Two Edge Rushers?
February 16th, 2025
Help him.
Joe doesn’t think Bucs AC/DC-loving general manager Jason Licht would do this. Still, it’s an interesting thought.
Does Joe need to repeat how badly the Bucs need an edge rusher? It’s pretty clear to most people but Joe isn’t sure if the right people fully embrace this notion.
How bad is the edge rushing? Bad enough that Joe would add two pass rushers this offseason.
If the Bucs wanted to draft an edge rusher and add a legitimate edge rusher — not some dude who gets four sacks and comes with hope of repeating another accident like when Shaq Barrett blew up — Joe would be fully OK with that.
But Joe doesn’t believe Licht will do that.
The man behind WalterFootball.com thinks if the Bucs are serious about contending for a Super Bowl, they have to address the Bucs’ biggest hole, which also happens to be at its most important defensive position.
Two Edge Rushers: YaYa Diaby has emerged as a dangerous edge rusher, but Tampa Bay’s other young edge rushers have disappointed. The Buccaneers need some better pass rushers so they don’t have to blitz as often.
Joe wouldn’t call YaYa “dangerous.” Joe likes the guy a lot. But Joe’s line of demarcation is 10 sacks. Sort of like batting .300 in baseball. If you can’t hit .300, then you’re not a special hitter. Consequentially, if a guy cannot get 10 sacks in 17 games, in Joe’s mind he’s not a dangerous sack guy. I
f YaYa had help from the other side, he may just hit double-digits.
What about second-year man Chris Braswell? No, Joe’s not giving up on him but he had pretty close to zero production last year. If he wasn’t on the roster, he wouldn’t have been missed. He had 1.5 sacks.
History suggests the vast majority of rookie edge rushers are underwhelming. So Joe isn’t going to kill Braswell. But 1.5 sacks for Braswell on a team that didn’t have good edge rushers playing ahead of him?
That’s just 1.5 more sacks than you and Joe — and a guy with a nice salary who couldn’t put the bong down (allegedly) to go to one practice.
Joe doesn’t believe in banking on hope and right now banking on Braswell in 2025 is just that.
It’s not crazy for the Bucs to add two edge rushers. If the Bucs do that, it tells Joe they really believe they can unseat the Eagles as the big dawgs of the NFC.
February 16th, 2025 at 12:11 am
Serious question. Why does Todd keep dropping pass rushers into coverage?
Until thats figured out, theres no point in focusing on edge rushers. Just saying.
February 16th, 2025 at 12:49 am
Bucs have had multiple opportunities these past several years to add a quality edge rusher yet we’ve passed each time. No real explanations given why we didn’t pull the trigger, yet I think it’s safe to say the reason has been MONEY. Quality edge rushers strangely enough want to be paid the big bucks (sorta like quality WRs?).
Look at our 2 most recent high-priced edge rushers. JPP gave us 54 games in 4 years, and accumulated 33 sacks & 93 pressures. Played the run quite well, but not known for strong coverage skills. No clue how much he cost us all together, but his 2-year contract with us for 2020 & 2021 totaled only $25 mil.
Shaq has given us 71 games in his 6 years with us, and accumulated 45 sacks & 167 pressures. He also plays the run quite well, and has decent coverage skills for an OLB. Looks like those 6 years with us will have cost about $88 mil.
Both players were relatively inexpensive by today’s standards. At the same time though, neither appeared to be in the superstar category that would command huge $$$. JPP only had 1 year here where he exceeded Joe’s 10-sack threshhold … he had 12.5 sacks in 2018. Shaq hit that threshhold twice … 19.5 sacks in 2019 and 10 sacks in 2021. For the other 3 years, JPP averaged 7 sacks/year, while Shaq averaged about 4 sacks/year for his other 4 years.
So neither was what I’d call a model of sack consistency while here at Tampa playing for Todd Bowles. The question in my mind becomes one of ‘Is it because of how they were used?’ or ‘Was it more because of injuries or whatever?’
It’s probably some of both, but I think that Todd’s expectations of his OLBs is different than most other 3-4 DCs. Playing the run is Job#1, along with providing contain to minimize explosive plays. Providing pressure is well & good, but Todd seems to know how to generate that from all over the place. I think that OLBs like Diaby & Braswell fit his defense (and his expectations) very well; it just takes them awhile to ‘earn’ their way in.
February 16th, 2025 at 12:51 am
MadMax … ‘Why does Todd keep dropping pass rushers into coverage?’
From what I’ve read elsewhere Max, that’s just part of the 3-4 defense. They all supposedly do it to some degree or another.
I suspect though that the more a team blitzes, the more their OLBs have to be used in coverage. Bucs blitz a LOT.
February 16th, 2025 at 1:07 am
@MadMax
I can think of several possible reasons.
1. He doesn’t have adequate personnel on the line to get a consistent pass rush so he has to mix it up.
2. He doesn’t have adequate personnel to play man coverage without a consistent pass rush so he holds every one back into a prevent defense. (Which we all know doesn’t prevent anything)
3. He’s a mad scientist with a Einsteinian level defense that takes three years to learn and that’s as long as you don’t have personnel changes every year.
4. He is just a genius and his defensive schemes are so far beyond our comprehension that no one will ever understand what he does.
February 16th, 2025 at 1:25 am
Obvious double digit sacks are nice, but I think if we’re being honest the 10 threshold is kind of high with how much rotations are used these days. Just like at all these “stud” pass rushers this year who has less than 10 sacks in the regular season:
Nick Bosa, Brian Burns, Leonard Floyd, Max Crosby, Josh Sweat, Franki Luvu, Khalil Mack…
I’d be happy with a guy who just get 8 at this point… the fact that Kancey and Vea both had 7 is incredible, but we need pressure from the edges too. Consistently.
February 16th, 2025 at 1:34 am
If you can’t hit .300 you’re not a good hitter? If you hit .300 over your career your probably a hall of famer.
February 16th, 2025 at 1:49 am
They definitely need one. Hopefully they get one free agency that’s a known commodity
YAYA was great at QB HITS and pressures. Needs to get over the edge this year with 10+ sacks.
February 16th, 2025 at 2:20 am
Been thinking the same way Joe. We do not have anyone who would scare me if I were game planning for our edge rush. We need two. Diaby still needs work.
Go Bucs!
February 16th, 2025 at 4:13 am
Really good pass rushers don’t grow on trees. They are few and far between, like QB’s. This isn’t hyperbole it is what it is. They cost a fortune, and they better be legitimate with that kind of investment, you better not miss.
February 16th, 2025 at 5:31 am
Who is this Chris Braswell of which you speak?
February 16th, 2025 at 6:24 am
@MadMax
Toddy drops the big boys into coverage due to their elite speed and agility. Moreover, they can tend to block the sun from the receivers to better allow them to track the ball. Or something.
Who the hell knows? Cool fad? Lost a poker bet? Worked in Madden?
Philadelphia never drops their DL back into coverage … and I think they win the Super Bowl.
February 16th, 2025 at 6:24 am
“you hope by accident you repeat another accident when Shaq Barrett blew up”
I guess I’m always the contrarian. I do not “hope by accident”. I hope by JL’s skill set. If Shaq was an “accident” why are we even concerned? We just have to hope for another “accident”. Personally I think I’ll give Todd a little more credit and believe he’ll figure it out.
” Serious question. Why does Todd keep dropping pass rushers into coverage?”
The Bucs play a 3-4 not a 4-3 and so responsibilities change for OLB’s.
The 3-4 defense employs bigger stronger defensive linemen that will necessitate a “two gap” approach to their play. This means they will have to control two gaps of the offense. Outside linebackers traditionally are a “HYBRID” type, meaning that they can rush the passer, OR DROP INTO COVERAGE.
Having said that the NFL is constantly evolving. D.R. is much better than me at following these evolutions and changes.
A lot of teams still use a base 3-4, but it seems like a lot of them end up in the nickel package more often, which replaces a DL with a D
Base defense are dead in the nfl. It’s all personnel matching and most teams run varieties of D’s. As D.R. pointed out Todd’s “matching” even sometimes includes what appears to be a 2-9 when he blitzes and he is known for blitzing a lot.
I think seven sacks along with the growth of YaYa provide real “hope”. The interior is set, Ya Ya and hopefully Braswell and Todd uses the nickel a LOT.
The Bucs have some promising DB’s but absolutely NEED AW31 to return to health and his former game changing plays!
Just as the OL improved a couple of great draft picks…a STUD LB who can cover and a cover corner.
February 16th, 2025 at 7:24 am
They had YaYa covering backs in our playoff game, he couldn’t do it. The Bucs drop their OLBs in coverage more then any other team in the league. Teams have caught on, it was exploited time, and again. Bucs need to have their edge guys containing running QBs, and rushing the passer. They shouldn’t be covering backs, and receivers. Up to Licht to get some better players, but it’s up to Todd, and his coaches to put their players in better position. Edwards should’ve been replaced by now. Todd’s on his final year, better fix this defense if he wants to get extended.
February 16th, 2025 at 7:55 am
What is considered a blitz these days? Anything more than four? I would be happier with another DT like Nolen or DE like Sawyer.
February 16th, 2025 at 8:08 am
I would be interested in seeing Warren Sapp added as a DL coach. Can he even coach? My guess is yes he can. Regardless, it would be nice to see his orneriness rub off on the entire D line.
February 16th, 2025 at 8:34 am
Lt Dan
Good point. I may be mistaken but I think Calijah has at least spoken with Sapp and they have a mutual respect.
The “orneriness” is already in Calijah. In fact sometimes he goes beyond the edge and I hope he’s disciplined enough to know when to use his “ornery”.
February 16th, 2025 at 8:39 am
Get one in free agency and draft another.
February 16th, 2025 at 8:49 am
We already need to obtain 2 ILB minimum most likely from FA. With this 2 edge theory we would need 2 OLB also from FA since per Joe Todd isn’t able to develop edge rushers and Licht can’t pick them. That’s a lot of salary to find with the little bit of cap room we have. I don’t hate it. Some cuts and restructuring could make that work and leave Jason free to draft corner, DL, OG and WR. The FA market has some reliable if not great ILB for reasonable prices under 10mil. Edge is much harder to get guys who could make a significant upgrade without sacrifice of picks and future cap space. It’s a choice. We are on the verge of getting out of the cap nightmare next year. Do we stay the course and draft our way out or jump right back into the hole thinking the window is about to close. Personally I prefer the draft route with some reasonable FA gambling.
February 16th, 2025 at 9:16 am
Thanks guys. Im trying to learn. Ive never really delved deep into play calls and positioning, hence im very vague on those fronts. Im a simpleton in a way. Pass rushers get after it, coverers do just that, cover. Maybe we need to go to 4-3, i dont know. I just want to figure out how to help get this defense back to humming with some draft picks (opinions) that will do the job. I guess thats why I like a hybrid safety/LB and Emmanwori fits that. But some have him going late first-early second. I guess im missing something….and Revel and Schwesinger are barely talked about. Revel gets a little recognition here and there.
I guess if we need a pass rush that bad and Mike Green falls to us, or we sign someone, ok. I just think Safety, CB, and ILB better also be a priority.
February 16th, 2025 at 9:20 am
And @Brandon, exactly how i feel lol
February 16th, 2025 at 9:30 am
We don’t have money to sign a premier edge rusher. Plain and simple. With Godwin, Bredeson and LVD all on the open market, we need to either prioritize them or get an edge. There’s no way we can afford a Garret, a Crosby or even a Hendrickson. The best bet is to try and find a veteran or cheap second contact guy with upside like we found with Shaq. Hope and pray Braswell bulks up and hones his craft this off-season. I honest think we need to not draft an edge in the first round, I’d rather get CB or defensive line help
February 16th, 2025 at 9:35 am
I am totally for that. 2 means a better chance that one will hit, also thus is the NFL and you never know when injuries will hit.
February 16th, 2025 at 9:46 am
He drops the lineman in coverage because the defense is anticipating a specific play, where as the lineman fills in a gap between the DLine-to-CB-to-WR. The design of the play is not to have the lineman make a play, it’s a visual to cause confusion on the QB during his progression…and yes, he’s done this from the beginning and we haven’t complained about before because the defense hasn’t been this bad. It looks ridiculous when you see guys like Vita drop.
We make a lot of assumptions that Bowles is asking for guys like Vita to drop in coverage, and even as athletic as he is, I don’t think he’s diming Vita specifically, I think it happens to be the shuffle that takes place on the dline and where Vita ends up at the end of it, forcing him to play his role. Then again, I could be wrong.
February 16th, 2025 at 9:58 am
Zoocomics
Thanks for that very thoughtful effort. I agree with everything you said including for me at least…I could be wrong, wouldn’t be the first nor the last time!
But you make valid points! When I tried to research 3-4 versus 4-3 I came away with the impression that even those terms have become outdated.
As you just explained teams now ALL kinds of variations designed to “confuse” or at least keep the QBs and OC’s guessing.
Teams are now running all kinds of “situational” defenses and perhaps that is also the problem with the perception of Todd. His D’s confuse our more traditionalist posters. It was a lot easier to dissect in the old 4-3 days without all the “situational” moves.
Bottom line for me though is the ATHLETES! Some players make coaches look great, others make them look foolish. I think AW31 is a player who makes coaches look great when he’s healthy. I think Zyon also has the capability to become one of those guys. LVD certainly is but his days are numbered.
This is why I hope the Bucs draft the best athlete for a position of need!
Perhaps Jihad Campbell is that guy who like AW31 has enough skill to be versatile.
@DR A simple question in case I’m misconstruing. I think Todd’s D depends on VERSATILE athletes capable of moving around on the field like so many chess pieces. My question a two parter, am I correct and secondly does he have enough “versatile” athletes to adapt to his diffferent D’s?
February 16th, 2025 at 10:35 am
Because of Bowles everyone is Under this impression if there isn’t major production in year one from the draft pick like Braswell you should go get another 2 guys or keep drafting in the mid round until you find a diamond which is a pipe dream. No Licht won’t do that and push Braswell down the depth chart and why would he. Josh sweat has 4 sacks as a rookie and had A double digit sack season. He hasn’t had this dominate career everyone is pretending he has even playing with a stacked d line.
February 16th, 2025 at 10:37 am
@ Joe, who was it that couldn’t put the bong down to go to one practice?
February 16th, 2025 at 11:23 am
Randy Gregory, allegedly
February 16th, 2025 at 11:31 am
Banking on draft choices is banking on hope. Sign or trade for a veteran, Licht!!
February 16th, 2025 at 11:31 am
How often did Shaq Barrett drop into coverage when he snagged 19.5 sacks?
At least we know now that winning the turnover battle correlates to winning the game, so there’s that.
February 16th, 2025 at 11:37 am
We still have Shaq Barrett if he gets up to snuff with the playbook, and he may still have something to prove.
February 16th, 2025 at 11:52 am
What is Licht supposed to do in the draft if he won’t give his guys opportunities. Even if Bowles favors JTS Braswell should have played more then at least you’d know if two pass rushers was needed. This coaching staff literally plays the veterans because they can’t teach.
Signing Randy Gregory last year was Licht saying either we can win the Super Bowl as constructed, I trust Bowles to get most out of the players on our roster or I haven’t given him enough players to go far enough in the playoffs.
February 16th, 2025 at 1:15 pm
If the Glazers & LIcht were serious about making a push for the SB, they wouldn’t be running back the same mediocre HC & tired D staff. They’re perfectly content with being the best of the worst division in football.
February 16th, 2025 at 1:55 pm
So, what I heard in the article was that Celine Dion loving GM Jason Leitch wasted another draft pick on a bust for chris braswell. Why not just say it? (I wonder how long until the Joe-Joes delete this post?)