Veterans Are Part Of The Problem
December 19th, 2011
Joe routinely hears Bucs fans and pundits claim that the Bucs have fallen apart because, in part, that they don’t have enough veteran players that have the character and experience to weather tough times.
Joe finds this reasoning silly, and Joe points to the offensive line as Exhibit A.
Arguably, the line has had its two worst games of the season over the past two games. The running game has done nothing. Donald Penn has been beaten badly. Jeremy Trueblood looks soft. (Yes, Joe remembers when you could at least count on Trueblood for intensity and finishing blocks.) Raheem Morris even criticized the entire left side of the offensive line after the Jacksonville drubbing. And Josh Freeman has been getting heat.
Last Joe checked the O-line is a veteran unit cashing massive paychecks coached by a highly-regarded veteran offensive line coach handpicked by Greg Olson.
This is one reason Joe hangs a lot on the Bucs’ coaching staff. Even the treasured veterans seemingly have checked out.
December 19th, 2011 at 11:01 am
The whole team is just mailing it in at this point.
December 19th, 2011 at 11:08 am
Did you guys see Ronde giving it everything he had? Stuffed that guy on the pitch out.
What a great player.
Remember when the whole defense used to do that?
December 19th, 2011 at 11:08 am
The Idiots in Tampa FIRED the O Line Coach from last years 10 and 6 team, and let Cadillac Williams walk. The result ? Josh Freeman has been running for his life this year all too often.
December 19th, 2011 at 11:18 am
I remember when the defense used to defend, not scrimmage
December 19th, 2011 at 11:20 am
Nobody seems to care about losing. That sucks .. Now I wasnt there but the one clip they showed GMC he was off on his own talking with Crowder. If he was a true leader he would be involved with his teammates. MAYBE he was ??
THe problem with the team is they are just too laid back. Everything is just kind of like WHATEVER happens .. Happens
December 19th, 2011 at 11:23 am
McCoy looked like a kid on the school yard after playing four square.
(might be dating myself there)
December 19th, 2011 at 11:23 am
It is funny that they Bucs fired probably their only disciplinarian in Pete Mangurian last year.
Do we actually have a coach (outside of maybe Millard) that IS a disciplinarian?
December 19th, 2011 at 11:26 am
Um…I said in the start of the season that our offensive line sucked. I pointed out then that penalties would be a major issue with it.
So don’t act so surprised, people.
It isn’t that they have given up, it’s that they never had it to begin with. They had one decent year, and have sucked since then. The only true starters are Faine and Penn, and Penn looks like a goodyear blimp these days.
Trueblood has learned to control his behavior on field (so far), but still sucks badly.
I also pointed out at the start of hte season that the Bucs running game would not take off without a good oline.
With the way they run block, our prize RB will suffer a career ending injury before they are able to use him properly.
So here’s the deal, people
Even if Morris is fired and the best coach available is brought in, we’re still at LEAST 2 years from excelling…maybe 3.
December 19th, 2011 at 11:30 am
Vince Lombardi couldn’t have gotten Penn and Trueblood to block Saturday night!!
December 19th, 2011 at 11:31 am
Scotty in Fat Antonio,
You may be right. Tell me, what actions would you take if you were coaching the team? How would you create more discipline?
Because I’m thinking it’s already being tried. Morris made an example by throwing a key player out of a game. He benched another player for 2 games. He’s had them working like dogs in practices, including using an extra padded one. He’s humiliated them by teaching them like rookies this past week, taking them back to the basics.
Just curious, aside from cutting players, which he cannot do, what would you do in his position?
December 19th, 2011 at 11:36 am
There are Veterans and there are Veterans. TO is a Veteran.
What we need is another Hardy Nickerson, John Lynch, Mike Alstott, Warren Sapp type. I know there aren’t many of them around in Free Agency and they would cost a great deal of money, but as someone said, you have to have a guy that is a player these young guys appreciate for his play level, has a leadership personality, and is willing to take the leadership role.
None of the guys you mentioned in the article are. I really don’t see how one can equate Jeremy Trueblood to the kind of Veterans many of us have been talking about.
I think you missed the point that the guys longing for veteran players are trying to make. Now if you want to tell us that they aren’t the proverbial “needle in a haystack”, you might be right. But we need that kind of Veteran.
December 19th, 2011 at 11:37 am
Hiring Plant High’s Head Coach would be an improvement.
December 19th, 2011 at 11:40 am
Pete, Faine and Penn? You don’t even list Joseph who is easily the best player on our line.
December 19th, 2011 at 11:43 am
Joe, if we replace Raheem, and I am reluctant to do so, I believe that Bill O’Brien is the OC for the Patriots. Putting him with Josh should be interesting and he knows the Patriots way.
Based on what Pete Dutcher said in another line, it is too late to bench or cut anyone, which I don’t believe because you could call up someone and see them play, and that Raheem can’t do it, the cutting, something must be done, Joe and Pete what would you do?
December 19th, 2011 at 11:43 am
And Faine sucks. I’d rather have Zuttah at center.
December 19th, 2011 at 11:43 am
Everyone likes to make the GB Packers as an example of building though the draft…..
But look at three of the major uys that rebuilt the Packer traditions….Reggie White, Brett Favre, and Charles Woodson. Few remember how bad the Packers were before Favre and White were signed. I do.
December 19th, 2011 at 11:46 am
I thnk what he did with Price was probably needed but it was way too little too late. Obviously the players didnt take heed for his action. He should have started this the first time Talib “screwed up” on the field.
Raheem’s quote about “I will tolerate you until I can replace you” should be thrown out the door. Go ahead and replace/cut the player or players who arent giving 110% effort or are a definite cancer to the team. For some reason, the name “Faine” comes to mind, though I have no real proof. Geez, that is why we have a practice squad, waiver wire, etc. I quarantee the guy(s) on the practice squad would give 110% effort. Call it the Jimmy Johnson style of coaching.
I would be happy if Raheem treated them more as a parent versus a buddy buddy or peer. Unfortunately, Raheem being around the same age as some of the players doesnt help his cause.
December 19th, 2011 at 11:48 am
We desperately need one All Pro or close to All Pro guy on this team with a willingness to challenge these guys. Not a Pro Bowl popularity contest guy. We aren’t even close to having such a player and this year we aren’t even close to the later.
December 19th, 2011 at 11:50 am
We have scored 247 points, second in futility only to the Rams in NFC
We have given up 401, second in futility only to the Vikes in NFC.
Definately hard to get both units that low at the same time. That took some effort. Usually if your horrific defensively you get some garbage scores with the other team in the prevent – like Dallas Sat. night.
Its flabbergasting.
I swear the 76 team could beat them. And I know the defense was better.
December 19th, 2011 at 11:53 am
The silence out of the One Buc Place is deafening. I guess the Glazers must have blinders on when they watch these games. Are they seeing the same garbage that we are seeing? Brian and Joel, your team is terrible, the coach you hired is terrible, your GM is terrible, the players you have on the field are terrible. Wake up and smell the coffee boys you have a pile of S*** as a team and I guess you want us all to suck it up and go buy some tickets? Are you kidding me??? Come down out of the ivory tower make a coaching change and give fans some hope we will not see the same clowns represent the Bucs next year. The CHEAP EXPERIMENT FAILED. Please go back to the real way to build an NFL team.
December 19th, 2011 at 11:53 am
How can these players forget the fundamentals of playing football as they have been doing it their whole lives? Are they afraid they are going to get fined for hitting someone? Funny how it doesn’t seem to effect the other 31 teams.
Speaking of which. Did you see the AWESOME hit Brady took yesterday? It was a thing of beauty and totally legal as he did not lead with his helmet.
December 19th, 2011 at 11:55 am
I think at 4-10 there are no easy answers. The only thing I can think of is…this team does NOT listen to this staff!!!
Remember, we beat the Saints and the Falcons…the current team is a SHELL of those guys earlier in the year.
There is no heart in this team…one thing goes wrong and they fold up like a house of cards.
December 19th, 2011 at 11:56 am
Good question, OB.
Let’s see…
…first, I would tell my team, straight up, that THEY are playing for THEIR jobs at this point. IF they want to be starters, they better play better than anyone else.
…then I would tell Dominick to get me a new OC & DC in the off season. I would request that the OC be someone strict, but experienced with young QBs.
…for the DC I would request one that has 3-4 experience, but has a focus on 4-3…and a strict educator.
…I would focus on being a head coach first, and not wear multiple hats.
…I would tell Dominick that I am demoting Biggers until he shows he should be a starter, and that he needs to get me a first round CB in hte draft, and sign a quality vet as well. That way the rookie can be developed and we have a replacement for Talib if we need one.
…I would TELL me defense that I expect them to score 60 points each year, and I don’t care how they do it.
…I would tell Dominick to get me 2 new Olinemen that can run block, get me a pounding fullback, and a wide reciever that can stretch the field.
…I would insist on a new WR coach.
And finally, I would tell me team that penalties equal punishment from this point on…on an individual basis. Any player getting more than 2 penalties in a game would be benched in the following game, and any player that has 6 penalties in 4 games would be suspended for 2 games without pay.
December 19th, 2011 at 12:01 pm
I think the key phrase in this article thats being overlooked is “handpicked by Olson”
December 19th, 2011 at 12:09 pm
“And finally, I would tell me team that penalties equal punishment from this point on…on an individual basis. Any player getting more than 2 penalties in a game would be benched in the following game, and any player that has 6 penalties in 4 games would be suspended for 2 games without pay.”
Simply quite possibly the DUMBEST thing I’ve EVER heard….
December 19th, 2011 at 12:16 pm
Bucfan34, Olson is not the issue here. Period.
December 19th, 2011 at 12:17 pm
Scotty,
Kind of off topic, but I loved that sack. It was picture perfect. My son is playing HS football and I called him into the room from another part of the house to see that hit as far as technique is concerned. The NFL should show every incoming player that hit as an example of what they mean as a great tackle, not leading with the helmet.
December 19th, 2011 at 12:27 pm
mark2001
Could you PLEASE get over the draft vs FA thing!?!?!?!?!
So sick of this argument:
The Glazers are going to build through the draft, like they did before and like ALL consistently winning franchises do, then when they feel the time is right, they will bring in some free agents.
WHAT THE HELL IS SO AHRD TO UNDERSTADN ABOUT THIS?
Every single day someone is bitching and complaining about drafting vs free agents….
GET OVER IT.
December 19th, 2011 at 12:28 pm
Sorry, had to vent a little
December 19th, 2011 at 12:36 pm
I honestly think the problem is raheems defensive playcalling. I think raheem tries to many different coverages and it just ends up killing us. Also the mentality is different from montes defense, and the biggest difference is under monte players had a specific assignment and as long as everyone did there own job they won! If raheem went back to cover 3, 8 men in the box monte used to run we would be fine. But raheem continues to run “tampa 2.1” and it SUCKS!!
December 19th, 2011 at 12:36 pm
Glazers havent built anything except a total disaster.
December 19th, 2011 at 12:49 pm
Let’s say you hit on your first 3 picks every single year and get 3 starters. Keep in mind nobody EVER hits this well, but just for the sake of argument let’s say we do.
By my count, we need at least the following positions to get new starters: CB,CB,LB,LB,S,RT,LG,C,RB,WR,TE. That’s 11 starting positions. If we fill 3 a year with perfect drafting that is FOUR MORE YEARS.
We just have to supplement with free agents at this point. We are not hitting well enough on the draft to manage otherwise.
December 19th, 2011 at 1:00 pm
That’s Ok Dave,
Just keep buying your tickets and dream that Dom will draft better than 30 other teams every year and we will win a championship, while also having the best coaching.
I expect Santa will place a million dollars under your tree this christmas, but I guess this is the time for miracles.
December 19th, 2011 at 1:25 pm
I don’t know if anyone has said this…
But maybe they want Raheem Fired ?
Everyone thinks he’s just a great guy..but is he ?
December 19th, 2011 at 2:09 pm
Laron. F’ing. Landry.
December 19th, 2011 at 6:38 pm
Olson hand picked him.. Well there’s the problem.
December 19th, 2011 at 7:26 pm
That is a very well presented argument.
Presented like that, I have to say I agree. Personally, I think we’re ready for at least 3 good free agents THIS OFFSEASON…and I’m a big supporter of the draft method.
December 19th, 2011 at 9:15 pm
@Dave
Are you kidding me?!?! This team is getting worse and worse each week! How has this team possibly given you ANY confidence or hope going into next year with the same people in charge?
Raheem hasn’t done anything to deserve to keep his job. Neither had Dom…the person who put together this pathetic roster.
Wake up, put the kool aid down, and smell the coffee. Our young guys are playing like crap. Outside of Clayborn and Mike Will maybe, our draft picks are not making a real impact. This team shows no heart, never comes out ready to play. After they got raped by the Jaguars 2 weeks ago, I knew something had to change.
Your boy Dominick is overrated….sorry man! He’s not that great. He makes so many bad decisions like giving like Clayton and Black huge paydays. Also….Kregg Lumpkin???
Also, this no Free agency philosophy is bulls&!$. How do you expect this team to go anywhere with no veterans or proven players and just MORE rookies into the starting lineup?? A good player is a good player. And theres better guys in free agency than half the crap we currently have on the roster.
Younger, younger, more undisciplined, more immaturity led by a clueless players coach. Inexperience led by inexperience. That’s such a recipe for a success.
Sorry, times up. Year 3…..we’re even worse than we were in ’09. I don’t know about you…..but I want to have fun again as a Bucs fan and not be the joke if the league.