“Best Running Back I Ever Graded”
April 17th, 2012
Former Cleveland Browns scout turned senior draft guru for The Sporting News and a noted author, Russ Lande, delivered powerful commentary yesterday during an interview with Todd Wright on WQYK-AM 1010.
Lande very much captured the raging passion of the Morris Claiborne vs. Trent Richardson debate.
While saying Richardson is “the best running back I ever graded” since he began evaluating the entire league in 1994, when asked by Wright to play Bucs GM and pick for Tampa Bay, Lande said, “you have to look elsewhere” and not pick Richardson.
Lande was struck by Richardson’s greatness and NFL-readiness on all levels and raved about his blocking, but he cited too many teams having success with running backs grabbed in later rounds. Cornerback and offensive tackle are positions Lande has no problem drafting with the fifth overall pick.
Joe remains focused on the Bucs at cornerback and Morris Claiborne. Having at least one great cornerback is critical, especially in the NFC South. Ronde Barber and Aqib Talib likely are gone in 2013, and Eric Wright is not a great cornerback. Myron Lewis and E.J. Biggers are not superstars-in-waiting, so Joe would find it impossible to not snatch Claiborne if he’s sitting there at No. 5.
April 17th, 2012 at 11:03 am
My God, how shocking that joebucsfan.com has written another article about drafting Claiborne over Richardson. I’m simply amazed!
Seriously guys, it’s time for some new material.
April 17th, 2012 at 11:14 am
thank you, for giveig another perspective on the issue we all keep talking about, somone who can credibly say rihardson is awesome, but we shouldnt take him.
April 17th, 2012 at 11:16 am
@ kaput
We’re talking about a potentially franchise-changing series of events here. Would you rather hear about the OTAs that are closed off to the media? Or how VJax gives back to the community? LOL what else is there to talk about besides the Draft?
April 17th, 2012 at 11:24 am
Yeah, and we should take the advice from someone who used to draft for the Browns. Child, please. I don’t think Mo Claiborne is a bad pick, but T-Rich is something special. Gotta take him in my opinion.
April 17th, 2012 at 11:34 am
Does anyone honestly believe Richardson will even be there when the Bucs pick?The Browns have no featured back after letting Hillis walk and will pounce all over TRich.
April 17th, 2012 at 11:38 am
Just a thought,what if both are gone at #5 pick who do we draft then?
April 17th, 2012 at 11:49 am
I love Claiborne, but if we take Richardson I’m not going to cry. The only problem i see with this is that this guy drafted for the Browns….not exactly the model that we should follow.
April 17th, 2012 at 11:50 am
The way I see it the only way both are gone at #5 is if the Vikings pass on Kalil. If they do that, I say we trade down and grab extra picks and see if we can still draft a blue chip player at somewhere between #10 – #16.
April 17th, 2012 at 11:55 am
I think Cleveland will take Richardson
April 17th, 2012 at 11:58 am
@Apple, I agree with you.
However, if Richardson is available at #5 – he’s a Buc…even if Claiborne is available too. That’s what I think happens.
April 17th, 2012 at 11:59 am
i would rather see the bucs pick up more picks cuz they need another 2nd rounder and a 3rd rounder and they dont have a 4th rounder but to me i would rather draft TR then morris claibourn for the simple fact that trent richardson wont be late to meetings and he can pass block and he can follow his blocks cuz its ben documented that blount cant read the play and follow his blocks and he cant even make it to the meetings on time!
April 17th, 2012 at 12:06 pm
I think Vikes take Claibourne and Browns take Richardson The Bucs will need to trade down but what if the trade is not there? Then who?
April 17th, 2012 at 12:06 pm
@BigBear
I agree completely. If we get either guy or even Kalil, everyone should be dancing in the streets. All 3 guys are elite prospects with the very real possibility of them turning into elite pros.
Very exciting time to be a Bucs fan!
April 17th, 2012 at 12:08 pm
Matt Kalil easy.
Don’t trade down. Don’t take Blackmon. Take Matt Kalil. He’s rated higher than both Claiborne and T-Rich and we’ll get a guy at a premium position making reasonable money (5 million per year for 4 years).
Take the BPA all day.
April 17th, 2012 at 12:12 pm
When I was younger I was heavy into collecting sports cards. This was around the time of Reggie Cobb / Errict Rhett, whom along with Thurman Thomas and Bo Jackson were my very favorite players. I liked RB’s. What does this have to do with anything? Well…
I still have some of these cards in storage, and I can recall clear as day an Action Packed card that had a major scout who was scouting running backs going back to OJ Simpson and possibly even to Gale Sayers. The card mentioned OJ Simpson, Walter Payton, Barry Sanders, all the greats as having been scouted by this super scout. All of these greats paled in comparison to the player on this trading card.
The name of the player: Ki-Jana Carter.
Now, I don’t disagree with the scout advising Tampa to look at Claiborne over Richardson and I’m not against drafting Richardson. I’ll be happy with one of the two, as I think both guys will be excellent pro players. But let’s relax with the “Best running back I ever graded” hype.
April 17th, 2012 at 12:16 pm
Joe,
Having at least one great CB is critical, especially in the NFC South.
Is Morris Claiborne the great CB that you are talking about?
If so, how can he be a great NFL CB having never played a down in the NFL?
With this logic, Trent Richardson is the greatest RB of all time in the NFL because I believe the Bucs should draft him.
April 17th, 2012 at 12:20 pm
rhymenoceros Says:
April 17th, 2012 at 11:24 am
Yeah, and we should take the advice from someone who used to draft for the Browns. Child, please. I don’t think Mo Claiborne is a bad pick, but T-Rich is something special. Gotta take him in my opinion.
_________________________________________
Almost like us taking our opinion from you, someone who probably has never worked in an NFL stadium, let alone in the front office.
Child please.
April 17th, 2012 at 12:22 pm
I just fell off my chair at the Ki-Jana Carter reference. I don’t think TRich is that guy because he will actually put in the work and effort but I laughed pretty hard no doubt.
The good news Bucs fans is that all the elite talent in this draft grades out in the top 5 picks. After that it becomes more of a crap shoot.
There are some guys who will be great pros in the next group. Kuechly, Gilmore, Kirkpatrick, DeCastro are good looking players but those top 5 picks are the real deal.
I have heard and continue to hear that Khalil needs to bulk up quite a bit. He’d be great in Tampa; we’d just send him out to dinner with Penn.
April 17th, 2012 at 12:26 pm
Another intelligent opinion, soon to be stomped over by the Zombie herd.
” arwhh! Draft Richardson, so he can sit and watch our defense give up 48 points a game , ohhhw”
LMAO!
If claiborne is gone, and Richardson is there- we draft Blackmon, a posistion of need.
We don’t need no 5’8″, stumpy, slow RB.
Let that Ompa loompa go play at somebody else’s chocolate factory! I thought we agreed to quit drafting slow midgets after that Peanut kid kept getting smeared.
And he was faster than Moooo Richardson!
Poor lil stump wont ever get out of the back field!!
We’ll just hear his said lil loompa song, from the bottom of the pile
” what do you do, when you’re too friggin slow, and you are short, that you have to tip toe
Just to reach up and grab a handoff
What do you will become of that?
He’s gonna end up really flat!”
Ompa loompa, domipity do!!
Lmao
April 17th, 2012 at 12:26 pm
Really? So pass over the highest graded RB in 18 years for a CB?
Doesn’t make sense to me. Lande graded him pretty high which means he probably thinks he’ll be a superstar in the pros. Soooooooo why would you pass on a superstar only to take a chance on a “maybe” RB in later rounds? Especially with only 2 RBs currently on the roster.
BTW, can anyone name all of the superstar CBs we drafted during the heyday when Tampa’s defense was so dominant?
April 17th, 2012 at 12:30 pm
Potential, potential, potential…that’s all we are drafting, a guess that a player is going to be great or not be injured 50% of the time, the real deal is getting talent late. The Bucs can’t go wrong with Richardson, Claiborne, Kalil or trading down and getting multiple picks as long as they stay in top 17 picks for chances or guys like, Hightower, Keukly or Barron. Though watching YouTube video on Luke Keuckly, didn’t see many impact tackles, but he is around the ball.
April 17th, 2012 at 12:30 pm
Reality is that the NFL has changed a bunch since our defense was good so superstar CB’s were previously less of an issue.
Do we need to discuss how many unreal passing seasons happened last year? The largest of which was in our division.
April 17th, 2012 at 12:32 pm
“arwhh! Draft Richardson, so he can sit and watch our defense give up 48 points a game , ohhhw”
—————–
Ever thought that maybe the reason the defense gave up so many points was because our inept offense always went 3 and out? You know, that offense where NO defense respected our running game and put all the pressure on Freeman to make throws into tight windows?
I prefer to draft game changers high in the first round. Splash players. Not a cornerback who’s not even the best cover corner in the draft.
April 17th, 2012 at 12:35 pm
Do we need to discuss how many unreal passing seasons happened last year? The largest of which was in our division.
————–
Exactly. But does Atlanta have a highly drafted shutdown corner? Carolina? New Orleans?
Can’t really name one, can you?
You’re exactly right. Offense is king right now. So draft a “can’t miss” RB instead of taking a leap of faith on some guy in the 3rd or 4th. Allen Bradford agrees.
April 17th, 2012 at 12:36 pm
BPA and leave happy.
April 17th, 2012 at 12:37 pm
I love these Claiborne lovers who contradict themselves with “its all about offense now”…. but they want a CB at #5?
Really?
Defenses don’t stop the Saints very often. Why not build a high power offense like theirs instead of hoping to be the one team a year that shuts them down?
April 17th, 2012 at 12:39 pm
I love TR and that would be my personal pick, but if Claiborne’s name is called for the Bucs I will cheer and be just as excited. I love being at the #5 pick this because it looks like we just can’t lose – we’ll get a premier player no matter what.
April 17th, 2012 at 12:40 pm
Celly Bwoy, you don’t even know me. I never said who I was, or what I do for a living. I never said you had to listen to me or that my opinion was right. I just offered my opinion which is just as plausible as the opinion of a guy that used to work for the Browns.
April 17th, 2012 at 12:43 pm
@Snook
Atlanta has a shutdown corner named Brent Grimes. They franchised him and he’s going to make 10 mil next year. Who said anything about Allen Bradford? There’s lots of bust RB’s out there…
April 17th, 2012 at 12:47 pm
This team needs playmakers. TR is a playmaker.
Its time for a high powered offense in Tampa.
April 17th, 2012 at 12:48 pm
I’ll take either or both…. lets trade our 2nd and 3rd and next years 1st and 2nd with Cleveland and take them both!
April 17th, 2012 at 12:50 pm
@princespanky:
I said ‘highly drafted’. Grimes was undrafted out of college. I guess CBs don’t have to be 1st rounders, huh?
Interesting you couldn’t name any other big time corners on either of those 3 teams that all had better defenses than the Bucs last year.
Interesting…
And 2 of the 3 have RBs drafted in the 1st round.
April 17th, 2012 at 12:56 pm
New Orleans gave up a 1st and a 2nd to draft Ingram later in the 2nd.
They seem to value the RB enough to give up that much for a guy who shares carries.
But I guess that franchise knows nothing about offense…
April 17th, 2012 at 12:56 pm
*later in the 1st
April 17th, 2012 at 12:56 pm
@Snook…..you could say the same thing about the RB position for those teams. Ingram…..no impact last year. Atlanta’s RB…Turner..a Blount clone. Carolina……Jonathan Stewart & DeAngelo Williams. No top 5 picks there…..although both are 1st round picks. That should show something right there. Carolina with two first round RB’s and they have been to the playoffs how many times in the last 10 years?? It’s about more than 1 or 2 guys. It’s about creating a ‘team’ and I think Claiborne makes more sense from a ‘team’ standpoint.
April 17th, 2012 at 1:02 pm
@ Bobby:
I stopped reading your post after you called Turner a “Blount clone”.
That’s a joke.
Fact is, the Bucs finished in LAST place last year in STRONG offensive division. All 3 teams either used a 1st round pick on or went out and signed a free agent RB to good money (Turner).
This whole article is about a guy who rated TR higher than ANY RB since 1994. That’s not good enough for a pick at #5? You’ve got to be joking.
Don’t really care about “playoffs” for Carolina. Their RBs are deadly. No one is going to be scared of Blount, Madu and some 4th round pick out of wherever.
April 17th, 2012 at 1:03 pm
It won’t be Blackmon and I highly doubt Kalil either.
It will be Richardson, Claiborne or trade back – in that order.
If we draft TR, then the worst person on our offense is Trueblood – whom actually isn’t all that bad, let’s say average. I’ll take that all day.
VJax, Williams, Blount, TRich (?), Benn, Briscoe, Parker, Winslow, Penn, Nicks, Joeseph, Zuttah, Freeman – just imagine the possibilities. Talk about giving a DC headaches in game planning.
I just think TRich is the cherry on top.
(Odds are very good we’ll get a quality player at #5 whomever it is.)
April 17th, 2012 at 1:05 pm
@snook
I missed the highly drafted part. He is just highly paid.
That is a good example but hardly a pure science. Up until recently (as was noted in a previous post on here) corners were rarely even drafted in the early rounds for quite a while. The glorious running backs were taken in the first and second round hand over fist… not quite as much as those QB’s but you catch my meaning.
So your results concerning past indications are quite skewed in terms of ratio. More RB’s drafted higher means more are going to stick around you see.
Game is changing. RB’s have a short shelf life and they churn them out like butter. Corners tend to be more durable (see Ronde Barber) and good ones are hard to find. Or you just might find em anywhere, like Brent Grimes and then pay them 10 mil a year.
I like both players but the draft is a draft… a place to fill the stable up and see what happens. Odds are good TRich wont be there and then its a non issue. If he runs for 1500 yards and 10 TD’s you have my full permission to tell me I’m an idiot but if Mo grabs like 6 picks and defenses like 20 passes please do the same.
April 17th, 2012 at 1:07 pm
Great post, bucfanjeff.
I totally agree.
And if TR is gone, I’m totally good with the MC pick. I just don’t think you can pass on a RB that is so highly graded. He immediately elevates the Bucs offense; from a running standpoint, from a blocking standpoint and from a receiving standpoint. Its a HUGE instant upgrade.
April 17th, 2012 at 1:11 pm
Caiborn does not make more sense from a “team” stand point considering Richardson would complete the offense… Claiborn would just be 1 piece to a defense that would need a few more peices to be relevant… which you could find later in the draft… so I would say you are wrong.
April 17th, 2012 at 1:11 pm
@princespanky
I disagree on the short shelf life of RBs. In general, they do. But look at the higher drafted RBs in the last decade. A lot of them put together longer than average (for RBs) careers.
Honestly, I think TR will be gone anyways. Just saying if MC and TR are both there, you can’t pass on the “can’t miss” RB.
April 17th, 2012 at 1:14 pm
@princespanky
And you failed to acknowledge that no one in the NFC South has elite CBs. Besides Grimes which I think is not quite elite.
New Orleans and Atlanta have faired pretty well lately without elite CBs. They seem to win 10+ games every year. Why can’t the Bucs? Oh yeah… because our offense sucks.
April 17th, 2012 at 1:16 pm
Blount is one of the worst backs ever graded – all components considered. Want proof?
What round was Blount drafted in? Did Blount make the first team who signed him?
Yet somehow, the sheep think he is a franchise RB. Laughable.
April 17th, 2012 at 1:20 pm
LOL Now that Raheem is gone, Thomas 2.2 can’t just pigeonhole himself into a one-trick, anti-Dominik pony.
He has to have another foil.
Joe thinks he found one. 🙂
April 17th, 2012 at 1:22 pm
So Lande obviously believes TR is the best player available, yet wouldn’t pick him if he were GM of the Bucs??? He must have been a perfect fit within the Browns organization. You’ve got the best RB in 20 years (his words, not mine), yet you pass on him?
I just don’t understand the reasoning that we can get a good RB in later rounds, but somehow people believe the same can’t happen with CB. This is why you take the best player available, because there are Pro Bowl Players at every position not drafted in the first round. Take the best guy and don’t look back.
April 17th, 2012 at 1:24 pm
Most likely TR is gone by pick #5, but if he’s not, all the anti-TR guys are about to cry like little school girls on the 26th.
April 17th, 2012 at 1:31 pm
“Most likely TR is gone by pick #5, but if he’s not, all the anti-TR guys are about to cry like little school girls on the 26th.”
Yuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuup!
April 17th, 2012 at 1:32 pm
They’ll also cry if the Bucs pass on him and 5 years later, he’s a superstar in the NFL while we got some guy chasing after Julio Jones on his way to the endzone.
April 17th, 2012 at 1:33 pm
With our luck, TRich will be gone to the Browns at #4….the disappointing is building, sneaky suspicion. 🙁
Claiborne, or not, it’s just not “landing” something….stealing something for our future, unless it’s TRich, IMO.
April 17th, 2012 at 1:39 pm
The best comparison to TR is Calvin Johnson, in my opinion.
The rhetoric back then was “you can draft quality WRs in later rounds.” A lot of people around the league laughed when the Lions drafted yet another WR high in the draft. But they put history aside and took the best player available. And they haven’t looked back. Good thing they didn’t reach for Gaines Adams for “need” right?
You shouldn’t pass on sure fire offensive superstars. And TR is just that.
April 17th, 2012 at 1:42 pm
@Thomas2.2,
Blount wasn’t drafted b/c he punched that guy, period. It wasn’t b/c teams didn’t think he was good. Anyone with a brain knows why he wasn’t drafted.
Link? I’d like to read it b/c I’ve never seen anything documenting this. If no link then you’re trying to state a rumor as if it’s a fact.
April 17th, 2012 at 1:46 pm
“So Lande obviously believes TR is the best player available, yet wouldn’t pick him if he were GM of the Bucs??? He must have been a perfect fit within the Browns organization. You’ve got the best RB in 20 years (his words, not mine), yet you pass on him?”
—————–
Seriously… Wish he still worked for them.
April 17th, 2012 at 1:46 pm
We need defensive help.. We couldnt stop anybody last year.. We dont even need to draft a RB we have blount hes really good! Did you all watch the packers game with blount he destroyed them.. Then aaron rodgers is talking to blount saying man your good come on our team will win some championships.. we need defensive help.. and blount needs a real offseason to get blocking down.. but damn he barely got the ball and he had 1000 yard season…
April 17th, 2012 at 1:50 pm
Joe going far and wide to find irrelevant writers/ former talent evaluators who support his opinion that we not take Richardson. Lol
April 17th, 2012 at 1:50 pm
“We need defensive help.. We couldnt stop anybody last year.. ”
—————–
The best defense is a good offense. Ask the Saints. Or the Packers. Or the Patriots.
They all had pretty good seasons last year and “couldn’t stop anybody” either.
April 17th, 2012 at 2:00 pm
@snook
I won’t even argue your ambiguous claim that highly drafted RB’s last longer. They all get injured and none of them have more then 5 years on the tires.
Brent Grimes may not be elite but the dude makes 10 mil on a franchise tag. He better be pretty decent. I concur outside of him there are not many game changing corners in the NFC south.
Yes you are right Atlanta and NO get 10 wins a year and are offensive juggernauts. How is that working out for them in terms of playoffs and Superbowls?
Our offense was bad last year but the defense was worse. We can try and outscore these teams or we can realize that both sides of the ball will get us to the end results the fans are looking for. NFC South teams aren’t exactly dominant in the playoffs lately so using them as build samples might be rough.
April 17th, 2012 at 2:07 pm
“We don’t need no 5’8″, stumpy, slow RB.” There’s a reason no one cares about what you say, Capt. Tim. You’re a fool. You keep making these erroneous claims to try and convince yourself and others that Claiborne is the better prospect when he isn’t.
Again, for people that want to act like RBs are easy to find after the 1st and CBs aren’t. Comparing starting CBs to starting and back-up RBs.
25 of the starting and back-up RBs were drafted in the 1st, 24 of the starting CBs were drafted in the 1st. 18 of the starting and back-up RBs were drafted in rounds 2-4, 24 of the starting CBs were drafted in rounds 2-4.
To review:
Richardson is the clear cut better prospect. Everyone from Kiper, Mcshay and Mayock to the draftniks/evaluators that you can follow on various websites and twitter say this. It’s unanimous. Not to mention the difference between Claiborne and the next handful of CBs isn’t as great as the difference between Richardson and the next handful of RBs.
The numbers say it is easier to find a starting CB in the 2-4 rounds than it is a starting or back-up RB.
The top 2 rushing teams in the NFL last year were in the playoffs. 2 other run first teams were a field goal away from the Superbowl. Running teams can win.
It is arguable that CB is a bigger need than RB(on this subject, neither position is of greater need than LBer and Safety). We currently have 4 CBs on our roster that have started games and played well. Yeah Biggers sucked last year but he played well in 2010. Was it a mirage? Talib could go to prison but that’s still 3 CBs and guys with potential like Gaitor and Lewis. At RB we have 2 UDFAs, one of which is completely unproven(though he has potential) in Madu, and Blount who has not proven he can stay healthy for 16 games, hasn’t proven he can hold onto the ball, and hasn’t proven he can pass protect or catch the ball with consistency at least sometimes so our offense isn’t so predictable.
I think that covers every argument against Richardson. Now, if Richardson is gone and we take Claiborne I won’t mind the pick at all(I don’t hate Claiborne like these pro-Claiborne people hate Richardson). But passing over Richardson for Claiborne would be a giant mistake.
April 17th, 2012 at 2:13 pm
Where is bones’ comment?
April 17th, 2012 at 2:13 pm
@GenocideD who Says: @Thomas2.2: “Blount wasn’t drafted b/c he punched that guy, period.’
Lots of players who “punched” guys – even worse get drafted. Lawrence Phillips comes to mind, Pacman Jones was on probation for an assault and went 8th overall. Lets see where Janoris Jenkins gets drafted.
If you are a top prospect team’s take a chance on you. When you are an average at best prospect with red flags, you don’t get drafted.
April 17th, 2012 at 2:27 pm
All im saying is blount is pretty good.. Give him a whole offseason see what he can do.. Richardson was a backup to ingram and ingram ant that good.. We have a good enuff running back.. damn all our best highlight plays are from blount destroying players.. Madden even added the truck stop to there video game because of blount.. Now can our linebackers stop anybody? NO Can our DTS staying healthy NO! we need to get to the Quarterback thats how the giants won a championship.. I dont see the vikings doing anything great with the best running back in the game..
April 17th, 2012 at 2:36 pm
rhymenoceros Says:
April 17th, 2012 at 12:40 pm
Celly Bwoy, you don’t even know me. I never said who I was, or what I do for a living. I never said you had to listen to me or that my opinion was right. I just offered my opinion which is just as plausible as the opinion of a guy that used to work for the Browns.
____________________________________________
You’re correct, and that is exactly the point I was trying to make in my post. The opinion of a FORMER Browns executive mean just about as much as the opinion of someone sitting behind their computer screen typing something out (me included).
At the end of the day, on April 20th, there are only 2 (maybe 3) peoples/groups whos opinion matter: Dominick, Schiano and the Glazers. Outside of that, everything else is just speculation.
Cheers.
April 17th, 2012 at 2:37 pm
@Thomas,
Not too many of those same guys get suspended for (practically) the whole season. Not to mention trying to attack fans, and doing it all on national TV. Before all that happened, he was expected to be picked in the first 2 rounds. I’m not arguing with you that he’s not a complete back, but you are wrong in the way you are knocking him.
April 17th, 2012 at 2:39 pm
Trent Richardson: best RB ever scouted! Better than Ricky Williams, M. Faulk, Jackson of the Rams, LaDainian Tomlinson, Adrian Peterson!! and this guy suggests we don’t draft him? LOL I have been stating all along TR’s credentials all along as being this good…this is how you become mediocre when you pass on BPA for a need…there is no logic here to pass on potenially the best player in the NFL a player that can cause nightmares for opposing teams defense, sort of like Lawrence Taylor did for the defense back in the 80’s. What other player can do this for the Buc’s?. If the Buc’s are lucky enough to have a chance to draft him, Shiano will…
April 17th, 2012 at 2:43 pm
@TommyBoy – “Joe went far and wide?” Sounds to me like Joe just turned on the radio.
April 17th, 2012 at 2:48 pm
I agree Blount is very good and could be great but he’s not great yet… and even if he were what would happen if he went down for the season with an injury? We would have nothing…. We need atleast 2 studs to spell each other and to take over if one happened to go down. Just because he is good isnt a reason not to draft another. We have atleast 3 CBs so RB is more of a need… and if its NEED you want to draft then you should be hollering for a LB not a CB… these pro claiborn fans seem to want to twist there own words around to only to fit there own agenda.
April 17th, 2012 at 2:55 pm
Snook Says:
April 17th, 2012 at 12:37 pm
I love these Claiborne lovers who contradict themselves with “its all about offense now”…. but they want a CB at #5?
Really?
Defenses don’t stop the Saints very often. Why not build a high power offense like theirs instead of hoping to be the one team a year that shuts them down?
______________________________
Not necessarily a contradiction.
From my conclusion, it appears that people that are in the Richardson camp seem quick to give up on LGB, thinking that his first offseason of work with the team will be a waste of time and that he is already a lost cause.
By stating that the NFL has become a passing league, why does it NOT make sense to pick up an impact DB that can shut down one half of the field? How is that NOT beneficial, ESPECIALLY in our own division where we have to face the likes of QBs Brees, Ryan and Newton twice a year; not to mention Julio Jones, Roddy White, Steve Smith, Tony G, Greg Olson, Jimmy Graham plus whatever other WR Brees feels like making into a superstar that week.
Why NOT get someone that can lock onto one of those guys and keep him contained for the majority of the game?
April 17th, 2012 at 2:57 pm
Snook Says:
April 17th, 2012 at 12:32 pm
“arwhh! Draft Richardson, so he can sit and watch our defense give up 48 points a game , ohhhw”
—————–
Ever thought that maybe the reason the defense gave up so many points was because our inept offense always went 3 and out? You know, that offense where NO defense respected our running game and put all the pressure on Freeman to make throws into tight windows?
I prefer to draft game changers high in the first round. Splash players. Not a cornerback who’s not even the best cover corner in the draft.
_________________________________
Hard to respect the running game when your offensive coordinator stops giving you touches. Lets not forget, our 1,000+ yard runner only had 5 carries in week 1.
We may not know what type of OC Sullivan will be, but I can almost guarantee that LGB won’t see that few carries again.
April 17th, 2012 at 2:58 pm
Snook Says:
April 17th, 2012 at 1:50 pm
“We need defensive help.. We couldnt stop anybody last year.. ”
—————–
The best defense is a good offense. Ask the Saints. Or the Packers. Or the Patriots.
They all had pretty good seasons last year and “couldn’t stop anybody” either.
___________________________
But the team that won the Superbowl (i.e. the most important game of the season) is the team that had the better defense. To deny that would be ignorant.
April 17th, 2012 at 3:13 pm
So far I havent seen a team win a superbowl because of there running back in a long time now.. But the Giants do have a good defense and yes the packers do have arron rodgers to beat teams by points.. but none of them have elite running backs..I still think elite defense make teams more scared then elite offense…
April 17th, 2012 at 3:15 pm
@BonesMahoney….
By your own admission:
“The top 2 rushing teams in the NFL last year were in the playoffs. 2 other run first teams were a field goal away from the Superbowl. Running teams can win.”
I’m assuming the 4 teams you speak of are the Texans/Steelers and the Ravens/49ers.
Now, using the information that YOU provided (as well as some very simple research) you will find that of those 4 teams YOU provided, the only player on either one of those teams that was drafted in the 1st round was Mendenhall (and he was taken towards the end of the round).
Arian Foster [Texans] – Undrafted
Ray Rice [Ravens] – 2nd round
Frank Gore [49ers] – 3rd round
April 17th, 2012 at 3:24 pm
Celly Bwoy, sorry that I misunderstood. I thought you were belittling my opinion (of the hundreds of opinions on here) because you disagreed. Now, I don’t think we can afford to pass an offensive weapon such as Richardson to draft a corner just because it fills a bigger need. LB and S are absolutely the two biggest needs, and then RB and CB. I don’t think you can even say CB is a greater need than RB. Richardson is a stud, and we may be in position to have him for the foreseeable future (while he’s young). It will open up the offense and give them a chance to be elite. I’m not giving up on LGB, I think he could be a great role player, but he doesn’t boast talent anywhere near what Richardson would bring. I would certainly love to add Claiborne to the team, only if Richardson is gone though. His contribution to the defense pales in comparison to what Richardson would do for the offense. Thinking that he is going to step in and immediately shut down a side of the field (let alone against Drew Brees etc.) is absurd.
April 17th, 2012 at 3:24 pm
I really don’t like the argument that the championship teams don’t have elite Rb’s. It’s just not telling the whole story. Championship teams have elite QB’s 9 times out of 10. That’s the common denominator, not RB’s or CB’s. No matter how the numbers are spun, that is the real truth. Once you have a QB, you build your team around him, whether that be offense or defense. You take the best player available. This is what all the successful teams do. If you have TR rated higher than Claiborne (which pretty much everyone does), then that’s who you take. To do otherwise is a recipe for disaster.
The next argument is that you need an elite CB to stop these elite QB’s. That’s fine, but why can’t an elite CB be found in a later round? The league is full of very good CB’s that aren’t first rounders (and of course the same applies for RB’s too). If you scout well, you can get good players late, no matter what the position. Take the best guy. If you want to draft for need, do it in the second round (or later). Don’t waste an elite pick because you are reaching to find one position.
April 17th, 2012 at 3:28 pm
@ #5 pick- “Best RB ever graded”, that is our pick. I want the BEST player at the #5 pick.
April 17th, 2012 at 3:29 pm
@ Celly,
Our UDFA RB’s:
Lumpkin, Huggins, and Derrick Ward for $20 million +.
Spend the our highest draft pick on the best player, plain and simple.
April 17th, 2012 at 3:33 pm
@ BigBear:
You say: BigBear Says:
April 17th, 2012 at 11:49 am
“I love Claiborne, but if we take Richardson I’m not going to cry. The only problem i see with this is that this guy drafted for the Browns….not exactly the model that we should follow.”
The reason Cleveland would pick TR is bc he is the BPA at #4, why woudln’t we draft him?
April 17th, 2012 at 3:34 pm
Captain Tim is concerned about TR’s height now? He apparently wants a 6’6″ RB, lol. Just FYI Captain, generally speaking you want your RB’s to be shorter. There have been successful taller backs, but in general they are short (lower center of gravity). As for you calling him slow, that’s either stupidity or ignorance, or perhaps both. Can’t help you with that. Find me one expert that calls him slow (and you are not an expert). You say there are clips on NFL Network – then find me a link. Just show me anything other than you attempting to appear knowledgeable and/or funny (neither of which you are successful). My money says you won’t do it,yet you will try your best to appear like JBF’s great source of knowledge (and all those who disagree with you are clueless).
April 17th, 2012 at 3:39 pm
@ Hawaiian,
Amen Brother!
Everyone in Camp Claibourne: Please take off your blinders, LQQK around, and do what is best for the Bucs, the best available player.
Fix your Defensive needs in FA. Draft is meant for acquiring the best possible talent with every pick.
April 17th, 2012 at 3:41 pm
@CellBwoy,
C’mon man! You are set on finding an UDFA RB?
Why?
We have one already, Blount.
Time to upgrade and get a “1-A” RB, right Joe?
April 17th, 2012 at 3:43 pm
CAPT. TIM,
Congratulations!!!! You have the worst opinion on this blog lol!
April 17th, 2012 at 3:44 pm
Nobody has answered me as to why we can’t get a great CB in round 2. The numbers don’t lie, you are actually more likely to get a starting CB in round 2 or later than a starting RB.
April 17th, 2012 at 3:48 pm
Some of you people are just painfully ignorant.
Whoever it was that mentioned that the team with the “better defense” won the Super Bowl is in the same range as Claiborne on the Wonderlic.
You mean the NY Giants and their 27th ranked defense? The one that ranked 25th in points allowed?
Geez… some of you people try to prove your points and end up proving the other person’s point instead.
Two of the worst defenses in the league faced off in the Super Bowl. Thanks for proving my point.
Or the guy who asked “How is that working out for them in terms of playoffs and Superbowls?” in regards to the Saints and Falcons… Really?
I’d rather make the playoffs every year and win a Super Bowl (Saints in 2009) than finish 4-12 and have a 1st round “Shutdown CB”.
What a joke.
April 17th, 2012 at 3:54 pm
The Brown’s GM Loves Blackmon, the browns Pres is heavily considering Tannehill. The point there is even the Potential of a Franchise QB is so provocative given that they are difficult to find later in the draft. If they drafted TR they probably would win a extra few games based on his presence alone but the problem is that might give them a 8 or 9 win type of seasons, not good enough to make the playoffs and still with a average injury prone QB. Now for the the real problem, they would not be picking high enough to have the opportunity to draft a Tannehill next time. Holgram is a smart man, he knows what the QB competition is within his division and the awareness of how essential it is to have a Franchise QB to get you into the big game. Also, remember that there will be potential pro bowl back or two when they pick at 22…Anyway, this is what I believe the Browns mindset will be on the 26th. All this will mean is TR will be there for the Buc’s if they are lucky enough and Shiano will jump on him no doubt. I’m sorry Claiborne supporters, however if you truly are buc fans you wont be disappointed for very long…
April 17th, 2012 at 3:55 pm
But the team that won the Superbowl (i.e. the most important game of the season) is the team that had the better defense. To deny that would be ignorant.
———————–
Team – YPG/Pass YPG/Rush YPG/Points allowed
NY Giants – 27/29/19/25
New England – 31/31/17/15
So the two teams that met in the Super Bowl ranked 29th and 31st in Pass Yards allowed per game??
Good argument to draft a CB at #5!
Geez…..
April 17th, 2012 at 3:57 pm
@celly The Broncos not the Steelers, who had/have 2 1st round RBs. But I said starting and back-up RBs. Which would mean 3 out 8 were 1st rounders. Of their starting CBs, 4 out of 8. But since you brought up the Steelers, a perennial winner. 1st round starting RB, staring CBs drafted in 4th and 5th round. Also, there were 7 RBs drafted in the 1st round in the playoffs. Regardless, that was just one of my points. Do you really want us to pass on Richardson solely based on that?
April 17th, 2012 at 3:59 pm
@stevek- Tim has owned that spot for at least a year, so dumb tim, you have yet to notice that you are the biggest joke ever. Go away literally noone takes anything you say seriously, you troll
April 17th, 2012 at 4:00 pm
The bottom 4 defenses against the pass last year:
29. NY Giants
30. New Orleans
31. Green Bay
32. New England
Combined Record: 50-14 in 2011.
You can use the “find RBs in later rounds” argument all you want but let’s put the “you need elite CBs” argument to bed. Its a joke.
Three Letters – BPA
April 17th, 2012 at 4:03 pm
@Snook,
Damn, those are some facts I didn’t even realize. Great stuff! I can’t wait to see the first person try to argue with you.
April 17th, 2012 at 4:04 pm
Jarrett,
I am a diehard Buc fan, and I just want what is “Best” for the Bucs at their # 5 pick.
You get it man, the “Best”.
Someone calling TR “slow and stumpy”, but they won’t pessimistically evaluate their draft choice?
BS on that.
April 17th, 2012 at 4:09 pm
@Hawaiian Buc:
No one can argue with that. If offense is king, why would we not want an elite offense like the rest of the league? I agree with MC fans that you can find RBs in later rounds. I’m not arguing that. But to pass on a talent like TR is just stupid. Especially to go after a cornerback in a league that proved just last year that you don’t need anything more than a below average secondary to be a good team in the NFL.
April 17th, 2012 at 4:13 pm
Well said Snook!
April 17th, 2012 at 4:17 pm
This is the biggest debate all offseason and to me personally just amazes me!!! I know TR3 is good and all that. But this is a passing league and you have to have great DBs to stop the pass. To get a CB like Mo’ would be unbelievable!! And he may think TR3 is the best RB he has ever graded. But IMO Mo’ is the best CB coming out of college since Champ Bailey. Actually I would rate his cover skills better than Champs were at this point coming out. Champ did offense as well so that took away some of his focus on D.
But like I’ve said from day 1. We have to get either Claiborne or Kalil. PERIOD!!!!!!!! The TR3 s(p)it needs to stop for real. There is 0 chance he will be a Buc! Dom would never draft RB in the 1st. That goes against everything he has said since joining our team. Wait til the 3rd and get LaMichael James, Isiah Pead, or Polk from Washington!!!!
April 17th, 2012 at 4:24 pm
Perhaps Funkyxmunkey should read the facts. Claiborne is not graded as high as Champ Bailey. Many feel (including Charlie Casserly) that he’s not as good as Patrick Peterson (the numbers back that up). Regardless, where did Dom ever say he wouldn’t draft a RB in the first round? I have to see a link on that one, or I’m calling BS of epic proportions. From all that I have read, we are drafting TR if he’s available at #5. Of course that can change, but where there is smoke there is normally fire.
April 17th, 2012 at 4:26 pm
“But this is a passing league and you have to have great DBs to stop the pass.”
—————————-
Uh, no you don’t. The Giants, Packers, Saints and Patriots don’t stop the pass. The stats show that they couldn’t care less about stopping the pass.
April 17th, 2012 at 4:29 pm
@Hawaiian Buc & Snook….
Guess I’ll be the first one to play devil’s advocate….
True or False:
Of those 4 teams that you listed, which one had the best defense? Which one won the Superbowl?
We all watched that game. When it came down to 1 critical pass play, the team that had the worse defense wasn’t able to stop the pass play. (not taking anything away from the pass, but you would still expect/hope the defense could make a play in that situation)
I’m not one of these people that has an issue with us selecting Richardson. Will he be a stud? We can assume so, but in reality, NONE of us know. Same principle applies to Claiborne.
But I would hope that after all the money we spent on the offensive line that you could plug you, me or even @Joe in the backfield and pick up some yards. I still wo uld like to give LGB a full offseason with a quality RB coach to see what he can do this year.
But honestly, when its all said and done, I truly cannot see the Browns passing on Richardson. It wouldn’t make sense for them to pass on him considering they have NO ONE in the backfield……but then again, it IS the Browns. lol
April 17th, 2012 at 4:34 pm
@Hawaiian Buc and the rest of the Bucs fans on here (myself included)
While the premise of “where there’s smoke, there’s fire” applies under 99% of circumstances, lets not forget that during draft time, all that smoke you might be seeing could just be a screen for who they really want, lol.
April 17th, 2012 at 4:45 pm
@celly_bwoy
First of all, you said “True or False” and then asked two questions instead of making a statement that anyone could actually answer “True or False” to. The answer to both of your questions is the “Giants”. Answering “True” or “False” to either question wouldn’t make any sense.
That being said, I can see how you totally missed my point. I don’t care that the Giants defense was technically better than New England’s (29 vs 31). You’re grasping at straws. The FACT is that both didn’t have much of a passing defense. Both were at the bottom of the league. Let that sink in, ok?
And the best CB in the league could’ve done nothing to prevent the throw and catch from Manning to Manningham. To suggest that is simply ridiculous.
True or False: The Giants and Patriots can’t defend the pass.
April 17th, 2012 at 4:48 pm
“While the premise of “where there’s smoke, there’s fire” applies under 99% of circumstances, lets not forget that during draft time, all that smoke you might be seeing could just be a screen for who they really want, lol.”
——–
True enough. I agree with you that it probably doesn’t matter, because Cleveland is taking TR.
As for plugging anyone in, I think that’s partially true. I think many RB’s will be able to have success behind our OL. However, a back like TR will take runs to the house, as opposed to picking up big yardage. Plus, backs like TR will be able to get critical yards in short yardage situations, when he won’t have dump truck size holes. How many 3rd and 1’s did we fail on last year? Too many. Also, TR is the best blocking RB I can remember coming out of college. Add to these facts that he has unparalleled work ethic, and is of very high character. He’s as can’t miss as possible (although no one is a sure thing).
April 17th, 2012 at 4:48 pm
” quick, send in the Ompa loompa- we’re down by 40″
Lmao
The expert tells you that Richardson is a good back- but we shouldn’t pick him- we should draft Claiborne.
Yet still the zombies clamour their man love for the li midget.
Won’t be a dried eyed idiot on the site come draft day, when Moooo Richardson
Gets ignored ” Mark Ingram “style.
Sorry SteveK, Jarrett, And Hawiian. Like the rest of your sad lil lives, your gonna be disappointed, and totally wrong, again!
Like always!
And I’ll still be laughing at you!
April 17th, 2012 at 4:53 pm
@ Capt Tim:
Pretty ironic you call TR a midget considering Claiborne is a mental midget.
He’s actually dumber than his fans. Crazy.
April 17th, 2012 at 4:55 pm
You’re correct, my true/false statement went a little awry. I’m at work and have to try to type in between work orders. Mistake fully accepted.
But the point I make is still true: The better defense won on that day. It doesn’t matter if the 31st ranked defense beats the 32nd ranked defense. You only job is to be better THAT DAY. And the better defense won on THAT DAY, the most important day of the year.
And to answer your T/F statement: TRUE. Neither team can defend the pass.
But in the same token, neither of those teams have a first round RB on their roster either.
April 17th, 2012 at 5:01 pm
@Snook
————————————————————————————–
Or the guy who asked “How is that working out for them in terms of playoffs and Superbowls?” in regards to the Saints and Falcons… Really?
I’d rather make the playoffs every year and win a Super Bowl (Saints in 2009) than finish 4-12 and have a 1st round “Shutdown CB”.
————————————————————————————–
Glad you commented on this. A team that has QB’s like Drew Brees and Peyton Manning (one bowl a piece) should cry at the fact that they couldn’t get more. Can you imagine just a slightly better defense to play with Peyton? I follow the Colts only because my best football friend lives the Colts and he is on morphine drip thinking about the missed opportunities.
The argument to SCORE ALL THE POINTZ! needs to have some rationale besides defensive rank to go with it. The Giants have traditionally had great defenses that turn the ball over. They were tremendously lacking without Terrell Thomas and anybody who looks at things other then numbers can figure that out.
And look up the numbers on the Saints defense the year that they won… it wasn’t too shabby either…. but keep posting those rankings nobody will figure it out
April 17th, 2012 at 5:01 pm
And to answer your T/F statement: TRUE. Neither team can defend the pass.”
————————
Exactly. We’re done now.
And neither team has a CB drafted in the Top 5 either.
April 17th, 2012 at 5:09 pm
“The expert tells you that Richardson is a good back- but we shouldn’t pick him- we should draft Claiborne.”
——
No that would be one person saying that. And he worked in Cleveland, which explains his belief that you don’t draft the BPA. All the experts on NFL Network say we should draft TR. So get your facts straight.
And as predicted, you attempted to be funny, without giving any facts whatsoever. There’s a reason why no one on this site takes you serious. You are more agenda-driven than Thomas 2.2, which up until recently I didn’t think was humanly possible. Congratulations on contributing nothing worthwhile to the conversation, yet doing a fantastic job of making yourself into an even bigger arse.
April 17th, 2012 at 5:10 pm
What if Trent Richardson can have a “Brees/ Manning” impact on our offense?
If we can secure that kind of impact with 1 draft choice, then do it.
The rest of the draft can be entirely spent on D.
April 17th, 2012 at 5:10 pm
@Capt Tim….
We’re all adults here. No need to attack anyone online over some comments. Please grow up.
Now, on to your asinine statements on TR (and mind you, as everyone here i’m sure noticed, i’m in the Claiborne camp)…. Last I checked, there have been a few RBs that were “oompa loompas.”
With Richardson (5’9″) being the standard for your totally uneducated statement, off the top of my head:
Darren Sproles – 5’6″
Maurice Jones Drew – 5’7″
Ray Rice – 5’8″
Barry Sanders – 5’8″
and our very own Warrick Dunn – 5’9″
I’m sure no one on this board would think twice about have any one of those players on their teams.
On top of that, how many times have you watched a Saints game and see Sproles disappear in the backfield only to have him show up 20 yards down field? So, yeah, I have no problems w/ an oompa loompa lining up in the backfield. All that matters is if he can play…. now QB and WR on the other hand, I want some giants (no pun intended) lol.
So please take your childish dribble somewhere else. If you’re not going to form an intelligent opinion or if the intelligent opinion cannot be conveyed in a non child like manner, please keep your mouth shut while grown men are talking.
Thank you.
April 17th, 2012 at 5:11 pm
@princespanky:
You’re making this much too easy.
The 2009 Super Bowl Champion Saints ranked 26th in Pass Defense.
26th would be great if there was 100 teams and not just 32.
April 17th, 2012 at 5:13 pm
How about their turnover differential my good man…. what was that in 2009?
April 17th, 2012 at 5:15 pm
Snook Says:
April 17th, 2012 at 5:01 pm
And to answer your T/F statement: TRUE. Neither team can defend the pass.”
————————
Exactly. We’re done now.
And neither team has a CB drafted in the Top 5 either.
__________________________________________
So what you’re saying is that this argument ended in a tie? lol. My statement was that neither team had a RB drafted in the 1st round. Your new statement is that neither team had a CB drafted in the top 5. They may not have had a CB drafted in the top 5, but they definitely had one drafted in the 1st round….
April 17th, 2012 at 5:18 pm
“So please take your childish dribble somewhere else. If you’re not going to form an intelligent opinion or if the intelligent opinion cannot be conveyed in a non child like manner, please keep your mouth shut while grown men are talking.”
———-
I am standing up and applauding you Celly_bwoy. As I’ve said all along, I respect the opinion that Claiborne is the pick we should make. I just happen to disagree if TR is there. Doesn’t mean I’m right. There’s no way to tell until a few years down the road. I’ll happily go out and buy a Claiborne jersey if he’s the guy. But this fool is not even worth arguing with, because he is both completely ignorant and childish. Just because you put LMAO at the end of your statements doesn’t mean it is funny, or anyone else is laughing. I will say that we are all laughing, but we are just laughing at you.
April 17th, 2012 at 5:20 pm
“So what you’re saying is that this argument ended in a tie? lol. My statement was that neither team had a RB drafted in the 1st round. Your new statement is that neither team had a CB drafted in the top 5. They may not have had a CB drafted in the top 5, but they definitely had one drafted in the 1st round….”
———–
This all falls back on the truth that QB is what you need to win in this league. So between a RB and a CB, you take the BPA. To me, it’s pretty simple. If we rate Claiborne higher than Richardson, then take Claiborne.
April 17th, 2012 at 5:26 pm
@Snook….
(please take no disrespect by this)
The point you just brought up about the Saints and their 26th ranked pass defense might’ve just brought up the disconnect between some fans on here that maybe on either side of the Richardson/Claiborne camp.
You seem to be only looking into the aspect of pass defense. To me, pass defense only tells a part of the story. I am of the belief that turnover ratio is FAR MORE important than just pass defense.
2009 Saints +11
Its more than just “stopping” the pass. It also helps if you can get the ball back for your offense.
Cheers.
April 17th, 2012 at 5:31 pm
@celly
thanks for having my back… it’s that stat for those game breaking and momentum shifting turnovers that are often critical to success in a game.
April 17th, 2012 at 5:39 pm
Mo Claiborne will generate turnovers, sure, but what about LGB and his fumbling issues. Turnovers can go both ways, and we sure gave the ball away a lot last year.
April 17th, 2012 at 5:49 pm
We get a cheap back for him to share carries with and if he fumbles then he sits. Schiano has already said fumblers will ride the pine.
He needs to earn his keep a little competition will push him in that direction.
April 17th, 2012 at 5:51 pm
@thinker
My point being is who cares what Russ Lande thinks. Mayock is the only “draft guru” that deserves attention. Joe is banging his anti-Richardson drum way too hard. It’s like damn, we know Joe doesn’t want him to be the 5th pick. How many times to do we have to read it? My brother doesn’t want Richardson at 5 either. So Joe should do a post about that too right?
April 17th, 2012 at 5:52 pm
Trent Richardson had 1 fumble in college.
Sounds like a good “turnover ratio” investement to me.
April 17th, 2012 at 6:14 pm
I only have one more point to make; completely as an observation from the Buccaneer fan perspective. Not team Mo or team TRich… both will be fun to watch which is really what I am all about.
There is a guy named Bill Belicheat and we all know he is big on turnover ratio as well. He is obsessive about it.
They have a top end offense (no primary back in that offense it’s very much a committee of role players focused on not fumbling…ever) and Bill is known as a great draft manipulator and team depth builder. In the last 2 drafts he has taken a corner in either the first or second round while always looking to trade down and get more prospects.
It is an offense first league but the great minds still want to keep teams honest and create turnovers and will pay a price to do so. It’s strictly an observation but depth in the back 7 is always a good idea and there is no easy way to do it.
Schiano seems to model the Buccaneer way closely to the Belicheat way so he might be looking to trade down (and fill some holes of people he chases out of town for being terrible team mates or not working hard) but I think Mo is a Buc at the end of the day.
April 17th, 2012 at 6:40 pm
We can keep debating this over and over (and we probably will), but there are, in reality, more than one way to build a champion. Bellicheck may do it one way, Coughlin another, Bill Walsh another, etc. etc. There isn’t necessarily a right way or a wrong way. I don’t think anyone can argue the fact that in order to win, you must have a good QB, and as much talent around him as possible. Although philosophy may change, those facts won’t. Just because Bellicheck does it one way, doesn’t mean we should do it the same way. I just want us to get the best player, which I believe is Richardson. I want us to add the guy that can make us better, and soon. Last year was hard for all of us to stomach, and I don’t want to go through that again.
April 17th, 2012 at 6:52 pm
I don’t see how fans could complain if we drafted Richardson.
It’s not like having a great RB is a bad thing.
Except for those who honestly believe they would be good GM’s.
Look, we take the best player available at 5 and if it’s Richardson we win just as much if it’s Kahil or Claiborne. We are GOING to get a top three player barring QB’s. Come on, admit it……….this IS a good thing.
April 17th, 2012 at 7:37 pm
@hawaiinbuc
For real…Charley Casserly says he doesn’t believe he is better than Peterson and you really believe that. Peterson has return skills and average coverage skills. Claiborne is a true shutdown CB who the majority of scouts and such say is clearly better at coverage than Peterson. Watch their tapes…Claiborne dominates the field. Peterson dominated the return game. Totally different. I would draft a CB to cover the top WRs in the league. Not to return kicks!!!
April 17th, 2012 at 7:42 pm
@Snook
The 4 teams you mentioned also have the best QBs on their roster. Great DLines and LB cores. Are you serious bro???? Josh Freeman can’t even hold Eli, Drew, Tom, or Aarons’ jockstrap. You can’t compare them to us. Our DBs did nothing but miss tackles and allow monster plays all season. They also score 35 points a game and give up nearly as many. We need D help now. Not Offense.
April 17th, 2012 at 7:46 pm
And Dom has stated the last 2 previous drafts that there wasn’t a premium on RBs being drafted early. We can get them later on or after the draft. Thats why we didn’t draft a RB and stole Blount from Tennessee. Do you think they will change that now???
And “where there is smoke…there is usually a screen”. not fire. I don’t know what league you all have been watching. But no one but the #1 team in the draft ever tells who they are going to try and get before the draft starts. And many years its a secret who the #1 pick will even be period.
Bellichek took Tebow out to dinner and everyone said ohhh thats a lock…um no thats called a smoke screen.
April 17th, 2012 at 7:51 pm
And I don’t have to search for an article to provide a link. I guess unlike some people, I follow what our team does and what our Front Office says for more than just the last couple of months!! Since our “new regime” was started they have followed the same plan. The only difference this year is we have a coach who isn’t in way over his head. He actually has a real plan it seems, and “REMEMBER THIS COMMENT”!!!!!!!
WE WILL NOT DRAFT TRENT RICHARDSON!!! GUARANTEED…
Say what you want because it is all a moot point. Our holes are on Defense and RT. That being said…how does drafting a RB 5th in the draft help us. If we had a good D I would say a ton. But our D is straight garbage. We need multiple players in the secondary and at LB. Cannot afford to waste the 5th pick in the draft.
But like I said in other post. TR3 will be drafted by Cleveland or we should trade down with STL if they want him so bad!!!
April 17th, 2012 at 8:01 pm
And how @hawaiinbuc do the numbers add up. In 2011 alone Claiborne had 6 picks. In 2008,2009,2010 combined Peterson only has 7 total picks??? No comparison. Peterson also never shut down his WR and wasn’t ever called a shutdown CB before his draft. He was an average DB with amazing return skills. Claiborne is a better pure cover corner in man or zone. Something Peterson cannot do well. And his coverage ability coming out of college is right on par with Champ if not a little better. Did Champ get 1 more point value wise or something for you to say he graded out better. Instead of a 96 he was a 97???? What are you talking about??
April 17th, 2012 at 8:04 pm
“WE WILL NOT DRAFT TRENT RICHARDSON!!! GUARANTEED…”
——–
Unless you are secretly Mark Dominik, that comment is completely baseless. You have no damn clue what is going on in OBP, and neither do I. I think Cleveland will pick him too, but if not, I predict (key word being “predict”) we draft TR.
I watch everything I can possibly watch on this team, and I have never once seen anything on Dominik saying he wouldn’t draft a RB early. I find it nearly impossible to believe that ANY GM would say such a thing. If you can’t show me something more than just your word, then you aren’t really showing me anything.
April 17th, 2012 at 8:09 pm
And I didn’t say I believe it, but I would sure as hell take his work over yours (no offense). Let me know once you have half of his credentials and we can talk. Stat-wise, Peterson’s stats are much better than Claiborne. Peterson is generally considered to be faster, and he has added value as an excellent returner. He had literally twice the number of tackles as Claiborne. Believe it or not, playing CB does involve tackling as well (see the CB’s for the Tampa Bay Buccaneers 2011). So although I’m not saying Peterson is better (I’d be lying if I said I watched LSU play ever week), I am saying it’s not that far-fetched to believe he is. I also love how people state their opinions, then proceed to proclaim their opinions as fact, and anyone who disagrees knows nothing. You are a fan, just like me. You aren’t a GM, just like I’m not. Know your role.
April 17th, 2012 at 9:28 pm
Ompa loompa dompidie Di!
Lmao- let’s draft a Slow short Rb. In a league where it’s all about the passing game, and RBs are so undervalued, most teams won’t waste draft picks on the
Lmao
Just laughing. In a few days, you’ll all see what the NFL really values.
Lol
April 17th, 2012 at 9:33 pm
Just laughing. In a few days, you’ll all see what the NFL really values.
Lol
————–
So when TR goes 4 or 5, what does that mean? It means what we all already know – you are a f-ing moron.
April 17th, 2012 at 9:34 pm
Capt. Tim is the only person in the world that wants a tall RB. Now finally, in an attempt to be funny, I will place the following acronym used by Capt. Tim and school girls all over the country: LMAO.
April 17th, 2012 at 10:23 pm
@Funky Monkey…. You get the gold prize for the day. I KNEW I remember hearing Dominik talk about one of his building principles back in the day, but it didn’t come back to me until you posted this:
“And Dom has stated the last 2 previous drafts that there wasn’t a premium on RBs being drafted early. We can get them later on or after the draft. Thats why we didn’t draft a RB and stole Blount from Tennessee. Do you think they will change that now???”
Now while I didn’t agree with WHAT you said (mainly, like Hawaiin Buc said, because I don’t remember hearing him speak on that), it did help jar my memory into trying to remember what Dominik said.
Dominik’s draft/building philosophy is/was “you can never have enough quality CBs.” I will try to find the original quote (source/link) but I hope this will do for now….
http://tampa.cbslocal.com/2012/04/02/the-commishs-nfl-mock-draft-ii/
“The Commish” referenced this during his mock draft in our slot. Like I said, I will try to continue to find the/an original link, but that is the best I can do for now.
April 17th, 2012 at 10:32 pm
I still think we should trade down and get more picks.. We need help on defense..More important then anything if we can get two first round linebackers would help then one running back when we already have a good running back.. Heres my best reason why we dont need Trent because Bill Bellichick doesnt have a an elite RB.. Hes the best coach in the NFL.. they never draft any running backs because its not needed anymore.. passing is the future and so is defending the pass.. if we dont trade back im okay with taking the best DB available!
April 17th, 2012 at 10:32 pm
I sure hope @Joe doesn’t ban me for referencing another site on here, but again, this is the best I could find right now…
2nd quoted paragraph (gray box section)
Mark Dominik on his draft philosophy:
“For me personally and fundamentally – I’ve stolen this [philosophy] from the Jets because I like to take things that I believe from different organizations that are productive and can help a football team – you can never have enough cornerbacks,” Dominik said. “In the two years that I’ve been here we have drafted a cornerback in every [draft], and I don’t think you can have enough of them. It doesn’t affect me other than it reinforces my opinion that you can never have enough cornerbacks in the National Football League.”
http://network.yardbarker.com/nfl/article_external/mark_dominik_talks_draft/4606722
April 17th, 2012 at 10:33 pm
Saying you can never have enough quality CB’s is a far cry from “you should never draft RB’s early”. That’s all I am saying. I just can’t imagine him saying it, even if it is how he feels. Just not smart to say things like that.
April 17th, 2012 at 10:39 pm
@Nate,
The only difference is that they have a guy named Tom Brady as their QB. While I love Freeman, he’s not even in the same category as a guy like Brady. If Freeman were to have had another great season last year, I would probably agree that we should maybe look elsewhere. However, Freeman has yet to prove he can win by himself, ala Tom Brady. Brady wins without any big-time receivers r (minus Randy Moss who he never actually won a SB with). You just can’t compare what we are to what the Patriots have been. People also forget Bellicheck was a failure in Cleveland, and won nothing before Brady.
Besides, remember we need another team to be willing to trade up. It’s not that easy, which is why it doesn’t happen very often. There’s just not many teams willing to give up the farm to have a premium pick, and we shouldn’t give up that pick unless we get said farm. I don’t think anyone is opposed to us trading down, but the chances of it happening are pretty slim.
April 17th, 2012 at 11:17 pm
@Hawaiin Buc,
My research was only to point out how highly Dominik values CBs. It wa not to try to prove Funky Munky’s statement. That’s what I stated that although I didn’t agree with WHAT he said, it helped me to remember what DOMINIK said.
April 17th, 2012 at 11:33 pm
@Celly,
Oh no, I got you. I wasn’t arguing with you at all, I understood what you were saying.
April 18th, 2012 at 12:57 am
The schedule is out we need to draft MO!
QB’s We face this year:
Peyton Manning
Eli Manning
RG3
Michael Vick
Tony Romo
Drew Brees
Cam Newton
Matt Ryan
Phillip Rivers
Carson Palmer
Sam Bradford
April 18th, 2012 at 1:35 am
@Nate,
We’ve known who we were going to play for 4 months buddy. So we should draft a CB because this year we play that list of QB’s? You do realize that it typically takes a CB a couple years to figure things out right? So maybe we should worry about who we play in 2014.
April 18th, 2012 at 7:35 pm
@hawaiinbuc
Just about every article or tv showing I’ve seen says Mo is ready from day one to start and be effective!!! How does that mean atleast 2 years???
IF the Bucs were so high on RBs as you say they are. Why would we pass on Adrian Peterson, Deanglo Williams, Joseph Addai, Rashard Mendenhall, Chris Johnson, CJ Spiller, and Mark Ingram. What makes you think they are going to start now??? Mo is too big of a need or trading down to get more picks!!
April 18th, 2012 at 7:37 pm
Other note…Bleacherreport has us getting Mo and Martin with our 1st two picks this draft!!! That would be awesome. Still don’t think Martin will be there in the 2nd. But if so that would be a steal!!!
April 18th, 2012 at 7:40 pm
I also wouldn’t mind drafting Russel Wilson with our 5th round pick if he was still available. I think we should draft someone to be a solid backup and if Josh gets hurt, a good fill in. Russel would fit that mold perfectly. His draft position is very hard to guage. So who knows where he goes. Could be 2nd, 3rd……
April 18th, 2012 at 7:40 pm
I also wouldn’t mind drafting Russel Wilson with our 5th round pick if he was still available. I think we should draft someone to be a solid backup and if Josh gets hurt, a good fill in. Russel would fit that mold perfectly. His draft position is very hard to guage. So who knows where he goes. Could be 2nd, 3rd……
April 18th, 2012 at 7:48 pm
All that being said…you have your opinion and wishes on what they do with our picks as do I. So the good thing is the draft is only 8 days away!!!!!!!! And this will all be settled. Then people can celebrate and bltcch about who we get after that!! LOL….gotta love team chatrooms!!