“Bold” Move?
February 24th, 2024
Crazy talk.
A four-letter word springs to Joe’s mind with this suggestion. And “bold” isn’t exactly it.
So before Joe gets rolling, let Joe be very upfront and clear: Joe really, really respects and likes the work of Aaron Schatz, the founder of Football Outsiders (RIP) and inventor of DVOA. And Joe has told this to Schatz personally a few times, most recently during Super Bowl Week in Las Vegas.
There is a reason Schatz votes for AP football awards. He is very, very good at what he does. And Joe really appreciates that a stat guy isn’t a slave to stats. Schatz is open-minded and Joe finds that to be one of the greatest traits an analyst can have.
However, we all hit a foul ball sometimes. And this foul ball by Schatz (albeit creative) was a wicked line drive into the seats full of fans.
Schatz, typing for BSPN, believes the Bucs should be “bold” and should forget about Baker Mayfield and trade for Justin Fields? Good grief!
But that’s exactly what Schatz advocated for the Bucs to do a as “bold” move.
Trade for QB Fields
What’s good for the goose is good for the gander — or rather, what’s good for the Falcons is good for the Buccaneers. Sure, Tampa Bay could bring Baker Mayfield back at quarterback for a reasonable price. Last season, Mayfield had his best season since his rookie campaign in 2018. But how much do you trust that Mayfield will be able to repeat that season in 2024, especially if Evans departs in free agency? And do the Bucs feel like they’re ready to build around Mayfield for the future?Instead, what if the Buccaneers went with the player who still has the higher ceiling but also the higher floor? Trade for Fields and see if you can put him in a situation to succeed, just as you did with Mayfield last season. If you can unlock the talent, there’s so much promise for the future. If you can’t unlock the talent, well, you were probably going to need to get a new quarterback after a couple of years of Mayfield anyway.
So let Joe get this straight: The Bucs were a timeout and two plays from overtime in a divisional game and instead the Bucs should rid themselves of the quarterback who got them there? And since a divisional foe that failed to make the playoffs is going for a runaround quarterback with pitiful numbers, the Bucs should go get that same guy instead?
Nothing like successful teams trying to copy non-playoff teams.
Sure, Fields ***may*** have more upside than Mayfield (Mayfield’s upside is pretty damn good) but don’t you have to ask yourself if Fields was any good why would the Bears want to wash their hands of him?
Yeah, the Bears are inept, but aren’t they in the position they are in because of Fields in some way? Don’t cha think?
Would Fields be better throwing to Mike Evans and Chris Godwin and Rachaad White? Good bet he would. But better than what Mayfield just did for the Bucs last year? That’s sort of a stretch.
Fields have never thrown for 2,600 yards in a season and the Bucs, a four-time playoff team and three-time division winner built to win now, should give up a quarterback who just led them to a heartbeat of an NFC title game?
Foul ball!
February 24th, 2024 at 11:41 am
Fields is Zach Wilson with legs, will never be anything more
February 24th, 2024 at 12:03 pm
I surely agree with Joe. I see NO reasons to get rid of Baker. We held on to Winston with much lower accomplishments.
February 24th, 2024 at 12:04 pm
Not much on trades , free agents and draft choices yes, trades , not so much, most of the time you just end up trading your problems for someone else’s.
February 24th, 2024 at 12:12 pm
Maybefield didn’t “Lead” the team anywhere, he just rode the great talent around him all the way to the playoffs.
February 24th, 2024 at 12:13 pm
I would rather have Baker back on a reasonable 3 year deal.
Plus – I don’t want to spend our 1st round pick (maybe more) on J. Fields.
I am curious to see what Chicago gets in compensation for him. If Baker leaves Tampa then it might be worth re-visiting the idea but I wouldn’t give up more than a 3rd round pick.
February 24th, 2024 at 12:21 pm
Schatz would fit in very well with the goofy group of anti Baker bloggers on this website. He has no idea what Baker’s future will look like. Here is what is know: Baker has an elite arm, a strong competitive streak, and great leadership skills. Baker also has never had a stable head coach or OC environment. Notwithstanding all of this Baker has the highest QR playoff rating of any QB in Tampa Bay history.
February 24th, 2024 at 12:23 pm
No way the Bucs are going to trade for Fields. Too much on the plate with our own players to entertain a major trade.
I think most teams that are in need of a QB would shy on betting the farm on Baker Mayfield. Same with the Bucs, I don’t see Bucs spending more than $25 mil per season. If I were a betting man, the Bucs will offer Mayfield somewhere in the neighborhood of $75 mil for three years with the first two years guaranteed.
February 24th, 2024 at 12:24 pm
“…but don’t you have to ask yourself if Fields was any good why would the Bears want to wash their hands of him?”
Browns and Panthers washed their hands of Baker, and the Bucs gave him what he needed to succeed here. I kike Baker, but I also like this idea of trading for Fields.
February 24th, 2024 at 12:25 pm
Baker wasn’t a timeout away from the title game. He was a clutch drive away and choked. He’s a journeyman QB. The analysis is based on long short, high risk ideas… and in that context the author is correct. Fields has a higher upside and downside. That’s the point of the article. If Fields gets right with good coaching and talent around him, look out. If not, so what… you weren’t going to win a ring with Baker anyway.
February 24th, 2024 at 12:25 pm
Why would you trade for Fields when you have KYLE TRASK waiting for an opportunity?
February 24th, 2024 at 12:26 pm
Long shot* … need edit button.
February 24th, 2024 at 12:27 pm
@ Alabama
That deal sounds good to me – maybe add a few more million in incentives.
Geno Smith got a similar deal in Seattle recently.
February 24th, 2024 at 12:27 pm
Is it 4/1 already?
February 24th, 2024 at 12:27 pm
There’s probably a pretty close to zero chance of this happening.
February 24th, 2024 at 12:29 pm
LMAO… no.
Fields is a bust. Chicago has t done him any favors but the kid just isn’t it. Trading for him would be complete insanity. Mayfield at least had some good seasons in Cleveland. Fields can barely put together 2 good games a season.
February 24th, 2024 at 12:30 pm
1. No.
2. Fields is way better than you seem to think.
February 24th, 2024 at 12:31 pm
No way would spend a 1st round pick let alone more for Fields. Rather run with Trask or Wolford.
February 24th, 2024 at 12:32 pm
It is definetly not a bad idea. Everybody is saying what a great season Baker had, can you look at the regular season please? He was less than average. I know he was very good in playoffs, but are you going to give him 100 million for 3 years, based on 2 to 4 good games? ( see Daniel Jones) Fields has not been great, but did he had the weapons Baker had?
February 24th, 2024 at 12:33 pm
They could trade Trask. Then the Bears will win the SB with Trask at QB. Another Buc routine Par.
February 24th, 2024 at 12:49 pm
Fields’ best season was ’22, 17 td’s 11 picks, 2200 yards, sacked 55 times, barely made 60% complete rate. Yeah, I can totally see why we’d want that
February 24th, 2024 at 12:51 pm
Fields mental processing of coverages is probably the worst in the NFL.
He has elite running ability and a big arm.
Lots of ways to win in the NFL, so I think you could win with Fields.
However, typically if you have a guy with slow processing time in reading coverages you better have one of the two or three best offensive lines in the league. We don’t.
Let some other team be the 2nd team to gamble on Fields.
February 24th, 2024 at 1:09 pm
If the Bucs really believe Baker is the guy they would be looking to sign him to a 5 year deal, instead of a 3 year deal like even the Baker fans seem to think they’ll offer. We talk about the yearly salary, but never mention length of the contract. That could be the real sticking point to getting Baker signed. He’s only 29, a 5 year deal would make more sense if he’s ” the guy”. More years, more guaranteed money is what I’d want if I was Baker. Three year deal the Bucs can get out of after two is not exactly saying you’re our franchise QB. Soon we’ll see.
February 24th, 2024 at 1:11 pm
We weren’t even smart enough to call a timeout
February 24th, 2024 at 1:14 pm
Fields is an “option” that quite a few teams may pursue. And perhaps he will have success wherever he winds up because the young man DOES have God given athletic talents that few possess.
BUT – IMO no matter how in-vogue these “runaround” QBs continue to be for some reason – the best NFL QBs will always be the ones who can drop back 5 steps, process what they see quickly and fire the ball out of there to whichever receiver has the best chance of making a play…
Yes, a degree of “mobility” is highly desired and somewhat mandatory – but it doesn’t have to include the ability to escape the pocket, avoid tacklers and run for 20 yards.
Many of the greatest QBs to have played the game were not considered “mobile” at all… but most all of them had – even with eyes still down the field – an innate sense of when defensive pressure was getting too close and the ability to step up, slide left or slide right just enough to buy time for a receiver to come open – and then get the pass off to them.
The Bucs are almost certainly not going to find a better “option” at QB than Baker Mayfield any time soon. Not for this head coach and this system that we just had a winning season with and hired an OC for in the name of continuity… All while handicapped with major salary cap debt and the financial need to field 13 rookies….
Its a nearly perfect pairing actually.
Mayfield now has a large body of experience in the NFL (literally from the ‘school of hard knocks’) and at the primish age of 28 Baker has finally found a ‘home’ where he can be himself, feel supported, feel respected and has great relationships with his teammates and coaches.
Thats hard to find and I think both Baker and the Buccaneers know it.
So all involved will likely act accordingly in the end and get Mayfield signed with the Bucs to a 3 or 4 year deal worth about $30M per with achievable incentives on top of that.
Let’s Flucking GOOOOOO!
Sign Mayfield, then sign Evans for about $24M per for 3 years. Get McLaughlin under contract for 3 years at about $4M per. Work out a 6 year $100M deal with Winfield Jr and lastly, give LD54 a raise – $6M with incentives for 1 year.
All of this is achievable if everyone wants to be here which I think they all do and everyone involved is willing to consider this team’s financial circumstances and negotiate in good faith.
February 24th, 2024 at 1:33 pm
Fields=Mayfield……..let’s try to find an Average to above average vet or draft one. Oh Don’t forget Mayfield threw a pick in the beginning and a pick to end our playoffs in that game. Don’t leave out the important parts of the journeys.
February 24th, 2024 at 1:38 pm
@Pickgrin – perfect summation.
February 24th, 2024 at 1:51 pm
I have hard time seeing the bears get a first round pick for Fields. If that’s what they want, I assume he’s on their roster for another year. And then you might be able to get him as a FA.
I’d tag Evans, sign AW to a long term deal, get LVD back and then see what the market is for Mayfield. If he goes elsewhere and we need to trade up to draft a QB then we should have some $$ left to sign an OLB. If we can sign Baker too then go OLB and oline in the first two rounds.
February 24th, 2024 at 1:54 pm
What a collossoal waste of time
Media and fans like to come up with these scenarios when its free agency and trade talk time. Problem?
GMs don’t wait till now to have ideas and plans. Their job is to have them before all of that comes around. Buc’s sorted through the options months ago. For the Baker Haters who want to entertain any other QB but Baker…….
Sorry this will go the same way your desires for Trask went – nowhere.
The Coen hire spells it out in Bold capital letters
Coen comes from the Mcvay camp which has no specialty in running Qbs but rather ones that effectively pass from behind the line most of the time. He is unlikely to be a Fleld’s qb Whisperer. The Bucs have no intention of getting Fields. IF they had that in their back pocket they wouldn’t have hired such a Baker centered OC.
2)
February 24th, 2024 at 2:04 pm
Since76 Says:
. Oh Don’t forget Mayfield threw a pick in the beginning and a pick to end our playoffs in that game
—-
Nope – we all saw the game even though some of us will lie about what was on tape.. Your boy Mike Evans threw that first pick. Ball came right out of his own two hands. He choked because he was hearing foot steps
Fact: Mike evans choked and cost us the game.
Second pick was bad but Dubious it cost us the game. Deep in our own terriory and under two minutes with only one time out plus needing to score 8 was always a long shot.
Mike’s choke was faaar worse.
February 24th, 2024 at 2:05 pm
“Since76 Says:
February 24th, 2024 at 1:33 pm
Fields=Mayfield……..let’s try to find an Average to above average vet or draft one.”
“During their 4-7 start, the Bucs averaged 19 points. During their 6-2 finish, the Bucs averaged 24 points as Mayfield threw 17 TD passes and only five interceptions. In two postseason matchups, he threw for a combined 686 yards and tossed three TD passes each game.”
Fields isn’t ANYthing without his ability to run
February 24th, 2024 at 2:12 pm
Paying a premium for Mayfield is a mistake, and I don’t think Licht will make that mistake. If he does come back, it will be on a favorable contract for the team. Mayfield will have turn down a bigger payday elsewhere to remain a Buc.
If negotiations stall, I would definitely count on Licht to find a bold and creative alternative. Fields would cost about 5 mil in salary next year, and probably a 2nd round pick. Sure, it might blow up in our faces. Let’s just draft another kicker instead.
February 24th, 2024 at 2:30 pm
I remember when the Bucs played the Bears. The guy with 6 Super Bowl rings studied his tablet with his OC or his backup QB between plays. The guy with zero rings sat by himself and pouted.
Let’s keep Baker, mmmmmkay?
February 24th, 2024 at 2:33 pm
There’s literally NOTHING Fields does better than BM, save run
February 24th, 2024 at 2:42 pm
Tony…..look at the tape …..Mayfield threw the ball so hard it popped out. That’s why Mayfield had so many drops. He doesn’t have touch. Yeah Evans did touch the ball but the ball wasn’t catchable. #loveblind…..
February 24th, 2024 at 2:54 pm
Trask brigade still living in fantasy land
February 24th, 2024 at 2:58 pm
For those who think Fields is a better option than Mayfield, this is from the Chicago Sun Time dated 12.21.23:
“Fields’ struggles start earlier in the fourth quarter. His 55.3 passer rating in the fourth quarter ranks 48th among all quarterbacks with at least 10 passes. Only two players have thrown more fourth-quarter interceptions than his five.”
Not 32nd where each team in the league has one better QB, 48th!
HARD PASS.
February 24th, 2024 at 3:49 pm
Since76 Says:
February 24th, 2024 at 2:42 pm
Tony…..look at the tape …..Mayfield threw the ball so hard it popped out.
—
🙂 Pure and utter nonsense and thats what marks you as nothing but a hater. Your analysis is always based on Baker hate not logic. Ball was VERY catchable to a professional receiver. I have seen the tape MULTIPLE times and every single commentator that covered that play said Evans should have had it.
It wasn’t even a one hand catch, He had two hands around it and bobbled it. Like one commentator put it I – beleive on FS1 – He was playing scared ( even though he did have enough space to catch and cover) .
The rest about his touch? Mike drops balls lofted into the air. You watch too much of The team to not know that so once again – just your hate speaking .
February 24th, 2024 at 3:52 pm
Crazy talk is right. Crazy talk. He would get hurt half the year in, and Trask would be the starter. But we might get lucky and we could just return to the Jameis interception numbers. Plus we would have no talent added in this years draft. I don’t know why anyone even half as bright as Jason Licht would consider such a move.
February 24th, 2024 at 4:39 pm
I’d rather have Baker back for a ‘reasonable price’ but if his salary demands get exorbitant, I think the Bucs should be willing to say ‘No thanks’ and look at other alternatives.
Bucs got into the playoffs last season with a 9-8 record; with Mayfield back that’s probably around what we’ll do this season (MAYBE a couple more wins IF everything goes really well in FA & the draft). That’s not exactly a team built to ‘win now’. We kinda stumbled to the playoffs, since New Orleans had the same record as us. And this season I expect Atlanta to be a lot better.
February 24th, 2024 at 4:44 pm
Just insane and thankfully would never happen!
Baker’s our guy for the foreseeable future and we are set at QB!
February 24th, 2024 at 5:08 pm
IDE rather have Mac jones than mayfield
Everyone forgets baker has reall only had 2 good seasons out of 6
And no matter what you think his play was average this year. How many games did he not decide to show up until late in the game. Yes the green bay game was his unicorn. He knew he wouldn’t get another shot to a payday. He plays with heart no question but still and always will be a flashy streaky.500 qb. Could be the best backup in the league
February 24th, 2024 at 5:13 pm
And for all that hate on Trask ( who has not been given the opportunity) in an interview with canales he said he wanted to start Trask over mayfield but Todd shot him down. Every qb coming out of college needs real game experience to see what they have. No one thought Purdy would be anything. Same thing for Brady. Hopefully Kyle moves on to greener pastures and can once and for all prove it or lose it. Obviously he’ll never get a opportunity with dumb Todd bowels
February 24th, 2024 at 5:15 pm
Joe why do you delete my comments when I only speak the truth
February 24th, 2024 at 5:46 pm
If this is true — Joe cannot find said article — this makes Todd Bowles look pretty smart. The Bucs were a heartbeat from going to the NFC championship with Mayfield. So is Canales trying to say Bowles cost the Bucs a Super Bowl appearance by not starting Trask?
Joe CONSTANTLY wrote there was no way Mayfield was not going to start unless Trask was so good that the Bucs couldn’t take him off the field. Bowles simply didn’t trust his career with Trask. Anyone who doesn’t have a blind Trask agenda could see this.
February 24th, 2024 at 5:50 pm
Would damn well bet Liam Coen could get the best out of Fields, and his price tag for 2yrs is less than the QB tag # for 2024 (that might need to be used to get Baker back)
February 24th, 2024 at 5:52 pm
Watch the film of the 2nd pick vs Detroit. Otten was clearly at least 3 yards too deep, behind the LBs (he’s supposed to be in front of them). I’ve run that play as a TE… the coaches ALWAYS stress being in FRONT of the LBs. Otten was almost on top of CG… within 2 yards. No coach EVER designs a pattern like that.
Should Baker have thrown it – probably not. But it was still on Otten.
February 24th, 2024 at 6:10 pm
catcard… Fields doesn’t read defenses very well, is often fooled in their adjustments, and doesn’t see the field that well. He has an average arm but is a good scrambler…until he has a few more injuries. It is nearly impossible to “get eough” out of a guy that doesn’t have the traits above the neck.
February 24th, 2024 at 6:49 pm
Bucsmarley Says:
Everyone forgets baker has really only had 2 good seasons out of 6
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Baker averaged 4,060 yards adjusted for games played over 4 out of his 6 seasons. As usual you are clueless and making up false facts.
JBF should be making serious money on funerals. After all these comments sections are where all real facts come to die.
February 24th, 2024 at 6:57 pm
Bucsmarley Says:
February 24th, 2024 at 5:13 pm
And for all that hate on Trask ( who has not been given the opportunity) in an interview with canales he said he wanted to start Trask over mayfield but Todd shot him down.
___
Unfortunately Vegas wouldn’t take the bet this is utterly false. They said they are into gambling not sure bets guaranteed to make me rich.
February 24th, 2024 at 7:05 pm
If Fields is truly a bust, he will hit the market without us giving up picks. Then we can sign him cheap as a backup.
I feel for Trask, but unfortunately, we still do not know what he is capable of. More insurance the better.
February 24th, 2024 at 7:07 pm
Bucsmarley Says:
February 24th, 2024 at 5:13 pm
And for all that hate on Trask ( who has not been given the opportunity) in an interview with canales he said he wanted to start Trask over mayfield but Todd shot him down. ”
Link it please.
February 24th, 2024 at 7:13 pm
Another slow day in NFL news..
February 24th, 2024 at 7:37 pm
Obviously a hypothetical
A lot would have to happen for this to seem plausible
Baker is so much better. He would have to not be here as the first thing that would have to happen before Fields is even thinkable
February 24th, 2024 at 7:41 pm
I’d give a 7th rounder for Fields. But he has to be a kick returner 1st play as a wide out and be an emergency QB. That guy is terrible as a QB who would give anything for him is beyond me.
February 24th, 2024 at 7:48 pm
I have a strange feeling that Mayfield and Todd Bowles will be the same as Ryan Fitzpatrick and Todd Bowles. Ryan Fitzpatrick had a good year they went 10-6 and the Jets fans were saying the same thing you guys are saying about Baker Mayfield and look what happened in New York the jets went 5-11 . So be careful what you wish for. If the over pay for Baker Mayfield I wouldn’t be mad at Baker at all get your money bro. But it will be bad for the bucs going forward. Next year if Baker plays bad all of your excuses ain’t going to mean nothing. Ain’t no body going to give him another pass especially the meadi they will be laughing at us saying the same thing they said about the bears and Mitchell Trbisky.
February 24th, 2024 at 8:23 pm
Okay Oneilbuc, you’ve weighed in on why the Bucs shouldn’t sign Baker Mayfield, out of fear of failure…Who’s your guy, then? Are you re-signing Jameis? Be honest, what’s your plan?
February 24th, 2024 at 8:24 pm
Oneilbuc,
For the benefit of anyone new to this site, you have been wrong about Mayfield all last season. You have zero credibility when it comes to Baker. What Mike Evans and real insiders know about Mayfield is that he has an elite arm and great leadership skills. If Mayfield comes back in 2024 with an improved O line and improved running game, he will be a top 8 NFL QB and get his team deep in the playoffs.
February 24th, 2024 at 9:15 pm
Terrible article Joe
February 24th, 2024 at 9:23 pm
Geez you have Tony Marks and Marky Mark.
Same guy?
All you say is FALSE!
People have an opinion and you shoot them down.
You CANT “talk” anyone into your “Opinion”.
I believe Bakers pass to Evans was too hard.
I believe the last pick was ALL on Baker.
Saying Im a HATER because I believe that is ridiculous.
I would take Baker back for 25 million in a Heart Beat.
But I DONT want him for 35 million. That’s it.
February 24th, 2024 at 9:55 pm
BillyBucco,
You are just misinformed. NFL receivers who can get their hands on a pass are supposed to catch it. Also, misinformed on last INT versus Detroit. Otton was supposed to be underneath Detroit zone defense (stay in front of linebackers) but he got too deep and almost ran into Godwin crossing route. Anyone looking at that play on replay can see that is the case. Yeah, Baker threw it but he just never thought Otton would be deeper than the linebacker. If you watched KC final SBowl drive, Kelce stayed in front of linebackers and safeties and MaHomes easily found him. Baker took the heat. He wasn’t going to throw a teammate under the bus.
February 24th, 2024 at 10:04 pm
Fields to Bucs would be a joke…
So would failing Russell Wilson…
Neither would be up grades at the qb position…
February 24th, 2024 at 10:41 pm
@ Gipper
Yawn
February 24th, 2024 at 10:43 pm
Gipper has his trusty crystal ball all shined up I see.
February 24th, 2024 at 11:29 pm
I mean if we couldn’t sign any other QBs or draft a rookie QB then maybe we trade for Fields to compete with Trask. Chicago is a bad team and has had bad coaches during his time there so idk that we really know what Fields is capable of. I wouldn’t trade much for him though.
February 24th, 2024 at 11:40 pm
Some interesting trade ideas on fansided. Bucs trade a 4th rd pick for Bills center Mitch Morse, above average grade from Pff and a salary cap hit of $11.5
Bucs also trade CG to the Titans for Amani Hooker and his cap hit of $9.3.
Neither are terrible ideas. They address positions of need while reducing our cap hit at WR.
February 25th, 2024 at 4:50 am
Agree with Usfbuc. Unsure if Fields wants a back up position but it’s worth a try. Many other QBs took a while too show their strengths. He is only 24 years old too. If Evans and other stay, Fields could do well and we keep Baker. It will depend also on who surrounds each of them.
February 25th, 2024 at 5:23 am
Gipper Says:
February 24th, 2024 at 9:55 pm
BillyBucco,
You are just misinformed. NFL receivers who can get their hands on a pass are supposed to catch it
—-
Like I said they are just hating. Claiming a ftuure Hall of fame receiver Couldn’t hold on to ball that was right between his hands becuase “it was too hard” just a wuss excuse. Thankfully you will never hear Evans himself make such a silly claim to excuse himself.
February 25th, 2024 at 8:40 am
More Baker haters than I thought. Hope we,re-sign him.
February 25th, 2024 at 11:00 am
HC Grover Says:
February 24th, 2024 at 12:33 pm
They could trade Trask. Then the Bears will win the SB with Trask at QB.
Parody or stupidity?