Helping Your Down Linemen Improve
February 17th, 2025
Making the defensive line better.
Joe knows the Bucs have an underrated unit on their defense.
No, it’s not inside linebackers, where the Bucs may have to fill two starting holes. No, not the secondary where Joe thinks a new starting corner is needed and maybe a safety, too.
It’s the defensive line, the three down linemen (not to be confused with the so-called edge rushers or outside linebackers).
Joe understands people like to rag on Logan Hall. Yes, in a perfect world Joe would hope the guy would be dominant as a 33rd overall draft pick. But he had a solid year last season basically as the new Will Gholston.
No, Hall is not a Pro Bowler, but he did what coaches asked of him. So Joe can’t destroy him for that.
Calijah Kancey and Vita Vea? Name a better one-two punch at defensive tackle not located in Philadelphia.
Vea is a beast, that’s all there is to it. Kancey is way underrated. If he can escape training camp on two feet, he could be dominant. He already is against the run.
Want to know how to make these three guys even better? If the Bucs would just embrace the real world and modern football (“modern” being the past 50 years) and go get a proven edge rusher.
Dan Pompei of The Athletic thinks a quality edge rusher could turn the Bucs’ front-five into a force.
The Bucs’ leading sackers last season were defensive tackles Calijah Kancey and Vita Vea, who had 7.5 and 7, respectively. A little more juice off the edge would complement the tackles and outside linebacker Yaya Diaby as well as enhance the pass defense, which ranked 29th in the NFL and generated only seven interceptions. The Bucs also might have to replace Joe Tryon-Shoyinka, a former first-round pick who has started the last three years. Tryon-Shoyinka will be a free agent.
Joe would be very surprised if Joe Tryon-Shoyinka is back. If the Bucs thought they could squeeze any juice from that lemon, they wouldn’t have pulled Shaq out of mothballs.
Put a proven edge rusher on this team, someone who has had 10 sacks in a season and won’t be distracted by the bong, and watch this defensive line explode.
Joe likens it to when Vea returned in the playoffs for the 2020 season. When he was on the field against the Packers, they simply did not have enough bodies to take care of Jason Pierre-Paul, Shaq Barrett, Ndamukong Suh and Vea. Shaq went bananas and hounded drama queen Aaron Rodgers the whole game.
And the Super Bowl win over Kansas City was a repeat of that.
Get a real edge rusher in there and Vea and Kancey will go crazy. And it’s a fair bet that YaYa Diaby blows up as well.
February 17th, 2025 at 8:38 am
I like Hall. He gets a little better every year. Yep. Definitely need some edge.
February 17th, 2025 at 8:48 am
It will be interesting to see what Charlie Strong brings to the party. Kacy Rodgers didn’t really develop anyone over the 5 years he was Defensive line coach.
February 17th, 2025 at 8:48 am
No mas, no mas, we r tired of JTS. Let’s just cut our losses with him. We need a proven playmaker n not someone for four years with potential only. Let’s also cut ties with Dean. I’ve seen too many plays where he gets injured on a simple stumble,trip, or fall. Or, drop an easy int, or have the opportunity to punch or snatch the ball away from receiver n he just falls to the ground with his passive tackling. We need aggressive ball hawking playmakers n JTS n Dean does not fit the description. I concur,if we get an aggressive DE who can get 12 sacks, hand’s down,our defense will be a top five elite defense. No more Dean, KJ Britt, Hayes,
JJ Russell, Gholston, RNeal.
February 17th, 2025 at 8:52 am
IF you just look at the starting DLine, we’re pretty solid with Vea (705 snaps), Kancey (541 snaps) & Hall (539 snaps). Problem is that DLines must rotate key personnel to stay fresh (as in ‘To create interior pressure’?). Bucs’ depth (key rotational personnel) is an issue.
Last season that depth consisted of Gaines (395 snaps), Gholston (202 snaps), Brewer (160 snaps), Greene (58 snaps) & Stille (14 snaps). Gaines, Gholston & Brewer are all FAs. With little depth, we’re 1 injury away from disaster.
Also, if you add up all of the DLine def snaps from last season (8 DLinemen), you end up with 2,614 def snaps. Bucs’ defense was on the field though for a total of 1,065 def snaps. If we were using 3 down linemen (our 3-4?) on every play, we should’ve logged 3,195 def snaps for those 3 positions. But we didn’t; we’re 580 def snaps short, meaning that we really averaged about a 2.5 man DLine instead of a 3 man DLine over the course of the season. Hard to get consistent pressure with only 2 down linemen.
Interestingly BTW, our OLBs accumulated 2,278 def snaps last season, so 2 OLBs were on the field for each of those 1,065 def snaps plus a few more. So we had an extra OLB in there on a number of defensive plays. Hard to exert interior pressure without having enough big dogs in there.
Bucs NEED to re-sign Gaines & Brewer, then draft a starter-quality DLineman (a beast) to replace Gholston. Ideally he’d be someone on a par with Vea, such that if the big guy goes down like he did in 2020, we still have a beast to play NT who can control the LOS & exert pressure.
There are a number of big NT/DTs in this year’s draft who could really help us. Our Rnd 1 though should go for a CB; our Rnd 2 for an ILB, and our Rnd 3 for a NT/DT.
February 17th, 2025 at 9:08 am
Would you rather have Chris Godwin or a proven stud at edge? Both is ideal, but if it was a choice, what would you do? I’d pump more money into edge and less into WR or corner. Licht’s misstep was signing both Davis & Dean to high market contracts, and he lucked out when the Lions took Davis’ contract off his hands.
Throwing big money at two receivers would also be a mistake. If that’s the choice this offseason, as much as I love CG, I’m going after Garrett instead.
February 17th, 2025 at 9:09 am
Need to start a muscle development program that is on par with the Eagles and Ravens.
The Bucs are like the Rays standing on the field with the Yankees …… There are only a few Rays players that look like they could go play Man Ball with the Yankees !!
The Bucs beat the Eagles when they were a mess but the got physically stomped by the Ravens ……The Ravens Starters were helmets off laughing on the sidelines like it was a practice game mid way through the 3 rd quarter
February 17th, 2025 at 9:33 am
Completely off subject I know but I saw the Eagles just had a boat parade…. Cant help but to think they are trying to be just like us. First the SB then the parade. LoL
February 17th, 2025 at 9:58 am
Braswell will slide into JTS role and be solid mark my words but we still need all the help we can get. Why spend so much on Garrett if he’s going to be dropping in coverage?
February 17th, 2025 at 10:00 am
Logan Hall is a great runner. Amazing athlete.
But he’s a weak tackler.
If Myles Garrett was at DE in this defense, not OLB, this defense would be the best in the NFL. And place Diaby next to Garrett. Nasty.
Let Barrett, Nelson, and Braswell rotate on the other side.
Diaby is like JPP. He can play 100% of the snaps.
February 17th, 2025 at 10:10 am
Couch Fan… I bet that’s a pretty sweet boat parade on the Delaware River!
“The Delaware River, a vital waterway for the northeastern United States, contends with various threats, including sewage overflow and industrial waste.”
A stechy boat parade for a rotten city.
If we follow DRs draft plan, we really do need to get an edge rusher via free agency, the only way we’ve historically been able to get the good ones.
Rice, Barrett, JPP… etc
February 17th, 2025 at 10:11 am
And of course I hope Braswell turns a corner and ends up being very happy surprise!
February 17th, 2025 at 10:12 am
Not a fan of JTS. He plays way to soft for Lt. Dan’s liking. However, mark my words, in true Bucs fashion, JTS gets released and goes off for another team.
February 17th, 2025 at 10:28 am
I do not see how they are underated. Look at the reality. Bowles loves plan 9 he will prolly keep him.
February 17th, 2025 at 10:32 am
Scott … ‘Why spend so much on Garrett if he’s going to be dropping in coverage?’
Interesting observation Scott. Personally doubt that the Bucs would ever win the bidding war for Garrett (Commanders & Chargers both sound like they’re willing to go whole-hog to get him). Bucs don’t play that way.
Myles Garrett doesn’t fall back into coverage. In his 7 years he’s been targeted only 16 times total; that’s it (like 2 per year). Even Todd Bowles wouldn’t use him that way. JPP for instance played 54 games with us & was only targeted 30 times total. Why? I think it was because Bowles had guys named Vea, Suh, RNR bringing pressure up the middle, plus he had Shaq, White, LVD, Winfield & Whitehead blitzing like crazy. I’m convinced that he wanted JPP & Shaq to provide contain and bring pressure from the sides. Must’ve worked; we won a Super Bowl using that approach.
February 17th, 2025 at 11:16 am
Wish the Bucs would go back to a base 4-3 and get two FA DEs that can put serious pressure on the QB. Bowles multiple blitz packages mean nothing w/o players that get to the QB. Think the Eagles proved that in the SB with four lineman and no blitzing.
Jason has to do something as Vea and Kancy are all the Bucs have up front.
February 17th, 2025 at 12:13 pm
JTS would be better suited to a 4-3, probably where he’s gonna go
February 17th, 2025 at 12:13 pm
Joe, I am so glad you continue to write about, to me, the most important fix of this team. Everything else would just fall into place on the defensive side of the ball if this is addressed. Continue to hammer at your keyboard, someone, hopefully will listen to reason. Without a distraction coming from the outside moibund times will be here to stay. And if they wait too long the makeup of the team will change and then the lost decade just might show its ugly head.
February 17th, 2025 at 3:11 pm
The pass defense is in decline and is costing the Bucs victories. Fix it.
February 17th, 2025 at 4:27 pm
Khalil Mack no matter what
February 17th, 2025 at 6:16 pm
The Bucs have a major need at backup NT. Gholston isn’t likely to be back at DT and it’s possible we lose Gaines who is VVs primary backup. Even if Gaines is back the position can use an upgrade. I could see Licht using an early (not 1st) pick there. It’s also a spot that can be addressed with a reasonably priced free agent.