Team Glazer Had To Fire Chucky
June 13th, 2010
"Damn it, I can work with people! You think it's easy having to put up with Jaws passing gas for three hours every Monday night?"
Interesting piece of information shared by Woody Cummings of the Tampa Tribune recently. Seems as though when Team Glazer decided it wanted to build from the draft and go young, the biggest stumbling block was not the front office nor the scouting department.
The problem was Chucky, so noted Cummings in a TBO.com Bucs question-and-answer feature.
Q: Besides turning the team into a professional college team, what are the bucs doing different than Jon Gruden? From what I read and seen they running the same style offence as him and the same defense under Kiffen. Why couldn’t they fire bruce allen and get a GM/VP that Gruden couldn’t run over like Miami and Cleveland?
Jarrid, Spring Hill
A: The Bucs tried it once with a GM other than Bruce Allen, and it didn’t work. The other issue that led to Gruden’s and Allen’s firing has to do with their refusal to build through the draft and put a younger, faster team on the field. Both preferred using older players, which resulted in the Bucs constantly turning over their roster. In the eyes of the owners, they were never going to build a solid base. The difference now is that the Bucs are a younger, more talented team. They’re also a very inexperienced team, but the hope is that in a year or two the Bucs will have a team that will stay together and compete for a championship for a stretch of 5-10 years.
— Roy Cummings— Woody Cummings
Joe had heard that after Team Glazer came to the decision to jettison Chucky, it called Bruce Almighty in and told him to fire Chucky. Bruce Almighty refused, falling on his sword. He was then summarily fired and then Team Glazer got their hands dirty with Chucky.
Joe was unaware, but had a pretty good idea, that Chucky had the show and that Bruce Almighty was pretty much just his figurehead.
Joe always thought that Chucky would do well with a strong-armed owner such as Jerry Jones in Dallass or Little Lord Fauntleroy in Washington. Chucky is a helluva Xs and Os coach, but he needs someone above him to keep him in check.
June 13th, 2010 at 11:19 am
The owners did the right thing !
GruAllen were wrong ,IMO, with the keep the clunker going philosophy
June 13th, 2010 at 11:37 am
I like Chucky and Bruce more and more everyday after learning how this thing went down. The Glazers are not supposed to make FOOTBALL decisions – and certainly in Jon and Bruce’s minds the Glazers werent – the Glazers were making a $ decision – basically telling gruden and allen to “go cheap.”
Gruden and Allen were canned on principle (refusing to slash payroll and hope and pray for wins) and that frequently turns out as the right decision.
Gruden’s demand and value has never been higher, allen has a great job and will turn the skins around.
Meanwhile, well we are left to debate whether radio or mushmouth is the more appropriate nickname for our 3-13 coach. Well for dominik, i just feel bad for him, he is just a kid in need of some proactive who doesnt knnow any better.
June 13th, 2010 at 11:47 am
So I shouldn’t bother watching the bucs over the next 2 to3 years?
June 13th, 2010 at 11:49 am
i could see Allen and Gruden not on board for this, You know that the glazers were trying to pitch the “building thru the draft” speech. This is the equal to trying to tell Urban Meyer to Dump his softomore, Junior, and Senior class and then build thru recruiting. He would jump off the boat as well. An team building philosophy can work, If everyone puts effort into it. Lets not forget how long that the Chiefs and Lions have been “building thru the draft”.
June 13th, 2010 at 11:53 am
“Lets not forget how long that the Redkins have been “building thru the clunker big name replacement program”.
June 13th, 2010 at 12:00 pm
jeff hansen:
you should continue to watch the bucs for comedic purposes.
For example, you will see pop warner like displays – the coach chest bumping the players after a third quarter td to cut the deficit to 10 points. Throwing of the red challenge flag at the most inopportune times – untimely fake punts where the punter goes down like he was shot! Just follow #21 he is a comedy show in and of himself! Lets see how many asst coaches get fired, err scapegoated, this year. And oh the post-game press conferences, they are the best – some college kids play a drinking game where you have to drink a beer each time the coach Rah utters an intelligible word – this game is supported by school administration b/c it cuts out college drinking.
June 13th, 2010 at 12:14 pm
Thomas:
That’s simply not true. Who was negotiating the contracts? Bruce Almighty. Neither were fired for slashing payroll. They were fired because they didn’t want to go through a rebuilding project.
June 13th, 2010 at 12:47 pm
” They were fired because they didn’t want to go through a rebuilding project.”…..I couldn’t wait for the rebuilding to begin…..I prefer the chemistry that can only be developed thru the core group having overcome the same trails and tribulations…..which is what led to the Bucs of SB37
June 13th, 2010 at 1:00 pm
LMAO — Thomas (aka Travis Bickel) immediately running to respond to this article. Too funny. Eric must be in hiding somewhere. I am actually a Gruden fan, but this should be easy to accept by anybody that does not have an agenda. Of course, Gruden loved vets. We got to see it every day for years.
What’s baffling to me is why so many Bucs fans are against building through the draft when we have actually seen the philosophy lead to our only Super Bowl championship. 9 or 10 of the starting SB defense were draft picks. Gruden added to the offense to push us over the hump, but it was the drafted and developed defense that kept us competitive for a decade.
I understand that some are mad about “building through the draft” because they see it as a pretext for going cheap. That may be true, but hold your fire until 2011.
June 13th, 2010 at 2:06 pm
excellent JimBuc !
June 13th, 2010 at 2:21 pm
I understand what the Bucs mean by “building through the draft”, but doesn’t every team build through the draft?? It’s not anything special. All 32 teams HAVE to participate in it! All the other 31 teams are gonna have their draft picks, and a few of them are gonna have that PLUS their free agent moves.
First of all, I don’t like the people who are in charge of the rebuilding process. We’re walking on eggshells putting the fate of the franchise into these buffoons hands and risking setting the team back even more.
Second of all, I don’t like the attitude being displayed by the owners and staff. It seems like no one has any urgency to try to be competitive right now and is fine with “we’ll be in the playoffs in 3 years”. It’s a bunch of BS and I feel like a “losing mentality” has been created here again.
You don’t have to go through a freaking 2 to 3 year process to JUST get to the playoffs again. That’s ridiculous. Did the Dolphins, Falcons, and Saints do that? Maybe the Glazers and Raheem should follow their philosophy a little bit. Oh no, hall of fame coach Raheem Morris is smarter than everyone! The Saints built their team partly through free agency, and it got them a super bowl. They went from a rock bottom 3-13 in 2005 to 10-6 in 2006 in the NFC Championship game. Would you disagree with their way of building the team?? It doesn’t seem like things are short term with them. They’ve been good for 4 seasons now.
A good player is a good player and a bad player is a bad player. Building through the draft is ok, but it can’t be the only damn thing you can do. What’s wrong with experience and proven talent???? Not all your players have to be 23 years old. There were people in FA that weren’t that old. Quit thinking that so many of these people have to be around for Derrick Brooks and Barber years. It’s quite rare that a player even lasts that long with one team. You draft the players you want, and then you bring in free agents so you can still be competitive while the rookies are learning.
June 13th, 2010 at 2:26 pm
There is one MAJOR problem to this explanation: Dom and The Dream don’t have the expertise to rebuild an NFL franchise from the ground up. They are clearly learning on the job.
Think about it. If you’re the owner and you want to rebuild from scratch, who are you going to hire? Unless I wanted to go cheap, I’m going to hire someone with some experience because building a franchise from scratch is extremely tough.
Now, I know the apologists are going to rail that the owners aren’t cheap. OK, if they aren’t cheap, then the only other explanation is that they made a HUGE miscalculation (mistake) in hiring these guys.
June 13th, 2010 at 2:46 pm
LOL Louie. We fire Gruden….. and then we hire this guy??? Our new coach is.. who?????
That’s why when you’re applying for a college or for a job, you must submit a resume. They want people who have done things, not people who have a blank sheet of resume. Why?? They want to be confident that you’re going to do well at their school or workplace. So they need to have some reason to feel that way. Same thing here. What has Raheem done to make us feel comfortable or confident in him? On that January day in 2009, I just couldn’t think of a reason why they would hire Raheem. Yeah he acts cool and has a good smile….. but what has he actually done?
Everyone has to know that Raheem wouldn’t even be hired by another NFL team as the head coach. That job interview with the Broncos had to have been for the minority candidate interview purpose only.
June 13th, 2010 at 2:48 pm
The puzzling thing is this Joe, If the Plan was young and build thru the draft. Why did we trader a valuable 2nd round pick for a Tightend with known knee problems and made him the highest paid Tightend in the game? Then we signed a almost 30 year old running back, when that is an easy position to fill in the draft? these moves contradict what the Glazers had planned.
June 13th, 2010 at 3:08 pm
the-buc-realist — that is the best question and a very tough one to answer. It is almost like they tried to play both sides of the fence to start. In other words, its like they said “we are going to get some flashy players right now and try to win now while we rebuild.”
Patrick — all teams build through the draft to some degree but this team just came off a decade of defensive dominance that was built almost entirely through the draft, right? Simeon Rice was a FA but the rest of the SB defense were draft picks. Thus, the “long-term competitiveness” of the Bucs was draft-driven.
June 13th, 2010 at 3:17 pm
Louie — that is your opinion and you are entitled to it but it is, at best, premature and, at worst ill-informed. We have a few facts to actually look at. First, Dom is new to hisposition but he came up under Allen, McKay, Ruskell etc. Some pretty good team builders. Second, we have the first two drafts. Hard to know how the players will turn out, but we do know that Dom drafted much differently that Gru/Allen and, in fact, more like some of the better drafting GMs in the league. One example is actually Price, which is something the Gru/Allen Bucs would never have done. They never would have stayed true to their board. Third, we have Freeman. Perhaps too early to tell, but most seem to think that Dom and, more importnantly, Morris, were right on the money about Freeman. So, not sure you can say that they do not have the expertise to build a team, at least not yet.
Finally, perhaps even more important than expertise is WILLINGNESS. No way Gruden/Allen draft Freeman, no way they agree to rebuild, and their other moves speak for themselves.
June 13th, 2010 at 3:25 pm
the_buc_realist:
Asked the same question a year ago. Only thing I can guess is Dominik/Rah thought those guys could get them over the hump. Problem was, Ward didn’t get the ball that much and not even Winslow, his old man, Jackie Smith and Mike Ditka together could overcome the Jim Bates Experiment.
June 13th, 2010 at 3:34 pm
@JimBuc, thank you for allowing me to have an opinion. You typically don’t tolerate opinions that differ from yours.
My prior statement is especially true for Dominik. The Bucs hadn’t drafted particulary well for a number of years. Dominick was part of that culture. If I’m the owner, I ESPECIALLY don’t pick Dominik for GM. He was the least likely to be able to do the job.
Dominik was quite error prone last year (Clayton, Nugent & Ward deals) and it’s too early to tell if this year’s moves will work out or not. The jury is still out on his drafts. Only one player drafted last year started (Freeman) and that was after the season was lost. But, when Dominik was handed the GM job, it was a HUGE leap of faith.
June 13th, 2010 at 3:42 pm
Louie — “Dominik was part of the culture” — except you only attrribute to him the negative aspect of the culture? Even though he was a pro personnel guy, right? As I mentioned, his drafting so far was undeniably anti-Gruden/Allen, so I think we can actually assume that he was also part of the better part of that culture, right? In any event, pretty sure the Glazers would be better situated than you and me to know which part of “the culture” he belonged to, right?
June 13th, 2010 at 4:26 pm
@JimBuc: Whatever, I’m not getting into a pissing match with you. All I’m saying is based on what Woody said, Dominik and The Dream were clearly not ideal candidates at the time for the job the owners gave them (rebuild the team from scratch).
My personal belief was, and still is, that Gruden/Allen were fired because they were going to spend the $30M in cap space. Allen said exactly that a week before the firings. Whatever the reason, it’s done and we’re living with the consequences. I hope they’ll start winning again in the next few years, but I’m not holding my breath.
June 13th, 2010 at 4:30 pm
Louie — Right, you are believer in the conpiracy theory. Fair enough
June 13th, 2010 at 5:28 pm
I do not believe Woody Cummings knows what the hell he’s talking about. I can’t believe that Jon Gruden was given an ultimatum to rebulid, and that he refused to do it. Gruden loved his job and was heart broken when he was fired. I’m sure in the near future, after Gru’s Buc pay stops, we may finally hear his side of the story. As it stands, we haven’t heard the whole story from the Glazers, and I don’t know if I would believe them anyway. We haven’t heard from Bruce Allen, and we haven’t heard from Chucky. Who else was there and really knows how it went down. I think it’s all speculation and innuendo. As usual, TBO hacks suck again with more crap that is unsubstantiated, IMHO.
Woody, you hack, prove it. Name your source, produce the actual quotes, and back up your blithering bullshit.
June 13th, 2010 at 5:30 pm
I believe the 4 straight loss collapse, which Monty is to ultimately blame, cost Gru/Allen their jobs.
June 13th, 2010 at 5:41 pm
Gru/Allen were building through the draft, they just made some crappy picks, and don’t forget the 2-1’s and 2-2’s given up to Oakland. The difference is Gru/Allen tried to field a competitive team every year by filling the voids they could with free agents. Gruden’s team were also plagued by injuries every year since the Superbowl. They started every year with a contender, many to be decimated by injuries to their best players. Every team has drafts busts. It happens. Robert Ayers is a second string, 1’st round pick. Jamocus Pocus, bust. Has Darren McFadden panned out? Even the great Adrian Petersen has fumble fingers. Jon Gruden is a great coach and never should have been fired. Wings clipped, most definitely, but not fired. it was a stupid thing to do.
June 13th, 2010 at 5:56 pm
I think it has recently become clear that the only reason it APPEARED that Gruden liked older players , is because older players is all the Glazers were willing to pay for . After the purchase of Man U, they stopped forking out the cash for the top tier free agents.
Gruden could have sat on his ass and done nothing , and claim he is going to build through the draft( like the current regime) , but the team would have sucked as bad as it does today.
At least Gruden took the hand he was dealt and still tried to win , instead of folding and waiting for future hands.
The myth has been busted about Gruden only liking old guys . The real reason is the Glazers are broke , and only morons like Cummguzzilings are still blaming Gruden.
June 13th, 2010 at 5:57 pm
So the Bucs constantly turned over their roster under Gru/Allen because of their use of older players? Right… :rolleyes:
June 13th, 2010 at 5:59 pm
This is another example of how little Cumming’s thinks things out. Gruden played plenty of young players, i.e Michael Clanghands, but when they didn’t perform yes he did go to older more established players. What you had to do for Chucky was make plays. He could have cared less if you were young or old. He did prefer older QB’s though. It’s a shame and ironic when Kurt Warner became available, he had to go with Simms due to his prior years performance. It was time for a change, unfortunately as far as coaching has gone, it has been a change for the worse.
June 13th, 2010 at 6:01 pm
Amazing how defensive people are about Gruden
June 13th, 2010 at 6:42 pm
I’d like to change the subject and talk about Dungy…
no, wait – He’s not OUR coach and has nothing to do with the Bucs anymore EITHER.
You can tell news is slow – these topics come up often in the dead time.
/smartass hijack.
I’m just glad it was done – egotistical mananagment and coaching always ends up biting ones ass… as it did with Kiffin and Gruden.
Gru needed to move on… needed some humility – and he’ll come back and Coach the Browns or Seahawks next season… Just a guess obviously.
June 13th, 2010 at 6:49 pm
How many days until training camp?
June 13th, 2010 at 7:03 pm
I am glad that someone – I believe pointed out the ridiculous “build through the draft” idea. Every team participates in the draft – it is mandatory – every team does the best to draft the best players.
The problem here: most other teams supplement their drafts with need free agents and trades. Usually, vets either on your team or acquired from others beat out rooks. Approx 50% of drafted players are out of the league within 3 years. So the percentage of drafting a nfl quality player is less than largely not in favor of the team.
So, if you are like most teams – your draftees dont play until they are “better” than the vets in front of them. What the bucs did was cut almost “all highly paid” vets (except rah’s bf ronde) so that the rooks,sophs didnt have any competition. This was a decision grounded in money – most teams tell the GM to “make the roster as good as possible at every position. I know this from a person that worked in Dallas – they spend hours upon days analyzing each roster spot to see how they can improve (using every avail option) it.
A good example is Hovan, Sims and Wilkerson being let go! miller, mccoy and price were again handed jobs w/o having to compete for them. I know that many nflers will tell you that next year the rooks would have had trouble being “better” than those vets. So the teams skill-level may have downgraded up front for 2010. This isnt a move that a team makes if it is trying to have the most competitive camp.
You can build through the draft w/out slashing payroll, without walling-off free agency and trades for younger vets. It is undeniable that this “plan” has much to do with finances. It is their right to go cheap, it is our right to call them out for it!
June 13th, 2010 at 7:10 pm
BTW – Joe – I believe that it is a fair and reasonable inference from Cummings article that Gruden was axed b/c he didnt want to go young – which I and others and likely gruden heard to mean go cheap.
A head coach with Gruden’s resume never wants to hear anything other than “you and the gm have complete control within the cap to field the best 53.” Anything short of that sounds like owners more concerned about $ than winning making decisions that effect the playing field and coaches are judged by other teams and their value is set by perception and the public rarely nows that ownership has tightened the purse-strings to the detriment of the coach.
I stand by my interpretation! One day when Jags, Bates, Doug Williams, Gruden or Allen speak, we will learn the details – which I predict will be something like -when malcolm got sick the kids took over about the same time that Manu was acquired – and at that time decisions started to more relate to money than winning – so they hired these cheap bozos to ride out the gruden contract!
June 13th, 2010 at 7:18 pm
Thomas (aka Travis Bickel) said “I stand by my interpretation!” Wow, you mean Joe did not change your mind? Shocking
June 13th, 2010 at 7:22 pm
More from Thomas (aka Travis):
“and at that time decisions started to more relate to money than winning – so they hired these cheap bozos to ride out the gruden contract!” (and began to pay both Gruden and Morris and both Allen and Dom . . . uh . . well . . . . nevermind) 🙂
June 13th, 2010 at 8:22 pm
The only thing I agree with in the article is the “Gruden was a hell of an x’s and o’s coach”.
Gruden did “rebuild” the bucs after all the Super Bowl heros playing days and effectiveness wore down (except Mr. Brooks).
He won two division titles with an entirely different roster. And, contrary to conventional wisdom, there were young players who contributed to both of those two division title teams. He especially concentrated his efforts on rebuilding the aging offensive line “through the draft”. It is unfair to compare Gruden’s approach to the Redskins.
That being said, Gruden did like an experienced QB and wideouts to run his offense and had a lot of success in the league with that strategy.
Personally, Ill take Gruden, Mcnabb, Brandon Marshall, Holmes, and the defensive players we drafted, with Raheem running the defense.
I think the Saints/Falcons/Panthers might be a bit more worried about that combo.
June 13th, 2010 at 8:23 pm
Will one of the apologists please answer a question for me: If the Glazerhouse’s wanted to to rebuild with youth, then why did they extend Gruden/Allen’s contract at the end of the 2007 season?
It seems to me the amazingly brilliant Glazer boys would have determined at that point if Gruden was willing to rebuild with youth. If not, as Woody claims, then it would have been DUMB to extend his contract, right?
June 13th, 2010 at 8:37 pm
Hey Thomas,
You said “Hovan, Sims and Wilkerson being let go! miller, mccoy and price were again handed jobs w/o having to compete for them.”
If you really think that Miller, McCoy, Price, Moore are not going to Battle To Be on the Field? Why not?
Miller is now a 2nd year player with Moore having played as well. Miller looked IMO to be better then Sims and Hovan while playing as a rookie. I liked our pick last year of him and the fat that he is a familiar already with McCoy in the past is a plus. I really can’t wait to see them play together on the field. Miller and Price on the field is going to be fun to watch, So will Moore playing beside the rookies. Our interior line looks deep to me!
Come’on the other players had their time to show what they can do, and the results where? Wilkerson we will miss the others, No not at all
June 13th, 2010 at 8:38 pm
How was Gruden going to build through the drafts with the Mickey Mouse scouting dept??? Since when did Gruden have complete control over personelll the Glazers are full of SHIT
June 13th, 2010 at 8:46 pm
Yeah Eric,
I agree “Gruden was a hell of an x’s and o’s coach”
and with that line up and the DC job in Coach Morris’s hands. Our division and the league would have had to pay attention. All players who where available to be Bucs, (potentially)
My wish was it took a PH’D to run the offence, i understand it takes a smart guy to be QB in the NFL but so much verbiage? Could he not condense it some? Finally after how many years did he start using the Shotgun formation?
June 13th, 2010 at 8:46 pm
I don’t think gruden had a problem with young qb’s he had simms,gradakowski, and he drafted jj.come on guys we were a 9-3 team at week 12 with a qb contraversy griese/garcia. I feel most of the young movement was needed on defense ecspecially after the collapse. Gruden with raheems defense would of taken us back to a championship.
June 13th, 2010 at 8:50 pm
Woody Cummguzzilings by Radio Mushmouth.
That’s a good one. RM strikes again.
I agree Louie. It doesn’t make sense. They are incompetent owners on a good day, and suck on a bad day. But I like Mark Dominick even though he wasted about $30 Mil last season. I don’t understand not giving Penn something and I think Raheem will be a good defensive coach in time. I worry about Olson and the hole in his brain. Jon Gruden was a fantastic Coach and Derrick Brooks said it again today, that without Gruden getting the Bucs over the Hump, No Superbowl. Brooks said Gruden motivated him to great things and like no other. But who listens to Derrick Brooks? Who believes what he says? The Glazers sure as hell don’t. No Class. Someone should get Helen Thomas to do a report on the Glazers.
June 13th, 2010 at 9:03 pm
Damn, it’s pointless to expect some of you to digest information.
It wasn’t that Gruden refused to rebuild. It’s the fact them he, as his equally inept crony Allen, UNBUILT the team. They were horrible at drafting, couldn’t coach young talent, and refused to try.
If any of you believe this team had any long term playoff contender status, you aren’t qualified to post a comment. Our QB was 39, our recievers were 36 and 37, etc,etc. Gruden doesn’t coach football players.he let’s someone else coach them. Then, when they get cut ( to be replaced with young players- Are You Getting This?!?), then Gruden would grab them and try to squeak a couple more years out them. Gruden proved he can’t coach young players. PERIOD. Proved it in Oakland also!!!!
When we hired him, we had a top defense, and an average offense. Did we have that when he left?? NO, because he couldn’t draft or coach young players to replace aging Vets. Our offense and defense sucked, and were getting worse every year. The Glazers got tired of the bandaid approach. Good for them. Team finished in last place every other year, and could only win 50% of games on last place schedule
Gruden didn’t refuse to rebuild. We had to rebuild because of Gruden!! Hopefully we are deveoping a nucleus that will grow into a consistant. Contender in a couple years. We aren’t gonna win this year, we are still rebuilding. Cry, jump off buildings, quit watching, whatever you gotta do!!
But when you do, remember to Thank that lousy drafting Jon Gruden for it. They figured out the same thing in The Raider Nation. He left them gutted of young talent , too! How did that turn out?
I don’t know if Coach Morris is the answer or not, but by the looks of Talib, Jackson, Black, and others, he has so young talent looking like quality players. We’ll see
Either way, we ain’t contending for the playoffs this year.I hope next, if Freeman proves me right. They’ll be plenty of room to hop back on the Bandwagon then. Go root for Chuckys new team! Oh, no ones hired him yet?
Theres a shocker!! Some idiot will, then watch for yourselves!
June 13th, 2010 at 9:15 pm
Jimbuc commented:
“and at that time decisions started to more relate to money than winning – so they hired these cheap bozos to ride out the gruden contract!” (and began to pay both Gruden and Morris and both Allen and Dom . . . uh . . well . . . . nevermind)
If gruden didnt want to cut contracts like brooks, ike hilliard, galloway, june, dunn etc that totaled 30+ million, to be replaced by minimum contracts (all less than a mil) and by adding in Rah at virtually nothing and just promoting dom – the net is a huge gain for the bucs monetarily. You just have to think it through, which of course you must refuse to do to get to your rose-colored conclusions.
Also, the team is already out of the Allen contract and probably thought gruden would take another h.c. job and that would get them out of that contract also.
The team didnt want to fire allen, he disagreed with ownership about its plan so he essentially quit. Why would a h.c. “refuse” to adopt ownerships plan if he thought it was a sensible one and why the WM quit in support the H.C. after the decision to “refuse” to listen to ownership? The answer: b/c it is not a genuine football related plan.
Even you Jimbuc must think that Gruden and Allen are better “football” decision makers than Joel Glazer. If you cant admit that you are an idiot. If you can – well then – you can understand 3-13, 2 asst coaches fired, doug williams, etc – the guys in charge keep sending those w/ football experience out of the building because they are not in support of this foolish financially motivated “plan.”
June 13th, 2010 at 9:23 pm
Perhaps the funniest two sentences EVER of JBF:
“No Class. Someone should get Helen Thomas to do a report on the Glazers.”
Wow, calling the Glazers out for a lack of class and then following it up with that. Pot meet Kettle.
June 13th, 2010 at 9:24 pm
Louie — man, talk about trying hard to find a contradiction.
June 13th, 2010 at 9:27 pm
Travis (aka Thomas) said:
“If gruden didnt want to cut contracts like brooks, ike hilliard, galloway, june, dunn etc that totaled 30+ million, to be replaced by minimum contracts (all less than a mil) and by adding in Rah at virtually nothing and just promoting dom – the net is a huge gain for the bucs monetarily. You just have to think it through, which of course you must refuse to do to get to your rose-colored conclusions”
Travis, what do all those guys have in common? Brooks, hilliard, galloway, june and dunn were not cut to save money. None of them ever played another meaningful down again in the NFL. Geez. Do you . . . . never mind. Silly
June 13th, 2010 at 9:29 pm
Travis (aka Thomas): you’re shaving your mohawk a little to close.
June 13th, 2010 at 9:33 pm
JimBuc: “Louie — man, talk about trying hard to find a contradiction.”
That’s not being responsive to the question.
June 13th, 2010 at 9:36 pm
Captain Tim huh – sounds more like Captain Morgan to me. You been hitting the rum buddy! You must be a Duemig disciple – that sounds exactly the b.s. he was spewing about Gruden – b/c Gruden wouldnt give him access of course.
Couldnt coach young players huh? remember the team the bucs played in the super bowl – that was gruden’s team the year before – they had 6 or 7 key contributors under 26 (like woodson, harris, jerry porter, eric barton derrick gibson, also doug jolly and john ritchie)
BTW – Gruden/Allen drafted: Ruud, Talib, Joseph, Caddy, T-Jack). But I agree that there were too many busts. I have said repeatedly, I didnt mind firing Gruden if you were going to upgrade, a cowher-type, or a top coordinator for a big name – but instead we adopted the “go cheap” I mean “go young” philosophy.
June 13th, 2010 at 9:38 pm
Hey if the Israel and Hamas can get along, why can’t the Gruden and Rah supporters?
Whoops…………….
When does the season start so Rah’s team can start getting their asses handed to them and end all this speculation?
June 13th, 2010 at 9:44 pm
Misinformation again:
Galloway played for the pats last year and has signed with the redskins. June played for Houston until he was hurt I believe as the starter opening day.
Brooks could have played another year. Brooks had the opportunity to play last year but elected not to b/c he wanted more $ for the risk. Dunn is as good or better than ward so that was a waste of money and not an upgrade.
Ike was excellent at what he did, but his vet minimum did make him expendable.
June 13th, 2010 at 9:54 pm
Let me see if I can read between the lines for everyone. Simply put, Gruden didn’t like “young” QB’s because they couldn’t grasp his ridiculously complicated offense and verbiage. He (Gruden) liked old, veteran QB that had a fair notion of NFL offenses to begin with and then could improvise when they didn’t understand his call. The Glazers wanted a young high draft choice QB to be the face of the franchise that fans could rally around. Gruden didn’t want that, Allen didn’t want that (it would mean re-tooling the team with players around the QB and sound like “rebuilding”). The hiring of Raheem and Dominik was because they both agreed to go with what the Glazers wanted (a young “face of the franchise” QB) and build off of that.
The team has made trades (Reggie Brown) and free agent moves (Sean Jones). Last year they picked up Angelo Crowell (unfortunately the bicep injury kept him from playing), Derrick Ward (the highest rated FA RB last off season) and according to most sources made an attempt at least to bring in Haynesworth (although I’m glad they didn’t actually get him).
Maybe they haven’t made the exact moves YOU (as fans) wanted them to make, but you can’t argue that moves have been made through trades and free agency. The team is building through the draft (Freeman, Miller, Moore and Stroughter all played last year and more rookies should get action this year) and through other avenues.
The free agent market was extremely thin this year. For those of you who want to tout Brandon Marshall and Anquan Boldin, they weren’t UFA’s. Marshall was an RFA (requiring draft choice compensation, basically a trade), and Boldin was under contract (requiring a trade). The team was unwilling to give up the draft choices required to get those guys, which allowed us to get guys like Benn, Price, Lewis, and Williams. More holes filled by not trading for one of those guys.
Now, if a CBA is agreed upon and next off-season is “normal”, there will be a HUGE number of UFAs out there to be had. If the team isn’t a player in the FA market next year, then it would be fair to say “cheap” is the “plan”. But, for the past two seasons, the team has been preparing for the inevitable CBA uncertainty, and with one of the lowest salaries in the NFL will have a boat load of young talent and huge sums of money to add players that are finally available without compensation. Next year is the tell-tale year, not this year.
June 13th, 2010 at 9:55 pm
How many days until training camp – now?
June 13th, 2010 at 9:57 pm
You guys are like a bunch of old ladies at a bitch club. No one case what the other one thinks and no one is changing their mind because they’re right and the other one is wrong!
If ifs and buts were candy and nuts what a wonderful christmas it would be…
June 13th, 2010 at 9:59 pm
Reggie Brown and Crowell!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And Ward!!!!!!!!!!!!
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHA
Awesome!
June 13th, 2010 at 10:00 pm
Louie — your question was this:
If the Glazerhouse’s wanted to to rebuild with youth, then why did they extend Gruden/Allen’s contract at the end of the 2007 season?
The Glazer have not said they want to “rebuild with youth.” They said that the key to rebuilding is the draft. We do not know for sure, but one reason they might favor the draft is the the best extended period of success by the Bucs came by building a defense almost exclusively through the draft (9 of 11 starters were draft picks).
But, to respond directly, how does the 2007 extension create a contradiction? I guess you are saying because Gruden/Allen refused to draft players?? I don’t think that is true, I just think they did it poorly. Besides, Gruden and Allen were fired after 08. What am I missing?
June 13th, 2010 at 10:03 pm
Poor Travis. This is the weakest response ever:
“Galloway played for the pats last year and has signed with the redskins. June played for Houston until he was hurt I believe as the starter opening day.
Brooks could have played another year. Brooks had the opportunity to play last year but elected not to b/c he wanted more $ for the risk. Dunn is as good or better than ward so that was a waste of money and not an upgrade.
Ike was excellent at what he did, but his vet minimum did make him expendable.”
Back to the mohawk Travis . . .
June 13th, 2010 at 10:05 pm
BamBam – the 600 pound gorilla in the room is the CBA.
Personally I’m betting on a players strike – I don’t want to see it but after what happened to the AFL and with salaries OUT OF CONTROL, I don’t see any recourse for the owners but to shut it down.
Take Antonio Bryant as a perfect example – last year the dude pulls in 9.7 million. That’s NINE MILLION SEVEN HUNDRED THOUSAND or for the really challenged: 9,700,000.00 for what?
I’m sorry but that amount of money for a football player who had a really good prior year is just highway robbery.
Now I KNOW there are you out there who are gonna blast me for that but football has gotten way too expensive and just like the prices of laptops have come down, just like salaries for private workers have taken a hit so MUST NFL players salaries.
June 13th, 2010 at 10:09 pm
JimBuc/Joel
Don’t give the party line that the only way to get core players is to draft them together.
You’re smart enough to know that NFL drafted players get locked into lower contracts than FA’s. Sure there are the anomolies like the #1 drafted QB’s but round 2 and later picks are locked into multi-year contracts that are less expensive then signing players with 5+ years of experience.
Combine that with the upcoming strike/lockout and it’s a business decision disguised as propaganda
June 13th, 2010 at 10:11 pm
BTW JoelBuc – slipping in your arguments again? When you can’t defeat the argument change and attack the messenger? Maybe I was wrong and you are really James Carville?
June 13th, 2010 at 10:11 pm
Joe here,
Mr Lucky: Salaries out of control? Not on the Bucs. The floor dropped out and they’ve got on their dancing shoes. …
June 13th, 2010 at 10:12 pm
Travis — galloway was a complete nonfactor with the Pats. June enver played getting hurt in camp. he was picked up later by Chicago (Lovie Smith) and then let go. This is from the Chicago paper:
“The 30-year-old lasted two weeks on the roster, appearing in one game with no tackles. June appears to be on the brink of falling out of the league”
Brooks never played another down and it was not by his choice. Dunn never played another down. Hilliard is a coach. Garcia is out of the league. Griese, gone.
C’mon kid, step away from the mirror
June 13th, 2010 at 10:14 pm
Mr. Lucky — I never said “only,” but just look at your own team. The most successful period in Bucs history was the Tampa-2 era, which was a defense built almost entirely through the draft
June 13th, 2010 at 10:16 pm
Mr. Lucky — I am not sure what you are referring to:
When you can’t defeat the argument change and attack the messenger?
Who did I attack because I could not defeat the argument?
June 13th, 2010 at 10:33 pm
Joe – the Bucs are actually the poster child for NFL owners to reduce salaries in the future.
When the TV contracts come up for renewal it will be terse negotations – having the NFL network in the mix won’t help either, especially since it isn’t available in many markets; i.e., BrightHouse
June 13th, 2010 at 10:36 pm
JBuc while you may refer to the most successful Buc’s team being built thru the draft how do you explain the year of success that the Patriots have had?
Drafting is important but only 1 piece of the puzzle. In the case of the Bucs I believe that $ was more important than anything else.
June 13th, 2010 at 10:36 pm
@JimBuc, Glazerhouse’s gave Gruden/Allen a 3-year extension after the 2007 season — only 1 season before firing them. At that time, don’t you think a smart ownership group would understand the strategy of the GM and head coach and at least be on-board with that strategy for the term of the contract before parting with that kind of cash? What changed?
June 13th, 2010 at 11:04 pm
Mr. Lucky, I actually agree that draft is only 1 piece and that the Pats used FA, but that does not change the fact that the Bucs built initially through the draft and then added FA to get over the hump (if you think of 95 or 96 as the approximate starting point and realize that Hardy Nickerson was the start of turning the franchise around, but not the long-term Bucs success). It seems more reasonable to me that the Bucs would follow their same path, as opposed to following the Pats’ path. Let’s see what the Bucs do in FA when there is a new CBA.
June 13th, 2010 at 11:08 pm
Capt Tim-it’s a pleasure to read your comments.I intially thought Gruden walked on water when we won the SB,but it became increasingly clear after 6 years without a playoff win that a coaching change was needed.How come nobody mentions John Lynch being tossed to the curb by Chucky and Bruce.He was a leader and still had another 3 or 4 good years left.Yes I know he had a neck injury,but it didn’t seem to keep Shanahan from signing him.
June 13th, 2010 at 11:10 pm
Louie — contrary to what the lunatic fringe says around here, I am sure the Glazers just like most owners leave the football to the football people until things fall apart. Then, like most owners, they probably take stock of things and say “what has gone wrong?” When the Bucs collapsed at the end of 2008, particularly given that it was a defensive collapse, the Glazers probbaly looked at things and said, where have we gone wrong. The answer would have to be — the draft, giving up picks and no franchise QB. The last one being the death knell for Gruden because how would Gruden and Allen have replied, at the ned of ’08 when the Glazers asked them who their QB would be in ’09? Griese probably, right? Certainly not Freeman.
Could they have sacved $ by not extending them in 07? Sure, but I don’t see how the 07 extension is a contradiction with the “build through draft” plan.
June 13th, 2010 at 11:34 pm
It’s unbelievable how some people on here have been totally brainwashed by Raheem and co.
@Mr. Lucky
You along with many others need to stop saying that Antonio Bryant was a waste of money and did “not live up to his first year.” Maybe he didn’t have another 1,200 yard season, but he still contributed heavily. If you remember, he made a lot of aerobatic catches and had many big plays for us. Remember that he was HURT and out for a couple of games. He had over 600 yards and caught 4 TD’s. Don’t forget that in 08, he had to carry the whole workload as we had no other big play receivers. In 09, unlike the previous year, he had a lot of help from Kellen Winslow as he became the #1 go to guy. That’s not his fault. He was the same receiver with the same ability that he had in 08. There’s many reasons why his stats weren’t that amazing last year.
Determining whether he should’ve been kept or not based on the damn 1 YEAR TENDER performance is a bunch of BS. It would’ve actually been smarter money wise to give him a real contract. Spread the 9 mil out over 2 years, not one!! Or what they could’ve done is given the 5 YR 25 MIL deal to him instead of Clayton, a contract he deserved MUCH more. 25 spread out over 5 years, that’s much better than putting 9 MIL all into one season. I don’t believe any of the crap about him demanding too much $. He would’ve taken it. Didn’t the Bengals give him the same exact contract we gave Clayton??!! For AB, that’s very reasonable.
In an article earlier, it was said that the Bucs thought Preston Parker may possibly be another “golden nugget” pick up for the team. Well, Antonio Bryant was one for sure. When Gruden picked him up, he was a nobody. Very average receiver and he shined. He was a hidden gem and Raheem your majesty just threw him away. A receiver of his caliber was a rare thing for the Bucs.
The Glazers are IDIOTS!! Raheem and Duminick are idiots!!! The whole staff is has a screw loose.
June 13th, 2010 at 11:46 pm
Chucky and Allen are like your ex-girlfriends from years back that you recall how wonderful they were and how much fun you had and things were perfect and you just plum forgot why things didn’t work out in the end but after you take your memory pills you should have that, “oh sh*t” moment where you start to realize all of their flaws. The selective memory thing happens to the best of us but believe you me the same people who are looking in the rear view mirror with a serious Chucky/Allen tag team mancrush are the ones that were railing on them when they were here and the team wasn’t doing well. Oh yeah, and the wannabe mancrush on Cowher…so you’d be thrilled to dump $6+ million on him a year to do what? You think he adds W’s to the record this year- not so much. Where are Cowher and Chucky coaching this year? I forgot. We should be more like the Redskins- they “make it rain” with free agents like Ray Lewis used to make it rain at Mons Venus and The Gold Club in ATL except Ray when all was said and done had more to show for it. Skins were still terrible. Can someone tell me all of the huge free agent pickups that Cincinnati had which made them improve?
June 13th, 2010 at 11:56 pm
Jim Buc always has something to say to somebody. How bout this JimBuc. (comment edited for naughty words and hate)
June 14th, 2010 at 12:09 am
BigMacAttack — judging from your response, I guess you recognize how stupid (and anti-semitic) your comment was. Kind of proud to be told to f-off by a bigot. Thanks.
June 14th, 2010 at 1:06 am
75
June 14th, 2010 at 1:11 am
BigMac, you’re better than that. As Ron Burgandy says, “Stay Classy (San Diego)” then again he later says “Go F-yourself (San Diego)” so maybe that’s not the best suggestion. Anyway, by no means am I hurling insults, I just think we need not curse and insult each other. Why don’t the two of you have a summit at the white house and discuss your differences over a beer but in this case go to Mugs. No reason to be so angry, if anything you should be amped up about the summer- we start with a clean slate and until the L’s start piling up which I hope and don’t think will be the case why not relax, enjoy the ride and have some fun, we still are all Bucs fans. I’m sure you’re a decent fellow and a contributing taxpaying member of society. Let’s save the anger for the opposing teams instead of all the friendly fire. Let’s not lose the passion but redirect it in a positive way- maybe Joe can organize a barbecue or a fish fry or wings and beer night for all of us.
June 14th, 2010 at 8:08 am
@Patrick – your statement about AB, I pretty much agree with you on that. The point I was trying to make about AB was that certain players are “demanding” excessive amounts of money as compared to other players on the team and it can create some disparity.
I totally agree that Clayton’s contract should have been given to AB and not Michael.
For the Bucs OL look at how much Faine is making compared to the other guys:
Faine: 8 million
Trueblood: 850k
Joseph: 1.7 million
Zuttah: 570K
Penn: 2.8 million
Think something is outt wack?
June 14th, 2010 at 8:39 am
Thank you, Lakeland Bob
Sometimes I forget that the haters here, though very vocal, make up a tiny minority of the fans. I believe most Buc fans are very smart football people,and understand what’s being accomplished here.
I too was happy when the Team hired Gruden, but after seeing the trail of Ruin behind him, I realize the huge flaw in his coaching style.
As for the Glazers being cheap. Ugh, I’ll go over this again. Bruce Allen and Chucky had TOTAL authority over this team. Signing whoever they wanted. Both of them have said that. Joe stated the exact sane thing in this post. The only input the Glazers had, was to desperately keep sugesting that they needed to develop young players(qb’s,WR’s,DL,etc), which Chucky REFUSED to do. That is exactly the problem they mentioned at the press conference when they Finally canned his ass. If they are to be faulted, it’s for being to LOYAL to him and his massive ego.
I know the haters still can’t understand this, but here’s why our payroll was low for years. A young , Franchise QB is expensive( what the Glazers repeatedly ASKED for). Same for young WR’s,DT’s,OT’s, etc). Young talented players rate top dollar. We didn’t have any young, talented, expensive players. BECAUSE Chucky couldn’t draft them, and WOULDN’T coach.
The Players HE WANTED were over the hill vets.
Garcia( who I liked) was cut by the eagles, hilliard by the Giants, etc. Garcia was a PRo bowler. . TEN YEARS AGO in San Francisco!! How much money could he, or the other OLD guys really ask for, considering they all had just been cut to make way for younger players???
Answer- Not much
the Glazers fired Chucky for not developing young (EXPENSIVE) talent. If you want to go cheap, Chucky is the MAN. But the strategy will ruin your team!!
Dont believe me? Check out OAklands payroll during the Chucky years, when he started, top six. When he left, bottom ten! Same plan,same result. And no one accuses Al Davis of being Cheap!
Once we sign all of this years draft picks. Our payroll will be in the upper half of the league. Nothing is more expensive than Rookie contracts, yet Dominck tried to collect every draft pick he could. That is NOT the actions of a team trying to go “Cheap”.
Its exactly the opposite. Low Payroll? Bad problem, WRONG Villian!!
June 14th, 2010 at 8:45 am
JimBuc, it is what it is. Your annoying, long winded, never ending, trash talking, over bearing, commentary are the least of my concerns. You ramble more than Daryl Waltrip.
Mr Lucky, how much was Davin paid in his first 2 years? I think his contract was front end loaded, Trueblood as well. Outa whack for sure, but it always seems to come back to where a player was drafted in most instances, or if he was lured away from another team by big bucks.
June 14th, 2010 at 8:51 am
And after that last post, if any of you STILL don’t get it, you should walk down to The beach. Then you should bury yourselves up to the neck.
There you should wait, until soon you can use your hollow heads as oil filters, to help out BP
At last, your heads would finally be functional. And you would finally be contributing something useful to the Bay Area 🙂
June 14th, 2010 at 8:55 am
Why am I not shocked that these comments on this thread are still going?
Joe – if you check it out, The Buccaneers had the HIGHEST MEDIAN SALARY in 2008.
http://content.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/salaries/mediansalaries.aspx?year=2008
Value for money (per player) in the top 6?
TB – $1.4M = 9-7 no playoffs (Gruden fired in 2009)
SD – $1.3M = 8-8 lost divisional (on the cusp of a title run)
DA – $1.3M = 9-7 no playoffs
SF – $1.3M = 7-9 no playoffs (Singletary’s first year of rebuild)
NO – $1.2M = 8-8 no playoffs
BU – $1.1M = 7-9 no playoffs (Juron fired in 2009)
Here’s another supporting article about team ages in 2008…
http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/spt/columnists/rgosselin/stories/092108dnsponflcenterpiece.8efc09.html
Tampa was the 28th OLDEST team in the league.
Only two teams made it into the playoffs that were older than us (and SIGNIFICANTLY more talent-laden) (Pittsburgh and Dallas)
If I’m an owner, the clear messages I get and make decisions based on are:
1. We’ve got too many expensive vets who aren’t being productive (or a wrong mix.) Hello 9-7 mediocrity.
2. We’ve patiently waited for some good drafting and signs of improvement – that was for naught and now we have an old team and are talent deplete.
3. The organization is fractured (defense/offense) due to ego.
4. Kiffin (one of the two am-ego’s) is bailing and already working on recruiting for his next job.
5. We need to rebuild – on the cheap/cost effectively due to the coming CBA issues.
6. We’re going to have to do this (rebuild) a different way. A ‘big name’ coach/has been isn’t going to come here cheaply. The $ required to completely re-do the organization is prohibitive. We have to identify our strongest candidates from within the organization.
7. Fans are going to be pissed – we have to have the stomach to stick to this for 3 years. If the CBA isn’t worked out by 2012, we’ll of had enough time to see if this plan works.
8. The league is getting younger (as detailed in the Gosselin article.)
9. We need a QB, a star power QB to bring in more revenue – our coach only uses veterans.
10. Economy is crashing. Pull the cord now.
So – yeah, it’s our right to bitch as fans. But to ignore the obvious makes one ignorant.
Patience is not a fanatic’s virtue.
June 14th, 2010 at 9:53 am
Amazing how the one guy who brought the franchise its one lasting moment in the sun is treated with such disdain by bucs fans.
Enjoy the losing, you folks richly deserve it.
June 14th, 2010 at 10:08 am
BigMacAttack — I may be all those things, but it was YOU, not me, that wrote this:
“No Class. Someone should get Helen Thomas to do a report on the Glazers.”
I just commented on it. Did not even identify you or call you out.
Way to own it. Lot’s of comments about me, but none about you. You should be proud.
June 14th, 2010 at 10:12 am
Yeah, I agree. That free agency thing never works. Thank God that new coach the Bucs got in ’02 didn’t think he was inheriting a putrid offense. And thank God he didn’t go out and sign Joe Jurevicius, Keenan McCardell, Michael Pittman, Ken Dilger, Kerry Jenkins and others in an attempt to improve. Whew, thank God the Glazers are committed to building through the draft.
June 14th, 2010 at 10:15 am
9 years ago…
Nine. Years. Ago.
June 14th, 2010 at 10:23 am
Obviously Not Any Surgeon,
The Dallas article, written in ’08, mainly focuses on the youth of the Chiefs. With your obviously impressive googling skills, could you provide us with the Chiefs’ record subsequent to this article about their “youth movement” and whether or not it paid dividends for them? Thanks in advance.
June 14th, 2010 at 10:24 am
Chucky?
Two division titles, three winning seasons, within the last four years ……….
Rah?
3-13 one year ago, one year ago, one year ago……………………….
June 14th, 2010 at 10:30 am
As a fan of the team, the truth hurts sometimes. I can ‘google’ with the best of them.
The article supported and was linked due to the list of team ages and what we were paying for an old and beginning to be unproductive (at the end of the year) team.
Your comment, Lightning, is somewhat facetious.
June 14th, 2010 at 10:32 am
The absolute weakest response is to take everything to any extreme to illustrate your point and then to leave out absolutely essential facts. Witness this comment by lightningbug:
“That free agency thing never works. Thank God that new coach the Bucs got in ‘02 didn’t think he was inheriting a putrid offense. And thank God he didn’t go out and sign Joe Jurevicius, Keenan McCardell, Michael Pittman, Ken Dilger, Kerry Jenkins and others in an attempt to improve. Whew, thank God the Glazers are committed to building through the draft.
First, no one ever said that free agency NEVER works. Silly. Free agency has its place. Second, if you want to pull out the SB free agents on offense as an example of free agency working, don’t you have to also mention that the defense, which was the cornerstone for a decade of competitiveness, was built almost entirely by the draft? The SB defense had just two free agents in the starting lineup. Rice, a stud, and Spires, a roll player.
So, if you were a little more fair in your commentary, you would have reached a reasonable conclusion. Successful teams usually (not always) build a core group of players through the draft and then add key free agents. Witness the Bucs, who created the Tampa-2 with almost exclusively drafted players and who won a SB with that same all-draft defense (save Rice and Spires) and a bunch of free agents on offense.
Simple, if you don’t go over the top . . .
June 14th, 2010 at 10:38 am
JimBuc, so that wasn’t you that called me a bigot, first, before I made any comments regarding you. As far as your comments go. You post about 100 comments to every one by any other fan here, except Eric and then it’s about 10-1. Jim Buc is the official Blog Daddy and every word by Jim Buc should be held in the highest regard of Buc Fandom. You are my everything and I live for your 24,7,365 comments regarding every article and every comment from every poster about every article and every idea. Jim Buc, you are the Great and Omnipotent One. You are God and I bow down at your feet, oh Supreme Blog Daddy. Please forgive me for daring to say anything against Thee. I serve at the pleasure of Jim Buc the Great.
June 14th, 2010 at 10:44 am
BigMacAttack — you have the timing backwards. Suggest you look more closely.
June 14th, 2010 at 10:47 am
BiMacAttack — pretty hard to see how you would get the timing wrong. You made your comment about the Glazers. I commented (without naming you) by pointing out the hypocrisy. This is what followed (of course without the edit):
BigMacAttack Says:
June 13th, 2010 at 11:56 pm
Jim Buc always has something to say to somebody. How bout this JimBuc. (comment edited for naughty words and hate)
JimBuc Says:
June 14th, 2010 at 12:09 am
BigMacAttack — judging from your response, I guess you recognize how stupid (and anti-semitic) your comment was. Kind of proud to be told to f-off by a bigot. Thanks.
June 14th, 2010 at 10:55 am
JimYuc,
Thanks for stating the obvious. That was the ENTIRE point of my post. A successful team can NOT be built solely “through the draft” or by “going young”.
June 14th, 2010 at 11:03 am
When a team says they are going to “build through the draft” (which all teams do) or “go younger” it is actually code speak for “we’re probably going to suck this year”. Now, JimBuc, I didn’t say I want the Bucs to suck this year, it’s just my opinion of what the phrase equates to.
June 14th, 2010 at 11:12 am
C’mon guys, Joe gets graded on his hits!
We need to get this to 100!!!! 😉
June 14th, 2010 at 12:23 pm
lightningbug — so you are posting your comments even though no one disagree with them? Interesting. 🙂
June 14th, 2010 at 12:36 pm
cuBmiJ,
I’ll try that since maybe its dyslexia that causes your reading issues. My post was in reference to Rocket Surgeon’s that the league is going younger, or becoming younger, or whatever he was trying to say.
June 14th, 2010 at 12:40 pm
Actually, Lightning – your comment was about the chiefs… which has no bearing here…
98
June 14th, 2010 at 1:12 pm
Really? My initial post after your “10 steps to Bucdom” was about the Chiefs?
“Yeah, I agree. That free agency thing never works. Thank God that new coach the Bucs got in ‘02 didn’t think he was inheriting a putrid offense. And thank God he didn’t go out and sign Joe Jurevicius, Keenan McCardell, Michael Pittman, Ken Dilger, Kerry Jenkins and others in an attempt to improve. Whew, thank God the Glazers are committed to building through the draft.”
Only after you responded that that was 9 years ago (your math, not mine) did I then discuss YOUR article about the Chiefs.
June 14th, 2010 at 1:28 pm
CumBuc, I told you to F_ck off, and if you weren’t calling me out personally then who was it? I didn’t call you a name, I just told you to F_off. You called me a bigot, and you don’t know the first thing about me, where as you post so much info, so frequently, and much about your Super Soccer career that we all know who Jim Buc the Great is. Now if I would have said Jim Buc, go F_ck yourself, Dousche Bag, then that would have been name calling. So just so that I can make things right. Jim Buc “Go F_ck Yourself, Dousche Bag!” I hope that is better and brings clarification.
What about Helen Jim? She did recently make a somewhat Anti Semitic comment, but she has also been a hardcore bitty for eons and always has asked probing questions that Presidents generally don’t like to hear, but end up having to answer. You are the one that brought up the bigot, and Jew Hate from YOUR interpretation of my comment, which tells me that based on your response that you are the closet Anti Semite.
June 14th, 2010 at 2:15 pm
BigMacAttack — my last words on this subject unless you continue:
The only thing worse than your original comment is being to chicken spit to own it. Look at all the effort you are making to run away from your comment. You are trying to say that I called you a name first. FALSE. You are trying to say tha telling me to “F” off is not the same as name calling. WHAT DIFFERENCE DOES THAT MAKE? And, then on top if it all, you saved the best for last, I almost cannot type it without laughing, you actually are such a chicken spit that you say:
“You are the one that brought up the bigot, and Jew Hate from YOUR interpretation of my comment, which tells me that based on your response that you are the closet Anti Semite”
My “interpretation” of your comment. LMAO. That is pathetic. At the risk of stating the absolutely obvious, what made you choose the name of Helen Thomas? Of all the reporters that have asked “hard core question of Presidents,” why Helen Thomas? What is the connection between Helen Thomas and the Glazers, BigMacAttack?
Your slur is here for the world to see. People can make their own judgments, though it hardly takes any judgment. People will also judge for themselves what kind of person you are to make that kind of comment, on a football website no less, and then to run from it like a little school girl. You are too sad for words.
June 14th, 2010 at 2:44 pm
What is the connection between Helen Thomas and the Glazers?
They all look like the Wicked Witch of the West.
June 14th, 2010 at 2:53 pm
And I, having read every post made on this article, still stand by my earlier suggestion.
Alot of you should be down at the beach, buried to the neck, waiting to serve you community by utilizing your otherwise unused heads for Oil Filters
And nothing I’ve read here has changed my opinion in the least!
June 14th, 2010 at 2:55 pm
lightningbug — I assume you know, so I will let BigMacAttack explain, if he wants to. Not my intent to keep the discussion going.
June 14th, 2010 at 3:47 pm
Rear Admiral Tim
I am here in my sand bunker – brought the laptop with me. No oil to filter as of yet. But I did just see you and JimBuc walking hand in hand, frolicking in the ooey, gooey Gulf with nothing on but those cute little banana hammocks.
June 14th, 2010 at 3:57 pm
lightningbug — I am guessing you are 12 or 13 years old? You always go for the same lame stuff. Very little football, just a bunch of lame shots. Whatever works for you.
June 14th, 2010 at 5:38 pm
JimBuc, I thought it was funny, so I said it. You took offense and I got caught by the Blog Police. I tried to defend it, but I can’t. Maybe it’s thick skin, but honestly, what do you think the Palestinians call the Jews? It’s a helluva lot more than what I said, and that was only by implication. I tried to slip it under the rug, and got caught climbing in the window. It has been a few years for me, but I would fight and defend Israel tomorrow. I wonder if the HMFIC in DC feels that way. Doubtful.
“If you run around telling Helen Thomas jokes for a living, you might just be a Redneck.”
June 14th, 2010 at 6:22 pm
JimYuc,
You asking if I’m 12 or 13 is a bit creepy. Sorry for all the lame stuff and that I don’t talk enough “football” for ya. I guess I’ve missed all the football that’s been played lately to comment on. And you’ve already dissected the CBA/RFA situation ad nauseum. It must suck going through life with absolutely no humor in one’s life. Despite all the money involved, this is still just a bunch of grown men in tight pants throwing and kicking a ball while playing a GAME. No need to be so serious all the time. My stuff is just sarcasm, not meant to be offensive. I’ll direct my lame postings elsewhere and leave you alone.
June 14th, 2010 at 10:08 pm
Damn, lightningBuc, I didn’t see there at the beach, buried up to yer neck in the sand. You shoulda yelled, I woulda stopped by to say hello!
Plus then I wouldn’t have had to walk Way over that port-a-let to take a piss 🙂
June 14th, 2010 at 10:45 pm
Looks like Chucky lives on in Tampa Bay, love him or hate him, he gets the most comments.
Joe, do you send hm a check?
June 14th, 2010 at 10:51 pm
Joe here,
You mean does he send you a check. 😉
June 15th, 2010 at 5:27 am
He probably tucks the check under Eric’s pillow, as he let’s himself out in the morning:)