THE OPTIMIST: Suh-McCoy Is Like Sanders-Dunn
December 18th, 2010
You’ve all read THE PESSIMIST, who spews his Bucs-related anger like no other. But Joe also wants you to know THE OPTIMIST.
THE OPTIMIST is Nick Houllis, a Bucs fan and an accomplished writer whose steadfast allegiance to the team goes back to the 1970s. Houllis is the founder, creator and guru of BucStop.com, a place Joe goes to get lost in time via Houllis’ stunning video collection.
THE OPTIMIST will shine that positive light in your eyes. Some will love it. Some won’t.
With the Detroit Lions here Sunday, all eyes will be on rookie defensive tackle Ndamukong Suh who was the fan favorite here in Tampa Bay to be drafted by the Bucs. Most fans if you ask them feel like the Bucs ‘settled’ for McCoy; and seem to have an “I told you so” attitude when discussing the differences and accomplishments of Detroit’s rookie this year.
There is a really simple message to all those fans; Get over it.
For starters, the Bucs NEVER had a shot at getting Suh, Tampa Bay had the No. 3 pick in the NFL, Detroit was at No. 2. They were not looking for a trade. They wanted Suh and they got him. That’s not to say that in the end McCoy is a mistake.
Things were looking bleak for Gerald McCoy through the first two months of the season and then he got two half-sacks against San Francisco in Week 10 and then two full sacks the next week. But McCoy tore his bicep muscle and is down for the season, stuck with his three sacks to Suh’s eight.
This just in folks, you don’t have to have the best player to win a Super Bowl, nor do you have to be No. 1 to win in general.
The Bucs had Simeon Rice, one of the best defensive ends at the time, but not THE best. Michael Strahan probably was better, but Rice filled the need for the Bucs.
Tampa Bay needs a dominating defensive tackle that penetrates into the backfield from the 3-technique. McCoy is that guy; or rather he will be, in a year or two as he develops more. Suh is excelling right off the bat, but that’s nothing new.
We all knew Suh was the better player coming out of college. We also knew McCoy was the better fit for the Bucs’ D-line. He still is, so the only thing required now is patience.
Suh has had veterans around him, McCoy was put in from week one with Stylez G. White as the most veteran teammate on the line, and Roy Miller next to him.
Advantage: Suh.
So when your at the stadium watching the Lions, watch Suh with all his talent on display like we used to watch Barry Sanders amaze us. Barry was the best of the best, but Warrick Dunn was getting the job done just fine.
December 18th, 2010 at 11:56 am
If GMC becomes a “Warrick Dunn” type of success, I’ll be thrilled. I think he will be fine. The other thing fans might see tomorrow is that Suh isn’t that strong against the run.
December 18th, 2010 at 12:12 pm
what a stupid analogy.
Just because Suh has had more of an impact in his FIRST 12 games, really like 9 games, doesn’t mean there is a such a huge gap. Some players take a little longer to adjust to the NFL game.
How bout you take this silly post down and address it again in 5 years when we know who these players really are.
BTW as a pure pass rusher, Simeon Rice WAS BETTER than Michael Strahan. Strahan had 6 seasons in 15 years with 10+ sacks. Rice 8 seasons in 12 years.
December 18th, 2010 at 1:03 pm
Why didn’t we try for a trade with STL? They probably could have taken it and still have easily been able to get Bradford.
Also, we selected McCoy for a defense that the management had decided to abandon the previous year but then scrapped after we found out that we didn’t have the players or coaches that could effectively implement it?
December 18th, 2010 at 1:42 pm
No Koolaid:
That was not going to happen. Mark Dominik doesn’t like trading draft picks, especially last year’s picks which by all accounts was a very deep draft. He covets draft picks like Joe covets Rachel Watson’s breasts. Only way the Bucs could have gotten St. Louis’ pick was to cough up a bunch of draft picks.
Also, St. Louis wanted Bradford badly and wasn’t going to risk Detroit trading with someone who then would draft Bradford. Smart move by St. Louis, no?
Though water way under the bridge, or as the recently departed Bob Feller once said, “You can’t saw sawdust,” Joe thinks that’s a load of crap. Good coaches get the most out of their players no matter who they are. Good coaches don’t try to shove a square pen into a round hole.
December 18th, 2010 at 1:47 pm
Simeon:
Joe’s too busy with real work to do the research but if you look at GMC’s last five games and Suh’s, there’s not much of a difference at all.
December 18th, 2010 at 1:50 pm
Pete 422:
Given that Dunn is a borderline Hall of Famer (look at his total rushing yards), that would be a halluva pick if GMC can someday be considered a Hall of Fame candidate.
December 18th, 2010 at 2:11 pm
joe…yea GMC has come on strong lately, so really it was only 7-8 games that Suh outperformed. Who knows what he(GMC) would have done if he played a whole 16? I’m still very bullish GMC, i just think its way to early to pass such judgment.
You never know, GMC MAY be a leader on a winning team for a long time, while Suh slides into the obscurity of Detroit? A lot of talented players have walked into Ford Field/silver dome over the years, and a lot of “where are they now”
December 18th, 2010 at 2:12 pm
WRONG! Good players improve their TEAMS!! The Lions drafted Suh, and signed a boat load of talented free age
December 18th, 2010 at 2:16 pm
Hey! What happened to my post?? I didn’t post all that! My comment was the stuff at the top and the bottom. Joe, can you help me out and erase that stuff?
December 18th, 2010 at 4:44 pm
Thank you, Joe! Apreciate the clean up! As I was saying, ahem. WRONG! Great players improve their teams! The lions drafted Suh, signed a BOATLOAD of talented free agents, and they still suck, and their record still sucks! We drafted McCoy, didn’t sign any significant free agents, and will have improved 5-9 GAMES! No THAT’S a difference maker! The lions are running everything thru Suh, to artificially pad his stats. They have to! It’s the only bright spot of their season! If they make Suh look great, meybe the Detriot fans won’t realize that their front office is a bunch of idiots! They needed a LT to protect their talented young QB. Instead, they draft a DT – idiots! Now their QB has been hurt so many times, it’s probably chronic. Plus, he now has developed ” happy feet” in the pocket. They may have ruined his career! How much difference has Suh made? None. They still suck! McCoy made a huge difference here, stats be damned! You’ll see how badly we miss him this Sunday! I would take McCoys disruptiveness over Suh’s brute force everytime. McCoy is the perfect fit for our defense. Wanna see who’s better? Look at the TEAM’s improvement, not the stats of a guy on a 3-13 team!! Raheem is on point- Stats are for losers. Detroit is making Suh look good. But the team would have been alot better with the OT they needed. No amour of superstar stats for a DT is gonna make you feel good about an 3-13 season. Those stats may fool the optimist- But not the Good Capt’! I’d take McCoy for this team over Suh everytime. I like winning, not good stats on a crappy team!
December 18th, 2010 at 4:52 pm
And just how has Suh done since Vanden Bosche (sp?) went down? 2 games, 7 tackles – and he still has more veterans around him than McCoy.
I’m not buying the Suh is better than McCoy crap but would love to revisit during year 3.
And tell me, which record would Suh rather have – that’s right, ours.
December 18th, 2010 at 7:22 pm
Capt.Tim,
Very good points.
December 18th, 2010 at 8:11 pm
Suh is overhyped. Has been awful against the run and actually doesnt have nearly as many QB pressures as he should for a guy leading the league in snaps played amongst DT’s. Lots of sacks but relatively few pressures. Other guys on that line are actually getting more consistent pressure than Suh. Pro Football Focus, whom Old School pimps in his video preview, had McCoy ranked #6 ahead of Suh #7 for ROY honors. At least until McCoy got hurt.
Check it out-
http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2010/12/17/race-for-rookie-of-the-year-sams-slippage/
December 19th, 2010 at 12:30 am
Capt Tim’s analysis of Suh and the Leos makes for great fan reading but is quite a bit short on reality. Suh’s numbers are very respectable considering that he is doubled team on nearly every play. Contrary to the Capt’s ill conceived logic that Detroit funnels plays his way to pad his stats it is in fact that just the opposite of what occurs.The need for the opposing O-line to account for his presence makes it possible for the other D-linmen to make plays. The problem for Detroit this year and like Tampa was that they were decimated by injuries at the several positions except for one key position-that being quarterback. I can not think of any NFL team playing their 2nd and 3rd team quarterback(s) and stay competitive the way Detroit has been this year. A healthy Stafford throwing to Johnson or having your top 2 running backs 50% healthy would of made a big difference in several of the close games they played .This will be a very close game with the q-back playing the best making the difference. Also- Captain keep an eye on Det. O-line .It is bettor than you think and that is with a 3rd stringer behind centre.
December 19th, 2010 at 3:38 am
ND75- your loyalty to the lions us admirable. As a a former long Suffering Buc Fan, I know how difficult it is to support a perennial loser. Buuut, how good your Oline is??? Let’s ask Matt Stafford, as he was leading the league in times sacked before being put down( and out of his misery) for good. No, good Olines tend to keep their Qb upright – FAIL! Suh’s stats aren’t padded??? Watch the game! Detroit has made him a “rover”!! That means he has no gap responsibility! All he does is try to penetrate gaps in the line, with no run responsibility!! That’s a sweet stat pad deal! It’s even better than what they did with him in his last year of college! The have their middle linebacker cheat up to cover the 3/4 gap, so that Suh can trophy hunt. If McCoy( Who is faster) was playing that spot, he’d have 15 sacks and 20 for a loss. Detroit HAS TO MAKE SUH LOOK GOOD! Otherwise, what else can they put a positive spin on, after Sucking so bad, so long! Nothing. Except probably ruining their franchise QB behind that great OL! Don’t worry, pretty sure Crowder and White will have some Jeff Backus sacks today! Again, ND75, if Suh is so good, how come you suck just as bad as last year. Great players improve their teams. Suh is just an over hyped wasted draft pick on a team fulla losers. Until someone in their front office pulls his head outta his butt, and drafts players, not hype, Detroit will continue to suck. Oh, well, meybe you are a Bucs fan also? At least this team is on the right track!
December 19th, 2010 at 6:48 am
ND75 . In the spirit if Christmas, you make one point that I agree with- Matthew Stafford throwing to anyone would have made a big difference. Stafford is a very talented young QB. The lions are a much better team when he is on the field. I really like the kids game. I was barking weeks before the draft that Detroit needed a LT, and that drafting Suh was a mistake. Everytime I see Detroit’s answer to turning their team around in a sling or on crutches, I question the sanity of Their front office. Stafford should be the number one priority on that team, but he’s not. It’s sad, and it just doesn’t make sense . . .
December 19th, 2010 at 11:29 pm
Like I said Capt.the O-line for Detroit is far bettor than Most people realize. Added 2 key parts and took a while for them to get in syn. For years the L.T. was put on an island-no all pro but he can play . Impressed with Feeman- just about any other Q-B today would of been nailed more than 3 times-in 2 years maybe 3-if there’e a lock-out these 2 will be class of the NFC. Tampa did have some bad luck -I’ve watched Stanton since high school-today was his dream come true.