Licht Bristles At RB Question
April 25th, 2020
Grades.
Last night after picking Vanderbilt running back Ke’Shawn Vaughn in the third round, Bucs AC/DC-loving general manager Jason Licht had a Zoom conference chat with the local pen and mic club.
There, in the very first question, Licht was asked why in the second round, with so many talented running backs like Ohio State’s J.K. Dobbins, Florida State’s Cam Akers and Utah’s Zack Moss still on the board, he passed on filling a big hole on the roster with guys who demonstrated an ability to produce, and instead drafted Minnesota safety Antoine Winfield.
Let’s just say that question didn’t go over so well.
Licht ever so briefly paused, audibly scoffed as if thinking, “I don’t believe you asked me that” and then responded.
“Well, I guess I would say that we obviously had Antoine Winfield graded pretty high,” Licht said. “It’s also a position that we wanted to address in the draft. …”
Joe knew some about Winfield but last night after watching more video, Joe realized this guy is a baller. The more video Joe watched, the more Joe was sold that this guy is going to be a fixture in the Bucs secondary for some time so long as he stays healthy.
Of course, with Bucs fans openly pining for a running back (for years) and the Bucs looking like they were going to get a home run hitter of a back, Winfield will always be looked at with a skeptical eye unless he balls out — or if third-round pick Vaughn blows up.
Wins, as always, are the best perfume.
On Vaughn, Licht said he was actually graded higher after his junior year than what the Bucs graded him after his senior season.
Vaughn, as a junior, actually averaged a hair under eight yards per carry. That went down his senior year to just over five.
April 25th, 2020 at 6:34 am
Please, please, please draft a few more DBs Jason.
#lichtmyb*lls
April 25th, 2020 at 6:35 am
maybe they should swoop in and grab eason early in the 4th today…give oj howard up for eason
April 25th, 2020 at 6:35 am
Chris Simms, the best football analyst in the game today, said Winfield is the best safety in the draft, is a clone of Earl Thomas, and is a first round talent.
I think we needed one more playmaker in the defensive backfield. If Simms is right, look out.
April 25th, 2020 at 6:42 am
Or, the one thing everybody is failing to realize, we couldn’t really run to the right the last few years, between the comical RGs before Cappa figured it out to Arians flat out announcing they couldn’t run behind Dot. I.e., if RoJo finally hits that last level of maturity playing alongside Brady, we have an A#1 back already on the roster and just needed a pass catcher. They’re probably grabbing another runner today to challenge Dare.
But in an offense with at least 2 of the 3 TEs here & producing, who’s to say those TEs aren’t going to gain the intermediate yards a runner would? Plus one of those TEs is essentially an extra RT on blocking. For all Joe’s kvetching about runners, I’m trying to remember the great runners on the recent Super Bowl teams: Damian Williams? Sony Michel? LeGarrette Blount?
April 25th, 2020 at 6:45 am
Westernbuc, you and Chris nailed it. While Winfield’s Justin Evans-type injury history concerns me, the gist seems to be he’s a special talent starting with his football IQ & pedigree. People asking why we didn’t get a pretty good runner forget that Winfield may be an all-world FS.
April 25th, 2020 at 6:47 am
lets Hope they both impress!!
April 25th, 2020 at 6:47 am
Light has to understand that criticism. Seven db’s drafted in the first three rounds since 2016……ridiculous. He needs to put his big boy pants on and recognize that he deserves the heat. At least no one asked him about drafting a kicker this year.
April 25th, 2020 at 6:53 am
the round 2 & 3 picks are just very unsexy (as they would say)…so fans are disgruntled
the 2nd rounder seems to be a good pick…an arians/bowles type…
the 3rd round back is just crazy — lol…so crazy…he’s like a poor mans doug martin — sorta…
a lot of people are gonna be upset because the 4th as of now is a complete wash…and nobody gets ecstatic over 5th thru 7th rounders…
so you’ll have a boatload of people saying we blew it after the first round
April 25th, 2020 at 6:53 am
You cant look at last night without considering that we used a 4th for Wirfs & we used the other 4th for Gronk……
We needed those picks to move up and didn’t have them…….Winfield was the #1 player available on ESPN’s board when we picked him.
As for Vaughn…he played in a great conference behind the worst run-blocking Oline in the FBS………let’s see what he can do.
I think Winfield was a Bowles pick & Vaughn was a BA pick…
Licht has had a minimized role with the last two drafts.
April 25th, 2020 at 6:56 am
So licht bulb just admitted that he selected the TB that is declining???????? WTF!!!!!!!!
go bucs!!!!!!!!!!!
April 25th, 2020 at 6:57 am
Licht needs to trade Howard or Brate. We have got 6 tight ends in the roster. Remember this is an offense that doesn’t use tight ends very much. Howard and Brates contracts required you to trade them to get cap relief. Just releasing them you have to eat their salary. As usual Licht is flying by the seat of his pants. Tom Brady came to him, Gronk came to him via Brady. You could field a whole team of secondary players Licht has drafted. Passed on Akers, Dobbins, Moss could have used Howard as trade up bait and got Swift or Taylor. Winfield is good but do we actually need to keep drafting secondary personel and missing. Should have traded Howard or Brate and signed a free agent safety.
April 25th, 2020 at 6:58 am
I am good with Winfield, great blood lines! Moss would have been perfect, will have to wait in Vince Vaughn to show his worth. I still say, Runyon in 6th round, blood lines, plus he balled at Shriner’s game) and Bocelli as free agent, (can you say Tony Bocelli?) add QB Morgan in fifth IF there, if gone hope Fromm is there. and one more RB from the AAC, Michael Bush (Cincinnati ) could be what his dad could not due to a horribly broken leg. Sign as many D lineman as you can and hope for a John Randall tyype free agent. Well I can always hope, right?
April 25th, 2020 at 7:04 am
Everybody has an expert opinion about who to pick in the draft, you can’t grade this draft until years from now so time will tell. We were all so excited a few years ago that somehow this talented freak named OJ Howard fell to us and the so called experts (the ones that get paid) called it a home run and we all know how that’s working out so far.
What if they got a got a Ronde Barber and Maurice Jones Drew in the second round ???? Let’s not get worked up before they step foot on the field, there will be plenty of time to hold Licht accountable about this draft , now it’s not the time, go bucs !!
April 25th, 2020 at 7:05 am
2019 stats, both players had awful offensive lines
Akers:
231 Carries
1144 Yards
4.9 YPC
30 Receptions
225 Yards
18 TDs
Vaughn:
198 Carries
1028 Yards
5.2 YPC
28 Receptions
270 Yards
10 TDs
GIVE HIM A CHANCE
April 25th, 2020 at 7:10 am
Winfield has great speed 4.41 added to a secondary with speed……can you believe we just got younger in the secondary?
April 25th, 2020 at 7:13 am
Winfield is a first round talent and he was my second favorite safety after McKinney. I don’t know why they say he isn’t that athletic, he looks fast on tape and he plays with smarts and instincts. He has great hip movement and doesn’t take faulty steps. Great ball skills, great timing on blitzes. What isn’t to like besides he is 5’10. He plays like a rocked up Rondé. Great pick.
Let’s not talk about Vaughn.
April 25th, 2020 at 7:14 am
Good potential in both picks. As always, must wait to see. But I think Licht probably did OK.
April 25th, 2020 at 7:17 am
Ultimately it came down to the Bucs poor GM deals. We gave up a 4th for Gronk. That was absolutely unneccessary because the Pats knew he would never play for them. We got Trubinsky’ed by the 49ers and gave up another 4th. Then we couldn’t trade OJ. So the brain trust thought S was a bigger need than RB and RB was a bigger need than DT.
As a result of no draft capital to trade up or extra picks, we couldn’t get a RB when there was a run on them in the 2nd or a DT when there was a run on them in the 3rd. We absolutely NEEDED that extra pick even if it was to trade a 2021 pick for a day 2 pick today. Think about this, if we had the extra pick, we could have had Dobbins, Chinn later instead of Winfiels at S and Elliott at DT. They were all there.
April 25th, 2020 at 7:23 am
So wait – we drafted for a significant position of need, got the BPA of that spot that some had as late 1st round talent and there’s bitching we didn’t take a running back? Our first two picks were pure gold – and this is from someone who isn’t the biggest Licht fan. When Goodell was announcing our 2nd, I kept repeating to myself please no RB, please no RB.
Buddy Ryan spoke the truth for coaches and GM’s – if you listen to the fans too much, you’ll wind up sitting up there with them.
April 25th, 2020 at 7:37 am
Zack Moss was still on the board for our 3rd pick! And Licht still managed to screw it up!
April 25th, 2020 at 7:38 am
If any of the previous safeties he’s picked could play, no one would need to ask the question. I think this one can play, but can his feet hold up. With one 2nd round safety out with bad feet, it’s either dumb, or ballsy to draft another one in the same round.
April 25th, 2020 at 7:40 am
Tired of these backs that can’t go the distance! Even if he breaks one, he won’t take it to the house. Payton Barber 2. Disappointing!! Last time we had a good run game, besides one season from the hamster was Dunn & Alstot
April 25th, 2020 at 7:42 am
CAuse cause our guy was there
He could have taken this guy in round 5
Whatever. Im cool with the pick
But damn. Play poker homie
Value means taken players that are worth that round
He gets chubbie
April 25th, 2020 at 7:42 am
Other great teams place a premium on backfield; Baltimore, chiefs…. etc!
April 25th, 2020 at 7:45 am
Afo it ain’t about the numbers! It’s about the tape. Vaughn doesn’t flash anything special on tape. He is the definition of a JAG (Just a guy), and does not appear to be a play maker.
He has above average gamespeed, hes decisive and gets north and south, has decent balance through contact and pretty good hands. That’s literally it. There isnt a single characteristic he possesses that suggests he is a special feature back, his film literally screams roleplayer and I honestly believe he would still have been there in the 5th. Plus he is on the smaller side.
Zack Moss on the other hand has tape eerily reminiscent of a one Kareem Hunt, he is a dynamic playmaker with 3 down potential, so of course we couldnt draft him.
April 25th, 2020 at 7:47 am
Are Bucs fans 15years begins the rest of the league, America. Are we not aware, or too STUPID to wrap our hands around the fact that the RB position can be addressed in later rounds? Do you slack jawed, bumpkin simpletons understand that the Dion Lewis, James Whites of the world, guys like Phillip Lindsey had similar (if not worse) draft write ups than the guy we drafted? You DO know value/production can be had in late right rounds right? You do know there are only a few running backs that get the ball 25 times a game now right? Nah…you don’t, because you’re a bunch of idiots. As an aside – I see people whining about the Winfield pick when literally every national draftnik gave us an ‘A’ – but noooo tardo Bucs fans don’t like it. Just the absolute worst
April 25th, 2020 at 7:48 am
If RJIII rushes for 1250 and has 400 receiving yards Licht looks like a genius. If he doesn’t and Vaughn is Sims 2.00 we’ll be drafting RB early next year.
Winfield to me plays more like Bob Sanders (who had injury problems also bc of his intense style of play) and you got to love the passion and intensity he and his family showed after he was picked by the Bucs. It almost seemed as if we were his first choice. He is definitely a Day 1 starter and has All Pro upside because of his incredible instincts. Just watch any game and watch how quickly he recognizes route combinations. If he was 3 inches taller he goes top 15.
It was awesome seeing how pumped he was about getting picked by the Bucs. He’s going to play his heart out and instantly become a fan favorite.
April 25th, 2020 at 7:49 am
Both Rd 1 and Rd 2 picks were excellent. That’s not the disappointment here. Three of the things the loyal Bucs fans have been pining for are: A playoff birth; a change of uniforms; and a productive running back. A running game will make our wonderful passing game even more elite. This is our window for success and yet we try to “finesse” these running back picks. Fans hearts are lifted from our terrible pain with Brady, Gronkowski added to Evans, Godwin, Brate and as it stands at this moment Howard. Our hearts are lifted (ready to get hurt again)? and yet we treat our RB situation as a “red-headed step child”. Love our moves this offseason but hopes are so high…we want this success to finally happen. #Long Suffering Bucs Fans.
April 25th, 2020 at 7:54 am
Agree with what westernbuc said. You can watch Simms talk about ranking Winfield 1st over McKinny and the rest by searching “Chris Simms’ Top 5 Safety Rankings” and watching the last 11 minutes. I think it was an excellent value pick, especially considering that Chris said if he was there when Dallas was picking at 17 they’d be crazy to not jump all over him and that he had the value to go anywhere from the 12th pick on.
What I don’t get is that in the same way that Winfield was #1 on ESPN’s overall value board when we were up in the 2nd round, Zack Moss was #1 on that same board when we came up in the 3rd round and every site across cyberspace that does RB rankings had Moss (a relative of Santana Moss, by the way) ranked in their top 5, bar none. Simms had him 4th on his, which you can also watch if interested. Moss, to a lesser degree than Winfield, would nevertheless been a better value pick and would have netted at least a B grade rather than the D+ I just saw.
April 25th, 2020 at 7:58 am
The only problem I have about the Winfield pick is this, we passed up an Edge rusher with 1st round skills and first round tape that fell into our laps in the 2nd.
Winfield tape is spectacular though so I’m fine with it.
The Vaughn pick however thoroughly pissed me off.
April 25th, 2020 at 8:01 am
Moss played against PAC10 defenses, meaning no defense, ran a 4.65, no thanks, give me the guy on the worst SEC team and still averaged over 5 ypc, and runs 4.51, and produced versus SEC defenses
April 25th, 2020 at 8:02 am
Moss is not nearly as explosive as Vaughn and probably doesn’t have the mental makeup either. This Vaughn pick is the safety blanket for Brady. He goes north and South and picks up first downs and blocks well. I think we pick another RB in the 7th. We definitely need to add anther defensive tackle and offensive lineman.
RJIII busts on the scene this year with a monster year making us all look stupid! We don’t need no stinkin’ running back!
April 25th, 2020 at 8:07 am
Once again the Bucs failed to get a quality RB. Fine–if they wanted to grab Winfield, so be it, but they didn’t need to pick up a mediocre RB in the 3rd that doesn’t really upgrade the position.
April 25th, 2020 at 8:10 am
Both of you need to do yourselves a favor and get your eyes checked. 40 time means absolutely nothing when talking about Running backs. If it did Jeff Demps would still be in the league.
Kareem Hunt, who Moss compares to eerily well, played at Toledo and ran a 4.62 40.
If you can watch Moss’ tape and come away thinking 1. He isnt explosive and 2. He’s not as good as Vaughn… then flat out suck at evaluating running backs. Which means you’re just like Jason Licht.
April 25th, 2020 at 8:11 am
Love the Akers/Vaughn comparison above. Also, keep in mind that Vandy played in the S-E-C. Not alot of Coastal Carolina’s on their schedule. and he still had over 1000 yards with >5 yards per carry average. VERY nice runs against LSU in his highlights.
April 25th, 2020 at 8:13 am
I think that was Rick Stroud that asked that crappy leading question.
What the hell makes you reporters smarter than everyone else?
If your that GD smart then get the Glazers to hire you.
So sick of all the negativism coming from our local journalist.
Everyone of you act like somehow everything you think is right and somehow you may win a f’n Pulitzer or something.
end of rant
April 25th, 2020 at 8:13 am
@Tampabaybucfan Says:
“Winfield has great speed 4.41 added to a secondary with speed……can you believe we just got younger in the secondary…………”
———————————
Love your optimism, the draft is seen in conjunction with free agency. JL is big part of this NEVER SEEN before excitement in this city, and being number one football news in the nation. He got good grades for 1st and 2nd …. and every one is blaming him for the third….sometimes you work with what you have, right.
It is very interesting that all JW lovers here, are eagerly waiting for bucs “bad” steps…. the same as north east papers, that looking to find/blame Tom for trying to meet with his new OC, portraying as a crime, for breaking “stay safe @ home” f@! order….
JH, keep going, you are giving us the best “stay home” time EVER….
April 25th, 2020 at 8:16 am
There is a reason why the two 7 round picks. I think they go QB with one of them. One of the pundits (I think it was helmet hair) brought up a good point last night. It isn’t necessarily the player (Fromm, Eason) the reason they were dropping. It was the fact that most if not all NFL teams are set now at QB. Heck Jaymiss and Cam don’t even have jobs yet. They will be lucky to find back up jobs right now and they have 5+ years in the league.
It’s been a while since I have watched ESPN (AT&T UVERSE doesn’t carry NFL Network anymore). Kiper has aged terribly. What’s up with that hairline?
April 25th, 2020 at 8:16 am
We got o line, safety and rb. Our top 3 needs. RoJo flashed late last year and I think with the slammin o line pick will do better all season long this year. And Vaughn produced- at Vandy no less! We got what we needed. Solid draft so far. We got gronk in the 4th a hof player if a bit undersized. Get that man some calories and time in the weight room and we are good to go. The other 4th was a compensatory pick so should have been used for trading to get what you want in the draft most a top o lineman. Now we see what else we get. Our web was a 6th rounder they say from time to time
Great job go bucs!
April 25th, 2020 at 8:17 am
Joe,
How did you only know “some” about Winfield Jr.?! He’s the best safety in the class and my personal (non-first rounder) favorite player in this draft.
Been on the AWJ bandwagon since before it was cool. That’s no exaggeration.
Really surprising with your expertise and want of a safety for the Bucs, that you only knew “some” about this guy. You must’ve been looking in the wrong direction.
Getting him has made my entire draft!
April 25th, 2020 at 8:24 am
Peyton Barber ran for 1000+ yards in a season in the SEC. Let that sink in.
April 25th, 2020 at 8:25 am
Vaughn is a 5th to 6th rd depth RB. I do not see much of an upgrade over Peyton Barber, another disaster mid rd pick by JL.
Why didn’t JL trade back and try to re-coup another pick. It is not like Vaughn is special.
Next year, please get somebody else to make the selections who will not screw up the mid rd picks.
April 25th, 2020 at 8:40 am
Love the first two picks.
Not impressed with the RB.
But, 2 reasons for hope.
1) the kid ran behind a horrible o-line
2) we should have a great O-line. Great O-lines make average backs look
Great
Lets hope so.
Now, lets hope we can trade Howard for a a 4th and a 5th.
We still need a Slot WR, and depth at DL.
April 25th, 2020 at 8:41 am
Licht seems to overthink some of his picks man I swear.
I love Winfield but taking Vaughn – yuck another Snoopy McPlaybook!
April 25th, 2020 at 8:42 am
Do people not realize Eason sucks Fromm sucks that’s why no one has picked them geesh man I wonder what people look at when they watch games!
April 25th, 2020 at 8:46 am
Hey Scotty in Fat Antonio,
Vanderbilt’s schedule in 2019 included Mercer, MTSU, UNLV, and ALABAMA A&M.
April 25th, 2020 at 8:52 am
I see all the Madden NFL experts are out. So why are you not employed by an NFL team? Because your just like to think you know more than anyone. But a lot of you are going to complain and we know why.
April 25th, 2020 at 9:02 am
Jason is in absolutely no position to scoff! Ever! Answering media questions is part of his job, even for winning GMs; how much more so for a guy with as many blunders as him? The arrogance!?
The new players are Buccaneer men so, I hope they become HOF players. Passing on DE A.J. Espensia (sp) in the 2nd might become a regret. More so than the running backs that were passed over in the third, I wonder why we didn’t go big men, especially on the offensive side. There was still a lot of talent there at extremely difficult positions to fill. They are the ones that will make the run-game run.
April 25th, 2020 at 9:02 am
For the past several years all I’ve heard is “The Buc’s need a running game. Last year we spent a large portion of our draft on DB’s and yes demonstrated one of the worst ground games in the league. So to Jason Licht and Bucco Bruce who I have defended all season, the sooner you are out of Tampa the better. To pass on the opportunity to get a decent run game to compliment our passing game while providing our QB’s with a much needed weapon is unforgivable. Every team in the NFC south has kicked our ass with potent well balanced offenses. I know Brady will help for a short time but to turn your backs on the chance to develop a running game is why we haven’t been over 500 in years. I’m done hearing fans bitch about a half empty stadium. We need a GM and now I’m thinking a coach that understands the game.
April 25th, 2020 at 9:04 am
This was supposed to be one of the 4th round picks…..need over BPA in this picks case
April 25th, 2020 at 9:08 am
So- Today, I’m hoping we get the following-
Nick Coe- DT Auburn
Stanford Samuels- CB- FSU
Shaq Quartermann- ILB Miami
April 25th, 2020 at 9:09 am
Some of you are pretty funny…news flash for those that think every draft choice a GM makes should start or be great… IT. DOESNT. HAPPEN. Picks 1-2 were excellent and the 3rd round Vaughn choice was fine. Typically round 3-5 you see more roster depth guys anyways not sure what the big deal is. Licht and AB both said Jones is our guy maybe some of you should start paying closer attention to BA’s comments he’s been real with us from the start.
As for the rest of you arm chair gMs upset about trading our 4s who cares? We got Gronk and a top tackle that we wanted and desperately needed. Some of you folks crack me up.
April 25th, 2020 at 9:11 am
Earn your salary Jason. Make it work and go get leonard fournette. He was in a bad situation in Jacksonville. If you’re all in like you said you are then go get him. There is no running back on our roster that we can lean on. Don’t be stubborn!!! Get it done. We don’t have a proven horse to carry the load.
April 25th, 2020 at 9:13 am
All of these negative nancy boys, jeesh!
April 25th, 2020 at 9:16 am
Licht you lying bastard. You make me sick.
April 25th, 2020 at 9:16 am
I’d like to see the QB from Iowa, the Running back from Illinois State, and a Defensive lineman among them. First two picks were exceptional… the RB? Time will tell, but he was tainted by Lovie, but on the other hand, was smart enough to get out of Champaign.
April 25th, 2020 at 9:17 am
Vaughn’s predraft profile is very similar to Dion Lewis coming out of Pitt in 2011
April 25th, 2020 at 9:28 am
The Backstabber has no room to bristle at any question. The defensive backfield picks this year and last year have been made to correct the blunders made by Licht between 2015 – 2018.
April 25th, 2020 at 9:28 am
loser Licht’s favorite two words if & potential. Whats next a kicker? Licht you rate right up there with all the other lousy GM’s we had. Hey Glazers ita about time you gave Licht another extension & even a bonus. The only reason TB12 & Gronk signed here was the coaches & surely not Licht.
April 25th, 2020 at 9:30 am
Do y’all not realize that with Brady the run gets better
No more stacking the Box and leaving single coverage on receivers
Who will teams double this year Evans? Godwin? Gronkowski? Can’t double them all or even two so you play a zone dropping in one more DB to cover ( not to mention Brate and RoJo are good ball catchers)
Drop in A DB Opens up some run
Teams could afford to press Winston slow release and known for INT
Brady quick release few INTs
RoJo will have a 1000 season BUCK O’ BEER on that!
April 25th, 2020 at 9:34 am
We needed upgrades at OL, S, and RB. I’d say we nailed two of the three with the only single question being Vaughn. Looking at his numbers, against stiff competition, the only question I have is whether he is an upgrade over Peyton Barber.
Unlike some, I’m ready to give him that chance. We have a better OL with a superior QB and TE. This should equate to better #s in the run-game.
April 25th, 2020 at 9:40 am
I’ve been saying it for years. Licht needs to go. He is the absolute worst at drafting players. He is consistently trying to find some amazing sleepier pick or diamond in the rough in the 2-3 rounds. All while there are good solid picks still available. None of them have worked out.
April 25th, 2020 at 9:41 am
Another thing to consider. The Jaguars contacted us about trading Fournette last night. Lichts response was essentially “no thanks.”
Guess this offense couldnt use a dynamic playmaker at RB on his rookie deal coming off the best year of his career where he generated 1600+ yards from scrimmage as the focal point of a struggling offense.
Defenses knew he was the guy they needed to stop to beat the Jags and still couldnt. Nope definitely dont need that guy. Let’s get this nothing special RB and overdraft him by 2-3 rounds.
April 25th, 2020 at 9:44 am
Awshbucs, Vaughn was demonstrably better then Barber in college. And ran behind a much much worse offensive line. Barber went to Auburn where they still get some decent players. Vaughn had close to 2,000 yards the year before while averaging nearly eight yards per carry. This past year he had over a thousand yards but only had 5 plus yards per carry behind statistically nearly the worst offensive line in college football. And he had a better season than Akers who so many were drooling over. Let’s give the kid a chance.
April 25th, 2020 at 9:46 am
This is a good draft so far. It would have been nice to get some extra picks but thats not always possible when you go for certain players. I am still hoping for a QB, either Jake Luton or Anthony Gordon.. both have solid accuracy, the number one point for grading college QBs. Morgan, Eason..big arm guys are just only that and not QBs. This is football, not shotput. If all else fails, I hope we get Cole Mcdonald. These three all have quick release, can read defenses and throw accurately. Remember, QB no 2 and 3 are just a missed blocking assignment away. Lets not dream about a 43 year old QB is going to last 36 games over 2 years.
April 25th, 2020 at 9:47 am
Agree with Steve 007. Nice statement.
April 25th, 2020 at 9:49 am
Also Vaughn is nothing like Lewis. Lewis has fluid hips and elusiveness where Vaugns hips are stiff as a board and struggles to make people miss in the open field.
There is a play against LSU showcased this. Vaughn gets a wide open hole and being the decisive north south runner he is, he hits daylight with a head of steam, nothing but green grass for an easy 40 yards until he meets Fulton on an island, and what does he do?
He just keeps on running straight at him and gets tackled. Doesnt try to stick his foot in the ground and juke the defender, no stiff arm, no spin move, no attempt is made to elude the defender.
On paper it’s a great play. 44 yard gain. But a playmaker would have turned that into a touchdown or at least close to it. That’s why when theres a player like Zack Moss staring you in the face it’s completely idiotic to take this guy.
It’s just flat out a bad pick. Felt exactly the same way about MJ Stewart when we picked that bum.
April 25th, 2020 at 9:52 am
Meh. I’ll take a north south runner with size and can block
April 25th, 2020 at 9:53 am
I couldnt care less about college stats. That was my entire point. The draft is all about drafting impact players with special tape and special traits. Vaughn, in my eyes, has neither. That’s why I hate the pick.
Licht absolutely nailed the first 2 selections, and with the way the board fell could have nailed all 3. But of course he had to turn in his annual head scratcher…
We picked the kid so I’ll root for him and hope that I’m wrong.
April 25th, 2020 at 9:54 am
With size? 5-10 218 ain’t exactly huge..
April 25th, 2020 at 9:54 am
I don’t quite understand not supporting a player we had no hand in selecting who just became a member of our favorite team. The team will never ever draft everyone we want them to draft. Clearly there’s some major potential here as demonstrated by his college career playing on a subpar team in a premium conference. I just don’t get the disconnect with some of you.
April 25th, 2020 at 9:54 am
He looks much bigger than barber more like m Faulk
April 25th, 2020 at 9:55 am
AwSh, nice to hear you’ll root for him at least.
April 25th, 2020 at 9:56 am
Also, so-called special traits against 1 and 2 Star recruits are different from traits against four and five-star recruits.
April 25th, 2020 at 10:00 am
Maybe asking the question because you have drafted a ton of DBs who are not worthy of their draft position & passed every year on stud RBs. Vaughn was only offense on a bad Vandy team but still the bucs need a legit nfl RB now. It could be worse we could be the eagles & have their horrible GM.
April 25th, 2020 at 10:03 am
What’s wrong with the question?
Jason, why did you pass on a dynamic 2,000yd rusher, who was the best back in the Draft, for a 5’9” Safety and then a runner with a 6th round draft grade?
We just got “Aguayo’ed”!
April 25th, 2020 at 10:04 am
ROJO played well early in year last year against 49ers, Giants and Rams, as well as later in year.
He’s just inconsistent on pass blocking.
Despite somebody’s man crush with Demar Dotson, Bucs have made MAJOR upgrades on right side of line run blocking – look for ROJO to gain 1000+ yards
And Vaughn is a big upgrade over Barber.
April 25th, 2020 at 10:05 am
The one thing that soured me on Zach Moss is that he disappeared against Texas in the bowl game this year. This was maybe thee first real defense he played against, maybe in his career. The PAC 12 isn’t nearly the level of competition you see in the SEC or the Big 10. I want to give Vaughn a chance because of how productive he was on a crap team, playing from behind, against SEC defenses. Ask an LSU or UF fan what Vaughn did against them. Hell, I think every draft eligible player on LSU’s defense was taken in the first 3 rounds.
April 25th, 2020 at 10:08 am
Steven007.
That’s simply not true and there are numerous example year after year that disprove your line of thinking.
Kareem Hunts tape at Toledo is virtually identical to his tape as a feature back in Kanas City.
Cooper Kupp was a dominant force at Eastern Washington and has been a playmaker for the Rams.
Our own Ali Marpet and Alex Cappa wrecked shop in Division 2 and Division 3 schools and have become, a near all-pro level guard in Marpet and viable starter in Cappa.
Jimmy G was just in the SB and makes big time money after being Signlal caller at Tony Romo And JBF Lee’s alma mater, Eastern Illinois university.
Carson Wentz played at North Dakota. Big Ben played at Miami University. Not the University of Miami. Miami University. Look it up
I could go on and on and on… Special tape and special traits are there to be seen regardless of whether or you not you played in the SEC.
April 25th, 2020 at 10:08 am
Afo great point
We can use upgrade at safety-Whitehead is decent but we need a baller.
Winfield is a stud.
Reminds me of Ronde.
April 25th, 2020 at 10:17 am
Yeah Robert…a north south runner than can run over people. Sounds alot like a guy we loved to hate…Mike Alstott. We hate runners like that in Tampa.. And yeah…he isn’t quite a Mike Alstott..three inches shorter and thirty pound lighter, and faster. But please people…give him a chance.
April 25th, 2020 at 10:19 am
Trevor Sikkema twitter, Vandy coach quote….
Mason said: “They’re getting a guy with a Richard Sherman-type edge to him.”
April 25th, 2020 at 10:20 am
Jags offered Fournette for the same pick licht selected Vaughn but licht said no
April 25th, 2020 at 10:21 am
For everybody wondering why there are posters with such negative attitudes about everything, it’s simple…
They are miserable MFs and nothing will ever change that. Trash talking idiots who would never say the things they say here to one of these players faces. And none of them work in the NFL for a reason. They call our current RBs trash, without knowing what this new look team will be come September.
Reminds me of Joe and Devin White last draft.
April 25th, 2020 at 10:22 am
He reminds me of Cody Grimm.
Good player but injury prone.
Son of a former player
Not very fast
Tight hips
A gamer but not elite.
I hope I’m wrong but I don’t think I will be
April 25th, 2020 at 10:24 am
Cody only ran a 4.64.
April 25th, 2020 at 10:25 am
Lol this coaching staff is a joke.
April 25th, 2020 at 10:26 am
@ Joe
It should also be mentioned that Winfield can play slot corner, free safety and strong safety. He can also return punts.
I love versatile players. When it’s week #14 and half your team is injured versatility players become very valuable…
April 25th, 2020 at 10:26 am
knuckle sandwuch it is also due to the fact jason licht is one of the worst GMs in the NFL & the bucs past 5 years of losing records and drafting a 2nd round kicker. So yes many people on this site would have done a much better job than jason gump in the past 5 nfl drafts.
April 25th, 2020 at 10:27 am
*versatile
April 25th, 2020 at 10:28 am
I remember this time last year everyone one here was mad because we traded back with the rams and they took darell Henderson from Memphis. oh my god we blew it. one year later there taking cam akers running backs are hit or miss in the 2nd-4th rounds. we took one root for him stop crying.
April 25th, 2020 at 10:31 am
Haha, the bandwagon’s getting crowded here Joe!
Sorry I missed your 2-hr. poll @ 3:30 a.m., was dreaming about the Bucs moving up in the draft today to take Jake Fromm. I give the Bucs an A so far, Winfield makes a weak position solid and Vaughn should be the best surprise of this year’s Bucs draft.
April 25th, 2020 at 10:31 am
I do find it amusing that in the months leading up to the draft, I probably heard Moss’ name once or twice tops as legitimate option at RB. Today, everyone making it sound like we passed on Barry Sanders. Quite a few big boards had Vaughn ranked higher so let’s give this kid a chance. Regardless, Jones is the starter and should light it up with this revamped line.
April 25th, 2020 at 10:32 am
@ Duthsty
I agree GM Licht got off to a rough start. Drafting a worthless kicker in round two and his 2016 draft were total train wrecks.
However if you are going to mention those failures you also need to mention his recent drafts which have been very solid and the free agent signings of Tom Brady, JPP, Barrett, Suh, Gronk, Nassib, Allen and Jensen.
Not to mention he also was responsible for bringing in Head Coach Bruce Arians.
You need to be fair bro. Don’t be so one sided. GM Licht has had two very impressive years. Let’s hope it continues.
April 25th, 2020 at 10:32 am
@adam from ny,
You are out of your mind. OJ would easily be a 1st Rd TE in this year’s TE. This is a seller’s market for TE, not a buyers market. Gimme a break.
Trading OJ for player has more value than giving him up for a FOURTH RD pick. You gotta be kidding me to even suggest something so dumb.
April 25th, 2020 at 10:33 am
Mark2001 it makes zero sense to mention Alstotts name in the same sentence as Vaughn. They are too completely different style runners that played 2 completely different positions.
Vaughn has decent balance through contact but he is by no means whatsoever a power back. Where as Alstott was one of the more punishing bruisers ever to carry the rock.
You have outed yourself to be a casual fan my friend.
April 25th, 2020 at 10:33 am
*in this year’s draft.
April 25th, 2020 at 10:38 am
So here we are.. many are touting the Bucs as a Superbowl competitive team this year. Things are looking up greatly. But all some can do is disrespect the Coaching staff, GM, and so forth. Too bad they can’t realize that we finally have guys on staff that can evaluate and develop talent, and yet some can’t enjoy the ride. Each to their own, but I’m pretty pleased with the direction we are moving in…finally…. after grasping at years of Raheem, Schiano, Lovie, and Koetter short straws.
April 25th, 2020 at 10:43 am
Since the draft is almost over & Jax picked up another running back, maybe they will come off some of their demands for Fournette. Over 1600 apr last year and 4mil for the year. Catches passes, 1000 yd runner, and is a beast.
April 25th, 2020 at 10:44 am
Aw,…you have outed yourself as a cult of personality sniffer. Guess what…Gruden was so unimpressed that he couldn’t even get his name right. I liked Alstott…but Dunn was the better running back. Mike was one of the last great fullbacks. BTW…You sound like a casual fan.
April 25th, 2020 at 10:45 am
Winfield was the second rated S and a 1st round rated S.
I just can’t stand that he is 5’9”….. but he is a ball hawk, can bring it, and can leap out of the building.
I wanted Akers but oh well.
Vaughn is explosive and doesn’t dance around and can catch. He also played in the SEC and had a crap O line. We shall see.
One big thing he has over Jones, hits the hole and goes! Decisive
April 25th, 2020 at 10:47 am
Mike Alstott is the best running FB of all time and the numbers back that up.
April 25th, 2020 at 10:48 am
Lambchop – they’ll be lucky to get a 4th round pick for OJ And they should take it in a heartbeat.
He hasn’t panned out.
He doesn’t block, his hands are not that great, and he’s not a great route runner.
They have Brate and what appears to be a healthy Gronk for the next two years.
OJ for a player or a 4th rounder would be great! I’d take either at this point.
April 25th, 2020 at 10:51 am
AwSh, I’ll give you there are exceptions clearly. We see it every year and as you know. Even on our squad. But limited to running back, given what was available, I like him over Moss. And really that’s the only comparison we’re talkin about. The other backs were gone. In time will prove one of us to be correct. Because Vaughn is on our team I hope he succeeds.
April 25th, 2020 at 10:51 am
We should all question every move he makes.
If we win… it’s despite JL, not because of him.
April 25th, 2020 at 10:52 am
when interviewing draft-able players…i would first ask a very serious question…
then…hit them with an absurd question like:
“what if i roll into the locker room and just grabbed you by the hair and spit down your throat?…what would you do?”
then you just look at them deadpan and silent and wait for the answer…
then back to the serious questions…
good barometer to see if they just laugh it off, or really try to answer it like a dumb azz mofo…
April 25th, 2020 at 10:56 am
I have no idea how you guys can watch all the highlights of this kid and not see the reason why Licht and Arians took him ahead of Moss. The dude looks like a really solid RB. These guys have scouts, lots of time watching lots of film, and have forgotten more about football than you fools will ever know. They obviously had him graded higher than some of the other backs. Just because you guys didn’t see his name on many mock drafts doesn’t mean this kid can’t play. I know he shredded UF when I watched those games and his highlight include plenty of good runs against an LSU team that is basically filled with NFL caliber players. He was the only threat for a terrible Vandy team without a good line.
April 25th, 2020 at 11:01 am
Brady bunch, I do think a lot of this is about name recognition or lack thereof. I knew Moss’s name much better than Vaughn’s, but then I did a little homework and saw what you saw.
April 25th, 2020 at 11:05 am
you would of thought Licht could of made a deal for Leonard Fournette especially with Howard
anyway it sure is hard watching the best running backs get taken successively off the board–feels as if they are being stolen from us and meanwhile we sit at home and use f’word at the tv set over and over. Licht is responsible for so many disappointing Bucs drafts–2017 was the worst–I knew that was bad to start with hargreaves — kid was drafted way too high–even I knew that then.
April 25th, 2020 at 11:06 am
whatever draft it was w/hargreaves maybe it was 2016
April 25th, 2020 at 11:13 am
Yes, it was 2016. One of the worst drafts in Bucs history.
April 25th, 2020 at 11:28 am
I sense that that folks here are happy with the first two picks not so much with the 3rd.
Our 3rd selection was not a sexy or big name pick at all. We coulda had Dobbins, Cam etc. Here is my takeaway.
First the Bucs have done the same math as the rest of us…with enough touches ROJO is a 1000 yard rusher if you simply plug in last year’s #’s. In addition he caught enough passes to generate more yardages…he’s a virtual slam dunk to be a 1,000 yard total offense guy. ROJO is our “sexy” or “flashy” back. We didn’t need another one in the draft but rather a true “workhorse”.
Vaughn is our mule who does some very…very…very important things well that will not show up in the stat sheet but will be every bit as valuable as being a great runner.
Vaughn told us all why he’s really here! One of his first comments after getting selected.
“I’m very comfortable there (in pass blocking). Now knowing that I have Tom Brady as my quarterback I gotta be even more serious about getting that done, and taking that more seriously as far as knowing who I got on certain plays, making sure my technique is good at all times. Because that man that’s throwing the ball, we need him at all times.”
April 25th, 2020 at 11:38 am
Mule, very good analogy St Pete.
April 25th, 2020 at 11:39 am
Every crapped the bed when we passed on Darrell Henderson. What a stud he has been!! Killing it with the Rams and tearing up the NFL!! Oh……not!! I am a Bama fan and follow the SEC closely, but I had never heard of Vaughn. Go look at his highlights on You Tube. Had some very impressive runs vs. Georgia and LSU. And his speed is something Peyton Barber never had, so I respectfully feel anyone making that argument is mistaken. He and Rojo COULD make a sweet 1-2 punch.
April 25th, 2020 at 11:43 am
Dr F, the potential is certainly there. I really don’t understand these armchair GM’s and let’s be honest all of us are armchair GM’s,, hating it immediately without doing a little bit of homework.
April 25th, 2020 at 11:47 am
Let’s let them play before determining whether “we should have drafted x” or “we took y way too high”. I think safety was a much bigger hole on the team than rb. Rojo is a homerun hitter. He can be a 1500 yards combined back. Vaughn I knew nothing about, but seems like a viable pass blocker and a hard runner. Tom has a history of taking average backs and making them look good, I’m pretty content with the backfield at this point.
April 25th, 2020 at 11:51 am
JL is terrible drafting in 2 and 3rd rds… I don’t have much confidence in his and his scouting team on evaluating talent!
They missed on the entire 2016 draft class! How can you miss on the entire class?!
2016
11 Vernon Hargreaves
39 Noah Spence
59 Roberto Aguayo
108 Ryan Smith
148 Caleb Benenoch
183 Devante Bond
197 Danny Vitale
April 25th, 2020 at 11:52 am
@David,
It’s not about the perception of other teams. It’s about the value OJ can bring to the Bucs THIS year towards a Super Bowl run. A 4th rounder is going to contribute 0 in that effort. Every team will want to give the bare minimum for OJ, I’m not worried about what they think. He would have been a 1st Rd. draftee this year given his college and Koetter tape alone since there were 0 stud TEs in this year’s draft.
We’re not talking about luck, we’re talking about absolutes. If the coaching staff can put up half the effort they made into Winston and give OJ some coaching, he can improve. With Gronk, I can see OJ learning to be a pro.
And his hands were not a problem when Koetter was here. He had a few drops last year. so did Mike Evans. You cannot give up on a 1st Rd pick this soon. I can see him making a huge improvement this year if he stays. He’s on a rookie deal and it makes 0 sense to trade him for a 4th Rd pick.
April 25th, 2020 at 11:57 am
Just read that Vaughn had eight touchdowns of 60-plus yards, which was the most of any player in the FBS. Pretty impressive.
April 25th, 2020 at 11:58 am
I wanted the Bucs to take a Tyrann Mathieu-type guy in the 2nd, they did that, glad to get Winfield…I wanted to get Cam Akers or Antonio Gibson in the 3rd, they went before we picked. After looking into Vaughn, he could be decent. Walter Football graded the pick a “B”, which surprised me.
Remember last year when some of the fans HATED the Sean Murphy-Bunting and Jamel Dean picks? You’d think it was the end of the world. Who hates those picks now?
April 25th, 2020 at 11:59 am
@Stpetebucsfan, as usual your posts are always substantive and reasoned…and I respect that. I hate to be pessimistic (not in my nature), because I really do feel good about the direction of the team, but it’s hard for me not to be a bit deflated by the Bucs 2nd and 3rd round selections.
How long have nearly all of us lamented the lack of a truly explosive runner? I really believed we would take Dobbins when he fell into our laps at 45…. because how often do you get a chance at a guy who just rushed for over 2,000? Oh, and that 2,000 yds was against teams like Wisconsin, Michigan St., Penn St and even Clemson!
I hope this Vaughn kid is a diamond in the rough….but both my head and heart tell me that Dobbins will be an elite back for many years in the NFL….And I doubt that Vaughn will ever be more than Peyton Barber…serviceable at best.
I’ve got nothing against Winfield, other than the fact of what that pick could have been. I’m sure Winfield will contribute on defense…even though I am a little worried about his size.
Wirfs was a slam dunk!
April 25th, 2020 at 12:02 pm
I have zero reasons to not have faith in Bruce Arians. That is my basic premise and I’ll stick to it until proven otherwise.
So far he has proven to me he knows what’s what.
The fact he cut the cord on Winston is a solid case in point. Keeping Winston would be the easy thing to do. He took the risk-it, and ended up with one helluva biscuit.
Maybe he actually thinks Jones is a fine back? Maybe, like stpete points out, it was the blocking “want to” that makes Vaughn attractive.
April 25th, 2020 at 12:05 pm
AwShBucs…just looked up Zach Moss highlights again because I was underwhelmed the first time. Stiff, slow, small. Not saying Vaughn is a world-beater, but we don’t need one. Ronald Jones is our feature back. I wasn’t impressed with RoJo coming out of college (& said so), but he’s added real weight and finally matured a bit. He looks like a world beater sometimes now. I will say that he’s still just immature enough if we had a real threat to his job he may not take it well, but there was no real threat to his job in the 3rd, and other than Taylor and Akers IMO, no real threat in the second either (though I kinda liked Dillon and Swift is ok).
I said this earlier, but we’ve had no run-blocking right side of the line now for three years. That’s now solved with mature Cappa and Wirfs. RoJo should be special and Vaughn can handle third down.
April 25th, 2020 at 12:11 pm
I believe the management is thinking Rojo is our explosive back especially with Wirfs and Gronk blocking for him. Perhaps they are right.
Read St. Pete Bucs post and saw how Vaughn is aware of need to be a superb pass blocker so that is good, whether he is good at it –not sure but at least he gets it on one of his very first comments.
April 25th, 2020 at 12:14 pm
Jeagan…IMO Winfield is super, super special. The injuries worry me too but he’s so good turn the card in. Dobbins I don’t think is that good, sorry, plus the wear and tear from a 2000 year gives me pause. RoJo will get it together this year and Vaughn will handle third down. Barber was dependable but he had Jones’ role, first and second down.
April 25th, 2020 at 12:18 pm
Saw some videos on Nfl where they day had he came out last yr he woild have a had a Rd 2 grade. However this yr the entire Vandy program struggled which impacted his #’s. He & Swift were only backs in SEC to break 1,000 yds in back to back years. So lets hope he is very good!
April 25th, 2020 at 12:19 pm
Winfileld is a Baller when healthy… he is VERY GOOD
April 25th, 2020 at 12:26 pm
MarineBuc…Jason Licht started his GM career drafting a Hall of Famer in Mike Evans.
And for you guys kvetching about Fournette…I wouldn’t mind him either, but he’s been overrated since day one, it makes RoJo kinda superfluous, you have to hand him a big contract if he does well, and more importantly, he’s an a**hole. There’s a reason why they want people like Winfield and White in the building and not Leonard Fournette.
April 25th, 2020 at 12:30 pm
Christopher Schiefen….I’m willing to give the new guys a chance.
But you are wrong on Dobbins. I’ve been watching Ohio St. football since the Woody Hayes era, and Dobbins is a true workhorse back with great moves, balance, vision and deceptive high end speed…not to mention he is an above average receiver. He will be a STUD in the NFL for the Ravens.
April 25th, 2020 at 12:40 pm
@ Christopher Schiefen: you are correct.
And keep in mind one strong player trait requirement for this organization is “character.”
It’s not just the Bucs not jumping on Fournette. No other team is also.
But having said that, we are about to enter the “Second Free Agent Season”, post-draft. That’s when items try to fill holes they still have after the draft.
This is when Jameis Christ and Cam “You Want ME to Fall on that Fumble?” Sulker may find a job.
I’m not sure the Bucs will be done after tonight. The biggest issue is the salary cap.
April 25th, 2020 at 12:43 pm
BTW: the Bucs are a passing team, not a running team. Other teams need to grind with RB’s. The Bucs need an occasional burst to keep D’s honest, solid pass protection and a check-down outlet.
Different concepts.
If the Bucs had a grinder, like a Taylor or Dobbins, either he or those incredible receivers get underutilized.
April 25th, 2020 at 1:06 pm
Jeagan, cool. You have way more experience than I watching him. I kinda pride myself on running back scouting because there’s kind of an art to running like that, and in the very, very limited views I saw he didn’t stand out. But I could be wrong about that and I’ll think he’ll be a fine player.
April 25th, 2020 at 1:30 pm
Christopher Schiefen.
I bet you thought Kareem Hunt was stiff slow and small too.
April 25th, 2020 at 1:32 pm
Also, he may be short, but at 5’9 223, Moss is rocked up. Idk what the hell videos you watched of him but they weren’t the right ones.
And you wanna talk about stiffness? Vaughn is stiff as a board.
April 25th, 2020 at 3:14 pm
Winfield has questionable meaurables, but his college tape and production is fantastic. I have 0 issues with the player. I’m pi$$ed because this pick should have been unnecessary with all of the assets that we have thrown at db over the years. We needed to hit a home run at running back and we ended up with a double. Not good enough Licht and I hope that you have a master plan in what’s left of free agency to get a legitimate threat at running back.
April 25th, 2020 at 4:22 pm
I say instead of us trolling each other…we should go to a saints fan base page and troll the hell out of them act like disgruntled fans about their draft and how they won’t be able to be a loaded tampa team.
Just really make them hate their own fan base like we do to each other.
Bucs fan-i seen you had season tickets ten years and haven’t missed a fame once….oh yeah your a bandwagon fan that knows nothing lmao