Aqib Talib Not Yet Elite
September 12th, 2011
Before Joe gets rolling, let him be clear: Aqib Talib is a good cornerback.
Having typed that, Aqib Talib is not yet a Pro Bowl cornerback and is not an elite cornerback.
Since last year, Bucs fans have mocked E.J. Biggers, blaming him for a loss to the Lions because, so these fans claimed, Biggers was horrible and if only the Bucs had Talib on the field (he was injured) the game would have been different.
After the debacle of pass defense displayed by the secondary yesterday, Talib only wished he had as good of a game as Biggers did last year against the Lions.
There is no other way to put it. Talib got roasted by Calvin Johnson Sunday. Talib was owned. So much so the way Johnson spoke with eye-RAH! Kaufman of the Tampa Tribune, it seemed he felt sorry for Talib.
The stat sheet, however, spoke loudly as Johnson caught six passes for 88 yards, including two touchdowns.
“We made plays on him (Talib),” said Johnson, who caught 10 passes in Tampa last year during an overtime win as an injured Talib watched from the sidelines. “I didn’t have any problems. There was a lot of talk. We don’t talk back … we just do what we do.”
Does Talib have the talent to be an elite corner? It seems he does. But when presented with chances to make big plays, he comes up empty and Joe is not talking about fluke plays like his pick six from a deflected pass. Joe’s talking about guarding his man.
The Pittsburgh game is still vivid in Joe’s mind where Talib totally whiffed on two picks, one of which bounced off his hands for a Pittsburgh touchdown.
Yesterday, Talib seemed to have good position on Johnson in the second quarter along the right sideline. But Talib got greedy and went for a pick. He missed but Johnson didn’t and it was six points for the Lions. Had Talib just stayed on his man, he at least would have had a pass defend.
Yes, Talib is a good cornerback. But yesterday reminded all Bucs fans that while Talib is a talented player, he is hardly elite.
September 12th, 2011 at 8:09 am
Bingo! Nailed it.
September 12th, 2011 at 8:09 am
He will never be a shutdown corner….. He is more deangelo hall/Asante Samuel in that he will be a corner who takes risks and will get you 5+ picks a season.
September 12th, 2011 at 8:11 am
I couldn’t agree more. At his best, I’ve thought he was a very good corner…at his best. He gets burned too often and doesn’t have recover speed. If a WR gets by him, it’s all over – period. That said, he wasn’t the reason we lost.
September 12th, 2011 at 8:16 am
I agree with you…with that said we also need to cut the entire D some slack since they were on the field most of the game.
September 12th, 2011 at 8:25 am
lol Asante Samuels is shut down. Look at what he did last year. Played better than Nnamdi for sure.
September 12th, 2011 at 8:31 am
Fluke play? LOL. That “fluke play” occurred because of Talib’s focus and concentration. He definitely is not a pro bowler at this point but that wasn’t a fluke play.
September 12th, 2011 at 8:34 am
At the same time I expected to see some rust after no action for 8 or 9 months
September 12th, 2011 at 8:36 am
I watched the game in Port Charlotte……. wasted trip. I saw a defense that did decent against the run and decent against the pass but was on the field too long and ended up giving up alot of yards through the air. Everyone in the secondary needed to play better, BUT most of the passes were taking advantage of the Buc LBs (not just Foster, all of them). Alot of 5-15 yard pass plays from slot to slot – right where the LBs usually cover.
On offense I saw nothing.
I saw an O-Line that could not block for the run.
I saw WRs not getting open.
I saw Freeman look hesitant and reluctant to throw.
They got work to do.
September 12th, 2011 at 8:40 am
Calvin Johnson is a FREAK by size, speed and height. Randy Moss in his prime is tha only receiver comparable in terms of height, speed, and playmaking ability and he owned all DB’s whom was assigned 2 cover him.
@ Joe
U should be Baker Acted if u think Biggers did better than Talib.
September 12th, 2011 at 8:42 am
he played against megatron, held him to 88 yard compared to biggers letting him catch 10 passes for 157 yards.
September 12th, 2011 at 8:55 am
Talib got beat several times. But Joe should address the fact that the safety play was the biggest problem yesterday. Jones was so out of position on many of the big plays that I thought Sabby somehow taped up Jones in the locker room and put on his uniform. The play where you say Talib “got greedy” Talib had full liberty to go after the ball because Jones was supposed to be over top to make the hit…..he wasn’t. He was so out of position that he was practically trailing Talib. When a corner has safety help, he plays the ball the safety plays the man; Talib was good there. The other…TD great catch.
Talib didn’t get the preseason work he needed and still came out and performed well. He got a pick 6.
Here’s the issues in my opinion. Sacks: 0. Hits on QB: 0. Blount: 5 carries. Safeties: Confused.
There’s a LOT to fix. Talib, in my opinion is the least they have to worry about.
September 12th, 2011 at 9:00 am
Talib has a lot of problems, but one them isn’t playing CB. Despite his obvious miscues with CJ, He is hands down our best CB, and better than most in the league. This was Megatron, he get his against everybody – even when the Lions lose, he gets his. As for CB miscues, I saw Asomugha get beat yesterday and was called for PI at the goal line. It happens!
September 12th, 2011 at 9:06 am
Lmao- no matter how bad he plays, the apologist will cry Talib is great! It’s thug love! He got beat like a drum yesterday! The whole secondary got whipped up on, with the exception of Barber- who played well!
Black proved that he not only is worthless at stopping the run, he’s even worse and pass coverage.
Whoever said our secondary was a team Strenght(ahem!) was a snake oil salesman. Two seasons ago, we were giving up tons of long TDs. That’s allwe worried about. Last year, we played a B.S. 3-3-5 defense, to add an extra defensive back. That sorta covered up the secondaries weaknesses.
Yesterday, we ran a standard 4-3-4 defense, and had trouble covering anyone.
In a great young team, We have three major weaknesses. O-line, LBers, abd secondary. They have been weaknesses for some time, so other teams know how to exploit them. This shoulda been addressed this off season. But instead, we keep preaching” build only thru the Draft”. It doesn’t look like it’s working, and I’ve never seen it work for anyone else.
Back to the drawing board.
September 12th, 2011 at 9:35 am
@ Capt.Tim
Barber played well…really? Covering #3 Wr’s and missing tackles. Much as I love Ronde, let’s call a spade a spade, he never covered #1 WR’s full-time, even when Donnie Abraham and Brian Kelly was here. Talib covers # 1’s all season.
Back on topic, most of tha yards came off dink and dunk checkdowns on short passes. If anything, Strong Safety is one of our biggest weaknesses. Ur starting 2 sound like Thomas with ur comments. State FACTS, not FICTION. U act like none of tha past Bucs greats didn’t get dominated. That includes, Sapp, Brooks, Lynch, along with Barber in his prime. Rome wasn’t built in a day, neither will this team be so deal with it or root 4 tha CFL.
P.S. Spell check is ur friend, play with it
September 12th, 2011 at 9:36 am
I wonder if Bucs fans will try to run Talib out of town like they tried with Ruud.
September 12th, 2011 at 9:52 am
Ok, admittedly…Talib is not a “shutdown corner”. Thats fine. In the NFL there are maybe 2-3 of those at any given time. You dont need a shutdown corner or even an elite corner to be a good defense. To be honest I wasnt all that disappointed with Talib’s play. For the most part, he was in position to make a play on the ball against Calvin. NO ONE…and I mean no one…can out jump Megatron….so the fact that most of Calvin’s catches against Talib were ones in which he had to sky for the ball. To be honest…if Revis were covering him..the only ball Megatron may not have caught was the first touchdown in which aqib nearly tipped it away. Talib was injured…but even if he were healthy…Megatron still would get his jumpballs. Geno Hayes and Quincy Black were extremely dissappointing. The lack of outside contain on stretch runs plays will kill this defense if something doesnt get fixed very very quickly.
September 12th, 2011 at 9:54 am
Dude, the secondary played well. The linebackers is where we failed. They were hitting us underneath all day long. There were only two passes completed on the secondary past 20 yards. The other two were on Foster and Black. Everything else was within 15 yards. MOst within 10.
September 12th, 2011 at 10:09 am
IMHO- I realize it’s hard for you to hear, as Talib is probably yer idol, but he isn’t very good. I know your standing there, hat turned backwards, pants down to your knees, boxers showing, plaing “grand theft Auto”- and thinking Talib is the man. Sorry, but if you actually watched that embarrassment, you wouldn’t be saying that. Plus, there is a stay for “thrown at” and” Passes defended”. Sort of shows why Ronde is a legend, and nobody has voted your boy into any proBowls. You’d think he could have defended a couple of those passes, huh?
Johnson is a very good NFL WR. There are a lot of those. We need a CB who can defend them. I mentioned this during the offseason, only to gave the teen brigade sing Aqibs praises, and point out his” Eliteness”
Er, WRONG
September 12th, 2011 at 10:33 am
Capt tim, learn what your talking about. First off that touchdown wasent even CLOSE to a fluke, that was pure concentration. You guys think Ej biggers did good? What 10 catches for 160 yards? Compared to 88 yards and 2 TDs, Aqib was playing the UNDER route and Sean jones was supposed to watch Calvin on top. Sean jones got scored on not Aqib. The 2nd touchdown yes a jump
Ball to 6″5 freak athlete megatron, show me a corner who can out jump him. Revis is 5″10, no chance. You guys bash Aqib and of he wasent in the game take off 7 points and add another TD and 80 yards for Calvin. Aqib Hasent played in 9 months. I think he did a DAMN good
Job. Allowed legitly 1 touchdown but also scored a touchdown. Like Raheem said take away the 1 TD that Sean jones messed up on and Aqib did almost as good as he could have unless he completely shut him down. Aqib is our bright spot on defence and one of the few players who opposing offences gameplan against. If anything Joe and all these Aqib bashers(get real) start bashing our LB”s for all these dump off passes and screen passes.
September 12th, 2011 at 10:38 am
“Talib only wished he had as good of a game as Biggers did last year against the Lions”
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
That is all. Thanks for the Laugh Joe
September 12th, 2011 at 10:39 am
@Capt Tim
WOW! Great way 2 profile me, again spell check is ur friend, play with it. It’s STAT not STAY. LMAO it’s hard 4 u 2 grasp reality cuz ur not livin in it. Talk 2 me when u can bring up STATS(not stay), FACTS and LOGIC. Ur lips is zipped cuz ur talkin out ur @$$. Ronde had Hall-of-Famers 4 help in front and back of him, what about Talib?
P.S. Fans are 1/3 of tha Pro Bowl voting process, along with coaches and players. More than anything its a popularity contest, as it has unlimited voting online.
September 12th, 2011 at 10:44 am
Watching the game yesterday, as bad as the defense played and pretty much let detroit do what they wanted, it was the defense who keep the team in the first half, what detroit had over three hundred yards of offense, had the ball for over 23 minutes, almost 15 first downs, and only had 20 points to show for the effort. THe story yesterday was that there was no offense, the offense didnt score a touchdown till 2 minutes left in the game, you take talibs lucky turnover and a good kick return, its 24-3 at halftime, and were calling this game a blowout.
September 12th, 2011 at 11:51 am
Uh oh Joe, we got the “gay for Talib” club upset again!!
GET OVER IT- he is not an elite CB, and gave up at least 7 passes. And 2 TD.
Talib was not the only problem yesterday, but he was absolutely a big problem. When your Top CB gets absolutely gets owned by a WR- you got problems. And check the ” pass attempts defended stat. Biggers defended more attempts than Aqib. You three or four Guys need to get over your delusions about Talib. He’s got talent, but not great talent. And he’s selfish, he gives up TDs against the team, while trying to get Interceptions and personal stats for himself. He’s all about him, as his behavior off the field reflects. He has alot of changes to make to have a chance at ” great” , so far, he hasn’t improved.
September 12th, 2011 at 12:08 pm
joe for the record the two touchdowns are not something talib can improve on.
the one was sean jones NOT helping over the top. Sean bit on the pump fake and should have been there either to deflect or knock Calvin Johnson out of bounds before he could get his feet in. One thing the bucs D has always been huge on is trusting the other players to do their jobs so that you can excell at yours. he trusted sean jones to be in position, and even got a hand on the ball to deflect it a bit.
the second touchdown, talib just cannot grow taller at this point… i feel he was in good position but as they say there is no defense for a perfectly thrown ball.
September 12th, 2011 at 12:13 pm
take out the catch where sean jones screwed up and Calvin Johnson had 5 catches for 52 yards. MUCH better than when biggers covered him and got 10 cathces 152 yards.
September 12th, 2011 at 12:16 pm
@Johnnie – You summed that up pretty well. You might want to throw in, LB play was not so pretty either. The QB hits can mostly be attributed to the short 2-3 step drops all day…it’s hard to make QB hits when they constanty do that. But your take is pretty much right on.
You Talib was a little rusty as to be expected and didn’t play his best game, but the 4th and 2 touchdown was not his fault. Still, with a rusty, not in game shape Talib, there is no way you could argue that we defended him better last year. Talib was the least of our problems yesterday.
September 12th, 2011 at 12:51 pm
Dan- good points
Capt.Tim – you’re just silly dude…Talib has 7 INT’s and 2 TD’s in his last 12 games. He may not be elite yet, but he’s on his way. And last year he did not get torched nearly as often, but he is an aggressive CB with an aggressive coach, he’s going to get beat here and there.
He’s not your Asomugha type CB who has 11 INT’s in 9 seasons. He’s Aqib Talib, who is aggressive, takes more chances than you’d like sometimes, but also has 16 INT’s in 3 seasons and 1 game. His 1st two seasons, he got beat with some regularity sometimes, but last year until now, he has been on the rise to elite. Asante Samuels still gets beat as well, but that’s just what happens when you play aggressive and go for INT’s. His stats to start off his 1st three years are comparable to all the best corners still in the league right now to start off their careers, if not better.
He’s only going to get better and has not been torched with as much regularity as he did his 1st two seasons. His lack of top-line speed and off the field troubles are his biggest issues, not his on the field play as of late.
September 12th, 2011 at 12:54 pm
Calvin Johnson has lost 70% + of the NFL games he has played in. Apparently everyone BUT Talib has figured out how to defend him. I realize painting h as an unstoppable monster makes Talib look better- but it just isn’t so. He’s a WR, And Talib couldnt cover him. Let’s move on.
September 12th, 2011 at 1:00 pm
capt tim what are you talking about minus the one play that was SEAN JONES’s fault for biting on the pump fake. he had 5 catches for 52 yards and a touchdown. (you cant blame aquib for being shorter than him nothing aquib could have done better to defend that one)
September 12th, 2011 at 1:09 pm
Capt.Tim – Calvin Johnson was probably the reason the Lions didn’t lose more games than that. He has been the lone bright spot on that team for years until recently. That’s a horrible stat to prove a point. That’s beyond obsurd. We all know this is the ultimate team game (sans the Colts and Peyton Manning yesterday), and Calvin is not the reason they lost all those games in his career. Again, silly! I really don’t even know what to say right now. That’s just horrible justification to defend your opinion, whether it is the right or wrong one.
September 12th, 2011 at 1:17 pm
raheem morris: the other touchdown wasnt his fault, you have a guy over the top supposed to be there over the top.
September 12th, 2011 at 1:33 pm
Four fingers- I’ve said all along he has some talent. And I get that he was rusty yesterday. Yeah, I get that. Can he be a good starting CB- yes. But he is not good enough to be our shutdown CB, or Franchise CB, like we need. And the worst part is, his off the field problems keep him so pre occupied, that he doesn’t spend the time he needs to improve. So ge remains decent, with a bad habit of giving up TDs that he should have defended. And that is a bad habit- not being ” aggressive”. He got owned yesterday. And contrary to the apologist constant bleating, no, that isn’t the norm. He is gonna make a big play once on awhile, on even great CBs. But that display yesterday just proves that Talib is not fast enough, or skilled enough, to be a top CB. And he has been here 5 years- he’s not a rookie. He should be at the top of his game right now. If you haven’t got in 5 years, then in the NFL, that’s it. There isn’t a 20 year” how to play corner” class.
September 12th, 2011 at 1:48 pm
Until some drafts a 7′ corner back with 4.0 speed, Megatron will remain uncoverable, all Stafford has to do is throw the rock 4 feet above the corner’s head and Johnson has a reception. He is a beast, no one has the combination of size, speed and strength that he possesses, not even Moss in his prime has this guys strength, he might have been faster but no where near the strength that Johnson exhibits.
September 12th, 2011 at 3:04 pm
@Capt Tim, Joe and sorry but the other idiots who think aqib did such a terrible job. please read my post before ^^^ then go listen to the raheem press conference. I posted that at 10am this morning and raheem came out and basically said the same exact thing i typed. aqib had the UNDER route and sean jones have over the TOP if sean jones played that correctly your talking calvin has 5 catches 40 yards and a TD. ill take that ANY day for calvin johnson. that TD was a perfectly thrown ball, put nnamdi or revis on him. same outcome. aqib is 6’1 he stand the best chance compared to a 5’10 revis. Take talib off of the bucs defence and i can GUARANTEE the outcome of the game yesterday would have been twice as bad. Unlike half of the people on the website. Opposing teams, raheem morris and the people who know corners and playing football and understanding zone and positioning. Know how big of a impact 25 is. Give it up all of you bashing on aqib. Blame the terrible play of the LBs.
September 12th, 2011 at 5:18 pm
I love JoeBucsFan for reading about what’s going on with the Bucs. Player interviews, injury reports, illegal phone calls with the coach, cup o’ Joe, slip and fall attorney adds….but I don’t come here for accurate player breakdown and knowledgeable football diagnosis. Just read a few articles above where Joe was impressed with the QB pressure from the D line…which Joe says caused the lines to “switch to two and three step drops”…hilarious!!!!! Talib was outjumped for one TD, Sean Jones allowed another and Talib scored a TD himself. Joe alluded that a FA pickup may have stopped that from happening. Aso got beat pretty well yesterday. Even a desperation grab in the endzone because he was beat by a nobody WR. It happens. Nobody wins every
matchup. Nobody. Capt Tim up here seems to think the Bucs should have put Ronde on Calvin Johnson…that would’ve stopped him. I love Ronde, but that would have been a disaster!
Come to Joe for some funny stories written in 3rd person. But, don’t come here for accurate football diagnosis….or remedy for that matter. lol
September 12th, 2011 at 5:40 pm
Joe — Props to you for letting clowns like this rip you and make no sense.
September 12th, 2011 at 6:39 pm
Raheem on the 30+yard touchdown grab: He was supposed to have help over top, that wasnt his fault.
Aquib is responsible for 5 catches 50somehting yards and one touchdown from Calvin Johnson. stop blaming aquib all of our pass problems yesterday were from poor linebacker and safety play.
where was cody grimm yesterday? one tackle. early in the 1st. and you want to blame aquib? stop it. your being silly- Joe and Capt tim.
September 12th, 2011 at 6:40 pm
if you would like to watch the play, aquib was guarding the comeback route and you can see sean jones bite HARD on the pump fake realize his mistake and try to run back to being deep over calvin… too late.
September 12th, 2011 at 6:52 pm
brisbee — props to you for not recognizing sense.
September 12th, 2011 at 10:13 pm
Brisbee…Joe is a man’s man. He can take disagreements and ribbing…also you’re probably not Joe’s type…so stop jock riding, bro.