Unprecedented QB Weakness
June 4th, 2022
Together again.
Back when former Bucs head coach Lovie Smith and general manager Jason Licht were selling fans on Josh McCown being their guy at quarterback, Joe immediately called shenanigans and insisted that teams with the worst quarterback in their division (by a mile) never win anything.
That sales job by Lovie, who had a long relationship with McCown, should have gotten Team Glazer collective psychiatric evaluations for competency.
The whole thing was a slap to coherent Bucs fans.
Fast-forward to 2022, and every team in the NFC South not named Tampa Bay has a weaksauce starting quarterback. That’s the deep analysis from former Bucs QB Chris Simms, a noted fan of JoeBucsFan.com.
Simms is the lead film guru and analyst for NBC Sports, and every offseason Simms ranks the starting and backup QBs. He breaks them out in weekly in-depth audio segments on his Unbuttoned podcast.
Simms has NFC South starters ranked as follows:
No. 26 – Jameis Winston (Saints)
No. 28 – Marcus Mariota (Falcons)
No. 32 – Sam Darnold (Panthers)
(Simms is working his way up from No. 40 and Tom Brady has not been ranked yet.)
Joe’s not hear to argue the league rankings, only to note the massive disparity in the division. The Bucs have the ulimate winner (Brady) versus a renowned clown show of QBs. It can’t be overstated.
Something’s very wrong if the Bucs can’t win the division.
June 4th, 2022 at 10:35 am
Bucs win the division but the Saint will be MUCH better than anyone is giving them credit for!!
June 4th, 2022 at 10:40 am
This could be the year that Jalmes puts it all together. He’s got awesome receivers, a good line and he was playing well last year before he got hurt. Just sayin’
June 4th, 2022 at 10:48 am
While it’s nice to have the GOAT as our QB it’s not necessary for a team to have an elite QB to win a Super Bowl.
We won previously with Brad Johnson and one of our former QBs went on to win one elsewhere.
The rules, officiating and style of play have changed a lot since then. –Joe
For many QBs, it takes them many years to reach their full potential and I believe that Jameis falls into that category. He’s shown flashes of greatness in the past and if he could figure out how to eliminate the handful of stupid plays he made each game when here in Tampa he can be very dangerous. The Saints were 5-2 with him last season. Simms ranked him at #26 but I believe we need a larger sample size to give him an accurate ranking. Besides, the Saints have enough talent to be competitive even if they don’t have an elite QB.
June 4th, 2022 at 10:50 am
^^^^^^^^^ I meant to name Trent Dilfer as the former BUCS QB to win a Super Bowl. Nothing against Dilfer, but it illustrates that one does not need an elite QB to win.
June 4th, 2022 at 10:56 am
The Bucs lose the southern division if the nfl in a sign of cruelty decides the Bucs must play the knee capping aints 17 times this year😬
June 4th, 2022 at 11:00 am
Agree with Buccos and Bucsfan.
As much as I dislike what JW did to our franchise, my lack of respect for him, I do not dismiss his considerable arm and his weird slew footed, painfully slow, yet efficient way of squirming out of pockets.
Sometimes in the past it looked as if they greased JW up and the defenders were playing a version of the greased pig contest and they couldn’t seem to wrap him up.
JW’s biggest weakness IMHO is his inconsistency. I think the Saints will do well during the regular season…then it will depend on JW’s mistakes on how far they make it in the Playoffs. If the Bucs are healthy I don’t see Saints getting past them.
June 4th, 2022 at 11:03 am
I have a feeling JaMiss is beter than 26th.
I’d put him at tied for 25th.
June 4th, 2022 at 11:11 am
Jameis is Jameis. Without Payton directing him to keep throwing those short passes and handing the ball off, he will revert to his old form.
June 4th, 2022 at 11:29 am
Dilfer wasn’t the only Buc QB that one SBs with another team……correct me if I’m wrong, but didn’t Doug Williams & Steve Young win.
As far as the Saints go….they seem to find a way to win no matter who the QB is.
And, will Jameis be as controlled as he was with Payton?
June 4th, 2022 at 11:44 am
Yeah Joe is right damn now is the year to sweep the saints–it is a must–no doubt about it–they have a jinx on this team and we need to use whatever we can to stomp trash them into small gravel.
June 4th, 2022 at 11:49 am
Too bad those QBs don’t play defense, because both the Saint’s and Kittie’s D are strong.
June 4th, 2022 at 12:00 pm
Will be interesting to see the rankings at the end the season…..
June 4th, 2022 at 12:01 pm
Saw a report the other day that Winston is walking with a noticable limp. I think his health is key to the saints success. They are much improved from last year. The secondary is scary good, and they still have a ferocious front. The bucs should go 4-0 against the other bums. I expect the saints to go 4-0 also. Split with NO, and the bucs should win the south. If they lose both times, probably not
June 4th, 2022 at 12:04 pm
The Saints do have good receivers and Jameis will make some plays, but under pressure, Jameis turns into Shameis. He’s a turnover machine as Buc fans have all seen too many times. Now that he’s been hurt badly, it will always be in his head, the tackle that took him out. I hate the Saints and their low class trashy fans.
June 4th, 2022 at 12:24 pm
How many times every season that we are often reminded how important the HC and QB roles are to the success of a team…
Many people are judging the Saints by the past 16 years when they had a quality HC and QB… They do not have either one any more…
Dennis Allen had a decent team his 1st HC job and bombed….
Every off season since he was drafted, people have proclaimed this was going to be the season JW finally plays well and he has disappointed all 7years.. This will be no different….
Sean likely knew he wasn’t going to win with Winston and bailed to protect his win/lose record!
NOW I believe the Saints will have much success if they wise up and start Andy Dalton… He is far more accurate and protective with the ball.. (they won’t)…
As for the Panther, they are rolling with a HC half out the door…
The Falcons with Mariota and his old OC might be interesting to watch but so many question marks at so many other positions..
June 4th, 2022 at 12:39 pm
Wait a second. Help me out here, guys. I’m confused. I’ve been reading for many months here that Kyle Trask CANNOT be the future of the Bucs because he was a measly 2nd round pick, that only 1st round picks can be the future! Now, Joe describes the following STARTING FIRST ROUND PICKS in the NFC South as a “clown show of QBs”:
Jameis Winston – Round 1 / Pick 1
Marcus Mariotta – Round 1 / Pick 2
Sam Darnold – Round 1 / Pick 3
LMAO. You people can’t shoot straight.
June 4th, 2022 at 12:44 pm
Our late 90’s and early 2000’s defenses utterly destroyed bad quarterbacks. Our defenses under Bowles have had a tendency to make bad quarterbacks look good, so I’m taking nothing for granted. Also, Jameis always has a couple of games per year where he looks like a legit good starter, so we better hope those games are not against us.
June 4th, 2022 at 12:55 pm
Jameis is going to see this and have a chip on his shoulder the entire season. He will throw pick after pick as he tries to prove people wrong.
June 4th, 2022 at 12:57 pm
BucBoy – the draft is a joke and no one has truely ever figured it out..
JaMarcus Russell, Ryan Leaf, Tim Couch, Matt Leinart, Vince Young were 1st round Busts….
Derek Carr 2nd round, Russell Wilson 3rd round, Tom Brady 6th round pick, while Tony Romo and Kurt Warner went undrafted…
Winston, Mariota and Darnold are by all accounts failed picks not having success with their 1st teams!
June 4th, 2022 at 1:18 pm
Saints find ways to stay relevant but that was with Payton n Bree’s. I would love for them to fall off the map but I don’t think that happens even with them gone. We all know Winston very well but what was happening before he got injured he was actually protecting the ball n doing check downs now we have to give that credit to Peyton but with him gone does Winston go back to his old ways or does he keep developing how Peyton wanted him? I wouldn’t write off the saints. They find ways to beat us in season of course lol
June 4th, 2022 at 1:26 pm
Tye, you must be joking about Andy Dalton. Since 2011, he leads the league in most single game PFF grades below 70. He’s the master of below average play. He’s also horrible when it counts most. At least Winston has some upside. I’m not suggesting Winston is a good QB, but I’d take a one legged, hell a one armed Winston instead of Dalton. The saints will surprise the uneducated fan this season. Present company excluded of course
June 4th, 2022 at 1:37 pm
#lovejohnny
June 4th, 2022 at 1:38 pm
BucBoy, Trask will never be anything more than a backup. If he can’t beat out Blane freaking gabbert, it’s a bad sign. Something, almost immediately startled the bucs once they got him in the building. I strongly suspect his entire delivery is being rebuilt. That’s a big project, and a wasted pick at 64. If Trask is anything more than a backup/spot starter, I’d be extremely surprised.
I will admit that drafting QBs is mostly a crap shoot, but Trask was a reach pick, especially for a Superbowl ready team.
June 4th, 2022 at 2:25 pm
Everybody is a Nostradamus before the NFL games are played. Play the games 1st. The rankings will take care of themselves.
June 4th, 2022 at 2:37 pm
BigMacAttack … ‘The Saints do have good receivers and Jameis will make some plays, but under pressure, Jameis turns into Shameis. He’s a turnover machine as Buc fans have all seen too many times.’
Not a big Jameis supporter by any means, but folks portraying him as a ‘turnover machine’ are really only basing that on 1 year of his 7 year career. Personally I blame BA more for that than Jameis (he was clearly the wrong QB to be executing BA’s ‘Bombs Away’ strategy IMO).
In his 1 season with BA, Jameis threw 30 INTs in 626 attempts (1 INT every 20.9 passing attempts … horrendous). But in his other 6 seasons, he’s thrown 61 INTs in 2,094 attempts (1 INT every 34.3 passing attempts). Not great, but considerably better than his 1 year with BA.
The GOAT has averaged 1 INT every 55.7 passing attempts in his entire career (awesome). But a very good QB named Brett Favre averaged 1 INT every 30.3 passing attempts over his whole career, pretty much the same as Jameis has averaged over his whole career (29.9). Not everyone can be The GOAT.
June 4th, 2022 at 2:44 pm
GOB … ‘Trask will never be anything more than a backup. If he can’t beat out Blane freaking gabbert, it’s a bad sign’.
No way we can know that at this point GOB, because Trask was never in any competition to be TB12’s backup. BA was going for a SB repeat, and Gabbert was HIS choice to back up Brady. Only way that would’ve changed is if Gabbert had gotten hurt.
Personally I think Kyle Trask is gonna surprise a LOT of people when he finally does get a chance to start. Oh there’ll be some rough games in there (always are for rookie QBs), but he’s got the talent, he’s got the coaching & the Bucs have some pretty good talent to surround him with. Folks just need to let it play out.
June 4th, 2022 at 3:43 pm
NO’s success hinges primarily on Kamara. No Kamara = 40+ Pass attempts.
NoAK=((40+PA)JW4int*2P6) see numbers don’t lie. Sort of…
June 4th, 2022 at 3:46 pm
The “ Massive disparity “ and “ Clown show of QB’s” Analysis means nothing to me on Sunday when we have to play the Saints. Do we recall who was starting for the them at QB last season vs our starting QB and the outcome of those games??
June 4th, 2022 at 4:02 pm
We will see if the Aints are as good without Peyton coaching. I am guessing they won’t be. Can’t wait to see!
June 4th, 2022 at 4:09 pm
At Defense Rules – you always have the best comments in my opinion and back up what you say with facts and solid stats. I look forward to reading your analysis and posts.
I think the Joe’s should hire you as a full time contributor on this here page.
Go Bucs!!
June 4th, 2022 at 4:43 pm
Defense, Clyde disagrees with you. He said, “It’s always a competition, I see Kyle as more of a developmental guy.” That’s a round about way of saying he sucks. You don’t use the 64th pick on a developmental QB, especially in the middle of a Superbowl window.
June 4th, 2022 at 4:55 pm
Yawn…
June 4th, 2022 at 5:13 pm
Hopefully no one will need to see Trask in regular season action for years. He can be a mashup of Rudy Carpenter and Ryan Griffin.
June 4th, 2022 at 6:25 pm
@Bucfan
Agree with you completely about D.R.
June 4th, 2022 at 6:37 pm
Don’t tell GOB that a guy can’t flash with limited snaps. They saw something that absolutely frightened them. Otherwise, they’d be touting Trask as the next QB. Instead, you have an organization desperately trying to make excuses for why he can’t climb the ladder. I swear some opinions here come straight off the pirate ship itself. The pick is unjustifiable.
June 4th, 2022 at 7:06 pm
What is this now, year 8 for Jay-Miss? People have been saying the same nonsense since 2015. It’s now 2022! I seem to remember when Jay-Miss had Mike Evans, Chris Godwin, Scotty Miller, Cam Brate and an offensive line that protected Tom Brady sans Wirfs.
He is who he is and he will never change.
June 4th, 2022 at 9:32 pm
I’m with a few here in the crowd that believe that the saints are certainly NOT the same competitive team without the Best weapon the saints had had forever it seems and that’s Mr Sean Payton. I absolutely hate the man as a coach because he’s so darn good at it. He was their best weapon “hands down”. I may not like him, but I Sure Do respect him.
Well I’ve got news for ya, he’s gone with the wind. With that said, I have another confession. I liked Jamies and supported him “almost” to the end. Until he, himself, Convinced me that he wasn’t only delusional “check the sheet yo”, but he, himself, would never be able to put a team on his back and bring it home for the “Big Win”. He’s always been his own worse enemy and for most people in life that never changes. God love him, he is who he is and will play like he always has.
I’m not sure how this article turned into a back and forth concerning the saints but one thing is CLEAR! They are not the same team from the very heart and core of their essence. Their greatest weapon, leader, heart and soul has packed up and left town.
STOP LIVING IN FEAR OF A GHOST! In Reality, this year at the very least, WE ARE GODZILLA! WE ARE THE BIG BAD RED AND PEWTER WOLF! They live in fear of us this year and THAT’S reality! We, the 2 TIME Super Bowl Champs and real near 3rd, are in control with King Kong aka THOMAS BRADY throwing the ball for us!
So Stop acting like we should be sweating it because we have the interception champ still KILLING our hopes and dreams! You know, the saints current QB.
I’m ashamed of some of you acting like scared little children afraid of ghosts…
MAN UP!
GO BUCS!
June 4th, 2022 at 11:05 pm
OBVIOUS, What makes the saints such a conundrum for Brady, is the fact that they can get home with 4 and cover. That isn’t going away because someone else has the headset. I love the enthusiasm but get real. I heard the same thing once Drew Brees retired. The saints secondary is even better this year, and they still have basically the same group up front. The bucs will be lucky to get a split. Problem with the saints is, they have a hard time beating everyone else. Dennis Allen is a good coach. No, he’s not Sean Peyton, but players win games, not coaches.
June 5th, 2022 at 12:11 am
“Joe’s not hear” – Typo
I suspect at least one of those QBs will be better than expected. Not better than Brady, but better.
June 5th, 2022 at 12:14 am
I seriously doubt the Saints will be good at all this year, but it’s possible.
Really, the most unpredictable one is the Saints because of Winston…he’s actually untested with another team.
June 5th, 2022 at 12:16 am
D-Rome Says:
“He [Winston] is who he is and he will never change.”
I would not write him off just yet. He’s very similar to players who get better with age.
June 5th, 2022 at 12:51 am
5-1 in the division. ATL & Carolina are nothing. The Saints are good team though, it all depends on the new coach and Jameis. The D is still good enough to pull out 1 win against the Bucs.
June 5th, 2022 at 2:23 am
Finally, Jameis will actually be playing for the Bucs twice a year!
June 5th, 2022 at 2:28 am
jameis’ bulb is a bit dimly lit…that’s the issue…
it’s not the arm…
peyton knows what’s up and really reeled him in during his tenure
June 5th, 2022 at 2:30 am
brady looks at the qb’s in the division and giggles with gronkie on the phone
June 5th, 2022 at 9:40 am
GOB Says:
“BucBoy, Trask will never be anything more than a backup.”
YOU HAVE NO EVIDENCE TO BACK THIS UP OTHER THAN YOU BEING A GATOR-HATING, JAMEIS-LOVING, FSU-FAN.
“If he can’t beat out Blane freaking gabbert, it’s a bad sign.”
THAT HASN’T HAPPENED. ONCE AGAIN, YOU HAVE NO EVIDENCE. MORE, IT WOULD MAKE SENSE FOR A VETERAN TO BACK UP BRADY IN A SUPER BOWL CONTENDING SEASON. JUST LIKE LAST YEAR, MORON.
“Something, almost immediately startled the bucs once they got him in the building.”
LMAO. YOU HAVE ZERO EVIDENCE. BEING A GATOR-HATING, JAMEIS-LOVING, FSU-FAN IS NOT EVIDENCE.
“I strongly suspect his entire delivery is being rebuilt.”
LMAO. YOU KNOW NOTHING. ALL YOU HAVE IS HATE.
I would bet you’re Trask-hating Rod Munch using a new account. Bwahahaha.
June 6th, 2022 at 4:15 am
Without Payton as HC of the Saints, I see Jameis reverting back to being that hero type of QB, trying to do too much.
They have a DC as HC now, let’s see how much they can coach Jameis into playing within the bounds of control.