The Bucs May Have Drafted Six Starters
May 10th, 2010
Is defensive back Myron Lewis a starter come September?
Yesterday, Joe brought you the story of how the Mad Twitterer, of the St. Petersburg Times, suggested the Bucs may have drafted wide receivers Arrelious Benn and Mike Williams, in part, because they fit Greg Olson’s offense.
The bigger part of the overall story was that the Mad Twitterer believes the Bucs drafted four starters in last month’s draft and that’s not counting Benn.
The fourth starter, in the Mad Twitterer’s eyes, is defensive back Myron Lewis.
The fourth starter will be CB Myron Lewis, a third-round pick from Vanderbilt. At 6-2, 205, Lewis has a physical resemblance to Aqib Talib. He’s another long, athletic defender with good hands who changes direction with relative ease.
With Lewis beginning the year at nickel corner, playing maybe two of every three snaps, he might as well be considered a starter. Certainly, he is the heir apparent to 35-year-old Ronde Barber.
If Joe uses the Mad Twitterer’s math as a foundation, it’s not out of the realm of possibllity Bucs general manager Mark Dominik actually selected six starters.
As the Mad Twitterer pointed out, it’s just a matter of time before Benn starts. So that’s starter No. 5. The sixth starter will very likely be punter Brent Bowden. If a team drafts a punter and the same team also cuts its starting punter, it’s a pretty safe bet to assume the guy drafted will be given every opportunity to start.
May 10th, 2010 at 12:21 pm
As good as I hope these guys will be, they are starters mostly because our incumbent starters were cut or wouldn’t have started on any other team anyway. It’ll be interesting to see how all the rookies play this year.
May 10th, 2010 at 12:46 pm
I’m down with it.
BTW – where has the pessimist been? 😉
May 10th, 2010 at 12:53 pm
He committed suicide after the draft .
May 10th, 2010 at 12:55 pm
LOL
Joe was thinking of THE PESSIMIST just the other day, wondering why he’s been in hiding. Joe assumes he was so distraught after last season he had to have his meds adjusted and as a result, THE PESSIMIST has been out of it.
Joe’s willing to bet that if the blocking icon Michael Clayton is still on the roster come September THE PESSIMIST may have a word about the issue.
May 10th, 2010 at 12:58 pm
Regardless that we’re a young team and starved for talent, if we nabbed 6 starters out of this draft – that’s damn impressive.
May 10th, 2010 at 1:05 pm
You have a good point, CharlieB, but the 0-16 Lions were worse than this Bucs squad, and they got about four starters out of last year’s draft – Stafford, Delmas, Pettigrew, and DeAndre Levy. And they had two first-round picks. If we can get five (discounting special teams), that’d be a haul.
May 10th, 2010 at 2:12 pm
I’m not saying its a bad draft or that our rookies aren’t all that great, just to have a bit of perspective. Leading up to the draft, I heard all sorts of analysts talk about grading a draft based on how many potential starters are drafted. I guarantee you that the 6 players Joe is saying will start for the Bucs this year, only 1 or 2 would start for a playoff team this year.
May 10th, 2010 at 2:18 pm
Stop with the Gloating re number of starters in the draft.
1) they have only been through a rookie minicamp, noone knows how they play against real pros;
2) 3 of the 6 you are talking about are starters because they released the guys who would be challenging them (sims, hovan and the punter);
3) The only reason the two receivers are considered starters is because the team failed to sign Antonio Bryant and Clayton is horrible and they refused to upgrade the position with a vet;
4) Your nickel db is not a starter, quit trying to stretch it – if he beats out barber and actually starts than yes you can consider him a starter. Did anyone consider elbert mack a starter last year? of course not.
It is not an accomplishment to DEPLETE YOUR TEAM of veteran talent and then have a draft where rookies are forced to start out of necessity and say – HEY WE HAD A GREAT DRAFT!! That is. foolish and ridiculous.
Real organizations view a successful draft after draftees actually beat out the vets on the field which allows them to not resign or cut/trade the older vets. Here we draft players and automatically let the vets go before we ever see the rookies play to save salary.
May 10th, 2010 at 2:29 pm
@thomas
Extremely well said.
I suppose we could start 22 rookies, but might not be the best idea.
May 10th, 2010 at 3:43 pm
I understand THOMAS’s point completely, but no matter how you look at it:
If you have a draft that produces 5-6 new starters within 1-3 years then it is a great draft.
They are embarking on a couple decent drafts in a row. Last year produced Freeman, Stroughter, Miller and pssible future contributors Xavier Fulton and Kyle Moore. That was not a bad draft but it was not great.
I do know this, although it is early, it looks like they are a hell-uv-a lot better at drafting in the mid to late rounds than Gruden and Company.
May 10th, 2010 at 3:48 pm
@thomas, eric and flushmouth
I truly think you whiners really get off on finding anyway possible to bash the Bucs. I think it really makes your day.
I believe this post is referencing the possibility of this being a successful draft of potentially 6 starters. I don’t believe anyone has stated the FACT that it WILL occur, merely the potential that it may.
The same story repeats all the time. Buc fans visit this site to chat of what positive things may happen with the buccaneers and discuss their hopes. Granted, things occur and decisions are made that makes those fans use this forum as a means to vent their frustrations and discuss those frustrations with each other. Thus it is a great forum to have available. However, there is the few (Eric, Thomas, Flushmouth etc. etc.) that have absolutely nothing of a positive nature or hope of good outcome to say in reference the current team or organization. Every single post, as far back as anyone cares to reference, is the doom and gloom, didn’t do this right, didn’t do that right, this move sucked, that move sucked, should have signed this one, shouldn’t have cut that one, shouldn’t have hired, shouldn’t have fired, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah………..
If your view of other aspects of your lives are as negative as your belief in the team you claim to be fans of then your lives must be truly pathetic.
Every so called expert analyst out there has given the Bucs a good grade for the POTENTIAL of what they accomplished in this draft. You, as self-proclaimed Bucs fans have found every way possible of posting why it means nothing.
May 10th, 2010 at 5:18 pm
@gruss222: “I believe this post is referencing the possibility of this being a successful draft of potentially 6 starters. I don’t believe anyone has stated the FACT that it WILL occur, merely the potential that it may.”
Read the article! The 2nd paragraph states: “It took only three days to know the Bucs have at least four starters from the Class of 2010.” The word “potential” isn’t ANYWHERE in the article.
Unless your team really sucks, you don’t get four draft picks that start immediately. Last year, only one draftee started (Freeman) and that was only after the season was lost. Had the Bucs been competitive, he wouldn’t have seen the field.
So, expecting to get four starters out of this draft is pie-in-the-sky. There’s an ole saying, “you lose a game for every rookie you start”. If they start four rookies, then don’t expect too many wins.
May 10th, 2010 at 5:19 pm
ask Matt Ryan who 2 start geno and talib got his #
May 10th, 2010 at 6:46 pm
LOL@ Thomas.
Rebuilding teams start their rookies if the vets are performing below mediocre. Should they have retained a couple of quality vets? Certainly, but there were no quality vets on Bucs roster since 08. Brooks, June, Ike, Joey, Matt were all over the hill vets, not quality vets, big difference. Ronde Barber was the only one retained because he is versatile and can still cover slower receivers very well.
Bryant got released because he ran his mouth off in the media, especially criticized Olson for not involving him on offense. You get rid of disruptive elements while rebuilding.
Now tell me what is wrong with handing rookies starting jobs. They do not really have quality veterans ahead of them in depth chart.
May 10th, 2010 at 6:49 pm
@gruss222. Remember who you are arguing with. These whiners believe Gruden would have gotten us McNabb, Marshall, Holmes and Haynesworth and made us a “CHAMPIONSHIP” caliber team. (As if they would want to play for Gruden).
May 10th, 2010 at 7:02 pm
“Now tell me what is wrong with handing rookies starting jobs. They do not really have quality veterans ahead of them in depth chart.”
Why? Because they didnt want to pay the “quality vets” while these rookies developed like most other teams.
Hovan, wilkerson, ab, sims, will allen etc would have been nice vets to keep around while we figure out whether these kids can play. The bucs are the only org that cuts vets before it has been determined whether the kids can play.
May 10th, 2010 at 7:09 pm
Id be very worried if we werent three years ahead of schedule.
May 10th, 2010 at 7:17 pm
@Louie
Wow, how did I leave you out of my line-up of nay sayers?
Yes, the article says 4 will start with the POTENTIAL of 6. I do not believe anybody can argue the fact that this was not a good team last year. It wasn’t a good team the year before that either. Thus the need to shed the vets that should not be starting on any team. Build with youth and start a new future. Yes, I too was pissed at the way Brooks was released. Outside of that, there is no other vet that should have been kept.
Back to the subject at hand. As I stated before, it does not matter what this team does at this current time period, you and your negative cohorts will find some kind of problem with it and get on this format and flap your gums. They just had a “potentially” great draft that any FAN should be excited about and all you bums can do is find fault. The fact of the matter is that the little group of you love controversy and you will stop at nothing short of bashing the team you claim to be fans of to have it. As I’ve stated above, your home lives must truly suck!
May 10th, 2010 at 7:21 pm
BTW – if it werent for eric and radio all that this blog would be a radio and dom and glazer lovefest – even when the team goes 3-13.
Talk radio, blogs etc is built upon DEBATE and disagreement etc. You sheep who protest those with differing opinions particularly as it relates to dom and rah are obviously those who are gruden-haters invested in his firing and that it would improve the team. Even rah and dom into the gruden hate and that is why they signed clayton for that money.
The fact of the matter is in 1-2 seasons (probably ugly ones) we will know whether this org is better off with rah and dom or someone actually qualified like a cowher. but of course you would have to pay him.
What is even more interesting is this? Those of us considered negative base it on history/ a season of watching a season of rah and dom football – it was embarrassing to be a buc fan. Those of you who are positive are basing your positivity on nothing but Hope (or fantasy). You are hoping that rah and dom improve, you are hoping the draft picks turn out, you are hoping that the plan isnt REALLY to go cheap.
I prefer history over hope!
May 10th, 2010 at 7:30 pm
Thomas, Radio and Eric (sorry Eric) = birds of a feather. I get the biggest kick out of the fact that Thomas says:
“BTW – if it werent for eric and radio all that this blog would be a radio and dom and glazer lovefest ”
LOL. Everyone else is unreasonable. Yeah . . . that’s the ticket! 🙂
May 10th, 2010 at 7:40 pm
I don’t know if I would say unreasonable, other than just based on what we know from the evidence (a 16 game regular season) the belief that the guys in charge are able to do the right things to produce a winner is imaginary and purely hopeful.
May 10th, 2010 at 8:34 pm
First, I loved Gruden and was ticked when he was fired.
But, based on history, this team ended on an upswing. Radio showed growth (and the promise we were told was there) as the season went on. Did he make mistakes? Well, duh? But to rule him out after one season would be rash.
Jimmy Johnson’s first year in Dallas was 1-15. Luckily for the Cowboys, no one who is calling for Rah’s head was his GM.
May 10th, 2010 at 8:43 pm
Does nobody remember the 2005 4-12 season? or the 2006 5-11 season? These were Gruden’s 4th and 5th years as head coach. Almost as dismal as having a rookie head coach and rookie GM for those 2 years. Many people want to wait and see what the rookie players do before making judgements as to whether or not they should have beaten out the vets or not, but many are not willing to see what a rookie head coach and GM will do in year 2. Sorry, one 16 game season and we’ve had enough. Peyton Manning as a rookie was 3-13. I think they should have given up on him right there and then, as he hasn’t shown any improvement since (sarcasm). Bill Parcells rookie head coaching season he went 3-12-1. What a horrible coach he turned out to be.
May 10th, 2010 at 8:46 pm
So in all fairness to the naysayers and mystics who “know” we would be a better team and never ever lose with another “real” Head Coach & GM. Let us flip the coin, lets for pretend say we did get Coach Cowher or any other “real” coach here in Tampa.
He brings in his “own” GM his “own” Coordinators, and they lose 13 games and win 3, or worse. Would you naysayers still be shouting up every tree calling out who ever it is that is the coach/gm. Maybe even their choice of coordinator stunk up the place on both sides of the ball. What then??? Maybe you naysayers would say the same things about your guy?
I think not, i think it would not mater as you have “your” Coach and GM and they at least deserve a few seasons to get the right players and implement “their “own system, get the right coaches in place ect…
But no we cant let this happen to the current Coach and GM they are incompetent dribble down the legs of every other “real” NFL team in the league…
What ever…
Like my daddy said
The grass always looks greener across the fence, until you have to go mow it. then its just more damn grass!
Do i believe that every thing the current staff has done is absolutely correct, no! Do i see them adjusting to bad situations that they created sooner rather than later, Yes! ( with the exception of clayton )
And before we all go skipping down love sick memory lane, Id bet that any other “real” coach who came in would have cut, purged, expelled, jettisoned the old vet players faster than you could say, C ya!
Just my view from out here in Arizona
May 10th, 2010 at 9:00 pm
@ thomas
Really? Sims? I think Jamarcus Russell could beat out Sims with his hands tied up wiping Twinkie cream from his mouth. I wouldn’t hesitate to put Miller in Sims spot, even if we didn’t draft two of the top DT’s in the country.
And Will Allen??? Really? Nothing against the guy, he was good depth and filled in when T-Jack was suspended, but he didn’t even beat out Sabby last year. We got Sean Jones (oh, a vet) and don’t expect some rookie to beat him out.
As for AB, yeah, we coulda kept him. But he was hurt most of last year, even though he started 11 games and played in 13, he wasn’t 100% most of the year. He was getting paid $9M per year because he had 1200 yards and 7 TDs the year before. I wouldn’t have resigned him at that price or even close. If we could cut Clayton and give his contract to AB, I might have considered it, but Bryant didn’t want to play for a measly $5M. And I don’t think there’s any doubt the two rookies should be able to beat out anyone on the roster from last year. I think only Brown has a chance to keep one of them on the bench (oh yeah, another vet brought in).
I don’t know what Wilkerson has to do with anything either. We didn’t draft a rookie to “replace him”. Tim Crowder played about as well in a part time role as Wilkerson did in a full time role. Jimmy had 46 tackles and 6 sacks as the starter, Crowder (who didn’t even start the season on the roster) came in as a back up and got 43 tackles and 3.5 sacks. I think we’re at least even there.
I hope you’re getting the picture I’m painting here. The “vets” that are gone either aren’t “quality” vets or they were overpaid (by any teams standards) or they got beat out.
May 10th, 2010 at 9:08 pm
@RustyRhino
Nuce view from out there!
All these Cowher fans. Anybody care to share how many years he spent in Pitt before gaining a championship?
May 10th, 2010 at 9:11 pm
Ok you guys have converted me:
The draft was fabulous, at least six starters and four pro-bowlers.
The Dream is a great coach and the perfect candidate to bring us to the promise land.
Within three years the dynasty of 10 win seasons will begin.
The Glazer boys are the best owners in the league and i believe them when they said “money will never be an issue”
Clayton will turn things around
The rookie receivers wont miss a beat from college and light up the league as our numbr one and two wideouts, as will McCoy, Price and all other draftees including the undrafted ones.
Seventh round draft choices will have immediate impact.
Kareem Huggins is the team MVP and is set to burst on the scene in 2010.
Mo Stovall will likely make the pro bowl
Reggie Brown will be a candidate for comeback player of the year, if not win the award.
Stroughter will make the pro bowl also.
Freeman will be like Peyton Manning in his second year.
McCoy will create such distruction one of our DE will get 15 sacks.
Wins and losses are irrelevant for at least two more seasons.
No FA signings was perfectly reasonable, and trading for Brandon Marshall, Holmes, or Boldin would have destroyed the team, as would have re-signing AB.
Ok, can I play with you guys now?
May 10th, 2010 at 9:11 pm
14 years as Steelers HC before winning the championship! How many of you nay sayers would back him for half of that? HAH! None of you! that’s how many!
May 10th, 2010 at 9:33 pm
@gruss 222
You have it backwards, its the Gruden haters who were dissatisfied with playoff appearances and division titles.
As for Cowher, in 15 seasons, the Steelers captured eight division titles, earned ten postseason playoff berths, played in 21 playoff games, advanced to six AFC Championship games and made two Super Bowl appearances. He is one of only six coaches in NFL history to claim at least seven division titles.
But, he is no match for the Dream!!!!!!!
But, you are right, it is very rare to have a coach like Gruden who won it all so quickly, along with five division tiles.
Arent you the guy who thought the quality control coach was important in the bucs Super Bowl win?
May 10th, 2010 at 9:39 pm
BamBam said:
“Does nobody remember the 2005 4-12 season? or the 2006 5-11 season? These were Gruden’s 4th and 5th years as head coach.”
Great point. Most of the current “haters” are actually jilted Gruden lovers or people who think the rebuilding is unnecessary. So why do these people never mention the down seasons under Gruden? You here a lot about Gruden’s winning seasons and Division championships but almost nothing about the down years or the first round exits or the fact thta he was barely over .500 Why is that?
May 10th, 2010 at 9:40 pm
Eric — what are the Steelers known for? Patience and drafting, right? They are certainly not wild spenders like the Redskins or the Cowboys, right?
May 10th, 2010 at 9:49 pm
@jimbuc
Well I think they are great drafters for sure. I am a huge fan of great drafting.
I also admire their coaching staff.
May 10th, 2010 at 9:55 pm
But you don’t think much of Dom’s work so far, right? Premature I guess, especially because it was all so unnecessary.
May 10th, 2010 at 10:01 pm
Eric — if you like Mike Tomlin why do you hate Morris so much? Lot of similarities, right?
May 10th, 2010 at 10:13 pm
@jimbuc
Are you trying to set me up?
Might be a tough task sir.
But, ill play along.
I see very few similarities between Mike Tomlin and Raheem Morris, except skin color, which is irrelevant.
Didn’t you recently agree with me that Rah is not a bona fide head coach?
Rebuilding was necessary, have never disputed that, i disagree with the method.
May 10th, 2010 at 10:14 pm
Eric — something to consider. Mike Tomlin just followed the appropriate path by having one year as a DC. In fact, look at this comparison. When Tomlin became DC for the Vikings I think they were either the 21st or 22nd ranked defense. He improved them to 8th overall, but he also had new players through the draft and free agency. He has gone on to great success (while coaching for one of the best orgnizations in the NFL)
When Morris took over the Bucs defense they were almost the worst defense in the league in terms of scoring, giving up a little more than 29 points per game. Morris tookover and the defense improved to what would have been a top 5 scoring defense. Granted it was not for a full season like Tomlin, but neither did Morris get new players, so you have a wash. Even if we assume that he sucks for every other game to make a complete season what does he finish 15th overall? That’s in line with Tomlin’s improvment in Minn.
The point: Morris should not be blamed for being promoted prematurely. He may never be a Tomlin, but then again he may. Why is it too early to tell how Dom’s draft picks will turn out and yet late enough to reach a full and final conclusion on Morris? I don’t get that (other than jilted lover Gruden syndrome, which I sort of understand).
May 10th, 2010 at 10:17 pm
Mr. Sunshine (aka Eric): I was not trying to set you up. LOL. That’s funny. I am trying help you overcome your grief and angst, my brother. hate to see someone so n-e-g-a-t-i-v-e Mr. Sunshine. 🙂
May 10th, 2010 at 10:24 pm
Thoms — short of new owners, a new Gm, a new coach, new players, Gruden’s resurrection and maybe even a new league to play in, is there anything about the Bucs that would make you happy? For goodness sakes, sost of the football world thinks Dom had a good draft and you cannot rush to the keyboard quick enough to shoot that belief down. Yeesh.
(Stand back . . . . .)
May 10th, 2010 at 10:25 pm
I was so nervous writing to Thomas that I misspelled his name. 🙂
(Stand back . . . )
May 10th, 2010 at 10:33 pm
@Jimbuc
Thats very nice convoluted logic with Tomlin and Morris. Nice work. Kinda like when a guy gets two hits on the last day of the baseball season, extrapolate it back and he hit .500!
I will agree Morris is in some part a victim of circumstances. His predecessor was too in some ways. Hes a great guy, nothing personal against him, just don’t believe he can coach. As always my opinions are subect to being dead wrong.
If the man coordinates our defense to top five scoring for a full season, I will say that was a fabulous piece of coaching. Hell top 10 would be outstanding.
May 10th, 2010 at 10:35 pm
(Thomas) you are one of those hayseeds in Tampa who thinks the Bucs are the only team that cut veterans for cheaper players. I can assure you the practice is done everywhere. The Cowboys cut a veteran tackle. The Saints cut Sharper so they could pay him less. The list goes on and on. You probably cried a river when the Bucs cut Rice, who didn’t stop falling until he hit the UFL. Also, very few teams keep high priced vets like Derrick Brooks to serve as mentors or leaders. In this case, the Bucs should have, but didn’t. Imagine the uproar if Gruden had cut Brooks in the same manner Rah Rah and Dummynick did.
May 10th, 2010 at 10:41 pm
(Thomas) Least you think I am a Gruden hater, I can assure you I think he is a much better coach than Rah Rah will ever be. Unoftunately, Allen and he weren’t very good in the drafting of players. I think Kiffen also played a part in drafting Adams so I won’t let him oiff the hook, either.
May 11th, 2010 at 9:09 pm
I guess Dumynik did draft 6 starters! When you let all the players go someone has to start! Hell, we may have the 1st all rookie team in the NFL.