Curious Evaluation Of 2011 Left Tackles
July 27th, 2010
There’s going to be gobs and gobs of Donald Penn chatter in the coming days. Joe just hopes it’s not as ridiculous as the stuff St. Pete Times’ beat writer Rick Stroud, aka The Mad Twitter, is trying to sell today.
Fresh off an extended vacation, The Mad Twitterer tries to tell fans that left tackles won’t be in demand in 2011, in part because teams are pretty well set at that position.
But like any NFL team, the Bucs place a higher value on the left tackle position, especially after investing so much in Freeman.
The 2011 draft class is believed to be rich in left tackles and there could be more than 300 unrestricted free agents next year if a new collective bargaining agreement is reached. Only a handful of teams are expected to be in desperate need of a left tackle next year.
Joe suspects that rather than Stroud doing exemplary research on the subject of 2011 left tackles, he got this line of hooey from Bucs executives who are trying to scare Penn.
No reasonable football observer would dare publish leaguewide need at the left tackle position a year in advance, when guys routinely go down with injuries, lose their effectiveness and insist on getting paid more than their team will pay.
Of course, one year ago, no football expert would have predicted the Bucs would be concerned about their left tackle position because the team had a young, effective player at that spot.
That would be Donald Penn.
July 27th, 2010 at 4:23 pm
Way off topic but why is there an add for the jaguars on a bucs site? Must be the $$ cant hate on you JOE money TALKS!!!!
July 27th, 2010 at 4:58 pm
Fuc’Em Buc’Em:
Joe has never received a red cent from any NFL team so Joe assumes you are referring to a Google ad? Joe doesn’t control Google ads.
July 27th, 2010 at 5:18 pm
Joe,
Is it me or does the whole Donald Penn thing seems odd. The Bucs need good/great play from the LT position, so I would think they would extend a bit to get Penn in camp since he is the only LT on the roster who can handle the job. Or is he? Are the Bucs just playing the “we’ll just replace you” card?
Pete
July 27th, 2010 at 5:37 pm
Pete:
Bucs are playing hardball with Penn. They know they are not going anywhere with him or without him. So they can afford to be patient.
July 27th, 2010 at 5:42 pm
Ouch Joe! That comment to Pete really hurt….
July 27th, 2010 at 5:43 pm
Joe, that makes sense, but let’s not get Freeman killed in the process.
July 27th, 2010 at 5:55 pm
Penn is a RFA, meaning the Bucs have the rights to him but he is not on the roster yet. He’s unsigned. He doesn’t have to show up until the Bucs sign him to a contract.
July 27th, 2010 at 6:25 pm
i think everybody posting on here knows that much at least
July 27th, 2010 at 8:48 pm
ok Joe, this is why I love this site. I’m usually just searching for any and all news on the Bucs, but pointing out that Stroud probably is being used by the front office to pressure Penn would not have occured to me. Good stuff man! Keep it up!
July 27th, 2010 at 9:04 pm
Joe, or anyone who knows this one.
Penn has a tender out there 3.1 million. At what point can the Bucs simply tell Penn, ‘sorry we don’t wany you anymore’ and make Penn sit out the season?
If the Bucs tell Penn no thanks can Penn sign with another team or will he be forced to sit out?
Finally at what point can the Buc reduce their offer to Penn?
July 27th, 2010 at 9:29 pm
Mr. Lucky,
It sounds like Penn sits for the season if the Bucs don’t budge. This seems like a dangerous game for both parties. Freeman’s blind side is being compromised, but at the same time, the Bucs can say “We will just replace you.” If Penn sits out, who know s what will happen, a year makes a big difference. NFL = Not For Long.
July 27th, 2010 at 9:45 pm
For what it’s worth, Rick Shroud was one of the guys that suggested that this years draft would be “chock full of quality quarterbacks!”
I don’t think it’s ever wise to make such a bold prediction for an event that is over almost a year away.
I think maybe is is simply trying to explore the possibility of Penn not coming back…but that won’t happen.
Although, if Penn does hold out…well, I suppose the Bucs might just look for a LT in next years tackle…or start prepping Xultan (I just know I mispelled that name).
July 27th, 2010 at 9:59 pm
I’m just not sure this is really a fight worth fighting. Penn can hold out if he wants. Penn was the highest paid O-lineman last year in base salary. Faine had more in incentives, but Penn was higher in base. Penn was at 2.792 Million last year, Faine was at 1 Million. Even Davin Joseph was at 1.5 Million and even with incentives was less than Penn. Obviously Trueblood and Zuttah were less. So, Penn is the highest paid lineman already on the team, is getting a raise, gained 40 pounds during the season… and he’s holding out? At least Davin Joseph made a Pro Bowl. We should pay him. Penn should sign the tender and play for his big contract he’ll get next year. If he holds out, he may not have the type of year he’d want to get the “big” contract due to lack of time with his teammates or being out of playing shape… or worse… injuries tend to hit those that don’t get the time in during training camp or preseason more often and that would kill that “big” contract too.
July 27th, 2010 at 10:17 pm
BamBam, I agree, but Penn LOST 40 pounds, he didn’t gain.
July 27th, 2010 at 10:40 pm
@ Mr. Lucky
I’m not sure if it was you or BMA but I think we were discussing this the other day…I looked it up…
“Penn has a tender out there 3.1 million. At what point can the Bucs simply tell Penn, ’sorry we don’t wany you anymore’ and make Penn sit out the season?”
The Bucs can’t “force” Penn to sit out for the rest of the season. It’s all on Penn. He can sign anytime he wants before week 10. However, if he doesn’t sign his tender before then he cannot play for the rest of the season.
“If the Bucs tell Penn no thanks can Penn sign with another team or will he be forced to sit out?”
Nope. The Bucs hold his rights exclusively for this year and next year (assuming there’s a season) if they choose to tender him again (I think…my memory is shot right now). If they choose not to tender him again next year, then he’s a free man.
“Finally at what point can the Buc reduce their offer to Penn?”
The date for that has already passed. It was June 15th. The Org can do it at any time they choose. The fact that the Org hasn’t reduced it yet is either an olive branch of good faith or an attempt to make sure they maximize their compensation in any trade…who knows…
July 27th, 2010 at 10:43 pm
@Pete, so if the Bucs tell Penn, “If you don’ sign by August 5th” and Penn decides to wait until the 2nd or 3rd preseason can the Bucs say..”Sorry Donald but you didn’t sign so you can’t play in 2010?”
or
Can the Bucs lower their tender offer to Penn since he didn’t meet their deadline?
July 27th, 2010 at 10:47 pm
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/07/27/with-to-in-the-fold-antonio-bryant-could-be-headed-for-pup-list/
July 27th, 2010 at 10:52 pm
Joe here,
Mr. Lucky – In simple terms, the Bucs own Penn, but the tradeoff for Penn is that they have to honor the tender, which means he’s paid per game divided by the $3 million. …Bucs are welcome to trade him, release him, whatever. But if they keep him, then they have to pay him when he feels like returning.
July 27th, 2010 at 11:52 pm
He would have to be under contract for a trade to take place. They could work a “sign and trade” deal where he signs the tender with the understanding the trade would take place and he’d negotiate his new deal with his new team. Other than that, I believe they can retract the tender offer and release him as an unrestricted free agent. Penn will be an unrestricted free agent next offseason, assuming he signs by week 10, otherwise he’ll remain a restricted free agent with the team (as he won’t accrue his “year” towards free agency if he doesn’t sign by then).
I still think it’s funny that his RFA tender offer is higher in base salary than Faine and Joseph and he’s holding out. When all are healthy, I think Penn’s the third best lineman in the group.
July 28th, 2010 at 6:38 am
Thanks all for the info.
I would love for Penn to just suck it up, sign his deal and play his azz off so all this becomes a mute point.
July 28th, 2010 at 7:50 am
No “AB to the Pup list” or “AB says he will show to practice” article Joe? Somethings up. Do you know anything yet?
July 28th, 2010 at 8:10 am
for those wondering, im pretty sure the time to retract tender offers has come and gone.
July 28th, 2010 at 9:06 am
If they release Penn, they are in effect retracting the offer.
July 28th, 2010 at 9:15 am
@BamBamBuc (just to address one thing you mentioned)
“So, Penn is the highest paid lineman already on the team, is getting a raise, gained 40 pounds during the season… and he’s holding out? ”
All of the linemen, on both offense and defenses, had been told by staff to gain weight going into last season…remember, the Bucs were making changes that required (their words, not mine) larger linemen?
When that fell through, Penn started shedding weight again to get back into shape. Though the results became more visible during the off season, he actually started shedding pounds during the end of last season. But again, ALL the linemen were told to put on substantial weight. It was a bad move, and it slowed everyone down.
Also, to address his salary last year, the issue isn’t the amount that’s being offered, it’s the length of the contract (though I’m sure underpaying him would amount to an insult). Penn wants a long term deal, not a year-to-year deal, which is what many players are getting stuck with because of the potential lockout.
July 28th, 2010 at 10:04 am
Muscle is heavier/denser than fat. Gaining weight should always be in the form of muscle, not fat. Weight gain in the form of waffles, pancakes, tamales is never a good thing. I didn’t see Penn at Fanfest, but I am curious to see how he looks. If he lost 40 pounds of fat, he is back to square 1 and hasn’t gained much. If he has been in the weight room and running to lose say 60 pounds of fat while increasing 20 pounds of muscle, then that is a good thing. I believe that if Penn is in his best shape, comes to camp, plays his heart out with all of the above, I can’t see why Dominick wouldn’t give him his long term contract when the CBA is finalized. Drew Rosenhaus said last night that he does not see a way that a lockout will occur. He said that both sides know they have to get a deal done and it should happen by next off-season.