Expect An Upgrade At Corner
February 28th, 2012
- Would the Chiefs allow cornerback Brandon Carr to walk away?
Joe is aware some of his readers may be weary of the following, but it bears repeating because it is so critical:
The Bucs need to upgrade at cornerback.
As we sit on the last day of February (damn, times a’ flying), it is a very real possibility that the Bucs will be looking at a starting cornerback tandem of Myron Lewis and E.J. Biggers, unless Bucs rock star general manager Mark Dominik and new coach Greg Schiano go cornerback shopping.
With those two going up against Drew Brees, Matty Ice and Cam Newton a total of six games a year, it’s positively frightening to think of the results.
That’s why it’s simply irresponsible of the Bucs to toy with the idea of drafting running back Trent Richardson if they haven’t grabbed a starting cornerback in free agency, never mind the fact a high first round pick spend on a running back is a terrible investment, never mind the fact the Bucs already have a running back.
Now Schiano has offered lip service that he welcomes veteran Ronde Barber (does Barber want to return?) and is willing to give troubled Aqib Talib a fresh start (how many days will that last?).
It seems information coming from Dominik, by way of Woody Cummings of the Tampa Tribune, suggests Dominik is indeed going cornerback shopping this offseason.
“That is certainly something we have to look into, yeah,” Dominik said from the NFL Scouting Combine. “And I say that not having any clue of who may actually make it to the market.
“But it’s a position that I’ve talked about in the past and that Coach Schiano shares the same beliefs about, so it would be ignorant for me to think (the cornerback position) is not important to us.”
This warms Joe’s heart to read this because, of course, Dominik is a very intelligent man.
If Joe were in Dominik’s shoes, he’d make a play for Chiefs cornerback Brandon Carr. Sure, the Chiefs may keep him, but Kansas City will have to cough up a lot of dough to keep Dwayne Bowe. Will they break the bank for two players?
Of course, Cortland Finnegan looms as well.
Pick up a solid free agent, draft Mo Claiborne at No. 5, and your cornerback troubles are gone.
February 28th, 2012 at 9:12 am
It’s a leap year Joe.
February 28th, 2012 at 9:17 am
If the Bucs can pick up Finnegan or Carr and get Claiborne that would dramatically improve the secondary with Barber as a wily vet playing on the slot… might be able to actually slow down the aerial attacks
February 28th, 2012 at 9:28 am
“never mind the fact a high first round pick spend on a running back is a terrible investment”
With the new CBA rookie scale, you can’t say that anyone or any postion doesn’t have value. That argument just doesn’t hold water anymore.
“..never mind the fact the Bucs already have a running back.”
What has he proven? Regardless of reason, what has he proven? And where is the depth behind him? There isn’t any.
I’m not against Claiborne at all, excellent player, but all the arguments against Trent Richardson I’m not buying.
February 28th, 2012 at 9:34 am
Great point about the CBA wage scale BucJeff
Going to throw another name out there though for #4 overall….Luke Kuechly. Kid probably moved into the top 10 with the day he had yesterday and at that point is it really that much of a stretch to make him a top 5 pick?
Add a stud MLB along with McCoy and Price (if they can stay healthy) and the middle of that D is looking pretty stout
February 28th, 2012 at 9:54 am
Two factors. If we get Finnegan or Carr in FA and there is not that much daylight between Claiborne and Jenkins, Kirkpatrick, Dennard, or Minnefield, I would definitely trade down, if possible, pick up a couple of extra picks and take a shot at Kuechly or another CB.
February 28th, 2012 at 9:56 am
Dominik is aware of the cornerback position.
awesome.
February 28th, 2012 at 10:01 am
Claiborne in the first, what about Hightower in the second. There is a chance he will be gone especially with Vontaze being HORRIBLE at the combine. However I think this kid is going to be a beast. Big strong linebacker who has some speed and can blitz as well. Claiborne and him would instantly help get this def back on track.
February 28th, 2012 at 10:05 am
@bucfanjeff and creamsicle
The CBA has nothing to do with RB being a bad investment high in the 1st round. It has to do with positional value and the fact that RB’s are for the most part, one contract players. Have you noticed how Forte, Rice, Foster, and Lynch are all sitting without long term contracts? That’s not just a coincidence, teams aren’t sure anymore if they want to give long term money to that position.
February 28th, 2012 at 10:28 am
@gotbbucs, They (RB’s) might be a one contract positions, but that doesn’t mean there is no value. The CBA rookie scaled has everything to do with value. In the past, the top 5 or so picks were getting MEGA-millions out of the gates, thus if they weren’t SUPREME ELITE players, the value is not there – wasted money. Now, they only (I say ‘only’ loosely!) get millions, not mega-millions. Newton in example, got 22 million all guaranteed. A QB in the #1 spot is the most money you could expect. No other position in that spot gets more. #5 last year, Patrick Peterson got 4yr 19.5 million all guaranteed. Nobody truly knows how TR will do, but all the signs point to an excellent player. If we have the opportunity to get TR for 20+/- million for 4 years and he’s as good as advertised from tape, worth every penny. There is no rule you have to re-sign him after 4 years. Forte, Rice, Forte and Lynch will all have new contracts soon – count on it.
February 28th, 2012 at 10:34 am
no sense of humour huh joe?
February 28th, 2012 at 10:35 am
my bad joe….my comment did not get posted.technical problem.
February 28th, 2012 at 10:37 am
@ gotbbucs
CBA (therefore $$$) has everything to do with good/bad investments in the first round
There’s a reason why DT’s, QB’s, and LT’s are overwhelmingly the positions that go top 5 more than any other positions….gigantic contracts. You weren’t going to pay a Safety (with Berry being an obvious exception), MLB, Guard, etc etc top 5 money because that would make a rookie one of the highest paid players at their position.
gottbbucs….the rookie wage scale changes everything as far as which positions go where in the draft. It’ll be hard for teams to break the habits but eventually they will catch on.
February 28th, 2012 at 10:54 am
Hosley, Jenkins, Gilmore….
Trade back and stack the roster with some draft picks.
February 28th, 2012 at 11:00 am
I totally agree with the idea of signing a FA CB like Carr or Finnegan and drafting Mo Claiborne because i’ve always seen it as a win-win for our Bucs.
Worst case scenario:
Carr/Finnegan and Mo Claiborne as the starting corners. I’m sure they’d even pick up another CB somewhere along the line whether it be FA or the draft. I’d feel comfortable with them joining Biggers and Lewis going into a game against any one of our division rivals.
Best case scenario:
Talib gets no jail time. Would probably still serve a game or two suspension from the commish. Barber decides he wants to return for another year to help out the new guys and provide that veteran leadership (last I remember, Ronde doesn’t mind playing special teams). I would definitely enjoy the competition at cornerback with Carr (or Finnegan)/Claiborne/Talib/Barber/Biggers/Lewis.
At the very least, we should have a solid enough cornerback group that can handle the multiple WR’s that our division uses…
February 28th, 2012 at 11:00 am
I’ll keep saying it until draft day: Just like Joe said, a free agent CB and Mo Claiborne
BUT, if Justin Blackmon is available, then I say GRAB HIM!!!! and get Kirkpatrick or Jenkins or Boykin or Gilmore in round 2.
February 28th, 2012 at 11:01 am
Trumaine Johnson in the third round and get the VT running back in the second
February 28th, 2012 at 11:15 am
stevek
IF, and it is a BIG IF, they get someone to trade back and make it worth their while, I would ALWAYS take more picks over fewer picks. Just my motto.
I would love to see them TRADE BACK and get another 2nd and a 4th
Rd 1: MLB Kuechly
Rd 2: CB Kirkpatrick/Jenkins/Boykin/ or Gilmore
Rd 2: TE or WR maybe?
Rd 3: RB w/ Speed – David Wilson/Doug Martin/LaMichael James/LaMar Miller
Rd 4: TE or WR?
I say get O-Line and DT depth in Free Agency as well as a vet WR and another LB
February 28th, 2012 at 11:15 am
A better pass rush automatically makes our secondary better, whoever we take.
I hope we get Finnegan in Tampa.
February 28th, 2012 at 11:16 am
Its a shame that the Bucs have so many holes to fill to become competitive. But good god don’t start picking up other teams cast offs( Finnegan or Grimes). Get some pieces that are more long term not quick fixes that will need to be addressed the following year. The Bucs could draft T-Richardson and it wouldn’t bother me. They need 2 backs anyway to keep them fresh. This would be dependent on his knee.
The Bucs have so much salary cap room that they can afford to overpay a little more for T-Rich. I believe with the new rookie pay scale under the CBA the cost should be far less. The Bucs need a great high profile player to help draw in other FA’s. FA’s look at what a team has to offer not always monetarily. The draft is not going to fix their problems right away.
February 28th, 2012 at 11:17 am
Big007hed Says:
February 28th, 2012 at 9:17 am
If the Bucs can pick up Finnegan or Carr and get Claiborne that would dramatically improve the secondary with Barber as a wily vet playing on the slot… might be able to actually slow down the aerial attacks
agree with Big007hed, although I still would like to see Blackmon up for consideration but Claiborne might be the best non QB in the draft and a more valuable spot. Hopefully we can address a true number 1 wr in free agency.
I’m a Gator guy as I’m sure a number of people on this board are. Jenkins was actually better then Joe Haden but he’s a true head case. A number of drug arrests and 4 kids before he was 23..
February 28th, 2012 at 11:21 am
dolman law looks to be a swell place to work
February 28th, 2012 at 11:21 am
They trade back like I was saying in the last post they could move Foster outside, get an awesome MLB to team with him, and anotehr free agent LB.
They could go free agency for a WR and another in the draft.
They could get their speedy RB in round 2-3
They could still get an outstanding CB to go with one in free agency
They could also draft a TE and adress line O-line and D-line depth in free agency and in the later rounds.
Just trying to point out, the more the merrier IF… IF… IF it possible. More needs can be addressed and a better chance of having draft picks “hit” when you have more.
Yes, I have been harping on getting Blackmon if he is available, but if I could trade down, I would in every single draft and get extra 2nd-4th round picks.
February 28th, 2012 at 11:25 am
I’m confused a bit.
I fully understand that there is a lot of uncertainty at the CB position with Talib and Barber. But those two are at least functional starters, right?
We have two failures at OLB. Two proven failures. And everyone is focusing on the CB position…
February 28th, 2012 at 11:31 am
I think everyone would agree that we could use a RB. Where we disagree is where we should get one. At #5 I say NO! We have Blount. It’s not like he is unproductive, he just needs another back to push him. We could get Doug Martin in the second and have a fantastic duo of RB’s. I Martin is in on third down they still have to respect the play action because he is an every down
back and he can block and catch. That way we pick up Claiborne in the first and we have our shut down corner as well as a stud RB. If we didn’t have ANY RB then I would be more down with getting Richardson but with Blount we really don’t need Richardson.
February 28th, 2012 at 11:31 am
the trade down scenarios seem like an option but are other teams willing to move up and give a 2nd and 4th? with RG3 gone probably at #2 with the Rams trade I’m not sure people are willing to move up unless they wan’t Claiborne that bad or Kalil (think he will be gone by pick 5 though)
February 28th, 2012 at 11:36 am
Bobby,
Fix CB in FA.
Draft Trent Richardon, he would be the best possible upgrade for the Bucs at # 5.
It would be easier to bring in a top flight CB in FA, and then add the BEST playmaker in the draft at #5.
Drafting Richardson would create depth at a position, and would also shoulder some of the load from Freeman.
February 28th, 2012 at 11:48 am
Carr and Claiborne
February 28th, 2012 at 12:40 pm
The idea of trading the 5th pick to get more picks in the later rounds sounds great. If you have an excellent talent evaluating staff. Lets face it the Bucs a very suspect in this arena. Just take the best player on the board at 5 and call it a day. Any real gains are going to have to be through Free Agency. I vomit in my mouth when Dom talks about building in the draft.
February 28th, 2012 at 12:42 pm
Sign Finnegan or Carr and get Kuechly. Unfortunately Macabee’s ideal scenario where we trade down and get Kuechly is unlikely because of his combine performance. We’ll probably have to take him at 5 unless we find someone who wants to move up a few spots only.
February 28th, 2012 at 12:56 pm
First:
Why does everyone think that signing a top five pick for a four year contract, then letting him go at the end, is an alright investment? You pick a player in the top five that you expect to contribute for the next ten years or more…THAT is why a RB is a bad investment in the top 5, top 10, heck maybe even in the first round.
Second:
For all those screaming “trade back!! trade back!” It takes two to tango; before you continue with this rhetoric, try to come up with some situation where a team would be willing to trade up the less than handful of spots required for us to get Kuechly in the top ten, AND would give up anything really worth having (like the 2nd and 4th king’s ransom people seem to think we can get). I never thought I would say this, because the comment always annoyed me personally, but you guys really ARE acting like you are playing a game of Madden.
February 28th, 2012 at 1:01 pm
If we can’t get a CB in free agency that can actually pick the ball off, then we may as well double dip in the draft.
Why is it people keep suggesting FA CBs that barely pick off the ball?
February 28th, 2012 at 1:08 pm
If we could sign Brandon Carr and Cortland Finnegan then I would be ok if we don’t draft Mo. IF we only sign one of the above 2 names then I would be irrate if we didn’t draft Mo if he was still there. But if we somehow were to get Carr and Finnegan then I would go with OT or Blackmon. I would love Matt Kalil if Minnesota doesn’t get him.
Trent Richardson is RB with a knee issue. That right there says you don’t draft this kid at #5. Terrible business move. The avg for RBs careers is only 3 years. Mo, Blackmon, Kalil, Reiff. They will all have 10 plus year careers if healthy. Makes no sense to get Trent. We need a smaller speed back to pair with Blount. A combo of Blount and Trent absolutley does not work. Blount can’t be a 3rd down back and you don’t invest the #5 pick in the draft for a RB if he isn’t your everydown back. Atleast 1st and 2nd. Blount can’t pass protect well enough and doesn’t catch very well out of the back field. Blount would not be resigned if we get Trent. This goes against everything our team has said for the last 3 years or so.
Lamichael James, Ronnie Hillman, Isaiah Pead, one of those guys would pair great with Blount IMO.
February 28th, 2012 at 1:55 pm
@Stevek….I would rather they got Blackmon than Richardson. I don’t see the value in Richardson at #5. Is he good….yes. Is he that far ahead of a Doug Martin…probably not. Every year later round picks and undrafted players are making an impact as RB’s. Blackmon would be a better pick in my opinion if Claiborne is off the board. If both Blackmon and Claiborne are off of the board then we should take Kalil. He would make more sense than Richardson.
Either that or if someone wants to trade up then make that trade.
February 28th, 2012 at 3:04 pm
PopStar says:
“Certainly something we have to look into, yeah, and I say that not having any clue of who may actually make it to the market. It’s a position that I’ve talked about in the past and that Coach Schiano shares the same beliefs about, so it would be ignorant for me to think it is not important to us.”
Joe reads that quote and says:
“This warms Joe’s heart to read this because, of course, Dominik is a very intelligent man.”
What are Chris Matthews (saying that Obama sends a chill up Matthews’ leg when Obama speaks?
What is “very intelligent” about that? We have a 37 year-old 16 year vet and a often injured, mediocre when not injured, while being proecuted again for a serious crime. And Joe thinks Pop star is brilliant for agreeing that the team has to look at corner.
That could not be more obvious – its not brilliant. Is it brilliant when the repub candidates say that gas prices need to come down?
Sometimes the agenda to elevate a 17-31, no playoff GM is, patently on display.
February 28th, 2012 at 4:19 pm
Joe loves it when you are angry, Thomas.
February 28th, 2012 at 5:31 pm
Thanks Joe.
You know how it gets to me when you undeservedly fawn all over Dom. “It warms your heart because . . . Dom is a very intelligent man.” Huh? What?
Lets save the heart warming and pump-up job for his first second place division finish or, aghast!, a playoff appearance!
February 28th, 2012 at 8:06 pm
Again, just wondering. Don’t all of you who disagreed with me last year, wish we had signed a FA CB last year
February 28th, 2012 at 8:22 pm
@Capt. Tim
I was the leader of the small bandwagon to sign Jonathon Joseph. All he did is go out and play great football for Houston and only got around 7mil a season to do it.
Cortland Finnegan is after the same contract as Joseph and Brandon Carr should get around the same. We could have 2 amazing CBs that are both still young for around 12-14 mil a year. Thats less than the “top” CBs are making by themselves.
February 28th, 2012 at 8:36 pm
I also think we should sign Laron Landry in FA. He is absolutely huge now. His biceps have to be around 30″. I would like him and Michael Griffin in FA. I know its not possible to get everyone I want because we have to resign our own guys soon. But we still have atleast 30-40 million to spend on FAs that are not our own. Spend atleast 25 million on defense to give us a chance.
2 CBs Cortland Finnegan, Brandon Carr
1 Safety Laron Landry or Michael Griffin
1-2 LBs Stephen Tulloch, _________
1 DT Solagi or whatever it is…the DT from Miami
I think with the TEs in football ala Jimmy Graham it forces teams to play more 3-4 D to be able to try and stop them. We have some of the starting pieces already and with FA and the draft still to come. We can really commit to a better defense. We don’t have to be strictly a 4-3 or 3-4 or even a 5-2 front.
February 28th, 2012 at 9:58 pm
FunkeyMunkey- that’s a great list, and I’m on board with it. But I still don’t believe they will spend much money on FAs
Time will tell.
But that list would cure what ails us
February 28th, 2012 at 10:00 pm
But Jonathan Joseph, last year, would have made a huge difference. Bet our record would have been better.
But they ignored team needs then, and may ignore them now
February 28th, 2012 at 11:27 pm
Thomas is going to look like an idiot if Schiano wins Aa Superbowl with most of Doms previous picks.
February 29th, 2012 at 8:25 am
We could of signed a db like carlos rodgers for cheap, or just cut myron lewis and kept kyle arrington. Good moves rockstar
February 29th, 2012 at 8:26 am
Oh and capt, you said you had sources that we were signing nnamdi. How did that source work out for u
February 29th, 2012 at 8:57 am
Jarrett- no, I said they were trying to sign Nnamandi. No one can be sure they will sign a free agent, as ultimately no matter what the offer, the player decides where they want to play, and no one can force them.
According to Espn reports, that were being updated all the night he signed, we were in the last three bidding. We were still talking to him 2to him, 2 hours before he put ink to paper
So that would make me correct that they pursued him hard.
Which is one time more than you have ever been right about anything your dumba** has ever said on here- right” going to the playoffs last year” psychic?
You havent been right anything. Not only predictions, but just football knowledge in general. Just clueless.
Anyone with any self respect, who had embarrassed them selfs as badly as you have, would have quit trying to sound knowledgeable, and just agreed with someone who actually knows what they are talking about!
You have become a joke, when mentioned among the frequent posters here.
February 29th, 2012 at 3:08 pm
@jarrett
We almost signed Nnamdi last season. Just fell short. He wanted to be on the “dream team” and we lost out. It happens to everyteam in the league that doesn’t get “their” man.
AND before last season Carlos Rodgers sucked. Its easy to say now that we should’ve signed him for cheap since he had 1 good year last season. But before that he was terrible in Washington. He got lit up almost as bad as EJ Biggers. No team really wanted him last offseason. That was for a reason. But this offseason he will get paid based on 1 year of good football. It worked out for SF but they have a great D already. Thats why he excelled. Don’t think he would’ve done much here on our D last season. Hell I don’t know if Revis would do well with last seasons D. Thats sad!!!!!!
February 29th, 2012 at 5:19 pm
Capt you are the biggest joke among all posters. I from the beginning have been consistent that the owners are cheap. Consistent is when you do things the same way, or in this case when you constantly say the same thing. If i am never right why now are you singing the same tune i have for years. I only post to keep your retarded a$$ in check. Cant wait til a year from now when your saying you love schiano. Youll probably try to take credit for the hiring. Still waiting for the day you go away.
February 29th, 2012 at 5:21 pm
@funkeymunkey Carlos Rodgers was never horrible, and arrington should be the nickle for our team.