Bucs Defensive Line No. 18
July 3rd, 2010
If the Bucs are to have the No. 18 ranked defensive line this fall, Roy Miller will have to play a huge role.
Surfing the net for Bucs nuggets on this lazy Saturday of a holiday weekend, Joe was stunned to come across Jason Cole’s rankings of each NFL team’s defensive line.
Joe not only did a double-take when he read the following, Joe had to check that his coffee wasn’t spiked with something a bit stronger than Folgers Brazilian. Cole, writing for Yahoo! Sports, has the Bucs defensive line ranked at No. 18.
18. Tampa Bay Buccaneers: OK, I have to admit right from the start that the Bucs don’t have an end who is worth mentioning (they have placeholders in Tim Crowder and Stylez G White), but you have to love what the Bucs did with their first two picks in the draft, taking tackle Gerald McCoy and then following up with Brian Price. McCoy may have a Warren Sapp-like impact in that he could make those around him much better, making it easier to find good ends.
Whoa! Talk about being generous!
Joe just can’t see how Cole has the Bucs defensive line ranked so high. Arguably, the Bucs had one of the worst defensive lines in the league last year with one tackle (Chris Hovan) already jettisoned and another (Ryan Sims) all but benched. So your starting defensive tackles will be rookie Gerald McCoy and either rookie Brian Price or second-year tackle Roy Miller.
Joe will have a post tomorrow about how rookie defensive tackles struggle. Joe hopes the rookies play like veterans, but Joe just can’t see how Cole has the Bucs front line ranked so high.
Either that, or the NFL as a whole has dismal defensive fronts.
July 3rd, 2010 at 3:40 pm
Cole is an idiot. The original article has been edited to remove the following:
“If they can milk another year out of veteran Chris Hovan, at least the Bucs won’t get run over and through as they did last season (league-worst 158.2 yards per game).”
Bucstats and probably others called Cole out on it and he removed his obvious blunder from the article. So, the guy can’t be too credible if he has no clue who’s where.
July 3rd, 2010 at 5:18 pm
Glad someone pint out the De position is runing in a close 2 behind WR. It blows my mnd how People at Bucs place are so pumped for Kyle moore who did nothing, tim Crowder, Bennet and styles G white. I mean then people will say Mccoy will make them better but most likely what will happen is Mccoy will be tripled teamed at min and to the least 90 % of the time he will be doubled teamed
July 3rd, 2010 at 5:26 pm
Joe, be prepared to be hammered by the Glazer-aide drinkers who receive as Hate any evidence supporting how DT is one of if not the most difficult position to transition to from college to pro.
I believe that almost no DT’s make huge impacts in their first year as it takes time to adjust to NFL size, NFL and NFL schemes. I recall a lot of discussion in Sapp’s first year and early in his second about him possible being a bust – then all of the sudden the light came on. In fact, Brooks seemed to adjust much more quickly. First rounders Glenn Dorsey, Perria Jerry, BJ Raji and scores of others recently suggest that these two will struggle next year.
18th in the league is just crazy – I actually at this think that Crowder and White may be their two best D-lineman. Miller wasnt terrible, Moore was terrible and I didnt like it that he tried to blame Bates.
Honestly, I am becoming very concerned that the fan base outside of this blog has become completely apathetic about regime. I called a 20+ year straight season ticket holder buddy to see if he was renewing and he said “not a chance” and it has nothing to do with money. He says that he just doesnt care to watch this experiment while paying full price.
I thought that “experiment” was appropriate under these circumstances. The team is putting together thhe youngest, cheapest experimental team – while hoping to win and draw fans.
July 3rd, 2010 at 5:45 pm
Obviously, Jason Cole is a Genius, as he agrees with Capt. Tim that McCoy is gonna be a monster of Biblical proportions! Righteous, Brother Cole, PREACH It!!! Can The Capt. Get an AMEN!!!
July 3rd, 2010 at 5:48 pm
I’m excited ta see this young DT blow backfields UP! Gonna ROCK!! And all y’all haters can BLOW MY SAIL, har har har! 🙂
July 3rd, 2010 at 6:12 pm
Thomas” I believe that almost no DT make …”, and “I am becoming concerned about the Fan base . .”. Welllll, don’t you worry yer Lil head about the DT’s are the fan base, Lil fella. The DT’s are gonna have an impact this year, and more next year- irreguardless of yer “beliefs”. And if you and yer buddy wanna stay home, don’t worry, we’ll be fine. You’ll miss the games , cause of some blackouts. Meybe you can watch Soccer! Me, I’ll be watching a Great young Qb, a couple great rookie WR’s and DT’s, hot cheerleaders, guzzling beer , eating nachoes, and watching the Greatest game ever invented!! Somebody hurt yer feelings? Then stay home- it’ll be allright . Well be fine withoutcha!
July 3rd, 2010 at 6:21 pm
Actually, it’s been pointed out that many of Sapp’s struggles his rookie year were due to the scheme, rather than “transition” time. It wasn’t until his 2nd season that the team switched to the Tampa 2 and utilized him in a 3 technique which was a more comfortable fit for Sapp and his unique skill set. The difference between Sapp and McCoy is that McCoy is coming into a system that fits his skills, Sapp came into a system that changed to suit his skills. No telling what Sapp would have done if the Tampa 2 existed his rookie year.
Brooks also struggled in the old system his rookie year. It wasn’t until his 2nd year that he blew it up with 186 tackles in the Tampa 2.
Now I’m not saying McCoy, Price, Miller, Crowder, White, Black, Hayes, etc. are gonna blow it up this year in the Tampa 2, but it is definitely more likely as it is the system most were drafted for. Only Miller and Crowder were drafted for different systems (Miller for Bates experiment, Crowder for the Broncos D). The players that were on the team last year did show improvement when switched back to the Tampa 2 system last year, so there’s no reason not to believe they would continue to improve if the Tampa 2 remains in place this year. That leaves the rookies that were drafted for the Tampa 2, and I don’t see why they wouldn’t be able to step in and perform in the system and techniques they are familiar with.
July 3rd, 2010 at 6:57 pm
thomas
Seriously? BJ Raji and Peria Jerry? Ok, if those are the two you chose. Jerry only played the first two games of the season, then never suited up again. He suffered a major knee injury and was on IR. Kind of impossible to have great rookie stats from the injured reserve list.
Raji? Ok, he only started one game. He and Ryan Pickett switched out at NT in a 3-4 defense for the Packers. So, he only started one game, how did he stack up to Pickett according to the Packers own web site? Pickett 47 tackles, Raji 36. Pickett 0 sacks, Raji 1 sack. For only one start, it looks like his stats hold up to the 10 year vet pretty good.
Dorsey was along the same line stats-wise his rookie year. 46 tackles and a sack. Year 2, the Chiefs switched to a 3-4 defense and moved him out to DE.
Understand as well, that DT’s don’t get the same amazing stat lines DE’s do. The most sacks by a DT/NT last year was 6.0. Three DT/NT achieved that last year. Babineaux in ATL, Ratliff in DAL and K Williams in MIN. Remember, Roy Miller had 2.0 sacks last year as a rookie DT for us. That’s pretty good for an interior D lineman, even better for a rookie, and even better for a 3rd rounder.
July 3rd, 2010 at 7:44 pm
BamBam:
Name the last rookie DT to make the Pro Bowl?
Capt. Dim:
I respect your fanatacism but please dont mistake it for realism. The point about my friend was he is an example of apathy. I know you Dim with your beer guzzling and nacho ingesting-self isnt going anywhere – good for you. Hell, the Glazers could dress up the local Pop Warner Midget team in pewter and red and tell you they were “rebuilding young ” and after a case of beer it wouldnt matter to you. Heck I wish there were more of you, then there shouldnt wouldnt blackouts. The fact Dim is that this team was turned into a laughingstock in a matter of months.
The faster we get rid of the bozos in charge, the faster the return to legitimacy!
All you idiots put WAY too much emphasis on systems. Sapp, Brooks, Lynch etc could all function well in any scheme. Sapp, like all other DT’s was overmatched for this first approx 18 games. Maybe, McCoy will be the exception, I hope he is, but betting on that for this year is foolish. To attribute struggles to scheme is a convenient excuse. 50% of all draftees fail – irrespective of scheme. The odds that all 5 of the DT’s, Wr’s and Lewis succeed – virtually 0%.
July 3rd, 2010 at 8:39 pm
Thomas said:
“Name the last rookie DT to make the Pro Bowl?”
LMAO. What does that even mean? We don’t need McCoy or Price or Miller to make the Pro Bowl. To improve over last year’s DT almost all they have to do is stay healthy.
July 3rd, 2010 at 8:46 pm
Thomas — I was laughing so hard at the Pro Bowl comment that I did not even get to this gem:
“The odds that all 5 of the DT’s, Wr’s and Lewis succeed – virtually 0%.”
So what? I mean no one — except you and Eric — thinks the NFL is going to cease to exist after this season. Some of the Bucs’ picks will succeed, some will fail, all in varying degrees, but there are more drafts and more players. That’s how it works. You do not flip a switch, you build. It takes time.
One thing we can say for sure about the odds is that it probably does not take that much drafting success to beat the performance of the prior regime, right. In that respect we have already improved I suspect.
July 3rd, 2010 at 9:10 pm
I will agree that the drafting of the prior regime was subpar. I cant say yet if the drafting of this regime is any better, noone can.
I know you sheep shamefully act as if you know how the two prior drafts will turn out, fact is we dont know yet.
I will agree with Steve White that it was idiotic to draft Price after McCoy being that they play the same position.
The build/take time argument is horsesh–. This is the NFL in the era of free agency w/ essentially no salary cap, you build by all means necessary and you can turn a team around in 1 year – if you have a clue and adequate $ committed by ownership.
July 3rd, 2010 at 9:44 pm
“Obviously, Jason Cole is a Genius…”
Is this the same Jason Cole who thought Hovan was still a Buc? Yea, that’s genuis material. @CaptTim, you sure that beer you’ve been drinking isn’t spiked with kool-aid???
July 3rd, 2010 at 10:18 pm
thomas
That’s absolutely ridiculous. How many rookies at any position make the Pro Bowl on average each year? There are 22 starting spots, plus special teams and backups and replacement Pro Bowlers due to injury or Super Bowl. Yet there are typically only one or two rookies to make it at any position. That doesn’t mean the other rookies were bad, just that they aren’t beating out the all stars yet.
If there are approximately 48 starting DT’s in the league (assuming half the teams run 4-3 and the other half run 3-4), and a rookie is 18th among them in tackles, that’s pretty good. If a rookie is top 15 in sacks, that’s pretty good.
The Green Bay Packers jumped from 27 sacks in 08 to 37 in 09. Is that due to a change to the 3-4? or possibly helped by Pickett and Raji taking turns at DT (even though Pickett and Raji didn’t contribute in sacks really).
Tampa went from 20 sacks in 94 to 25 in 95 (Sapp’s rookie year). Not a huge jump, but I would figure he contributed to the increase. Then they jumped to 35 in 96.
That shows that DTs can contribute to other players getting more sacks their rookie year, and that continued improvement on their part adds down the road as well. I don’t expect McCoy or Price to get 80 tackles or 10 sacks this year, but they could help Stylez G or Moore or Crowder or Miller get more than they did last year.
July 4th, 2010 at 7:01 am
Ah the pre-season excusses are flowing already. “Only have to improve over last year”. “There will be more seasons after this year”.
Really, that is what we have fallen to?
July 4th, 2010 at 8:42 am
Eric — anything short of a Super Bowl makes Morris a failure compared to Gruden, right? How about this: Gruden was barely over .500 so if Morris gets a winning record he is above the curve right?
You seem to only remember the first round playoff exists and conveniently forget the 4-12 and 5-11 seasons. More importantly, you forget that Dungy left Gruden with the most dominant defense of the decade (almost entirely drafted by the way). Gruden left Morris with . . . well . . . uh . . . half a team? Weren’t 9 guys gone that never really played in the league again?
If you want to be a hater that is fine, but shouldn’t you at least try to hate in the real world?
July 4th, 2010 at 8:50 am
Thomas, what it actually means is this. Since the Glazers bought the team, it has been sucessful overall. Five years of bad drafting have forced the team to spend a couple of years “restocking” the talent base. Every intelligent fan understands that an occasional “rebuild ” is a normal occurrence in the NFL, especially for teams that succeeded in Superbowl drives. No big deal, rebuild, regroup, resume the charge! Then their are the Thomas fans . . The Sky is Falling!! Everyone is an idiot! Everybody is gonna stop watching!! It’s the damn apocalypse!! Help us! I personally like to call those fans ” dumbasses”, just my Lil nickname for’em. The team pretty much revolted on Gruden, as soon as Monte Kiffin left. The Glazers realized they need a “players” coach to handle the rebuilt, after the tyranical regime of Gruden. Raheem worked miracles with our young secondary, developing and Coaching, so they figured, why not? Let’s see what he can do with the team! Time will tell, but it wasn’t a huge leap ta give him a shot! He knows the team, the schemes, and seems to excel at coaching young players. As for yer comment about watching anything in red and Pewter- BLOW MY SAIL! I’m smart enough to know this is a small storm, on a big ocean. I know for a fact that the Glazers take this teams success very personally. They fired Dungy or not winning playoff games, they fired Gruden for failing to develop young( Expensive!) talent to keep this team competitive, and believe me, they’ll fire Morris if this team doesn’t start being competitive real quick. I have confidence in the people steering the boat, and agree with the decissions the’ve made so far. So I, and the intelligent fans, will continue to support this team. You’re just another short sighted whiner! As soon as they start winning, you and yer fair-weather buddy will hop right back on board, swearing you’ve been loyal fans since ’76. I know who you are, and there’s a world fulla ya, bandwagon riders in good times, haters in rough times! Your nothing more tha that!
July 4th, 2010 at 9:13 am
Bandwagoners, Haters, etc all sounds better to me than your kind who I view as perpetrators and accomplices of the fraud being committed on this community:
The fraud is that this org is selling a “rebuild plan” (which you sheep are buying, even supporting) when in fact this is a “go cheap” plan until the Glazer kids stabilize their finances.
REMEMBER CAPT DIM, THIS TEAM IS NOT BEING RUN BY MALCOLM GLAZER, SO YOUR COMPARISONS TO YEAR’S PRIOR and PRE-MANU DONT APPLY.
Also, if you believe that the Bucs promoted Rah and Dom from within for any reason other than the fact that they are being paid an absurdly low amount (we think b/c the team wont disclose the salaries – the only HC in the NFL btw) then you are dumber than you sound!!
To say that Rah was anything short of Horrible and Embarrassing last year is absurd. To say that Dom (the guy who doesnt know the rules re Unsigned players) is anything other than in over his head is incredible.
Being a FAN doesnt mean that you have to be blind and brain dead.
July 4th, 2010 at 9:15 am
Funny Thomas, the team has turned into a laughingstock of the NFL? I’m here ion the Sailboat, anchored off Caladesi island, mimosa in hand, bikini lasses on deck, and the only thing I’m laughing at is YOU, har har har
Damn it, it is raining though:(
July 4th, 2010 at 9:19 am
Your laughing at me and your out on a boat iin this weather. Either not true or not smart.
July 4th, 2010 at 9:24 am
Thomas . . . you have conspiracy theories to support your conspiracy theories.
July 4th, 2010 at 9:30 am
If the league makes running the ball illegal , our defensive line should be AWESOME….in that case we could get away with both our tackles being undertackles…
July 4th, 2010 at 9:31 am
Thanks Jimbuc: and you have excuses supported by rationalizations.
I would rather be guilty of having a theory than an excuse. The fact is buddy: this will all be played out for the world to see right before our very eyes. I hope these guys are competitive but Jimbuc even your sheepa– knows better.
I know, I know, already, you are only concerned with 2012. You think that in today’s NFL in takes 3 horrible years to build a winner! That position my friend does noot rise to the level of a theory. That my friend is bulls-it.
July 4th, 2010 at 9:34 am
If the public in general is in agreement w/ the Jimbucs and Capt Dim’s of our community – then why has interest in the team sunk so low?
Please answer that. Can anyone actually argue that since the Dungy era has thiss community cared so little about this team? No.
The reason – we all feel that this team isnt competitive today. This apathy isnt necessary even in a true rebuild!
July 4th, 2010 at 9:49 am
Thomas — your are flat out loony. Interest in the team is down (as jusged by ticket sales) because they performed poorly last year and because this is one of the worts economies in recent memory. Believe me, don’t fool yourself into thinking your’s in the common view. You are plaented firmly on the lunatic fringe. That room you are sitting in is made of rubber and you are alone.
July 4th, 2010 at 12:10 pm
Thomas, if you’d leave the conspiracy websitesalobe long enough to get out of your house, you’d have gone to Tampa stadium in draft nite. Huge crowd of Buc fans. Fan appreciation night-huge crowd, larger than past years. But it’s good you didn’t go. You woulda stuck out like a sore thumb. Didn’t see one other person there running around with is head deeply embedded in his rectum. Again, don’t worry yer Lil head about the Bucs. We’ll be fine, and you can jump back on the bandwagon again, with yer Lil friend, as soon as yer feelings stop being hurt!!
July 4th, 2010 at 12:17 pm
Again, there’s no apathy, JoeBuc’s numbers are at an all-time high!! Lying won’t get any other “head in rectum” people to join yer Lil protest. Still just you and yer buddy, sittin there, staring up yer own butt, trying to get someone ta notice yer crusade.
July 4th, 2010 at 12:25 pm
And yes, I indeed am in my boat, and yes it is raining. But, much like the Bucs, I am sailing to calmer seas ahead. A little bad weather, on the field OR at sea, doesn’t scare The Capt into whining or giving up. It’s a big ocean, pal, and beautiful sailing is always nearby 🙂
July 4th, 2010 at 2:04 pm
Lunatic fringe
July 4th, 2010 at 10:52 pm
JImbuc,
Two division titles and three winning seasons the last four years. You are the one that Cherry picks the mans record, to support your position that Rah is a legit head coach.
He aint.
Gruden got no inherited defense in Oakland, and did very well there also………………….and won two divison titles here with players entirely different than Super Bowl year………………….
July 4th, 2010 at 11:46 pm
Eric — I think Gruden is a great coach. Never said he wasn’t. What I said was in between his “Two division titles and three winning seasons the last four years” he also had two seasons with no more than 5 wins and MORE IMPORTANTLY, the team TOTALLY DISINTEGRATED. When he got the team is was a Pro Bowl laden team. Brooks, Sapp, Rice, Barber, Lynch. He never replaced any of these players and, in fact, Barber is still here. So, where Dungy left him the best defense in football, Gruden left Morris a team that had NINE guys that never played again, many of which were at absolutely KEY positions. So, it is a little unfair to Morris to suggest that he should undo in 3/4 of a year what Gruden did over 7 years.
Worse than all of that, there was no chnage in sight. In his last interview before his firing, Gruden talked about bringing Garcia back. Great coach, maybe. Great team builder, not really. The very fact that you cannot admit THE OBVIOUS is proof that you are the least objective person on the planet. No need to even waste my time going forward. Best of luck. Seek professional help as soon as possible. Grief counseling and anger management would be a good start. 🙂
July 5th, 2010 at 5:13 am
Eric, your mancrush on Gruden is what’s destroying your relationship with Thoma. Let it go, or you and Thomas are going to be bitter Lil haters forever
July 5th, 2010 at 8:51 am
Gruden was and still is a great coach! Probably the best X’s and O’s person you’ll ever find. More passionate about pro football then anyone I’ve ever met. His biggest problem was he had no patience for teaching the basics. Bringing young guys up to the NFL level is a tough job. He wanted all his players to understand his comlicated play calling from day one. That just does not happen with rookies of even first year players. This is the number one reason why you have a GM that looks out for the long term interest of the team. Checks and balances over the head coach will give the team more long term success instead of good year bad year type of team. The GM also has the dirty job of cutting or trading popular players at the end of their prime. Gruden and Alllen were one in the same and did everything they could to win at all costs. The problem was in doing so they neglected the building process. You have to give them credit for trying to keep a winner on the field, but in the NFL if you don’t reload with younger talent it will catch up with you and this is the result.
July 5th, 2010 at 9:36 am
Well said Bucnjim