Winslow Comes Cheap This Season
February 19th, 2012
While Kellen Winslow shared a me-first attitude for all Bucs fans to see this past season, Joe clearly sees Winslow’s value and would like him get a clean slate from the new coaching staff.
Sure, Joe would cut or bench Winslow if his whiney ways and questionable blocking effort returned, but Winslow hardly was the “problem” with the Bucs’ offense and he still catches balls — 75 last year during another healthy season.
NFC South blogger Pat Yasinskas, of ESPN.com, isn’t feeling that kind of Winslow vibe. Yasinskas wrote about the likelihood of Winslow getting cut in a post Saturday. His reasoning somewhat stunned Joe; Yasinskas seems to believe the Bucs might want to save the few million bucks their tight end would cost.
Now, as I look at the details of Winslow’s contract, I’d be even less surprised if the Bucs released him. They don’t really need salary-cap space because they already have about $68 million, thanks in large part to unused cap space from 2011 that has been carried over.
But they could instantly free up another $4.8 million in cap space by releasing Winslow. That $4.8 million figure is what Winslow’s cap figure is slated to be in 2012 and the Bucs wouldn’t suffer any cap hit if they got rid of Winslow. That’s because the contract Winslow signed after the Bucs traded for him in 2009 was structured in a unique way.
He did not receive any signing bonus, so there is no outstanding pro-rated bonus money on a contract that runs through 2014. Instead of a signing bonus, the Bucs guaranteed about $20 million in base salary in the first three years of Winslow’s deal.
Winslow is scheduled to earn $3.3 million in base salary this season …
Maybe Joe’s missing something, but Winslow seems like a great value at $3.3 million + potential bonus money. And why would the Bucs need more salary cap room? In addition, if Winslow’s on the team and the Bucs cut him to send a message of discipline to the club, that’s hardly an expensive lesson to teach a young NFL roster.
February 19th, 2012 at 10:28 am
Tired of his act
February 19th, 2012 at 10:32 am
It would be stupid to cut Winslow. Sure he’s a premadonna but every team has 1. There are a ton of other players to cut to set an example. If the team needs an example cut Black. What better way to show if you dont produce your gone no matter if your in the last year of a contract or if you just signed a new one a year before ( dumb move Dominik). Winslow can and should be a big part of our offense. He has talent (not blocking talent) and paired with another tight end (not named Stocker) should be a great tandem. We have far more issues than worrying about a player that wants the ball. What competitive player doesn’t)
February 19th, 2012 at 10:40 am
At times last year, I was one of the biggest Winslow haters out there, and who could blame me. However, I think he should be given a fresh start and see how he does with the new coaches. If Schiano is true to his word, none of the Winslow acts and antics will happen like last year or else he will be off the team. Even though Winslow has slowed down, doesn’t get separation as well as he use to, causes way too many penalties, and runs the wrong routes in the last quarter of the season, he still had 75 catches and 700 plus yards. I say keep Winslow and see what we have out of Stocker a little bit more, and go from there. Maybe draft a TE in the later parts of the round instead of just picking up blocking TE that will never be anything in free agency.
February 19th, 2012 at 10:45 am
So sick of Pat Yakkysak on ESPN. What a complete douchebag.
K2 caught 75 passes last year. Who else are you going to replace him with for $3.3 million or less?
I really don’t understand how ESPN actually writes that guy checks for the doo-doo he puts on the internet.
February 19th, 2012 at 10:57 am
Joe- Did I miss something? Why is the guy who has been the leading receiver since he got to the team, breaking TE records, and giving effort even when the team was struggling even being considered for the “hot seat”. Everyone had an bad season this year, most of all Freeman, forcing it into everyone! But he’s not on the hot seat. I think Winslow is a great assets to the team, and for 3.3mil this year, he comes very cheap for someone of his caliber. And for everyone flaming he’s “oft injured” I don’t think the guy has missed a game since he’s been here, am I right? Lets deal with the real issues of this team, like CB, DL, WR etc. This is why us fans suffer through these awful seasons year after year, we are placing blame on the wrong people! Sorry for the vent fest, just really makes me mad when things don’t make any sense. GO BUCS!- THE REAL FAN
February 19th, 2012 at 10:58 am
Your right Joe,that’s a bargain if Winslow gets right mentally and physically,if not sit him!Yasinskas makes alot of rush to judgements!
February 19th, 2012 at 11:00 am
He can’t block and the refs seem to have it in for him, but other than that he’s a real peach!
February 19th, 2012 at 11:08 am
I think that they should be willing to pay 3.3 million to send him packing.
He is terribly average as a pass catcher – I have seen more seperation betwen Joe and Mark Dominik at a Bucs mixer.
We need a weapon at the position – everyone else in the division has one.
February 19th, 2012 at 11:15 am
Kellen is on a watch list by the refs for sure. I watched many other games where receivers did much worse than most of the calls against him this year. Bottom line is he is still one of the most talented players on offense. With more hopefully added weapons around him he will be a needed weapon to keep defenses guessing. I think Stocker has much more in him if they actually pass to him more than once every other game. They might add a free agent opposite of Kellen as well like Carolina did with Olsen and Shockey. Can’t wait to see…
February 19th, 2012 at 11:18 am
Out with the old….Winslow is NOT part of the future here in Tampa….
February 19th, 2012 at 11:25 am
@Josh-Not too sure about Stocker, now he’s an “Oft-Injured” TE. I mean the kid couldn’t get it together this season. I definitely think they need to bring in another TE to compliment Winslow though.
February 19th, 2012 at 11:42 am
5mil salary + bonuses, bad knees, can’t/won’t block, limited practice,good possession receiver, but no YAC, add in the negative intangibles = maybe/maybe not. Depends on whether we can replace him without taking a step back.
What is the outlook for Stocker? Would they consider a Ladarius Green in the 3rd round? Could a hydrid WR/TE like Stephen Hill, GTech, work out? Will Jermichael Finley get the Ftag and at what cost if avaiable? Can we get a 4th round pick in a trade?
I wouldn’t cut him until I had good answers for those questions and a plan for replacement!
February 19th, 2012 at 11:43 am
Davis recruited him in college,and drafted him to cleveland.k2aint going anywhere and will be a model of proffesionalism.watch and see
February 19th, 2012 at 11:49 am
Add to the end of the last paragraph in my previous post – “no more premature Ruud/Cadillac moves, please!”.
February 19th, 2012 at 11:50 am
He should have to compete for a starting job. Bring in a more explosive TE. K2 is getting slow and lost a step.
February 19th, 2012 at 11:52 am
A team that thinks it is a Power Running Team, must have tight ends who can really block.
February 19th, 2012 at 11:54 am
We need to get better offensive weapons before we can truly tell about Winslow. There is a reason that Josh Freeman had to force so many balls to him last season… It’s because he was the best weapon on our team last year. Other teams knew that they could double and triple cover him and Josh still would try to get the ball to him because the other guys couldn’t get open! Once we get a true deep threat to open up the field for Winslow, I think he’ll be a fantastic weapon in our offense.
February 19th, 2012 at 11:59 am
Why would we cut him??? We have who Luke Stocker as a backup??? He sucked in College and hasn’t done anything to show he can be our everydown TE. And, KW2 would still have trade value. Even if its a 4th or 5th rounder. Take it over cutting him. Until we get a better TE, this doesn’t make sense to me. And what is 4 million when you have 68 million to spend. And we will have atleast 15 players cut minimum. So we have a ton of holes to fill besides TE.
February 19th, 2012 at 12:02 pm
Slow, no yac’s, bad route runner even when he runs the right routes, a glass knee, worst run blocking TE in the NFL, penalty magnet, plus over half of Freeman’s pics last year were when he was trying to force the ball to a Winslow who couldn’t get open. Unfortunately though there may not be a better option. Even though he’s probably a big question mark to the new coaching staff as they watch his film from last year, you can only turn over so much of a team’s roster in one off-season and the Bucs have bigger fish to fry.
February 19th, 2012 at 12:12 pm
But he’s a ssssoooolllllddddiiieeeerrrrr!!!!
February 19th, 2012 at 12:34 pm
He’s either all in, including off-season workouts in TAMPA and practicing or he’s gone. It’s really not about the money but about whether or not he’s a fit with this team in the eyes of the new regime. Up to them, not message board posters………thank GOD!
February 19th, 2012 at 12:38 pm
i think he stays, we have 68 mil in space. does anyone out there think were going to spend up to that 68? the answer is no. i think he stay not cuz of Davis (remember hes not the HC) but becuz he could b useful if we can stretch the field. ive been saying i want Richardson but we may have to look at Blackmon if hes there at 5. its fun to talk about but let wait and see who will be available in a few weeks. BUC IT IM OUT!!!!!!!!!!
February 19th, 2012 at 12:57 pm
All judgements on Winslow’s pass catching came from this past year. The year before that he was fine.
What this tells me is that clearly something changed.
And that something was being rested so much that he didn’t even know the routes anymore and the timing between he and Freeman was screwed up.
That wouldn’t be the case this year.
And frankly, those saying they are “tired of his crap” don’t know their rears from a hole in the ground. Winslow was not talking much crap last year. Yes, he may have expressed some frustrations, but then, so did other players and the fans.
Don’t hate on him for doing what you would have done.
And as far as resting too much…I still say that had more to do with Dominick and Morris protecting their investment than Winslow actually wishing to sit out practices.
He’s good enough to receive a little rest here and there, but not to the point where his game suffers. It wasn’t the only line Mark and Raheem crossed last year.
February 19th, 2012 at 12:59 pm
And I just love how people are ready to cut him without a suitable replacement…just so they can whine later about how Dominick should never have cut him…like they did with Ruud.
February 19th, 2012 at 1:14 pm
Luke Stocker did NOT suck in college…..he had a hip injury from the first few days of camp….he is not a Winslow type of player…but when healthy he will wrech havoc in the seams and find the open space in the defense….he will be a very good TE next year…
February 19th, 2012 at 1:26 pm
Rasta is right…
February 19th, 2012 at 1:34 pm
Martellus Bennett.
February 19th, 2012 at 1:41 pm
Ernest Byner interviewing for RB coach. Steve Loney interviewing for Asst O-line coach. Good stuff men.
February 19th, 2012 at 1:46 pm
While I am not a PFF loyalist, I do like how the rank receivers by a # of routes run versus yards gained ratio.
This is great bc it accounts for receivers who drop balls and dont get open. These stats expose how Winslow sucks.
For tight ends with over 400 routes Winslow is second worst.
The best is Jimmy Graham: 540 routes, 1301 yards = 2.41 rr/y. (Gronk was 2nd best at 2.37).
The worst is Brandon Pettigrew: 566, 777 = 1.37.
Second worst is winslow: 541, 771 = 1.41.
(that means for the same number of routes run you get almost twice the yards out of Graham and Gronk) (for comparison Jared Cook of the Titans was targeted 40 fewer times than winslow 74-114 but had virtually the same yards receiving). Jared Cook is much better than Winslow statistically.
Winslow is just terrible. If you add in that he is a locker room cancer and a penalty magnent and cant/wont block – he may be the worst starting tight end in the NFL – seriously.
February 19th, 2012 at 1:47 pm
Steve Loney……we need Joe Don Looney….;-)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Don_Looney
before Fantasy Football this guy was fantastic…
February 19th, 2012 at 1:49 pm
Pete:
Almost anyone is a suitable replacement fow Winslow today – he is just not a good player anymore and he has never been a good teammate.
February 19th, 2012 at 2:02 pm
…and Byner is now the RBs coach! Coached CJ2K and MJD in the past 3 years.
Soon to be coaching Legarrette Blount and Trent Richardson 🙂
February 19th, 2012 at 2:13 pm
Lol they already have byner as bucs rb coach on wikipedia.
February 19th, 2012 at 2:14 pm
The Bucs have hired a new coach as running backs coach Former cleveland brown Ernest Byner. He finished his career 16th all time on the nfl rushing list. Good move bucs
February 19th, 2012 at 2:17 pm
Wow, I guess you idiots want our team to suck even more. Get rid of Winslow? Out of all the problems this team has? How bout we get rid of the ACTUAL garbage like Quincy Black? That guy is robbing millions from the Bucs right now!
Morons
February 19th, 2012 at 2:24 pm
Agreed Snook. Yasinskas is the worst.
February 19th, 2012 at 2:32 pm
My philosophy on Winslow: “I’ll tolerate you until I can replace you.”
Two of the last 3 years he’s been a top 10 tight end on a young offense. If we can pick up a guy who can potentially replace that production then let him go/demote him. If not keep him around. He one of the hardest workers on the team, he’s a vet on a team clearly lacking vets and if used properly he can still be a weapon.
February 19th, 2012 at 2:39 pm
OMG, what? Are you kidding me? K2 is an incredible pass catcher. 700 yards for a bad year. The guy does have bad knees, doesn’t practice and isn’t a good blocker but the guy can catch and he has passion(something I’d question in 95% of the players on our current roster). Passes were forced in his direction last year b/c he has a history of getting it done and has proved that time and time again in his tenure here. His utter frustration with not winning was mistaken for him having a “bad attitude”. I don’t blame the guy at all for his actions.
Get us a change-up back, a deep threat and find another TE(Locker?) that can catch and block opposite of Winslow and we’ll see K2 shine through for what he truly is…a for-sure 1st down.
February 19th, 2012 at 2:46 pm
Why would Winslow catch as many balls or get as many YAC as Gronk and Graham when the opposing team is double and triple covering him in an offense that had horrendous play-calling with Lumpkin in the backfield and Trueblood pass-blocking for him?
February 19th, 2012 at 2:48 pm
his cap savings are worth more than his presence…..
February 19th, 2012 at 2:51 pm
Thomas…at least use realism when you post.
February 19th, 2012 at 2:55 pm
Earnest Bynerhas been hired as RB coach.
It feels like they are just plugging holes at this point.
February 19th, 2012 at 2:57 pm
@ RastaMon
Because we need to free up more cap space to sign all those free agents? LOL
February 19th, 2012 at 3:06 pm
Bucs1:
You could say that.
February 19th, 2012 at 3:09 pm
@Bucs1realfan
“Oft-injured”? How many years has the guy played?
February 19th, 2012 at 4:10 pm
It is so hard to give a good judgement of any of our offensive players based off of last year. If I had to judge based purely of of what I saw difference wise between 2010 and 2011 I would say that Winslow seemed to have way more trouble seperating, got almost zero YAC because of that, and got frustrated because of that and started pushing off alot more.
I’m inclined to give most of our skill guys on offense a pass this year, but depth needs to be built behind guys like Winslow and Blount to insure that we’re not left empty handed if they can’t produce again, and no SensibleBuc, that does not mean wasting a top 5 pick on Trent Richardson.
February 19th, 2012 at 4:14 pm
Kellen Davis would be a great replacement for Winslow.
February 19th, 2012 at 5:29 pm
The numbers dont lie, Winslow stinks. 700 yards on well over 500 routes just stinks.
Jared Cook had 40 fewer targets and delivered the same yardage, if you deduct Winslow’s penalty yardage he is less than 700 yards – for your most targeted receiver – stinks.
750 yards is less than 50 yards per game, that is horrible for your most targeted receiver.
You guys who think Winslow is a good player are stuck on the talent he was out of Miami pre-motorcycle injury.
He hasnt been that player for years.
February 19th, 2012 at 5:44 pm
Winslow had more catches and yards in 2010 so 2011 wasnt a down year – it was up from 2010.
Football outsiders ranked winslow based on performance as the 33rd best tight end in 2011.
33rd.
In pass catching stats, he may be last if you include blocking. Stop evaluating players subjectively, it will fail you every time, productivity is measurable.
February 19th, 2012 at 5:49 pm
You can purchase an asset, not a liability with 3.3 million.
February 19th, 2012 at 6:46 pm
* in Buc history
February 20th, 2012 at 11:21 am
Sign John Carlson, runs good routes, good hands, good tech blocking. Stocker if healthy is your #2, Sign Gilmore back as your back up/blocking TE.
CUT SGT WINSLOW…
February 20th, 2012 at 11:41 am
@I_Miss#40 We missed Gilmore this season. Unfortunately, I am a UT fan and Stocker was never a stand out there, the most passes he ever caught there was 40. So we know he’s going to be a middle of the road guy, not a Winslow caliber. But if we bring a strong blocker for Winslow we’ll get him back to 2009-2010 form.