New House Rules In Effect
December 31st, 2019
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BY IRA KAUFMAN
No matter what decision is reached in the executive suite halls of One Buc Place, there needs to be a different dynamic under center for this franchise next fall.
Let’s assume Jameis Winston remains the starting quarterback for Tampa Bay in the 2020 season opener. That’s not exactly a stretch, despite the growing number of Winston skeptics who are making their feelings known on this No. 1 Buccaneer web site.
The most unlikely option has the Bucs lavishing a lucrative long-term extension for the first NFL quarterback since 1988 to throw at least 30 picks. That’s not going to happen, but the Glazers may not be opposed to slapping a franchise tag on No. 3 to give him one final opportunity to prove he’s the franchise cornerstone expected when the Bucs made him the No. 1 overall pick of the 2015 draft.
But if Winston returns in that scenario, all bets should be off regarding his job security.
Buc fans knew that, barring injury, Winston was going to take all the snaps this season. That directive was reinforced by Bruce Arians time and again once he replaced Dirk Koetter a year ago.
No. 3 got a full 16, explains Tampa Bay’s only Hall of Fame voter.
No matter how poorly Winston played, or how ugly the standings looked, Arians was on board with giving him a full, uninterrupted shot to win this coaching staff over.
Well, he’s had his shot — and the jury is still out. You don’t win your coaches over by directing an offense that led the league with 41 giveaways, six more turnovers than any other club.
The List
Yes, ball security counts.
Of the 10 teams that finished at the bottom of the turnover ratio list, guess how many are still alive?
Zero.
Of the 11 teams with the best turnover differential, guess how many are still preparing game plans?
Ten, with the Steelers being the only outlier.
That’s why every NFL head coach stresses the turnover chart as the No. 1 indicator of success at the pro level.
So if Winston returns in 2020 under a short-term deal, he needs to know from the start that his hold on the starting job isn’t guaranteed. It needs to be understood by everyone in the organization that Winston will be held to account — perhaps for the first time in a long time.
That sounds like a prudent strategy, but it will work only if Arians is convinced he has a viable option. Ryan Griffin has thrown four meaningful passes in his NFL career, so let’s not go there.
Veteran Blaine Gabbert, who dislocated his left shoulder in the preseason, could hit the free-agent market.
That might break the heart of Arians, who talks Gabbert up like he’s the second coming of Carson Palmer. What I see is a former first-round pick who flamed out in Jacksonville and San Francisco before starting five games for Arians with the 2017 Cardinals.
What I see is a guy with 48 career TD passes and 47 interceptions.
Heck, Winston’s ratio puts that to shame.
The Leash
You can’t have Winston on a short leash next fall unless you have some confidence in his backup. Gabbert has done very little in nine years to generate that kind of confidence.
A 2018 flashback of sorts is in order, writes Ira Kaufman.
That’s why the Bucs need to draft a quarterback in the first three rounds or acquire a better veteran option behind Winston. If the Bucs open at 1-3 with Winston under center, Arians needs to stop the bleeding immediately and bench him.
That wasn’t going to happen in 2019, even in the midst of a 2-6 start.
The Bucs didn’t want Winston peering over his shoulder pads at a viable backup like Ryan Fitzpatrick, so they rigged the roster.
That nonsense is over.
If Winston returns, it should be under a new set of house rules. No more coddling, no more excuses, no more patience. Add another key item to Tampa Bay’s list of offseason priorities.
A backup plan.
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Ira Kaufman launched his professional NFL beat coverage in 1979, back when Earl Campbell was the toast of the league and Lee Roy Selmon was defensive player of the year. After a lifetime at The Tampa Tribune, “The Sage of Tampa Bay Sports” joined JoeBucsFan.com in July of 2016. His twice-weekly podcast and three columns per week appear here year-round and are presented by Bill Currie Ford. Tampa Bay’s only Hall of Fame voter is a regular on SiriusXM Mad Dog Radio and a part of the FOX-13 Tailgate Sunday show, in addition to his other appearances.
December 31st, 2019 at 4:14 pm
I wonder if Mike Glennon will be available. Lolololol
December 31st, 2019 at 4:16 pm
With the excellent bucs receivers an average qb will take the team to the playoffs!
December 31st, 2019 at 4:18 pm
Ira, why do the Bucs need another year to figure Winston out? Isn’t five years long enough? Isn’t 16 games under BA and BL enough? Aren’t we going to have this same conversion 365 days from now? When do we cut bait and move on?
December 31st, 2019 at 4:19 pm
This article confirms that this franchise is a mess because of the QB situation.
My only problem with franchising Winston is that you’re overpaying him by giving him $27 million. He’s not worth it, not even for a year, and it effects paying other players we need to retain. I’m more willing to sign a 3yr, $45 mil deal with $15—20 mil guaranteed that can be spread over the first 2 years. Frankly, that’s all Winston is worth at this point.
December 31st, 2019 at 4:19 pm
Agree Ira, you got to draft one in rounds 2-4. I’d even say take one at pick 14 IF Arians LOVES someone and has more confidence in them than Winston.
Franchise Winston and groom his potential replacement if he underperforms. If Winston balls out, resign him and trade away the young QB to recoup your picks.
December 31st, 2019 at 4:24 pm
I agree with Troy. Winston is not worth the franchise tag. Save that for Shaq. Let Winston test the free agent waters. With these weapons, Dalton would be serviceable. Then draft yourself a QB in round 1.
December 31st, 2019 at 4:30 pm
You can’t franchise tag Winston and have a viable backup QB to take over without foregoing other pieces that will cost a chunk of that $89M cap space. That is why I seriously they waste $27M on a franchise tag…even if Arians says Wow, only 21 of those INTs were his fault (still more than any QB in league).
The Glazers don’t owe Winston any more looks, and they really can’t afford to bleed more fans by saying he gets anothr year. Those last two games are the worst of any stretch for ticket buying fans in all five years. Directly in Winston’s hands to hand the Bucs 9-7 record and directly blown by Winston for the same reasons we all knew were there. And his passer rating was as low this year as his rookie year, with more INTs by far than ever. No, this is not give him one more chance and be ready to pull him. Certainly not going to tag him.
December 31st, 2019 at 4:30 pm
Nice article Ira. I think we should both draft a guy after round one and sign a viable veteren. I also like Mark Dominik’s idea to offer Winston the 20 million that he made this year and if he refuses, let him walk.
December 31st, 2019 at 4:33 pm
Isn’t it a pretty common practice for players to do their best during a contract year? Winston has known this was a contract year since oh yeah 2015. This WAS the best he has to offer. One problem is though he’s only 25 years old and may end up being a superstar. Wouldn’t that be our luck?
December 31st, 2019 at 4:35 pm
Ira, the turnover differential has been trending as the number one indicator of wins and losses for a while. In an offense first league you cannot give your opponent extra drives while decreasing your own.
We’ll never win anything with Winston at qb. We need to cut the cord and move on.
I think both sides need to move on. The fan base shouldn’t be this fractured.
December 31st, 2019 at 4:35 pm
The only two ways to force Winston to face consequences for his failures……
1. Dump him….let him be someone else’s problem.
2. Franchise him….and bench him (in game) each time he fails…..
Koetter tried # 2 and that didn’t work.
Here is the question…..Why would you pay $27 million for Jameis and then spend a high draft pick on a QB?
December 31st, 2019 at 4:36 pm
Noodle armed Sam Bradford got a $20M one- year contract from Arizona in his last year. No way JW accepts less than that.
December 31st, 2019 at 4:40 pm
First half the season, Winston “won” one game clearly with his own skill: LA Rams, who turned out not to be that good. He didn’t lose CAR 1 but he didn’t win it. Basically, game manager Winston. Like with the LA Rams game, he did well in ATL 1 although his D bailed him out there. He direcly lost SF, TEN, CAR 2, NO x 2, HOU, and ATL. They almost lost to ARI at home but the D got a late pick to save the game. Due to more INTs, they beat IND barefy by 3…and nuthuggers were saying INTs don’t matter. If either Gay or Winston do their jobs, they beat ATL. You’d expect the #1 overall pick to not flub that one especially. If that worth $21.5M. Will anyone else pay him that? No way. $15M? We’re talking desperation for another team who loses a QB in playoffs/offseason who would pay that. He would be lucky if the Bucs paid him $15M with some incentives. He would be ecstatic. Top rated backup? $8M max. That’s good money to most folks. And if he turns his nose up at ANY Bucs offer, that’s likely the best he will do. Franchise tag? No way.
December 31st, 2019 at 4:44 pm
BucnJim…Winston has had three “prove it” years now. 2017 the wheels came off, he got hurt, and his Uber screw job broke out. He was LUCKY the report and suspension didn’t break until AFTER FA and draft because he very well have been gone then. 2018…another prove it goofy and lost year. Benched twice, played well in six meaningless games at the end and they brought in BA. Results: Worse than the previous years. A third prove it year and his option year blown to smitherines. So three prove it years, two directly contract years…and two duds by Winston. You are right…he should have played better these past TWO years. And didn’t.
December 31st, 2019 at 4:47 pm
Under Ira’s scenario, we would either have about $35+ million wrapped up in Winston and a vet……or $27 for Winston and spend a high draft pick…..
I’d say, if we are going to roll the dice with Winston again….just stick with RG4 and yank Jameis every time he fails…..and, be very open and public about it.
The one thing Jameis cares about most is playing….
December 31st, 2019 at 4:49 pm
Let’s go back to the facts about wins and loses in today’s NFL. When you are -2 in the turnover battle you have a 23% chance of winning the game. The Bucs have averaged 2 turnovers a game so what chance did we really have to win most of the games this year? We made a few good comebacks but isn’t that our history anyway? Make it close enough to keep us all involved.
December 31st, 2019 at 4:50 pm
I really hope NDOG reads this article. Ira is well respected an has more knowledge then all these commenters put together oh an he’s a hall of fame voters. Winston might be able to get us to the playoffs with a better defense an ST an a more disciplined team all around but those INTs won’t cut it in the playoffs
December 31st, 2019 at 4:50 pm
Mr. Reality we agree 100% this time and is why I was saying the Bucs messed this up last year. They should have signed him to a three year deal last season to void this past season so they would have two years left at a reasonable salary. Now if they don’t meet his demands they have to franchise him with no viable backup, cause they can’t afford it, or let him walk. Either way it is not an ideal situation. They botched this whole deal now we just have to hope it somehow works out well for us. We shall see.
December 31st, 2019 at 4:53 pm
If we win those last two games this is a ridiculous conversation to even have, he would be brought back no matter what.
With Godwin and Evans out we still had great chances to win both games.
Did yall really forget we just won 4 straight before that?
I get it, he left a sour taste in our mouths but this TEAM showed a lot of improvement and we seriously almost won 2 games without our best wideouts and half our games with them. 5 of the last 6 before those final two games.
Jameis will be back and better than ever in 2020. Put that in your pipe and smoke it!
December 31st, 2019 at 4:54 pm
“Now if they don’t meet his demands they have to franchise him with no viable backup, cause they can’t afford it, or let him walk.”
Demands? I think Winston’s demands came back other way for six points to lose two games that he needed badly. I do agree…they won’t/can’t franchise him. And I don’t think they are interested in that anyway.
December 31st, 2019 at 4:56 pm
We should never spend 27M to franchise Jay Miss. Even if we get a middle of the pack journeyman acting as a bridge for a new QB we draft, it will be an upgrade over Jay Miss. Spend money keeping that D line together. A franchise QB does not have to be taken in the 1st round (see Russell Wilson, Tom Brady and many others).
Sometimes you just have to admit your failure. Jay Miss is a complete failure for the #1 overall pick. He’s still the same moron he’s always been. He has no pocket presence, he stares down receivers and makes multiple stupid decisions each and every game.
His best game was his first college game at Pittsburgh. He’s continued to go downhill since then. He was bailed out to win the National Championship by having a fantastic receiving corps as well as a great college tight end.
December 31st, 2019 at 4:58 pm
1bucfan, Ira is the same guy that said JPP should have been cut and I was the guy says he would be back after the bye week. So there’s that, plus I don’t listen to reporters cause they always ALWAYS have an agenda. Lastly I don’t let others opinion influence my opinion. I watch the games so there is no need to listen to what someone else says. Heck he also blames our record on the QB, when my two eye balls tell me we have had a god awful defense, a deplorable kicker and virtually no run game. Now has Jameis been fantastic, sometimes yes sometimes no, but you don’t win games with trash all over the place and this year is no exception.
December 31st, 2019 at 4:59 pm
Snowman, disagree. They were LUCKY they beat the Cards and Colts…by a total of four points (was it?) as the D overcame Winston’s picks. Many cavelier idiots were pounding their chest here about the BS “keep firing” from BA as if that is a simple way to overcome sucking enough to usually lose all games. Odds would usually be they’d be sitting here at 5 and 11 right now. Winston should consider himself lucky that he’s even getting any attention right now.
December 31st, 2019 at 5:00 pm
Mr. Reality if they let him hit the market he is as good as gone. Some people are clearly going to be happy about that, but those people are traditionally complete idiots.
December 31st, 2019 at 5:03 pm
Ndog, I’ll add they’d be stupid to have signed him up for anything last year because of his suspension and benching for poor play. ON ONE rewards that stuff. Yes, many were screaming to sign him after he happened to turn in good games at the end of the meaningly season. Thank God the Bucs weren’t stupid enough to do that. In my book, they are two years overdue to send him away.
December 31st, 2019 at 5:06 pm
Ndog…who do you think wants Winston as the face of their franchise or long term QB. No, not CHI….LOL. The Bucs would LOVE for Winston to start talking to others in FA because they know teams are going to throw down serious coin for a guy who has all the baggage and the QB whisperer couldn’t fix him. Yeah, maybe they offer $8M and chance to compete…but good luck even with that.
December 31st, 2019 at 5:10 pm
If Jameis is on this team, i’m taking next year off. I’ve seen this clown show too many times.
December 31st, 2019 at 5:11 pm
Reality, we can’t play the LUCKY game because the Texans are lucky Brate got the dropsies, the Falcons are LUCKY Matt Gay went shankapottamus, and theres other games this year where the other team was LUCKY to win, am i wrong?
Seattle was LUCKY to get they won the coin toss, what was the game where we didn’t get the scoop and score? that was LUCKY.
Im just saying that this season Jameis PROVED he could win when his defense played competent and he wasn’t down TWO pro bowl receivers.
December 31st, 2019 at 5:11 pm
Ira says: “That’s why the Bucs need to draft a quarterback in the first three rounds or acquire a better veteran option behind Winston.”
They need to do all of this. Which is why they can’t overpay Winston.
Ira says” If the Bucs open at 1-3 with Winston under center, Arians needs to stop the bleeding immediately and bench him.”
If this team starts 1-3 with Winston under center the Glazer kids and JoeBucsFan will outnumber the rest of the fans in the stadium. Both BA and Licht woudl have to go because their cred for keeping Winston a sixth year would be well below zilch. And too fans would likely not come back until they draft another high QB in the first round. Years and years.
December 31st, 2019 at 5:12 pm
Mr. Reality dude come on how can anyone take you seriously after this post?
He direcly lost SF, TEN, CAR 2, NO x 2, HOU, and ATL.
Dude even though I don’t agree with you on SF I’ll give you that one and Car 2 and Houston.
How can you say TEN when Arains flatly said zero TOs were on Jameis?
The first NO game he had zero TOs?
The second NO game we were down 20-0 before Jameis turned the ball over where it was on him?
Atlanta are you kidding me we had a kicker miss 3 FGs, a running back fumble on his first carry and a defense that yet again blew a 4th lead but the QB “directly lost” it because of a tipped pass in overtime?
See posts like this are exactly why I post so often defending Jameis. Not cause he is perfect or cause I love him or because I am a fan of him more than the Bucs, but because people post garbage that I just can’t stand.
December 31st, 2019 at 5:12 pm
It feels as if franchise tag is inevitable and that is depressing as I just don’t see how you can rationally expect him to play any better than this year. He can’t avoid the TO’s no matter how many heart-to-hearts he has with Koetter/Byron or how many assistant QB whisperers you load up on. He is who he is and isn’t going to change. Maybe the Bucs make the playoffs next year simply by sustaining the improvement on D and adding some margin of error for JW with changes to OL and Week 17 RoJo for a whole year… maybe. But how do you preserve the D while paying a $27M cap charge for the tag? I just don’t see JW taking less or any way to keep the D’s front 7 intact with what would be left of our cap space. I liked a lot (but not all) of what we saw when Fitz was throwing to our receivers and the receiving talent has now tripled… are we really that sure there are no other QBs who can connect with this group? I’m afraid we will never know as the cake feels baked for a JW tag.
December 31st, 2019 at 5:13 pm
BTW with a 3500 yard passer, I dont think anyone calls this WR group “elite”. They are elite because the numbers have shown them to be, but what if they didnt have the numbers? They’d just be Jarvis Landry and OBJ.
December 31st, 2019 at 5:13 pm
Well I just proved your book, Mr. Reality is fiction. NEXT!
December 31st, 2019 at 5:14 pm
The jury is still out??
The Bucs had alot of momentum with the 4 game winning streak and 2 home games coming up-
The D is playing great, including scoring a td in Falcons game.
What does this guy do? In the last 2 games he throws 6 picks, 2 of them pick 6’s
What does media say?
Evans and Godwin were out
Gay missed the field goals
Too many penalties
OJ is a bust
If he comes back, it will be more of the same- excuses, excuses, excuses
And Bucs will have another losing season because the turnovers aren’t going away…
December 31st, 2019 at 5:16 pm
“Im just saying that this season Jameis PROVED he could win when his defense played competent and he wasn’t down TWO pro bowl receivers.”
He lost as many games by himself when the D played competent as games that he won.
December 31st, 2019 at 5:18 pm
New system, and WRs being out ring hollow. He still had familiar receivers, where Perriman and running game actaully stepped up. #1 overall pick should have the system down with familiar receivers, and it looks like he did. He just continues to make bad decisions and that won’t change.
December 31st, 2019 at 5:19 pm
@Ndog … “Mr. Reality if they let him hit the market he is as good as gone. Some people are clearly going to be happy about that, but those people are traditionally complete idiots.”
I love it when commenters have such completely open minds Ndog. It really puts statements like ‘traditionally complete idiots’ in perspective. Troll on …
December 31st, 2019 at 5:19 pm
Mr Reality, I 100% disagree, but maybe we have different idea of what a competent defense is.
The Bucs did not have one such game in the first half of the season and were 5-3 in the second half of the season so what you are saying is impossible.
December 31st, 2019 at 5:21 pm
Ah Ndog, but Mr. Reality is reality. Ndog is Stranger than Fiction. Either FSU through or through or is Jameis himself. I could say you are an idiot but that wouldn’t be nice.
December 31st, 2019 at 5:22 pm
Mr. Reality Says:
December 31st, 2019 at 5:16 pm
“Im just saying that this season Jameis PROVED he could win when his defense played competent and he wasn’t down TWO pro bowl receivers.”
He lost as many games by himself when the D played competent as games that he won.
Easy, one loss and that was vs Houston.
December 31st, 2019 at 5:24 pm
With 3500 yards no one calls this WR group elite? Ha! I’d rather have the 10 or more wins and a shot at the post season. There is a slew of playoff teams without the complete “elite” receiving corps…and guess what? The QBs didn’t need that because they did their jobs and minded rule #1: protect the football. Amazing how that works.
December 31st, 2019 at 5:24 pm
So Mr. Reality I see you have nothing about the facts I provided. Typical
December 31st, 2019 at 5:28 pm
Wow! Ndog is JW’s biggest defender and he’s willing to concede that JW lost 4 games. How many elite QBs personally cause 4 losses? Answer: None. You can’t lead a team to the playoffs much less a SB if you give away 1 out of every 4 games… and the playoffs just amplify your tendencies good and bad so even if we get in JW is just as likely as not to cause a 56-52 loss with 600 yards passing for 7 TDs and 5 picks. How will that press conference go? Something like: “Check the stats. I’m ballin’ and just need to quit giving it to the other team… next year.” Ugh!
December 31st, 2019 at 5:28 pm
Ndog…when the D was minimally competent to win, not often ever good early in the season…but they’d have been SF, TEN, CAR2, HOU, and ATL had Winston not dumped wih so many turnovers. That’s four more wins. But alas…
December 31st, 2019 at 5:29 pm
Reality, my point in saying that is simple… They are both widely considered Elite WRs, no?
They couldn’t both produce and be considered elite without a QB to get them the ball. Only thing is Jameis gets the ball to the other team too much too, I get it. I never said that he was perfect or the greatest, but he PROVED he can win in this league when his TEAM steps up too.
December 31st, 2019 at 5:29 pm
Wish we had a contingency plan when it came to the GM. When he starts to flame (which he ALWAYS does) we have a backup plan.
December 31st, 2019 at 5:30 pm
Ok i’ll give you London, that was straight bad. I think i already blocked that out of my memory.
December 31st, 2019 at 5:31 pm
Here comes Ndog with the “Winston only cost us 1 game” BS. LMAO. This is my favorite part.
December 31st, 2019 at 5:34 pm
But Ira…as I remember, the last time we didn’t “coddle” Jameis and gave him real competition, he didn’t do very well with it? I don’t know if he is emotionally strong enough to deal with that.
December 31st, 2019 at 5:38 pm
I get where Ndog comes from. I dont think Winston is gods gift to QBs but when people spew so much hate and completely wrong information because they are done with him, it makes you want to defend and help people see the good and why we think he could win in this league.
Its just a difference in opinion, since when are people stupid or nuthuggers for holding an opinion about something. I swear some of y’all are just too sensitive.
Personally, I just like the debate and tend to be a person that looks at the positives. I will say the INTs are wearing super thin and sometimes I wonder how green the grass could be…At the end of the day I will ALWAYS be a Bucs Fan first and foremost but whatever happens I will also be a JW fan too.
December 31st, 2019 at 5:43 pm
I recall the days of watching an AWESOME defense led by a game manager QB hopefully getting us in field goal range to win with 3-4 field goals and maybe, maybe getting a TD. That was Dungy ball.
Maybe Bucco Bruce can do better with an excellent D, with a scoring offense. Per his presser, who is behind door #2? Bridgewater is popular on this site….but Teddy is in a Payton QB-friendly offense w Kamara and wide open receivers. How will Teddy do in Bruce down-field offense? the $20M question….
Posters???
December 31st, 2019 at 5:45 pm
This is getting lame. Deciding who is to blame for a loss is a weak freaking analysis for a QB.
This is scapegoating at it’s finest.
The Atlanta game is a perfect example. Doesn’t matter whose fault the game is. If we are talking QB that pick in OT is unacceptable. A franchise QB should be expected to get you the win there. Not commit a fatal error to end the game. Despite anything else that happened that is bad QB play. Not even debatable.
Against San Fran same thing.
Texans same thing.
Against Carolina when our offense finally woke up and started moving the ball he made a fatal error in the red zone(or just outside redzone) when the team badly needed points. That is bad QB play.
Even in the Rams game he had a fatal error at a time when his main job was to protect the football………Great play all around otherwise but 4th quarter errors have to be avoided at all costs.
So much of the evaluation of Winston(and the NFL in general)is about situational awareness. You gotta understand the situation. You must protect the football during key moments of games. It doesn’t matter how much yards and points you put up. Limiting errors at pivitol moments is just as important as the stats. Maybe more important………This is undebatable. If you don’t believe me watch the playoffs this year and watch how many games come down to the final minute……..Then tell me how many of those teams win if they give up a fatal error near the end of the fourth. The answer is none.
December 31st, 2019 at 5:49 pm
i’m for tanking next season for trevor lawrence, transition tag winston, franchise shaq with the promise of a long term contract in 2021, sign jpp, suh, nassib, perriman, draft delpin if he’s there at 14, then go offense line, defense line, rb, then best available player from then out, if winston screws the pooch yank em and let our back up play, at the end of the season we got our core defense under contract our db’s will be a year better and more experienced, we should be in position to get who i think is going to be an outstanding nfl QB and winston can go up in smoke
December 31st, 2019 at 5:52 pm
Snowmanm you say “They couldn’t both produce and be considered elite without a QB to get them the ball. Only thing is Jameis gets the ball to the other team too much too, I get it. I never said that he was perfect or the greatest, but he PROVED he can win in this league when his TEAM steps up too.”
No one argues that Winstons can’t make the throws. But even with some amazing throws comes overconfidence that most would not dare try because they KNOW they are too risky…and will get your team burned. Winston can’t win in this league enough to cut it. He wants too…who wouldn’t. But he either won’t or can’t, and neither is acceptable after five years.
December 31st, 2019 at 5:53 pm
i do not think winning is in the cards with jameis under center, it looks like a rebuild to me for sure, or restock reload, whatever were at 14 wish we were at 4 we could make a run for burrow
December 31st, 2019 at 5:57 pm
Sage … Really enjoyed the first half of this article. Spot on about turnovers (although I personally prefer looking at Turnover Differential rather than just TOs). Having the 4th-most takeaways in the league helped our Bucs’ offense A BUNCH.
The second half of your article confuses me. I agree with Mr Reality & TBBF … there’s no way we can afford to franchise Jameis ($27 mil?) AND either pay for a starter-capable backup or use our 1st round pick on a QB. That’s cost-prohibitive IF we also expect to have a strong defense, fix our OLine & improve our running game.
Took a cursory relook at the 2019 season and the only word that adequately describes it is ‘bizarre’. And that’s being kind. Jameis threw 3 or more INTs in 5 games … for a total of 19 of his 30 INTs. Our record in those 5 games was 1-4 (we beat the Colts 38-35 in a game that shouldn’t have nearly been that close because we had a MINUS 3 TO Differential). Jameis threw 2 INTs in 4 more games … our record there was 2-2, although we could have easily been 4-0 in those games if not for the 1st qtr fumble in the Titans game & just 1 missed FG in the last Falcons game).
That’s 9 games in which Jameis threw 2 or more INTs (27 of his 30 INTs) and we went 3-6 in those games. In the other 7 games in which Jameis threw 1 or 0 INTs, Bucs went 4-3 and could’ve done better than that if our defense was doing better earlier in the season (we lost the Giants, Saints & Seahawks games in the 1st half of the season with Jameis throwing a total of ONE INT in those 3 games while our young Secondary was still gaining experience).
So what does that tell me? In the final analysis, MONEY WILL TALK, but … I think BA will come to the conclusion that ‘Jameis is fixable’. IF Jameis asks too much however, I doubt that Bucs will re-sign him because without a strong defense, OLine & running game, we’d get the same results next year. Improving those 3 costs money, and I’m convinced THAT’S where the Bucs’ priorities will be. But if Jameis is reasonable, he’ll likely be here for another 1-3 years. And possibly much much longer.
December 31st, 2019 at 5:58 pm
James West…there is enough cap space that NO ONE needs to be tagged. If you can pay Shaq (and they can), then pay him. Would be nice to lock up Godwin a year in advance but that is no longer the priority. Get a bridge QB and draft one that saves you $13M in 2021 and lock Godwin up then. But franchise tag is only something to use if you don’t want the guy to walk if you can’t pay him what he wants. They will likely pay Shaq $16M, JPP 9, Nassib 6, and see if they can Suh for 10. Can still pay $32M or so in QBs, but no way do they waste that on Winston.
December 31st, 2019 at 6:01 pm
Let’s say Jameis is gone next year….
Who do y’all want?
December 31st, 2019 at 6:04 pm
Defense Rules…if BA thinks Winston can be fixed, the goal will be to pay Winston just above what another team would…and that won’t be more than $15M, certainly not $20M. I am certain the priority for 2020 is keep the D, and see what other options will get you a QB to bridge a year or two–good enough to make the team not be Bucs beating Bucs. If that QB is Winston, fine, but don’t forget the fans that aren’t sitting the staidum now will probably respond best to keeping the D, moving on from Winston with veteran bring along a new guy.
December 31st, 2019 at 6:11 pm
Last one from me for awhile you know it’s not against the law to actually draw some plays up the highlight some of the strengths of your QB/players. I think everyone on this board will admit that Jameis is pretty special outside the pocket and I think we maybe ran 3 plays all year where this was done by design. So very few of those, very few RB screens nothing to get easy yards and that’s not just for our QB, that’s for all QBs. I mean watch the other games around the league, almost every game you see at least one of those flip “passes” with a guy coming in motion, we did not run one of those all year. We ran zero trick plays all year long, very few delayed draws just nothing to keep the defense guessing. I mean I almost fell out of my chair at the stadium when we ran a play out if the wildcat on Sunday. I mean look at the Saints they have Drew freaking Brees and they run different stuff all the time to the point you have no idea what’s coming. Yes Jameis stays on his first read to long and some time does predetermine throws. But the fact that routes are getting jumped means that there is no fear and they feel very good that what they think is coming is actually coming. That is not good at all regardless of the QB.
December 31st, 2019 at 6:15 pm
There are any number of veteran choices that would be much cheaper than the 27 mil franchise tag……
Manning, Dalton, Bridgewater, Rivers, Keenum, Tannehill, Mariota, Fitz, Foles and those are just a few.
I think any of them could have gotten us to 7-9 this year……and it’s doubtful any would cost $20 mil.
December 31st, 2019 at 6:17 pm
Or you save yourself all those headaches and what if scenarios by letting him walk, drafting a QB and getting a Cam or Rivers for a couple of years to mentor the rookie.
Anything else is a waste of time.
December 31st, 2019 at 6:18 pm
There is not a FA out there who is a long term solution, including Winston. Tagging anyone like MIN did Cousins is way overpaying. Rivers is the best option for the type of offense the Bucs run. But Rivers has his own issues but his recievers are not as good as Bucs are and he has more experience…he has won…he has put the team on his back and won games. Question is would he be more cost effective than the status quo. Probably. Dalton, Flacco, Foles, Manning, Keenum are not great QBs either but they also may be enough to bridge to the next one. And they have ALL won….But they are in 2020 deals that would probably mean overpaying.
December 31st, 2019 at 6:20 pm
What is very ironic here is that Winston should be nothing more than somebody’s backup.
If the Glazers decide to keep Winston and force the fans to endure another miserable season watching him give the ball away and cost the team games, then the vast majority of the fam base will jump ship and Ray Jay will be empty.
Hopefully the Glazers care more about Bucs fans than that
December 31st, 2019 at 6:22 pm
You could find fault with every single QB I listed…..but you can also find fault with Winston.
For me, it’s all about the money…..we need money to sign the players we want to keep….
December 31st, 2019 at 6:23 pm
I like Rivers too, he’d be my first choice for a veteran. That guy gets blasted and still delivers some dimes. I’d worry about his lack of mobility with this line but hey if Carson Palmer can thrive, maybe old man Rivers can too.
Then draft someone to groom.
December 31st, 2019 at 6:25 pm
BrianBucs they do care more than that about the fans, but they’re also a lot smarter than some of the fans who think that players fill seats.
Wins fill the stadium.
Simple
As
That.
December 31st, 2019 at 6:28 pm
Get rid of turnovers all together except for the occasional fumble.
Run the wishbone. Simple.
December 31st, 2019 at 6:42 pm
I’d like to see us with a mobile QB unless we can develop a good running game and that’s going to take drafting a RB & OT……
December 31st, 2019 at 6:45 pm
All qbs in playoffs:
Td to int ratio-
Josh allen – 20-9
Deshaun watson – 26-12
TAnnehill. – 22-6
Tom brady – 24-8
Cousins – 26-6
Drew brees – 27-4
Russel wilson – 31-5
Carson wentz – 27-7
Garopollo – 27-13
Lamar jacskon – 36-6
Patrick Mahommes – 26-5
Aaron rodgers – 26-4
Jamies only qb with 30 and 30
Only qb with 7 picks sixes
So turnovers do matter i guess
All these guess are at least 2 to 1 td to int
Jameis closest year was 19-11
December 31st, 2019 at 6:52 pm
There are 24 QBs in the upcoming draft. Though I would really like to see Delpit with the first pick, interview them all and find one you like and draft him.
Keep Griffin and give a legitimate competition a chance. Also run a legitimate preseason, since training camp isn’t long enough to learn where your locker is.
Maybe with a Franchise tag jameis will finally figure out that he needs to come to camp in better football shape and be ready to roll, if not, sit him.
Maybe Leftwich will also find some spice for his offense.
December 31st, 2019 at 6:53 pm
True, wins fill the stadium, but an NFL team, win or lose, should always have a rabid, avid fan base. It wanes when longtime loyal fans see poor decisions by people remaining year after year. The Glazers are already pushing it with some of their decisions, as fans still try to get over the housecleaning of Gruden and his team. And the seat contracts and deposits. Licht has worn out confidence in the fan base and BA may have given him temporary reprieve, but if BA misses again on Winston, they are ALL done. Winston is his own trainwreck…his off field and on field antics have split the fan base. Worse than any I’ve ever seen. Not good. The Bucs have a team where they are so off the mark in the past five or ten years that the team would have to win over more than a season and have players that inspire fans. The QB needs to be one of those. He is not.
December 31st, 2019 at 6:57 pm
Craig, probably will see 8 QBs go in the first two rounds. Who do you see as those that are best. Bucs pick 14th, may get a top 5 of those. IF they pick a QB in Round 1.
I like Griffin and he’s been solid as a team mate and actually a very accurate passer. They should have put him in a while last year in 2018 but Koetter was trying to save his job. But I think he is making like almost $2M now his gravy train may be ending due to logevity. But he’s been made a millionaire by the NFL, so he can’t be too unhappy.
December 31st, 2019 at 7:01 pm
Run the bone? Ha! That would fun (funny?) to see. Peyton, Dare, FoJo all in at sime time? Yuck. Vita Vea at FB? Hmmm.
December 31st, 2019 at 7:05 pm
At the end of the day, all the whining about Winston staying or going is really pointless. He will make between $8M and $27M next year whereever he is so he’s not exactly going to starve. The biggest concern is getting Ws to be more than Ls, get to the playoffs, get fans back into the stadium, and the some buzz in this town again for the Bucs. Whether you think Winston is or is not in the solution set it is clear the Bucs have a lot of work to do.
December 31st, 2019 at 7:12 pm
Mr Reality I doubt that. Defientally see the crowd showing up if the team wins. I bet the stadium would of been packed if…just say… The Texans game had playoff implications.
But debate is all we can do. The team hasn’t truely been competitive in 2 decades(rounded up). There’s really no telling how the fans would respond to a winning franchise.
Not me though. I’m not no fairwheter fan. Never will be. Went to Sundays game and there’s plenty of fans that will be there just like me come hell of high water. Shame it’s not more of us but I did my part and brought my son to his first game and taught him how to be a loyal fan so add 1 to the hardcore’s.
December 31st, 2019 at 7:22 pm
JimmyJack
A New Year’s toast to you, sir……Defense Rules 87 & all the other truly loyal Buc fans….
I’m hoisting a single malt and taking a nice draw off my Monte Cristo right now!!!
December 31st, 2019 at 7:24 pm
@Ndog agree with your assessment/s. In addition….
Winston hid a lot of sins with his running (250 yrds this year). He took some unnecessary sacks, yet also had sacks where he had no chance. He got up every play and never laid blame. and endured every down. Given his accuracy throwing outside pocket…..geez, you woulda thunk more calls for those types of plays….go figure.
I posted earlier in another thread, that winston/bucs parting ways would be best for success of both parties. It will be interesting to see who (QB) Bruce chooses for next year (if not Jameis) and how successful that QB will be with throwing down the field. I think ME13 and Godwin will be challenged to have duo 1000 yd seasons next year, with a new QB. However, if Bucs make playoffs, neither will complain (openly).
the best Jameis year was when RB Martin had a successful year….go figure @Ndog…such a mystery, huh?
I lean to Bruce trying to sign Jameis to a low 1 yr PROVE IT contract, and Jameis will walk….where? Who knows…
I think fans got spoiled,, and expect the same “positive Jameis results” with a new QB, absent of his turnovers. I am not a believer in that position.
Will be an interesting off-season with rumors and media-negotiating on both sides…..like Terrell said, “getcha popcorn ready…”
December 31st, 2019 at 7:26 pm
RB prospect coming on at 7:30 est…..Zack Moss, Utah….possibly a 3rd or 4th rounder.
December 31st, 2019 at 7:28 pm
JimmyJack were you in the upper deck on the West side?
December 31st, 2019 at 7:42 pm
And exactly what happens when Jameis has to look over his shoulder? Well we all know the answer to that already. Been there done that.
December 31st, 2019 at 7:43 pm
comment is not a spam.
December 31st, 2019 at 7:52 pm
Ndog
I don’t believe I’ve ever responded to you…..I certainly admire your rabid support for JW…..and I also have been a supporter…..
For me, it’s all about the money……we desperately need to be able to sign our other players and I’m fearful that Jameis & his team could price himself out of the market….I hope not.
I am on record as to favoring the non-exclusive franchise tag and let him test the market & let the chips fall where they may.
I root for Jameis’ success always….and hope this all works out.
December 31st, 2019 at 7:56 pm
Mr Reality, by the time of the Bucs pick the best QBs, in my opinion, will be Jordan Love, Justin Fields, Jake Fromm and Jalen Hurts.
All would work in this offense. Love and Hurts are the most mobile and all have good accuracy and are good field Generals.
If the Bucs do that, the second round should be an OT, third round is an RB, maybe CJ Vernier from Oregon.
December 31st, 2019 at 8:18 pm
Couldn’t have said it better myself Sage!!! Draft a QB & have #3 on notice…Maybe they can take the buck out of the jitterbug…
December 31st, 2019 at 8:21 pm
AWESOME ARTICLE IRA. One of the best if not The best since you have been here.
All points touched on with your stamp on which ones should happen with outliers. Awesome work
December 31st, 2019 at 8:23 pm
Also……….NDog you are Really trying to surpass T m a x as the biggest idiot on these threads.
December 31st, 2019 at 8:43 pm
He’s gonna be back, Dotson basically just said it outright. Also that the locker room has his back. If this is the case the only thing standing in the way is the financials. I take it this is why Arians is not talking him up right now, he knows we need as much $$ as possible to build this team around Jameis.
Jameis in 2020! Home field advantage in the Super Bowl!
Hey a guy can dream.
December 31st, 2019 at 8:44 pm
You can love or hate him …but I will say this FAMOUS is the best chance for the BUCS to win 10 games in 2020!! KEEP GRINDING FAMOUS!!
December 31st, 2019 at 8:49 pm
Sage: New plan; Give JayMiss his walking papers, build around the D, draft/sign a veteran RB who can play consistently at the NFL level and draft/ Sign a FE QB who won’t give up the farm on a regular basis.
This JayMiss BS has to stop.
Peace, out
December 31st, 2019 at 8:52 pm
Alaskan Snowman.
Yes and no.
Wins are good, sure. But people pay money to come and see players that they like play. If you want fans to come, you have to put players on the field that the fans want to see play.
Winston is the most Polarizing player the Bucs have ever had. He is one of the big reasons that Ray Jay is less than half full. The vast majority of fans do not want him here and will not pay their hard earned money to come and watch him play.
The Glazers are business people, not football people. You can bet the poor attendance and dwindling fan base is a big concern to them. Not to mention keeping their corporate sponsors and advertisers. You can bet this will all factor into their Winston decision.
December 31st, 2019 at 8:56 pm
You should instill confidence in your Qb and BA is always going to tell his Qb to let it fly. I don’t think there will be much of a change. BA knows Qbs in his system throw a bunch of picks their 1st year and they’ll go down the following. I can see him changing his tone to the media regarding his Qb but that’s about it.
Re: The draft. I was hoping UT Rb Zack Moss would last til the Bucs pick in the 2nd round but after his game tonight I seems unlikely.
December 31st, 2019 at 9:02 pm
Brian I’m not sure if you can safely say the vast majority of fans don’t want him back or how you’d measure that even. If I’m not mistaken a few weeks ago about 2/3 of fans wanted him back next year. I don’t think two weeks changed a third of voters.
Winston has grown into an exceptional person and a large positive for the community. Glazers have understanding through first hand knowledge of Jameis’ effort to better himself as a person and his tireless work ethic as a player.
I don’t have any insider info and am not pretending to know more but everything I said is facts. I think Jameis’ rep in the building is 10x stronger than it is with the fans and that is my only opinion in this statement.
December 31st, 2019 at 9:04 pm
Mad max- I just saw your comment regarding Rb Moss. All the recent mocks have him going top two rounds. I hope you’re right but just curious where have you seen him going in round 3/4?
December 31st, 2019 at 9:26 pm
I think the one angle that we haven’t really heard is from the perspective of the team. How many games did Jameis throw a pick in the first series of the game? That can decimate the confidence of the team. Amazingly, the team played hard all year!
BA has made it clear the defense is the priority. If the budget for Jameis doesn’t allow for the signing of the defensive FA’s, I could see them letting Jameis go just from a business perspective. We can argue stats all day long, but if it’s a choice between keeping the defensive FA’s on the team or keeping Jameis, I think Jameis will be the odd man out.
Happy New Years everyone!!
December 31st, 2019 at 9:33 pm
Excuse me, the Oregon running back id C.J Verdell. I miss spelled it, but watch him in the Rose Bowl anyway. You will go wow somewhere during the game.
December 31st, 2019 at 9:45 pm
Ok SB you’ve yet to prove any of the FACTS I posted as wrong but I guess you feel how you feel and that’s ok, somebody has got to be wrong. And congratulations that somebody is YOU 🎉!!!!!!
December 31st, 2019 at 9:50 pm
I want them to sign him to a long contract, and I have the reason possible.
Can you imagine the reaction here?! LOL
But seriously, I AM predicting they offer Winston a contract. Arians admitted it.
He said ‘contract negotiations ‘.
If they plan to negotiate, that means they want to re-sign him.
But, of course, a lot of people here are in denial.
December 31st, 2019 at 10:05 pm
Stan, Ive seen 3rd a lot more than 2nd on Moss.
December 31st, 2019 at 10:08 pm
Happy New Years BUCS FANS!!!!!!
December 31st, 2019 at 10:14 pm
Just from entertainment alone JW makes good top dollar. I never watch so many Bucs games since JW been here since the glory days JW brings attention. Since he was drafted.
Talk crap all you want but you will be watching the games because of JW. No one else.
Jw has everyone on “Eval mode” and the fans become head coach gurus all of sudden. Telling everyone how pass supposed to be thrown.
December 31st, 2019 at 10:14 pm
Happy New Year as well from Vegas.
December 31st, 2019 at 10:18 pm
Happy new year from AK! I still got to wait almost six hours to pop this bottle.
December 31st, 2019 at 10:18 pm
Been saying it > If Winston can throw under 10 picks…….I’m all all all in…
December 31st, 2019 at 10:20 pm
Buccaneer Bonzai I am with you bro, but to be 100% honest I want either a 4/5 year deal or for them to just let him walk. Franchise Tag would be the worst deal in my opinion. Two reasons, one it just keeps the uncertainty alive and two from a cost perspective he is going to nothing but get more expensive which does nothing but hurt the team which is exactly why I wanted them to try sign him look term last year. But of course what we want makes no difference what will be will be and hopefully it all works out for us to be better. Go Bucs!!!
December 31st, 2019 at 10:22 pm
Montana here Alaskan. Hour ahead of you. HNY!
December 31st, 2019 at 10:27 pm
HAPPY NEW YEAR…..SB…..
December 31st, 2019 at 10:33 pm
sunshine Says:
December 31st, 2019 at 4:16 pm
With the excellent bucs receivers an average qb will take the team to the playoffs!
_______________________
Sorry @Sunshine…..LMAO …plethora of ways to respond. Will just say….NOT reality! Not a given that having great receivers on the roster equals incredible results.
December 31st, 2019 at 10:42 pm
Taking Winston out. I want my bucs to be better. Definitely Winston 3/4 yr contract. Best QB we had. But I want the roster to improve. Yes I like the cb but how can you go with a question mark this year at Safety. I want this off-season to address all position. Yes including punter. Competition all across.
December 31st, 2019 at 11:24 pm
Ndog wants to screw up the franchise for 4 or 5 years with a deal for Winston. What has Jameis done to warrant that kind of a deal? And saying that he’s the best QB in franchise history is just the dumbest argument I’ve ever heard considering how bad this franchise has been. Honestly, I’d love to see this great market for a guy who just threw 30 picks. Let’s not forget all the off field issues. It’s fantasy to think any team would give him a better deal than the Bears gave Glennon a couple of years ago.
January 1st, 2020 at 1:07 am
Let Winston go.
January 1st, 2020 at 5:18 am
They might be able to get him to cut the turnovers down but after 5 years do you really believe that?
The problem I see with Winston is he was handed the keys, with no competition and knew he wasn’t going to get benched,and there you go. They got rid of Fritzpatrick so he wasn’t looking over his shoulder,what do you think will happen if they draft someone?
Is he really that fragile or spoiled ?
After 5 years of nothing, I say the heck with it,cut him,he hasn’t done us any favors,besides I am tired of hearing, I know I have to do better,yada,yada,yada
January 1st, 2020 at 6:35 am
Craig, I think Jordan Love will be on the board for sure maybe even into the 2nd round. I could go with that for sure, in either round.
January 1st, 2020 at 7:01 am
Bring back Fitz and let JW go. Keep The D LINE. Get Killer safety and corner. Replace Dotson. Find a kicker. Find a killer fullback. Fitz could win 10 games with this team.
January 1st, 2020 at 8:32 am
If Brees doesn’t retire, the Bucs offer the $30m to Teddy along with the starting position and problem is solved. There are two potential game changing DL in the draft; Brown and Kinlaw. Brown will be gone by the time the Bucs pick, but there is a chance Kinlaw is there. The top flight QB’s are gone. OL is deep. Try and sign Teddy, hope Kinlaw is there and then draft OL heavy the rest of the draft with one second tier/sleeper RB pick mixed in during round 2 or 3. Do that and you have money to sign Shaq and JPP. Let Suh and Demar go.
January 1st, 2020 at 12:00 pm
Bring in Bridgewater or Nick Foles or some veteran of their caliber. I’m ok to sign Winston at a much lower rate to be the backup. He would be a very good backup but Starter, no way.
Even Arians said that ‘if we can win with Jameis we can win with another QB’. That’s an admission that we have the best WR corp in the league with a good enough Oline and an up & coming defense. Only things really missing is a little upgrade on Oline as HB Jones really improved this year running and catch & run in screen plays.
With this defense a QB that can throw 25 TDs and under 15 Interceptions we should be a 9 or 10 win team next season. Just not with a QB who still overthrows too many deep balls, stares down too often and forces too many tight windows.
For those who blame WR running wrong routes, tipped balls, dropped passes as the problem with the Interceptions then ask yourself is Tampa Bay the only team that has all these problems? No way, they all deal with this but the Playoff QBs have these kind of Picks
R. Wilson 5
Brady 8
Wentz 7
Mahomes 5
Rodgers 4
Garopollo 13
Watson 12
Cousins 6
L. Jackson 6
J. Allen 9
Brees 4
Tannehill 6
Notice how far apart the Bucs QB is. There really is no comparison. The 33 TDs cannot possibly make up for 30 Picks.
January 1st, 2020 at 1:33 pm
I’m fine with drafting a developmental QB in rounds 4 and later. UVA’s Bryce Perkins has a great tool set and temperament for a starting QB. He’s been UVA’s entire offense the past two seasons. They have had nothing around him, bad scheme, bad line, no running game, average receivers. He’s impressive and getting almost no hype.
January 1st, 2020 at 3:11 pm
NPUPPY!!! I’ll take you on against your “facts”. You just stopped responding to me bc you don’t want non of this smoke! I’ll take your facts on and debate you.
January 1st, 2020 at 8:05 pm
Completely unrealistic but can you imagine Gardner Minshew with Bruce Arians??? Not afraid to pull the trigger and a helluva lot more careful with the football (except for fumbles). Plus they’d probably drink after every game and game plan together while taking shots of tequila.