Carlton Davis Trade Makes Sense If…
March 12th, 2024
Grade.
Look, Joe knows you can’t buy every player and teams must adhere to a salary cap — except the slimy Saints.
So yeah, the Bucs can’t spend like Bucs AC/DC-loving general manager Jason Licht is on a wild, drunken bender in Las Vegas.
Still, you can’t become a champion by sifting through the bargain bin to buy a quarterback or an edge rusher.
Over at SI.com, Matt Verderame and Gilberto Manzano seem to like how the Bucs shipped off their No. 1 corner to the Lions yesterday in a salary cap-saving measure, claiming the Bucs “had plenty of depth in the secondary.”
Joe isn’t sure the Bucs’ had “plenty” of depth there. It is unproven depth. Do people forget how that “depth” played with Jamel Dean and Davis out? Or when they tried to replace Ryan Neal? Heck, the Bucs pass defense ranked 29th in yards allowed.
With Davis gone, the Bucs need an edge rusher way more than they did when the first day of legal tampering began at noon yesterday. And they needed an edge rusher badly before that.
If the cap savings the Bucs collected by shipping Davis to Detroit is used to buy a proven edge rusher, then yeah, Joe will grumble and agree the trade was good.
“This Joe has” a dark feeling the defense will slip back into the Mike Smith Error without addressing the pass rush.
As for grading the trade, Verderame and Manzano gave the Davis deal a B+ grade for the Bucs.
Former Bucs cornerback Carlton Davis posted this photo on his Instagram Stories account about the time news broke of his trade to Detroit late yesterday.
March 12th, 2024 at 10:06 am
CD 24 time for a wardrobe change gets pretty nippy up in Detroit…
March 12th, 2024 at 10:07 am
We could be talking about a long snapper and the article will circle back to the need for a edge rusher.
March 12th, 2024 at 10:08 am
David, or Dan, one had to go. Cannot pay 2CBs 13–14 mill when they can’t finish a season. Davis enable them to get a 3rd round pick.
Besides, this was the last year of his contract, he was going to walk after this because there’s no way they were going to keep paying that amount with him being injured so much
March 12th, 2024 at 10:10 am
Pickgrin Says:
March 12th, 2024 at 8:05 am
Particular set of skills Says:
“Well, better to get a 3rd this year then nothing after he walks next.”
I think thats the bottom line. If the offer was only a 5th rd pick – then Davis would probably still be here. But that extra 3rd rd pick (even though we gave up two 6ths) was just too tempting.
Hopefully Licht turns that pick into a starting Guard or somesuch. Or perhaps draft a replacement for Davis with that pick.
Our CB room had gotten too expensive and an adjustment/reset was needed so now its done.
Quite a few good CBs will be available in the 2nd and 3rd rounds this year…..
March 12th, 2024 at 10:14 am
There’s no way they stand pat and there is no way they depend on a rookie edge rusher with Yaya. Licht knows what it’s like to have a dominant pass rush. Go get Hunter, Young, or Reddick. Look at what the Giants gave up for Burns… surely Reddick can be had for less. Maybe that additional 3rd we have and we get him to re-sign?
March 12th, 2024 at 10:15 am
The good news is we got a third round pick for our third round pick. As noted, we get nothing next year. I have to assume that the GM has a plan. Both for the secondary and for the past rush. Since most of the moves recently have been good ones, albeit predictable, this one was a bit trickier. Hopefully soon we will have an unpredictable move that we all will like.
March 12th, 2024 at 10:15 am
good trade for both sides.
March 12th, 2024 at 10:24 am
There’s a couple of capable edge rushers out there. I just hope Licht is working on bringing one of them in.
March 12th, 2024 at 10:29 am
You cant pay two Cbs and a safety that much money, and be the 29th ranked Pass defense.
Something had to give.
Add in the fact that Davis and Dean seem to spend half of every season on IR didnt help their case.
And I pointed out several times last year- they were on coast. Perfectly happy with finishing in last place.
I think Zion and Izien showed talent. Also wanna see what Josh Hayes can do.
But the biggest problem is our worthless pass rush. Im not sure that JTS is aware of what his job is! Every play he gets pushed past the QB., then he just sorts stands there, watching the rest of the play.
If we save $5 on the cap- we should cut him.
Logan Hall is just a body. Unless they run into him, hes not a factor.
We need to get a pass rusher in FA, then draft one in round one- if any first round talent is on the board.
We should get a Defensive consultant to help with our pick, because we arent good at drafting D-linemen
Ive said it since mid season. Priorities have to be
Pass rush,
Guard,
Center,
Safety.
After a bunch of re-signings, WE STILL HAVE NOT ADDRESSED ANY OF THOSE PRIORITIES.
I have faith in Jason Licht. I think w’ll start seeing some help on those fronts soon
March 12th, 2024 at 10:29 am
I really liked Davis. Our defense was built to play press man though. Davis wasn’t good when forced to play zone. But when he and Dean got up the grill of the wideouts they could lock them down with those long arms. I still think we should have beaten Detroit but we played them soft on defense. That was an opportunity that got away from us
March 12th, 2024 at 10:31 am
All depends on the success of our pick & how we spend the $6mil
March 12th, 2024 at 10:32 am
I would thank Carlton for his service.
Because I’m not a heartless piece of trash like some of you guys.
Jamar Chase said he’s the best CB he’s ever faced.
Carlton Davis helped to change the entire culture of the Bucs.
Remember Brent “don’t tackle” Grimes?
Remember Vernon “the vag” Hargreaves?
Carlton Davis hit hard every game. Carlton Davis never shied away from contact.
He was a beast on the outside.
As a cover corner and as a tackler.
If you don’t pray for him, or care for him, or at least respect him.
Then you are, a piece of garbage!
Thanks Carlton!
March 12th, 2024 at 10:34 am
There is always risk vs reward
It is what it is now and the way of the modern NFL with teams essentially making themselves over every year.
March 12th, 2024 at 10:34 am
Joe Mixon was released by the Bungles. He would make a great complement to White in the backfield
March 12th, 2024 at 10:34 am
I love how Joe still apparently has no faith in Licht and his scouting department to do their jobs.
We had $80 million in dead cap last year and still somehow we’re a few plays away from making it to a conference championship last year.
Chill the F out, bro. You have got to learn to ride this first wave of free agency out without peeing your pants every year.
March 12th, 2024 at 10:46 am
I’m with Capt. Tim on the pass rush and his other points. I hope Licht can do something in FA, but I’m not too optimistic as Licht tends to find ‘value’ FA’s late in the process and they seem to under-perform after we sign them. I do like RB Aaron Jones that Green Bay just released.
I’d love to get Jackson Powers Johnson at #26, but all the mocks i’ve seen have him gone around #19-#22. I don’t think we should move up for him. I see Licht going edge at #26, then OL or ILB in the second and third. A darkhorse would be a DT3T to upgrade from Hall.
March 12th, 2024 at 10:52 am
Team should stack the offense, particularly run game and let Bowles manage a bend but don’t break defense. Replicating last yrs defense which wasn’t that great will still position us for a division title. Shaq’s production can easily be matched, Britt filled in fine for White, Davis sat in zone 75% of the time….McCollum can handle that. You can get immediate impact guys at o-line and RB, maybe TE. Not many defensive players can step in and impact games the first year.
March 12th, 2024 at 10:55 am
It was the right move. Davis was good, but we are getting younger for another run.
March 12th, 2024 at 10:58 am
Too much cheese packed into one position, not to mention Davis had a hard time staying on the field.
Davis is good, but not $14mil+injuries good.
March 12th, 2024 at 10:59 am
This is just the first wave of FA, and the draft is still weeks away.
Don’t consider a drive to the Skyway Bridge…
March 12th, 2024 at 11:09 am
Now Whitehead, please.
March 12th, 2024 at 11:15 am
Trade Trask for an experienced QB in case Mayfield gets hurt. I am sure Sam Howell or Desmond Ritter are available maybe Trask and a late round pick.
March 12th, 2024 at 11:17 am
What are missing without a Carlton Davis?
Here are some quick stats:
Games Played: 56
Games Missed: 42
Career Picks: 9 (Avg 1.5 season)
Career TDs: 0 (Longest return 42 yds)
Career FFs: 3
In the immortal words of Curly Bill Brocius – “Well, Bye”
March 12th, 2024 at 11:23 am
Whitehead, Keanu Neal, Mike Edwards all still available
March 12th, 2024 at 11:23 am
Good luck CD3, except when you play the Bucs of course.
March 12th, 2024 at 11:26 am
Everyone–most of this comment section–saying that if we didn’t trade him we’d lose him next year “and get nothing” obviously has never heard of compensatory picks. Since he was a second round draft pick we would’ve gotten the highest possible comp pick, which is a third rounder.
Exactly what we got this year.
March 12th, 2024 at 11:26 am
Teachermann77 sounds like Carltons mom or girlfriend
March 12th, 2024 at 11:28 am
Can’t believe we traded #24
I usually trust Jason Lit because Carlton Davis was a HUGE UPGRADE over Vernon Hargraves.
So compared to Hargraves I can’t believe we getting rid of Davis who was solid as an outside corner
It’s a Bucs Life
March 12th, 2024 at 11:29 am
Carlton David was a legitimate #1 Corner WHEN HEALTHY sand motivated. Last two years he was not. His career is on the decline. He just couldn’t be counted on any longer. Dean had a better year and is legitimate. I expect the Buccaneers to draf ta corner back in the first or second round.
March 12th, 2024 at 11:32 am
If the Bucs draft an interior OLineman, Pass Rusher, LB and WR with their 1st 4 picks and sign a FA DB , they’re in good shape going in to season.
Bowles will come up with a pass rush.
March 12th, 2024 at 11:38 am
Shaq to the Dolphins.
March 12th, 2024 at 11:42 am
i agree with everything but this article ignores one of bowles strengths, he produces excellent defensive backs including the ones mentioned by other commenters. so 29th hurts, but its where we took the cap hit. mike smith did not have that capability at least not here. we are not god awful at coming up with edge rushers either. i’m optimistic. and our division is a little better at b, but its not requiring us to have a superior pass defense such as if we were in the afc east
March 12th, 2024 at 11:48 am
Between him and Dean about half the games were “starter plus someone off the bench”. You’re only the #1 corner when you play. And Bowles absolutely coaches up DB talent. It will be alright. Need a man eating edge though… probably R1 draft
March 12th, 2024 at 11:50 am
We finished 29th in Pass Defense with him, I’m sure we can finish in 28th without him. Seems like a good guy but for the most part a non entity when it counted.
March 12th, 2024 at 11:51 am
I agree with TeacherMan 100 percent
WELL SAID BROTHER
CARLTON DAVIS PROVIDED STABILITY AT CORNER FOR SEVERAL SEASONS AND WAS READY TO PLAY DAY ONE, AND IMPROVED ON THAT EVERY YEAR.
March 12th, 2024 at 12:01 pm
Joseph C Simmons Says:
“Since he was a second round draft pick we would’ve gotten the highest possible comp pick, which is a third rounder.”
Um – Thats not how it works…..
We could have let Carlton play out his contract this year (which I thought they would – but like I said – the 3rd rd offer was too tempting) – walk in FA next year and perhaps receive some type of comp pick (probably a 5th or MAYBE a 4th) in the 2026 draft.
Better to take the 3rd rd pick NOW – Clear the books of the $8M in Dead Cap hits that was due next year and save $6.3M in cap space this year.
March 12th, 2024 at 12:02 pm
#24 was always my favorite CB…and DB until AW came along. Wish him all the best. We could not sustain having that much wrapped in 2 CB’s. Hope we get an edge rusher for that cash, but I highly doubt it…..
March 12th, 2024 at 12:04 pm
@jarrett
Missing 42 out of 98 career games is not the definition of “stability”
I’m not hating on CDIII, just stating facts that it’s not the end of the world that he’s gone and glad we got a 3rd for him.
March 12th, 2024 at 12:14 pm
Did you look up passes defended and passer rating against him when he was defending a receiver. Or even TDs allowe compared to other DB’s because really those seem more important than the ones you mentioned.
March 12th, 2024 at 12:18 pm
Really?!?
I thought we were all more or less friends here.
You had to bring up Venon Hargreaves? I just Ate a lil while ago! Now, Im nauseaus!
I had just about erased him from my memory.
I was losing my mind during that draft. I was speed posting how Heagreaves an Noah Spence would both be flops! Ugh. They were wirse than I thought. And I thought they would SUCK.
Carlton Davis is a great CB. But as many have posted, he was much better in a man defense.
But he idid play hard until last year. Thank you Mr. Davis.
Always think its weird. We exclusively draft tall physical CBs, suited to man coverage. But primarily play a Zone defense.
Then again, Hall and Kancey are both 4-3 linemen. They are undersized for a 3-4.
Buuut, we play a 3-4.
We were trying to stop the pass with great CBs and Safeties. That experiment failed.
I hope this means we will stop the Pass, by relentlessly pressuring the QB.
Thats the defense Todd Bowles loves. Its the Defense I love.
If you remember our Superbowl win. Pat Mahommes sure HATED THAT DEFENSE!
A great pass rush doesnt require great Cbs.
I think Zion and Izien, along with Dean(Meybe), can get the job done.
Again, Josh Hayes is one of 3 first year players to watch.
Now- lets spend Davis money, and go get a pass rusher
March 12th, 2024 at 12:24 pm
I understand the compensatory pick system differently. It has nothing to do with what round a player was drafted. It is based upon a formula of how many quality players you lost during a free agent period compared to how many value free agents you signed.
So, if we lost Davis in 2024 and signed someone with similar “value” during the 2024 free agent period, there would be no compensatory pick. However, if the NFL deemed we lost value, we might pick up a 3rd, 4th or 6th round pick or two. But in Carlton Davis case, that pick would not come until the year after if at all. So best we could have done was a 3rd rounder in 2025.
March 12th, 2024 at 12:24 pm
Geno,
What good are those ratings if he only plays in roughly 50% of the games?
Full time salary, part time player. And only then when he felt like it.
March 12th, 2024 at 12:37 pm
Thanks for the SB Carlton. Good luck.
March 12th, 2024 at 12:39 pm
I am always confused by the complaints about the Bucs running zone defense. There are at least 5 or 6 types of zone defense.
Who are these teams that fans are comparing the Bucs to that run man coverage?
The base defense for all 32 NFL teams is zone. Since 2020, NFL teams as a whole run some type of zone on over 2/3 of their play calls. Yes, over 2/3 of the time.
On top of that Bowles, had a top-three rate of high box counts of disguising his defense since that time. It worked effectively many times in the past and our defense really has not given up a lot of points since Bowles has been here. Which seems to be the number 1 stat when evaluating a defense.
March 12th, 2024 at 12:41 pm
Kool-Aid McKinstry at pick 26! He could become CB1 in his first season. The edge rush talent available at 26 or later is more likely to produce the next JTS than TJ Watt. I think Kool-Aid is a slam dunk! Then we sign Kamren Curl or Jordan Whitehead at safety, and our secondary will be greatly improved regardless of the addition of an edge rusher.
March 12th, 2024 at 12:45 pm
JMark.
I am ok with Davis going and feel fine with you or Eliot pointing out how many games he missed. I did not think it was 50 percent of the games.
And I felt the other stats mentioned by Eliot were less important.
Profootball Reference shows that he has played 76 of a possible 102 games, so that is closer to 75% for his career than 50%.
March 12th, 2024 at 12:50 pm
Right now I have them Chop Robinson Caelon Carson Sedrick Van Pran Cedric Gray & Dewayne Carter as their first couple of picks in the first three rounds. I’m sure some will disagree.
March 12th, 2024 at 1:04 pm
Joe not sure you’ll read this but didn’t Licht say that we needed a better pass rush in Vegas ?
March 12th, 2024 at 1:07 pm
A Jackson Powers-Johnson & T.J. Tampa Draft would sure be a HOMERUN. I am ALL FOR trading-up to get ‘your guy’ when you believe in him… Quality over Quantity ANY DAY.
March 12th, 2024 at 1:29 pm
I wish Carlton well. Wish he could’ve stayed healthy more.
We’re set for a Cooper Dejean now. Im seeing Powers going late teens early 20’s in mocks lately, so we’ll have to look at other Centers i guess.
March 12th, 2024 at 1:29 pm
This was a boss play by Licht. While we are on the subject of what makes sense: Winston is signing with the Browns. Browns is as Browns does. Hilarious.
March 12th, 2024 at 2:03 pm
Licht got a third round pick back for an overpriced corner who can’t stay healthy, is bad in zone, is on the last year of his deal and has never been much of a playmaker. On any other planet this would be an insane W. So of course the Joes are confused.
March 12th, 2024 at 2:27 pm
@MelvinJunior
I doubt Jackson gets passed Philadelphia. Especially now if Jason is gonna retire. Either way even if he did come back it would still make sense to take him because Jason would probably only be playing for like another year or two.
March 12th, 2024 at 2:43 pm
Surely this is the year the Bucs realize they need a second Edge Rusher and RB2
March 12th, 2024 at 3:04 pm
Tony Says:
March 12th, 2024 at 2:27 pm
@MelvinJunior
I doubt Jackson gets passed Philadelphia.
50/50. Eagles just resigned Landon Dickerson to his 2nd contract. Dickerson was a Center for much of his college career and many Eagles fans and media seem to think that he may move back to center now that Kelce has retired.
I have a feeling it will be much like Wirfs for us this past year when we were hedging on whether or not he would move from right tackle to left tackle.
i.e. Philly will wait until after the draft to see who they have in the room to decide whether Dickerson will be their center or guard.
March 12th, 2024 at 3:06 pm
Joe – you get scared of so many things always based purely just buccaneers history. That is not the only barometer but having so much money tied up in a secondary just is not good. The whole point of coaching and general managers is to evaluate the talent you have to see if it can hold up. this may be wrong but clearly the team is evaluating what they need to do. We didnt have a pro bowl corner and won a super bowl but ohhh history says that we needed to!
Maybe past regimes were HOPING but the whole point of coaching and managers is to assess what we have and who can take the next step. were we just HOPING tristan wirfs would be a solid right tackle to help us win a super bowl? it is a fine line but quit panicking over this. the team will figure it out and the whole basis of “hey we almost made it to the NFC championship game” is also useless. the nfl changes every year, heck every month. it is a very fluid game so just because something happened before, there is no guarantee it happens again.
March 12th, 2024 at 4:45 pm
Capt. Tim
If you will recall, KC was without BOTH starting tackles.
If KC receivers had caught the balls that hit them in the hands that game, KC might very well have won.
March 12th, 2024 at 5:23 pm
Tony I say the Bucs pick none of your pics.
March 12th, 2024 at 6:40 pm
@Woodenman
HA HA HA HA!
March 12th, 2024 at 7:52 pm
Good corner but how many INTs did he have? I venture to say way less than most starting corners.
March 12th, 2024 at 8:25 pm
Love all you guys whining about lack of Int’s. But when our #1 CB shuts down the other guys WR #1, that’s a big deal. Injuries got Davis traded, not lack of Int’s.
March 12th, 2024 at 8:47 pm
Jmark.
Nope, your memory fails you. They had one starting tackle, they just moved him to a different position on the line.
An odd choice, but their choice none the less.
Thry were missing one starting offensive linemen, exactly like we were.
Although nobody cried over our missing man
And if WRs didnt drop passes, we’d have been in the SuperBowl THIS YEAR.
No one had worse jelly fingers than our guys
March 12th, 2024 at 9:06 pm
Last sunset for him! Put your boots on boy
March 12th, 2024 at 11:13 pm
Should have tried to trade Dean
March 13th, 2024 at 7:28 am
“you can’t become a champion by sifting through the bargain bin to buy a quarterback or an edge rusher.”
The Bucs won a Superbowl after pulling Shaq Barrett out of the bargain bin.
You cover a team that sent 3 QBs to the bargain bin, (Young, Williams, Dilfer,) who grabbed a total of 5 SB rings after being shown the door at Onebucplace.
Hack.