Kickers routinely play into their late 30’s, so do QBs, any list of players over 35 should exclude kickers and punters and take QBs with a grain of salt.
May 20th, 2012 at 9:04 am
BTW, isn’t calling John Kasay “John Kasey” a slight as well? Not that I care too much, he’s a freaking kicker!
May 20th, 2012 at 9:13 am
Bucky Brooks is second rate, but he’s got a damn big stage. NFL.com is really slipping lately, goign all TMZ and putting out a lot of weak stuff.
May 20th, 2012 at 9:18 am
wow this is pathetic for “bucky” brooks, I have no ide what this guy is thinking putting the 22nd ranked kicker in the league on this list, thats disrespect to Ronde! This isn’t a big deal because its bucky brooks, but it still blows my mind..
May 20th, 2012 at 9:36 am
Barber has always been underrated by non-Buc fans. Get used to it guys…he’s gonna get snubbed from the HoF every year too.
May 20th, 2012 at 10:11 am
Just goes to show you that “experts” don’t know anymore than the average fan.
May 20th, 2012 at 10:35 am
JOe, just because they played, doesn’t make them an expert.
But becuase he played, it could be the old head injury giving notice that he needs help and guidance, of course a recent head injury could do the same, in either case he is at least a quart low.
May 20th, 2012 at 10:42 am
Agree that this is cruel oversight. WTF? No way Brooks forgot Barber is in the league.
May 20th, 2012 at 10:50 am
Just one more reason not to pay attention to BSPN…
May 20th, 2012 at 10:52 am
I’m going to switch gears and a la Joe speak in the 1st person. This warrants it. Cmurda will not compare a kicker to a sure fire Hall of Famer in the NFL’s toughest position to play, cornerback. With a league that has grown more pass happy each year, Barber has been a rock. His tackling ability may have fallen off a bit but he’s still a sure tackler and he has a nose for the ball as much now as he has in the past. Barber not only deserves to be on the list but towards the top of the list. I don’t know Bucky Brooks but Joe says he’s better than this. Is he?
May 20th, 2012 at 11:06 am
If he’s judging by the last 2 years, then yah. Ronde’s play has fallen off the last couple of years.
Don’t forget that just last year he was neck to neck with jackson for the league lead in missed tackles.
May 20th, 2012 at 11:07 am
if he’s judging the whole career, then Ronde deserves the list.
May 20th, 2012 at 11:10 am
Gah, its worse than I had imagined, Ronde’s play has fallen off a long time ago. 2008 even http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2011/07/21/missed-tackles-three-year-bests-and-worsts/
May 20th, 2012 at 11:23 am
Not that I think Barber should have been on the list, but anything Bucky Brooks writes is irrelevant as his words generally prove ignorance over wisdom.
May 20th, 2012 at 11:46 am
@paul
Look at the total number of tackles by Ronde compared to the other guys on that list. I think his missed tackle rate is inflated by the fact he is not afraid to try to make a tough or impossible tackle.
May 20th, 2012 at 11:49 am
Bucky Brooks, you effing suck and you are a moron.
John Kasay is not better then Ronde.
Sheep will be sheep.
May 20th, 2012 at 12:06 pm
@BraveBuc Those tackle stats were ranked by attempts/miss. Barber got a 6.07 which means he missed 1 tackle for every 6 attempts. That is good for 9th worse for defensive backs over the given time period.
Someone of similar age and tackle stats is Antoine Winfield. He had 204 attempts(two more than Barber) and 13 missed tackles(31 less than Barber). He has a tackle ratio of 19.08 which means he missed 1 tackle for every 19 attempts. That is good for 7th best.
The numbers aren’t inflated. For whatever the reason maybe, Ronde just misses a crap ton of tackles these days.
May 20th, 2012 at 12:46 pm
Terrible journalism. Then again, I am sure he doesn’t know the first thing about journalism.
May 20th, 2012 at 12:50 pm
Maybe he got the twins mixed up and got him mixed up with tiki but ronde is def a top tier player yucky brooks can chill
May 20th, 2012 at 12:55 pm
Not surprised. Ronde is one of the top underrated players of his era.
May 20th, 2012 at 1:36 pm
Not sure what is so surprising and why so much hate for Bucky. This is nothing mroe than his list of opinions. Means nothing and as some already said.. Ronde has ALWAYS been snubbed and looked over. I believe he will make the HoF but not til long after he becomes eligible… if he would of played in NY, or some other big market you can bet your last dollar he would have much more respect around the league… dam shame.
May 20th, 2012 at 1:38 pm
@Have A Nice Day
My point was, look at the total number of tackles of the players on the “Bottom 15 Defensive Backs”. I don’t think Ronde deserves to be considered in the same group as those guys in terms of tackling ability.
Getting a ball carrier down isn’t just about after you touch him you know. A lot of it is getting into position to make the play. Ronde still has a knack for that. He’ll also make an attempt when some players (like many on the bucs last year) would just turn around for an easier angle 20 yards further down the field.
It is also not easy to make tackles in open space against a quality running back. Something I remember Ronde trying to do a lot last year thanks to the teams terrible pursuit.
I’m not saying Ronde is what he used to be or that he’s still a top tier player. I’m disagreeing with the assumption some people are making about his current tackling ability based off of a single stat in a vacuum. He’s not the best tackling DB in the league anymore but he’s certainly not one of the worst either.
May 20th, 2012 at 1:55 pm
@BraveBuc Again, it still doesn’t change the fact that Barber misses a lot of tackles. You can say it is because he is hustling, knows where the ball carrier will be, etc. It does not it the fact that he misses an awful lot of tackles.
Those stats are not in a vacuum at all. If these stats were looking at it from a purely “who missed the most total tackles” basis then yes, I would agree with you. But they are not. They are applying attempts to misses.
The example I gave was Winfield who is about the same age with more attempts who had less than half as many misses. McFadden and Tillman are also at the top of the list and have roughly the same amount of attempts as Barber and no where near as many misses. Barber had similar attempts but over twice as many misses. That is not a vacuum.
May 20th, 2012 at 1:58 pm
As far as Barber being in a position to make the play, yes, he is in position to make the play more than most, but he also misses making those plays far more than most.
May 20th, 2012 at 2:06 pm
@Have A Nice Day
“Bottom 15 Defensive Backs”
not
“Top 15 Defensive Backs”
May 20th, 2012 at 2:12 pm
Why are you comparing his tackle numbers to the players with the best numbers in the league when I’m just trying to say he’s not one of the worst like the miss per attempt stat suggests?
May 20th, 2012 at 2:44 pm
Face it guys, no one outside Tampa gives a crap about the Bucs
May 20th, 2012 at 3:27 pm
Your reasoning was ‘Barber has more chances to tackle and that is a good reason to miss more tackles’ so I gave examples of guys who have relatively the same amount of tackles and way less misses. The comparison is clear.
That stat shows clearly that no DB with more than 133 tackles over those three years had a worse tackling ratio. There are at least 50 other DBs with more tackles than that over that time frame. Barber is at the very bottom of attempts per miss if the perimeters are 134 tackles or more. Does that make sense? That means of all the DBs that have 200 or more tackles, Barber still missed more than all of them.
If this stat line included this past year, Barber would look even worse.
To say that Barber is among the worst in missed tackles per attempt is not a lie or a stretch of truth. It is fact.
May 20th, 2012 at 3:41 pm
Ronde Barber is sometimes the best player on the field!
May 20th, 2012 at 5:50 pm
@Have A Nice Day
No that was not my reasoning. Please do not put words in my mouth.
Regardless of blame, you have misunderstood every post I have made so lets just drop it.
May 20th, 2012 at 5:55 pm
It’s because Ronde is smart and he is always in the right position. But he gets out physicaled at contact.
May 20th, 2012 at 6:27 pm
Now the Have A Nice Broad is bashing Ronde Barber. I don’t understand, because this is a team sport, and even the best defenders have sub par seasons without a supporting cast. The only thing I have seen with Barber lately is that his speed is not what it was, and he tires on long runs. But so what, he more than makes up for it with knowledge and football awareness.
As Aretha said, “Don’t you blaspheme in here! Don’t blaspheme!”
There is a cure for this, and it is the old Monti Buc Ball use of gang tackling.
May 20th, 2012 at 6:32 pm
Why is this chick. aka Cardiologist, in here slumming it with guys, and saying things to pick fights in the first place? I think she needs to find a husband that knows how to take care of his bidness. Buy yourself a new vibrator already. Sheez…..
May 20th, 2012 at 6:37 pm
Further more………
Who the hell are you to criticize an Icon like Ronde Barber???
Really!!! WTF? You are so lost. The Bucs would not have beat the Eagles and gone on to the Super Bowl without Ronde. I 100% believe the Brass at 1 Buc Place know a helluva lot more about players and production on the field than some broad that spends her time insulting real men on a football blog.
Get with the program or get lost lady.
May 20th, 2012 at 6:43 pm
I apologize to all the JoeBucFandom out there for the rant, but I’d rather take a 12 hour plane ride on a C130 with Thomas 2.2, than read another one of her ridiculous annoying posts.
May 20th, 2012 at 6:54 pm
@BraveBuc I understand what you are saying, but you misunderstand what the stats show. He misses a lot of tackles in comparison to the rest of NFL DBs.
May 20th, 2012 at 6:55 pm
Most corners clean up plays, take down receivers on the catch, and push people out of bounds.
Ronde meets them in hole, still covers a tremendous amount of ground, he attempts a bunch of tackles I don’t see other cornerbacks doing.
A lot of those missed tackles are ones that should have been made by a linebacker or a defensive lineman. You can’t put that all on Ronde.
May 20th, 2012 at 7:21 pm
@BigMacAttack There is my man 🙂 I missed you.
I wasn’t bashing Barber. Just pointing out his missed tackles. Personally, I think Barber is a great man and can still be an asset to the team regardless of his missed tackles.
The stats shown were over a 3 season period(2008 – 2010) not including last season. So this is not just about last year.
As for your gang tackling theory, I tend to agree.
I never wrote anything about Barber not being worthwhile. I never wrote we would not have gone to the championships without him. I never wrote he was a bad player. Why are you so upset when none of those things were written?
All I did was point out stats. The rest you made up.
“Why is this chick. aka Cardiologist, in here slumming it with guys….” There go again putting me on a pedestal again. It is quite flattering, but I don’t consider simple comments as “slumming it. Why would I want to leave when you continue to compliment me? 😉
May 20th, 2012 at 7:22 pm
@aj First relevant argument yet. You could teach BigMac a thing or two.
May 20th, 2012 at 7:54 pm
Ronde had better stats than Winfield last season. Look at ints, pdef, and tackles. Win has only played 16 games in 7 of his 13 seasons. Ronde hasn’t missed a game in 15 years. Winfield is only 34 and never been considered close to being elite, or won’t get a whiff of HOF. In his career he has 7 sacks and 24 Ints, and Ronde has 27 sacks and 43 ints. Winfield has not outperformed Barber in any season since he came into the league, including 2011′ when he played in 5 games, I repeat 5 games. What is a CB’s primary focus and responsibility? Not on the field = no production.
You just an “F” in research HAND.
May 20th, 2012 at 8:08 pm
@BigMacAttack I wouldn’t argue any of that. I never did argue any of that. I only spoke of his attempts/misses ratio. That is what this was all about until you went on another menstruation rage.
You are arguing with yourself again, sweetheart. But please comeback when you have something relevant to the topic at hand. M’kay? 🙂
May 20th, 2012 at 8:34 pm
@BiggieMacSmalls I agree with practically everything in your last post.
May 21st, 2012 at 10:40 am
Cmurda:
That’s third person.