Don’t Expect Ronde Barber In Hall Of Fame
June 5th, 2010
There are few bigger fans of Ronde Barber than Joe. What’s not to like about the guy?
Last year, in the final stage of his professional career, many didn’t believe Barber could play in the horrid abortion known as the Jim Bates Experiment, thinking Barber is nothing more than a system cornerback.
Instead, Barber was pretty much a stud player, one of the few Bucs to have played well within the nasty Jim Bates Experiment.
Despite this, Vacation Man, of Stalinist BSPN, better known in most circles as Pat Yasinskas, answeres a question dealing with Barber and the Hall of Fame without showing Barber much love.. In short, if Yasinskas ever has a vote in the Pro Football Hall of Fame, he likely won’t cast a ballot for Barber.
Nate in Palmer, Alaska, writes: I do believe Ronde Barber one day he will be in the HOF. The only thing Ronde is lacking compared to a guy like Deion Sanders who is almost guaranteed the HOF is some height (4 inches)and a big mouth. Barber unfortunately had the luck of playing for a semi-sour Bucs squad for a lot of his years, a lack of playoffs and, National media coverage. I don’t believe he is 1st ballot HOF but I believe in looking at him as a player and person in the NFL, he has the HOF stats, he’s played hard, he’s a classy guy, and he is a positive representation of the NFL. Maybe that isn’t what gets a person to the HOF though.
PY: All valid points. Ronde got some national exposure back when his twin brother, Tiki, still was playing. He also got plenty of attention when the Bucs were good. But the Bucs weren’t all that good when Barber first joined them and it took him a few seasons to make a real impact. He then went into a very productive stretch that forms the basis of his argument to be a Hall of Fame candidate. The problem I see there was the Bucs won only one championship and a lot of people view Barber as a system player, who benefited from playing Tampa Two in Monte Kiffin’s scheme with Warren Sapp, Derrick Brooks and John Lynch there to help him look good. I respect Barber’s durability, but 3-13 seasons with no interceptions aren’t the best way to put the final touches on your résumé.
In Joe’s eyes there are two locks from the Bucs who will make the Hall of Fame and one guy who likely will as well: Derrick Brooks, Warren Sapp and John Lynch, respectively.
Joe believes Barber may get in, but it will be a while. While Barber has the stigma of being a system cornerback, can’t that also be said for a lot of players in the Hall of Fame? Wasn’t Joe Montana a system quarterback? Wasn’t Lawrence Taylor a system linebacker?
Besides, Joe believes Barber proved last year in the heinous Jim Bates Experiment, in the twilight of his career no less, that he could have played in just about any defensive scheme.
June 5th, 2010 at 3:19 pm
If Barber doesn’t eventually make it into the HOF then I don’t know what’s wrong with the system. He’s the only CB in the history of the game to make as big an impact in the pass rush game as he did, no one else is even close. He made the 2000’s all decade team, and had an MVP worthy performance in the NFC Championship game the year the Bucs won the Super Bowl. I can’t think of any reason why he shouldn’t make it.
June 5th, 2010 at 3:26 pm
System Shmystem..it’s not Ronde’s fault he played in a certain system. He can only control how he played in that system and he was awesome for a long time.
He may not get in but he was been one of the 4 best players on that defense that dominated for a long time.
June 5th, 2010 at 3:29 pm
Also Pat is full of crap he said…
“But the Bucs weren’t all that good when Barber first joined them”
He joined the team in ’97. If i’m not mistaken they were pretty good from that year on and starting in ’98 Ronde was a huge part of it.
June 5th, 2010 at 3:39 pm
d-money:
Bingo. Well written.
June 5th, 2010 at 4:26 pm
I think Barber should get in. Been a great player for a long period of time. Pat was definitely wrong. The Bucs were 10-6 his first year. 9 out of 13 years, the Bucs were .500 or better. That is a good track record. I guess you can say he was a system player. But he was never in another system, so how can you find out.
I don’t think Montana or LT were system players. Montana almost led KC to the SB after he left SF. LT was just plain great. He would have thrived in any system. Matt Cassel could be a good example of a system player. Alvin Harper is another good one. Tim Tebow is another good case study. Actually all the QBs and many of the WRs under Spurrier at Florida were system players.
June 5th, 2010 at 4:50 pm
Eric S:
Montana was a perfect fit for Bill Walsh’s West Coast offense. Would he have had as much success, say, playing for Don Shula in Miami or Chuck Noll at Pittsburgh who ran very, very different offenses?
Remember Kansas City’s offensive coordinator at the time was Paul Hackett who was a Walsh apostle.
Would LT had as much success playing outside linebacker in a 43-defense instead of a 34 where he got to blitz on virtually every passing down? Would LT been any better than, say, Derrick Brooks or Jack Ham, as an OLB in a 43?
(Joe believes had Brooks played in the same kind of defense that LT played in, Brooks would have been as good if not better than LT.)
Not taking away from either guy. They were among the greatest. Joe’s just making the point one could just about label any player a “system player.”
June 5th, 2010 at 6:05 pm
Probably not….but he’ll be on the Bucs Ring of Honor or what ever they call it….
OK Lee Roy is there…..now I say the Class of 2010 induct 5 names starting from the old days
June 5th, 2010 at 6:10 pm
If Ronde keeps getting run over by the big Carolina Running Backs, this is going to be all some people remember.
June 5th, 2010 at 7:08 pm
I think Ronde will have a good year in 2010, especially since we’re staying with the Tampa 2. His poor play, along with everyone else, was a result of the disastrous Bates scheme. Had we been playing the Tampa 2 the whole year, he likely would’ve had a couple INT’s, along with other big plays. He definitely can still play. Back in 08 he had a good year with 4 INT’s and that wasn’t too long ago.
June 5th, 2010 at 7:20 pm
Montana would have flourished under Shula. Shula always tailored his offenses around his players (Unitas, running game with Csonka/Morris, the scrambling QB of Woodley, Marino) instead of the other way around. I think he would have done well with Noll as well. Noll went from a potent running attack to a more passing attack later in Bradshaw’s tenure. And LT did go to the right place. He still would have been pretty good wherever he went. I am curious to see what Barber would have done in a different. He did seem to play relatively under Bates. I would put him in the Hall with Brooks, Sapp and Lynch. They should put Monte in as well, but I don’t know if they honor assistant coaches. That’s a shame.
June 5th, 2010 at 7:29 pm
Derrick Brooks is a first ballot HOF’er because he was the protoype for the Wil linebacker in the Tampa-2. Barber is not a HOF candidate becasue he was the prototype for a CB in the Tampa-2.
June 5th, 2010 at 8:24 pm
I’m a huge Ronde fan and he’s borderline to me. Same with Lynch. Greats guys, I just don’t think they’re quite on the level of Sapp and Brooks.
June 5th, 2010 at 9:02 pm
The “system” argument is stupid. I’ve heard the same crap used against Sapp. All players are “system” players in one way or another. Isn’t Derrick Brooks a “system” linebacker? I doubt anyone doesn’t vote him in…
June 5th, 2010 at 9:26 pm
Brooks and Sapp are sure things. I am pretty sure Lynch will get in. It may take a few years, but I do think Barber gets in. Ira Kaufman is the rep for the Bucs for the Hall. That is the most important person for Barber because Kaufman will be the one arguing for him.
June 5th, 2010 at 10:50 pm
Eric S:
Noll went from a potent running attack to a more passing attack later in Bradshaw’s tenure.
Don’t tell Father Dungy that.
June 5th, 2010 at 10:51 pm
Joe, I agree with the main point that Robde is a hall of famer. But I disagree strongly about two things:
1. Ronde didn’t have a single interception, NOT ONE, in Jim Bates’ defense. Now, INT’s are not a measure of a CB’s contribution in and of themselves, but you gotta have more than 0 to qualify as a stud. You’re way off with that characterization.
2. Your statement that Brooks would have been as good if not better than LT had he played in a blitzing system is flat out ridiculous. The guy did many things superbly: rushing the passer was not one of them. He played at less than 250 lbs for all of his career; he simply wouldn’t have had the bulk or strength to rock O-linemen the way LT did.
June 5th, 2010 at 11:00 pm
I don’t see Ronde as an HOF. He was real good, bu he was never dominant and hes never one of the top 3 CBs in the game at any time in his career.
Brooks and Sapp are slam dunks. Lynch is probably in. Barber I think will have to settle for the Buccaneer Ring of Honor.
The one thing I would never bring up is ‘system’. That argument is ridiculous. EVERY player plays in a system and many are different. Stick Brooks in a different “system” where he blitzed on every pass he probably could have had 100 sacks wih his speed.
June 6th, 2010 at 1:05 am
Isn’t he the only CB with 20+ sacks and 20+ interceptions ? That might be a qualifier… and shows versatility (system or not)
June 6th, 2010 at 8:04 am
I think Barber will eventually get in, if for no other reason than the 20/20. I agree with everyone else that Brooks and Sapp are definately in, I think Lynch will get in but it will take him longer.
June 6th, 2010 at 8:34 am
Barber has done something no other Corner has done in history. He has over 20 sacks and over 20 intercptions.
That alone gets him in the hall of fame….evenetually.