The War On Jameis
July 3rd, 2019
Numbers. (Photo courtesy of Buccaneers.com.)
The way people freak about America’s Quarterback, Pro Bowler Jameis Winston, you’d think the guy was a combination of Trent Dilfer, Stewart McClown and Zach Mettenberger rolled into one.
Joe was just running through numbers last night and some stats jumped out .
First, there is no question Jameis has to cut down on turnovers. He cannot have another mental meltdown like he did at Cincinnati. And damn it, hang on to the football! The fumbles drive Joe bananas and there is no excuse for Jameis to be that sloppy.
Completion percentage
Jameis had his best completion percentage of his career. Yes, it is true. He completed 64.6 percent of his passes. Compared to other NFL it’s not great, but not awful. No. 21 in fact. Aaron Rodgers had a completion percentage of 62.3 percent. Joe hasn’t heard any Packers fans bawling about Rodgers’ alleged inaccuracy.
Touchdown percentage (percentage of touchdowns thrown per attempts)
Jameis was middle of the pack here at 5.0, same as Ben Roethlisberger and Kirk Cousins and better than Dak Prescott (4.2) and Rodgers (4.2)
Average yards gained per pass attempt
Jameis did quite good here as he was No. 10 in the league at 7.9 average yards per attempt. Better than Carson Wentz 7.7, Roethlisberger 7.6, Tom Brady 7.6, Prescott 7.4, Rodgers 7.4 and Andrew Luck 7.2.
Yards per completion
Again, Jameis did well here. Jameis was seventh in the NFL with an average of 12.3 yards per completion, ahead of Deshaun Watson 12.1, Rodgers 11.9, Matty Ice 11.7, Brady 11.6, Drew Brees 11.0 and Luck 10.7. This number doesn’t really blend really well with the “Jameis is inaccurate” prattle.
You can compare Jameis’ numbers with all NFL quarterbacks by clicking here.
Does Jameis have areas of his game that need work? Sure. For those who think Jameis should be run out of town, what alternative do you suggest, Tyrod Taylor? Ryan Tannehill? Blake Bortles? A.J. McCarron? Blaine Gabbert? Who?
For those on the fence about Jameis quarterbacking the Bucs, just heed the words of immortal Bucs coach Raheem Morris when he famously said to Stylez White, “I will tolerate you until I can replace you.”
July 3rd, 2019 at 5:13 am
JW is a franchise QB and will be paid like one.
He will finally have a Defense, Great coaching and a kicker.
So he shouldnt be down 30 second quarter.
Remember Kirk Cousins got 96 Mil for nothing.
We should count it a blessing we have JW.
To think some of yall REALLY wanted Mariotta and he is TRASH lol
Go Bucs!!
11-5
July 3rd, 2019 at 5:15 am
Thank YOU!! Objectivity is key. and fans, especially ones that were already biased, find this hard to grasp. Jameis is a franchise qb who has had a TRASH team for 4 years. Brady would have had the same results with that “leadership” or lack thereof.
July 3rd, 2019 at 5:21 am
Good read, Joe. As I’ve said, there is no choice for any Bucs fan but to have Winston here this year (already owed money, salary cap issues) and hope he does well, so the team wins. Certainly what Raheem said applies. None of the alternatives Joe mentions are worthwhile, and this is not an either/or issue. so the answer is “none of the above” and “draft a QB. Winston is only the second QB in NFL history to be a disgrace to team owners, team mates, fans, and community, so one can’t blame the ownwers, but they knew he had baggage when they drafted him and took a risk. And so far, his effect has not been what was intended. So unless somehow this year Winston balls out as a player AND suddenly is this amazing character the the masses trust and want to pay big money to come out and watch, it’s past time to draft a QB. I doubt one season is enough to earn back all that he selfishly threw away. Use the QB whisperer while they can to bring up another guy. They will save BIG on salary cap and can get the show back on the road.
July 3rd, 2019 at 5:23 am
^^^That is, we are “blessed” with a QB on hour hands who for only the second time in NFL history, has disgraced all in the way Winston did. Move on.
July 3rd, 2019 at 5:25 am
Instead of “War on Jameis” a more fitting title would perhaps be: “Will Winston’s Self-Inflicted Wound Heal In Time?” 🙂
July 3rd, 2019 at 5:32 am
I think most the Jameis haters have despised him since he was drafted and have never looked back. With all the alleged off-field issues that surrounded him in college, they followed him into the NFL, along with the same attorney who chased down the previous sexual assault case a year after it allegedly occurred. Those people who hate Jameis wholeheartedly are never going to turn away from that shadow cast over him. Are those people right? Maybe. But I don’t agree at all. And the numbers have shown that Jameis has been a solid QB. Especially for a kid that entered the NFL commanding offenses at 20 years old.
July 3rd, 2019 at 5:43 am
Joe, the X-factor in your stats is the WR/TE corps he was throwing to. The Bucs last year had inarguably a Top-5 receiving corps when you factor in TEs.
I think the play calling was above average except when you got into the redzone, then it really went downhill. Some of that was on Winston, but a lot of it was due to predictability in the calls.
Winston has a lot of gifts, but also a couple glaring weaknesses, and you are only as strong as your weakest link. It WILL come down to coaching and play-calling, but without a strong running game, a QB like Winston will always be LIMITED. He has proven he is not one of those elite QBs who can carry the offense.
July 3rd, 2019 at 5:58 am
Completion % is overated. Remove all the dump offs to RBs which the Bucs did not do a lot of the last 4 seasons.
July 3rd, 2019 at 5:58 am
“The war on Jameis” ! Well done Joe. This should keep ’em fed!
July 3rd, 2019 at 6:01 am
It’s akin to the war on Christmas! Just flat out un-American!!!
Lol!
July 3rd, 2019 at 6:10 am
Jameis has already done enough to earn a second contract in my book. The only question is the size of the contract.
He is the best starting QB who has ever played for the Bucs. He’s broken multiple records, and this year he will break several more.
I do not blame most of the losing on him, outside of a couple games. Winning is a team effort and in most games he did more than enough to win.
Blaming the lack of a running game is an excuse, but the lack of good kicking and defense is .ore than valid.
And so far as off the field, nothing was ever proven, and I still believe in innocent until proven guilty.
July 3rd, 2019 at 6:10 am
Very little dinking & dunking from Jameis drives down his completion percentages…….Jameis is fine folks…..a bit of work on turnovers would help….but let’s work on the running game, defense & ST to improve our overall team.
July 3rd, 2019 at 6:11 am
War on Jameis? Haha!! Jameis is his own worst enemy. It’s funny, Joe, that you often mention truly great QB’s when attempting to defend (once again…it gets old) Winston. Why…WHY do you have to defend him so often, if he’s that freaking great? Answer…because he SUCKS, that’s why. Now, let’s get into his off the field bullspit………and that’s where he REALLY sucks, and has alienated a huge part of the Bucs’ fan base.
July 3rd, 2019 at 6:17 am
Bonzai-“Best Buc QB ” ain’t exactly difficult in this era. I’m actually hoping that we won’t need to rely on Jameis this year. Stay away from the 35+ attempts per game, play some D, and balance the offense and we should be fine.
July 3rd, 2019 at 6:20 am
As much crap as I give about JBF content being bad for the mental health of fans who lean positive, I am absolutely obligated to give credit where credit is due. After reading this article, I put the gallon of sleeping pills back in the locked cabinet. Thanks for another day, Joe…I really appreciated this read! Very encouraging.
July 3rd, 2019 at 6:34 am
Jameis Winston is AMERICA’s Quarterback!!!
July 3rd, 2019 at 6:39 am
Joe – you nailed it. Jameis isn’t a franchise QB. But the Bucs didn’t feel there was a guy available in FA or draft to replace him.
But do you really trust the Bucs judgement ? Licht and co have been horrible.
July 3rd, 2019 at 6:40 am
You can make the argument that when healthy Marcus mariota has been better. Problem is he can’t stay on the field which makes that 2015 1-2 argument a colossal bust.
July 3rd, 2019 at 6:46 am
Good points Magadude, and you’re right … “there is no choice for any Bucs fan but to have Winston here this year”. BA has bought in & I’m HOPEFUL that he can turn Jameis into the QB this franchise so desperately needs. Reality to me though is that Jameis will have to perform very, very well this year to earn a huge contract going forward. You simply can’t pay a QB one-sixth of your salary Cap unless he’s truly a ‘force multiplier’ … one who clearly demonstrates strong, consistent performance on the field as well as exemplary leadership on & off the field. Jameis has a ways to go on both counts IMO, but the POTENTIAL is there. I don’t want to see the Bucs give up on him prematurely like we’ve given up on so many others.
DalvinCookRules made some excellent points, but I’m not sure I agree with the bottom line (that “without a strong running game, a QB like Winston will always be LIMITED”). Certainly a strong running game helps win games, but with a great receiving group, strong running game & good OLine (necessary for a strong running game), ANY starting-caliber QB should do well (look at Dilfer with the Ravens in 2000 … Ravens rushed for 2199 yds that year & Dilfer/Banks passed for 2815 yds).
Reality in today’s NFL is that ‘you can’t have it all’. IF you pay big bucks to a QB, OLine & receiving group (WRs & TEs) like we do, then something else suffers. In our case, defense & RBs have taken the hits over the years (drafting & free agency). And as a consequence, our defense has stunk it up & our running game is mediocre. Wow, whodathunkit? It’s about TEAM-BUILDING, and the Bucs have done a lousy job in that area. Hmmm, who should we thank for that I wonder?
July 3rd, 2019 at 7:04 am
21-33 record, no playoffs, 58 interceptions in four years, including 14 in 11 games last season. He can easily be replaced. Sticking with failure, year after year is not a winning strategy.
That said BA and his Golf cart are here to participate in working these numbers in another direction.
We shall see.
Self-inflicted by Winston not a war on!
July 3rd, 2019 at 7:08 am
The “Best” QB in Buccaneers history is not even on track to make the ring of Honor at Ray Jay. (or get a second contract)
BA and his Golf cart to the rescue!
July 3rd, 2019 at 7:17 am
IMO, the decision to keep or let go Jameis ,should include whether he is able to decrease his INT % down to a more respectable number like 2.5% or less. He also
needs to score more TD’s, so I would look for at least anther percentage point increase in TD %.
Score more touchdowns and have less turnovers, Thats the ticket!
July 3rd, 2019 at 7:25 am
Imo the only negative in his game is the turnovers…
There’s no excuse for them but with that being said, with the exception being the bonehead turnovers, alot of them can easily be explained…He was thrown into the fire immediately on a bad team and asked to throw far too many low percentage deep passes far to often…Not even the great Tom Brady is asked to go down the field as much as Jameis….
Personally I think he’s ahead of the curve for a 25 year old QB…many QBs best years seem to be their late 20’s to early 30’s…What many of his naysayers chose to ignore is his durability, his production, his willingness to put in the hard work, the fact that he has gotten better every year, and I personally love the fact that he isn’t a diva…
I expect BA and Co. to help Jameis take his game to the next level…
July 3rd, 2019 at 7:29 am
I’m a wait an see guy with Jamies for this year
However, Stats are the thing you pull out when your losing
Like a Bucs Football Coach once said “Stats are for losers”
July 3rd, 2019 at 7:30 am
Joe Question ????????
Once someone is in moderation do they ever come out?
July 3rd, 2019 at 7:41 am
Too early in the morning for a very long detailed response (repeating something for the 50th time). Simply put, Joe is not a code writer and can’t rewrite code for WordPress.
Joe certainly doesn’t enjoy always digging comments out of moderation at all hours of the day.
July 3rd, 2019 at 7:47 am
ATrain Says:
July 3rd, 2019 at 7:30 am
Joe Question ????????
Once someone is in moderation do they ever come out?
.
.
.
.
No
July 3rd, 2019 at 7:50 am
Already being ghost written—
The sequel.
THE QUARTERBACK WHISPERER II
How to Salvage a Groping, Interception-Throwing Quarterback
July 3rd, 2019 at 7:51 am
Bucs fan first and hoping Jameis can finally develop into the QB we all thought he could be. But just imagine how different this team would be without all of the maddening INTs and fumbles. How many more games would this team have won??
TOs are the single biggest problem with JW and I hope that this coaching staff can find a way to reduce them this year.
July 3rd, 2019 at 7:53 am
Jameis’ accuracy issues are mostly the long ball. His accuracy on short and medium throws is excellent. I really think he has what it takes to dink and dunk at least to deep into the playoffs. We just need to tame that bucking bronco a little bit.
Belicheat and Brady has become GOATS from dinking and dunking.
July 3rd, 2019 at 7:54 am
All of these die hard bucs fan apparently do not care about character. Why don’t we trade for Kareem Hunt and Richie Incognito. But then again thats the way the world is going, win at all cost.
July 3rd, 2019 at 7:57 am
Can we stop comparing Jameis to QB’s with a history of dragging mediocre teams to the postseason yearly?
No one wants Rodgers out of GB because of his history
Jameis has no history outside of maybe 4-5 games he’s been average to below average
I’m critical of Jameis but I’d be critical of any #1 overall pick who’s underperformed and played at best average
Time to play consistently well and put together a string of strong games and don’t put your team in a bad position weekly
July 3rd, 2019 at 8:12 am
@Pete:
Go research and post how many Ints
Marino, Farve, Both Mannings, had at this point in there career.
Most of them had Defenses and running games too meaning they werent playing from behind.
They were playing ball control, game manage, aka dink and dunk.
Some of yall hate him for “other” reasons….
Sam Bradford got 20 mil last season too btw
(Was HE worth it? Please answer I’d really like to know what you think)
11- 5
Go Bucs!!
July 3rd, 2019 at 8:18 am
I think Jameis has more talent then most QBs in the league. However , it just hasn’t quite translated onto the field. I think it has been middle of the road. Now I think arians will bring that out of him . Let’s see what that looks like at end of year. Top 15 would be great. And it’s no question the defense, kickers , and special teams and lack of run game are equal parts of the problem
Jameis downfalls off the field are done. He is married and his boy just turned 1 and looks like a mini me Jameis
His on field issues are threefold in my opinion: locking into a receiver and not going progressions; deep ball/ big plays down field ; turnovers.
1- one of the writers confirmed QBs were during drills where QBs were asked to go thru progressions looking for 2/3/4 options so arians has him thinking differently. He will continue to work on that. It seemed in past he chose his option before ball snapped and would force it to that player which leads to …
2- turnovers. Fumbling away and throwing INTs has got to stop This is still the one downfall I am worried about. Arians philosophy is no risk it no biscuit so I am still concerned here
3- deep ball. Trying to connect with little catch radius desean Jackson hurt Jameis confidence IMO. Jackson wanted the ball and was probably in his ear non stop so Jameis kept going to the well. Unfortunately , that just hurt confidence. I think bigger catch radius speed guy perriman will help get that confidence back. (And to those who say he connects with mike Evans just fine on deep balls / mike Evans is like megatron – ball doesn’t have to be perfect ..just throw it up and let him make a play )
And please stop with Aaron Rodgers comparisons. Even Tom Brady “the goat “ says the only other QBs he watches on tv is Rodgers. Cause Rodgers can make throws that no one else in nfl can make
And It’s funny that unless you worship and obsess over Jameis like “America’s QB” Then you are a hater. Get a grip people – a majority of the posters on here , want Jameis to succeed cause bucs in the playoffs.
July 3rd, 2019 at 8:24 am
@Defenserules…alll good words. Absolutely, don’t give up prematurely on many things, especially on POTENTIAL. But it’s been four years…happy to see this year for on-field stuff to prove to others what we really already know–or have this amazing revelation (doubt it). Still, add his lying/blaming others just last year on the off field stuff and what the NFL found–anyone whose ever had a job knows you don’t ever act like he was found to, and then also lie and be disloyal to those who gave you a chance, who were loyal to you. Time to take out the trash.
July 3rd, 2019 at 8:30 am
@BucAllNight…perfectly legit not to want him around our team and community for all the things the NFL found. Who gives a hoot what Bradford made last year…and we can add Glennon’s deal with the Bears. The mistakes other teams make should not be used to rationalize the Bucs. And God knows enough are made there…such as drafting a QB with questionable character to start with, only to see it coming home to roost in his first off season, and culminating in lies and deceit in his fourth season …bet the Bucs would like to have that one back. AND the other teams, starting with the Titans, and comforted in their choices and perceptions.
July 3rd, 2019 at 8:34 am
@Allbuccedup, I thnk it’s really a sliding scale. No way is Winston in the same boat as Hunt, Hardy, Rice, etc. And no way is Incognito’s stupidity with his teammate as bad as what Winston did. But add to that, Hunt and Incognito were not intended to be the face of the franchise, the pinnacle of their teams.
July 3rd, 2019 at 8:39 am
So….with all these GREAT stats, when exactly were these stats compiled…during garbage time?
Keep in mind, some games the Bucs had already lost after the first quarter/first half after X number of Jaymisses interceptions, fumbles, or the defense’s ineptness.
July 3rd, 2019 at 8:59 am
Magadude … The ‘lying’ I agree with, but not sure that Jameis was ‘blaming others’ presumably when his ‘hassle’ was uncovered. I believe he was 21 at the time, and when I look back to when I was 21 I don’t see all that much resemblance to the person I’ve (hopefully) matured into MANY years later. I don’t know Jameis & have never met him, but I’d ‘speculate’ that his problems were three-fold at the time: (1) immaturity; (2) not good at holding his liquor; and (3) a sense of ‘entitlement’ based on his athletic prowess (and probably too much ‘coddling’ by coaches, etc).
None of that excuses what he ‘presumably’ did at FSU or in Arizona (I wasn’t there & he was never prosecuted in court for his behavior). But people can change their behavior and mature. HOPEFULLY that’s the path Jameis is taking, but that’s up to him, not the Glazers, or his coaches, or us fans. Only time will tell.
In terms of his performance on the field, he’s got a lot of maturing to do there also, but he’s in a better position right now than he has been since coming into the league. Again though, it’s up to him to take advantage of this opportunity, and I for one HOPE that he does. IF he doesn’t, 2020 promises to be a potentially good year for drafting a QB. Looking forward to this year … it’s gonna be interesting.
July 3rd, 2019 at 9:01 am
the TO’s are always a killer…..
GO BUCS!!!!!
July 3rd, 2019 at 9:02 am
Completion Percentage:
Ryan Fitzpatrick: 66.7% (13th)
Jameis Winston: 64.6% (21st)
TD Percentage:
RF: 6.9% (3rd)
JW: 5.0% (19th)
Average Yards Gained per Pass Attempt:
RF: 9.6 (1st in NFL)
JW: 7.9 (10th)
Yards per Completion:
RF: 14.4 (1st in NFL)
JW:12.3 (7th)
Again, there are THREE criteria I use for good QB play:
1) TD/INT ratio greater than 2:1
2) TD percentage greater than 5.0%
3) TD% minus INT% greater than 3.0
In recent years, those three criteria are true of QBs demonstrating playoff caliber performance. Of those three, JW3 has had only last year with a TD% greater than 5%. He has never had even a single year meeting any of the other criteria.
tickrdr
July 3rd, 2019 at 9:07 am
All that and all he could muster was 23.6 points per game. To be a consistent winner in todays pass happy league I believe teams have to average no less than 25-26 points per game or have a good defense that gives up less than 23.6 ppg. Go look at most of last seasons playoff teams and you’ll notice they all averaged 25 ppg or more. Of course having a good kicker is also just as important.
July 3rd, 2019 at 9:32 am
Good analysis, Bird
Agree on all points
And for tickrdr:
no 3 is a great analytic, no question that his TO’s helped to cancel out some of the good things he has done so far.
July 3rd, 2019 at 9:37 am
Clickbait, again. Nothing to see here. JW is at the point in his career where wins are all that matter.
July 3rd, 2019 at 9:41 am
While Jameis “Stats” Winston may look good on paper, on the field is a different story. You all can knock Mariotta all you want as trash, he has a playoff win, what does JW have? Winston needs to learn to manage the game clock and win games. Aaron Rogers wins games and their fans aren’t going to say anything. Jameis doesn’t win games. That’s why people loved Fitz, he came out and won games until he didn’t. If Jameis can start winning games, people will be fine. He doesn’t win though. He can have the best stats, nobody cares if you aren’t winning.
July 3rd, 2019 at 9:42 am
@DR…he blamed the Uber driver for being confused as to who was next to him. Unsat.
July 3rd, 2019 at 9:43 am
@Bob in Valrico:
Absolutely! That is why I feel you need BOTH a good TD% to score enough points, and a low INT% to have enough opportunities (drives for your team to end up with points) and not easy drives (short field opportunities for the other team) for the opponents.
For example, in the last 6 games of last year, “careful” Jameis doesn’t score enough points, and “gunslinger” Jameis has too many turnovers.
tickrdr
BTW: I also agree with Bird’s comments about “locking onto his receiver” and not going through the full progression.
July 3rd, 2019 at 9:48 am
@DR…a five year old knows not to grab a complete stranger where he did…you can take the PC /nice approach talking about about maturity, just being drunk, etc, or you can be frank. He is lucky she didn’t call the cops (guilt or not), as we’d not be on this topic at all. I’m pretty sure our timelines/experiences may be close, but when I was 21, I was flying a three-ship special operations in the Med Sea.
I’ll when almost Ameicans are five years old…they know not to put your hands on certain things…and the vast majority of those don’t do it. C’mon, you can’t rationalize this part of it.
July 3rd, 2019 at 9:51 am
All these numbers and no one has pointed out he is 100% completions to the opposing defense! 100%. His first pass was for a touchdown….for the other team. With all that said, I still love the kid. I’m willing to give him this season to justify a new contract.
July 3rd, 2019 at 9:56 am
@DR…final note…you say “But people can change their behavior and mature.” Yes, the worst people in society can change their ways, be reformed, etc. That’s fantastic. But that does not mean they are entitled or deserve to be put back into the positions/enjoyments and privilege that they had before. I think Winston has a bright future in the NFL if he has cleaned up his act. Added to the baggage he already has and the fact few if any want his endorsements on anything, he’s not going to be the face of this (or any) franchise as was intended–and as was needed/wanted. Given his hot and cold on-field body of work, he is more likely destined I think for being a top backup or bridge QB for someone at $8-10M for someone, somewhere. I think he’s our bridge QB right now in fact. And I don’t blame him if he doesn’t like that, but that is what he created for himself. Okay, signing off for the day.
July 3rd, 2019 at 9:57 am
Magadude…ya wanna know why there isn’t fans all over this site bringing up Winston’s “off the field” crap?
Answer: Cause no one cares anymore as much as you do.
When the Uber story broke…there were fans on here for days bashing Winston for it. Where did they all go? Answer : They don’t care anymore.
Everything you bring up was already discussed at the time the Uber story broke. You’ve not only beat the dead horse, but dismembered it by now.
July 3rd, 2019 at 10:04 am
Maga is obsessed with defaming Winston’s character and convincing people he’s right and a smart guy. He literally posts on every article with jameis in the header. He then proceeds to repeat his same theory about how he has character flaws that people will never get over his past mistakes. Dude, most of us are regulars. We know your stance by now and it’s annoying. It’s also ignorant. We get it, the greasers in the 50s wouldn’t take too kindly to jameis’s off the field behavior. I know you want to meet him up for a brawl after the Friday night sock hop but he’s our qb and most of us support him.
You’re gonna get blasted if you’re wrong. We’ll see.
July 3rd, 2019 at 10:09 am
@Buc1987…you win the award for the most ignorant post of day. Out here.
July 3rd, 2019 at 10:14 am
Winston is a perfect example of why the franchise tag exists. Will the Bucs use it? Especially with a new CBA around the corner? That would be the smart play, but we are talking about the Bucs here.
July 3rd, 2019 at 10:19 am
Training camp is coming.
July 3rd, 2019 at 10:37 am
Makes you wonder why so many fans were in love with mike glennon who was pure garbage but love by these horrible fans? Nope it is pretty clear lol fans love dink and dunk offense as long as completion % stats are high and int’s are low it doesn’t matter how bad the offense is they can say they have a franchise quarterback. I hope he signs a big fat contract to sit back and laugh at all the haters have a meltdown themselves.
July 3rd, 2019 at 10:40 am
The only stat in football that really matters are WINS. Win, and these conversations go away. For every “good” stat, there’s a contradictory “poor” stat. This could go on forever.
At the end of the day, if there’s a ‘W’ on the board, does it matter whether he threw for 300 yards or 3?! The QB is just ONE guy. It’s a team sport and the best way to win is complementary football:
Balanced ‘O’
Good ‘D’
Solid ST
No turnovers
Good coaching
And yes, it really is that simple!
The Bucs are not going to turn their back on a #1 overall pick so, you might as well get over it. He’ll get his opportunity. It is his to lose.
July 3rd, 2019 at 10:54 am
Buc1987,
I care:
1. He lied to the team
2. He got suspended
3. Next suspension could be a year/banishment
4. After the college fiascos, one would think Jameis would be smarter to not go get drunk with Darby and a third party whose serving time currently for rape.
5. If you want to go have fun, then hire a chaperone. He has the means, but continues to exercise poor decision making
I just want to see my Bucs win, and Jameis’ suspension torpedoed our season. Damned if Fitz won, which he did and Jameis put too much pressure on himself and folded, and damned if fits didn’t win bc we’d be out of the hunt quickly.
It’s time, year 5, for the 2015 #1 overall pick to shine and be a game changer. If not, draft a rookie-pay then peanuts and spend the salary cap on other positions, just don’t let licht decide FA.
July 3rd, 2019 at 10:57 am
Race to 10- Not for nothing, but the dink and dunk of the west coast offense won the 49ers quite a few titles. Just sayin’!
July 3rd, 2019 at 10:59 am
With all of that said, I will root for Jameis and rock his jersey on sundays. I remain skeptical that he is our franchise QB, but hope for the best. Go Bucs!
July 3rd, 2019 at 11:00 am
@Buccernutter…no defamation from me. You aren’t aware of what that is, are you? You can BS some folks, but not most, and not me. Aren’t you the same guy who said the Uber stuff was all “heresay” (LOL…your word) without a “court of law”? (which means you also don’t understand heresy…or much else). You can blast away…I don’t care, and it doesn’t matter to me if this is annoying to you. That’s not a consideration with me. Anything I post is my opinion and/or stating facts…what you attribute it to is only your problem. You should not keep me in your head so much. But, every time Joe writes an article about Winston’s future and in this case, a “war,” my posts are fair game. That’s what it’s about. Enjoy.
July 3rd, 2019 at 11:16 am
Bucsfanman … Excellent 10:40 post. I think more & more Bucs’ fans ‘get it’ … we need a reasonably balanced TEAM to win. I think BA has us headed in that direction; just might take a little while to get it all to gel.
@SteveK … “It’s time, year 5, for the 2015 #1 overall pick to shine and be a game changer. If not, draft a rookie-pay then peanuts and spend the salary cap on other positions, just don’t let licht decide FA.” Pretty much how I see it also Steve, although if it’s ‘close’ Bucs MIGHT franchise tag Jameis for 2020 AND draft a QB.
July 3rd, 2019 at 11:24 am
@Magadude … “I think Winston has a bright future in the NFL if he has cleaned up his act. Given his hot and cold on-field body of work, he is more likely destined I think for being a top backup or bridge QB for someone at $8-10M for someone, somewhere. I think he’s our bridge QB right now in fact.”
A couple of big IFs in there, but IF Jameis improves his play, becomes more consistent on the field AND ‘walks the straight & narrow’ there’s a decent chance the Glazers will offer him a 2nd contract. My ‘guess’ on that would be 3 years at about what he’s making now (whether Jameis accepts it or opts to move on is his choice). The BIG contract would come at the end of THAT 3-year contract. But IF he doesn’t improve, it’s all a moot point anyways … Bucs will move on.
July 3rd, 2019 at 11:46 am
Oh look here he is again. Alzheimer’s is getting to you as I never utilized the word heresy in any context that you evidently misconstrued. Lol. Making up things and deflecting I see.
Also you are defaming his character as he has done nothing wrong in the past 3 years since the incident other than what you highlighted 47x by now, stating he lied to the team, which again wasn’t proven. I don’t get why you’re so sensitive about it. I’d say grow up but you’re over the hill and it may be too late.
You certainly wrote a long rebuttal for not caring what I say. I’m not the only one annoyed by your ignorance as you can see by being called out nearly every time you post something negative about jameis. Which at this point is daily. You’re just not the brightest guy and you certainly have a unique opinion of how athletes are perceived. Like many have said, a lot of jameis’s prior issues have been forgotten. And don’t worry I’m really not that annoyed it’s just clear you’re new around here and spend a ton of time talking bad about our qb. It’s just weird. Lol. Not that serious.
July 3rd, 2019 at 11:50 am
fanman,
Steve Young and Joe Montana constantly went deep to Taylor and Rice. Also they had Roger Craig in the backfield and one of the best offensive lines in the game. Sooo, there is that. But I here you, Jameis has to take what is given him, However, Dirk’s offense did not allow the RB to leak out as an outlet, they were required to stay in the backfield and block probably to save our QBs life. 4 vertical offense is Dirk’s baby, Jameis (and Fitz) did the best they could with that ridiculous out-dated offense.
July 3rd, 2019 at 11:51 am
*hear^^
July 3rd, 2019 at 12:34 pm
A reckoning is coming to the sheep and local media!!!! all those that gave the gm a pass so that the QB would not be evaluated, but rather find a coach to “fix” JW3, and try to patch something together to salvage all the mistakes!!!!!!!!! There will be a narrative from the failures in the front office and coaches that will say that they are close, and they just need more time to patch together something better, instead of doing what needs to be done, and that is a Full Rebuild!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And all the excuses that the qb cannot produce because of bad defense, Rb and O-line, then that is even more the reason to dump jw3 instead of the almost 30 million price tag and rebuild!!!!!!!!!!!!!
2019 will reveal answers to the sheep, that the ‘real” fans already know!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
July 3rd, 2019 at 1:02 pm
Buccernutter Says:
June 14th, 2019 at 5:31 pm
“…You keep blabbering about corroborating evidence. Well that’s true but it did not clarify guilt in a court of law and until then it’s heresy.”
You should also learn what “defaming” means.
He didn’t lie? What was his position for what seems about 2 years? And when it broke, his words:
“The story falsely accuses me of making inappropriate contact with this driver. I believe the driver was confused as to the number of passengers in the car and who was sitting next to her. The accusation is false…”
And the NFL’s conclusion: “…the investigation had concluded that Winston violated the NFL Personal Conduct Policy by touching the driver in an inappropriate and sexual manner without her consent…”
You can take the opinion that the NFL investigation was wrong and that Winston was out of his mind and doesn’t remember…but I don’t think so. Sure, …maybe he told the team something different than what he put out in public.
I don’t think that’s true either. I think when the report was out, that was pretty much it.
Your memory is as bad as your deductive reasoning. You have a real bent for telling me what everybody thinks (you are the smart one for knowing that…wow, impressive!) when in reality, you can’t even remember what YOU think. LOL. Have a nice 4th.
July 3rd, 2019 at 1:20 pm
Ah man you really don’t have a life. Went back into the vault for this one huh? Lmao. Even weirder.
Just like I said. You misconstrued the context. It’s contrary to popular belief that he was guilty given that he wasn’t convicted in court. Therefore it’s not proven and your opinion is heresy. Look I spelled it right too. Weren’t you just accusing me of not doing so? Lmao.
I’m aware of defaming. Are you really that dumb? He’s been great in the community and has an excellent reputation but you spewing negative headlines is defaming his character. Come on man. Google is in your reach.
You put a ton of merit into the NFL’s investigation. Someone had to fall on the sword. Given they couldn’t prove either way it was an attempt to protect the shield thus why he didn’t get 6 games.
You got your opinion and that’s great. I’m just saying it’s one you won’t shut up about and the redundancy is old.
Your opinion is so jaded that you can’t even perceive context correctly. You pretty much made up what I meant. It’s okay though you are getting old so you gotta make things up for you to believe in your head when missing on points. I stand by what I said, you just don’t understand what it meant cuz you’re too busy having a hissy fit about jameis’s decisions three years ago and spending all hours of your retirement trying to sway others.
Good luck remembering anything in a few years. Or even better, good luck cheering for your QB to fail.
July 3rd, 2019 at 1:23 pm
Ironic you’re preaching my memory but just completely made up that I spelled heresy wrong.
Like I said, you’re not the brightest guy.
July 3rd, 2019 at 1:27 pm
Your opinion that he is guilty is profoundly at odds with what is generally accepted (innocent until proven guilty). The literal definition. Come on old timer. Catch up.
July 3rd, 2019 at 1:58 pm
Uh…”innocent until proven guilty” regards a court of law. Winston was never charged with a crime. He is not innocent or guilty because he was never charged. I do think he did what the NFL found him to have done.
If one gets into a fight and kicks the stuff out of someone, and there are never any charges, that doesn’t mean the fight and end result didn’t happen. People violate actual laws at work and face diciplinary action commonly…like theft. The employer could call the cops and press charges…or not. People also violate policies that may be against an employer, but may or may not be against the law. The employer could just discipline on its own from small to large, up to firing the employee.
You appear to be saying since there were no courts, he did not nothing wrong, and try to gaff it off as not that serious. That’s where we disagree. But you can’t seem to leave it there–trying to bring the poster into it.
So next time Joe puts up and article, logically getting at the same questions/issue from yet another angle, he still gets my opinion. You don’t like it, too bad. And Winston is unfortuneatly “our QB” and I’ve never cheered for him to fail. Another thing you don’t comprehend.
July 3rd, 2019 at 2:00 pm
Buc1987….you are wrong sir. I do. And so do tens of thousands of others in Tampa Bay. He did some awful crapola…..but I think the biggest issue with his team mates? HE LIED TO THEM.
July 3rd, 2019 at 2:06 pm
I still want to know why MAGADUDE told NDOG ‘to go the zoo’ the other day. What’s with the screen name MAGA? Someone is the embarrassment of the community but it’s not Jameis. Btw you need to do some more research on Incognito, that guy really is a POS.
July 3rd, 2019 at 2:22 pm
Um thats my point. You think!
Your example was so far off and ridiculous it’s not even worth addressing.
That’s not what I’m saying. You’re full of conjecture at this point. It’s hilarious. Never stated he did nothing wrong. Just not to the extent your arguing for. It wasn’t proven. Period. But you put a lot of weight into NFL investigations so that’s your ignorance. So be it.
Oh now so I don’t comprehend fully? Lol. Okay man. Repeat what I say back to me funny guy.
You may not cheer for him to fail but in your own words you would have dumped him a while ago. You also remind us daily. Hard to perceive you have any sort of optimism in him.
You just want to be right.
July 3rd, 2019 at 2:32 pm
Holier than thou coming thru as usual. Numbers debunk your position so you spout morality. Where is the proof of any of that garbage? There is none. Its your opinion. Its conjecture. Its shade that you hope (much like a 7th grader) if you repeat it enough, it becomes true. Our QB has not disgraced anyone. Everyone (even you) makes mistakes and I’m sure he has made them. But throwing around words like “disgrace” without any proof is really garbage. Justify it however you want. Do it in a mirror and see if it applies to yourself. If you can look yourself in the mirror and not throw some shade back at yourself, then keep talking. We all (ALL) know you can’t truthfully do that, because we are all human. Recommendation: Climb off your high horse or come up with some proof. Argue fumbles, interceptions, completion percentages or win/loss because those are all debatable. The rest is just a bunch of self-righteous garbage. Go Bucs!
July 3rd, 2019 at 2:34 pm
simply put there are:
Bucs fans – those who just want to see the Bucs succeed regardless of who is qb and is willing to see the Bucs do what they must to get a WINNER!
Jamies Fans – doesn’t want the Bucs to have any success unless JW is their qb.. mostly spewing their propaganda such as ‘best in Bucs history’ or ‘there is none better to replace him’ as if he is the greatest of all time… [delusional] {Loser mentality}
No wonder as to why fans are bailing on this miserable team by the droves…
Ray-Jay may never be filled this supportive fans!
July 3rd, 2019 at 2:41 pm
Winston actually completed 67% of passes to all players not named MeSean Jackson. The truth won’t set the WDS simpletons free though.
July 3rd, 2019 at 2:55 pm
Agreed…not until two things happen. Winston is GONE, and the Bucs start winning. And as long as he’s here, they aren’t winning. They may SAY they have his back, but…his team mates don’t have his back. He lied to them. They don’t forget that crap. And I absolutely LOVE how his defenders on here go on major rants attacking those of us who don’t appreciate what he has done. Defend him groping. Defend him for all the other stuff. Go ahead. Defend it.
July 3rd, 2019 at 3:03 pm
@Reach87…everyone makes mistakes. Yup. But most people in their whole lives don’t do what the NFL found Winston to have done. Period. Can he be redeemed? Sure, read what I said earlier. Should be be restored as the centerpiece of this organization’s image? Oh, heck no. Proof he did it: That’s what the NFL found. Not for me or you. But the finding is that his behavior was disagraceful. Simple.
July 3rd, 2019 at 3:16 pm
Not a bust but not elite
If he was chick he would be a 6
July 3rd, 2019 at 3:17 pm
“It wasn’t proven.” Yeah, it was the NFL that found that he did what what was alleged. Proof enough apparently for everyone who is a stakeholder.
“But you put a lot of weight into NFL investigations so that’s your ignorance.”
No, not ignorance. It’s realizing the NFL team of lawyers did what seems to be exhaustive and the fact the NFLPA didn’t really sqawk at all…and Winston didn’t say anything…is a good indicator to me it was bad enough for all (NFL image and perhaps Winston’s image) to negotiate down to three games from six because they didn’t need another PR fiasco. It’not unreasonable to follow all that is put out on it, including Winston’s tweets, and conclude the NFL was correct. The corroboration of records including electronic, would be interesting. Cameras? Recordings? Only cell phone call and text records? Doubt it in today’s world.
July 3rd, 2019 at 3:28 pm
@Stanglassman…Ever heard the expression “gone to the zoo?” I said looks like Ndog went to the zoo because of his funny (crazy) comments a few comments up the page from mine. It means he finally went crazy, lost his mind. I did not tell him to go to the zoo.
Yes, I agree Incognito is a rotten guy from all I know. What he did was wrong, unacceptable, intolerable. But as I said, still not as bad as what the NFL found Winston to have done. Neither of those two were charged with any crime. Doesn’t make it okay. At the same time, nothing like Rice and Hardy. My point is it’s a sliding scale. There are various levels of bad.
July 3rd, 2019 at 3:28 pm
They hired investigators. Not lawyers LMAO 😂.
Yes ignorance. Exactly what I just said cuz you nor I know the truth. You just made an educated guess and that’s fine.
Either way you keep talking about the incident itself, 3 years later. This is more about how you are unwilling to move on, not the opinions of “nfl lawyers”.
And no, that’s not proof enough. It’s called damage control.
Key words are “to me”. Your opinion you’re entitled to but clearly not educated enough on.
It’s not irrational to conclude the NFL wasn’t correct. But they didn’t have proof it didn’t occur. Goes both ways.
July 3rd, 2019 at 3:35 pm
Jameis will be great this year. Can’t wait
July 3rd, 2019 at 3:37 pm
@Stanglassman
Ndog Says:
June 30th, 2019 at 5:11 pm
“You know let’s just cut Winston that should round out our team to completion by making our passing game as horrible as the rest of the team from the previous few seasons.” His whole post…the sarcasm was genuinely funny. My response was: “Ndog’s gone to the zoo.” No idea what you mean with the rest of your comment.
July 3rd, 2019 at 3:56 pm
Here he goes again. Laughable to compare Joes crush aginst guys with super bowel rings. Rogers was hurt last year and Rothlesburger had all kinds of team issues. So lets compare their down years to Jameis’s best year and only talk about certain stats. The guy couldn’t beat out Fitzpatrick! Being a qb is not all about physical gifts. Its about composure in the pocket, making good decisions under pressure and making them quickly. Then there is accuracy and if you watch the dam game you can see how bad he is. National media has been saying this since college. Our receivers are among the best in the NFL according to PFF at contested balls. Why do you think that is? Its because he throws so many jump balls and receivers are constantly fighting for the ball instead of being lead by the QB.
July 3rd, 2019 at 4:08 pm
Not counting Steve Young, he’s literally the best QB in team history.
Last year he was #4 in QBr – and if you remove that abortion of a game in Cinny he’s #1.
The offense was the best in team history last year, in both yards AND points.
To any dummies complaining about Winston, you’re just that, a dummy.
July 3rd, 2019 at 4:21 pm
I’d take brad johnson over Winston
July 3rd, 2019 at 5:54 pm
It’s becoming a waste of time to come on this website and have a battle of wits with a bunch of unarmed opponents when debating Winston. A lot of these posters will either fade away or change their names after this year. Gonna be fun to watch who does what. There have already been numerous ones who were anti Winston who have faded like a fart in a wind storm. Can’t wait to see the next generation of tools go bye bye.
July 3rd, 2019 at 6:10 pm
Jameis has done well. Number 1 pick well? Not so sure. He has made mistakes at the most inopportune times. I think a good amount of the problems are attributable to Koetter and his clown coaches. Jameis is going to cost more than his worth and the Bucs need to move up and draft Trevor Lawrence in 2021.
July 3rd, 2019 at 6:15 pm
Please provide evidence that Jameis ‘lied to the team’.
July 3rd, 2019 at 6:27 pm
Magadude. You are a relatively bright guy. You are wallowing in the mud with cretins.
July 3rd, 2019 at 6:54 pm
Does anyone think that a good gm with six years of horrible coaching would still look like a good gm?
If yoy answer yes you are full of sh!t
July 3rd, 2019 at 7:01 pm
Just looked at Spottrack for salary cap imfo. They have Jameis valued at 22.6
million for three years. If Jameis comes around ,Glazzers have already forked out close to that amount. My thinking is that they will have a number in mind, and if Contract demands are too high, they will tell Jameis to test the market.
The best thing for Jameis is to sign a team friendly contract. He will benefit in the stats department,IMO. The big catch radius and tenacious receivers are just what he needs and a big reason completion % is improving.
July 3rd, 2019 at 7:17 pm
Should we want more then an a average starter?
I would love to have a top 10 Qb
July 3rd, 2019 at 8:50 pm
@Alvin. Good point. Cretins are out.
July 3rd, 2019 at 9:01 pm
I certainly hope I’m never a guy that uses the word “cretins”.
Those are the dude’s at home during the party cuz they weren’t invited on blogs all night. Oh wait…
July 3rd, 2019 at 11:07 pm
You forget Joe, the people who don’t like Jameis are the same people who howl about stats ruining football. They go by the “eye test” only.
July 3rd, 2019 at 11:32 pm
Whew…. Quite a battle there boys. In the end its perspective.
Speaking of.which, situational football trumps stats and winning trumps situational football. So in the spirit of.stats, we were behind far too often and JW racked up a fair amount of stats while the opponent was waiting for the clock to run out on defense….
In BA I Trust!
July 4th, 2019 at 2:40 am
Bucnutter,
“They hired investigators. Not lawyers LMAO 😂.”
Lisa Freil, was in charge of the “investigation” of Winston.
Lisa M. Friel is a New York City lawyer and prosecutor. She formerly served as chief of the sex crimes unit in the Manhattan District Attorney’s office.
While I agree with you that this incident is long past and any evaluation of winston , imo, should or could be strictly based on his play. To not understand the magnitude of an NFL investigation and more to the point the fact that the both the league and players unions , management, consists of almost entirely of lawyers is not something to plant your flag on.
Additionally, in the justice system the prosecution is NOT the people who investigate. Evidence is collected by non lawyers and given to the prosecutor who then determines if the evidence is sufficient to successfully prosecute the defendant.
So this means, the NFL didn’t resort to an unqualified or some form of evidence collection that was not lesser than what a criminal court would have required. If you consider the leagues adversarial relationship with the players union, you’d quickly and undoubtedly conclude that the investigation into winston and any player for that matter has to be beyond that of a required criminal prosecution because the players unions is just waiting for a shoddy investigation or ruling in which they could appeal . A successful appealite ruling could be the actual end of the vast disciplinary powers the league now controls.
As far as terms like proven, since you nor Maga or anyone has seen the evidence collected by the NFL, both of you are not in possession of the material facts. Words like proven, if used in the legal system is a term only applied after a hearing or trail or plea. Thus it’s use in this case is completely inappropriate. Because this was not nor was it ever the basis for a criminal complaint.
Civil court is different and it was the basis of a civil complaint. In that court system, Winston did settle for an undisclosed financial sum. I wouldn’t argue for or against guilt in that arena because a settlement isn’t always nor infrequently the reason for someone deciding to settle. However, if winston wanted a day in court to vindicate himself of such charges He was given the opportunity to have his day in court and fight against those charges. And no the NFL could NOT require or even ask him to forfeit his right to contest the charge in a court of law.
Bottom line, it’s old news unless another incident occurs. Then this becomes pertinent.
Which is what I believe is part of the point Maga is attempting, unsuccessfully, to make.
I believe it’s better to stick to the field and remember that we picked winston will eyes wide open and once that pick was made, we cant or shouldn’t as fans attempt to turn back time and parse the issue another time. It’s past that point.
He’s our guy, our QB until he’s not. So why not support the man and if that’s to much for some, then damn it support the player.
July 4th, 2019 at 2:52 am
Anonymous,
I’ve read many people claim Fitzpatrick sucked and winston is superior. They’re not looking at stats. But the eye test and they’re not wrong but it’s not based on the stat line. So it works both ways and certainly isn’t exclusively a commonality among one group of fans.
July 4th, 2019 at 3:11 am
JJbucsfan,
Good points except, koetters offense doesn’t allow backs to leak out of the backfield. That’s not at all true. If you would like I’d be happy to link a game or two weeks time points to demonstrate that the backs were frequently in routes , or leaking , if they had no blocking assignment.
As far as ridiculously outdated 4 vertical offense, that’s a laugh. Seriously though it shows how out of date or out of touch your are with the league. Also, it’s just wrong to confuse the schemes or generalize to such an extent as to make definitions so all encompassing as to negate the difference between systems that conceptually may appear similar but in reality are vastly different.
July 4th, 2019 at 7:30 am
Buc realist two thumbs up
July 4th, 2019 at 12:06 pm
Anyone with MAGA as part of their screen name is all I need to know. You hate JW because of his issues but your president is accused by 16 women of sexual assault, bribed a porn star he banged to stay quiet after they he banged her while his wife was caring for his infant son. You are ok with that but that black QB needs to be banished from the NFL. You are the very definition of a hypocrite.
July 4th, 2019 at 12:20 pm
D1
Oh I agree. I guess my context is just that he was not convicted. Regardless of the merit the NFL investigation possesses.
You seem to agree, this issue is outdated and at this point nobody is certain of what occurred. It seems the only material fact they had was the cell phone pings and he was in the car during the alleged incident.
Either way I have moved on as it seems you have. Maga is just wasting time.
July 4th, 2019 at 12:22 pm
And wasn’t Lisa freil hired to investigate and not prosecute?
July 4th, 2019 at 1:18 pm
MAGA, do you support Trump?
July 4th, 2019 at 4:38 pm
Bucnutter,
Totally agree. Why some fans want to continually rehash and rehash the same stuff is beyond me. Earlier, I posted Maga and basically said he’s not an owner
So why is he worried about a cheaper brand. Ie jameis winston is bringing the bucs team brand down profit wise. I say who the he’ll cares about that it’s the owners responsiblility and they are the ones writing his checks. Be a fan.
About Lisa. She was appointed by the commissioner to lead the investigation.
Prosecution is a very specific word and , in this case, if you drop the word prosecutor, but retain many of the same functions then you can say that she did act like, key word, like, a presenter.
Bucnut, I don’t mean to split hairs here but the fact is that the league runs the investigation. It’s end goal isn’t prosecution, it’s damage control. So that in and of itself shifts what the investigation focuses on and how the evidence is presented to the player.
Im sure you remember the ray rice incident. Lisa F. was specifically hired by the league to head up any player investigation that involved a player and a woman. Yeah I know it’s a wide definition but that’s just why she was hired.
She has years as a criminal courts prosecutor specializing in these type of cases.
July 4th, 2019 at 10:12 pm
Everything will work out the way it is meant to with #3. No point defending or bashing him at this point. This is his do or die season.
But, I did get a chuckle that we have to defend him by saying he’s not Dilfer, McCown, or Mettenberger. Awesome, we got a winner there!
Ultimately, it comes down to him being on the field for a full 16, not turning the ball over, and someone competent realizing he cannot be throwing 35-40+ times a game.
July 5th, 2019 at 12:19 am
Marcus Sorriota is garbage. Jameis is here to stay! Go get em Famous Jameis!
July 5th, 2019 at 4:42 pm
D1
💯