Team Building
July 23rd, 2019
Too much responsibility?
This is one of those stories after you read it, you do a facepalm and devilishly giggle into your hands not believing what you just read and how things could have turned out this way.
Mike Sando, now of The Athletic, is among the most well-connected NFL reporters out there. And the man does his homework. He’s one of the few national NFL stenographers Joe sees at least once or twice a year at One Buc Palace (Joe saw him there this spring during underwear football season).
One Sando specialty is picking a subject and then talking to various NFL types off the record to get their input for the story. Sando’s first piece for The Athletic was ranking quarterbacks into tiers by cobbling together information from NFL suits, coaches and scouts.
Sando, based on his research, has America’s Quarterback, Pro Bowler Jameis Winston, in the Second Tier of quarterbacks. And in writing about Jameis, this paragraph floored Joe.
Winston entered the NFL as a turnover-prone quarterback, the kind who might benefit the most from a strong defense and ground game to facilitate a more conservative approach. Instead, the Buccaneers gave Winston the keys to their high-powered passing offense and asked him to win games for a roster that was lacking on defense, lacking in the run game and among the NFL’s very worst in the kicking game.
So, per one of Sando’s sources, Jameis could have benefited from a run game, a sound defense and a kicking game. Instead, the Bucs gave him none of these (except for his rookie season).
You can’t make this stuff up!
And right there is an example of what many NFL analysts say when a bad team and a bad organization drafts a quarterback: the team is so bad it will drag the quarterback down with them. That is what this smells like if Jameis is unable to get on track this season.
Sadly, the aforementioned problems still remain. Unless proven otherwise, Joe is skeptical this defense will be in the top half of the league (defensive coordinator Todd Bowles has little to build upon, it was so awful), though it cannot be any worse than last season.
The kicking game is still the same mystery it was five years ago.
And the Bucs, with a lousy rushing attack last season, willfully ignored an upgrade there as well.
July 23rd, 2019 at 3:44 pm
That’s certainly true. Terrible coaching and lack of overall talent has really hurt Jameis. The Bucs have been so lousy not even Tom Brady could have helped them. The bottom line is that ignorant coaching and a really bad GM have put the Bucs in a situation that will be hard to recover from this season. I still hope to see some progress this season and perhaps a new GM by the next draft.
July 23rd, 2019 at 3:44 pm
Winston has not exactly given this organization what was expected either. NO SIREE! So there is a WHOLE bunch of stuff Winston and the Bucs need to do. In reality, you have a dysfunctional player (and at least in the near history, dyfunctional person) on a dysfunctional team so far. That’s really all we know. So all need to not act like “oh, poor Jameis….he’s been wronged.” That false narrative is exactly what will NOT help him out going forward.
Wanna know who’s gotten screwed out of all of this? The fans! Let the team and Winston get their collective BS sorted out…NOW!
Let’s get it rolling! Go Buc!
July 23rd, 2019 at 3:45 pm
tell us something we dont know….LOL….
GO BUCS!!!!!
July 23rd, 2019 at 3:52 pm
Having love for the team while simultaneously feeling just a lil’ bit sorry for the players being on our roster with little hope of glory IS one of the sad, little quirks of being a Bucs fan…
July 23rd, 2019 at 3:53 pm
So Joe is saying that jw3 is a “game manager” QB and not a “Franchise QB” that so many claimed he was suppose to be!!!!!!!!!!!! The question is why are the Bucs paying him top 13 money for a QB????????????????
Is that what team Glazer told?????? That with the overall #1 draft pick is a “game manager”????????
If the QB needs a very good defense and too hide behind a running game, then the Bucs could save big money and draft a rookie to do that!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
2019 will reveal answers to the sheep, that the “real” fans already know!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
July 23rd, 2019 at 3:56 pm
And again… Why is a President of Football Operations such a bad idea?
July 23rd, 2019 at 4:11 pm
Well then getting a valid defensive coach with Bowles should bolster that. Arians cares about the running game unlike Koetter and we are at least trying another drafted kicker. The effort is being made and getting rid of McCoy and swapping him out with Suh along with Kwan leaving and replacing him with Devin White should halt the hot butter interior line that running backs seemed to thrive against. Gone are the days when running backs get 10 yards a clip against us en route to an easy touchdown and ice the game. You hit it right on the head Joe, Jameis has never had a decent chance to succeed except in one year. I believe Jameis will prove he is a franchise qb this year. If not blow it up.
July 23rd, 2019 at 4:12 pm
Ironically all the money is being spent mostly on the offensive side of the ball. They said give Winston weapons, protect him, and he will show he can overcome all other team weaknesses.. So they emphasize more on having a good pass protecting o-line (lots of money I might add) but seemingly ignore working on run blocking. He will carry your team. BS ..still waiting. Sometimes he gives some hope but it’s evident he’s not good enough to carry a team on his shoulders every game at this time. The question boggles my mind on how long do we wait? We’ve got some fans who want to run a rookie out of town after his first season but want to reward an average QB a second team crushing 30 million dollar contract. Unfair or not, Winston needs to step up. JMO …I’m not a racist
July 23rd, 2019 at 4:12 pm
Maybe it’d be helpful to start a list for Sando of all the QBs who WOULDN’T benefit from a strong run game, strong kicking game and strong defense. Let’s see, oh ya, there are NONE.
I was especially impressed Joe with Sando’s statement that ‘Winston entered the NFL as a turnover-prone quarterback’. I’m wondering now IF that’s a back-handed slap at the Bucs’ drafting prowess … we used the NUMBER ONE pick in the 2015 draft to draft a QB who was apparently regarded as ‘turnover prone’.
Again in the famous words of Dr Phil … ‘And how’d that work out for you?’
July 23rd, 2019 at 4:13 pm
Is that big #WEAPONS4WINSTON crowd the same bunch that are now pointing to the mess that was the Buc’s defense? Just wondering…
July 23rd, 2019 at 4:29 pm
Wow Joe. Just like your fellow JW man crush folks on this site…you sure did twist his comments the wrong way. Just as your fellow minions twist the stats to make JW look like Joe Montana. What he was saying is that he sucked in college and should have NEVER BEEN THE FIRST PICK IN THE DRAFT AND HE WILL NEVER LEAD A TEAM TO A CHAMPIONSHIP.
July 23rd, 2019 at 4:35 pm
NO DEFENSE
NO KICKER
NO RUN GAME
Marrotta had all 3 and they still will be looking for a QB in next years draft.
He also got a coach FIRED after he MADE the playoffs…
But its all JW fault FOH
This will be JW FIRST Season with ALL 3
Watch how it plays out….
July 23rd, 2019 at 4:35 pm
And to think…they could have drafted Melvin Gordon in 2015 and then picked up Wentz or Goff the following year.
July 23rd, 2019 at 4:40 pm
So Joe is saying the Bucs drafted a game manager #1 overall and not a franchise qb…
Been saying that for years. But I’m labeled a hater as my expectations for a #1 overall pick are higher than FSU fans who wanna give him excuse after excuse for leading the league in turnovers since 2015
July 23rd, 2019 at 4:44 pm
This is one of many indiscretions of our suppose it a leader of the football team
Before the draft, Winston explained that an employee had agreed to give him the crab legs for free, but the store said they found no evidence that employees gave him the food.
He was a liar then and will always be
July 23rd, 2019 at 4:50 pm
Pittshore, it’s clear you know nothing of the publix incident. The employee was fired right after and it was a famous spot for fsu athletes to get a hook up. If the players admit to getting anything ,its impermissible benefits and scholarships are immediately pulled. Jameis hasnt always been honest ,not denying that, but use a little commonsense every now and then. It helps.
July 23rd, 2019 at 4:52 pm
THE O LINE!! when the “O LINE” is fixed then there will be a running game good god the trenches on both sides need major attention.
July 23rd, 2019 at 5:12 pm
What so many seem unwilling to acknowledge is that the Bucs don’t need Jameis (or any QB) to be a Superman who can carry the team on his back. Even Drew Brees couldn’t do that … 3 straight years of 7-9 finishes pretty much demonstrates that even HOF-caliber QBs can’t singularly carry a team to victory. It wasn’t until the Saints surrounded him with a decent run game & defense that the Saints as a TEAM really took off.
The biggest thing that Jameis needs to work on this year is CONSISTENCY. And the biggest part of that is ‘Don’t turn the friggin ball over to the other team’. There’s an interesting stat on footballperspective.com that reads … “As it turns out, the importance of winning the turnover battle has been remarkably static throughout NFL history. Last year, teams that won the turnover battle won 78% of their games”.
That maxim has largely held true for the games the Bucs have played since 2015 when Jameis became our QB. Last year for instance, Bucs LOST the turnover battle 9 times … our record was 1 win, 8 losses. Bucs WON the turnover battle 5 times … our record was 3 wins, 2 losses. Bucs broke even on the turnover battle 2 times … our record was 1 win, 1 loss. Interestingly, in the 2 games where we broke even on turnovers, the 1 loss was by just 2 points. In the 5 games where we won the turnover battle, the 2 games we lost were because the offense only scored 12 pts in 1 game & only 14 pts in the other.
IOW, losing the turnover battle is NOT a good thing. You’ll lose 4 out of every 5 games. If in doubt, ask the Bucs. They’re the poster-child for that maxim.
July 23rd, 2019 at 5:15 pm
Reasonable Buc fans have been saying this for a long time. But most of the writers including the senior one for JoeBucsfan put almost the full blame on Jamies.
Give Dak Prescott a terrible running game, the worst special teams in the NFL along with the worst defense in the NFL and tell me how many games he wins?
The Cowboys are about to extend Dak Prescott.
While the Bucs still have what looks like a bad defense, bad running game and questionable special teams. So what does the senior writer for JoeBucsfan say the Bucs should do if the Bucs go 6-10….get rid of the QB.
Now that is facepalm.
July 23rd, 2019 at 5:20 pm
I agree as I frequently do with MAGADUDE’s post.
JW has not been wronged. The team has not been wronged. the fans have been given it up the tailpipe with no vaseline!!!
So can we stop all this finger pointing. There is SOOOOO much wrong that has taken place that it’s getting pretty silly to look for a scapegoat. I feel that all of the following are the reasons for our suckitude.
We sucked as a team and we’ll win as a team…and when we do JW will get more props than he deserves just as he gets more blame than he deserves…the life of an NFL QB. He has talent and if he’s grown up he’s on his way.
Is our failure all JW”s fault. Of course not…but he does play the most important position and so his bad behavior HAS effected this team. Again though it’s not all JW’s fault..plenty of blame.
Coaching…yep they did a horrible job..
GM/Owners…yep they too are to blame
Bad defense….check
Poor OL resulting in poor running game…check.
There’s plenty of blame to go around. There is no need to try and absolve JW…he DESERVES a lot of the blame…same for Koetter and Smitty and Licht.
NO individual is to blame for our mess…at least D.R. can be happy the Bucs illustrate his mantra of football is a team sport.
We truly failed as a TEAM…not just a QB..or OL..or RB..or defense..or coach or……….
July 23rd, 2019 at 5:22 pm
So nobody thinks the defense can greatly improve from coaching? Nobody realises 12 to 15 yard cushions not only make the secondary look bad but also doesnt leave enough time for the dline to get to the qb? Suh and Vea with a new scheme will stop the run, vetrer coaching and scheme will improve stopping the pass and Ronald Jones will play like he has a stick of dynamite up his rear.
Man the best coach this team has had since dungy and everyone swears it was all talent. Y’all make me laugh
July 23rd, 2019 at 5:23 pm
Realist would cut any qb that couldn’t win on last years team. Realist would cut Tom Brady and sign a rookie qb because Tom Brady would have only won 5 or 6 games with last years coaching. Funny!!!!
July 23rd, 2019 at 5:24 pm
You know what is hilarious? Just a few seasons ago all Buc fans wanted were “weapons for Winston.”
So Licht and team go out and stock the shelves deep with “weapons for Winstor” and the O flourished. All were ecstatic with re-upping Martin and grabbing Jackson.
Now that’s not good enough. Now the same fans are screaming about no defense.
Casuals: can’t win with them, but at least the buy tickets and keep JBF comments comedy central.
July 23rd, 2019 at 5:28 pm
Every QB loses with horrible defenses.
Drew Brees = perennial 3 year loser when dealing with it even after he had established himself in the league already.
Jameis Winston = 6-10 records basically on average while dealing with what Drew Brees dealt with. Almost the same record. Good QBs can’t take 2 win teams to 9 wins but they can take 4 win teams to 6-8.
Not sure when we’ve seen a QB go to a horrific organization with horrific coaching/personnel and elevate them to SB type status while the defense / run game / special teams stayed horrific.
Look at Jared Goff’s rookie year with a bad coach. Dude looked like the worst QB in the league by far even though he had Gurley & a talented roster. Hell Jeff Fischer made Gurley look bad too.
Look at Carr in Houston. dude was destroyed behind a horrible o-line/team and never had a chance to develop. Who knows what his career would have been like if he went to an organization like the Ravens.
Speaking of the Ravens, Joe Flacco is probably a 1-15 type QB in Tampa, but a perrenial winner when playing for a strong organization.
Aaron Rodgers has not been able to win when his defense sucks and his skill players aren’t elite.
Tom Brady has had top 5 defenses basically every year of his career.
It’s a horrible formula to have a horrible team and staff and think a rookie QB can bail you out. Bottom line is no QB is going to win here until the team can build some form of a decent nucleus on both sides of the ball that can at least be average regardless of QB. Note I’m asking for AVERAGE.
Good QB + AVERAGE whole rest of team = likely playoffs
Good QB + worst d/special teams/run game in league = don’t care who the QB is you are screwed.
This is not about arguing Jameis Winston is some top 5-10 elite QB. It’s about the fact that it wouldn’t matter if he was. We’d still have losing records the last 4 seasons.
Hell ESPN had him as their 8th best QB for the season last year per their QBR metrics that take into account game situations/etc along with the stats. But yeah he sucks he is the whole problem.
July 23rd, 2019 at 5:46 pm
Coaching
July 23rd, 2019 at 5:50 pm
JBF, this sentence:
The kicking game is still the same mystery it was five years ago.
Is bunk. We’ve drafted two kickers (unlike every other NFL team) in less than 4 years. We’re going to win a lot of games 30-_ by kicking 10 FGs per game per Jason LightBrain.
July 23rd, 2019 at 5:52 pm
LC is right, you know…
July 23rd, 2019 at 5:53 pm
There ya have it!!! Joe says Winston is bad because the organization is bad.
July 23rd, 2019 at 6:04 pm
Same ridiculously dumb comments from the same posters different day.
July 23rd, 2019 at 6:05 pm
Sure! If he handed the ball off to a monster back, 95%+ of plays and hardly ever let him throw, they may win more but still a wasted #1 over all pick… Soon to be forgotten in the history of the team like so many others before him…
July 23rd, 2019 at 6:24 pm
I’ve been screaming from the mountain tops for at least 2-3 years that the team was built completely backwards – from the outside in.
This is the reason it’s taking twice as long for results to manifest on the field, whereas most teams can turn a team completely around in that time.
They drafted a 20 year old kid into a division with 3 HOF/MVP/SB caliber QB’s and gave him a putrid defense, a ground game that averages about 2.9 ypc, and a slew of kickers who can’t hit routine chip shots; constantly leaving points on the field and killing drives.
Then they put Dirk Koetter on camera and had him tell Jameis that he needed to be Aaron Rodgers for the team to win games.
It goes against literally all football logic. Completely backwards.
But the narrative is that the quarterback is trash…………… riiiiiight…….
Seriously, you can’t make this sh!+ up. But, thankfully. BA sees what we see, seeing as how he’s echoed almost this exact sentiment anytime he’s on a mic.
Go Bucs.
July 23rd, 2019 at 6:25 pm
Makes me sad to admit it, but If Jameis had been drafted by Tennessee instead of us, he’d probably have at least won a couple of playoff games by now and maybe even more than that.
For the past 2 years the Titans have had a solid Oline, Good running game, and a good defense that’s only getting better…
Meanwhile the past 2 years for the Bucs we’ve had an Oline that’s decent at pass Blocking but terrible at run blocking, a below average running game mostly due to afformentioned run blocking… and one of the worst defenses in the league.
The only thing that’s really been holding the Titans back has been Mariota’s health and limited skill set as a thrower.
July 23rd, 2019 at 6:42 pm
With all the weapons he had around him and he couldn’t muster more than 3 points verses the lowly one dimensional Redskins last season. I lost some serious Benjamins on that game last season, and that was when my faith in Winston began to waiver. That game was there on a silver platter against a game managing QB in Alex Smith that our defense held to one TD and two FG’s. You can’t win with no offensive production. ..and that wasn’t the only low scoring game he posted in a league that’s putting up record scores. C’mon man!
July 23rd, 2019 at 6:51 pm
St Pete……Heart point about Winston getting more blame then he should and when we win he’ll get more credit then he should.
I think many Tampa fans don’t realize(or forgotten) that it works that way in every city in the league. Heck, I remember listening to the radio a few years back when the Patriots started slow and the conversation was if Brady was too old and washed up. Was about 5 years ago.
The unfortunate part is that Winston has had problems off the field a d it has muddied the water. It’s destroyed the debate in Tampa Bay because you can’t share an opinion with being labeled either a hater or a nuggler……..I have been called both on this site.
July 23rd, 2019 at 6:57 pm
CGMASTER,
Winston: “A week before it was my buddy’s birthday and we had got a cake and we met a dude who was inside Publix and he said, ‘Hey, any time you come in here I got you.’ So that day we just walked out and he hooked us up with that and when I came in to get crab legs I did the same thing. He just gave them to me and I walked out. And someone from inside the store had told the security that I didn’t pay for them and that’s how the whole thing started.”
July 23rd, 2019 at 7:01 pm
Maybe part of the defensive problem was that our last HC was quoted saying he doesn’t meddle with the defense.
That should never come out of a HCs mouth but I’m glad he was honest so we can know how poor the coaching really was.
There’s no way Bruce doesn’t meddle with the defense.
As far as a run game look no further then 2015. We had a top 5 run game. We higher Dirk and in 2016 we became bottom 5. 2017 bottom 5. 2018 bottom 5……….Losing Mankins can explain a decline but doesn’t begin to explain that steep of a drop. That goes without saying. Add to that there were numerous bad decisions made on OL reguarding positions and it’s obvisous coaching hurt the run game.
July 23rd, 2019 at 7:02 pm
I don’t believe Koetter ever said jameis he needed to be more like Aarron Rogers. My memory of the conversation was that Jameis WAS more like Aarron Rogers than I believe Tom Brady was the comparison. Why, Jameis escapes from the pocket and makes plays after the play breaks down. Aaron Rogers is known for that and Brady is known to be more of a pocket passer.
July 23rd, 2019 at 7:14 pm
I think if you give any qb a great d, great kicking and a great run game, the qb will be good. That’s a system qb, not a 1st pick 20 plus million guy. Not enough $ to go around. I thought all we needed was weapons for Winston and protect him?
July 23rd, 2019 at 7:16 pm
I’ll tell you, one big problem with the d is when the qb leads the league in turnovers and the d has to constantly make stops or you consistanly miss 40 yard fgs and the d starts at midfield.
July 23rd, 2019 at 7:21 pm
So basically had jameis been drafted by Tennessee instead of Tampa Bay he would have been to the playoffs already and possibly even have a few playoff wins on his resume…And Marcus Mariota would most likely be dead by now…
July 23rd, 2019 at 7:30 pm
While I agree that we didn’t address the running game & Oline for the exception of Ellington, Watford and a possible star (Anderson) as an UDFA…..
We certainly addressed many other areas of the team:
Winston with BA & new coaches.
LB with Devin White & some FA additions
DBs with 3 draft picks and a couple of FAs
And at kicker….
As far as the pass rush….the jury is still out with our new 3-4 defense and the pressure we bring at LB along with the swap of GMC for Suh.
We simply didn’t have the cap space to bring in any big names….
July 23rd, 2019 at 7:31 pm
Bob good point about the scrambling…….I wanted to piggy back off that because I have seen Rodgers for years use his legs in the red zone and score very easy TDs because it fools the defense.
Winston seemed to have the same ability when he rushed for 6 TDs as a rookie. 6 is a significant number. Yet we never saw Winston try to run them in once Dirk took over. Don’t know if they coached it out of him but either way he is good at it and should have been coached up to run them in……or even design a play for it.
It’s little things like this that I expect Bruce to identify and utilize. He gets Winston running them in and our red zone problems improve. Then the team scores more points and it leads to more wins. All the sudden Winston looks like a better QB and it has nothing to do with accuracy or deep balls or any other narrite we always here……….I think it’s little things like that is why Bruce says football is not that hard.
July 23rd, 2019 at 7:44 pm
Lord Corn, love how you make the point. Couldn’t (haven’t been able to) say it any better. Appreciate it. Go Bucs!
July 23rd, 2019 at 7:45 pm
Jimmy ,while i agree that Dirk Koetter should have made more of an effort to fix the defense. Koetter was the OC of the 2015 offense which was pretty good in spite of the fact Jameis had 22 td’s and 22 INt’s.
Logan Mankins was a factor . But some of our O line issues were the signing of J R Sweezy who spent his first year on on IR getting paid . Given the fact that Licht made comments that Marpet could be a center when he drafted him.I I believe Licht was responsible for the failed Marpet move to center the next year to get Sweezy in the lineup. Sweezy ended up being more of a pass blocker than the road grader that he was known for. Not a good addition to the team. That didn’t help the running game.
I
July 23rd, 2019 at 7:50 pm
Jimmy ‘ I would also add that has completed some of his more accurrate passes
when he escapes for the pocket. I still remember a 58 yarder to Evans. Also think he sets up well on the run and delivers a better pass oftentimes.
July 23rd, 2019 at 7:51 pm
edit: Jmeis has completed
July 23rd, 2019 at 8:14 pm
I would say Winston is probably the 17-22 ranked QB in the current NFL. Not trying to say he doesn’t have skills, but I can think of at least a dozen and a half QB”s I’d rather have.
July 23rd, 2019 at 8:19 pm
Its funny how someone can read the same article and see different things:
Mike Sando of the Athletic did his 6th annual rating of the NFL quarterbacks. This year he had 55 NFL coaches and executives participate.
A Tier 1 quarterback can carry his team each week. The team wins because of him. He expertly handles pure passing situations.
A Tier 2 quarterback can carry his team sometimes but not as consistently. He can handle pure passing situations in doses and/or possesses other dimensions that are special enough to elevate him above Tier 3. He has a hole or two in his game.
A Tier 3 quarterback is a legitimate starter but needs a heavier running game and/or defense to win. A lower-volume passing offense makes his job easier.
A Tier 4 quarterback could be an unproven player with some upside or a veteran who is ultimately best suited as a backup.
Jameis Winston – 22nd overall out of 30
Tier 2 votes: 6 | Tier 3 votes: 41 | Tier 4 votes: 8
July 23rd, 2019 at 8:25 pm
Its funny how I read the same article as this article writer and wow what a spin.
Look at my post above this one: Jameis was 22nd overall and not in Tier 2 but was in Tier 3. Why no correction. This has been sitting around for almost 5 hours now.
There were other coaches in the article that talked about Winston. One said:
“I don’t think he is anywhere near the quarterback that Carson Palmer was when Bruce got Palmer, and you need that type of quarterback to run Bruce’s offense. When they were good in Pittsburgh, Ben could do all the empties and take the shots and get the ball out quick. Can Winston do that?”
A coordinator who has faced Winston multiple times called the quarterback “super careless” with the ball and not detailed enough to be a top quarterback.
Ouch – I hope that coordinator is wrong and Jameis and Bruce Arians prove him wrong this year.
July 23rd, 2019 at 8:26 pm
Agreed with that Bob. I wonder if we will see Winston rollout a bit more in Bruce’s offense because of that.
Another thing I have noticed with Winston is that he seemed to be very accurate throwing seam routes. Those plays also went away under Koetter in favor of the sideline routes…….I listen to a lot of Buc podcasts and have heard that Bruce runs a lot of seam plays so expect to see them back. I’m defiently looking forward to that.
July 23rd, 2019 at 8:31 pm
You’ve got to build the team to be a whole damn team…offense..defense..special teams!! It don’t work any other way!!
July 23rd, 2019 at 8:32 pm
Bob
Jameis didnt have 22 ints. He had 15 ints. Fyi….the most ints jameis has thrown is 18 his second year. Gotta love the “knowledgable” buc fans. Smdh
July 23rd, 2019 at 8:33 pm
@cgmasterbaiter: I do apologize if my view hurt your precious feelings. Eight years of Obama has made you frail. Enjoy your Mueller interrogation tomorrow on CNN and be calm, your government check will be in the mailbox mid week next week.
July 23rd, 2019 at 8:37 pm
That same Mike Sando article really has some cool nuggets on Baker Mayfield.
One offensive coach said he watched tapes of the whole season of his work this offseason and said the kid can do it all and he understands what all the fuss was about for him.
There was not much love for Trubisky, Mariota, Darnold, or Allen
July 23rd, 2019 at 8:45 pm
JimmyJack … Koetter was our OC from 2015-2018. As the 2015 OC he let rookie Jameis run quite often. Once he became HC AND OC, it looks to me like he put the brakes on Jameis running. As I remember, they did the same thing to Josh Freeman (he was a lot more effective when he ran than when he was ‘confined’).
Jameis is ‘elusive’, but he’s hardly what any of us would call ‘fast’. He does have a way of making guys miss though & that’s a positive. I’m a big believer in the QB sneak in short yardage situations (or at least the threat of it). Over the past several years I thought there were a number of times that Jameis could’ve gotten the 1st down (or the TD) if Koetter had just turned him loose. Hard to know what was REALLY going on though.
July 23rd, 2019 at 8:49 pm
Winston has been anything but a game manager. Alex Smith is a game manager. Winston is a gunslinger who has made boneheaded decisions which cost us games and also made brilliant throws which caused us to have the #1 ranked passing attack last year. Yes, Fitzmagic helped but he also was inconsistent. Jameis has the tools. If he can make better decisions the results will be remarkable. We’ll see whether Arians can be the QB whisperer and turn Winston around.
July 23rd, 2019 at 8:52 pm
Bob in Valrico … Good point about Jameis’ scrambling, but that’s not something a successful QB can do all the time (or SHOULD do all the time). Jameis does get careless with the football at times, and I’ve seen too many times when he loses it WHILE trying to scramble out of a tight spot or evade a would-be tackler. That’s when Bad Jameis shows up it seems. Somehow, someway, BA & company has to get him to be more consistent. And a big part of that is protecting the ball better, as well as making better decisions.
July 23rd, 2019 at 9:09 pm
Don’t blame Jameis for the loss to Washington. Blame Dirk Koetter. He benched Jameis before that game. You were watching Ryan Fitzpatrick at quarterback. Jameis never played in that game.
July 23rd, 2019 at 9:15 pm
DefenseRules……..If you ever get a chance go back and look at Winston’s 3rd INT in Cincinnati.
Witnson fakes a handoff to the left then try to catch Humphries slipping out to the right flat. Hump was covered so Winston looks to his 2nd read which the RB he faked to on the left flat. They held coverage on the RB so Winston then trys to throw over the middle………..My problem is that Winston should never look to throw over the middle on that play. His 3rd option should be to run straight ahead if both flats are covered. Because of the route design all the Line of scrimmage defenders will be on the flats. If there is no pass open you will almost always make a gain with a run. At most you will have one LB to stop the run near the LOS so you won’t be taking a big hit. While watching that play it is obvisous that Winston is not prepared or trained to run even if it’s his best option.
It’s still Winston’s poor decision and he deserved blame. But I say the coaches deserve blame too because their QB was not prepared to run that play properly.
July 23rd, 2019 at 9:30 pm
El Buco Realisto, Tom Brady has been considered a game manager AND a franchise QB for a long time now. The two are not mutually exclusive.
July 23rd, 2019 at 9:33 pm
Lord Cornelius nailed it.
July 23rd, 2019 at 9:34 pm
Davy Jones’ Locker got powned…lol.
July 23rd, 2019 at 9:41 pm
JimmyJack, you make a good point…but without access to the playbook, we don’t know that the play was not designed for him to run. Personally, I believe you are right though.
Winston scrambled a lot his first year. Then suddenly it was like he was told not to the second year. Then in his third year it seemed like he decided to do it anyway (possibly against orders), and he ended up getting injured. Forth year was his suspension? Came in and tried to do too much. His confidence was shot. His coach gave up on him.
So he might have become gun shy about running.
July 23rd, 2019 at 10:07 pm
Honestly, the narrative on Jameis is dry like cement with many of you.
Every QB needs those things Sando mentioned, because it is a team game. Some days, the QB doesn’t have it. That’s where the run game and defense comes in. For instance, Tom Brady wasn’t good vs the Chiefs and Rams last season. The running game, defense, and sound special teams picked up the slack. Russell Wilson and the Seahawks beat a good Minnesota team despite Wilson only throwing for 72 yards.
The bad special teams boil down to a lack of attention to detail by the previous 2 staffs. A team may only have 6 or 7 possessions in an NFL game, so a missed extra point means that team is chasing that point all game. Factor in crap returners who rarely give the Bucs great field position. It seems like they always started at their 25 yard line.
A running game controls the game. It helps your defense by having that defense play less defense. Moreover, the Bucs don’t have a back that can take a screen pass and get big yardage unless the blocking is perfect. It would be nice if Jameis had a safety valve at RB like the other teams in the division.
Jason Licht has done Winston no favors. Yea they needed more weapons after the 9-7 season, but the ignored the running game and offensive line. It’s been three seasons of them refusing to address the right side. Benenoch should be playing RT and Dotson is old. Good teams prepare for a player like Dotson retiring. Good teams would have had Benenoch playing his natural tackle position. so many teams ended up with good running backs throughout the draft, but Licht drafts the only back who can’t catch and another who’s too dumb to grasp the playbook.
Winston does need to improve, but he is very talented. Sit back and look at the QBs we all think are good. Now look at their organizational structure. They have good coaches, solid front offices, solid running games, and defenses that can get stops. Notice I said “get stops.” The Chiefs were bad on D last season, but their front 7 was great at pass rushing thus being able to get stops late. Tampa’s D couldn’t stop a nose bleed. Mahomes is an outstanding talent, but he lucked out and went to Andy Reid. Heck, Reid got Kevin Kolb paid.
Jameis hasn’t had the opportunity to play with the things we mentioned. Heck, I believe Jameis and the rest of the team would love Arians and his staff for one reason. Arians is a teacher. Winston will have a good season, but the schedule, lack of run game, and Dwill keep this team out of the playoffs again.
July 23rd, 2019 at 10:18 pm
Bonzai you are right that we don’t know the play. But it seems obvisous that Winston is not trained to use his legs because we have gotten to see him all year long, not just that one play.
How often do we see him drop into the pocket and ho through his progressions……..If he doesn’t unload the ball we see him get Happy feet. When that happens you can literally see his head jerk back and forth looking for a receiver feverishly & this has resulted in a lot of his bad decisions.
If he was trained to use his legs it would show up more on film. And we would see less of him sitting in the pocket getting antsy. But it seems like we have seen more and more of these moments over the years.
July 23rd, 2019 at 10:28 pm
That’s the point Joe. He got himself benched after I had made the bet.
July 23rd, 2019 at 10:28 pm
On top of the fact that Winston plays very good outside of the pocket he also has one of the best ad lib receivers in the league with Mike Evans……..Just get Winston outside of that pocket. Let him reset his thought process because that is a strength of his. Then he’s got Evans who is awesome at reworking his route to find his QB……….Ya ever wanna talk about neutering the QB start right there.
July 23rd, 2019 at 10:28 pm
Webster
my mistake
go ahead pat yourself on the back
July 23rd, 2019 at 10:38 pm
Jimmy , and Dr
i have Rogers move to the left of the pocket and stand there long enough to throw a deep pass. I would say that Rogers escapes are more controlled.
Jameis either bounces or squirts out of the pocket most often. He plays on instincts ,in part because the O line can’t sustain blocks like Green Bay’s O line
did in previous years.
I do remember some of the running plays Jimmy is talking about. He often had a clear path to the endzone .
July 23rd, 2019 at 10:45 pm
edit: seen Rogers move to the left
July 23rd, 2019 at 10:52 pm
Yeah Bob. Aaron Rodgers scrambles look much more controlled. And I would bet money that’s because it’s something that team works on and prepares for. When he decides to get out of the pocket his lineman already know which steps he is going to try to take. His shallow receivers already know to turn their bodies and setup some blocks. His deep receivers already know which way Rodgers is going and what spots to get to.
They already know these things cause they work on it as a team. The Bucs do not and it shows on film…….Usually when Winston leaves the pocket it looks like a fire drill & has been explained as much by professional broadcasters.
July 23rd, 2019 at 11:00 pm
I have mixed feelings on QB’s running
I feel it shortens their careers Jameis did hurt his shoulder while trying to outrun a defender. But it beats two or three lineman converging on you.
I did like the way Fitz would make a quick decision to run and lower his head and takeoff to an open spot. If Jameis is going to run I would much rather see him do that and not waste time faking a pass.
July 23rd, 2019 at 11:00 pm
Once again I repeat.
This team sucked before Jameis got here and it will suck long after he leaves and prospers on another team.
July 23rd, 2019 at 11:14 pm
Good News is that I think Bruce will rework all this into Winston’s game.
This isn’t The Waterboy and Bruce aren’t bringing in no magical playbook with indefensible plays. The biggest vice is decision making and always has been. The decision making can be changed by changing style……Once you change the style you are gonna change the mental processing. If the right changes are made we all know we has the talent. 2019 could be a lotta lotaa fun!!!!!
My guess 11-5 GO BUCS!!!!
July 23rd, 2019 at 11:14 pm
Bottom line is since Jameis has been here the team/coaches have not really played to his strengths&abilities. If that’s referring to seam routes or limiting him to a game manager role. So be it. The Bucs have asked him to do everything all the time. A true leader asks their people to do what they’re best at and limit the chance of failure. The Bucs have done nothing to that goal. Can Jameis be better? Yes. Obviously. Should leadership expect him (and bet the season on him to be) better? I’d say at their peril. Give him a good defense to limit his “I have to catch-up at all cost every down” gene and a semi-capable defense…..there maybe success.
July 23rd, 2019 at 11:19 pm
We do have a few wide receivers and TE’s who are very good blockers. If Evans for one wasn’t blocking for Hump his YAC yards would have been quite a bit leess, IMO.
Godwin and and Oj are also pretty good in this area. We are going to need them,
because our offense will be less predictable when our WR screens almost always on the left side.
July 23rd, 2019 at 11:31 pm
Bob most of the running I’d like to see Winston add to his game I’d like to see behind the line of scrimmage. Don’t need him running for 1st downs all the time. Just running and using his legs more to buy more time if his hot reads aren’t there.
Once Winston gets out of the pocket we’ve seen him make tons of plays off of it & lots of those have been with his arm.
Then you get in the red zone and give him quicker reads. If it’s not open get him out of the pocket quickly and he will find you TDs…….That’s when you’ll probably see him run more cause a guy like him aren’t gonna think twice if he see an open blade of grass he can run to for a TD.
July 23rd, 2019 at 11:49 pm
When have the leagues worst gm this just how it is
July 24th, 2019 at 5:42 am
Jameis didn’t get injured in his 3rd year because he decided to scramble anyway, he got hurt inside of the pocket when Donovan Smith got beaten badly off the edge. First in Minnesota, then in Arizona and again in Buffalo.
July 24th, 2019 at 6:10 am
Bonzai,
Jameis ran the ball one less time in year 2 as year 1. 3rd year was down due to injury. The 4th year He ran a few more times than in year 1 or 2.
Basically, it’s the opposite of what you remember.
July 24th, 2019 at 6:11 am
He IS who we thought he WAS! The ‘ol “gunslinger” ! Well, style points don’t win games without a TEAM behind you.
Bad management,bad coaching.