“I See Guys In There On Off Days Trying To Watch Tape & Stuff”
July 14th, 2019
Joe loves, loves, loves to be positive about the Buccaneers.
But too often incessant losing, mind-numbing moves and bad luck get in the way of those warm and fuzzy feelings.
Once upon a time, a Bucs official got on Joe’s ass about negativity on these pages. Joe’s quick response was simple: “the team has lost 17 out of 20 games.” And Joe added that this website would be ground zero for Bucs cheerleading if/when the Bucs show signs of being good again.
Well, things haven’t gone so great (although Joe’s traffic on these pages continues to explode and draw the attention of intelligent industry observers).
Is real improvement coming to the Bucs this season? Joe’s feeling good about that tonight listening to the words of former Bucs offensive coordinator and current QB coach Clyde Christensen.
He talked to manbeast JoeBucsFan.com intern Zach Seifter last week and shared his quick impressions of the rookies drafted to lead the overhaul of the Bucs defense.
“I think those guys will kind of be the foundation of this thing,” Christensen said. “I see a lot of enthusiasm. I see guys flying around. I see guys wanting to learn. I see guys in there on off days trying to watch tape and stuff. And those are good signs. Those are good signs. If you can build around your draft picks, then you got a chance to do something for the long haul.”
Amen to that.
The Bucs had a strong draft class in 2015 and they couldn’t capitalize for a variety of reasons. Hopefully, this year’s edition is another “grand slam,” or at least a triple that can mark the beginning of sustainable success.
July 14th, 2019 at 7:26 pm
yawn
July 14th, 2019 at 7:33 pm
Good news, I like it!
July 14th, 2019 at 7:42 pm
Christianson said nothing with a lot of words.
July 14th, 2019 at 7:45 pm
Hopefully I’ll win the lottery sooner than later
July 14th, 2019 at 7:48 pm
“Joe loves, loves, loves to be positive about the Buccaneers. But too often incessant losing, mind-numbing moves and bad luck get in the way of those warm and fuzzy feelings.”
I really can’t imagine that. My emotions on total positive praise for this team have been unflappable despite the misery of the last decade plus. I’m all in, all the time. Yessiree…blind love and faith for my Bucs. From 1976 and 0-26 to now, every year.
HA! Nope. Having fun anticipating and hoping, but on the Bucs I’m not shouting from the rooftops until I see some in-game results. I burned out about 1996 on “blind love” and that’s when things got better. And then got worse again about 2008.
I’m not going to have an October letdown when I find myself with $4K in guest tickets left and I can barely give them away. I’ve got it down to where I always go to my road games in the first half of the season because flying across the country to see my team play when they are already eliminated sucks. I’m ready to settle in for the worst now.
I have been in (always constructive) tizzies with the Bucs folks over the years, who are friends and important associates for me, and it’s been heated to the point of “You can’t do what you do, charge what you do, have policies that you do….and LOSE! And continue to have people come back. This isn’t NY, or PIT, or CHI or even CLE where there is enough legacy fanbase from most of a century to carry the Bucs through rough times, especially when you kick them every freaking year. Happily, I know they get that now, and are VERY motivated to get old fans back in the building. If the bad things would only stop…
So while I’m not going anywhere and might as well give them my bank card pin number…this gets old AFTER 40+ YEARS! So it’s good to hear good stuff…but do we ever hear anything but that. I mean, the Bucs themselves are supposed to be all charged up when talking to the public, and every season has 32 teams all thinking SB and in week 2, it’s still playoffs, right?
So we need to know what independent outlets think, like JoeBucsFan, so we can get the unadulterated scoop…and well…then let’s rock!
July 14th, 2019 at 8:16 pm
Maybe our fundamental problem Joe is that the 2015 draft class wasn’t REALLY as strong as you seem to believe. Jameis, Donovan & Ali are still all here, and making a cumulative $44.5 mil. In 4 years here, that ‘core group’ has posted a 25-39 record and is now on their third HC. I have to question whether that group will be the ones to lead the Bucs out of the doldrums we find ourselves in. They’re all decent players, but none of the three are true leaders IMO.
Personally I think our strength going forward will be found in our DEFENSE not our offense, just like it was in our ‘golden years’ from 1996-2002. The Bucs wouldn’t have won diddly if not for our DEFENSE. And we won’t truly be a contender until our DEFENSE finds its way back into the Top-10 annually. And that day is coming sooner than many seem to think.
July 14th, 2019 at 8:38 pm
It took 15 yrs and unsuccessful coaches before along came Dungy to get the Bucs back in the playoffs. Dungy is a defensive genius (evidence based) who put us back in competition. No, he didn’t do well with the offense, however, unlike his predecessors, he regained the respect n put us back in playoff contention with a household name. Fast forward n it’s been 12 yrs since the Bucs visited the playoffs as a contender. Well, along comes BA n his posse, known for winning n bringing an aggressive style defense to an already productive offense that will also become aggressive, n we’re back in the heat of things for playoff contention. BA took the head coaching job of the Bucs for the same reason Gruden did. He’s the needed piece to the puzzle. Just like Dungy did what his predecessors’ failed to do, BA also will do what his predecessors’ failed to do. The Bucs are back!
July 14th, 2019 at 8:38 pm
has posted a 25-39 record
—————
To add some perspective, that 64% winning percentage is twice as good as the Bucs 32% winning percentage since 1974.
Idk if you need a top ten defense although that would be great but maybe a defense that can hold a 3 point or 6 point lead with 5 minutes left in the game.
You guys remember when Brent Hundley drove the entire length of the field to beat us in GB? 4mins left in the fourth with a lead and we let a back-up drive the length of the field to beat us.
Or who could forget Kurt Cousins 25 point come back, Jameis gave us a 20 point lead at half and it still wasn’t good enough. Quite a few games where we were ahead in the 4th and simply gave up the booty.
Carolina when cam fumbled at the goal line and still had time to pick it up and run threw McIceCream’s hole for the win.
None of this matters though bc Winston threw 5 picks against Cincinnati.
Damn you Winston and your 40 year history of losing games all the way back to pop warner and turning this storied franchise into a losing team. Shame shame shame! Lol
July 14th, 2019 at 8:44 pm
The beginning of sustainable success starts with coaching and culture.
Accountability, discipline, focus, work ethic, talent…
Since 2008 , when Gruden had to work with Garcia and Griese at qb and then Kiffin quit (and so did rest of defense as well) with playoffs on the line, the Bucs organization has been inconsistent and lacking in all of the above.
Arians and staff have the track record to warrant optimism that Bucs can win again.
Buc fans are naturally skeptical, but this is strongest coaching staff since Gruden era
July 14th, 2019 at 9:14 pm
You are right dmatt, the Bucs are back! BA is from the same Pittsburg Coaching Tree as Dungy and Pittsburg has done very well under their current HC who learned Coaching under Dungy while being a Bucs Asst. Coach when Dungy was our HC. BA has brought us his own DC who is a Defensive Guru and with the infusion of young players in this draft we will show much better Defense from the start of this season and it will only get better when PFF comes back. Yes the 2015 draft brought us two excellent Guards though Clueless Warhop kept moving one through three positions keeping him out of the Pro Bowl and stuck the other as a LT when he is not quick footed enough to block speed rushers when he could have gone to the Pro Bowl as a Guard. Of course Warhop did not develop either one of them but fortunately Logan Mankins recognized their potential right away and took them under his wing to develop and taught them the ropes. No other later offensive linemen with potential such as Pamphile who could have been Dotson’s successor were ever developed to their potential by Warhop but BA’s Coaches have been doing it this year finally and you will see the results this season!
July 14th, 2019 at 9:19 pm
Alan that’s a good point that fans are naturally skeptical but I don’t see what they’re so afraid of. Not like the Bucs could let us down any worse they they have in the past.
Can’t imagine a more disappointing season then 2003. Following this franchise has taught me how to handle losing much better then I used to. Guess not all fans have learned it yet.
Either way don’t let the rampant negatitity bring you down. Fans have been awful at predicting this team over the years. Look no further then the 2017 preseason. Fans were predicting multiple SuperBowls…….Personally I had lost faith when the Cowboys stomped us in 2016 & we followed it with a disgracful showing in New Orleans to get bounced from contention……..But I bit my tongue when fan til thought we were SB ound cause I didn’t wanna rain on anybody’s parade……….be nice if that sentiment was a two way street but whatever. Let them hop on the bandwagon later I say.
11-5
GO BUCS!!!!!!
July 14th, 2019 at 9:30 pm
BA fan……It really is nauseating at the lack of development. You can point at Warhop and be accurate but if you look at Dirk’s regime we didn’t develope a single OL player not one CB and not one LB. I guess we gotta be fair and give credit for Vea but one DL in three seasons is shabby at best. We can genuinely question the developement of QB which is the main reason Dirk was hired.
Questioning the talent we had is fair but you just can’t ignore the lack of developement of young players. Aside from receiving weapons it has been non existent.
Totally confident that BA will step in and develope a few players for the first time in a long time……..Then maybe the fans will see that building a team is much more then splurging in free agency and tanking for draft slots……Those things get you nowhere with subpar coaching.
Let the Bucs get good then we can be great!!!
July 14th, 2019 at 9:58 pm
JimmyJack-
For me, I feel better about Defense and Special teams ,
I think we’re ok at running back
I don’t feel good about the right side of OLine, and I don’t think Arians is finished with it either.
I just want to see a season where they don’t collapse in December.
July 14th, 2019 at 10:02 pm
DB55
Your math skills betrayed you although it was an easy mistake to make.
Let me add some perspective as you might say. 25-39 is a LOSING record!!! That means they won LESS than 50% of their games.
Here’s where I believe your mistake occurred…divided 25 by 39 and indeed you get 64% but that’s not how % is figured.
They won 25 NOT of 39 games but 25 of 64 games. Divide 25 by the total number of games…64 and you get the right % which is 39%.
So from my perspective…not too terrifically changed…indeed 39% is somewhat better than 32% but it still sucks!
Let’s try one more % game. Richie Incognito will absolutely miss the first two games of a 16 game schedule or 1/8. That means Richie will miss 12.5% of the 2019 schedule. If indeed availability is the best ability then Richie simply needs to retire and get it over with.
July 14th, 2019 at 10:13 pm
In other news, was fortunate enough to meet Mr White today our new savior and got my Jersey signed. If his play matches his personality……..Men we’ve got ourselves something special!
July 14th, 2019 at 10:17 pm
I think there is a lot of reason to believe Vea and White will both have very good seasons and be legit players for this team. If all the recent picks in the secondary can produce any solid combo of players, this defense has potential! Please Bowles…. have an impact on this team!
July 14th, 2019 at 10:30 pm
Alan my biggest concern with out OL isn’t the right side. I’m more concerned with the left side and center. Them guys are all high paid and haven’t played to the potential we are paying them(except maybe Marpet). If we can get them guys earning their keep I think we will be fine.
If they live to their potential we got 3 premium players on OL. That should be plenty enough for any decent coach. It shouldn’t take 5 elite players to get good OL play. RG is our biggest concern but I think we ate fine. We got 2 experienced veterans and a developing players competing there. No excuses not to have solid play from that position. Dotson can play solid too.
If Bruce gets Max potential from that group we will be fine.
Tackle drpth is alarming though. Just hope they got a good plan there.
July 14th, 2019 at 11:23 pm
@SPBF:
You must be a math major! Nice work!
tickrdr
July 15th, 2019 at 1:23 am
Jimmy Jack,
I believe our beloved GM feels somewhat the opposite of what you think.
Smith and Marpet were both resigned. If you remember the bucs team building philosophy is build thru the draft, develop the players, and then success is measure by the players the team resigns.
Obviously, that means smith and marpet have developed. Kwon and Hump as well as both were priced out of the bucs salary cap restricted payroll.
I’m guessing lichts evaluation on our free agent center was through and tons of Flim was reviewed. Apparently what licht watched on film was enough to make him the highest paid center in the league.
Now I don’t have any problems with what you think about the players. I mostly agree. But the simple fact neither you nor myself has any say so in the matter. Therefore , as much as you wish to blame koetter, it’s not the answer.
Koetter doesn’t pick the players. Licht did. Koetter didn’t resign anyone. Licht did. If a player didn’t develop, in lichts opinion there’s no reason why he would resign the player. Unless it was at a deep discount. Consider the fact that Licht has no history of operating like that, it can only mean one thing, he believes that the player has grown in the system.
Any talk about developing a player is incomplete without acknowledging peyton barber. A running back who was the definition of development project when he signed. Since you acknowledge the receiver group no need to mention it. And if you believe that winston has grown each year then…he developed. Basically that covers all the offensive groups…developed and stamped with lichts seal of approval. ..mo money….
July 15th, 2019 at 1:34 am
DB55,
The Green Bay game. Wasn’t that the game that the team lost in overtime?
Fumble on the first play…..
And it’s the same game I believe that winston delivered a perfect strike for a touch down ..Unfortunately, the opposing team was the beneficiary of Winston’s charity.
Basically, the defense allowed a rookie running back from utep to run wide
on the last drive to tie the game. A fumble in ot lost the game.
Mathematics and memory. ……. Is Mike Smith your spirit guide?
July 15th, 2019 at 5:00 am
Defense Rules Says: Jameis, Donovan & Ali are still all here, and making a cumulative $44.5 mil. In 4 years here, that ‘core group’ has posted a 25-39 record and is now on their third HC. I have to question whether that group will be the ones to lead the Bucs out of the doldrums we find ourselves in. They’re all decent players, but none of the three are true leaders IMO.”
Ouch! Clearly Ali is earning his keep, and Winston and Smith aren’t the worst out there, but Smith arguably is only in the position still because the Bucs have so many needs; replacing him has not been the most burning priority.
July 15th, 2019 at 5:16 am
@SPBF…as the de facto leader in the selfless role of JBF math expert…and the Incognito nut job availability…consider what suspensions mean for any “team player” not being availble for thei team:
– 3 Game Suspension: Screw Your Team/Fans 19% of the Time (1 of 5 games)
– 4 Game Suspension: ” ” ” 22% of the time (1 of 4 games)
– Idea of New CBA With 16-Game Cap/18-Game Season: 11%, > 1 in every 10 games.
And see how fans take it in the shorts: For a say, $3,000 season ticket, averaging $188 per game, fans are suck with “someone else” playing in the position between 1 and 4 games…meaning they are taking up to $752 (4 X $188) and throwing it down a hole because some dudes are selfish or otherwise don’t get it. And this is on top of already “wasting” $376 on two preseason games. So ticket buying fans have a unique pisstivity justification when their players or the league make them pay for game despite their own stupidity.
July 15th, 2019 at 5:18 am
^^^^That is, YOU are the Mr. ORSA (are you up to it)…and we were addressing just the other day about season tickets and wasted games.
July 15th, 2019 at 6:31 am
Add Cam Brate to the list of players developed in the Koetter regime.
July 15th, 2019 at 6:40 am
DB55
The Green bay should have been an easy game . You are right that defense should
have played better at the end of the game. As good a game as Jameis had ,
his fumble for a 52 yard Green Bay score was instrumental in letting Green Bay back in the game.
July 15th, 2019 at 7:06 am
If you look at both sides of the ball, its hard to deny that there was development
on the offensive side of the ball. Brate, Hump and Barber were all UFDA that developed. Godwin also developed. You have two O line man good enough to
be resigned. Somebody did something right finding these players.
The defensive side of the ball is where there was arrested development. We should have been drafting better quality players instead of the succession of
a series castoffs from other teams like Swaggy Baker ,T J ward .
July 15th, 2019 at 7:17 am
edit :
there was not development on the offensive side3 of the ball.
I also thought that Brent grimes play was gradually declining in his last two years here.
July 15th, 2019 at 7:57 am
That’s not what happened in the GB game in 2017. The Bucs were leading until the 2 min mark in the 4th Q 20-17 and GB drove down the field and scored the FG and took it to OT. Got the coin toss and drove down for 6, game over. 20-26
The ‘fumble’ which was controversial because Jameis looked to have a knee down and Dot knocked it out of his hand took place in the 2nd quarter with the Bucs down 10-7. Bucs loss was mainly because poor defense and special teams. They gave up a block punt, completely unblocked player up the middle lead to a TD in 2nd quarter and long drive in 4th for points to put it in OT. Jameis has a good game. 21/32 for 275 yards 2 TDs 0 interceptions.
July 15th, 2019 at 8:57 am
I absolutely agree and love the article in till the end. Joe just could not help himself. Had to again try to praise the 2015 draft. Jeanie who is our top pic in that one? With the number one pick we drafted a guy who has the same problems he did in college. And accuracy, bad decisions on and off the field, and women coming forward with complaints that he has to write out checks for. If Joe could ever write an article without shining Jameis Winston, that would be a miracle!
July 15th, 2019 at 8:58 am
Voice texting sorry for the auto corrections
July 15th, 2019 at 9:01 am
It’s a team sport…and these young secondary players will help this team win a few games this season!!GO BUCS GO SUHY GO FAMOUS ONE!!
July 15th, 2019 at 9:27 am
Standinglass man,
Respectfully have to diagree. Just because an announcer suggests that jameis knee may have touched ,doesn’t make it true. I don’t see any knee touch in the replay. You just can’t try to try to throw the ball when you are off balance and falling down. This is an ill advised attempt to pass that slipped out of his hands
while falling down.
ttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Piz2-tok_8
July 15th, 2019 at 9:29 am
ttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Piz2-tok_8
July 15th, 2019 at 5:20 pm
Your whole description of the game was wrong. I never said that play didn’t take place. Was his knee down, should Dotson been standing their to knock it out instead of blocking someone is irrelevant. The Bucs weren’t winning and it was the 2nd quarter. Jameis had a great game and was not at all the reason for the loss. As stated it was defense and special teams mistakes. There are no easy wins in the nfl even playing against a backup Qb.