Statistic Highlights Glaring Difference Between Bucky Irving And Rachaad White
September 24th, 2024
“Hey Buck, are these cats laying down for me?”
This just isn’t shocking, it is alarming. And Joe has a strong hunch you can’t blame Robert Hainsey.
Bucs fans seem to be getting the hint that Joe understood last year, that Rachaad White, while an exceptionally good back in the passing game, is pathetic as a running back. Certainly when running between the tackles.
Many Bucs fans stomped and hollered at Joe claiming it was always the offensive line, parrticulary the same guy who can be fingered for the Ebola virus, global warming and unrest in the Middle East. That would be Hainsey.
Well, through three games, Hainsey has taken one snap on offense. So Joe doesn’t believe you can blame Hainsey for the following.
River Wells of SI.com dug up an advanced stat from Pro-Football-Reference.com, which is sort of the bible of the NFL. And the numbers are downright revolting for White.
Through Sunday, Bucky Irving was second in the NFL in yards before contact at 5.2. Only Lamar Jackson of the Crows has more.
Now guess who is dead last in the NFL? That would be White with an average of 0.5 yards per carry before contact.
Yes, both guys are teammates. Yes, both guys run behind the very same offensive line. This reinforces what Joe has been typing about for over a year: White cannot read blockers and doesn’t hit holes.
How else can you explain how one running back running behind the exact same offensive line is second-best in the league at running before being hit, and the other guy is dead last?
The only other explanation would be suggesting the offensive line of the Bucs is laying down for White.
No, Joe doesn’t believe for one second that is happening.
More than once this summer, Bucs coach Todd Bowles griped that White wasn’t hitting the holes with authority or making the first guy miss like Irving did in college. Sometimes he said this by praising Irving for doing just that in practice.
After Sunday’s game in which White was awful running (again) and Irving showed electric flashes (again) — and Bowles saying yesterday that Irving should get more touches — are White’s days as the Bucs’ RB1 over?
September 24th, 2024 at 12:08 am
Case closed .. even before Halloween. Proud of Bucky Buc
September 24th, 2024 at 12:45 am
Coen under pressure to produce a fast start this week. That means throwing with early success to set up the run game. Look for more throws on first down, with Baker bootlegging. Maybe a few trick plays to boot!
September 24th, 2024 at 12:45 am
Isn’t it obvious why the discrepancy? Rachaad White said his mentality was “hitting anything that moves”. He should have been instructed to “avoid anything that moves”, including his own OL.
September 24th, 2024 at 12:53 am
And as someone else said – boot Baker to the left. He was good at running left and throwing last year.
September 24th, 2024 at 1:39 am
Per Wells, Bucky Irving is second in the NFL in yards before contact at 5.2. Only Lamar Jackson of the Crows has more average yards before contact. Now guess who is dead last in the NFL? That would be White with an average of 0.5 yards per carry before contact. Yes, both guys are teammates. Yes, both guys run behind the very same offensive line. To Joe, this just reinforces what he’s been typing about for over a year: That White cannot read blocks and doesn’t hit the holes.
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Joe, I love this site and all, but that’s literally one of the worst takes I’ve ever read here. You watch the games, and you know they’re NOT getting the same touches.
Bucky, for example yesterday, had 2 big plays. One was a misdirection, the other was an end around. In week 1 when he had 2 big runs, both were somehow where no Redskins defender was within 10 yards of him when he got the ball.
When Bucky is running the way they use White, which is right up the gut, he’s getting 2 yards just like White.
Funny thing, when you get White into space, like they’re doing for Bucky, he’s literally one of the best in the NFL at making guys miss.
The lesson should be STOP RUNNING UP THE MIDDLE WHEN YOU SUCK AT IT.
In any case, if they start using Bucky like they use White, we’ll all be back here in a few weeks with the same articles we’ve seen for years about needing yet another RB.
However, I have a feeling because Bucky is a small guy and the perception is you can’t just run him up the middle on every play, they might actually be creative – and hopefully he makes the most of it – and maybe even the idiots coaching the team will start to figure out that perhaps they shouldn’t do thing they stink at.
September 24th, 2024 at 1:46 am
Bucky took that one handoff right up the gut and recognized it IMMEDIATELY, saw-it and bounced it out for a 4-yard gain, instead of running right straight into the muck as White does literally, EVERY. Single. TIME. He has NO vision. ZERO. And, he runs as if he’s wearing two concrete boots while stuck in quicksand.
September 24th, 2024 at 1:47 am
I’m of the mind that our offense is going to be pedestrian and a shell of itself until Goedeke returns (if he ever returns).
Our offense was awesome Week 1 with Goedeke and pretty poor in comparison Week 2 and terrible Week 3.
Joe, get some word on Goedeke please….
I have a bad feeling about his head/brain injury.
September 24th, 2024 at 1:49 am
Oh, and Bucky needs to be RB1 and give Tucker some freakin touches too. WTH man
September 24th, 2024 at 1:50 am
No vision. No instincts. I saw him cut the wrong damm way at least twice on Sunday, when he did have a shot at picking up significant yardage. Just Terrible. The ONLY way he’s picking up major chunks of yardage or at least of any significance, is when he catches it in-stride with open space.
September 24th, 2024 at 1:55 am
After watching all 22 I finally have to admit something that I did not want to and that is there is a runner, White has very poor vision. I watched him run into a pile of players when there was a hole on the outside. I have seen many times him failing to see and hit the open space. Sadly I have to say that vision is a must for running backs and White doesn’t seem to have it when the ball is handed to him. Throw him the ball and it’s a totally different story. He makes would be tacklers Miss and seems to squirm out of some impossible situations.
September 24th, 2024 at 2:07 am
Yeah, Eric… It’s like, what else do they seriously have to lose at this point!? I mean, is Bowles REALLY that scared of Bucky and Tucker’s ball security!? Who Cares. Wasn’t there ‘a thing’ once called, “No Risk-It – No Biscuit” or some such, at one time LoL. When Goedeke is back fully, it’s time to fully ‘move-on’ from the INSANITY of White. USE HIM for what HE IS… A ‘Slash-WR’ like Deebo. I thought Cohen was “THE (genius) MAN.” Everyone said as much… Said they just couldn’t wait to see all of the different packages he’d have for White (and Bucky), in order to keep Defenses off-balanced and guessing. As a lifelong “Kentucky-Fan” since birth (season ticket holder, including a Box/Suite since Day-1, when they were first added/renovated/built), I was VERY skeptical of that. But, we shall see…
September 24th, 2024 at 2:17 am
They problem being… I’m not sure that Baker can make the short to intermediate route throws on time & on target where it needs to be in order to get him the ball in the first-place, like they do with Deebo. And, I’m not sure that they have the confidence in him to do so, either!? Because, he can’t fricken SEE. It’s always, a 98mph fastball (&/or) too high, of behind the Receiver, late, etc.
September 24th, 2024 at 3:14 am
Joe, is there a reason White went from WR to RB? I thought he did that in college for some reason. He’s clearly good at catching, why put yourself in a worse position to succeed?
September 24th, 2024 at 3:16 am
Rod, you are NOT the expert you think you are, I will go with Joe on this one.
September 24th, 2024 at 3:16 am
Bucky will be RB1 against the Eagles. If not it’s one more reason to replace Todd with a real head coach.
September 24th, 2024 at 5:41 am
Rod … ‘When Bucky is running the way they use White, which is right up the gut, he’s getting 2 yards just like White.’
Bucky has run up the Middle 4 times out of 25 attempts (16%) and produced 27 yards (3, 11, 4, 9). Rachaad has run up the middle 3 times out of 31 attempts (10%) and produced 1 yard (2, 0, -1).
Just thought some stats to back up your conclusion (or not) would be helpful. Or not.
September 24th, 2024 at 5:47 am
Joe … Is there any way that Nex Gen stats can isolate on only those plays where Rachaad & Bucky are BOTH on the field at the same time? I finally saw BOTH of them on the field at the same time Sunday and it looked like the plays were very effective as I recall.
September 24th, 2024 at 6:21 am
So, to JBF’s point we wasted a first-round draft pick on a center when we already had a stud center. I hope Licht gets fired for a ridiculous draft pick when nothing was broken there, Bucs just needed to find a scape goat for White.
Right now, we’re fixated on yards per carry, but that’s never out of context, especially when you have chunk runs. But you’re right JBF, which you’ve been dying to hear from the White faithful, Bucky is getting more yards per carry. Not TDs, not catches, at least not yet, but he’s got White beat there in that department after 3 games.
Be careful what you wishful when you think the 5’9″ 190lb Bucky Irving is ready to be the bell cow of this offense behind an offensive line that is underperforming terribly. We’re really not good in any facet, especially after I thought this would certainly be a strength of the team this season. It’s not just Skule, it’s Mauch, it’s Wirfs, just not good play from anyone to have consistent success in this offense.
This offense the last 2 weeks hasn’t been good, Bucs are watching the same film, with more expert analysis than this bunch, if Bucky gets the start, it is because he’s the right guy vs the Bucs just trying to piss of the fandom in Tampa Bay by staying loyal to their 3rd Rd Draft Pick. If White is still running the football, it’s something they’re trying to do that they’re not sure Bucky can handle full-time just yet.
September 24th, 2024 at 6:53 am
What will it take for Irving to start????? Come on Todd be a head coach!!!!
September 24th, 2024 at 6:55 am
One of my preseason predictions was that Bucky will be starting by week 4. Maybe?
September 24th, 2024 at 7:47 am
Bounce it out. Bounce it out. Bucky. Bucky. White Sucky.
Rather hear Joe Piss and Moan about the Edge.
How about crating a lane where the Run is suppose to go? Give up yardage to try to make a splash and more times than not you are looking at 2nd and 14 and not 2nd and 8 or 9. Bucky’s rushing yards were a non issue to the Broncos. Like farmers leaving the bottom 2 feet of grain in their silo’s to the rats. Made no difference as the Bucs were out matched in every other area and position.
Joe takes stats like yards before contact and uses them as a way to push for a change. Yawn. Joe was eager for change long before Irving was drafted. Erase the data if you wish. — Joe
Don’t mention that some of the runs were misdirection sweeps with fakes to White up the middle where yards before contact were greatly exaggerated. Nice Trick. What can you do with a 10.1 QBR from week 3. Joe is creative and I could use a good laugh this Morning.
September 24th, 2024 at 7:48 am
Adding YAC to this post would have help some understand the true difference we’re seeing between these two guys.
September 24th, 2024 at 8:29 am
You don’t need stats to see who the better runner is. It’s obvious.
Bucky has 1000% more initial quick step burst ability. He’s doing better in short yardage, badly blocked plays, or well blocked plays. Across the board it’s like A grades to C- or F for White.
On badly blocked plays he has still gotten 3-4 yards, where we usually see White lose yardage. Over the course of the game that adds up a ton.
3rd and 3-4 yards to go vs 3rd and 7-8 type situations when you are running on 1st and or 2nd down.
He should be the 1A now. And Tucker maybe should be the 1B with White a passing down back. It is what it is. He’s had enough rushing attempts as a lead back in his career.
September 24th, 2024 at 8:30 am
Also Graham Barton was a great pick and needed.
We may need a new RG. Mauch has been horrible to my eye. Maybe it’s because RT is so bad. But still.
September 24th, 2024 at 9:16 am
Whites days should have been over after Week 2 of preseason. Bucky is better at toting the rock, period. It’s not just the stats, it’s the eye test as well.
September 24th, 2024 at 9:18 am
Won’t be long before Bucky starts…might happen this Sunday!
September 24th, 2024 at 9:27 am
It’s a benefit to just use both. There is zero shot Bucky takes the “full work load” they will just continue to split the carries as they should. I think of this situation as Kamara & Ingram situation the saints had. It worked great for them why not us? (BTW it used to be said Kamara wasn’t a a good RB he eventually developed after Ingram left and became a full RB1)
September 24th, 2024 at 10:11 am
Rachaad gained 5, 3, & 4 yards in his first three carries. And, played hurt,so Bowles started running him “up the middle.” It was an order by Bowles. Bowles didn’t order Bucky up the middle; much, that is. When he did send Bucky up the middle, Bucky was stopped in his tracks, too
Wake up: “It’s Bowles.” The upgrade was getting rid of Canales, ya,, but now, in this game, he sandbagged Coen.
On the “bright side,” remember that game at the end of last year during the win-streak where both teams were flat; in Sunday’s game, only one team was flat and unprepared.
Take the mulligan.
With starters back, the team itself will turn things around. like last year.
September 24th, 2024 at 10:29 am
I’ve said it multiple times. The Buccaneers have a nasty habit of sticking with an underperforming player for way too long.
Tim Brown as a PR
Michael Clayton
Peyton Barber
Gerald McCoy
And now R White.
The sooner you see Bucky as RB1, the sooner the offense will open up.
September 24th, 2024 at 10:47 am
Uh, R White had 1,000 rushing (close enough), and another half that receiving last year. Impressive touchdown totals and a proven, smart, clutch player.
And a team couldn’t ask for a more reliable player; had to have been playing hurt Sunday, but hasn’t missed a game.
Bucky’s played three games and has had the significant break of being assigned outside plays.
September 24th, 2024 at 11:06 am
You’ve been consistent and persistent on this Joe. The numbers and the massive amount of carries on White don’t lie. Yes, the o-line is not performing well for sure but, it’s very noticeable to the eye that Irving’s burst and vision is far superior.
September 24th, 2024 at 11:42 am
If that Broncos game is what it took to get Bucky starting, then it wasn’t really a loss at all
September 24th, 2024 at 11:51 am
Bucky! Bucky! Bucky!
Well I’ll be Joe, you were right on this one!
Bucky’s got the juice and can make people miss, the way he juked guys and broke ankles out there was a sight to see on Sunday. There wasn’t much I could smile about that game but Bucky was definitely one of em. He’s gotta start the game on Sunday.
September 24th, 2024 at 12:41 pm
buckys best runs were well designed plays by cohen . i believe white was on the field at the same time. bucky as the main back wont be getting these huge chunk plays . bowles is right need both backs with an uptick in bucky but dont expect miracles
September 24th, 2024 at 12:49 pm
I’ll tell you one thing (and I hate to continue with all the hate)… The Kentucky Offensive Line continued to decline every year under Cohen. They had built a famously STRONG O-Line (named “The Big-Blue Wall”) before Cohen. Everyone across the country ‘nationally’ has been talking about it for the past 2-3 years now, “what has happened to the days of the big-blue wall, that it no longer exists, Etc.” Remember for YEARS, it was literally ALL they had was that O-Line paving the way with strong punishing run game (with solid Stoops-Defenses). They changed some things up finally, & have looked a lot better Thor the past 2weeks against UGA and Ohio. Hell, they were DOMINATED by Southern Friggin’ Miss and South Carolina tho, in those first two games. I’ve just been wondering about what Cohen is doing with this Bucs O-Line, & if there is any direct comparison, since even WIRFS has not looked right!?
September 24th, 2024 at 1:00 pm
how has buckys pass protection been ? could be a reason hes being limited especially with this oline
September 24th, 2024 at 3:19 pm
Found this on the web. Denver game only
Zone vs Gap run totals
Zone – eight carries, 31 yards – 3.9 avg
Gap – eight carries, 60 yards – 7.5 avg
Bucky Irving got two zone runs and seven gap runs
White got six zone carries and no gap runs
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I’m thru defending Rachaad even though I DO think he’s gotten a bad rap. I don’t care who runs it or who’s designated RW1 anymore, just find something that works and perfect it and that’s on Coen and Carberry.
They need to find what the line CAN DO WELL and do it more…not sure we have the line to succeed in the wide zone game he likes.
More 21 personnel ?
September 24th, 2024 at 3:26 pm
Ed McSherry Says:
September 24th, 2024 at 10:11 am
Rachaad gained 5, 3, & 4 yards in his first three carries. And, played hurt,so Bowles started running him “up the middle.” It was an order by Bowles
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Evidence?
September 24th, 2024 at 6:25 pm
I’m not good with open-ended, one-word questions about several aspects all at once. What are you talking about?
September 24th, 2024 at 6:39 pm
Evidence that Bowles “ordered” or directed the offense to run up the middle. The “it was an order by Bowles” part.
September 24th, 2024 at 7:03 pm
Rod munch…. That’s a BS take! No one but yourself can possibly take what we are seeing and come to the misguided conclusion that It isn’t a fair comparison! I don’t Always agree with Joe’s take, but I this case the results speak for themselves!!!
September 24th, 2024 at 9:47 pm
Good point. Bowles has acknowledged this.
September 24th, 2024 at 10:40 pm
GoneGator Says:
September 24th, 2024 at 6:39 pm
Evidence that Bowles “ordered” or directed the offense to run up the middle. The “it was an order by Bowles” part.
It’s my opinion.
A lot like that: it’s your opinion that it wasn’t.
It sure looks like that way, considering it’s now the third offensive coordinator in a row to waste downs on running it up the middle when the run-blocking obviously isn’t there to support
September 25th, 2024 at 12:10 am
What happens when it’s Rachaad who has the great game?
September 25th, 2024 at 1:26 am
Bucky is exciting asf
September 25th, 2024 at 9:28 am
I thought I saw a stat somewhere that showed that the Bucs are way more effective running gap and another showing that Irving has run the majority of his plays as gap while the majority of White’s runs have been zone scheme.
Not making excuses for White. Just wondering why that is.
September 25th, 2024 at 10:42 am
Rod Munch, I’m not buying anything you are saying about White. It doesn’t make sense what you are saying. What are you using to back up your statement that “White is one of the best RBs in making people miss” Ummm Whaaaa? Like in the entire NFL? He had like 900 yards on a million carrys last year. If that statement was even 10% right , he would have been getting the national attention he deserved. Bucky is 10 times more explosive “at making poeple miss”. It has NOTHING to do about his physique. And if White didn’t “stutter step and mess around” instead committing to the play, hitting the gap quicker, he would be more effective. He is NOT a primary RB and never will be. He has no everydown tools. What he IS, is a very good, passing down back and safety valve for Baker. My HOPE is they make White into Larry Centers 2.0. THATS his value. Bucky is more complete and better RUNNER no matter WHAT play is called. I call BS on the play calling narrative.