Good Defenses Aren’t This Inconsistent
October 6th, 2024
Roller coaster defense.
OK, Joe is still gritting his teeth and kicking an empty 12-pack box across the office at JoeBucsFan.com world headquarters over how the Bucs blew a critical division win on Thursday night.
Joe is surprised the drywall is still intact after watching that gag job.
After watching that horrific defensive display, Joe no longer refer to Bucs coach Todd Bowles as a defensive guru. Joe still thinks he’s a solid coach. He comes up with some brilliant gameplans (Super Bowl win over Kansas City, last two games against Philadelphia).
But good? Good defensive coaches don’t have wildly inconsistent games. Superb one week (Detroit), horrible the next (Denver), suffocating the following week (Philadelphia) and then back to horrific (Atlanta).
Don’t give Joe this nonsense about injuries. The Bucs didn’t have Antoine Winfield against Detroit or Philadelphia. The Bucs didn’t have Vita Vea for much of the second half at Detroit.
The defense the Bucs had on the field Thursday night is more talented than anything the Stinking Panthers have put on the field this year. Carolina has yet to give up 300 yards passing in a game, forget 500.
Then there’s the little uncomfortable fact that as Bucs defensive overseer, Thursday night was the second time a Todd Bowles Bucs defense coughed up over 500 yards passing in a game.
That doesn’t happen to elite defensive minds.
And then, there’s Bowles’ apparent indifference to an edge rush (which grates on Joe more and more by the day). Bowles prefers to transform college pass rushers into corners specializing in pass coverage. Great defensive coaches don’t do that.
Kirk Cousins dropped back 62 times on Thursday. How many sacks did the Bucs get from their outside linebackers/edge rushers? Two, both from backups, Anthony Nelson and Chris Braswell.
The pass rush from the Bucs’ starting outside linebackers/edge rushers Joe Tryon-Shoyinka and YaYa Diaby? Zero. In 62 tries! They were too busy to be troubled with rushing the passer, apparently — too preoccupied trying to be Jamel Dean.
The fact the Bucs had virtually no pass rush from the edges on a dude about as mobile as a mailbox, Kirk Cousins, is glaring after Joe ran across this piece of NextGen Stats research.
Kirk Cousins completed 42 of 58 passes for 509 yards, 4 TDs and an INT, with all 509 yards coming from passes within the pocket, the most in a game in the NGS era (since 2016).
So since NextGen Stats was hatched, it never recorded a quarterback throwing for so many yards strictly from the pocket. So it wasn’t like the Bucs were moving Cousins off his spot, which Bowles claims the defensive tackles can do.
Cousins just sat back, ate a couple of Varsity hot dogs (with a side of onion rings), and shredded the Bucs defense, laughing at what the Bucs called a pass rush.
How is it that good defensive teams almost universally have a feared edge rusher but the Bucs can’t?
Maybe because the Bucs aren’t a good defensive team. Or at least, they’re not coached up well enough to be a consistently good defensive team.
October 6th, 2024 at 8:08 am
All good points. Need corrections. Or will go nowhere if they even get to the post season.
October 6th, 2024 at 8:12 am
Coach Bowles is not a defensive genius or guru..Just. Stop. Please.
October 6th, 2024 at 8:14 am
Bucs fans be like
Get rid of Devin White he can’t COVER !!! lol
Get rid of Devin White they said
Now yall are saying get rid of KJ Britt
October 6th, 2024 at 8:17 am
Fire Bowles
First he makes Bo Nix look like Elway
Now Kirk cousins throws for 500 yards
We shoulda won that game after the Lavonte David interception, Bowles is way too quick to punt the ball back and rely on a defensive stop !
October 6th, 2024 at 8:17 am
When you rope-a-dope consistently you’re eventually going to get knocked out. The Detroit game was borderline a disaster too. The D just made enough plays in the red zone that game. The Lions had over 450 yards and 7 trips to the red area. You lose that game 9/10 times.
Maybe it’s time to simplify the Defense and let LBs play LB, DEs play DE and so on and so forth
October 6th, 2024 at 8:20 am
@Jarrett Devin White could not cover or play the run. KJ Britt atleast had gap integrity and was where he was supposed to be in the run game which is what Coach Bowles emphasizes. Now when it comes to pass coverage KJ is just as bad as Devin. They both are graded out in 30’s for coverage by PFF.
That’s why losing Sirvocea is what finally sunk the defense. KJ was put on the field for 100% of the defensive plays and it resulted in 320 yards being thrown over the middle of the field. 320. Maybe it was because of the short week, but coming out to play the Saints KJ best not see the field or the saints will do the same exact thing the falcons did.
October 6th, 2024 at 8:29 am
It seems like Rah knew exactly what the Bucs were going to do offensively as well as defensively. I know he can coach both sides of the ball. But l never would have guessed in a million years, the Bucs coaching would be this poor. The Falcons were playing both Safeties in the box all night, daring Baker Mayfield to beat them. And the Bucs play calling were very conservative, only 24 pass attempts, and it seems half of them went to the TE,RB. Mike Evans was target once in the 2nd half, Chris Godwin probably 2-3 times.
A lot of these people on this site are blaming the defense
But l don’t see it like that at all
The CHOKE job comes from piss poor coaching
October 6th, 2024 at 8:30 am
Its time for Jason Licht to quit focusing on collecting receipts and collect some pass rushers.
October 6th, 2024 at 8:40 am
Jason Licht should have spent big money on pass rushers
Why spend big money on QB,WR, OT, when you’re going conservative?
October 6th, 2024 at 8:46 am
This loss will be season defining i believe. It was that bad. Have we not seen this too many times with Bowles?
October 6th, 2024 at 8:55 am
We win Championships in Lakeland, we don’t play for second place
I’m beginning to thinks Todd Bowles is not the right coach for this team. What l witnessed Thursday night, you don’t see too often in a NFL game. Too many wasted opportunities, going conservative after scoring 24 points in the first half. Taking the ball away from your hot QB and WRs, instead relying on the RBs with screens, run plays……all of which the Falcons were waiting for.
Todd Bowles and Liam Coen
They both should be embarrassed
If this happened in Lakeland
They both would’ve been fired Friday morning
October 6th, 2024 at 8:59 am
If you think about it Joe, we didn’t stop Detroit either, we did keep them from scoring. That was luck. Goff threw 55 times that game too. I think Bowles defense has been figured out, like dropping our OLBs in civerage. Teams see it coming, and exploit it. Add to the fact players like YaYa, Britt, JTS, just aren’t any good. Todd’s been running the same stuff going on 5 years. Like the Tampa 2 teams have caught up.
October 6th, 2024 at 9:05 am
I don’t want to dish on the defense too much. Plenty of blame to go around. But I think fundamentals are key. Bad tackling is not good. Three things – blocking, tackling, and “hang on to the football”. We failed on fundamentals. Nowadays your defensive backs are basketball players. Used to be we had wrestlers sprinkled in and our coaches wanted you wrestling after football season. Let some of these guys get some mat time in the offseason. Make them better tacklers. We’d see teams maybe once or twice a year with good pocket passers. So we’d blitz their butts off. And our Dbs would play bump and run. Anything to throw off their timing. Pure fundamentals. It’s early but I hate seeing us burned because we aren’t playing fundamentally sound football.
October 6th, 2024 at 9:07 am
Good coaches do not go turtle and then call soft zone coverage where sieves like Dean and Britt have been abused for all 60 minutes. Bowles has no accountability except for throwing a punter under the bus and saying that people were not in the right places….. This clown could outcoach Leeman Bennett and perhaps Dennis Allen but not too many other coaches.
October 6th, 2024 at 9:09 am
OK guys you can all breathe a sigh of relief! I’m taking a break until the place regains just a LITTLE perspective.
Actually if I respected BucU’s posts I’d simply stop being Buc’s fan.
“This loss will be season defining” Really? Then when’s the freaking point? Just give up.
Last year when the Bucs D totally choked away that game at Houston after Baker’s miracle comeback I was beyond peoed and felt like BucU does now.
Was it season defining? Was the Houston loss season defining? YES!!
The Bucs had come off a bye after a VERY successful start and then just went in the tank getting blasted at home by the Lions and then edged by 3 at HOME against these same Falcons..oops Cousins “might” be better than Ridder?. then came the expected loss in Buffalo for a 3 game losing streak.
The Bucs pull into Houston to face a truly hot QB and yet Baker pulls it out at the end…oh noes..the freaking D collapses in the final minute again erasing the Mayfield miracle. FOUR LOSSES IN A ROW!!! The season was OVER!!!
Certainly the fans, including ME, gave up. Guess what. The group that actually matters THE PLAYERS did NOT LOSE FAITH IN BOWLES!
THIS is why I’m gripping this morning over freaking MILTON not the Bucs.
IF the players bail on Bowles the same as JBF and the fans here the Bucs are scrwd. IF however like last year they keep the FAITH and GET HEALTHY I still have faith!
Sorry to be the optimist that craps on the negativity parade. If you really wish to be negative just imagine what a CAT 3 hurricane with 10-15 surge roaring right up the middle of Tampa Bay will do to all that we love and the friends we have! THAT’s serious. A collapse no worse than last year’s Houston game when everybody was saying the SAME things then they are this morning is NOTHING compared to the imminent DANGER we face.
See you guys after storm, hopefully, and everybody stay safe!!!
October 6th, 2024 at 9:10 am
The Bucs need a decent HC and a decent DC. Nothing is going to change until that happens. The turtle offense in the second half, combined with the nonexistent defense for the whole game, means this team is going nowhere. The talent is not that bad. The coaching is pathetic.
October 6th, 2024 at 9:18 am
1sparkybucbuc,
We need a new overhaul coaching staff if we want to complete
This staff is a 500 staff, which makes us a 500 team
October 6th, 2024 at 9:19 am
He is a coordinator not a head coach which is why he can’t give up play calling duties, he doesn’t absolutely nothing else on the sideline.
ATLANTA HAS NO PASS RUSH!!! toilet Bowles is just trash and I’m kinda tired of the blitzing zone defense but I do love the 3-4. I do not like his defense but I love our players.
Super Bowl win over Kansas City. Banged quarterback, injured o line, JPP and Shaq on the edges with a motivating Tom Brady of course I liked our chances but I think that win was more to do with the players than his game plan. His didn’t blitz, the corners locked down because there was no time to throw.
October 6th, 2024 at 9:25 am
@Stpete – I agree with you.
October 6th, 2024 at 9:38 am
Players lost this game and yes @joe when your best defender is out it makes a difference. Antoine Winfield junior stops a lot of that. Also, Jordan Whitehead going out at end didn’t help.
Bucky Fumble
Barton Holding Call
Jamel dean not holding London down for another second
Maybe if my guy lavonte just knocks the ball down
We had 11 qb hits and 4 sacks. It’s not an anemic pass rush. We know you don’t like Bowles and we know you like a household name pass rusher. Next year Jason Licht will break the bank. I doubt Bowles is arguing with Licht saying I don’t want any premier pass rushers.
Sad part is I think they are gambling thinking they could win all these games and let kancey and Winfield rest. If they can play, they should be playing.
October 6th, 2024 at 9:42 am
Atlanta runs a 3-4 has 5 sacks this year and have yet to give up 300 yards in a game. People think Winfield and Kancey aren’t going to magically fix Todd Bowles but it won’t just like it didn’t last year. We beat 1 single team with a winning record last year and that was Philly in the playoff game. Yea we have an awesome roster but Todd Bowles is your head coach this season will not be what we want it to be I don’t have that faith in him
October 6th, 2024 at 9:52 am
Bowels is who we thought he was: mediocre as HC!
People who are still shocked that his teams can’t string together long winning streaks are just naive …
October 6th, 2024 at 10:17 am
Bucs’ season is just 1/3 of way in and Bowles should be fired
3 big plays in 4th quarter went against Bucs and was main reason for the loss
1- Bates punched out ball on Irving’s run with 2:50 left – really biggest play because Bucs were moving, churning clock and were destined to score.
2- refs missed facemask call which because of BS holding call pushed them out of FG range
3- Bucs defenders jumped up too quickly after last Cousin’s completion in regulation-allowed the spike with 1 sec left.
It’s a tough loss, but if the Bucs can get healthy- they are a very good team
October 6th, 2024 at 10:24 am
I went from ‘very confident. To confident. Finally don’t think the defense is very good. Especially the secondary. I like Winfield. Whitehead and Zyon. Offense is very good if they don’t run so much. When teams get good at defending the pass then throw a few runs in there. Not up the middle. Bucky will be fine but think about Tucker too. Don’t let White run period. I do like him but he takes a back seat to winning. Tell Bowles to leave the offense alone and learn to read the clock!!
October 6th, 2024 at 10:27 am
I wouldn’t get too hung up on the 507 yds. As pathetic as it paints the defense, it’s exactly what Cousins had to do to win the game. The Bucs were putting up lots of points in the first half and the D pretty much kept Atlanta’s running game under control. So the only way they were going to win was to throw a lot. They don’t need to throw a lot to win against Carolina. So, passing yards are often more a reflection of what an opponent needs to do to have a shot at winning rather than the capabilities of the defense in shutting down the passing game. Even though Atlanta threw for 507 yds, did they stomp the Bucs. NO! It took a FG (which never should have happened if Dean had laid on the receiver for just another SECOND) to send the game to OT.
October 6th, 2024 at 10:36 am
Bowles is an awful defensive head coach. He has the same defense schemes as mike smith if not worse. Todd makes these FAST ATHLETIC CORNERS play reactionary defense(zone overwhelming zone) vs a preventative style(aggressive FIVE OR MORE MAN blitzes with man on man coverage).
If Bowles wants to say “we dont have the personnel” to play man, then its his own fault he made the roster.
October 6th, 2024 at 10:38 am
Todd Bowles was a safety when he was an NFL player. He has the DB mindset. Enough said.
October 6th, 2024 at 10:49 am
Defense was gassed. That’s why Bowles primarily used zone coverage, and also why the offense was ordered into turtle mode. Turtle mode theoretically keeps the offense from scoring too quickly. Nice idea. But it didn’t work. Took too long to pivot from that plan to something else. Game over. And Jesus, you could have landed a 747 in the middle of the field with our zone coverage. Bend but don’t break doesn’t work with cooked spaghetti.
October 6th, 2024 at 11:01 am
I warned you guys before, we have no pass defense: 1) JTS and the rest of the edge rushers are ineffective. Maybe because they drop back in coverage and rush with DB blitzers who seldom get to the QB. 2) The DBs consistently play 10 yards away from WRs when opponents have 5 to go for 1st down.
We are relatively lucky when other team runs the ball. Sometimes we stop those.
Licht and Bowels need to coordinate our picks. JL drafts edge rushers and TB turns them into coverage LBs. Easiest way to get out of this is to dump Bowels.
We all know that with all the players we have there is trouble with this team. Lack of 2nd half adjustments/improvements is normal for this team, but in the Atlanta game it looked like any adjustments made just made us worse. Who’s responsible for that?
October 6th, 2024 at 11:28 am
I’ve been a Todd Bowles defender. But Thursday was inexcusable
Bowles made a lot of gambles this offseason by trading Carlton Davis and neglecting pass rushers in free agency. That only works if you coach well enough to cover for lack of talent.
There’s been too many times where he doesn’t adjust. Couple that with game management errors and I’m officially on the “Bowles belongs on the hot seat” bandwagon
October 6th, 2024 at 11:33 am
Bucs fans still traumatized from the dark ages, let the season play out more that’ll show what we are. It was a weird loss, so many things went in our favor and we still lost. I feel like we win that game 9/10 times, Bowles couldn’t tackle the Falcons for his team. The tackling was atrocious, those receivers are solid but they looked like the best receivers in the league. Just one of those nights
October 6th, 2024 at 11:42 am
@joe: it pleases me to notice you have finally seen the light… I saw it 3 years ago. Welcome!
October 6th, 2024 at 11:49 am
The Glazers just donated a bunch of $$$$ to everything that happened with the storm so if they really wanted to spend the $$$$ they would.
October 6th, 2024 at 11:53 am
The Ira Kaufman podcast talked, all offseason, training camp, preseason. Here we are a qtr in the regular season and Bucs are thin at passing rusher and thin at middle linebacker. Bucs management has failed in this. I understand they know the pass rush will dramatically increase when Kancey returns. But they needed depth at pass rusher. JPP is sitting around unemployed right now!! Heck the Ravens just added a pass rusher to an already good pass rush. Cause that’s what good teams do. Yet Bucs management won’t not can’t, they won’t go get depth at pass rusher??? And what are they doing going forward just going to stand pat with KJ at starting middle linebacker, frustrating.
October 6th, 2024 at 12:07 pm
This team will continue to have these collapses as long as Bowles is the HC. His players on defense don’t play smart or disciplined. Yaya, Kancey and Britt are frauds!
October 6th, 2024 at 12:28 pm
@Bobby
You got JPP out there along with Barrett still who basically said he’d come back if they asked him. There’s still Robert Quinn & Chandler Jones, too! Who cares. Even in the secondary. There’s Patrick Peterson & Marcus Peters still sitting out there, too! Sure Peters has had his problems with things & sure they’re older now but right now who cares. Anything would be an upgrade. They need a couple other veterans there, too! The team is too young & that could be part of the problem, too!
October 6th, 2024 at 12:36 pm
Last year the defense faded twice in games when Mayfield and the offense brought the team back late in the game. Both times on ensuing kickoffs the opposing teams marched easily down the field to win at the end of the game. Mockingly, the defense used in those failures and in Thursday night was referred to as Cover None Defense. Not much has changed.
October 6th, 2024 at 12:46 pm
Jason and the Glazers need to demand Todd names a real, full time defensive coordinator especially a passing game coordinator. Keith Tandy always was a great coach on the field. Put him on the job.
October 6th, 2024 at 1:41 pm
ItsJustOneGame … ‘Maybe it’s time to simplify the Defense and let LBs play LB, DEs play DE and so on and so forth’.
I’ll give you credit; at least you offered a potential SOLUTION instead of just more whining & bitching. And I for one agree with you. Bowles is compromising all over the place IMO in an attempt to cover up multiple weaknesses. OLBs constantly falling into coverage? Exhaustive blitzes that aren’t getting getting home? Playing too much zone trying to keep everything in front of the defenders? It’s now looking like one massive compromise instead of a well-thought-out & executed strategy.
The talent that we put on the field Thursday night is a far cry from the talent level we fielded during our 2020 SB. And it’s just become one big compromise on defense, vainly trying to compensate for lack of talent.
And yet, just about every JBFer points the finger exclusively at Todd Bowles instead of at Jason Licht also. Yes, even you Joe. Oh I agree that Bowles maes tons of mistakes, but JL is the one who stocks the cupboard; not Bowles. The problem with fielding a defense made up of too many less talented players is that they’re not consistent. And that’s my issue with key players like JTS, and Hall, and Britt. And yes, that also includes relying far too much on 1st & 2nd year players like Diaby & Braswell & Smith & Izien & Kancey to fill starter positions. There’s no excuse IMO for starting Britt (we KNEW he was slower than cold molasses) & for not signing an experienced veteran at MLB. Also no excuse for not bringing in an experienced pass rusher (we KNEW what we had on the roster at OLB was not gonna get the job done). Could say the same thing about not having more beef at DT to spell Vea (we KNEW what his availability was). Also the same thing about TE but that’s another story.
JL put our 2024 money into the offense when we re-signed Mayfield & Evans & Wirfs, plus added Bredeson & Opeta in FA and drafted Barton, Irving, McMillan, Klein & Culp. Our defense sucked hind teet, epecially when it comes to depth. Guess we got what we paid for.
October 6th, 2024 at 2:19 pm
Processes either change or die. Bowles is 60+ years old and still can’t see what the novice couch coach can.
October 6th, 2024 at 2:36 pm
D.R.
I largely agree with your take. But again if I start finger pointing it’s at EVERYBODY! None of us is perfect. I heard somebody say a cheerleader farted on the sidelines of the last game!!! Of course it was Bowles fault he should have made sure managment selected cheerleaders without flatulence.
I don’t know if guys here really comprehend the implication of their Bowles trashing. Bowles was BA’s guy. Bowles is a SB winning DC but as you point out he had guys like Suh, JPP, and a young DW45 who still played with his hair on fire.
If Bowles is as “pathetic” to use one description I’ve read, what does that make BA, Licht and dozens of other NFL executives who have hired Bowles. Are they not then morons for hiring a “pathetic” coach?
Again I understand people don’t want to hear excuses. But not having the very best safety in the league missing when the Bucs desperately needed help in the middle is reality not an excuse. Not having a potential star DL who certainly flashed last year means it’s not fair to judge Licht’s efforts in getting a pass rush.
The Bucs bet the franchise, mortgaged the farm, whatever to win the Super Bowl. Did anybody really believe we were going to escape cap hell unscathed?
Here is what I’m looking for and how I’ll judge Bowles. Let’s see if his PLAYERS stick by him as they did last year or if they bail like the fans did last year and already this season. If the Bucs get like Philadelphia, talented but disturbed individuals and lose any team cohesion and belief it’ll be obvious and when the players bail I’ll join everybody else here in bailing. Until then I’m inclined to keep an open mind.
October 6th, 2024 at 2:38 pm
Our short handed defense gave up 10 points the entire second half of last game until 53 yard field goal with no time left. It felt like we’d given up 28 easy. Voila! Todd Bowles defense encapsulated. If our offense had scored 7 points second half we would’ve won. Defense saved us in Detroit. Offense couldn’t save us in Atlanta. Baker and Liam know that even if most of us don’t. Thankfully.
October 6th, 2024 at 4:21 pm
This is where the “Joe” who keeps talking about how the Panthers haven’t given up 500 yards losses all credibility. Context matters the Panthers games are over around halftime what team is going to continue to throw at that point??? This was a dog fight and I feel good about this team considering the injuries. Injuries are an excuse to say otherwise is clownish. Each team has those guys that if they get hurt torpedos seasons. That’s the nature of the game, especially in the salary cap era. Quit whining and complaining, it’s quite annoying.
October 6th, 2024 at 4:33 pm
The only problem I truly have with Bowles defense is the lack of a dominant pass rusher or at least a group of good pass rushers like Baltimore.
October 6th, 2024 at 4:36 pm
Well to be fair, we don’t have a good defense.
We really haven’t had a good defense since 2020/2021.
They’re good at times, but way too inconsistent. Maybe that will change if we ever get healthy. But as long as KJ Britt is playing, the middle of the field is gonna be wide arse open more often than not. KJ Britt – too slow to cover and too slow to blitz. Perfect.
October 6th, 2024 at 4:43 pm
The amount of times I saw YaYa dropping into coverage was maddening!!!!
I can understand doing that with you OLB maybe 2 – 3 times a game, MAYBE, but not 2-3 times on every drive! Bowles outsmarts himself and then plays passive zone defense, which we still don’t play well, yet he insists on it all the time.
@Jarrett – to be fair, Devine White wrote his own ticket out of town. Fans may have wanted him gone too, but they didn’t say they didn’t want him replaced with someone better. No one had faith in Britt, except Bowles, and we’re seeing how that’s working out. It was super predictable. He’s okay against the run, but that’s it.
October 6th, 2024 at 4:45 pm
These coaches and front office claim their goal is the SB, but we didn’t address OLB at all besides a rookie draft pick, and we did nothing at ILB either, which everyone knew was a weakness. I like Licht, but it seems every year there is 1 – 2 positions that we need help on, and he just doesn’t address them.
October 6th, 2024 at 5:01 pm
Unbelievable,
We haven’t replaced these key players with quality similar players
Alex Cappa
Ali Marpet
Ryan Jensen
Antonio Brown
JPP
Suh
Gronk
Shaq Barrett
Devin White
If we can get half of those guys production, we’ll be alright
October 6th, 2024 at 5:03 pm
But my problem isn’t with the defense
My problem is wasting away our offensive talent
October 6th, 2024 at 5:11 pm
Joe – “Cousins just sat back, ate a couple of Varsity hot dogs (with a side of onion rings), and shredded the Bucs defense, laughing at what the Bucs called a pass rush.”
I think he also had chili on them dawgz and had time to ask one of his O-linemen for a napkin so he could be truly clean in the pocket.
October 6th, 2024 at 7:39 pm
Man.. this game against a great team, went to overtime and came down to a fumble.. yall trash for “fans”.. hope they fire some of yall