Bruce Arians Says Jameis Needs “A Legitimate Team”
August 26th, 2019
Bucco Bruce Arians has delivered a solid amount of hyperbole for fans and media since taking over Tampa Bay.
And he was slinging it high and hard last week during an interview with WFLA-TV.
Joe’s really having trouble digesting it at this point. Man, it will be so darn wonderful when real games arrive.
Arians spoke about America’s Quarterback, Jameis Winston, on the Bucs-Browns broadcast and suggested Jameis has been held back because he has never played on a solid football team and has been asked too often to throw 45-plus times a game.
“I think the proof’s still in the pudding for [Jameis] as far as being a legitimate team with a defense a running game, not playing from behind, having to throw the ball 45 to 50 times to win a game,” Arians said. “And when you’re doing that you’re saying, ‘You got to win the game.’ No, just play quarterback. Let’s put a team around you, just let you play quarterback.”
Joe’s not sure why Arians puts this stuff out there. Does he really believe it?
Jameis has attempted 40 passes or more in 13 of his 54 starts (24 percent) while Carson Palmer, Arians’ revered starter in Arizona, hurled 40 or more passes 24 times in 60 regular-season starts (40 percent) during his time in Arizona. Palmer was 10-13-1 in those games. Jameis was 2-10.
Are we to believe a legitimate team doesn’t ask its quarterback to carry the offense several times a year? C’mon, Coach.
Patrick Mahomes threw 40 or more times in 25 percent of his starts last year. Matt Ryan was slingin’ it in 37 percent of games. Dak Prescott even won two games last year passing 54 and 44 times, respectively. Arians’ old friend Ben Roethlisberger, Joe Flacco and Andrew Luck each averaged 40 passes or more per game last year, and all their teams had winning records.
Yes, a better Bucs team around Jameis should help Jameis. But let’s stop pretending he’s not going to have to perform under a lot of pressure and carry the team at times for the Bucs to have a winning season.
August 26th, 2019 at 12:30 pm
Are we to believe a legitimate team doesn’t ask its quarterback to carry the offense several times a year?
Pretty sure Bucco Bruce isn’t absolving Jameis of any responsibility to put the team on his back. All QBs Joe listed has superstar power in other spots, most of which having a running game of some relevance. For the majority of Jameis’ career up til this point there has been ZERO run game, back to back years of worst defenses, and that O line. Sure Jameis can be better but I am 100% with Bruce on this one. Let’s see how he plays with an actual team around him.
August 26th, 2019 at 12:31 pm
To me, he’s pointing the finger at Licht.
August 26th, 2019 at 12:31 pm
It’s refreshing to have a legitimate head coach again. Yeah it’s a team effort. Arians has been consistent in addressing all sides of the team. Keep that accountability sheet going coach!
August 26th, 2019 at 12:32 pm
Yes, but every time Jameis throws for 40+ times a game, we’re trying to come from behind. Often when other QBs are throwing 40+ times a game, they’re trying to score points to bury the other team. We don’t do that. We’re up 7, we run, run, incomplete, punt.
August 26th, 2019 at 12:32 pm
We need damn players, jamies is too nice to yell at his line for not blocking, tom brady would rip hisnlime for a missed block same with rodgers. Jamies needs to put his big boy pants on and scold some people. Our line just doesnt care.
We have like 6 real players on our team.
Evans , jpp, buchanon, minter, whitehead, jamies, davis, godwin.
Oj howard is not a good football player. Marpet is not a good football player, donavan is not a good football player. These are guys who were recruited cause theyre size and do what theyre told.
August 26th, 2019 at 12:33 pm
He’s not an elite QB. I think we all need to accept that. He’s like Dilfer. Can when when he has a HOF defense.
August 26th, 2019 at 12:34 pm
I’ve been telling yall MORONS this for years…. yall will see for yourself this year when we are 10-6.
Go Bucs!!
August 26th, 2019 at 12:36 pm
Joe. All of the teams and qbs you named all had at least a decent defense and the threat of a running game.
August 26th, 2019 at 12:38 pm
Jay-Miss needs a legitimate team and the team needs a legitimate QB. Works both ways.
I kid…
August 26th, 2019 at 12:40 pm
Bruce is right. Jameis has never had a running game, a defense, or a kicking game the entire times he’s been here. It was promising to see the defense play so well on Friday night. If we can get Dare Ogunbowale to run the ball like he has this preseason we might win some games. Here’s hoping.
August 26th, 2019 at 12:45 pm
He said 45 not 40 but nevertheless
Check out Brain Baldinger’s twitter page and film breakdown it’s an absolute travesty.
Carry a team? There is no team just 4-5 guys who have to win and guys like Demar Dotson with their heads so far up their arses it’s pathetic.
August 26th, 2019 at 12:46 pm
This is a unmitigated disaster. The rest of the team is being blamed for Winston’s failures.
August 26th, 2019 at 12:47 pm
Great coaching…..not. Ridiculous. Unbelievable. Amateurish.
August 26th, 2019 at 12:48 pm
Stoned Buc
Keep smoking my friend. It’s helps to get the stupid takes flowing.
August 26th, 2019 at 12:50 pm
We have like 6 real players on our team.
Evans , jpp, buchanon, minter, whitehead, jamies, davis, godwin.
DING DING DING DING DING.
Be careful the delusional optimists are allergic to the truth
August 26th, 2019 at 12:56 pm
Winston’s not as good as I thought he’d be coming out of college but I do agree with Arians. That team is built in a way that requires the QB to carry the team if they’re going to have any real shot of a playoff run.
Comparison of the QB/RB combos in Joe’s examples:
Carson Palmer/David Johnson
Pat Mahomes/Kareem Hunt
Matt Ryan/Devonte Freeman
Big Ben/Levone Bell/ James O’Connor
Dak/Zeke Elliott
Winson/Peyton Barber
August 26th, 2019 at 1:00 pm
I still see Jameis running for his life most of the season.
Run Jameis run!
August 26th, 2019 at 1:02 pm
Oh wait, who let ‘Reasonable Joe’ out of his dungeon?
August 26th, 2019 at 1:10 pm
Ok Arians. Fix it. A QB can throw 40 passes as long he’s not slinging it or “trying “ to make plays. Throw the ball to move the chains. Hit the big play when it’s there. Brady lives off the 5-10 yds pass 30 passes plus. But he has a good run game and defense.
August 26th, 2019 at 1:13 pm
He is getting up there in age. Dementia may be setting in. Starting to look like he looked at zero film from JW‘s previous four years, he is the reason why the Tampa Bay buccaneers were behind in games he is the reason why we have a bad team. His turnovers put the defense on the field all of the time.!
August 26th, 2019 at 1:15 pm
See DR,
Happy Jamies pic for a happier article.
August 26th, 2019 at 1:15 pm
Jameis can’t carry a team, never has and never will
Only few qbs can but those guys are smart accurate and protect the ball amd Jameis is none of those things
August 26th, 2019 at 1:17 pm
If eveything was as bad as people say they would not have been going up and down between the 20’s. Best on 3rd down and all the rest of the usless stats. They could not score . Counted on the kicker and put the defense right back on the field. Keep looking at the 1 score games. The person with picks, fumbles and the best receivers that could not get the ball in the end zone even when the defense did their job was a major contribution to a 5-11 season.
August 26th, 2019 at 1:17 pm
Jameis record when attempting 35+ times a game is horrendous. LESS Jameis =more wins.
August 26th, 2019 at 1:17 pm
Joe hoe.many of palmers passes were 2 yard dump off screens to the rbs? Although those are still technically considered passes , Jameis was slinging it down field constantly and.you even pointed out recently that the bucs are dead last in pass attempts to rbs
The screen play is the bread and butter of so many top offenses. Take that one play out of all of their playbooks and its a HUGE difference.
August 26th, 2019 at 1:17 pm
A legit team around him. Last time that happened he went undefeated and won a National Championship. Similar results should be expected now since this is the first time in his NFL career he can say he has a legit team and coaching staff around.
August 26th, 2019 at 1:18 pm
Winston better play lights out, I don’t know the contractual obligations and/or legalities but I smell a shot at Luck next year if Jaboo doesn’t perform up to snuff. BA coaches Luck in Luck’s rookie season. A year off to heal and miss the game, isn’t unheard of!
August 26th, 2019 at 1:27 pm
It’s not how many passes you throw that matters…..it’s where they end up.
That being said…..it would be nice if we had a running game, defense & ST for a change….
August 26th, 2019 at 1:29 pm
“At least I can pass block”
Klueless Koetter
August 26th, 2019 at 1:33 pm
No defense, no offensive line, no kicking game, no running game….what’s a QB to do?
BTW, Look at the Browns game, our O-line is a total disgrace and Gump gets a contract extension. Yeah let’s blame Jameis…..
August 26th, 2019 at 1:41 pm
Arians is not “blaming Jamies”…but he IS trashing his team. I’m sure they appreciate that mightily. The over/under on wins just went down by one.
August 26th, 2019 at 1:44 pm
Joe, several times a year yes. I assume you did watch our defense last year? For us to win those games Jameis was asked to do too much in pretty much EVERY GAME. I totally agree with Arians take. Basically put a decent defense and running game on the field and then tell Jameis it wont be like last year. Koetter liked his buddy Mike Smith too much to understand that it was his fault the Bucs stank up the NFL.
August 26th, 2019 at 1:51 pm
I might add that JW’s criminal defense team has performed far better than his Buccaneers defensive teammates. He will also be teaming with the criminal defense team much longer than he will with the Bucs.
August 26th, 2019 at 1:52 pm
Joe
I’m asking for a friend.
How many times has Dak Prescott or Rusell Wilson had to throw 40 + times in a game over the past three seasons?
August 26th, 2019 at 1:58 pm
I rather have a average Qb on a ultimate team than ultimate Qb on a average team
August 26th, 2019 at 2:00 pm
Every QB will have better production with a better team around him.
When BA says “so JW can just play QB” he’s not wrong, but to me that translates to “ Game manager”— i.e. Trent Dilfer.
That’s all well and good, although did we really use an overall#1 pick on a QB with “incredible football IQ”, most NFL ready in years…to hope that he “might” turn out to be be only as proficient as Dilfer, if he has a great team around him, if you get my point.
People here say JW is gonna do things never seen before…superstar…his stats, etc.
Then I watch Mahomes play, and I think..Now that’s real talent. Great running game or no, that kid can put a football in a keyhole from 65 yards. All I see with JW is a ham n egger, who may just be a legend in his own mind.
August 26th, 2019 at 2:08 pm
*ENOUGH* with this “Jameis hasn’t had a running game his entire career!”
BULLCRAP.
In his first season, Doug Martin rushing for 1400+ YARDS, 2nd in the NFL, and Jameis could only lead the team to a whopping SIX WINS.
Six wins with a back rushing for over 1,400+ yards. SIX. WINS.
So let’s stop using the running game as an excuse for Winston. Things go both ways… if Defense aren’t afraid of the QB, they’ll shutdown the run game and force him to beat them. That happens as well.
Winston’s terrible decision making and holding the ball too long has ZERO to do with the running game OR Defense OR kicking game.
August 26th, 2019 at 2:09 pm
Slugg im guessing you just too slow to see whats really going on?
🐌
August 26th, 2019 at 2:11 pm
NEWSFLASH: The NFL is now predominantly a PASSING LEAGUE.
Of course, you’re going to have to be able to rely on your QB to pass a lot and be successful or you’ll lose.
#nomoreexcusesforjameis
August 26th, 2019 at 2:15 pm
A little bit ago this site featured the #WEAPONS4WINSTON campaign, the idea being that with enough good receivers, Winston would be unstoppable. What happened? Where’d all those posters go? Complete memory loss??
August 26th, 2019 at 2:17 pm
So, sometimes I post from different IP addresses because I travel. So Joes that do moderation should understand.
Regarding Arians comments – excellent. A leader makes the whole team accountable. Right now, they have Jameis going through a mechanics makeover (remember that?!), a new offensive system to leaden, a decision making makeover, “everyone out” on pass plays leaving the OL naked and without help (and in the case of the Browns, against 2 or 3 pro bowl caliber studs) — so, negative nancies, consider this.
Jameis threw zero picks and fumbled zero times besides being under duress. It’s games like this that Arians can use to teach him to anticipate the pressure quicker and convert his thinking to checking down as the primary. Once he does, the defense will start camping someone there which lessens the pressure.
The other thing – Arians has the equivalent of a PhD in psychology, and is way smarter than most of those reading and typing about him. I give these comical naysayers who pontificate hate and doom about as much credibility as he would.
August 26th, 2019 at 2:18 pm
Man I can wait too see this perfect qb all these MEGAFANS keep talking about. He doesn’t throw ints and every pass is a 60 yard bomb for a TD.
August 26th, 2019 at 2:19 pm
@Ocala Check this out buddy . Dak And Russ have a lot less interceptions with more attempts .
http://pfref.com/tiny/0Nweb
August 26th, 2019 at 2:20 pm
StonedBuc must have better ish than I do out here in Cali….
LOFL at “OJ Howard not being a good player”
August 26th, 2019 at 2:22 pm
This new QBs is going to outplay Brady and Brees as a rookie, start as a pro bowler every year and of course first ballot hof. I’m sure he’ll have golden blonde hair and a smile that lites up the world at night.
He won’t need a running game, defense or oline either. He’ll just be a younger faster smarter perfect Ryan Fitzpatrick with a beard and an a r 15.
August 26th, 2019 at 2:23 pm
@Ocala . Click on my username and it will link to a comparison between Dak , Jameis , and Russ over the last three years
August 26th, 2019 at 2:25 pm
Does it concern anyone else that Arians’ system leaves his quarterbacks out to dry injury-wise? Luck played his formative years in Arians’ system and his body was never the same. The whole reason BA was fired from Pittsburgh was because he was getting Ben too beat up. And now the other nite Jameis was running for his life.
August 26th, 2019 at 2:28 pm
If this is truly the case, then Arians doesnt trust Winston to not throw winnable games away either.
Winston is his own worst enemy. More volume equals more opportunities to make dumb decisions.
August 26th, 2019 at 2:36 pm
People forget that there are a lot guys in Jameis situation.
From 2012 on, you have the following first round QB picks. How many have made it?
2012 Luck, Griffin, Tannehill, Weeden: You think the one sure “made it” guy would be Luck. With him out, you have 0-4 with a couple guys still around as back ups.
2013 Manuel meh
2014 Bortles, Manziel, Bridgewater two guys trying to make teams as backups.
2115 Winston, Mariota Both might yet make it; both might yet fail. Neither has set the world on fire.
2016 Goff, Wentz. Both have had a good year or two playing for really good teams. Odds pretty good that they’ll be successful long term, but long term viability is not a sure thing, not even an overwhelming favorite for either guy.
2017 Trubisky, Mahomes, Watson: All three had a single good year, Mahomes a great year. Still, none is a sure thing. We’ve seen dual threat quarterbacks like Kapernick, Griffen, Bridgewater have a single great year, and then get hurt or just figured out or exposed. Still, you’d have to say right now that all three are odds on to make it over the long haul. An unbiased expectation of one guy going to the hall, one not making it as a starter and one being a mid-level NFL QB for 10 years or so, but never being great is probably pretty close to right.
2018 Mayfield, Darnold, Allen, Rosen, Jackson: All five look to be starters, but none are locks for the long term. Mayfield and Darnold did enough to get their supporters excited, but their teams were 11-20-1. Rosen was sent packing, but may start for a team that’s already planning to lose. Jackson started a few games for a winning team, but it had a great defense.
The point is that there are very few sure things out of seven drafts of more than 20 quarterbacks, few are sure things. Even if you throw in Prescott, Garoppola and Carr who have turned out to be the only current multiyear starters out of the 30 or so QBs drafted in rounds 2-4, somewhere around 80% still have to prove it. Maybe only two or three guys project as first tier starters into their second contract and less than 20% figure to be average or better NFL QBs in their ninth/tenth year.
August 26th, 2019 at 2:37 pm
I don’t think Winston has what it takes to win in the NFL but I’m giving him the benefit of the doubt.
This will be his first season in a non-Koetter offense.
Also, please pay plenty of attention to the Falcons running game this season. It will suck much like it did here and in Koetter’s first stint as OC for Atlanta.
August 26th, 2019 at 2:41 pm
#worstgminfootball
August 26th, 2019 at 2:46 pm
I posted this fun fact late, on another thread. I think most folks missed it. I just may drop it on every article about #3.
Fun Fact: Reining MVP, QB Patrick Mahomes consumes little more than 2% of his teams’ salary cap.
August 26th, 2019 at 2:49 pm
BBB
Very true…for a very short time remaining…
August 26th, 2019 at 3:08 pm
Too many excuses. Way too many excuses. Any QB’s value to a team should stand on its’ own merit. This thing aboutWhat I keep hearing is ‘give Jameis the best receivers in the NFL, the best running game, the best OLine, the best defense, the best S/Ts and the Bucs will be a winner’. That’s bizarre. But that’s essentially the argument that’s being made in Jameis’ defense. Heck, give ANY team those things, even if they have just an average QB, and odds are excellent that they’ll be a winning team.
Reality is that no team is perfect. The NFL salary Cap took care of that. Overspend in one or two areas and you’ll have ‘holes’ in other areas. Some teams are simply better than others at managing their resources. New England impresses me in that area; New York Jets and Arizona Cardinals don’t. And certainly neither do the Bucs. The results year-after-year speak for themselves.
Jameis has had exceptionally good receivers (and very costly ones). His OLine has historically done a decent job of pass protection (although far from perfect). The results speak for themselves … LOTS of passing yards but crummy defense & marginal running game. Surprise, surprise; that’s NOT where we put our money.
So yes, I agree with BA. Jameis NEEDS a legitimate team around him. But at the same time that ‘legitimate team’ may not NEED a $30-$35 mil Jameis to run it. Maybe a $20 mil ‘Brad Johnson’ will get more than acceptable results. Elite QBs making top salaries should be expected to ‘compensate’ (via their play) for some of the ‘holes’ that will inevitably result when their team has to operate under the current salary Cap rules to pay their elite salaries. Jameis hasn’t shown me that … yet. Still waiting to see what 2019 brings however … and HOPING for the best.
August 26th, 2019 at 3:35 pm
Usually we’re playing from behind because Jameis keeps turning the ball over.
Most of the NFL doesn’t have a good defense. And run games are less common as well.
Jameis has no excuses this year
August 26th, 2019 at 4:05 pm
Smoothbayrlder-
Your link makes Arians ‘ point-
Both Seahawks and Cowboys have effective run game, defense and special teams- result is better qb play
August 26th, 2019 at 4:07 pm
Carson Palmer also played with good defenses and had a running back in David Johnson who could run, catch, and block. Name me the Bucs back who can do all three.
Patrick Mahomes had Kareem Hunt for most of the season. Hunt could run, catch, and block. The Chiefs had a good offensive line and the best QB coach in the league in Andy Reid. Keep in mind Reid got Kevin Kolb paid.
My point is those QBs didn’t have to throw 40 passes downfield. They could dump it off to backs. Which Bucs back can take a checkdown and get you 12 yards? Screens and quicker passes would help the Bucs as well.
Don’t forget Arians changed the roster when he got to Arizona. This time around, he kept many of the bad players like Gholston, Beau Allen, Benenoch, etc.
August 26th, 2019 at 4:07 pm
To ALL she idiot haters/racists/losers. Mutually exclusive?? 😂 Bruce just said GO TO BED!!! Every single game Carson Wentz is asked to throw 35 times the Eagles look like trash. When philly put more on legarrette Corey clement and Ajayi to lead the team. Well, we know. Baker is ATROCIOUS anything over 30 attempts book it a “L”. The Browns go as Nick Chubb goes…And NO further. Do you idiots understand yet? The FUNNY thing is 90% of you, media hating, klansmen follow EVERYTHING less credible sports writers “pen”. Peter King knows as much about football as my 7-year-old autistic son. About time someone spoke some truth about this young franchise qbs career. TRASH teams. Good skill players, minus any journeyman rb hes had, mean NOTHING if you have no line, defense, or run game. Tom Brady is great because Bill Belichick gives him 5 more chances a game, dummies. Learn some football and come back. This debate is officially OVER. The QB guru has SPOKEN. 😂😂👍🏼👍🏼😁😁😁😁😁😁😁😆
August 26th, 2019 at 4:24 pm
I’am not speaking for coach or pretending to be in his mind but what I think he attempting to say is even if the QB is asked to throw a large number of passes or carry the team….. The QB is still gonna need the help of his defense and special team’s player (FG kicker) to win ball games…..I think we can all agree that the objective of the offense is to Score points and the defense is to prevent the opposing team from scoring…..In Winston’s case, since being a Bucs, he has only once had a defense that was ranked in the top 10 and that was his rookie year as a Bucs…. The team went 9 -7 and barely missed the playoffs…..As for the offense his rookie year, the only legitimate weapon he had was Evans….Sure Vince Jackson was there but he was hurt more often than not…….The muscle hamster for the most part was unreliable….As far as those other QBs and stats Joe mentioned, they had the one thing Winston has not had – and that is a good team surrounding him….As we know, the QB can only do so much.
August 26th, 2019 at 5:00 pm
@Boombang — the 9-7 season was in 2016, Winston’s second year. Important if you’re making supportive comments (which I agree with) to have your facts straight.
August 26th, 2019 at 5:05 pm
IF WINSTON ISN’T IN THE HALL OF FAME YOU’RE ALL RACISTS!!!
August 26th, 2019 at 5:09 pm
Ironically, Patrick Mahomes watched the Super Bowl from his couch because his defense couldn’t stop Brady. Name me the last Super Bowl winning QB who’s team was awful in rushing and total defense.
August 26th, 2019 at 5:11 pm
Arians is full of ish since he got here. They are doing everything to try to keep the pressure off of JW. Dude crumbles like a cookie.
August 26th, 2019 at 5:34 pm
This is a silly story, Joe. It’s obvious to any knowledgeable football fan that these Buc teams since Jameis was drafted were not balanced teams and put too much on a young QB’s shoulders. I don’t think any QB would have been successful winning in the systems the Bucs put out there. No running game and a horrible defense? Does anyone really think a QB can win under those circumstances? I think you called last year’s D “the worst defense in NFL history”. 5-11 is almost a victory when you think about it! BA is developing a team. Let’s see how it pans out…
August 26th, 2019 at 5:51 pm
Bucsbandit,
Triggered.
August 26th, 2019 at 6:03 pm
Tsmitty,
Your comments suggest you didn’t read the article. Winston has attempted 40+ passes in only 13 games. Which is lower overall and percentage of the other QB’s you reference.
The issue with throwing down field vs a check down is mostly on Winston himself. He decides where he’s going with the ball. Often its an aggressive throw, down field into coverage, and in this category He leads the league.
Conversely, He’s not accurate on deep balls. In fact, 2018 saw winston finishing 35th of 35 eligible QBs in this catagory. Which suggests that an offense that’s philosophy is predicated on a vertical stretch isn’t the best suited for his skill set. Unfortunately, this is what Arians nor Koetter offenses are based on.
BA runs some things differently, but it’s still the same basic approach that Koetter has used the previous 4 seasons.
There’s no argument that an improved defense and every other aspect of the team will have a positive impact on Winston’s winning percentage. That is really is no argument at all, as any qb in the league would be the beneficiary of those things. The more accurate question is , how will an improved….fill in the blanks , ultimately elevate Winston’s play. (Example, if the defense is top 5 in the league, will winston be able to improve on his deep ball accuracy? )
If the only judge of how good a QB is , is win totals. Then its a two way sword.
Currently, He’s terrible. And improved play from all aspects of the game should elevate him, wins wise, into a good if not excellent player. However, it’s impossible to find many fans, certainly none of winston cult, that would agree He’s terrible. My point is, everyone including the cult of winston followers, understand that a QB can be evaluated seperate from his team and the total wins of that team.
That’s why it’s a logic fail to claim Winston is excellent but just needs…xy and z. Most of the intelligent fans or self proclaimed ones often fail to realize this very elementary flaw in reasoning. I’m not suggesting that you are among this group and I mean no disrespect. Merely it’s just a summary on some of the opposing view points.
August 26th, 2019 at 6:04 pm
Correction,
Arians and koetters.
August 26th, 2019 at 6:24 pm
D1,
Don’t try to use FACTS and reasonable logic on these Winston-Lovers. Even, though, any person with a pair of eyes can watch Winston play and tell something is ‘off’ with him, they’ll never admit it.
Many of the Winston homers are FSU fans and just can’t let go of the kid that won them a Nat’l Championship and a Heisman trophy. No matter how much his game doesn’t translate to the NFL, and no matter how glaringly obvious it is that he holds the ball too long, struggles with accuracy, and has terrible footwork (along with bad decision-making), they’ll still LOVE HIM with all their little hearts and will never abandon him.
If Jameis Winston were to throw for 35 INTs this year, they’d still be making excuses for him… bad O-Line… weak running game… inconsistent kickers… and of course that terrible Defense that isn’t even on the field when Winston has the ball.. BUT BUT BUT… yeah.
Every year there’s an excuse for America’s Turnover Machine. Every year they get the warm-fuzzies reminiscing back to the glory Nole days of Winston’s run at FSU.
And every year they wait… like the rest of us… for Winston to fulfill his expectations of what a QB drafted in the 2nd Round would achieve — yet he can’t even do that.
August 26th, 2019 at 6:33 pm
He’ll never have a legit team as long as Lichts the G.M.. I don’t have enough time to list all his draft, and FA busts.
August 26th, 2019 at 6:56 pm
If the bucs pay jameis $30 mil next year or even franchise him, notch another L in the licht is the worst gm in the nfl belt
August 26th, 2019 at 7:41 pm
Jim Says:
“A little bit ago this site featured the #WEAPONS4WINSTON campaign, the idea being that with enough good receivers, Winston would be unstoppable. What happened? Where’d all those posters go? Complete memory loss??”
.
.
They’re still here. Many of us want a decent defense and kicking game, now. The rest just keep hollering RACIST at anyone who dare question their messiah.
August 26th, 2019 at 7:54 pm
DB55 Says:
“This new QB is going to… have golden blonde hair and a smile that lites up the world at night.”
.
.
Here’s one of them right here.
Dude, you’ve been off of this kick for so long, I was actually starting to like you. You don’t seem to understand that 1) all of the JW fanboys aren’t black, and 2) all of his naysayers aren’t white. But keep allowing yourself to be head-shrunk by the MSM. You are a successful student.
August 26th, 2019 at 8:19 pm
Winston has had the worst defense in the NFL since 2015 and only played with a good defense for a 6-game strech in that time. Anyone that doesn’t know what Arians is talking about is fake news.
August 26th, 2019 at 8:20 pm
These type of debates when you mix a career college winner (JW) and a established losing franchise ( Bucs have the poorest win percentage of all sports) ….. You get mixed results.
August 26th, 2019 at 8:25 pm
I like to add that JW haters are funny. They act like the Bucs were a powerhouse of a football team and now since JW is on the team he is dragging us down.
August 26th, 2019 at 8:50 pm
Trade the loser to the Colts for the rights to Luck. Arians Marky beable to talk him out of retirement.
August 26th, 2019 at 8:50 pm
^^^may be able.
August 26th, 2019 at 8:51 pm
LaMarcus,
The comments on a losing franchise is spot on. If you’re going to draft a franchise QB, and the organization believes it did, then it’s incumbent upon the franchise to build a team around him. I mean from coaches to players.
At this point, can anyone honestly claim that the franchise has been successful in building around winston! And from outward appearances, entering into Winston’s 5yr, I still don’t believe the franchise is doing what other more successful franchises typically do when they believe they’ve drafted “The Guy”.
August 26th, 2019 at 8:54 pm
I thought this fan base was dumb but …
Some dude just said oj Howard is not a good football player.
I’m out.
August 26th, 2019 at 8:58 pm
BucsBandit,
Can’t argue with a solid critical analysis.
August 26th, 2019 at 9:12 pm
D1
I agree. From my view it looked like we drafted JW and said ” Save us”.
Licht is a trend guy. He going with any motto that won a team a ring. Like Eagles won and he said ” look at Eagles and their pass rush” and got Jpp and Curry. He was thinking at that time a QB could win a ring and JW draft prospect was through the roof so yea I really believed Licht really thought 1 guy can win rings cuz of the trend was “Franchise Qb wins championships”. Now that’s trend is over and proved wrong so this team needs to built properly
August 26th, 2019 at 9:31 pm
Right now Jameis Winston is on the Jim Plunkett career path. Once he leaves and gets with a real organization with real knowledgeable fans he will prosper just like Plunkett did. That will be fun to see the WDS simpletons absolutely loose it with, why didn’t he do that while he was here?
Can’t wait!
August 26th, 2019 at 10:56 pm
LOL @ Dapostman
If you honestly think Jameis is going to go to another organization and “thrive” then you haven’t been paying attention.
– Another team isn’t going to make him get rid of the ball faster or read defenses faster.
– Another team is not going to improve his accuracy issues, trained into his muscle memory from thousands and thousands of throws from pee wee football to the NFL.
– Another team is not going to improve his fumble issues (from holding the ball too long.)
– Another team isn’t going to cure his horrendous footwork or other coaches in the NFL already would have done that by now.
– Another team is not going to (not easily) coach him to make better decisions because his bad decisions go along with the bad footwork, ball holding, and the way he plays the game.
Winston either lights it up this year or he is going to be riding the pine as a backup for another team for the rest of his career (unless the starter he backs up gets hurt).
August 26th, 2019 at 10:59 pm
@D1 and @Lamarcus
A team with the #1 Overall Pick (and not already having a decent QB) certainly IS looking to the new QB to save them and turn things around.
But let’s not forget something… while our Defense has sucked, and been the cruel recipient of A LOT of unfortunate injuries over the past few years, our Offense has been pretty SOLID.
Yes, our running game hasn’t been that good, but this is a PASSING LEAGUE, after all, and we have put up some big yardage; I believe the most prolific Offense in team history.
So it’s not like they haven’t put weapons around Winston. We have one of the Top 3-4 WR/TE corps in the NFL.
August 26th, 2019 at 10:59 pm
At times, I just really think that Arians likes to hear himself talk
August 26th, 2019 at 11:30 pm
The last thing Arians is going to do at this point is say anything negative about Winston that could rattle his confidence …..even he does have doubts about his ability……and yes, it’s true……You are racist, if you don’t believe Jameis will be in the HOF.
August 27th, 2019 at 12:47 am
BucsBandit,
Yesterday the NFL network had the Falcons vs Bucs 2010 as one the rewind games. Bucs in the throw back unis. As I watched the game I couldn’t help but think how much better that team was than the current or last few years.
I’m talking about talent on the roster and a host of other things.
Why bring up a team from the past? Simple, it’s about how that team was constructed. In comparison, the current GM seems to always fixing last year’s roster. He’s not building a dam, He’s trying to fix all the leaks. Is the best ana alogy I can come up with tonight.
LaMarcus is right, the franchise had long sought after a bona-fide franchise QB. The biggest knock on Gruden, he failed to develop a young QB. Mind you, the man just won a superbowl and that’s good but he can’t develop a young QB seemed to take on biblical importance. As if drafting a franchise QB was in and of itself the most important thing in building a winner.
LaMarcus is not wrong , although he should have incorporated ownership in with lovie smith and licht. The idea that weapons for winston is evidence of the franchise building around winston is also correct. There’s no argument .
What I’m talking about is this. I don’t believe winston was drafted using the proper criteria. If you doubt that then I would merely point you to the reports from people involved in his selection and the comments they made at the time and one in particular from the current gm in Tennessee.
What was never mentioned was a plan on how to structure the team into what scouts identified as winstons strengths. Not the intangibles but what he did successfully on the field and how his skills and traits would translate into the teams game plans.
LaMarcus said in so many words that the pick was made as a magical transformational selection instead of a pick evaluated properly. I agree.
Now back to the weapons for winston idea. Absolutely, that’s an example of building. But imo, it is an example of not building around Winston’s strengths. The strengths he displayed in college that made him the potential #1 pick in the draft. And ultimately the #1 selection.
Weapons that the team selected along with the coach favor a QB with a different skill set . The flaws in Winston’s game, the ones you identify in your comments, are exacerbated in the Koetter /Arians style of play. The flaws exist there’s no doubt about it.
My point is this, Winston’s upside or positive traits and skills could and should have been incorporated into an offense built to take advantage of his positives and minimize his weaknesses. A west coast offense. As he gets experience those weaknesses could be addressed and improved upon and this would allow the offense to expand or morph into a scheme that was built on a solid foundation and grows to incorporate the improved portions of his game. In this respect, the Bucs failed winston.
August 27th, 2019 at 12:56 am
LaMarcus,
Totally agree with you. I address that in the post to BucsBandit if you care to read it.
One point, I believe the team was in a much better position when they selected Freeman. Team wise. But as you stated, He was also drafted as a savior. Now, not at all to the extent of winston and not with the expectations.
But the the idea that the team needed to draft and develop a young QB seemed to be some magical elixir, that would transform the team by merely selecting him.
August 27th, 2019 at 1:56 am
D1,
You make some excellent points.
Licht’s biggest problem is that he’s simply MISSED on too many picks in the Draft. Every team has their misses, but we’ve had more misses than most. You can’t consistently waste draft picks and not have it come back to bite you.
The winning strategy in the NFL is simple… build a strong core of a team, then cycle in draft picks each year that will be playing their first 4-5 years at below average rates per position; and cycle out Vets as they hit their peaks (around age 30-32) instead of rewarding with high salaries.
This is what the Patriots have successfully done for many years. It’s also what the Steelers, Ravens, Saints, GIants, Packers, and others have done.. at least until they mismanage the roster then fall into mediocrity (like the Giants).
The only way lower Tier teams (like the Bucs) can ever dig their way out is by building that core… and that core only comes from 3-4 years of solid drafts. You’re not going to get there by signing FA Vets that will only be on the team a few years. That’s not enough time for the core to grow and strengthen; while each year being followed by a new talent group from the latest draft.
And there are several positions that the Draft becomes too much of a crapshoot for…
Corners, Free Safeties, and D-Linemen.
If I were a GM I’d never draft one of those positions with the exception of D-Line if it were a top 5 pick. Outside of that, I’d sign all those positions in Free Agency and pay proven players.
Look how solid Grimes was for awhile. Revis had some solid play but wasn’t committed to the Bucs. I think corner is one of the hardest positions to scout & draft. That’s why the top rated DBs in the draft often surprise people in which order they go in. Greedy Williams is a great example. He was the top rated corner for months before the draft. Then he wasn’t.
The Bucs, in my opinion, wasted so much draft capital on trying to fix the secondary when they should have just BOUGHT IT instead.
Same goes with the D-Line that has sucked for years. We bought all these 2nd & 3rd Tier free agent D-Linemen (like Allen, Curry, etc.) and should have just went after a couple JPPs.
We also should have used more high picks (2nd and 3rd round) on O-Line than always trying to find some diamond in the rough in late rounds.
Where Licht has made another massive mistake is not grooming a young QB behind Winston that he could have drafted with a 3rd rounder or later pick. I thought Will Grier would have been a solid pick for us in the 3rd round this year; we passed on him and the Panthers drafted him a few picks later. Now if Winston doesn’t work out you have NO ONE.
August 27th, 2019 at 3:04 am
BucsBandit,
I’m going to agree with on the majority of what you state. I disagree with the Revis summation. Revis was coming back from a massive knee injury and the team knew that going in. Do I think it was a good signing, no. But I don’t know how much it was a team ie. Upper management or player issue. Either way it wasn’t a good deal.
You hit on lichts draft record and it’s not a good thing. If I can summarize your opinion, if I am wrong please clarify, but cast it a somewhat different light. I’d say the issue is not the end result , the selection of said player, but a flaw in the process. The process of how ultimately licht wants to construct a team and how potential draft picks are identified and evaluated.
It appears and its bolstered by Lichts own comments that He is overly impressed by a player who attends the senior bowl and shrine bowl. No problem with seeing a player firsthand and coming away impressed. But it seems he places an undue amount of value in these types of end of season affairs. Imo, there’s too many factors that surround these games that make a proper assessment difficult. The results indicate a mixed bag .
The other item is attempting to find value in a selection spot, trading down for extra picks then using those extra picks in a shotgun effect drafting multiple lesser rated players vs getting the best player at the higher selection. If your confident in a player and the process your own organization used to rate said player , use the higher selection and get that player. Quality over quantity. See, DB selections.
Not drafting a quality developmental QB is something I guess licht didn’t learn in new England. They regularly do this and it has been successfull. Also, when the draft class is thick as the theives at a position, RB, He’s not taken advantage of the quality that the numbers present. No excuse.
Again, all these points paints a larger image of an institutional incompetence.
August 27th, 2019 at 10:17 am
D1,
Yep, you hit the nail on the head.
i think Licht, and the Scouting Team he has assembled, seems LAZY.
Just like your point about the end of the season stuff (Senior Bowl, etc.) that seems like a lazy scouting move.
I also thinking trading down doesn’t do much for you unless it’s a 1st Round trade down to acquire more HIGH picks. Outside of the 2nd round the odds go way up that you’ll draft someone that doesn’t pan out.
August 27th, 2019 at 3:02 pm
So long as Arians gets us winning, I don’t care how he does it or what he says.
August 27th, 2019 at 3:07 pm
Anyone who thinks this scouting staff or Jason Licht are lazy are obviously biased. The Glazers would not have extended him if that were the case.
Nor would we have so many top-of-the-line players as we have.
Those saying to start over and complete…well…I’ll be nice and not say it.
August 27th, 2019 at 3:08 pm
Oh, and FYI…dink and dunk equals more passing.