Testing The Market
January 21st, 2020
Still in his prime and dominant on a 2008 Ravens team that just lost in the NFC Championship game, legendary linebacker Ray Lewis was allowed to test the 2009 free agency market.
It almost seems unthinkable, but it happened. The Ravens gave Lewis a contract offer, held firm, and told him to see what’s out there because they weren’t budging.
Lewis hit the market but came back to Baltimore a handful of days later with open arms. The ’09 Ravens went on to suffocate and beat the Patriots in the playoffs.
Now America’s Quarterback, Jameis Winston, is no Ray Lewis. But like Ravens fans in 2009, a lot of Bucs fans would squirm in their chairs if the Bucs offered Jameis a one-year contract with incentives (not the franchise tag) and told him to take it and play for Bucco Bruce Arians with great receivers, or go test the market while the Bucs themselves look around.
Quarterback and linebacker are different positions, of course, but suppose the Bucs dig in and demand Jameis play for what they think he’s worth, assuming its a few million less than the franchise tag. Is that a bad idea?
Is it good business? Would it be a good test of where Jameis’ heart is?
It should come down to the Bucs’ internal evaluation of Jameis. Joe believes if you really like the guy, you franchise him, you don’t dig your heels in to save NFL pocket change, not on a Tampa Bay team that has flushed countless millions on garbage players over the past handful of years.
The Bucs shouldn’t be playing those kinds of games. If you think you can win with Jameis, then you lock him up for 2020. If you don’t think he’s the answer, then say goodbye in a hurry.
Whatever the Bucs do, Joe just hopes they don’t set themselves up for a three-ring crap show at quarterback next season with Jameis and a rookie battling for a starting job. Because we all know how smoothly that would go.
January 21st, 2020 at 7:43 pm
Get Jameis a 1k yard rusher and a better oline he isn’t going nowhere
January 21st, 2020 at 7:48 pm
I hope the Bucs do let Winston test the open market. He will be shocked at how low other team’s value him.
Hopefully, there will be one ignorant, desperate QB needy team that will badly overpay for his services and he will go there. Then he will be himself and cost that team’s coach his job.
Best scenario for the Bucs overall would be for another team to outbid them and have Winston move on.
January 21st, 2020 at 7:48 pm
I don’t think Rivers is the answer and unless they could somehow get Stafford, I’d probably franchise tag Jameis and draft a QB. This team has a ton of Players to re- sign along with a new RT, new RB and a kicker.
January 21st, 2020 at 7:49 pm
That is very true
January 21st, 2020 at 7:51 pm
Can we get an AmishRifleWatch article category going??
January 21st, 2020 at 7:52 pm
I have no problem with a low twenty, incentive laden contract for Jameis, and drafting a guy that we can develop if he doesn’t step up. Like I said elsewhere, why wouldn’t he, if he really wants to keep this team together? He plays well, he gets paid big time, and we have room to extend Godwin and resign some guys. He won’t take it? That tells me that his desire is to take the money and run. And if he feels that way, let him do it elsewhere. Are you a team guy or aren’t you, Jameis?
January 21st, 2020 at 8:05 pm
No one is going to offer him a fat contract coming off a 30 int season.
January 21st, 2020 at 8:05 pm
I’ve been saying it for years. Jameis can’t carry a team on his own. Give him even a mediocre defense and he can win. For his first four and a half years he had defenses that ranked among the very worst of the first hundred years this league has existed. For the last eight games the defense played decent ball. They were 5-3 with no ground attack and a QB with a fractured thumb on his throwing hand. I believe they would have been 7-1 had Evans and Godwin played against Houston and Atlanta. I want to see what Jameis can do in a second season in this system with a healthy thumb.
January 21st, 2020 at 8:06 pm
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January 21st, 2020 at 8:06 pm
Like you said Joe. Much different then the LB position. QB is too important(I know like Ray Lewis wasn’t). Figure out who Bruce’s top choice is then go get him. Don’t play yourself into second choice. No games no BS. Just go get the QB you want.
January 21st, 2020 at 8:09 pm
Ya that would be a bad idea. Would be fitting though. Bucs just screwing up another personnel move.
January 21st, 2020 at 8:12 pm
What?
If he stays.
I want competition, …how ’bout Jacob Eason or Tua Tagovailoa
I’ll take either one
January 21st, 2020 at 8:12 pm
I’ve seen enough to be convinced he’ll implode when you need him the most. For this reason I’d turn the page without a contract offer. It’s not about the money, it’s about trusting the player to get you to the playoffs and win. I don’t.
January 21st, 2020 at 8:13 pm
It’s time for a “keep or let him go” Winston poll Joe.
January 21st, 2020 at 8:17 pm
Ira The sage said something very important that the Bucs front office should take heed to And it goes something like this
“If you don’t think Jamies Winston is worth a full time contract then it’s time to move on” and obviously he’s not the answer because the discussion is about him signing a one year deal Christ sake lol it’s time to move on and wish him well!
January 21st, 2020 at 8:22 pm
Mark2001
As usual I agree with your post. I’ve changed my own thinking but only marginally. I’ve always been willing to let BA make that decision…but if they keep blameless I like your plan.
I used to believe if we kept blameless that we couldn’t draft a QB like Eason high. I was going on the disastrous season he turned in after watching Fitzmagic and then BA protecting his ego and nerves by refusing to bring any real competition to camp.
Now I believe it’s time to end the codependency with JW. He SHOULD have competition this year. Scrw the contract value…the best player should play..if that’s not blameless then sit him down and try to cut the losses as best possible.
January 21st, 2020 at 8:29 pm
Yes. Let him test the market. I am confident Winston will be extremely disappointed with the offers he gets if he gets any at all. Then when he comes back down to earth make him play on the franchise tag deal. If he plays well and lowers his turnovers then he should stay.
January 21st, 2020 at 8:36 pm
That’ll be crazy to let him test the market……. he won’t be back. Then what to do? Create a need out of thin air?
But I know the Bucs will screw this up. It’s what they do
January 21st, 2020 at 8:38 pm
If you want to keep JW3…You offer fair market value. #10 QB Money.
Not $30M/yr….more like 4yrs /$107M to max range of 5yrs/$140M – both back loaded & no dead money after yr 2…& then hold tight. (block out that 2020 cap figure & move on with other pending FA priorities – Shaq / JPP / Nassib / Suh.)
Winston’s QBR is trash, but he’s a gunslinger that should get better the longer he’s in this system… However, the 30 ints & 7 pick6’s that cost Bucs at least 2 W’s, work to counter a lot of 2019 positives in keeping his immediate market value subdued.
If his agents balk & drags ass over offer…You don’t budge & let them know that if need be…Bucs will withdraw long-term offer & use Franchise Tag him at last second.
***”Make the 2nd yr leap – clean up your turnovers & then we’ll talk long-term deal, after next season…. Or your agents can go find a better deal & team willing to part w/ 2 1st rd picks to get you.”***
However, if you really don’t want to keep JW3…. Don’t jerk him around, just let him test the market & move on to the next Franchise face. It’s business. Nothing personal.
Regardless of what happens w/ JW3…The FO still needs to look for cost controlled QB option in the draft to add to roster…Either to replace JW3 or to be his QB2. Everyone knows Gabbert ain’t it…& Griffin was so good he could not get on the field, even w/ JW3’s broken hand & 2 best WR’s out of line-up – down the stretch of a lost season… Think about that for a second.
January 21st, 2020 at 8:38 pm
What fans we have. One old guy has made up his own derogatory nickname for the QB and seems to think he’s clever (you’re not). The rest of you want to just ignore the production JW put up in 2019 and focus only on the picks. I am a real fan and I am ready for the playoffs. Hell they could have made it this year if Gay makes a couple kicks and the refs don’t steal the Titans game. Jameis will be back and the Bucs will be in the playoffs. You guys want to try your luck with some scrub rookie or washed up old guy. No thanks, I will enjoy the ride in 2020 while you haters squirm when Jameis shuts you all up.
January 21st, 2020 at 8:39 pm
Bucs problem right now is ALTERNATIVES. What are the real ALTERNATIVES to Jameis? Lots of names being bantered around, but the ONLY real ALTERNATIVE at this point is Ryan Griffin because he’s the only QB on our current roster.
Playing hardball is all well and good, IF you have a firm grasp of what your ALTERNATIVES are. Daniel Jeremiah’s first mock draft has the Bucs taking Justin Herbert with our #14 pick. Let’s say that’s exactly what we did as opposed to re-signing Jameis. Is having rookie Justin Herbert start Game 1 for us a viable ALTERNATIVE, with Ryan Griffin as his backup? In THIS offense?
Sticking the transition tag (around $23 mil) on Jameis is pretty much akin to giving him a 1-year take-it-or-leave it deal. He’s free to negotiate with other teams, and if any of them beat it then they win Jameis. (Gut feel is that first in line will be Chicago). Pretty much the same thing as offering Jameis “a one-year contract with incentives (not the franchise tag)”. Don’t mind playing hardball in negotiations, just know what your ALTERNATIVES are.
January 21st, 2020 at 8:41 pm
JW is not a $30M QB. No other team will pay him that. Give him $15-20M with incentives base on wins and turnovers, not TDs and yards. No guaranteed money past year one. If he won”t take it, let him test the market.
Don’t overpay!!
January 21st, 2020 at 8:43 pm
Arians isn’t gonna tarnish his “qb whisper” reputation and let the qb walk. Doesnt that mean he isn’t a qb whispering coach? Or fraud to get a job? I doubt he is a fraud so he keeping him. Arians is not starting over
January 21st, 2020 at 8:47 pm
JayMiss is not the face of this franchise.
Time to move on.
Peace, out
January 21st, 2020 at 8:48 pm
If they let Jameis go I will be furious and greatly disappointed in the organization and the fans that ran him off. Please don’t ruin this. Go Bucs! Go Jameis!
January 21st, 2020 at 8:49 pm
What should be expected from Jameis next season?
…are there really any expectations? Will Jameis catch on fire or just completely flame out? Should the bar be just a smidgen bit higher? When do we finally decide to quit coddling him or just cut bait?
I contend that anyone with a brain and a big arm can duplicate or smash everything Winston has done in BA’s scheme. Eason ..Eason ..Eason.
One attribute that Jameis does possess and no-one can really argue is his durability even though his dependability was a question mark before this season.
January 21st, 2020 at 8:49 pm
Bucs Guy. Your idea of 15-20M is not realistic. To sign a starting QB on the open market costs more. Your figures will get you a Passrusher or LT. QBs cost more.
For reference Flacco and Foles both signed for 22M per year. They are set the market for cheapest options last year. As the CAP goes up so do salaries.
January 21st, 2020 at 8:50 pm
I’m standing by the fact his situational football results are bottom 3rd in the league. Sure he had some good ones and was let down a few times. But more often than not, his decision and playmaking abilities are not good enough when it counts and therefore doesn’t warrant a long term contract.
Sad… but a short term deal is the best he will get.
All you cats that think BA won’t pull the trigger aren’t paying attention.
3 points,
1) he made quite a few decisive moves on defense, look at the second half results.
2) those of who are thinking BA doesn’t have the appetite to change Qbacks are forgetting that’s his wheelhouse, dude wrote a book on it.
3) his age doesn’t matter, if his coaches are in favor of a major change like a new QB, then he’d do it, because those are the guys who will inherit the roster when he steps back. He wants to win now, but he won’t cut off his nose to spite his face.
In BA I Trust!
January 21st, 2020 at 8:54 pm
They will keep Jameis. In a couple weeks all this talk won’t even matter.
However, people claiming no team will offer him a fat contract are fooling themselves. The problem is the fans only consider the interceptions. 30 picks is a rarity, and I doubt he will ever come close to that again.
But also, they refuse to consider everything else he did this year, and he improved in all other areas. Teams will look at that.
They will also consider previous years with no running game or defense.
You guys have a hate on for Winston and that is blinding you to the truth. Me? I’m going to trust Arians in regard to Winston, because I suspect Winstons picks were the result of high risk play calling. Purposely.
January 21st, 2020 at 8:57 pm
Transition tag and let him hit the market. If he gets an offer that they don’t feel he’s worth either let him hit the road or match it and trade him to the team that made the offer.
January 21st, 2020 at 8:58 pm
Whatever they do it better at least equal 5,000 + yards passing, 33 TDs and most importantly the #3 scoring offense in the league OR win 11-12 games. If they let him leave anything other than one of those would be a unmitigated disaster.
January 21st, 2020 at 9:01 pm
Jean the expectations are playoffs. To lead this team into being a true contender.
I guess that’s always the goal but it’s not always realistic. This year I believe is different and we have a team that has the talent to reach that goal……..I mainly think that because of the defense improving, added to our offense which has always had enough ability. That’s my main reason to want to retain Winston. He finally has a team he can win with. I want to see what he can do.
For your question for when we quit/cut bait with Jameis. I believe if we bring him back Bruce will stay committed to him. When Bruce steps down that’s when we change QBs if we still arent winning.
January 21st, 2020 at 9:05 pm
There’s also the fact that if Jameis is allowed to enter into the market that BA has signaled he has little faith that Jameis is the short term answer. The Coach isn’t thinking in the long term. Especially with the history this franchise has with longevity. Franchise QB’s only play for Franchise Regimes. We have a history of two years and your gone Head Coach
January 21st, 2020 at 9:06 pm
Ahh NDog I say that is unfair. A big factor right now is Winston getting better his second year in this offense.
The same benefit should be afforded for any QB. Just pretend we bring in Rivers for a sec. What a f he struggles at first then starts to catch fire at end of s ason and we go 8-8/ 9-7? You gonna tell me that’s a disaster if he’s then primed to make a deep playoff run the following season……That’s not right.
January 21st, 2020 at 9:06 pm
What I find hilarious is that people believe we can get anything close , production wise, to what Jameis did for less money. You people think Brady, Brees or Noodle arm Bridgewater will come here for $25 million? Of course not we will probably have to pay more and we will be getting a over the hill retirement QB who will get pumbled to death in five weeks in this drop back with no help offensive system or Mr. Noodle arm who has won games with Adrian Peterson and Alvin Karma as his running backs. But oh yeah o forgot anyone can year up the league with our WR, running be damned.
CLUELESS UNITE!!!!!!
January 21st, 2020 at 9:09 pm
Totally agree Jimmy Jack. I thought that was a big reason Arians came here was because of Jameis. I would be completely shocked if Arians already gave up on Winston after one season.
January 21st, 2020 at 9:10 pm
People are speculating Dalton to Rivers to Carr with the Bucs and many would welcome any of them as relief from the mind numbing ulcer that is Winston BUT is any other team speculating Winston coming to their team and is very many of their fans welcoming the idea?…
I wouldn’t be surprised if the answer is NO!
January 21st, 2020 at 9:10 pm
Philip Rivers made 23 mil last season. He shouldn’t expect to make more than that this season.
January 21st, 2020 at 9:12 pm
I agree with 87 and tired
I’ll be highly upset if they let JW just walk
January 21st, 2020 at 9:14 pm
I think Arians wants to keep him for another year and see if he gets better in the mythical second year.
I also think Jameis has enough ego to turn down the franchise tag, or a one year incentive (decentive) laden contract with a dollar sign for each interception.
That is my fondest hope, that he, himself, climbs the fence towards greener pastures. We could get together with a few beers and have a #3 jersey burning.
No matter what drafting a QB is tantamount this year. We know where Burrow is going, Tua goes to Miami at the #5 spot and Herbert to the Chargers.
The Bucs could trade down and Grab Eason later in round1. That will give them two picks in 2. One for a safety(Xavier MacKinney) and a run blocking RT. Then take an RB in 3
January 21st, 2020 at 9:15 pm
Waterboy I’d give him 23.5 mil and buy him a condo in Tampa. HaHa!
January 21st, 2020 at 9:16 pm
I get that Winston did some great things this past season but 30 INT’s and about 6 fumbles is HUGE! Tough to just glance over that when 1 guy had over 3/4’s of all the turnovers on the team that lead the league in give aways and has lead the league in that area since becoming a pro despite being benched several games and suspended for a few more during that same time period.
January 21st, 2020 at 9:20 pm
I would guess that when Rivers signed that contract that paid him 23 he was one of the highest paid QBs at that time.
Not sure what he’ll get if he signs this year but not sure you can base if off his old contract……..Though it might be pretty close to 23.
If I had to guess I’d say he might get 25-26……The exact range NDog just said is clueless haha
January 21st, 2020 at 9:25 pm
And I was a hard core Winston guy for a long time but tired of still waiting on him to turn the corner. At some point you have to just realize outside of his freshman year in college this is who he is. I remember during the QB camp episode with Gruden before the draft Gruden talked to him about locking in on guys and throwing it even though they’re covered and here we are at year 5 in the pros and I’m still seeing it. 5000 yd 33 TD season is great if you’re down around the 15 or less mark in interceptions but I’d take 4000 yds 26 TD’s 8 INT’s any day over the stats he put up this year.
January 21st, 2020 at 9:26 pm
Craig from what I have heard it’s against the CBA to have a INT incentive to take money off of contract. Why would you even want a QB on the field anyways that didn’t want to throw the ball because of his incentives? If I were that QB I would audible to a run most of the time.
January 21st, 2020 at 9:27 pm
In my opinion the worst possible thing this team could do this year is Franchise Jameis. Think about it the two possibility are he totally falls apart and we suck (not likely, but possible) OR he plays great and then we are in a situation where we have to back up the truck to sign him. Neither scenario is good that is why they should have signed him last year, but at this point the best possible solution is a 3 year deal worth a base of $25 with ability to make up to $30 with incentives. If he doesn’t like that I’m not sure what they do cause it has been proven you don’t walk into this offense and play TO free football year one and contrary to what the CLUELESS will tell you we still have no running game or special teams and while the defense looked “better” towards the end of the year I’m not 100% sold yet AND three of the most important players on that side of the ball are also free agents. Bottom line is they royally screwed up last year by not locking Jameis up on the cheap now here we are, free agents all over the place and not enough money to keep them all.
January 21st, 2020 at 9:30 pm
I’ll be throwing a going away party for the ATM, America’s turnover machine. I cannot picture a playoff run without Jameis throwing the Buc’s chances away carelessly. He is a true gunslinger without a conscience. Gaudy stats but lots of interceptions and not worth the headache or heartache. Dude does not learn from his mistakes. BYEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE. Go Bucs!
January 21st, 2020 at 9:32 pm
Seriously if anyone actually watched Rivers play this past season and wants him over Jameis, regardless of how you feel about Jameis, you seriously have no idea what you are watching. He was flipping HORRIBLE to watch as he just made ridiculously bad throw after ridiculously bad throw, not to mention he might be the biggest crybaby in league, of course not as big as our very own Tye, but big nonetheless.
January 21st, 2020 at 9:36 pm
I see the ignorant are worried about “production” while the real fans…the die hards only care about wins and losses. EVERYONE that knows football…not the casuals KNOW that turnovers matter more than yardage, TDs and PRODUCTION.
HOW MANY QBs WON A SUPER BOWL THROWING FOR 5000+ YARDS?
NONE. NADA. ZILCH.
Do not fall for Winston propaganda. Keep that defense together. Dump that loser Winston.
January 21st, 2020 at 9:37 pm
For those guys that say for sure that Jameis is better than Rivers or Tannehill or Bridgewater, you might try to go to some national sites that rank the free agent quarterbacks available.
They don’t all agree with your personal assessments. That is not a fan base analysis — those are expert analysis – although I tend to question that expert analysis myself.
Go ahead and ask Steve Young or Bradshaw on who they would rather have moving forward between Ryan Tannehill or Jameis Winston.
Top 10 on two different sites:
10. Taysom Hill Eli Manning
9. Case Kennum Case Kennum
8. Marcus Mariota Mariotta
7. Phillip Rivers Winston
6. Jameis Winston Rivers
5. Teddy Bridgewater Bridgewater
4. Ryan Tannehill Brady
3. Tom Brady Tannehill
2. Drew Brews Dak
1. Dak Prescott Brees
January 21st, 2020 at 9:38 pm
I want to know one thing definitively. I want to know if Jameis is given autonomy to change plays and audible, or is he asked to just run the play given. I’ll tell you my concern, while trying to decide or justify looking at every conceivable angle on whether to move on from Jameis,
Does he really possess the ability to read defenses? What skill level does he actually possess? To take your troups into battle you must be able to adapt on the fly and move to plan B. Audible
January 21st, 2020 at 9:40 pm
They either think Winston can fix himself, better coaching certainly couldn’t, or you dont want him at any price. QB isn’t a position player, it’s a category on it’s own, where if you pay the guy a boat load of money and you have buyers remorse you can’t just throw somebody else in there and try to help them from other positions on the field. They are on an island.
This narrative of “let’s low ball him and see if he takes it” is dumb. No matter what dollar figure you’re paying him won’t change the player he is with the ball in his hand.
Is it supposed to make everybody feel better about watching him throw endless interceptions if he isn’t making as much money as he could be if he wasn’t a nincompoop that gave the ball away like Halloween candy? No. Once the game starts I dont sit and try to rationalize bad play by the dollars they earn.
He’s either a QB that can win games in the NFL, or he isn’t. Period. Could he win games if the Bucs had a running attack like the Titans or 49ers? Probably not, because to win with that style of offense you need a QB that can complete short accurate passes and not turn the ball over. Neither of which Winston is capable of. Could he win with a suffocating defense? Maybe, but what’s the point of paying a QB $30 million a year if you’re capable of shutting the other team down. Then all you really need is the running game.
January 21st, 2020 at 9:40 pm
Go ahead and ask Steve Young or Bradshaw on who they would rather have moving forward between Ryan Tannehill or Jameis Winston.
Not a doubt in mind both would say Jameis in a split second.
January 21st, 2020 at 9:43 pm
I’m BALLIN’
Check the stats!!!!
I want no competition. I play against myself.
Check the stats!!!
January 21st, 2020 at 9:44 pm
And for the record if they let Jameis walk for some short term fix, it is going to be very very very very difficult to believe in this team and true desire to win long term. Arains might only be here for a few years but I plan on being here a lot longer and of they think short term I think short term both with my expectations and wallet. If they bring in Rivers or Brady it is Super Bowl win or bust, nothing else will do.
January 21st, 2020 at 9:44 pm
This is mild compare to the other fanbases. Seems like the Qb is the primary target for all blame
There are fans who blaming Roger’s for losing.
Fans want Brady gone and get a new team
Fans blame Tannehill for not being Peyton Manning in key situations
I sit and watch this and I’m like ok. We are not thr only ones blaming QBs for organization issues
January 21st, 2020 at 9:44 pm
The minority of Bucs fans want Winston to get one more year and it be a “Prove It” year.
How many of those is Winston going to get?
2 years ago it was to prove to the Bucs to pick up his 5th year option. He stunk, but they did.
This year was to prove that he was capable of a long term deal here. Lots of yards, costly turnovers leading to loses.
Now, possibly next season to AGAIN prove he deserves a long term deal.
Geez, how many “Prove It” years is this guy going to get?
The only thing that Winston has proven so far is that he is NOT a true, championship calibre NFL QB.
Time for the Bucs to move on.
January 21st, 2020 at 9:46 pm
Will some one please explain to me who will replace Winston, that want to come here. you can throw names all day but if they do not want to play here,what do you do next, over pay for washed up QB.
January 21st, 2020 at 9:46 pm
I agree Rivers looked bad last season. I see him as an over the hill version of Jameis but if they can get him at about 23 mil a yr whereas Jameis wants 30 mil I’d be hard pressed to not take Rivers and hope to get 3 yrs out of him while a young inexpensive drafted QB is sitting in the shadows waiting. Now a days it’s about building a team to hit while the iron is hot it’s not like the old days where you had 10 yrs to collect players to make a run. But I will say if they can get Winston at around 25 mil a year or less, I’d probably stick with him and give him a 3 yr contract with only 1 or MAYBE 2 yrs guaranteed.
January 21st, 2020 at 9:48 pm
Well gotbucs that’s funny cause if we had any defense (NOT GREAT JUST ANY) for the first half of this year and a freaking kicker we win 10-11 games this year with changing nothing Jameis did. So I would say your points above are pretty much irrelevant cause he just proved he can win this team if the units around are just component not HORRIFIC like our first half defense and shotty kicker.
January 21st, 2020 at 9:57 pm
If JW not being able to beat out a rookie has you worried that about explains the whole sorry situation !
January 21st, 2020 at 9:59 pm
BrianBucs…….In the end 2018 was not a proove it year for Winston. It was a proove it year for Dirk. You get Djax not wanting to return punts and mouthing off about our QB situation. The dude is sleeping instead of working. He was a hand picked play by the coach.
Dirk’s handpicked play for defense Don’t even wanna play man to man defense and literally was seen on film running away from tackles.
Our last place defense some freaking how found a way to regress. So badly we had to fire our DC midway through.
In actuality there was a whole lot going on with the Bucs last year aside from the QB position……And none of it was good.
I think a main thing Bucs fans have a hard time with is giving Winston a fresh start with Bruce in charge. Too many emotions from past seasons. Remember one thing that Bruce Don’t care about those past seasons…..And Bruce Don’t play around. He’s here to win games. He not gonna tolerate garbage play. If Winston needs to go he’ll get him out. Of Winston stays it’s cause Bruce can win with him.
Bruce knows what he’s doing. If he keeps Winston we should all be behind it.
January 21st, 2020 at 10:06 pm
If, key word IF, the Bucs start another QB in 2020 success will be measured in WINS V LOSSES.
5000 yds , 30TD’s is the bar, if we’re talking fantasy football.
Wins and losses is what Buc fans will measure.
No question about it, if the Bucs start another QB other than Winston, there’s going to a vocal group of fans who will take every opportunity to compare Winston’s best statical performance in terms of yards and TD’S to the next QB.
If the next QB goes say 10-6 with a playoff birth the narrative we will hear multiple times a day will be about the improved Defense, special teams, running backs, playcalling or lack of injuries. I will also include the, if winston was here with this team he would have gone 13-3 and won the division.
I only mention this because there’s fans of the team and there’s winston/Bucs fans. Team fans are more concerned with the team winning not whose name is on the back of the jerseys. The other side is emotionally invested in only a single player leading the team.
Personally, I don’t care about stats for an individual player as long as he’s a buccaneer. That said, I don’t discount them either. What mitigates these two opposing thoughts? Team wins.
If the team is winning, that’s what is important. If not, personal stats become a Callender. A method to sift the best players for the team from the players that are not so good. Winston’s stats leaves enough in the Callender as it allows through it. There’s a case for both sides.
January 21st, 2020 at 10:09 pm
NDog it’s just a revolving argument to try and turn wins into losses. Yes sure we could win more games with better kicking or defense. But then we can just circle back around and say we could win more games with better QB play.
It’s a counterproductive argument. We need better play all around.
The defense I fully expect to pick right up where they left off and be consistent.
We need the same from QB and Kicker.
Rearview mirror is a bad argument here because this is not the same defense. We can now legitimately expect better…….The QB is the same but can we expect better?
Honestly QB and Kicker are bigger question marks at this point.
January 21st, 2020 at 10:10 pm
Ed is right.
There is about 3 guys I think of to replace JW
Burrows…not happening
Mahomes… not happening
And that Ohio state Qb. I dont know his name but he is special Qb. Maybe not happening
January 21st, 2020 at 10:12 pm
Waterboy
Phillip Rivers 2019 – 591 pass attempts 390 completions @ (((66%))) 25 TO’s 4615 passing yards to essentially a bunch of no-name WR’s
Jameis Winston 2019 – 626 pass attempts 380 completions @ (60.7%) 35 TO’s
to arguably the NFL’s best tandem WR’s
January 21st, 2020 at 10:14 pm
D1
well said
January 21st, 2020 at 10:18 pm
So JimmyJack you think the defense is “fixed” cause of their play against Nick Foles, David Blough, Jacob Brissett, Watson with no Fuller and Ryan with no Ridley? So that had you convinced when you saw Bridgewater, Murray, Goff, Wilson, Brees, and Daniel freaking Jones crave them up? So bro they need to at least slow down a good to great QB before I am sold. But to each their own.
January 21st, 2020 at 10:18 pm
Yeah D1 great post. And to that end I’ll say I Don’t even care about INT stats. There are INT and then there are INTs that lose games. The ones that lose game I cannot tolerate.
January 21st, 2020 at 10:19 pm
Ridiculous….he’s no ray Lewis but he’s no middle linebacker either. Bucs probably held firm on kwon alexander worth also and we see how happy he is right now.
Its absurd because only fans of the bucs think he wouldn’t get close to what he wants in open market, he’d be the best qb available after Brady. The scenario that will and should happen is drafting a rookie, give him more credit than comparing him to josh freeman. He would only hurt his brand more if he didnt fall in line and keep his mouth shut. We will draft a quarterback whether he gets a payday or not.
He will get franchise tagged but if there are 3 quarterbacks on next years roster when the season starts it means his days are numbered. If your the guy no need to pay 2 backups again
January 21st, 2020 at 10:21 pm
Jean if you think Keenan Allen, Hunter Henry and Austin Eckler are no names them you need to back away from this discussion slowly before you hurt yourself.
January 21st, 2020 at 10:26 pm
Ndog they’re not in the same discussion as Evans and Godwin either but I’ll leave out an insult
January 21st, 2020 at 10:31 pm
NDog that’s what I just said. I fully expect this defense to keep playing at a high level.
Do I expect them to hold all the team next year to 11 like we did the Jags or nearly shutout opponents like we did to the Lions? Nah thats absurd……….But I know good defense when I see it. You can pretend that shutting down J.Jones and Hopkins aren’t much but that’s just not accurate.
This defense gonna be legit next year. There’s no point in debating there stuggles against Dan Jones or Russ Wilson. The defense has noticably developed since then. Not developed on the stat sheet. I’m talking on film.
A good 4-5 players have made major strides since their early struggles. I’m sorry that you apparently didn’t saw it.
And if I’m wrong and they return to last place again then I’ll accept it and move on. But that seems very doubtful. They for real.
January 21st, 2020 at 10:34 pm
Also Will Fuller wasn’t out. We hurt that pansy little SOB. That’s what good defenses fo baby. We did the same thing to Shaq Barkley too. That was fun for a minute.
January 21st, 2020 at 10:36 pm
But look out for scrambling QBs next year. That is a big weakness on our defense.
January 21st, 2020 at 10:53 pm
Franchise Tag. Let the market set his value.
January 21st, 2020 at 10:54 pm
Sorry … transition tag
January 21st, 2020 at 10:55 pm
It would be fun seeing what Brady could do with our receivers, but I doubt that fancy pants wants to come to Tampa. Dallas is signing Dak, it’s just a matter of time. Jameis is better than every other free agent quarterback in Arian’s offense. If we did the dink and dunk thing, then maybe Bridgewater is better, but he’s a huge injury risk.
Now if we throw caution to the wind and trade for someone like Mathew Stafford who not only is more talented than Jameis, he’s nowhere near as turnover prone, I’m down 24/7. He’s only 31 and if Detroit only wanted our 2020 number one pick, I’d do it. Otherwise, keep Jameis for a year and draft a rookie like Love or Eason. If Jameis can’t handle the pressure of competition, how the hell is he supposed to win playoff games?
January 21st, 2020 at 11:15 pm
Hey JimmyJack I hope you are right trust me I just want to see it first before I believe it and that also assuming Barret, JPP and Suh are back and can put up the same production. I just know one thing when it comes to Jameis he plays extremely hard, is a great teammate, works on his craft extremely hard and there is no doubt has the skill to be an all-time great QB. Now will it ever all come together no one knows for sure, but I do know I would like to see it through till the end cause dangit we deserve to have our own Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, Russel Wilson, Aaron Rodgers etc… Why can’t we have that and while of course not there yet he has the ability so why give up on him when he’s just about to hit that peak age for QBs and we HOPEFULLY finally have a defense to help him out. To me it is just crazy to even consider giving up on that possibility for a two year stop gap who would just come here to retire and never even consider himself a Buc when it is all said and done.
January 21st, 2020 at 11:15 pm
Ray LEWIS played in NFC championship
January 21st, 2020 at 11:15 pm
I Don’t see Stafford being on the trade block. He was my dark horse choices if we did move on from Winston. But I also thought they were firing their coach. Since the Lions kept their coach for one more year I doubt they burden him with a new QB. Anything’s possible but I didn’t see Stafford outside of Detroit this year.
January 21st, 2020 at 11:22 pm
NDog…..Beings that you are a big time Winston supporter I think you need me to be right. If this defense isn’t improved from our typical last place ranking the Bucs are going nowhere. Which means the Bucs are going nowhere……..If we continue to lose we are starting down the barell of a complete rebuild. That almost ensures starting over at QB.
January 21st, 2020 at 11:24 pm
Don’t agree with bringing a rookie in with Blameless. IF you keep him (and I wouldn’t), the cap hit better be managed with incentives based on making and progressing through the playoffs (none of those would count against cap since we didn’t make playoffs this year) and his backup better be a vet who you can turn to when Blameless goes off the rails (on or off the field).
If we love one of the rookies, Blameless needs to divide some other fanbase while we get a vet who has solid habits and is willing to mentor. Any QB who can throw 30 picks and not be 100% apologetic is going to be a trash mentor.
January 21st, 2020 at 11:31 pm
As far as I can tell Jameis Winston threw 21 out of his 30 picks targeting WR’s. If Leftwich wants less TO’s he needs to target the other position players more. Teams know that Tampa is throwing it towards Evans and Godwin. Getting the RB’s involved early in the pass game will keep the LB honest where they are not dropping as deep because they know the Bucs will push it downfield.
The HC’s motto is no risk it no biscuit.
The HC says keep firing after an interception.
Leftwich and Arians can do a better job of adjusting. Doubt they will though. These guys try to fit personnel into their scheme instead of basing their scheme to the personal they have.
David Johnson was targeted 120 times in 2016 under Arians. If they do the same thing they did this year nothing will change.
January 21st, 2020 at 11:48 pm
Only a these dumbasses would talk about ray lewis and Winston in the same article like the are even somewhat comparable
January 22nd, 2020 at 3:28 am
“At times he was terrible”
“We can win with another quarterback”
Latest –
TAMPA BAY BUCCANEERS: Remember what Bruce Arians did with the aging Carson Palmer in Arizona? Palmer played some of the best football of his career and helped the Cardinals go on a deep postseason run in 2015. This is exactly what I envision for Arians and Rivers in Tampa. Arians wants a veteran quarterback who’s competitive and not afraid to take chances. But one who doesn’t throw 30 interceptions (maybe just 20). Tampa Bay’s offense makes a lot of sense for the veteran passer. He had an uber-talented receiving corps with the Chargers, and that’s exactly what he’d get in Tampa with Mike Evans, Chris Godwin and tight end O.J. Howard. Bring in a running back in free agency or the draft, and this unit looks poised to make some magic. Not to mention, Tampa is now close to home.
Make it happen, something happen, not another 34 turnover season and garbage stats.
January 22nd, 2020 at 3:35 am
jaboo seen walking aisle 9 of publics on dale mabry humming the clash song “should i stay or should i go”
Should I stay or should I go now?
If I go, there will be trouble
And if I stay it will be double
So come on and let me know
Should I stay or should I go… 🙂
January 22nd, 2020 at 5:14 am
^^^Love the reference!!!
1st off, we’re assuming he WANTS to stay.
2nd, We KNOW what we have in Jameis.
3rd, this is a Bucs team that can ill-afford to let talent walk out the door without a plan.
What a smart team would do is transition tag him and draft another QB regardless of whether he stays or not. For the life of me, I cannot figure out the love for Ryan Griffin. Bring in a real QB prospect for when your starter goes down. You need someone that you can groom JUST IN CASE. Good teams create pipelines of players. What’s the harm? At worst you end up with a back-up.
In your heart of hearts, can you trust Jameis when the game is on the line?
If not, move on and stop the madness.
If yes, tag him.
January 22nd, 2020 at 5:43 am
I dont know how everyone thinks all other teams would put a low value on Jameis how do you know that they don’t think QBs in BA system always throw alt of Ints prolly comes with a lot of TDs an a lot of Yards if they think they have a better RB an Oline how do y’all know theyre not ready to give Jameis an offer he can’t turn down
January 22nd, 2020 at 6:49 am
If you don’t think jameis can get a ring. Move on. Who cares if he can be very good. He will ALWAYS make the big error to cost a playoff game.
January 22nd, 2020 at 6:51 am
I agree with everything in this article EXCEPT for the very end. I side with The Sage on this one: I think Jameis should absolutely be looking over his shoulder, knowing that his job is not 100% guaranteed. I think the Bucs NEED competition at the QB position. I’d personally feel a lot more comfortable knowing there was a Plan B if Jameis starts Jameis’ing.
January 22nd, 2020 at 6:52 am
JimmyJack … “I fully expect this defense to keep playing at a high level.”
I suspect that the majority of Bucs’ fans have the same expectation (strong 2020 defense) but with what we have under contract RIGHT NOW that’s really just another ASSUMPTION. The heart of our defense … our DLine … is pretty much up for sale to any team in the league. Bringing back JPP, Barrett, Suh & Nassib (all 4 of whom were key contributors) will be costly as we all know. They were cheap last year. This year? Not so much (probably at least $20 mil more just for those 4). The money is there, IF defense becomes the priority for where to put our salary Cap $$$. In recent years, it hasn’t been.
Like you, I trust BA & this coaching staff to do what it takes to construct a defense that’s Top-15 caliber, and very possibly Top-10. If THAT means moving on from Jameis because of overly high salary demands, then that’s what BA will do IMO. IOW, he won’t sell out the defense to keep Jameis, Perriman, add a top-tier RB & RT, etc to his offense. I’m guessing that BA’s looking at a 2-year Super Bowl window to close out his career. 2020 is a critical year in that quest to ‘cement the foundation’ for making that 2021 run. This is gonna be fun.
January 22nd, 2020 at 6:55 am
I’ll take Option B…..”say goodbye in a hurry”…..
January 22nd, 2020 at 7:12 am
I would compare Rivers to an older Tony Romo, will win with the right team but maybe not quite championship level.
How much would Rivers cost? If he costs the same as Jameis, the effect on rest of roster will be the same.
It just makes sense to draft another QB and/or sign a cheaper serviceable QB so you can keep the dependable talent together. This team without the turnovers should be an 11-5 team.
January 22nd, 2020 at 7:38 am
I say we sign Winston to the Transitional tag. That way we could fine what the real market value is for Winston. If another team offers him a contract, the bucs have first right of refusal. This should be much lower than the franchise tag
January 22nd, 2020 at 9:34 am
Everyone is forgetting we had an absolutely BRUTAL schedule this year! That streak of road games and having to play a home game in London really put us at a disadvantage. Let’s play the if game. If we can get Tom Brady we will be instant contenders where a lot of very good free agents will come to play for a discount in hopes of getting a ring. Would you give up on Jameis for a ring and 5 more years of irrelevancy?! I would!!! If we get Brady we draft a tackle in the first round and pick up David Johnson, OJ and Brate will be utilized properly and we will be absolutely unstoppable. Who has better weapons than us?!?
I have hope in Jameis because he really does play his heart out but I think realistically he needs a fresh start. The fan base is exhausted from his heartbreaking style of play and we all need a break.
Now IF we keep him you just know it’s not going to be boring, we are the most entertaining team in the league and the heart break or triumph will bring us all together to at least talk about it.
Finally IF all of our young defensive players reach their potential next year we are a Top 5 defense and no matter who is QB we are a playoff team.
I really do think Brady would be open for coming to Tampa to play a final season or 2 to win a Super Bowl to cement his legacy.
Remember any negative comments or feelings you have towards this team because you’ll be regretting it and eating your words next season.
Lots of ifs but I am very optimistic!! Go Bucs!!!
January 22nd, 2020 at 9:43 am
nano107 Says:
“Ray LEWIS played in NFC championship”
—
Um, no sir, he most certainly did not, lol.
Check your sheet.
January 22nd, 2020 at 12:15 pm
Ray Lewis most definitely never lost an NFL Championship game.
January 22nd, 2020 at 12:56 pm
A+ for the Clash song reference… should I stay or should I go?
January 22nd, 2020 at 1:30 pm
What team really would want Winston? No team likes a Turnover Machine, especially as a long-term investment.
It would be pretty hilarious if they let Winston go to free agency, and then re-sign him at the league minimum.
January 22nd, 2020 at 4:03 pm
NDOG: KC has a great running game?
January 23rd, 2020 at 8:55 am
I hope he leaves TB once and for all. This team and fanbase are toxic. He will do very very well elsewhere provided they have even an average OL.