Bobby Wagner Release Could Complicate Market For Lavonte David
February 24th, 2023
Joe knows the Bucs would love to bring back iconic linebacker Lavonte David in free agency.
Head coach/defensive playcaller Lavonte David adores him, and he’s still a strong player and model Buccaneer at 33 years old.
But as most fans have figured out by now, the Bucs already are $50 million or so over the salary cap. That means a good player or two will be cut and a good free agent or two, like David, won’t be re-signed. JoeBucsFan.com columnist Ira Kaufman reported that Donovan Smith won’t be on the roster when training camp arrives. But the Bucs need to shave more salary than Smith’s fat paycheck.
Yesterday, news broke that the Rams will release stud linebacker Bobby Wagner, the eight-time Pro Bowler from Lavonte David’s 2012 draft class.
Is Wagner washed out? Ha! He cranked out 140 tackles last season with six sacks and two interceptions. Wagner didn’t miss a game and the analytics crowd often had him ranked as the best linebacker in the game.
Joe is sure David and his agent, and Bucs general manager Jason Licht, will have an eye on the market for Wagner. It’ll be a big topic of conversation at the NFL Scouting Combine next week as GMs and agents and coaches (and Joe) drink cocktails and have top-secret conversations in Indianapolis bars, hotel lounges and steakhouses.
Joe could this going two ways. If there’s a lot of interest in Wagner and he’s primed to sign a fat multi-year deal, then the Bucs will know the losers of those sweepstakes are likely to want David. If the market for Wagner is cold, that could signal David to lower his contract demands and work more with the Bucs on a team-friendly deal.
David earned $12.5 million in each of the last two seasons. Might the Bucs be able to get him for $8.5 million?
Ira Kaufman Talks Dave Canales Philosophy, Who Will Choose The Starting QB, Mike Evans Trade Talk And What Drives It, And Says Sources Tell Him Donovan Smith Will Not Return, And More
February 24th, 2023 at 8:57 am
When you’re a multi millionaire already then you play where you want and accept less money. It’s all up to David whether he stays or not.
February 24th, 2023 at 9:04 am
Bingo Costa Rica
February 24th, 2023 at 9:12 am
Head Coach Lavonte David has a nice ring to it
February 24th, 2023 at 9:14 am
Split the diff at 10 mil per for 3 more and let’s goooooo
Let’s hope all that energy from the OC can light a fire under this team
The best leaders know their own weaknesses
Todd is showing maturity in leadership by bringing in the opposite of his personality type on the other side of the ball
We all saw how uninspiring the O played so much last year, maybe the spark of a hungry younger guy that didn’t have BA blowing up his ego all the time can make a difference
February 24th, 2023 at 9:20 am
i’d be looking to draft LVDs replacement at 19 or Deans or Hicks/Gholston….or D Smith….
Shaping out to be a first round pick for a need (for a change)
February 24th, 2023 at 9:31 am
Sorry, as it’s brought up repeatedly, players on the wrong side of 30 with diminishing play don’t command big dollars. I doubt Wagner gets another big contract, the Rams just somewhat did that and look at where he is regardless of his stats last year.
If David wants to retire a Buc, he knows he can’t ask for money that’s not there for him. He’s not stupid. And we don’t have the draft picks to open up another hole on a roster full of them. You work something out reasonable for him to retire a Buc and draft his eventual replacement.
February 24th, 2023 at 9:48 am
Despite their respective ages, wouldn’t a David/Wagner pairing in the middle be a huge upgrade? Then let White rush off the edge and be a backup LB if David or Wagner misses a game or two. Restructure all 3 LB salaries (if possible).
But as DR correctly points out, our most glaring needs are on defense, mostly on D-Line and in the secondary. Adding Wagner wouldn’t fill holes/needs, but it would be an awesome LB room – maybe best in the league.
February 24th, 2023 at 9:55 am
I hope for the best for Lavonte. We could sure use him , but does he prefer a few dollars more or does he want to stay here? After you have so much money to does a few dollars my matter any more?
February 24th, 2023 at 10:04 am
Just the tax differential alone, going to most states with income taxes and various other taxis we don’t pay in Florida, would make a significant difference in Lavonte’s take home pay. And Licht has proved an expert in making cap money move around. Lavonte has already said he wants to finish his career in Tampa. He knows the salary cap situation as well as anybody, yet he said that.
February 24th, 2023 at 10:12 am
Something else to consider is LVD’s dead cap space money we owe him – $6.8M can be restructured and pushed into 2024 and 2025 if he is re-signed.
We have so many roster holes to fill on defense. The Bucs should bring back LVD and Hicks (who we also owe $4.9M of DCS).
Push as much of that dead cap money into 2024 and fill 2 of those holes in this defense.
February 24th, 2023 at 10:17 am
Let him go he too old and could be hurt too easy and out of games.
February 24th, 2023 at 10:18 am
The clock is ticking. The Saints have already restructured 4 contracts and have cleared over $35M in cap space…
What are the Bucs waiting for? We are still sitting at minus $56.5M.
February 24th, 2023 at 10:23 am
I agree with Costa Rica. Unless they are complete idiots, players like David are already generationally wealthy. Unless it’s a so-called insult thing, it would be nice to think that they would take a lesser salary to stay with the team they prefer. Kind of like the quarterback we just had did for years.
February 24th, 2023 at 10:24 am
To be clear, taking the lesser salary would be in the service of being able to sign other players and field a more competitive team. If we were 50 million under the cap, that changes that argument entirely.
February 24th, 2023 at 10:29 am
Id love to keep him, i remember pulling for us to draft him since he was well known by Shiano….but unless its 3mill, we’re stuck and might have to let go. Thats every player who wants to stay…3 mill is all we can do if you’re worth a lot more. You know we’re in cap hell, would love to keep you…but 3 mill is all we got for now…maybe next year we’ll have a little more….it sucks but is what it is.
February 24th, 2023 at 10:42 am
Lavonte David doesn’t deserve a pay cut, he deserves to compete for another Super Bowl on a different team that’s led by a competent Head coach
February 24th, 2023 at 11:00 am
Trade White for a high draft pick sign Bobby Wagner their salaries cancel out plus you get a solid draft pick.
February 24th, 2023 at 11:23 am
The Bucs and Licht are so conservative and slow to move most the time. Saints have already started making moves and yet we took over a month to hire an OC, let alone either cut, or extend contracts.
Hell, Saints have been doing interviews with Hendon Hooker,… why haven’t we???
February 24th, 2023 at 11:29 am
The only thing that is permanent is change , if you can’t adapt to that you won’t be successful in anything you attempt to do.
February 24th, 2023 at 11:37 am
Agree with Marine Buc that we should bring back LVD, but only if he’s willing to play for a team-friendly salary (my guess would be $6-$8 mil). We’ll owe him $6.8 mil in salary CAP hit this season for his services in 2022 regardless of whether or not we re-sign. However, by giving him a 2-year contract, we could spread that $6.8 mil out over a couple years & do the same with his new contract. LVD has earned the right to CHOOSE if he wants to retire as a Buc IMO, but it has to be at a team-friendly price or he’ll have to look elsewhere. Unfortunately that’d mean we’ll have to either draft his replacement (high) OR sign a FA ILB (could be expensive). That’s the pickle we’re in though.
Same rationale applies to both Hicks AND Gholston IMO. Right now we’ve got Vea manning the interior of our DLine … that’s it. Hicks, Gholston, RNR are all FAs, and Hall has shown me that he can’t handle the interior at this point. We need at least 2 NTs (Vea plus 1 more) and 3 other DLinemen (right now we have none IMO). We could draft 1 DT, but that still leaves us with a bunch of holes upfront. Hicks isn’t my favorite, but since we owe him $4.9 mil in CAP hit for his 2022 services, I’d prefer to see us slide that to 2024 (when the salary CAP is supposed to take a big jump?). I love Gholston, and the same rationale could apply since we also owe him $2.4 mil in salary CAP hit for his 2022 services. Would also re-sign RNR (he’s a decent NT) if for close to the same money as he made in 2022 ($2.5 mil per year).
All that is far from an ideal solution, but it’d provide some experienced DLine bodies (at reasonable cost hopefully) & free up some salary CAP space (if we don’t re-sign those players, those void years will eat us up … just like Brady’s $35 mil void year will do). Besides, we’ve got bigger fish to fry in our Secondary (Dean, SMB, Edwards, Neal, Ryan, Delaney are ALL FAs so our Secondary is being pretty much gutted also).
February 24th, 2023 at 11:37 am
Marine Buc – Imo (and I could be wrong) but Tampa has no interest of pushing anything in to 2024. I g et the impression that they want to load up on assets, get rid of fugazzi contracts/DCS, and being over the cap in general and start fresh. Which is exactly why they have no intent of doing any silly witchcraft on Tom bradys deal. They’re over this whole thing without saying it and i believe a reset is coming.
February 24th, 2023 at 11:42 am
Marine Buc … There’s no rush yet to restructure contracts to start fixing our woeful salary CAP mess. I think the Saints jumped the gun personally, since free agency doesn’t start for over 2 more weeks. Gut feeling is that Licht & company are exploring a couple of trades FIRST, and have probably already had talks with all of the likely restructuring candidates. Wouldn’t be surprised if 1 or more of them said NO (not always in the player’s best interests to restructure).
February 24th, 2023 at 11:42 am
Pick up Wagner, Get rid of White!!!
February 24th, 2023 at 11:52 am
gofortheface30 … ‘Which is exactly why they have no intent of doing any silly witchcraft on Tom bradys deal.’
Have a hunch that the Bucs would’ve loved to slide some of Brady’s $35 mil CAP hit to 2024 but that Brady said no. It would’ve meant that he’d have to sign a new agreement with Tampa Bay, and there’s no way TB12 would ever do that again.
As far as sliding some other things to 2024 or beyond goes, we have no choice. No way we can clear enough CAP space this year just by trades & releases to sign all the new bodies we’ll need to fill our holes. I can remember watching some of the old re-runs of Laurel & Hardy years ago, when Oliver Hardy used to often say ‘This is another fine mess you’ve gotten me into’. Kind of applies to our current salary CAP mess it would seem.
February 24th, 2023 at 12:11 pm
Marine Buc. Jason Licht moves at a snails pace on just about everything especially when it comes to finance’s.
February 24th, 2023 at 12:39 pm
Marinebuc and Allbuccedup, I am sure Licht and the rest of the front office are negotiating with a couple of our free agents to see if we will be able to sign them or not. That will have a bearing on who we cut and who we have restructure their contracts. It’s not always the fastest that wins the race.
February 24th, 2023 at 12:47 pm
Trade Devin White and you’ll have money for LVD’s salary on a 2 year contract. Hopefully can get a 2nd and 3rd for White. Use one pick for his replacement and the other on O. Next year draft LVD replacement.
February 24th, 2023 at 1:05 pm
Keep LVD and get rid of the Diva. Trade him for whatever you can get, then when he starts woofing about the $100 million contract he doesn’t deserve half of, we can just laugh.
February 24th, 2023 at 1:16 pm
I agree with the above. I’d love to see Wagner and David and put White as an OLB. I think our defense would be solid given we beef up the interior line a bit.
February 24th, 2023 at 1:29 pm
Ask Ravens Rookie OL Tyler Linderbaum which ILB we should extend.
February 24th, 2023 at 2:19 pm
Both WillG and LVD have SB rings. They are also millionaires. I have a feeling they both will be back. Licht knows what he’s doing even if a few airheads on here think the opposite.
February 24th, 2023 at 3:26 pm
orlbuc has it right, Licht knows what he’s doing, unfortunately he is stuck with the worst head coach in the nfl and the only head coach working today who has turned in 4 consecutive losing seasons and counting.
February 24th, 2023 at 3:33 pm
No to David, even at 8.5.
Painful cuts need to be made and this is one of them.
February 24th, 2023 at 4:03 pm
Davenport … ‘Painful cuts need to be made and this is one of them.’
It’s not a ‘cut’; he’s a free agent. The heart of our defense is really the ILBs, especially their speed & ability to play sideline-to-sideline. LVD & White actually make a very complementary paid, despite what all the nay-sayers contend.
The hit on White from almost all of them is that he can’t defend against the pass. Look at his numbers from last season as compared to LVD’s …
o Games: White – 17 … LVD – 17
o Def snaps: White – 1076 … LVD – 1075
o Sacks: White – 5.5 … LVD – 3
o QB Hits: White – 16 … LVD – 3
o Blitzes: White – 65 … LVD – 24
o TFLs: White – 8 … LVD – 10
o FF: White – 2 … LVD – 1
o FR: White – 3 … LVD – 1
o Tackles: White – 124 … LVD – 124
o PDs: White – 5 … LVD – 5
o Completion % Allowed: White – 76.7% … LVD – 75.3%
o Passing Yards Allowed: White – 400 … LVD – 376
What I see in those numbers from last season is 2 guys who play VERY WELL TOGETHER, and who complement each other very nicely. Can we afford TWO high $$$ ILBs given our current salary CAP situation? No we can’t. And if White intends to hold fast to his $20 mil per year stated number, then he can walk IMO; let someone else cough up that kinda dough. But if we let LVD walk this year, then White walk next year, we’ll either pay high $$$ for their replacements OR use TWO high draft picks (Top-3 for sure?) to draft their replacements. Either way, that’d be expensive.
February 24th, 2023 at 4:29 pm
Dick LaBeau…if Lavonte David wants to retire a Buc, he best do that NOW. lol to put it bluntly like my mother used to…”They ain’t got a pot to piss in.” They need to cut and run, and rebuild. They knew that when they kicked the can down the road. Eventually… The road ends. I regret none of it. Licht did an outstanding job keeping the nucleus together to give it a couple of more runs after WINNING A SUPER BOWL. These people calling for his head, need to remember that. Now…if he tries to keep what we have left together…it’s a mediocre 7 win tops product. Then he loses his job. Nothing good comes out of that for him. Anyone delusional enough to think what we have left is good enough, should refer back to Billy Capece and John McKay’s statement about him. “Capece is Kaput,” and so is this football team for a few years, and again…I regret none of it. Brilliant effort to bring people in here to push this franchise over the top and win a bowl, and great job keeping it together to give it another run. The failure was in the head coaching change. Wrong hire. Even worse now, that a rebuild is in order. Remember…I gave you the stats before in NY…10-6, 5-11, 5-11, 4-12. No one needs me to point out how little faith I have in Todd Bowles after his previous body of work, that watched what transpired this season.
February 24th, 2023 at 4:31 pm
Todd Bowles is a terrible head coach, and we won’t move forward, until he is replaced. End of story
February 24th, 2023 at 7:08 pm
Bucs Guy … ‘Hopefully can get a 2nd and 3rd for White.’
He’s on his 5th year contract, meaning that whoever we trade with would be only guaranteed of getting him on a 1-year rental. Would you really cough up a Rnd 2 AND Rnd 3 pick for that?
February 24th, 2023 at 9:04 pm
I honestly think LVD wants to stay here and play a couple more years and retire. Obviously, he would have to give them a discount but I hope they get it done. His speed was back last year and he looked great.
Same with ME13.
February 24th, 2023 at 9:46 pm
Duane said “Just the tax differential alone, going to most states with income taxes and various other taxis we don’t pay in Florida, would make a significant difference in Lavonte’s take home pay.”
It makes me cringe when I see statements like this. I start to lose my faith in humanity and its average intellect.
For every million dollars, the savings on state income tax is about $50,000. That means on his salary, it’s a little over $500,000. Not sure what “other taxes” Duane is talking about except in the most left of left-wing cities.
You seriously think he is going to stay in Tampa vs. going somewhere else that is going to pay him $1-5 million more because he can save $500K in income taxes here?