Understanding The O.J. Selection
July 9th, 2018
Time offers wisdom.
Joe has to admit even to this day, it was a head-scratcher.
The Bucs had all sorts of holes on the roster entering the 2017 NFL draft. Defensive end, anyone? Running back?
Already having a guy they developed into one of the better tight ends in the game, who led the NFL in touchdowns among tight ends in 2016, Joe thought the last position the Bucs would draft for in the first round was tight end.
Yet the Bucs did just that, ignoring running back and defensive end to select O.J. Howard.
Now Joe isn’t typing to mock Howard. Dude is going to be a freaking stud. Talented AF. But that evening, Joe wasn’t the only guy very surprised.
Cam Brate, as he explained on an edition of the “Ira Kaufman Podcast” earlier this spring, said he was at a watering hole when he saw who the Bucs selected. At his position.
He quickly got a call from Dirk Koetter who told Brate not to worry, he wasn’t going anywhere.
Speaking last week on SiriusXM NFL Radio while appearing on “The Blitz,” co-hosted by Brady Quinn and Brian (not George) Custer, Brate said that as time has passed, he not only understands why the Bucs selected Howard, he’s happy as can be to have Howard as a teammate.
“The NFL has shifted more towards having different personnel in the game,” Brate said. “Different guys who can do different things, not just one tight end, two receivers and a running back.”
In other words, the NFL has turned into a match-up league. If teams believe they can expose some linebackers with two tight ends to get a favorable matchup, that’s what will happen.
Of course, a team must have two tight ends capable of exposing a mismatch. And the Bucs are now one of those teams with Brate and Howard.
July 9th, 2018 at 12:18 am
Best player on the bucs draft board. They reached in the 2016 draft to fill holes in the secondary and kicking game and that got us nowhere…the only people that weren’t shouting for oj Howard last April were shouting for dalvin cook. Jason Licht couldn’t risk passing on the squeaky clean tight end for a running back who dropped all the way to the second round because of injuries and conduct in ncaa…dalvin looks good, but still not sure if he can play more than a few games without breaking
July 9th, 2018 at 12:44 am
Do anyone remember that Cam was cut and brought back! It seems that it is under estimated that Jameis, yea I said it Jameis, worked with Cam and Hump a lot.
The one’s who is trying to run JW out of town better realize, yes Cam can catch probably from any QB but…the “chemistry” between him and Jameis maybe under realized. Those guys that was with Jaboo from the beginning put in a lot of off the clock practice…they now have more than ball skills, they have undeniable “chemistry”.
Cam those guys in his circle knw JW better than any of you who post here…they hang with him in various environments…so who they’re gonna trust, the man they know or the man the media and outsiders try to make him out to be!
I read where people here try to reflect they’re opinon about Jameis on to what they think the guys in the locker room feel about him…when they DON’T KNOW NOTHING BUT WHAT THEY’VE READ about him!
It is left for them to trust and verify!
REPUTATION IS WHAT PEOPLE, THINK ABOUT YOU…CHARACTER IS WHAT YOUR MAKER KNOW ABOUT YOU!
Go Bucs!
July 9th, 2018 at 2:31 am
@Nole4Jaboo
I disagree, Winston does not define Brate. Brate has done it all on his own merit through hard work and dedication and would be a huge asset to any QB.
July 9th, 2018 at 3:25 am
Leave it to an FSU homer to make this about Ted Bundy i mean Jameiz Winston. Of course JW has chemistry with those 2 they run short routes and JW is only somewhat accurate within the 1st 15 yards. Get us a real QB and watch this offense really open up not just 1 or 2 players. Nick Foles will be on our roster by mid season pr the new coaching staff will be drafting their QB next year.
July 9th, 2018 at 3:26 am
Leave it to an FSU homer to make this about Ted Bundy i mean Jameiz Winston. Of course JW has chemistry with those 2 they run short routes and JW is only somewhat accurate within the 1st 15 yards. Get us a real QB and watch this offense really open up not just 1 or 2 players. Nick Foles will be on our roster by mid season pr the new coaching staff will be drafting their QB next year.
July 9th, 2018 at 4:19 am
Utter nonsense, Howard was a steal at that position, screw need, he was a gift that fell into the Bucs lap. And they didn’t botch or overthink the pick.
Now can America’s Choir Boy get him the ball before he turns it over…again?
Can Koetter actually game plan to use 2 TE sets effectively?
Those are headscrarchers.
July 9th, 2018 at 6:32 am
I can’t think of a pick at 19 that has been that obvious…..or at most any other pick…..maybe GMC at 3 or Warren Sapp….
Other than the question of need and we need so many positions…the player was a no-brainer.
Keep in mind Cam Brate is an UDFA…..so we had little invested in him. He’s a first round pick now.
July 9th, 2018 at 6:52 am
Joe, can’t understand why you did not get this pick when it happened. As you said, Howard is an elite stud and he’s already proved to be that in year one. There are only a small percentage of these player types each year that are truly can’t miss. He was definitely one of those.
Correct me if I’m wrong but I don’t recall any other can’t miss players in positions of need during that draft.
July 9th, 2018 at 7:05 am
A young QB’s best friend is a good TE! Jameis had (has????) two of them….and two elite WR’s, and now even (possibly) a strong running game. Even our O-line should be improved. In fact the only question mark now is the QB himself!
But as for OJ Howard, we saw flashes of what he can be last season, and he and Brate can be the most dangerous pair of TE weapons in the league. Our 2-TE sets will cause opposing defenses fits for years to come…..as long as we have a QB that can use them.
July 9th, 2018 at 7:31 am
Drafting OJ filled two major needs, Another pass catching weapon and a key blocker on the O-line!!!!!!!!!! Even with Brate, JW3 struggled this past year when he zeroed in on Brate on third downs and redzone and defenses were prepared after watching tape!!!!!!!!
It was the right call now and back then!!!!!!! having a good one dimensional player should not stop a team from upgrading!!!!!!!
July 9th, 2018 at 8:06 am
Anonymous
Agree with you.
QB’s like Brady, Rogers, etc. make the players around them look better. Winston needs the players around him to make Him look better.
July 9th, 2018 at 8:08 am
I certainly understand and appreciate that this group is divided on Jameis Winston. The debates have been raging and a lot of issues have gotten conflated in this debate. Maybe we should review what we are talking about here and it’s NOT love or hate of Jameis.
1. Jameis on field play irrespective of whatever he has done off field. This is a hot debate on it’s own. IMHO Jameis COULD still become a franchise QB. His talent level does not bother me at least…it’s his decisions and ball security but perhaps those can be fixed.
2. Off the field. And that divides into a couple of camps as well. Those who think Jameis has issues with respecting women and those who think he’s now been set up twice by gold digging women. Again I understand that debate but it’s not the one that has made me give up on Jameis.
3. And so for some who like me believe Jameis is talented enough to play the position but is simply too untrustworthy there is another problem. Why was he out drunk out of his gourd with Darby and a convicted rapist. How freaking stupid was that and how much did it betray anybody…including fans who love the Bucs.
And so we get it. Some here are upset because they feel Jameis has abused women. Some think the women took advantage of innocent Jameis. They point out it’s all speculation. OK let’s stipulate that.
It’s not just speculation that Jameis almost lost his career before it started due to the Kinsman rape allegations. He beat those but it took a toll. When combined with the FHITP during that same period…it made a lot of us choke hard and believe he was simply acting out and very…very…very IMMATURE.
Now I realize it is simply character and personality traits that have driven Jameis. The 3AM rendezvous with a rapist and a major witness in his own rape trial just a little more than a year later….he has NO judgement or even a lick of common sense. The lying and coverup of all that may be even worse. He has LIED to us THIS YEAR!!!
Some want Jameis to day no matter what…some want him gone because they don’t think he has the talent…and others like me want him gone because I simply no longer trust his judgement as solid enough to be the face of our team.
July 9th, 2018 at 8:19 am
I don’t know, who should we of drafted at that spot that wouldn’t be considered a reach. This year i would of drafted James and Guice, instead Vea and Jones. Vea wasn’t a position of need. I think Guice is a 3 down back
July 9th, 2018 at 8:45 am
Joe can’t understand how you can’t understand.
How many wins did OJ save the Bucs, two? Maybe?
How badly did ignoring the running game cost the Bucs? It damn near got a coaching staff fired.
July 9th, 2018 at 8:49 am
#weapons4winston,..no one remembers???
July 9th, 2018 at 8:51 am
BrianBucs Says
“QB’s like Brady, Rogers, etc. make the players around them look better. Winston needs the players around him to make Him look better.”
One has 17 years in the league. The other has 13 years in the league. Those years include plenty of developmental time.
Hardly a fair comparison.
July 9th, 2018 at 8:54 am
Joe Says
“How badly did ignoring the running game cost the Bucs? It damn near got a coaching staff fired.”
Okay, Joe, I think that’s a bit of a stretch. There is zero evidence that they were on the hot seat. That was all speculation that ended up not panning out.
I feel for you, Joe. I really do. You have been beating the drum for a great RB for years now, and we always came away from the draft without one. Hopefully this year will turn out different, but if it doesn’t, I suspect you’ll want one in the first round next year as well.
Assuming we don’t need a QB, I might be right there with you.
July 9th, 2018 at 8:57 am
@Joe
so a running back that did not last 3 games was the answer????? How many games would the three game running back would have won?????????
July 9th, 2018 at 9:00 am
George Says
“Vea wasn’t a position of need.”
Actually it was. We needed a good DT next to McCoy. We ended up with a beast that will play for a decade.
Bolstering the lines is far more important than the RB position. It would have done no good getting a RB if we could not block for him. The addition of a center and moving Marpet will allow for just that.
Licht did the right thing taking Vea, because he is the ultimate run stopper and he tends to collapse the pocket. He has not been big on sacks, but he has helped others get great sack totals. He;s the perfect guy to put next to McCoy…and may well turn into a hall of famer someday.
July 9th, 2018 at 9:15 am
stpetebucsfan Says:
“Why was he out drunk out of his gourd with Darby and a convicted rapist. How freaking stupid was that and how much did it betray anybody…including fans who love the Bucs.”
I don’t actually think Banks was convicted at the time, and I’m not even sure he was accused yet either (though I’m not certain on that).
Darby is a friend, and a fellow football player.
People think Jameis should stay away from him because he gets in trouble around him. That might be true. But it might be that Darby just happened to be a witness in the past and told the truth.
I think the main issue here is that Jameis is being judged for his college days all over again. He was never convicted of anything then, so its not fair to hold them against him. This is a totally separate event, and therefore must be looked at individually.
So far as the drinking…I am not a drinker. In fact, I hate the mere thought of alcohol. It literally makes my stomach turn when I smell it. But I also recognize that as long as it is legal (and I would be 200% for making alcohol illegal given the number of deaths it causes), we cannot hold the consumption of it against anyone.
Jameis got drunk. Jameis may or may not have done something while he was drunk. Jameis may or may not remember portions of that night. Jameis has not gotten into and sort of trouble since then.
Banks may or may not be telling the truth about the Uber ride (he has reason to claim he was not there, considering his present circumstances).
Darby may or may not be telling the truth.
The NFL may or may not have found proof. The NFL does have reason to appear tough on accusations of this sort. The NFL felt the need to negotiate a suspension for some reason…which I have never heard of being done unless in appeal.
The authorities do not have proof, because no charges were even considered being filed.
The media has reason to make this story as big and dramatic as possible, and to do that, they have to seem convincing.
Those are the facts. All circumstantial.
That’s the bottom line. Based on all of that, I still support Jameis.
July 9th, 2018 at 9:17 am
stpetebucsfan Says
“Why was he out drunk out of his gourd with Darby and a convicted rapist. How freaking stupid was that and how much did it betray anybody…including fans who love the Bucs.”
I don’t actually think Banks was convicted at the time, and I’m not even sure he was accused yet either, though I’m not certain on that.
Darby is a friend, and a fellow football player.
People think Jameis should stay away from him because he gets in trouble around him. That might be true. But it might be that Darby just happened to be a witness in the past and told the truth.
I think the main issue here is that Jameis is being judged for his college days all over again. He was never convicted of anything then, so its not fair to hold them against him. This is a totally separate event, and therefore must be looked at individually.
So far as the drinking…I am not a drinker. In fact, I hate the mere thought of alcohol. It literally makes my stomach turn when I smell it. But I also recognize that as long as it is legal, and I would be 200% for making alcohol illegal given the number of deaths it causes, we cannot hold the consumption of it against anyone.
Jameis got drunk. Jameis may or may not have done something while he was drunk. Jameis may or may not remember portions of that night. Jameis has not gotten into and sort of trouble since then.
Banks may or may not be telling the truth about the Uber ride. He has reason to claim he was not there, considering his present circumstances.
Darby may or may not be telling the truth.
The NFL may or may not have found proof. The NFL does have reason to appear tough on accusations of this sort. The NFL felt the need to negotiate a suspension for some reason…which I have never heard of being done unless in appeal.
The authorities do not have proof, because no charges were even considered being filed.
The media has reason to make this story as big and dramatic as possible, and to do that, they have to seem convincing.
Those are the facts. All circumstantial.
That’s the bottom line. Based on all of that, I still support Jameis.
July 9th, 2018 at 9:30 am
“ignoring running back and defensive end to select O.J. Howard”
This again? Joe would have preferred Taco Charlton over OJ Howard???
C.mon Man…..
July 9th, 2018 at 10:26 am
This story is about Brate and OJ, how does it turn into a Jameis story. there are tons other posts to comment on. I loved the OJ pick, I was hoping for Dalvin, but even I was like if he is still there, you grab OJ. two tight end set. boom who do you cover? If the Oline can block…give either QB enough time and you def got 1-2 ppl open.
July 9th, 2018 at 11:11 am
I wasn’t big on the Howard pick, how did he drop that far as such a highly touted pick? I agree that RB was a bigger necessity for the Bucs. Not saying that OJ is not a good receiver and blocker, but the running game was not strong enough overall to help the team win. I doubt fans will see OJ wide open down the sidelines again.
July 9th, 2018 at 1:28 pm
I am with you Bucaneer Bonzai I rather support the one who help others..with HIS TIME and MONEY..that’s fact, not speculation or inuendo, but of couse that is not worth anything to no one but the families he help!
So as far as I KNOW he is a pretty good young Man!
and…TEAMWORK makes the DREAMWORK!
GO BUCS!
July 9th, 2018 at 2:42 pm
Disagree with the narrative that TE wasn’t a need. It all boils down to which type of offense is being used to determine how big a need TE is. In Dirk’s offense TE is perhaps the most important job, especially an all around TE like Howard. Problem was that our Oline took a step backwards and our running game was trash. OJ didn’t matter much as again we were a bottom tier team in the scoring department.
I was elated to get OJ and my next choice was to get that TE from Miami that Cleveland snagged a few picks later.
July 9th, 2018 at 2:53 pm
And anybody crying about Cook needs to check themselves. Didn’t he just shred up his knee? No guarantee he ever returns to form. He can join an extremely long list of players whose careers were ruined from injury.
Right now the Bucs have a proven and legit weapon with OJ while Cook is a big fat question mark. BTW question marks aren’t good I.e. Noah Spence.