CBS: Bucs Just Don’t Have The Talent
November 21st, 2023
Bucs coach Todd Bowles.
Joe has been trying to spin Sunday’s loss into something comforting.
But really, did any sober fan think the Bucs would beat one of the best teams in the NFL in their own crib?
The simple fact of the matter is, per John Breech of CBS, the talent gap between the two teams meant the Bucs pretty much had to play perfect football to beat the 49ers.
Going 1 of 3 in the red zone doomed Tampa Bay in this one, especially with the turnover on downs and red-zone interception in the fourth quarter that was Baker Mayfield’s first red-zone interception in four years. Mayfield did whatever he could to mask an inconsistent offense (4.3 yards per play) and nonexistent run game (the Buccaneers averaged 3.7 yards per carry). Tampa Bay’s defense didn’t play well until the 49ers got conservative after building a 20-point lead. Regardless, the Buccaneers did fight, but they just don’t have the talent to compete with the top teams in the NFC like the 49ers.
As Joe stated last week on the wildly popular “Ira Kaufman Podcast,” there was no position group the Bucs that gave the Bucs an advantage over the 49ers except for punter (and maybe kicker).
So it would have taken a Herculean effort for the Bucs to come out ahead. And that was before all the injuries and hot players pulled off the field for no good reason.
November 21st, 2023 at 12:15 am
They don’t need talent. Just posithink.
November 21st, 2023 at 12:25 am
Do we have the talent level of the 49ers? No. Do we have the talent to go to or win the super bowl? Highly unlikely. Did I expect us to beat the 49ers? Definitely not. All I’m asking for is a coach to identify and utilize the talent we do have to the maximum extent possible. And to cater to their strengths and minimize their weaknesses. And to put them in positions to succeed. And bowles has proven time and time and time and time again that he is incapable or unwilling to do those things. He must be fired. ASAP. His leadership causes us to underperform the talent level we do have and embarrass ourselves. Playcalling, time-out & clock management, end of half submission have nothing to do with talent. All these things I’ve mentioned are the responsibilities of coaches. We need new ones. And I’m talking everyone, bowles, Canales, Armstrong, Goodwin, Moore, Skip, Edwards, EVERYONE has to go. And if Licht doesn’t work with the Glazers to make that happen before next season, he can be gone with bowles after next season as well 👋.New coach, rookie QB next year baby. Go Bucs!
#FIREbowlesNOW
November 21st, 2023 at 12:34 am
Bring back BA and we’d win another SB with this talent somehow. 💯
November 21st, 2023 at 12:36 am
BA was clearly the Superstar on this coaching staff and we’ve been lacking in that dept ever since he got the (semi)boot.
November 21st, 2023 at 12:39 am
One of the worst decisions (if not THE worst decision) in franchise history to (not so) kindly force BA out the door and off the premises entirely basically. Bad form!
November 21st, 2023 at 12:54 am
‘Bucs Just Don’t Have The Talent’ – at coaching… Truth!
November 21st, 2023 at 12:58 am
Oh jeeze Eric, that’s not what happened at all. BA had no intention of coaching for even one more year.
November 21st, 2023 at 1:12 am
They are eating an $80 million dollar dead money hit. That is about a third of the cap. This roster has been held together by thrift store shopping this season. With a draft and more cap space next season, its reasonable to expect even more talent on this team. Todd Bowles cant be here coach it, even if this team manages to back its way into the playoffs.
November 21st, 2023 at 1:21 am
The problem is bowels wants the talent on our team to play the way he thinks they should play instead of maximizing every players potential and finding ways to put them in position to win. Just one example, he and Canales took Godwin out of the slot where he was a beast and put him on the outside. Look at his production and performance go down. Don’t tell me it’s because of his knee, he’s just not as good on the outside. He is a strong handed physical receiver that should be put back in the slot and fed the ball. Fire Bowles
November 21st, 2023 at 1:22 am
Joe posts the 33rd team saying that Seattle seahawk running back Zack Charbonnet had a notable performance because he got 69 total yards (47 from rushing, 3.1 ypc, and 22 from passing yards) and ZERO touchdowns against the Rams but Joe said that Rachaad White had a below average game because he got 119 total yards (73 from rushing, 3.6 ypc, and 46 from passing yards) and two touchdowns against the Texans 🙄
November 21st, 2023 at 1:24 am
Yeah, Erik, not what happened. He set TB up with TB 12 and a good roster. Unfortunately Bowles and Lefty suck. Bowles does need to go though. I’m tired of seeing the same crap. Trying to fit a square peg in a round hole. Yes, we have a team built for passing, but we’re going to predominantly run. Being stubborn to this point is insanity. Now the defense hasn’t been as dominant as before. It’s just a mess.
November 21st, 2023 at 2:19 am
I don’t buy that not enough talent. It’s talent all over this team defense and offense. I think the key is how players should be move around or benched to put the right players in the best position to stride. With that being said I do think we need a upgrade at RB and QB
November 21st, 2023 at 2:34 am
Bucs don’t have the coaching talent.
It starts at the top
November 21st, 2023 at 4:14 am
Biggest talent gap is at coaching and how players are utilized. Bucs have holes in the roster filled by questionable players, but bad coaching has lost two games so far this season. Think Jason also made some bad decisions in the draft and as starters these poor players have come back to haunt the Bucs. You know who they are….
November 21st, 2023 at 4:56 am
Can’t prove it, but I think that Leftwich and Brady wanted to take the ” No Risk it ,No Biscuit” out the offense and go to a short passing game designed to get the ball out in 2.5 seconds. Does anybody think “BA” wanted any part of that?
So now we are still not able to score TD’s and the yards per catch is way down
just like Brady’s last year here.
We need to build an O line that will give our QB more time to let receivers separate
and get in the open field to get YAC yards. One of the reasons the Texans beat us is
their O Line gave C. J. Stroud as much as 3.7 seconds to let plays develop and create big gains. There is little chance of that happening this year, but we need to build the line and use our weapons in the passing game more effectively.
November 21st, 2023 at 5:37 am
#FIRETODDTOILETBOWLES
November 21st, 2023 at 5:50 am
The Bucs have enough talent to play much better than they have. The coaching is awful and their failure to use the talent properly is what is making us crazy.
November 21st, 2023 at 6:07 am
Breech of CBS … ‘Tampa Bay’s defense didn’t play well until the 49ers got conservative after building a 20-point lead. Regardless, the Buccaneers did fight, but they just don’t have the talent to compete with the top teams in the NFC like the 49ers.’
That’s a fair assessment of the 49ers game AND of the season, especially on the talent differences.
o Bucs have the 6th youngest team in the NFL right now (25.85 years), and NONE of those 5 teams younger than we are currently have a winning record. There’s probably a reason for that.
o Bucs have the 4th LOWEST CAP dollars allocated to active players ($130.9 mil). Since NFL players like to be paid for their talent, it’s probably safe to assume that, on average, teams with the highest payroll probably have the highest talent level, and thus probably win more consistently. And in fact, only 2 of the 15 teams with the highest active payroll currently have losing records.
o Bucs have the highest amount of Dead CAP dollars ($78.2 mil) of any NFL team. IOW, we’ve had to go ‘cheap’ on the talent we’re putting on the field because we’re paying for the past. Duh.
Todd Bowles had very little to do with any of those. It’s pretty much the hand he was dealt when he accepted the passing of the baton from BA. All of the decisions related to signings and costs point straight back to Bucs’ management. Drafting ‘projects’ like JTS, Hall & others also points straight back to our GM (if we’re gonna give Jason credit for drafting guys like Evans & Wirfs, it’s only fair to hold him ACCOUNTABLE for drafting those others too). Same with bringing in FAs. If JL gets credit for JPP, he should also get ‘credit’ for FAs like Neal & Verner.
JL’s grown a bunch IMO since the early days of 2014 (and Lovie Smith), and I personally wouldn’t ‘trade’ him for any other GM right now. But fans & media seem to be focusing on Bowles as being the ‘bad guy here’ when in fact he’s just playing the hand that he’s been dealt. Admittedly not playing it very well at times, but TALENT LEVEL is vital in the NFL and we don’t know what goes on behind the scenes. At best, the Bucs are currently a mid-tier team from a TALENT perspective.
November 21st, 2023 at 6:38 am
EXCUSES EXCUSES EXCUSES.
November 21st, 2023 at 6:47 am
Needs
Head Coach
Interior Oline
Tight End
Running back
Edge Rusher
Middle Linebacker
Corners
Safety
November 21st, 2023 at 6:53 am
Somebody mentioned Godwin’s production has gone down, Mayfield had him wide open right in front of his face for 6 but decided Mike had a better shot at it double covered that was almost picked in the red zone. When you have a Qb that makes no other progression down there it’s gonna be hard to score. The replay showed that clear as day and I could go on and list several more examples. Defense is still a top 10 unit in the only metric that decides games (points) and that’s without an edge rush too, Thank JL for that. You will NEVER win in this league scoring 14 points.
November 21st, 2023 at 7:00 am
Watching Todd Bowle’s scheme get dismantled by open players running free in the backfield on appx 60% of pass plays seems less like talent and more like scheme. I agree with CBS, the Bucs D seems to shine brightest when teams are conservative. Bowles scheme’s are fantastic against sub par qb’s and conservative game plans. But a QB that understands the zone with decent route runners and a good offenseive coordinator eats Todd Bowles for Sunday Brunch. McCaffrey absolutely exposed Devin White and the ONLY plan to contain him seemed to be the Safety’s AFTER he made his catches. Dumb….. And I give McCaffrey all the credit for his talent but this is just one of many games under Todd’s D reign where the receivers always look like they are making nearly uncontested catches 8, 12, 14, 16yds down the middle of the field.
November 21st, 2023 at 7:07 am
We sure don’t have the talent. The 49ers’ last-pick-in-the-entire-draft second-year QB is better than our bust first-round 6th-year QB. Why don’t we do what the 49ers did and play OUR young quarterback? Ya think?
November 21st, 2023 at 7:27 am
Purdy got on the field when Lance broke his ankle MPTF, Brady got on the field when Jim Kelly broke… something. Zach Wilson got on the field when Aaron Rodgers blew his achilles. Sometimes it works out, sometimes it doesn’t
November 21st, 2023 at 7:38 am
I would agree that SF has more talent than the Bucs…….
We have more talent than the Texans & Falcons but we lost to them…..that’s on the coaches.
5 of our 6 losses are to teams with winning records.
We’ve got 80mil in dead cap and another 20 mil on IR with Jensen & Gage…
That’s 100 million not on the field…..that would certainly buy a few players.
November 21st, 2023 at 7:43 am
KC has the youngest defense in the NFL, yet they are #2 in scoring and #3 in yards. Good coaching matters.
November 21st, 2023 at 7:46 am
Also, on the subject of KC. I mentioned before the season, I wanted the Bucs to sign Drew Tranquil and trade DW. KC got him for $3 mil (5 with incentives). Tell me he wouldn’t have been better than the loafer this year.
November 21st, 2023 at 8:15 am
I am fatigued by ineffective coaching and game planning.
Coaching and game planning can overcome a lot of talent issues.
But combine mediocre talent with poor coaching…and you get 4-6.
But I still hear casuals say, “Oh, look! Marshmellow schedule coming up! We still have a chance!1!1!11!!!”
:rolleyes:
This team is painful to watch. I’ve given up on solid wins. I’m pulling for individual players now.
November 21st, 2023 at 8:18 am
realistic-optimistic … ‘KC has the youngest defense in the NFL, yet they are #2 in scoring and #3 in yards. Good coaching matters.’
It certainly does matter, and Andy Reid ranks right up near the top of the ‘Best Coaches’ list. Has never had even close to a losing season since taking over the Chiefs in 2013. And their DC, Steve Spagnuolo, is certainly no slouch (he’s, like Andy Reid, has been doing this a looong time).
Got a hunch also that having Patrick Mahomes as your QB has something to do with their success these past few years. Gifted players sign on to play with him for less (like they did with Tom Brady?) seeking a Super Bowl championship.
Personally think that Todd Bowles biggest problem is trying to wear 2 hats. There are only 168 hours in a week, and trying to do 2 full-time jobs in that amount of hours rarely works. Clearly not working for him.
November 21st, 2023 at 8:32 am
the Bucs red zone issues came from being impatient, Baker did a great job on the first TD to Evans, by holding the ball. But there are times he rushes the throw, doesn’t extend the play or look for the second option when given time. where are the naked bootlegs, Bake has shown he has the grit to run that kind of play.
November 21st, 2023 at 8:35 am
@Beej, for Brady it was Drew Bledsoe, not Jim Kelly and you forgot Shaun King got on the field when Trent Dilfer and the other backup guy went down
November 21st, 2023 at 8:36 am
Steve Spagnuolo is a lot like Bowles. Long successful career as a blitz-heavy DC. But once he got promoted to HC it fell apart. His record as a HC is horrible (11-41).
November 21st, 2023 at 8:37 am
#New Talent Cycle-New Head Coach
Been saying this since last year
GO BUCS!!!!!!
November 21st, 2023 at 8:42 am
@Beej, for Brady it was Drew Bledsoe, not Jim Kelly and you forgot Shaun King got on the field when Trent Dilfer and the other backup guy went down
The Bucs were looking to put Shawn King in, and then the opportunity happened when Trent went down. Shawn King got the start against Seattle and that was the beginning of the end for Trent in Tampa.
November 21st, 2023 at 8:44 am
Joe I didn’t hear the podcast but one of you did write that the Bucs had a likely talent edge at wide receiver. Was that the “other” Joe?
November 21st, 2023 at 8:59 am
I’m concerned with our teams ability to self assess our own roster. We paid Davis / Dean and let Whitehead go. We continue to see JTS be JTS, but have other players on this team playing better. Oh, they are in a rotation?? While I like our young receivers – why can’t we get the ball to our $$$ wide receivers? Offensive coordinator or QB…maybe a little bit of both??
Frustrating being a Bucs fan.
November 21st, 2023 at 9:07 am
D.R.
Just an excellent well thought out post!!! And what a concept…specific bullet points stating your case. Truly well done.
Although here at JBF I guess I’m supposed to deduct “style points” for the refusal to include hyperbole and some juvenile insults like “Bowels” instead of Bowles.
November 21st, 2023 at 9:15 am
StPete … ‘Although here at JBF I guess I’m supposed to deduct “style points” for the refusal to include hyperbole and some juvenile insults like “Bowels” instead of Bowles.’
LMAO St Pete. I’ll try harder next time.
November 21st, 2023 at 9:38 am
Do they have enough talent to beat Atlanta, Houston, Buffalo?
Another week = Another EXCUSE
November 21st, 2023 at 9:40 am
The Bucs really need an offense that can sustain drives. That will not only allow the defense to rest some and will also give them a reason to try harder.
A defensive coach who believes man coverage means disrupting the receiver they are covering would also help.
November 21st, 2023 at 10:06 am
I know they don’t have talent on the coaching staff. Harold Goodwin has been the run game coordinator for the worst rushing offense in the league the last two years. The other O line coach the last two years hasn’t done a good job either, do you see improvement? Yet both are collecting paychecks. Same secondary coaches, same wide arse open receivers, with no name QBs setting records against it, yet no one’s fault? Coaches, and coordinators getting canned aeound the league for less, yet we sail full steam ahead for the iceberg. Black Monday can’t come soon enough.
November 21st, 2023 at 10:37 am
Move Rashad White to slot next year let Devin White walk trade Dean or cut Dean. Got to keep/resign Evans, Wirfs, and Mayfield on offense maybe let Godwin Go love him but hasnt been the same since the ACL. Keep Winfield Jr, David, Vea, Barret, Yaya-Diaby and Kancey. Draft wr and lb to replace the vets (David and Evans) get 3 more years out of them to help mold the rookies into professionals hopefully Baker Mayfield mature’s in the offense and we have our QB (Who wouldn’t want a Franchise QB don’t really care what there name is) but after we draft the best rb in the 3rd round (Carson Steele?) if Baker doesn’t pan out trade the farm for Archie Manning Jr in a few years (2025-2026??) hopefully we somehow Drafted Marvin Harrison Jr and Barret Carter as the replacements for David and Evans. This year along with interior line Will Putnam in the 4th after a trade down to get a 5th hopefully. Draft Josh Proctor at Safety. 6th take Ennis Rakestraw Jr Cb and then grab Shyheim Battle in the 7th also a cb. Hopefully this ages well lol….
November 21st, 2023 at 11:02 am
We went 8-9 last year w Brady.
This year a leaner team w/o Brady.
Sometimes I think expectations are unrealistic
November 21st, 2023 at 11:30 am
ProudBucsFan,
Godwin in the slot would give Baker a good outlet for short/medium passes whcih is what Landry was for him in Cleveland and that duo was productive as hell. There are so many puzzling decisions with this coaching staff
November 21st, 2023 at 12:50 pm
Huh what’s J lichts record again? Who is responsible for roster building in this organization?
November 21st, 2023 at 1:57 pm
Look guys, this is not Bowles 1st rodeo. He probably has already told his family to start packing bags. This team needs to go on a roll which they are incapable of. We will be lucky..really lucky to win 6 or 7 games. Bowles is done. Stick a fork in’em.
November 21st, 2023 at 2:31 pm
All these “fans” who know virtually nothing about professional football who want to hang the 49ers game on Bowles and/or Mayfield need to remember the obvious. Otton dropped a perfect pass in the end zone that would have cut deficit to one touchdown with 4 minutes left. Mayfield is the only QB Bucs will need for the next 10 years. He needs a mediocre running game which the Bucs don’t have and a few guys who can hang on to his passes. As the rest of the season plays out you will see that Mayfield is very good with the deep ball. Like all QB’s he needs time to throw. When he gets it, he is very accurate.
November 21st, 2023 at 3:03 pm
We have more talent than 90% of the teams out there playing today we just don’t have the coaching.
November 21st, 2023 at 7:01 pm
BB Sorry to be a dick and the hyperbole police but it’s just getting old
90% of the other teams. The Bucs are the 4th most talented team in the league…what behind KC, SF, and Philly. Well at least that leaves the Bucs better talent than Cincy, Buffalo, Miami, Baltimore, Jacksonville, Detroit and a couple others.
One guy here posted that if Mayfield could score more than 10 points a game things would be better. REALLY? The Bucs are averaging just under TWICE that many points at 19.8 including the 4 stinkers of 11,6,13,14. They’ve also put up 27, 26,37,20.
I’m not looking through rose colored glasses but I’m also not looking through sh!t covered glasses. The Bucs were expected by many to be the very worst team in the worst division in football BEFORE the season. SI predicted they were so untalented they’d win TWO games all year!
November 22nd, 2023 at 12:30 am
Yet another stat geek chimes in with his football expertise.
Geez this is getting old Joe!
Clearly didn’t even watch the game! And clearly does not follow this team!
Go Bucs!