Marvin Lewis Is Smarter Than Chucky
May 27th, 2010"Two good receivers on the field at the same time? Gee, I hope I've got Marvin Lewis' cell phone on my blackberry."
One of the nails in the coffin of Chucky’s tenure as the Bucs coach may have been his infamous arrogant/clueless statement/lie to Bucs fans (via the messenger known as the Bucs pen and mic club) was that he didn’t have Joey Galloway and Antonio Bryant play together because he couldn’t figure out a way to get both speedy receivers on the field at the same time.
Seems as though Bengals and near-Bucs coach Marvin Lewis has no such conundrums.
Lewis and his offensive coordinator, Bob Bratkowski, (who was the offensive coordinator at the University of Miami when the Canes won national titles in 1989 and 1991) are having Bryant, the former Bucs star receiver, play multiple receiver positions in order to maximize his time on the field, writes Geoff Hobson of Bengals.com.
This is a task that Chucky famously failed to grasp or refused to consider but has Bengals quarterback Carson Palmer all giddy.
” … or moving Antonio (Bryant) around all over the place. No. 2, No. 3, No. 1. You don’t want them to know where he’s going to be every time. It’s not so much getting him on a mismatch. We don’t think it matters if it’s going to be a nickel (corner), linebacker, or starting corner. We think it’s going to be a mismatch. But just getting him in a spot where the defense isn’t sure where he’s going to be once we break the huddle.”
Exhibit A is that Bryant is playing the Z (strong side) as well as the F (the slot) when he has usually only played the X (the weak side).
“I like it. I like playing different spots,” said Bryant, who caught a career-high 83 balls in 2008 when Tampa Bay coach Jon Gruden had him at the Z. “It allows you to use all of your talent.”
Using all of your talent! Something Chucky didn’t feel like doing for whatever reason.
As many coaches that fly in from around the country to hang with Chucky in his bunker to go over football Xs and Ox, maybe Chucky should fly in Lewis and Bratkowski so Chucky can comprehend how to get two talented receivers who can stretch the field on the same play.
May 27th, 2010 at 8:11 am
No Marvin Lewis is not even close in smartness to Chucky the head coach. Well both could be the ones signing troubled players, but Chucky has been more successful than Marv. But it could be possible that Lewis’ Offensive Coordinator is smarter than Chucky. After all Chucky sucked balls in that area, he even got his “Offensive Guru” title revoked after his tenure with the Bucs.
May 27th, 2010 at 8:39 am
Impossible…..can’t be done!
May 27th, 2010 at 8:41 am
C-mon joe.
It is now obvious what Chucky meant, Galloway couldn’t get healthy enough to practice and be trustworthy on game day to make it smart to move bryant around at other positions.
Chucky’s passing game is all about timing and players need to practice at near game speed to be ready for games. Galloway couldnt practice and it would have been bad for garcia to have bryant learning the other wr position when galloway wasnt reliable.
May 27th, 2010 at 8:46 am
I liked Gruden to start with… but who didn’t, he won a SB in year one.
After a few years of wallowing in the same pile of stuff it became apparant that his infatuation with ‘a new toy or the QB who is not there’ got old.
He fell in love with Pittman and screwed Thomas Jones. He would fall in love with a WR and screw the rest of them (that and the QBs with blinders on—Garcia comes to mind).
That and the way he treated players on the way out. I payed no attention to it for awhile, but after more and more and more players talked about how he didn’t have the guts to cut them, someone else would and he would never even phone them before they left town, it became apparant that he is clueless on personal relationships with his players.
That stuff had many players losing their respect for him.
The more I watched him, the less impressed I became. The biggest thing he needed was a GM who had total control, because, as evidenced on draft day, he has no idea about drafting NFL talent.
I think he would be good as an OC, but his ego is too big for that.
May 27th, 2010 at 8:58 am
@thomas – learning the other positions with a guy of Bryant’s experience is a no brainer. The WR tree is the same no matter which position. The biggest difference is how you attack the defense, or defensive player position, when running the route. If Galloway couldn’t continue for any particular game, Bryant just goes back the same spot.
Chucky was just too arrogant and back stabbed players, especially in the end. Real friends stab you in the front.
May 27th, 2010 at 8:59 am
Thomas:
Name ONCE when Gruden had 2 WRs do well. It didn’t even happen in Oakland with that offense.
Galloway insists he was healthy to play towards the end, I believe him over Chucky after all the lies that came out of Gruden.
As for “bad for Garcia” LOLOLOL… Sure. Don’t want your WRs knowing how to play all the positions. That is ridiculous. AND with Garcia it did not matter anyway. All he could do was take a 2.5 step drop, look at his primary and if he didn’t like what he saw, he would get happy feet and take off scrambling and everything would get broken down from there. Garcia was horrible. Half the sacks he took were because he had no clue how to stand in a pocket and look through progressions. he would run into a bunch of sacks that were would not have been.
Anyway, it is a new era and things are starting to look positive. We have to patient and give them support.
May 27th, 2010 at 9:00 am
Stop finding reasons to defend this Thomas. Yes Galloway was hurt alot, but just to stop all discussions about getting our best 2 WRs on the field together by saying they play the same position was insane. Chucky was asked about this repeatedly and he never even gave it a real answer, just dismissed it outright. This would all be tolerable if his offense was good, but it wasn’t even ok, it was poor at best. That combined with how he treated players as Dave points out really stuck out to me as the worst qualities about him… ego and dignity (lack there of).
May 27th, 2010 at 9:07 am
I like Gruden and AB had his best year when he was with GRuden. Galloway was hurt and was on the downslide of his carrer.
May 27th, 2010 at 9:13 am
Lets see…how many catches has Galloway had since he left the Bucs?
May 27th, 2010 at 9:16 am
Funny how what turned into the Bucs trying to keep other teams unprepared for if Galloway was going to play, into the reason that Gruden cannot make offensive plays. Galloway had a broke foot and admitted it after the season. The Bucs were trying to keep the injury under wraps because Galloway could run but not make cuts. The only better anti-Gruden statement is that he disrepected Garcia because The GLAZERs did not give him the million dollar bonus.
We are getting exactly what this area deserves in football for running off Gruden. Keep listening to The Big Fraud show, to run off good coaches when they won’t do interveiws for the show.
May 27th, 2010 at 9:33 am
If Lewis had ended up with the Bucs, they wouldn’t have a Superbowl win right now. Gruden did that. So, who’s the smart one?
Unfortunately, this is the time of year when there is no news, so we get stuck with crap like this.
May 27th, 2010 at 9:54 am
Dave, saying garcia was horrible is just a ridiculous statement!!!!Who else out there really believes garcia was horrible???There was alot worse out there than Garcia…
May 27th, 2010 at 9:58 am
@Dave: I agree with everything you say except Garcia being horrible.
Many Bucs fans say he would run out of pocket for no reason, well he ran outside to create separation between our SLOW receivers and DBs. He might have been over cautious, but at least he avoided interceptions. After all Galloway was our only decent WR in 07 and Bryant in 08.
Also because Garcia scrambled we never knew how good the linemen were. We know now, they are mediocre-bad in pass protection as well.
May 27th, 2010 at 10:32 am
Gruden’s biggest mistake was never hiring an OC in Tampa…then again, his ego couldn’t handle that…
How many head coaches in the NFL are also the OC? And how many of those are successful?
May 27th, 2010 at 10:32 am
I think Gruden gets a bad rap for this.
Galloway was done in 2008. I’ve never seen a player lose his game faster than this dude. He was damn good in 2007.
I think Gruden was just trying not to throw him under the bus by saying, “Well, frankly Joey’s not good enough to start anymore”
Imagine the outrage had he said that!
May 27th, 2010 at 11:11 am
Dave, ONCE in 2001 in Oakland had (2) 1,000 plus recievers, Tim Brown and Jerry Rice. In 1998 he had Tim Brown (1,000 plus) and James Jett (just under 900). And with us in 2002 Keyshawn(1,000 plus) and McCardell(600plus) and in 2003 they flipped McCardell(1,000 plus) and Keyshawn(600plus). In 2007 Galloway (1,000 plus) and Ike Hiliard(700 plus). While 600-700 yards aren’t great, they are not bad considering they were second and coupled with a 1,000 plus yarder.
But, I do agree with your comments about Jeff happy-feet Garcia. I can’t tell you how many wr’s had to “fair catch” his passes.
May 27th, 2010 at 11:13 am
I am the biggest Gruden hater around here (except for gruss) and I agree with JimBucs. Galloway was done since December 07. Not really Gruden’s fault for not trying Galloway-Bryant combo.
Gruden’s real fault: Going into 08 season with absolutely nothing at WR and getting a crappy receiver in 2nd round of that year’s draft. It was wild luck that Bryant was in shape and regained his form quickly, or else my friends, Bucs would have been fucked long before December of 08.
May 27th, 2010 at 11:21 am
@OAR: From the names and stats you have mentioned, you will see that none of the receivers started their careers with Gruden. Also you make it sound as if 600 yards is a lot. What are the stats for receivers #3, TEs? Because on most of the good offenses #3 receivers and TEs have 600 yards of receiving. Our rushing offense was never great either, what ever the reason may be.
May 27th, 2010 at 11:28 am
@Jonny, “Going into 08 season with absolutely nothing at WR…”
Oh, come on! They had the Blocking Icon!!!! What more could you ask for?
May 27th, 2010 at 11:39 am
Jonny, Re-read my comment. Here since you seem to have trouble, “While 600-700 yards AREN’T great, they are not bad considering they were second and coupled with a 1,000 plus yarder.” Having re-said that, I was just answering Dave’s “ONCE” challenge that Gruden never had two receivers do well. He was wrong.
BTW don’t see the point of the “From the names and stats you have mentioned, you will see that none of the receivers started their careers with Gruden.” comment? What does that have to do with it? Marvin Lewis and his Off-coordinator didn’t draft Chad Johnson or Antonio Byrant.
BTW I’m really happy that you hate Gruden so much. It’s nice to hear again and again!
May 27th, 2010 at 11:51 am
its obvious you dont like gruden he was right about the white tiger and right about clayhands
May 27th, 2010 at 12:00 pm
We’ll see.
I’m going on record right now saying that 2008 will be
Bryant’s best season ever……..Yes, the one season under Gruden
will be his best when it’s all said and done.
Gruden >> You
May 27th, 2010 at 12:28 pm
Joe, God forbid if a Head Coach refuses to answer in detail every question posed to him regardng his team, its health and why decisons are made. It was apparent to all without an agenda that Gruden avoided pushing Galloway under the bus, it was also apparent he didn’t want the teams opponents to know what their plan was from week to week. Why is that concept so hard for the media to swallow? Revisonists all, by the time you all get finished talking about Gruden, he will get no credit for any success this team ever had during his tenure.
May 27th, 2010 at 2:13 pm
It is amazing how the Galloway issue keeps on coming up. As someone else said, he was shot by the time 2008 came around. His career was basically finished. He did nothing in that season and nothing last season. I don’t see him doing anything in 2010 either. He’s done. It was so annoying hearing this from Stevie for the entire 2008 season. It was a broken record and Gruden was proven right by Galloway’s extreme sucking in 2009. Galloway had Moss and Welker beside him and he still did NOTHING!!!! Let’s end this talk about Galloway not playing in 2008. Dear lord.
Gruden is a very good offensive mind. For whatever reason, he didn’t show it much in Tampa. But his offenses in Oakland were great, especially with Gannon running the show. And he coaxed 2 playoff berths in Philly with Ty Detmer and Rodney Peete as his QBs. Now that is impressive.
I am very glad that the Bucs got Gruden over Marvin Lewis. Lewis should have been fired from Cincy a few years ago. 5 nonwinning seasons out of 6 usually get you fired. He did bounce back last season, but I wouldn’t be surprised if Cincy took a step back this year. Palmer just doesn’t look right.
May 27th, 2010 at 2:20 pm
Lets see, in regard to Galloway and Antonio Bryant, lets ask the following question:
Under which NFL head coach did Joey Galloway and Antonio Bryant have the best year of their NFL carreers?
The answer puts to rest this totally absurd post.
May 27th, 2010 at 6:31 pm
Haha, man half ya’ll just walk into the trap and take the bait so easily. LOL.
May 27th, 2010 at 9:07 pm
Anyhow…yeah……………….bait smaight…
I know Joe posts titles like this to get a reaction.
That’s a given on any Bucs site…..
…..the reason I post is because there are lots of real life
idiots out there who really truly believe that Marvin is smarter
then Gruden…………and my post is for them…
….So quit projecting your own shortcomings.
Never assume someone else sees thing like you do.
May 27th, 2010 at 9:49 pm
Maybe Gruden wasn’t the best coach ever, but the guy is pretty smart. He knows everything about football. I would definitely take him over Marvin Lewis.
Gruden is a very good coach. No doubt about it. I think it was just his method of building the team that led him to his departure. If Bill Belicheck, Bill Parcells, Don Shula, or even Tony Dungy was coaching his aging team, do you think they would’ve done better?? Probably not. The collapse back in 2008 really wasn’t Gruden’s fault. His players just didn’t execute those last 4 weeks. Remember that he was 9-3 at one point. 9-3 equals a good coach. I’m sure he coached that same way every week.
If Gruden would’ve just decided that he was finally going to go young, rebuild the team, and draft a new QB, he would’ve done great. Just look how well he did back in Oakland. He compiled a 40-28 record there with two straight 12-4 seasons. He’s much better than what his record was here in Tampa (57-55). It matters who you have to work with. And guys… Gruden didn’t have the help he needed. Back in 07, Gruden wanted Calvin Johnson and Bruce Allen wanted Gaines Adams. Who’s the smart guy now?? If Johnson was here, Gruden would probably still be employed. Also, the Glazers of course didn’t reach for their wallets while he was here. Therefore, free agency was off limits to him.
If Gruden was the head coach of the Bucs today, with all the young talent we now have, I think he would’ve done great. Especially with having a young QB in Freeman, who he could’ve developed. He had the ability to coach, just didn’t have the best talent to work with. He also brings more discipline and leadership to the table than Raheem does. It appears Raheem tries to be everyone’s “friend” instead of everyone’s head coach. I don’t think that’s good.
What the Glazers should’ve done is kept Gruden as the head coach, still hired Mark Dominik as the GM, and kept Raheem as the DC. Despite all the insane screw ups Dominik had his first year, he does appear to have an eye for talent. And I think Raheem is a good defensive coach. Just not head coach material.
May 28th, 2010 at 12:15 am
Gruden didn’t have back to back 12-4 seasons. He went 12-4 in 2000 and 10-6 in 2001. The Bucs were lucky they got Gruden. That tuck rule call was one of the biggest BS calls in the history of the NFL. The ref applied the rule wrong in that case. Brady reestablished the ball in his hands, so he fumbled. Pure and simple. I hate the Pats.
May 28th, 2010 at 1:18 am
that was a nice way for gruden to say galloway wasn’t good enough to be on the field. joey’s time in new england sort of proved he was finished. galloway was only willing to play one position, and that was the position that the best WR on the team – bryant – was outplaying him at. i’m sure bryant could have played other positions, but galloway couldn’t, and the flanker gets the best looks
May 31st, 2010 at 10:25 am
Before you start running your moth, you might want to wait until you see how these two high ego players get along together through a season. Bryant has a history of sulking like a little girl and becomming a major team distraction when he doesn’t get the ball. It’s funny how all these hacks couldn’t tolerate a coach who put together a Super Bowl winner and three NFL South Divison championships are in love with a coach who goes 3-13 just because he is a nice guy and talks stupid all day long. I wonder how much Lewis will like Bryant when that wet towel slaps him in the face.
May 31st, 2010 at 11:09 am
I think what’s really happening here, is that Tampa is realizing that Gruden was WAY overrated. The news out of Oakland is Similar.
When he inherited this team, it had a superior defense and an average offense. Nice mix of young talent and and vets. Gruden was supposed to give us a great offense to go with Kiffin’s defense- great Idea! I was excited about that prospect.
But not only didn’t that great offense fail to materialize, but the defense regressed.Bad drafting, faliure to coach our young players, and Chuckys obsession with old players made both units worse. During his tenure, we had high draft picks, but drafted so poorly that we have nothing to show for it. He made his picks, we signed them, and they failed. Bad players or bad coaching? We’ll never know.
But one thing is obvious. He left us will a WORSE team than he Inherited. I Know some hater is going to scream “Cheap Glazers!!”, because that’s what idiots do. But Chucky/Allen had free reign here. They signed old Vets as Quick as quick as they hit the reject pile. They Drafted their picks, and signed them quickly. The only slack they get is the picks we gave Oakland for Chucky, and that was a while back.
I think Gruden is a great Offensive Coordinator for a team with talent in place. I feel his Ego is to great to be a head Coach anymore. I also think Al Davis is getting slammed for Grudens mistakes.
The Bucs beat the Raiders in the Superbowl, the next year they both have losing records- the Gruden effect. Neither has had any sustained success since. I think we all over estimated our friend Chucky!!