Need For Edge Rusher Now Dire
March 12th, 2024
Joe is having terrible flashbacks.
Remember how much fun it was in the depths of the Lost Decade when the Bucs didn’t have an edge rush, but they made up for it by not covering anyone? Yeah, Joe is having those nightmare flashbacks right now.
Before Bucs AC/DC-loving general manager Jason Licht stole traded for Jason Pierre-Paul and drafted Carlton Davis (and hired a competent coaching staff), the Bucs defense was beyond frightening. It was a weekly horror show that not even Freddie Krueger could stomach.
The Bucs had no pass rush. Just none. If the Bucs did get pressure it was more likely because an offensive lineman tripped.
And then there was the pass coverage, if that’s what you want to call it. Robert McClain and Vernon Hargreaves and Chris Conte ran around like chickens running for cover from a fox (and Hargreaves delivered his patented baseball umpire safe sign whenever a quarterback threw the ball 10 yards out of bounds).
The likes of Julio Jones and Michael Thomas and Christian McCaffrey ran through the Bucs secondary like proverbial deer through an Illinois cornfield.
It was a nightmare. An absolute nightmare.
Late yesterday the Bucs shipped off their No. 1 corner, Carlton Davis. Yeah, Bucs fans liked to rag on him. But dang if he didn’t often lock up opponents’ No. 1 receivers. Davis may not have been a Pro Bowler was he was good enough to often take out a team’s best pass-catcher.
Now he’s gone and it appears the Bucs have a big hole at corner. Can Zyon McCollum replace Davis? That remains to be seen. Joe isn’t saying McCollum can’t, but as always, Joe would like to see him do it first. Joe’s a burning bush kinda guy that way.
Until you have proven it, you haven’t.
So here the Bucs are hoping a rookie who had 7.5 sacks last year turns the corner and becomes the next JPP. Hey, Joe really likes YaYa Diaby and is pulling for him. Here again, Joe would like to see it first. Why is that such an awful thing?
So in Joe’s mind, the Bucs are back to the Lost Decade on defense except they have better coaching. No proven edge rush, but ample hope. You know the kind, go to Hooters for wings and a couple of beers and hope you leave with a special friend for the night?
Defensive ends can be had. Danielle Hunter is out there for the taking. Haason Reddick can be had for about the same price Licht stole JPP from the Giants. And if winning trumps the salary cap, the Chargers have a pair of edge rushers they are trying to dump.
So what do the Bucs do, hope the Tooth Fairy comes along and delivers a present in the Hope Chest with another Shaq Barrett, a backup who blows up with 19.5 sacks (Joe would settle for 11)? Or do the Bucs be proactive go get a guy who has proven he can get the job done?
There is no reason the Bucs have to turn the page back to the dark Mike Smith Error.
March 12th, 2024 at 3:57 am
Edge rush and LB if we lose David (we wont)….but yeah, a lot of need there and little to spend. I guess look to the draft….Jeremiah Trotter jr…his dad knows us 🙂
March 12th, 2024 at 3:58 am
I’ve seen many Bucs fans who say “Just draft Chop Robinson”, who had LESS sacks than JTS had last year, IN COLLEGE. I want to see Jason Licht pull off another JPP-type heist for an experienced edge rusher, if possible. Carolina only got a 2nd and a 5th for Brian Burns.
March 12th, 2024 at 4:09 am
Carlton missed almost a season ( 16 ) worth of games the last few years, so the hole was there already a large part of the time.
How long until Dean suddenly is gone?
Keep missing game Dean, and you will follow Carlton out the door too.
This secondary has just not come near living up to their contracts, and that is an under statement to say the least.
For those who back these players, I just do not care about particular players as far a fan favorites. I have watched this team since the 1st preseason game in LA in 1976, so I am long past caring about certain players other than winning or losing.
All the articles about a player, may be enjoyable while reading, but means absolutely nothing to me, if it only equals losing on Sunday. Sorry I have seen so many good stories only to watch the Bucs get beat down on gameday
BTW What is the over under on games missed by Carlton next year? 2-3 at least? We will see. See ya!!! Carlton
March 12th, 2024 at 4:43 am
The top Edge FAs are getting deals quickly. We need definitily help in the pass rush but i dont see getting a difference maker now with what is being left.
Looks like we must find a gem in the Draf or a trade (less likely). But we certainly need pass rush and now Corner help.
I think many Bucs fans underestimated Davis contribution. I know injuries and some times inconistent play (not much bad games though) was frustrating but Davis was a good Corner. McCollum will get his chance but we cant be certain that he will develop. Maybe maybe not.
Go Bucs
March 12th, 2024 at 4:58 am
Draft, free agency and pray.
March 12th, 2024 at 5:02 am
Bowles always engineers sacks.
R-E-L-A-X 😉
Go Bucs!!!
March 12th, 2024 at 5:15 am
I feel it was a bad call shipping Davis out. A Proven stud and our number freaking One corner. It just isn’t sitting right with me and I’m having the same gut wrenching feeling Joe is having about it.
It just feels like a sketchy move at a critical junction. Saving six million doesn’t seem worth what we just gave up. I’ve got that “a hand full of beans” for our cow feeling…
Obviously I don’t know the thinking behind this other than the little bit of money. I mean it wasn’t just one of our top 2 corners we put up for sale. IT WAS BOTH! Which tells me it’s All About the Money. I just feel like we’re the ones on the losing side of the jjp type deal this time…
I’m still betting on Jason Licht to be getting it right and wiser than all of Us chickens with butterfly stomachs…
We will most definitely see….
March 12th, 2024 at 5:17 am
EternalSon,
Yes he does but he does not always engineers pressure. We have seen in many games the opposing QB has all the time he wants to pick us apart. Like the Detroit game. You can have a game with 2 or 3 sacks but if you dont pressure in the other 30 pass plays you will get toasted.
March 12th, 2024 at 5:25 am
Davis wasn’t a favorite because he doesn’t have a nose for the ball. But he can shut down #1 WR’s. I would have liked to see an extension with lots of incentives for games played, etc. Detroit got a CB #1 for a RD #3 pick.
March 12th, 2024 at 5:53 am
Bowles is too good of a defensive mind to not a figure out a way to generate pressure, but that being said, if we don’t see a serious improvement on that left side, we will continue to lose to better football teams that figure out the blitz.
We need to be able to rush 4 with consistent pressure. We star pulling in both OLBs and this defense will die by a thousand cuts. It’s why we don’t match up well against Dallas, 49ers, teams that are good scheming against blitzing.
If we weren’t going to make a serious splash in free agency, why the hell did we get rid of Shaq? He wasn’t going to count much against the cap, so I read, and he holds the edge better than JTS. I hope this coaching staff doesn’t think we’re ok with JTS starting and us figuring out a solution in the draft. This will be bad.
March 12th, 2024 at 5:54 am
Some bad memories there, Joe. Thank you for the highlights and putting it together seamlessly. Going for proactive here.
March 12th, 2024 at 5:56 am
Joe … ‘No proven edge rush, but ample hope. You know the kind, go to Hooters for wings and a couple of beers and hope you leave with a special friend for the night?’
Now THAT’S a practical definition of HOPE Joe. Well, unless of course the ‘special friend’ with the name Taylor turns out to be the wrong sex later in the evening. Scary times we live in.
When it comes to certain positions (like DE/OLB) it’s always preferred IMO to know what you’re getting. Thus signing a JPP (or a Brian Burns) relatively early in their career but after they’ve shown what they can do is preferred. But it’s also very costly as we’ve seen. Not sure after the contracts we’ve just done how much we can afford to pay for a proven DE/OLB to complement Diaby.
What I do believe is that it takes a quality, well-coached & well-led defense to succeed, not just a couple of very talented DLinemen. Back in 2020 for instance, Bucs generated 48 sacks on the season. FOUR players contributed 70% of those: JPP (9.5), Devin White (9), Shaq (8), Suh (6). With those guys, Bucs were able to create pressure from both the INSIDE & the OUTSIDE. Well, all 4 of them are now gone, but Todd Bowles has shown that he’s creative enough to create good pressure from anywhere along the Front. We’ve still got Vea and we’ve now got both Diaby AND Kancey, both of whom show excellent POTENTIAL. But you’re exactly right, we NEED at least 1 more beast upfront (preferably 2 if you include an ILB replacement for Devin White who’s an effective sack-master).
March 12th, 2024 at 6:27 am
I am sure the Bucs have a plan they are sure of. They didn’t bring back Evans and Mayfield and then go out cripple the defense, that make no sense If not in house, I think a quality CB is on Lichts radar
March 12th, 2024 at 6:28 am
Edge rush and interior OL need to be upgraded for this team to take a step forward.
March 12th, 2024 at 6:32 am
I remember the lost decade welll, which is why I’m not ready to put Jason licht in the ring of honor. Our defense is going to be ugly next year.
March 12th, 2024 at 6:38 am
Everyone who spent this past season calling for Bowles’s head need to re-read this. This defense is light years ahead of where we were and we’re always competitive because we have one of the best defensive minds in the game as our head coach.
I’m not worried. We were heading into last year with more holes and question marks than today. Licht will find a mixture of value free agents and draft picks to field a good team. Maybe with this cap space a bigger name or trade.
March 12th, 2024 at 6:46 am
Chase Young I sure would he would take a one year deal with incentives then draft an edge rusher in 2nd or 3rd round. Best corner available at #26.
March 12th, 2024 at 6:57 am
Agree with Popcorn Mike, westernbuc, and others. Jason Licht most likely has a plan in his back pocket.
March 12th, 2024 at 7:01 am
Not a huge Davis fan, he was too inconsistent. Fantastic one week and the next he played like he couldn’t care less. With that said, he was our best corner and it would have been nice to have a proven replacement before moving on.
March 12th, 2024 at 7:02 am
Draft
March 12th, 2024 at 7:21 am
Bucs were tied for 7th in sacks last year. Are we really going to wet the bed over this already?
Shaq Barrett, bless his heart, was a shell of himself last year.
Diaby won’t be the catalyst to this team getting sacks in the years to come. Kancey will be that guy.
March 12th, 2024 at 7:25 am
Bucs need a dawg. I like Khalil Mack or Hunter. LFG!
March 12th, 2024 at 7:27 am
Buckeyebuck – it would be nice to fill atleast this hole before the draft. Licht’s track record with offensive lineman much better than pass rushers. Not to mention how crazy the guard contracts are in free agency, I’d rather chill at that position and attack the pass rush right now
March 12th, 2024 at 7:28 am
Well, better to get a 3rd this year then nothing after he walks next. Plus, ALL of his future $$ (dead $, etc) goes with him.
This is getting the cap right and getting something for a guy you know you’re not re-signing.
Thet developed a lot of backup help last year. Zyon really progressed with Izien making strides.
Our biggest need on defense is still pass rush and resign David.
Shaq may still come back at a discount, 2nd level free agent and draft one.
March 12th, 2024 at 7:29 am
Gotbbucs – Bucs had the team sacks but it came at the expense of big yardage lost. Bowles constantly had to file up the blitz and has been on record saying he was unsatisfied with his 4 man rush. Kancey and Diaby are fantastic players! But yeah the Bucs need one more outside DOGE
March 12th, 2024 at 7:47 am
Well zyon did prove it he played well all year long
March 12th, 2024 at 7:47 am
Particular set of skills … ‘better to get a 3rd this year then nothing after he walks next. Plus, ALL of his future $$ (dead $, etc) goes with him.’
That’s what I had thought, but according to Spotrac … ‘With a trade, the future guarantees would simply transfer to the new team, leaving behind just the unallocated bonus cap as the current team’s dead cap.’
So in Davis’ case we’d eat some (for ‘kicking the guarantees can down the street the past 2 years of his contract) and the Lions would eat some (Carlton’s guaranteed $$$ for this year). Makes sense I guess.
March 12th, 2024 at 7:52 am
You guys forget.
We got Davis and Dean in the 2nd and 3rd round.
MJ Stewart, Jordan Whitehead, Edwards, and SMB are still in the NFL!
Bowles may just have the best eye for DB’s in the NFL.
And Bowles may just be the best in the NFL at developing DB’s.
Winfield was taken in the 2nd round. He’s an All-Pro.
Zyon was a 5th round pick. And he will be our CB #2 next year.
In Bowles, I trust!
March 12th, 2024 at 8:03 am
Last season I got tired of seeing opposing QB’s leaving games against the Bucs just like they were starting them..uniforms clean as hell. And to think we won 9 games with no upfront pressure at all. We gotta find a Bonafide pass rush from somewhere. Lets take Chop Chop Robinson in the 1st round if he is still there and bring in another free agent. No pass rush? Very few wins.
March 12th, 2024 at 8:05 am
Particular set of skills Says:
“Well, better to get a 3rd this year then nothing after he walks next.”
I think thats the bottom line. If the offer was only a 5th rd pick – then Davis would probably still be here. But that extra 3rd rd pick (even though we gave up two 6ths) was just too tempting.
Hopefully Licht turns that pick into a starting Guard or somesuch. Or perhaps draft a replacement for Davis with that pick who was also a late 3rd rd selection (as was Dean).
Our CB room had gotten too expensive and an adjustment/reset was needed so now its done.
Quite a few good CBs will be available in the 2nd and 3rd rounds this year…..
March 12th, 2024 at 8:07 am
My bad – Davis was a late 2nd round pick. Dean was 3rd rd – 2 spots above the pick we just received for trading Davis.
March 12th, 2024 at 8:09 am
Keep beating that drum, Joe. It’s in every article.
March 12th, 2024 at 8:13 am
Ko Kiefer … Agree 100% with your analysis. Bowles’ defenses here have been incredibly consistent in terms of the number of sacks generated, despite some significant changes in personnel.
o 2019: 47 sacks (tied for #7 in NFL)
o 2020: 48 sacks (#4 in NFL)
o 2021: 47 sacks (#7 in NFL)
o 2022: 45 sacks (tied for #7 in NFL)
o 2023: 48 sacks (tied for #7 in NFL)
As most of us have already seen, the Bucs blitzing percentages were relatively consistent over those same 5 years with Todd as our DC (although I suspect there was a big change in tactics in 2022 because of losing both Suh & JPP after 2021) …
o 2019: 43.4% blitzing (#2 in NFL)
o 2020: 39.0% blitzing (#5 in NFL)
o 2021: 45.4% blitzing (#1 in NFL)
o 2022: 28.3% blitzing (#10 in NFL)
o 2023: 40.1% blitzing (#3 in NFL)
Obviously he’d love more DLine pass rushers (who wouldn’t?), but Bowles seems to find ways to adjust. Still, I’m wondering if losing both Shaq AND White this year will generate another major change in tactics. Hopefully we add some comparable TALENT before training camp to compensate for their loss. Adding a quality starter-capable DE/OLB or a beastly middle LB and oh ya, Jordan Whitehead back at Safety would be a nice start.
March 12th, 2024 at 8:17 am
Laiatu Latu would be perfect in this Defense. He can pass rush and he can cover.
March 12th, 2024 at 8:26 am
teacherman 777 … It’s humorous to me how Jason Licht gets all the credit for draft picks and re-signings, yet hardly anyone ever mentions what went into identifying those fits. No doubt in my mind that Todd Bowles was the one who identified those defensive draft picks in 2019 (White, SMB, Dean, Edwards, Nelson) because they had skill-sets that perfectly fit what he wanted to create defensively when he came on-board as DC that year. Then he quickly developed them into a Top-10 defense within a year, good enough to get us the Super Bowl in 2020. THAT impressed me.
Of course it didn’t hurt that he had some incredible veterans to work with and provide leadership … LVD, Suh, JPP, Shaq for starters. Add in Whitehead, Davis, Vea then Winfield and that’s an impressive starting group. We’re just in Year-2 of transitioning to a new starting group IMO, but I like what I’m seeing thus far.
March 12th, 2024 at 8:37 am
Davis usually DID shut down the opposing #1 receiver, unless we were in zone, at which point the opposing QB and receivers were just playing catch
March 12th, 2024 at 8:43 am
🙂
March 12th, 2024 at 8:48 am
Defense Rule.
Personally, I give more credit to Licht on the draft picks than Bowles.
It probably is a bias from when I watched the 2016, All or Nothing, Training Camp with the Arizona Cardinals. So, my reaction really was more to how little it seemed that Bruce Arians knew about the draft picks, not Todd Bowles.
March 12th, 2024 at 8:59 am
Joe in Michigan, keep in mind that good drafting can turn out guys with much better pro careers. For example, Danielle Hunter had very few sacks in college, less than chop Robinson I believe. And he blossomed in the NFL. Granted, he wasn’t a first round pick and therein lies the difference.
March 12th, 2024 at 9:04 am
Licht has a plan. I think it includes an extension of Godwin, restructure or extension of Vea, new contracts for Wirfs and Winfield which is about to give the Bucs major cap space. Currently we are sitting around $10M in cap space. The release of Gage will give us about $6M in cap space. So that puts us at $16M, once we get the above contracts done my guess is we will have well north of $20M in cap space maybe even north of $30M.
Rookie contracts will be more than covered with the post June 1st release of Shaq and Ryan Jensen.
March 12th, 2024 at 9:27 am
I look at the current roster make-up & see a big DEF draft coming…
Both primary starting ILB’s are FA, Licht just traded a starting CB, cut the shell of himself sack king OLB…JTS only looks good getting off the bus, Vea is a 50% player, Hall is basically a 90% no-show & Kancey/Yaya are works in progress.
Looks like the FO will hard pressed to get LVD back in the fold & then rolling the dice on 2nd tier FA’s…While hoping they hit on 3-4 in the draft.
March 12th, 2024 at 10:24 am
@Ko Kiefer
I agree. I want more pass rushers like everyone does. I’m just not ready to have a brain aneurysm over it at the start of every single years free agency period like Joe does.
March 12th, 2024 at 11:01 am
Fake news. Not very many “lockdowns “ in his career and last year Amon-Ra St. Brown creamsicle game was one of them. Plus he wasn’t always on the field because of injury. He’s no lockdown corner
March 12th, 2024 at 11:48 am
Here we go with the JBF comment page looking for another issue to freak out about. First it was Mike then we settled that, then it’s Baker and we’ve put that to bed, now it’s a freak out about CDIII going to the lions. Think about it, did the front office do this without a plan in place? Highly unlikely. These guys and gals know wtf they are doing. I’m not sweating the small stuff, draft well and pick up a dude or two in FA and we are fine and all these miss Nancies can start worrying about some other minute detail instead of think for a moment at our state of the union.
March 12th, 2024 at 11:54 am
But we still have Plan9 from Outer Space
March 12th, 2024 at 12:43 pm
Bowles is a defensive mind that generates his rush through playcalling. Not sure why that has not sunken in after his tenure here. Pass rushers are almost as difficult to find as starting quarterbacks for this franchise. Its a scoring league. Its 2024 not 1994. This team won their division and a playoff game with no pass rush and no rushing attack. Let Bowles cook. His one true calling card is that he brings the heat regardless of personnel.
March 12th, 2024 at 12:52 pm
Cooper Dejean in the 1st
Adisa Isaac in the 2nd
Problem solved.
March 12th, 2024 at 2:52 pm
The word I heard
Inside word indeed
Carlton would still be a Buc
If he could give up the weed…
Not sure if it’s true
But a birdie says it is
I don’t think he is lying
But a Lion, Davis is