Patience
December 14th, 2011
Bucs rock star general manager Mark Dominik is embroiled in a clash of cultures with the fantasy football crowd.
As Joe wrote earlier this week, he has never, ever, seen the Bucs fanbase this united since Chucky hoisted the Vince Lombardi Trophy aloft in victory.
The problem is, the fanbase is seemingly united almost to a disturbing level in donating funds to embattled Bucs coach Raheem Morris for a one-way bus ticket out of town for Christmas.
Never has Joe heard a fanbase howl in unison, or write angrily on this very site, that if Morris returns as Bucs coach next year, given the tailspin that has crashed the team to Earth, said fans will not step foot into the stadium on Dale Mabry Highway, nor buy tickets.
It’s brutal out there, folks.
But just because Morris may be jettisoned by Team Glazer, that doesn’t mean Team Glazer nor Bucs rock star general manager Mark Dominik are throwing the towel in on their philosophy of building through the draft, so Woody Cummings writes in a Bucs TBO Q&A.
Q: We can put some of the blame on our coach and his staff not getting the players to play at a higher level. But I think the real blame is our owners who has show no commitment in building a winning team like they did in the pass. Not many coaches can win very many games with the level of talent on our team. The sad thing is it will take years to build this team.
Chris Pearson, Tampa
A: You’re right about one thing. It usually does take several years to build a winner the way the Bucs are going about it. I disagree about the owners, though. When the Glazers took over this team they rebuilt it the same way they are building it now – through the draft. When that team was ready to win they signed a couple of notable free agents and traded for a player or two and won a Super Bowl. My guess is they’ll do the same as soon as this team is ready to win. It’s just not there yet. In a year or two, maybe, but not now.
– Woody Cummings
The concept of building through the draft is one Joe applauds. The sad thing is, we live in a fantasy football/Madden/instant-gratification culture. This mentality of fire everyone, throw everyone in jail, castrate everyone — NOW! — goes against the very grain of building through the draft.
It’s a clash of cultures, sort of like domestic beer-guzzling Joe at a polo match with the snotty wine crowd talking about their portfolios and their trips to the south of France.
The analogy is not unlike the quesiton of whether one should slow-cook and smoke ribs in the backyard that takes all weekend, or run to the nearest rib shack and be done with it?
At this point, the piece of meat being roasted over open coals is the hide of Morris by the Bucs populace.
December 14th, 2011 at 9:21 am
Never has Joe heard a fanbase howl in unison, or write angrily on this very site,
===================
Thomas and the same people who post 67 times a day may seem like a lot of people
December 14th, 2011 at 9:22 am
“My guess is they’ll do the same as soon as this team is ready to win.”
They may not be ready to win the SB, but at least be consistant & competitive, we have the talent to at least do that, but apparently not the coaching.
December 14th, 2011 at 9:24 am
I like Jeff Fisher.
December 14th, 2011 at 9:34 am
this constant nonsense of building through the draft is stupid no good team builds EXCLUsively through the draft like the BUCs are trying to do, NE has Welker was a free agent ,every good team has free agents maybe not like Philadelphia but all good teams sign some veterans to help build the draft prospects,
December 14th, 2011 at 9:38 am
@mindyr
Actually Welker was traded from Miami.
December 14th, 2011 at 9:39 am
Every team builds through the draft you blind squirrels. The draft is mandatory and every year you get 7 picks (give or take).
Every team will be predominantly made up of its draft picks.
Drafting well is important, developing draft picks is important. Sometimes draft picks dont pan out. Then you have options: wait or supplement with expensive known or inexpensive unknown player.
Some teams acquire both to create; gasp, competition.
This org has used this fraudulent build through the draft errr budget excuse to not participate in supplementing the roster with talent.
Why was lumpy retained over caddy?
Why was ruud released and not paid to mentor foster for a year or two? $
Why is rah rah cliche morris coach? $
Why did we not add J Joseph or Stephen Tulloch or another defensive vet leader? Talent? No. $= yes.
December 14th, 2011 at 9:39 am
Morris will stay. Staff changes will (and need to) take place.
I want Spagnola as DC (should he get fired from St Louis, as expected).
December 14th, 2011 at 9:42 am
“Why was lumpy retained over caddy?
Why was ruud released and not paid to mentor foster for a year or two? $
Why did we not add J Joseph or Stephen Tulloch or another defensive vet leader? Talent? No. $= yes.”
You’re right, but that doesn’t mean Morris should take the fall for what was given to him. Which is why I think he will stay.
December 14th, 2011 at 9:48 am
This is going to be Great. I am going to have the Whole stadium to myself. I’m sure they still won’t let me on the ship though.
December 14th, 2011 at 9:49 am
Ok fine, building throught the draft does take time, Im good with that. But morris has ran this team like a circus since the day he got here. Fired the oc 1 week before the start of the season, fired the dc in week 10 of his first season, people he hand picked I might add. Mistake after mistake after mistake. He cliched his way into a high paying job, good for him but it was at the cost of the fans. Myself, as a Tampa native and life long Bucs fan am embarrassed to support a team with with Morris as its coach. Nice guy but not enough experience who acts like a a$$ clown. And believe me, I have suffered through the toughest of Buc times. Gruden had his shortcomings but he sure as hell knew how to coach and get the most from what he had to work with.
December 14th, 2011 at 9:51 am
Three years of being patient is long enough. I would consider being patient a year longer if this team was showing signs of improvement. However, we have not improved. I would actually argue that we are worse than year one of this regime. Time to make changes is right f*cking now!!!
December 14th, 2011 at 9:51 am
Mr. Cummings failed to mention that a certain coach was brought in to lead the team, demand accountability, and perfect execution.
When those particular players were drafted the team had a base of veterans to lead and demand the same.
December 14th, 2011 at 9:59 am
Rhenry and Tommy you are absolutely correct.
December 14th, 2011 at 10:05 am
We have way too many holes for this philosophy, and Dom’s drafting is just not good enough for it. I think his drafting has been good, but to build through the draft you need to be nailing the picks better than we are.
It would be inexcusable to go another offseason without filling some holes in free agency. If that’s what Dom wants then he should be shown the door along with Morris.
December 14th, 2011 at 10:06 am
Our Bucs are in a real pickle here and coach Rah will probably take the blunt of it.. but it won’t change much once/if he leaves! We may be lacking leadership, and some of that definitely comes from the head coach, but I’m looking at a team full of college players playing in the NFL – you can’t have that! And behind them are college 1a players along with scrap-heap pickups that equates to ZERO depth and even less leadership! Ownership is cheap and we really need to come to the realization that even if there is a change in culture and monetary contribution, it’s going to be another 2 years minimum before we have a team that is close to championship caliber.
December 14th, 2011 at 10:08 am
It all goes back to the way they are losing and I’m not just talking about point differential. If this team was playing hard and still losing I’d have no problem because they did overachieve last year. This team quits every time they are faced with adverse conditions though and that is the Head Coaches direct responsibility. The Jaguar’s game was the worst case of throwing in the towel I’ve ever seen from a current Bucs team. Not every coach is a good motivator, but every good coach is a great motivator.
December 14th, 2011 at 10:10 am
If this is the way we want to build then we should have signed some notable free agents this last off-season, we were 10-6 for gods sake if that’s not ready to make a leap than what is. Therefore, if anyone should be fired it should be Dominik for not making the moves in FA.
I’m not asking for anyone’s head or to be jettisoned other than Olsen but I will say even though I may be the only one that may believe so but I think Morris deserves one more year.
December 14th, 2011 at 10:20 am
This team has the talent to at least be a .500 ball club. (Especially on offense) Most of us had our sights on 8-8 and the team making strides to improve on defense. The problem is and I think most would agree; is this team has taken 10 steps backwards and honestly most of this comes from the head coach. When a team plays as hard as they can and they lose; it’s about lack of talent. When a team makes stupid penalties, runs poor routes, loafs around, has discipline problems and gives up when the game gets tough; that’s coaching and not lack of talent.
December 14th, 2011 at 10:21 am
Joe, I don’t want to fire everyone – just Raheem!
December 14th, 2011 at 10:22 am
“But just because Morris may be jettisoned by Team Glazer, that doesn’t mean Team Glazer nor Bucs rock star general manager Mark Dominik are throwing the towel in on their philosophy of building through the draft, so Woody Cummings writes in a Bucs blog”
That statement right there is the reason that all of you who want a high profile coach like Fisher or Cowher is just dreaming. Morris will be gone, but you’re going to get more of the same. There is already a room full of pointey-headed guys at One Buc with green eye shades busy at work figuring out how to get around the 2013 CBA minimum salary cap rule!
December 14th, 2011 at 10:28 am
As long as one of these guys can stick a size 12 shoe up someone’s A$$ then I have no problem letting Morris hit the trail. Dungy was a nice guy, but he had Kiffin, Marinelli, & Mike Tomlin to light a huge fire.
December 14th, 2011 at 10:34 am
“When that team was ready to win they signed a couple of notable free agents and traded for a player or two and won a Super Bowl.”
Yeah, those players happened to be some of the best players at their respective positions in the league. Simeon Rice, Keyshawn Johnson, Keenan Mccardell, etc….’
I just dont see the bucs brass investing in free agents like that any more. They did make a huge difference, even friggen Michael Pittman. Instead, we trade for that thug/lous Kellen Winslow, a punter, and pick apart other teams practice squads. Whoopty dooooo…..how effing exciting.
December 14th, 2011 at 10:36 am
Buddhaboy:
Meshawn was acquired in a trade.
December 14th, 2011 at 10:46 am
Patience is for Guns & Roses fans!
December 14th, 2011 at 10:52 am
We need to spend on Free Agency. We are a slow team on the edges, CB/RB
(Slow with CB in regards to talent/age/level headedness)
(Slow at WR- Not a burner on the Roster)
Why is it that we claim to be trying to be like the “Steelers” and “Packers” and buld through the draft? Look at their WR’s: Steelers- got speed everywhere at WR, Packers- might be the most complete assembly of WR/TE in the game.
We drafted WR’s, in the 2nd and 4th rounds. How bout we get a play maker at WR in FA?
Then, make our first 3 picks CB, and create a competition?
Maybe sign an LB in FA?
December 14th, 2011 at 11:00 am
oh, i get it joe. Thanks for correcting me, but the fact of the matter is, management has said that they will acquire certain pieces when they feel they are ready to compete for a championship. Dont you (Joe) think that is a little bait (arbitrary) for the fans to hold on to. I will believe it when i see it. I love my team, but i find myself more enterntained by Bear Grylls eating coyote poop more than the disasterous weekly buc’s game. Keep up the good work Joe, i sit in my little cubicle in niceville florida, not much goin on round here, except for military jets flying overhead bombing the practice fields setting off car alarms and all the dogs in the city in unison.
December 14th, 2011 at 11:05 am
Joe, what has happened is the same as if you took new enlistees and didn’t give them boot camp or advanced training and sent them into battle. They don’t know how to work as a team/unit. Rah is the new CPT in the same way except he is trying to do the platoon the same time.
He has to have a DC and I, for at least one, want to see what will happen with an off season. I want ot see the DL of the two DE we picked up this year and the Two DT, we picked up last year having an off season together. The LBs, including the Roolie and maybe not the other two would work with them. I want to Josh healthy again, I think he has been hurt all year, and an OL that is a lot better than what they have shown this year, with a fast receiver or two and, if Winslow is still around, kick his a** into the team.
ALmost all of these guys are good, they just, for the most part, never had boot camp. But, Rah must be brutal in getting rid of the malingerers and malcontents starting this week and I don’t care who they are, you are always better without them.
Lastly, he must practice “Ignorance can be corrected, stupidity is forever” Cut the stupid ones this week.
Your thoughts?
December 14th, 2011 at 11:13 am
OB:
Makes sense on face value but when you pull back the onion skin it doesn’t add up.
This team was younger last year and won 10 games. Yeah, the schedule was weak. But the weak teams the Bucs beat last year, this year the Bucs are getting chain-whipped.
For the first time in maybe two years, the Bucs had a fast start last week — and then got blown out of the stadium by a garbage team. Same mistakes happen game after game, the team is horribly digressing.
Yes, if Morris comes back there has to be a mandate from above at One Buc Palace that he must have a defensive coordinator. Again, you won’t get a decent one unless Morris’ contract is extended and fans just might burn One Buc Palace down if that happens.
Joe is sincere in writing this, never ever has he seen Bucs fans almost united as one in their outrage/disgust at Morris. It may be the worst Joe has experienced at one coach in any market he has lived in.
December 14th, 2011 at 11:15 am
i’m all for building through the draft, but for that to work those players need to be developed and they need to improve from year to year. we were force fed the notion that this regime was all about smashmouth physical football, it’s anything but.
December 14th, 2011 at 11:28 am
Josh has had one winning season in his 6 years (college + pro). Josh is the problem! Losers lose.
December 14th, 2011 at 11:31 am
The following are some suggested changes for next year:
1. Need a legit weakside linebacker and keep Geno Hayes for special teams and depth.
2. Drop Quincy Black. He has not progressed. Move Mason Foster to OLB and bring in a veteran MLB with game calling experience.
3. Add a speedy WR that can stretch the field (bring in DeSean Jackson). Freeman can throw it deep to him or he will at least clear some space for Williams and Benn.
4. Replace Raheem Morris with a proven head coach (Fisher would be my preference).
5. Bring in a veteran QB to back up Freeman and help him develop (Matt Hasselbeck, since it looks like Jake Locker is ready to take over in Tennessee).
6. Add Cornerbacks through draft and free agency. Aqib may be suspended or jailed. Ronde may retire. Biggers is not the answer. Myron Lewis hasn’t earned playing time and we know Mack is a situational guy and Gaitor and Black are unproven.
7. Drop Lumpkin and bring in a true change of pace guy to compliment Blount. Focus efforts in the offseason on improving Blount’s ability to protect Freeman on 3rd downs and catch passes out of the backfield. He is a legit weapon.
There are probably more changes that you guys can think of but those are what immediately come to mind for me.
December 14th, 2011 at 11:34 am
But I like Polo… I’m tired of Joe beating up on Polo…I can agree with some of your comments( I hate France too) but talking shots at wine and Polo is over the top. Unacceptable Joe. Unacceptable.
December 14th, 2011 at 12:10 pm
But if you put ribs in the smoker without any meat on them – doesn’t turn out too good.
Likewise if you bring a guy in to smoke the ribs whose only previous experience is setting the table – your ribs, like the bucs, are gonna suck.
And no amount of sauce will save em.
December 14th, 2011 at 12:11 pm
Joe’s humbled that Merlot Joe Maddon reads Joe. 🙂
December 14th, 2011 at 12:35 pm
Joe, I love your site and I love your perspective, but I need to disagree on two points here. I think all Buccaneers fans recognize that, in the NFL, good teams typically build through the NFL draft. That requires smart draft picks, as the Bucs did so well in the mid/late 90s (Brooks, Sapp, Alstott, Lynch, Barber, Dunn, Culpepper, Nickerson, Kelly, etc.). However, NFL history, and Buccaneers’ history in particular, demonstrate that good teams morph into championship teams with smart free agent acquisitions/trades that supplement the good drafts.
Almost everyone wants to cite counterexamples, such as the Redskins in the Snyder era and the current Eagles team. But those are extreme examples in which the teams PRIMARILY relied on free agency. Most fans do not want the Buccaneers to operate in that extreme way.
First, we want better drafts or better coaching. Some people assume that Dominik has done extremely well in recent drafts. I disagree. But if you assume that the drafts were above average, then what we have seen this season is a terrible waste of talent.
I have played football my entire life and I have seen a variety of coaches and a variety of coaching ability in those coaches. And what I worry about is that, as I have seen firsthand, when you take a very talented player, and expose him to bad coaching for an extended period of time, that player may be permanently affected by the bad coaching/bad habits that he picks up over time, even after a better coach has taken over the team. I worry that bad coaches (Morris/Olsen) could irreparably stunt the growth of Buccaneers players who WE THINK are very talented (Freeman). So if we assume that Dominik has done well in recent drafts, then I believe the risk of stunting our talented players’ growth is too great to allow Morris and Olsen to lay their fingerprints on this team for another year.
Second, we want SUPPLEMENTAL free agent acquisitions/trades. Again, we do not want to completely remake our team through free agency. But why did Dominik not even attempt to grab Joseph, Sproles, or Barnett, or other good players who play positions in which the Bucs have very limited talent?
That brings me to my other point of disagreement. Yes, the Glazers did a great job once upon a time spending on supplemental talent, especially the year of and the years before Super Bowl 37 (Gruden, Keyshawn, Jurevicius, McCardell, Pittman, Christy, Lomas Brown, etc.). But that was before the Glazers’ acquisition of the Manchester United. We have seen little since then from the Glazers that demonstrates the Glazer family’s commitment to the Bucs success. Also, the smart spending occurred when Malcolm Glazer ran the show. Though we know very little, all indications point to a lack of involvement by Malcolm due to his poor health (nothing but well wishes to Malcolm and the Glazer family) and increased involvement by Bryan. How do we know that Bryan cares more about success than monetary savings?
Sorry for the long post. Thanks Joe!
December 14th, 2011 at 12:56 pm
Im pretty over the “Rock Star GM ” thing on this web site. What has Mark done: Signed Derrick Ward, Byron Leftwich, K Mike Nugent, and the dude with bad knees from Buffalo who never panned out. Did not move up to take Suh. Did not re-sign Ruud. Traded for Winslow and ATL got Gonzalez for less. Come on! Al least he was spot on with that punter!! We hired 2 DL coaches when we should have made a play to get Rod Marinelli..
Chucky was winning with guys Dominik Cut (Brooks, Garcia, Hilliard,et al) and the players were never picked up by ANYONE!
War Rich Bisaccia…. USF missed the boat on that one too!
December 14th, 2011 at 1:23 pm
IMISSCHUCKY:
Now stop right there.
Explain in detail how exactly was Dominik supposed to acquire Detroit’s pick?
That’s like saying Rachel Watson should sleep with Joe every night. Wishful thinking but also delusional.
If you are going to blast Dominik for that, why not also blast Chucky for not trading up to acquire Calvin Johnson? Same logic (or lack, thereof) applies.
December 14th, 2011 at 1:24 pm
aep1717:
Will break this down when Joe gets a chance. Busy this afternoon. Well done thus far.
December 14th, 2011 at 2:09 pm
I’m so sick of this ‘building thru the draft’ philosophy dom has been throwing in our face ever since he took. Everybody builds ‘thru the draft’!! Every team gets what they think is a talented group of players from their draft picks. What the hell is so special about the “rock star’s” philosophy?
You want to know the meaning of “building thru the draft” according to Dom? Doing NOTHING OTHER than the draft, throwing more rookies into the starting lineup, making our roster younger, less competitive, and less experienced.
It’s going to be the same misery again next year. UNLESS he changes his ways as a GM. We all know he’s operated for 3 years now! Hell…..if we miss the playoffs AGAIN next year, we’ll hear the same excuses again. “we’re a young team”, “give it time”, “it takes a while”, etc.. Sorry, Doms stupid plan SUCKS when u see the way other teams have turned it around. We’re not even close to the 2008 team…..the team we dismantled for this. I agree….we needed an overhaul…but look where we are now.
December 14th, 2011 at 2:46 pm
I can’t believe more of the media hasn’t attacted the right guy..
Non Star Mark Dominic. Let’s review his moves:
Released some of the most treasured players to have ever worn a Bucs uniform. Brooks was inexcusable
Signed to extensions: Clayton and Black
Brought in terrible FA’s: see Ward
Let our established players go again without a true replacement: see Ruud, Caddy
Ignored the biggest FA period in the history of the NFL: inexcusable.
I’ve heard we can’t fire Raheem now because there’s not a coach on the staff that can be the interim head coach till end if year. And we have this staff coaching our rookies and young players. I see this as a major problem. I’m sure Dominic had a say in who was hired. The Owners made a huge mistake by extending Dominic’s contract but I say they fire the whole lot of them and start over. I’ve also heard no established coach is going to work under Dominic. Another red flag. This is a disaster and the Glazers need to take ownership (no pun intended)of it and get it fixed now.
December 14th, 2011 at 3:36 pm
Look at you showing off your lack of knowledge again. Teams have an option of passing on each pick, dweeb…therefore it is not mandatory. They only have to let time run out.
December 14th, 2011 at 3:37 pm
btw, good post, Joe.
December 14th, 2011 at 3:45 pm
Pete:
Or, teams can trade picks for players. Hello, Redskins, Raiders.
December 14th, 2011 at 4:22 pm
How many teams have just passed on making a selection in the draft?
I think a couple have blown it, and let time expire, but nobody does it intentionally.
And trading draft picks is allowed.
Remember Keshawn Johnson? Remember two number ones and two number two’s for Jon Gruden? When they cared who coached their team?
I think that was all done by these same owners currently spouting this nonsense.
Contrary to polular belief in the sheep community, Mark Dominik did not invent the NFL Draft. And he isnt that good in participating in it.
December 14th, 2011 at 4:59 pm
The NFL draft is a thing all 32 teams MUST participate in! Dom’s just doing what he has to do basically.
If we don’t sign any free agents this offseason, you can already forget about the playoffs next year. Read my post above. This team can’t keep getting younger, worse, and more inexperienced ESPECIALLY under Raheem Morris. Can’t keep adding more rookies to a starting lineup that’s already young enough, especially when they’re not even going in the right direction to begin with.
December 14th, 2011 at 5:38 pm
Trade deadline has passed, they may extend it next year, especially since all the QB injuries this season.