“Is He Actually Better Than Jameis Winston?”
January 20th, 2020
The most bizarre offseason quarterback market in recent memory has just about everyone trying to figure out what eventual leaguewide changes at the position make sense.
In Tampa, 30 interceptions by America’s Quarterback, Jameis Winston, have thrust the Bucs into that discussion, especially because Jameis is a pending free agent.
Word of Phillip Rivers already relocated to Florida’s Panhandle got NFL Network insider Ian Rapoport talking this morning on WDAE radio.
Rivers returning to the Chargers, Rapoport said, “was described to me as possible but not decided.”
It’s rarely mentioned with Rivers, but the Chargers could just franchise tag him and end the speculation. Tom Brady, however, has a no-franchise-tag clause.
Rapoport remains confident the Bucs want Jameis back for 2020.
But could Rivers be an option the Bucs are considering? Rapoport is very skeptical. “Is [Rivers] actually better than Jameis Winston, pure talent right now? … I would think no for the Bucs right now.”
Joe hears the Rivers skeptics and the Jameis lovers, but the reality is Rivers threw for a big completion percentage (66.0) and big yardage (4,615) this season. Like Jameis, he had two 1,000-yard plus receivers, in addition to a very successful tight end in Hunter Henry (55 catches, 652 yards and 5 touchdowns in 12 games). Rivers also ranked sixth in the NFL in completions of 20-plus yards. Jameis led the league.
Still, Rapoport is correct, Jameis is a better quarterback talent, in addition to being 12 years younger than Rivers.
January 20th, 2020 at 11:05 am
Arm talent? Yes. Between the ears? Remains to be seen!
January 20th, 2020 at 11:05 am
It occured to me during the commercials yesterday…..lots of Mahomes commercials and other NFL guys past and present……Jamyth will NEVER…that is NEVER ( Ndog) be in a national TV commercial…. come to think of it probably not even local TV….another consideration spinning in the combined G’Boyz heads….marketing the franchise going forward
January 20th, 2020 at 11:07 am
Rivers would make a could bridge QB…get it river..bridge…seriously he would as long as we drafted a QB with starting potential this draft
Move On.Bucs
January 20th, 2020 at 11:09 am
Give me Winston or Eason IMO
January 20th, 2020 at 11:14 am
Altered, Jameis is so toxic that he isn’t even in Heisman commercials. Mariota, Baker, Murray all are in them.
January 20th, 2020 at 11:14 am
Too old and lost his ability to throw anything long. Rivers is not an option. Next.
January 20th, 2020 at 11:16 am
Rivers is thinking retirement in the near future. Chargers moved out from San Diego to LA. So there’s no point of being in San Diego. Rumors are that the colts are all in for rivers.
I like rivers next year. But if he’s going to cost 25m-30m just sign Winston better. 12yrs younger.
January 20th, 2020 at 11:18 am
Rivers knows from experience what it takes to win in this league..
JW gives the ball away in 1st drives and at the end of games even in drives that could have been winning drives..
Rivers is MUCH better because he (unlike JW) is a WINNER!
Coach after coach, all the gimmicks and tricks to change JW and his last game after 5 years was no better than his 1st as a rookie… UNCOACHABLE!
It is hard to find good QBs and the Bucs don’t have one so they are taking away all chance to find one ticking with this liability!
January 20th, 2020 at 11:23 am
Hold on … let me run and pull out the stats of rivers for first 5 yrs to compare with Winston
January 20th, 2020 at 11:32 am
Rivers is a winner? What has he won? I’ll wait.
I’d rather have Eli than Rivers. With that said, I’ll roll the dice with one more year of JW and see what happens.
January 20th, 2020 at 11:44 am
There’s one way and one way only that winston changes the narrative about his personality and game which is to cut down on turnovers and be the reason your teams goes deep into the playoffs. He needs to have his team in every game next year and actually beat the great teams. Right or wrong but you have to do double the work to reverse all the mistakes made. If he’s looked at as a playoff caliber quarterback the jokes about him cease, have another season like this year and your forever a backup teams tolerate until they find your replacement.
January 20th, 2020 at 11:51 am
I heard rumors that said Winston will not play with a one year contract. Meaning no franchise or transition tag option available. Now what? Give him 5 years $150 million with three years guaranteed? Or plan B?
January 20th, 2020 at 11:54 am
I think the points above about Winston and marketing are valid. Pro-football is about two things: money and winning. You really cant accel at either with Winston. He’s too divisive and inconsistent. You bring in a big name and draft a QB….the fan base will careless what Winston does. Frankly, what franchise views Winston as an upgrade? He needs too many resources to just hover around 8-8….the formula doesn’t work if you pay him $25 million or more per year. It didn’t work when we paid him $20 million…or less for the last 5 yrs.
January 20th, 2020 at 12:01 pm
@MarineBuc
I could easily be wrong but I’m under the impression that “blameless” has no say in this…other than sit out the season in protest. He has only that as leverage.
Do we think he’ll turn down 25 million and sit the year for his ego. Admittedly he does have a HUGE ego but his agent will want a cut of that 25 million and be giving him advice. Good question tho’.
As far as Rivers…dunno…Manning..absolutely not…Brady…pipe dream and probably only good for ticket sales at this point.
I think this boils down to how much faith BA has in Gabbert. Save the hyperbole about him being “trash”. He started three games his last year in Tennessee and went 2-1 with a better than 60% completion %.
IF BA went with Gabbert…not exciting at all…he is forced to select a QB.
I think a lot depends on what BA thinks about Gabbert and potential draft picks versus his belief that in year two he can accomplish what he failed to do in year one…get “blameless” a change in DNA.
January 20th, 2020 at 12:02 pm
Is Rivers better than Winston, is a question you ask if you are talking about long term. Its clear Rivers is not a long term solution. You are asking the wrong question. The right question would be can Rivers be solid for a year or 2 while mentoring a rookie? I think thats a yes.
January 20th, 2020 at 12:03 pm
The narrative on Jameis changes if he wins. You wanna know why nobody talks about Favre’s interceptions? The dude won games. Stop hovering around 6-10 and start being 10-6 or 11-5, and nobody is going to care about the interceptions. Granted, I think the Bucs will never win games with Winston turning the ball over like he does, but this league isn’t about stats. Just ask Garoppolo. Wins baby! Wins!
January 20th, 2020 at 12:14 pm
@ stpetebucfan
I have two words for you – Drew Rosenhaus.
I agree with all your points but let’s remember who Winston chose as his agent… Dude is slicker than snail snot. It wouldn’t surprise me if Winston does hold out for a long term deal with Rosenhaus in charge of the negotiations. We will see. A big factor is if another team is interested.
January 20th, 2020 at 12:18 pm
@Jaboo
“Rivers is a winner? What has he won? I’ll wait.”
Are you freaking serious? Well wait no more!
He’s been to the playoffs SIX TIMES. He was one and done only twice and reached the Conference championship one year. He had the misfortune of playing during the same time Brady and Belicheats were dominating. He lost to them three of is six appearances, once to Big Ben and the Steelers and once to Manning and the Broncos.
Oh and add 27 comebacks, 32 game-winning drives.
Now what has Jaboo won in the NFL? Has he EVER reached the playoffs?
I won’t wait because it would take you forever to bring up oh he was an alternate for one pro bowl. Rivers went to the pro bowl EIGHT times!
Oh but I understand…Rivers played for awesome Charger teams while poor “blameless” played for the Bucs.
Guys…really…I get your love for “blameless” as Nole fans. I get that you see his unlimited potential. You MAY be correct and that “potential” we’ve waited for five years to cash in on will finally be seen next year.
BUT…you have NO argument about the first five. He simply hasn’t done it yet.
He has no scoreboard and it’s time you guys STOP comparing him to QB’s who actually DO HAVE SCOREBOARD.
January 20th, 2020 at 12:20 pm
Jameis would be crazy to hold out if franchise tagged. Part of his problem is the perception of being difficult in addition to the turnovers. Major issues at FSU and then the suspension while here.
Couple all that with the reputation of BA around the league and he would litterally screwing himself. His best bet is to bet on himself under the tutelage of BA. Sign some sort of 2 year extension at a hometown discount and work on cutting the INTs down. If he simply does cuts them in half he can sign a long term deal at the age of 28 as a top 5 paid QB.
January 20th, 2020 at 12:21 pm
@Marine
GREAT Point. Neither Rosenhaus or JW is desperate for money. They can easily sit it out for awhile.
Then as you suggest it will get really interesting. Would the Bucs cave to the blackmail…or would they simply allow another team to sign him or perhaps work a sign and trade deal similar to the Cousins move from DC to Minn.
January 20th, 2020 at 12:24 pm
Jaboo
My response to Marine was written before you gamed out that scenario.
I agree that would be the BEST scenario for JW and the Bucs. If he really is delusional enough to think he’s worth 30 million a year long term…and after that post game presser…I honestly do not know anymore.
I certainly agree you make the most sense…but the Buc/JW relationship hasn’t always made the most sense.
January 20th, 2020 at 12:25 pm
Troy Says:
January 20th, 2020 at 12:03 pm
The narrative on Jameis changes if he wins. You wanna know why nobody talks about Favre’s interceptions?
.
.
.
Yeah…but Farve was always LEADING his team to victories…or the feeling a victory was just ahead….nothing like Jamyth’s INT’s
January 20th, 2020 at 12:28 pm
I don’t think Oily Drew Rosenhaus is Jameis Winston’s agent but he does represent Shaq Barrett.
Rick Stroud @NFLSTROUD
@DeniseWhite_EAG announced Winston’s hiring of Joel Segal of Lagardère SportsLagardère Sports, calling him a “powerhouse” agent. He also represents Bucs WR DeSean Jackson, LB K. Beckwith, CB Carlton Davis
January 20th, 2020 at 12:34 pm
Is there really a market for JW? I’m not reading much interest in him from other teams. I’m ok keeping JW but only at market value which I assume is not too much considering no other team wants him as day 1 starter.
January 20th, 2020 at 12:37 pm
Rivers had a down year this year. The question is: is it an outlier, or the trend? The Chargers had one of the worst pass blocking lines in the league this year, which didn’t help Rivers’ cause. But the last few years, Rivers has been elite, top 5 DVOA. This year he dropped to 14th, which is still world’s better than Jameis who was 25th. I think the Bucs will look at the film on Rivers this year and see if his average season was due to age/decline or if it was circumstantial, and then make a decision. Right now, without looking at all the film on Rivers, I would still take him as a stopgap who might just be able to take us deep in the playoffs, while we develop a young QB (Eason?). Winston is who he is, and I don’t see a playoff run in his immediate future.
January 20th, 2020 at 12:37 pm
marine, where did you hear these rumors about loser Winston not taking a one year deal?
January 20th, 2020 at 12:42 pm
Just get another QB in the draft…keep Jameis as a bridge.
Even if you tag him….but draft another one anyways!!
Go Bucs!(Where? I have….NO idea.)
January 20th, 2020 at 12:44 pm
I’d take Rivers in a heartbeat, assuming he doesn’t want the money Winston is asking. Then draft a QB.
Youth and raw talent..sure, Jameis has an edge. But as was said… playing a smart game? Rivers has the edge.
And Stan…Belecheat says Rivers still has an excellent long ball. And I can imagine he can throw it up for grabs or hit wide open guys way down field just as well as Jameis.
Boys…this would be a chance to replace Jameis and his whopping contract expectations with a short term guy for a year or two, and then be able to reap the benefits of a Rookie Starter contract QB, and take a run at the SB.
I’m all about winning the big one.
January 20th, 2020 at 12:46 pm
But 1987…if Jameis pouts about that franchise contract and the new drafted QB, he might torch the team chemistry in his anger. And that could be a cancer for the organization.
January 20th, 2020 at 12:50 pm
@ T Rex
I don’t think Joe will want me to redirect his viewers to another site but here is the direct quote from the posted article:
Just franchise tag him and give him one more chance!”
Not happening, friends. Winston isn’t going to play under the franchise tag and his agents have made that abundantly clear. Second, Winston’s agents believe there are quarterback needy teams honestly willing to give him his asking price. Third, the Bucs need to save that franchise tag for Shaquil Barrett in case they can’t reach a long term agreement ahead of free agency and need that extra time to hammer out a deal. The Bucs aren’t going to risk losing the NFL’s sack leader to appease someone who is asking for far too much and ended his season the way Winston did.
January 20th, 2020 at 12:51 pm
mark2001…I don’t think he’ll do all of that….that’s a lot of speculation. He’s not that immature anymore. He’ll know why they’re drafting another QB just like everyone else.
January 20th, 2020 at 12:53 pm
I would much rather have Rivers as the mentor to a young QB. I can imagine Jameis’ teaching style(“Just keep ballin”) and it gives me the shivers.
Neither Rivers or Jameis is the long term solution, but Rivers would add some hoorah to the team, while Jameis’ idea of rallying the team consists of eating Ws.
Rivers would also be a help to the offensive coordinator because he does know what is needed to win in the League. He has won in one of the most snake bit franchises around, he could win here.
I still hope Jameis out=prices himself from this market. That will make it easier for the Jameis lovers to deal with.
January 20th, 2020 at 12:54 pm
@ stpetebucfan
One name I have not heard yet as a possible QB for the Bucs nest season is Ben Roethlisberger. Obviously Big Ben’s best days are behind him but he does have a pretty extensive history with Bruce Arians and he may be available next season. If he can stay healthy he may be a solid one or two year option and can also help groom the next QB very nicely. He definitely knows how to run BAs offense.
January 20th, 2020 at 12:55 pm
@ T Rex
I tried to answer you but my comment is “awaiting moderation”… hopefully it will show up sometime today…
January 20th, 2020 at 12:57 pm
I’m saying it’d be nice to see him in Arians offense year 2 over bringing in a new guy. Especially Rivers and his own int history.
That’s where I’m at though.
Don’t sign Winston long term to anything…just tag him….with another qb waiting in the wings if the INT’s climb or he gets too unbearable to watch anymore….
There’s decent QB’s in this draft that can be had at 14.
January 20th, 2020 at 1:00 pm
Marine …I’m sure Big Ben would love the targets he has to throw to here too.
No divas.
January 20th, 2020 at 1:05 pm
1987.. You haven’t been reading Joe very faithfully.. the word is that he wants 30 mil plus and would be upset with the franchise tag. And if that is the case, I say, let him walk.
January 20th, 2020 at 1:10 pm
@ Buc1987
I agree. I would like to see Winston get a second year in BAs system. I’m just not totally ok with giving him a very expensive long term contract based on his past body of work as a Buc. If he is willing to play under the franchise tag I would be fine with that.
January 20th, 2020 at 1:16 pm
If my team was contending for a playoff spot, and I had to win our last game of the season against a good team to get in, I would rather have Rivers under center.
January 20th, 2020 at 1:20 pm
He’s not even near Tampa.
Very unlikely. This feels more like media hype during a time when real stories are scarce.
January 20th, 2020 at 1:31 pm
All ya’ll are saying what someone else said “Jameis wants over $30 million a year.” Did anyone hear Jameis or his agent say that? Jameis’ agent is supposed to get as much as he can, but at this time I haven’t heard him say that he is asking for that much. I did hear Jameis say that he wanted to win and will take a pay cut to get good players on this team.
January 20th, 2020 at 1:33 pm
Now we’re floating Big Ben as a possibility. Come on, y’all.
January 20th, 2020 at 2:06 pm
In Winston’s third year under Koetter he was benched for Fitz after his five interception meltdown against Cinn, so why would any of you expect him to do better in his second year with BA? Oh, because Palmer was better? I keep telling you fools, he’s no Palmer, Manning, Luck, Farve, he’s Jameis Winston. He’ll never sniff those guys jocks as a winner. He’ll always lead the league in turnovers. Five years of it should be proof enough.
January 20th, 2020 at 2:16 pm
Bucsfanman Says:
January 20th, 2020 at 11:05 am
Arm talent? Yes
____
Amazing. It only took you three words to lose all credibility. Somewhere TMax and Kobe are silently weeping.
January 20th, 2020 at 2:21 pm
If Tua is there @ 14. I’m taking him.
January 20th, 2020 at 2:22 pm
Altered ego your right even though baker mayfield competey sucks he gets deals left and right but because of allegations and nothing more Jameis will never get the same equal treatment
January 20th, 2020 at 2:54 pm
P Rivers is 1 if the dumbest QBs ive ever seen….worse then Jameis!
January 20th, 2020 at 3:11 pm
Baker mayfield also grab his crotch on the sidelines on national tv, talks bad about coaches, teammates and other players around the league oh and he was actually arrested for a PROVEN crime but he still gets commercial. Manning PROVEN sexually assaulted a female trainer and still gets commercials. But jameis can’t because of crab legs and UNPROVEN allegations? As tupac says, this is a white man’s world. America is a trip
January 20th, 2020 at 4:18 pm
If Jameis took a 1 year, $15mil deal, which would allow the bucs to resign the talent, and allow the bucs to fill some holes with the extra cash. Bring in that free agent running back that arians is salivating over, and a free agent OLman, or quality veteran safety. Now that would be a playoff and beyond team. Might make up for those crab legs…
January 20th, 2020 at 4:18 pm
Mike Glennon is better, at least in some areas.
January 20th, 2020 at 4:25 pm
Its a copycat league, everyone says it every year. If Kansas City wins, it will be about speed, as their offense is the fastest in the league and Maholmes is so athletic, with a great arm and a smart defense reader.
If the Niners win, everyone will say a team needs great edge rushers and super athletic guys on the defensive line.
Jameis isn’t a coveted free agent. His past performance has shown a streaky passer who doesn’t put his team in position to win games due to the amount of points he gives away with the stupid interceptions. He is also a slower reader of defenses than the top end quarterbacks, along with periods of games where even when unpressured he’ll make inaccurate throws.
Licht has to copy the trends and high turnover quarterbacks only trend to lose. Put the money into offensive line, running back and draft a QB. Resign JPP, Suh and Barrett. Give them the money, they earn it, Jameis is all hype and no winning history.
January 20th, 2020 at 4:54 pm
for all of you calling Jameis a loser, its obvious you haven’t watched the Bucs since 1977 like I have This team has been a losing franchise for years Dungy came in and turn them in to winners and they fired him Gurden came in and won the super bowl and they fire him. Bucs better stick with Jameis at least for a year so they can hopefully show players that they can win. what top free agent would want to sign with a losing team like the Bucs unless they’re paid big money and when this happens most teams end up in salary cap hell.
January 20th, 2020 at 5:05 pm
If we draft a young QB we don’t want Jameis within a country mile of the kid. And, since it would be malpractice with our FA re-signing needs and cap space not to draft a young QB (right?)… goodbye Jameis!
Rivers? Just not sure if this year was an anomaly or the new normal for him… but might be great mentor.
January 20th, 2020 at 5:09 pm
I don’t think Jameis is a Loser.
But I think he has a losing attitude.
When you continually get up in front of the media and say things like, “I just need to get better” and “I’m ballin’ “ “Check your sheet”, “I’ll be a great QB when I stop turning the ball over”, – that tells me he’s in Denial about what the true nature of his job is , which is Advance and Protect, not Reckless Advance.
He hasn’t earned a $30 million or even $27 million per year contract, regardless of arguments about the QB market or agent demands.
He may become “Great” but Bucs should not diminish the talent of rest of team on the “hope” that he does- because there is no evidence he will.
January 20th, 2020 at 5:10 pm
Younger but dumber
Jameis might be great at copying plays on a whiteboard but when it’s crunch time I’d take 20-23 other QBs to make the right decision with the ball
January 20th, 2020 at 5:47 pm
Rivers earlier in his career was better than Jameis was this season, but not by much – and certainly the current Rivers is not as good as Jameis. The only reason you’d want Rivers is if you’re already planning on getting a young QB to groom and there’s someone the Bucs really really want that they think they can actually get – which there has been zero buzz about.
But sorry Winston haters, but the NFL’s leading passer is going to be back and he’s going to lead the team deep into the playoffs – and you idiots will be rooting against him and the team the entire time because you’re triggered idiots.
January 20th, 2020 at 6:16 pm
Munch: Ahem…the league’s turnover leader will be back? No one cares about your joke stats. How many of the top 5 passers made the playoffs? How many?
NONE. Then why do you care how many yards he passes for if it doesn’t translate to wins not just here but league wide?
Are you stupid? Dumb? Or just a complete Winston nut rider?
January 20th, 2020 at 6:30 pm
Munch,
Five years of playoff idiocy!
January 20th, 2020 at 8:13 pm
Gosh after watching 2 weekends of NFLs best quarterbacking a photo of Jamyth can only draw 60 responses…, maybe the tide has turned as Buc fans realize how far off the mark Jameis is…. Ndog there was a pun in there
January 20th, 2020 at 9:16 pm
I’d rather roll with Brees on a 2 year, plus 3rd year option deal. Saints with re-sign Bridgewater as backup there, and are now rolling with Taysom Hill as their starter. Because of Hill’s FRA tender due him this year, other teams are going to attempt to sign Hill to an offer sheet that the Saints can’t match, then the Saints will likely match it, definitely letting Brees walk at 41 and less arm strength. Maybe Bridgewater stays or doesn’t based on Hill money.
But Breed and wife are very concerned about their kids staying in same schools, same house, etc, and Brees could very easily commute back and forth to New Orleans from Tampa during season, and Brees is the type of guy that would love to stick it to his former team, twice a year, and in division no less! While Brees isn’t the youngest or most mobile guy, he makes a ton more sense than Rivers, and we could easily contend right away. Gives us 3 years to find his successor.
January 20th, 2020 at 9:20 pm
And Rapaport is a hack. As a lot are. Jay Glazer and Schefter are really the only credible, worthwhile sources in that type of info.
January 20th, 2020 at 9:33 pm
so funny o hear we are looking at rivers or brady… They don’t want to come here!!!! same with Breees
January 20th, 2020 at 9:41 pm
Jameis, rivers, bridgwater, Mariota, tannehill, eli,………….all of these QBs are pretty much going to give you the same results. If the team is better…….they will be better than what we saw in 2019. I personally think it comes down to price. If we can get one of these other guys for 1/2 the price of Jameis than they are better for the team. Otherwise If the market is equal for all these guys, stick with Jameis.
Time to find a hidden gem in the 2-3rd round.
January 20th, 2020 at 10:42 pm
I’m taking Jameis over Rivers every single time. If Brady wants to get a suntan, I’d dump Jameis like a cheating gjrlfriend. Under any scenario, I’m drafting somebody after round two.
January 21st, 2020 at 2:50 pm
Licht is eventually gonna get fired over this QB thing. Pretty much found himself in a damned with whatever you do, kinda situation.