Jordan Whitehead > Derwin James?
May 4th, 2018
Bucs’ fourth round pick praised.
Joe isn’t sure if someone here is trying to stick out from the pack or if they are truly being heartfelt.
Many Bucs fans have still not sobered up after trying to drink away the vision in their heads that the Bucs drafted Vita Vea over Derwin James last week. Well, one NFL analyst believes, at this stage of their careers, Bucs’ fourth round pick Jordan Whitehead from Pitt is a better safety than James.
This comes from Jonah Tuls of NDTScouting.com, which supplies player analysis for USA Today. In a very deep dive on both players, Tuls believes Whitehead is ready to rock and roll as an NFL safety on Day 1. He isn’t sure James is (yet).
Why? Part of that is James, so Tuls types, plays at the line of scrimmage much more than Whitehead.
Tuls believes Whitehead is a more pure safety than James. This isn’t a unique thought as former Bucs quarterback Chris Simms stated James is more of a linebacker than a safety.
Tuls offers his breakdown.
Again, both of these players share similar playmaking ability, explosiveness and man coverage skills, but this all comes down to the fact that I think one player can do more than the other at this stage. James is one of the best players in the nation because of what he does at the line of scrimmage (LOS) for Florida State, but even though Whitehead may not be as much of a difference maker in run support, he is just as good in man coverage.
The difference then comes down to how each player can play free safety. One player can and one player cannot right now. It is that simple. Whitehead is more suited to play free safety because of his size, but he has shown that he can be a force at the LOS, the same spot that James is limited to, in my opinion.
In today’s NFL, teams are looking for a “big nickel” who can play in the slot, guard tight ends and play some sort of hybrid between an outside linebacker, cornerback, and safety. James could be perfect for this role, but Whitehead could play this role as well, in addition to having the capabilities of a deep middle player. Whitehead’s questions are off of the field, as he was dealt a three-game suspension to start the 2017 season for undisclosed disciplinary action, but in terms of on the field traits, Whitehead is the complete safety prospect and everything scouts wanted Jabrill Peppers to be with his playmaking ability. On the other hand, the only thing really separating Peppers and James as prospects is that James is bigger and more aggressive in run support. With that being said, I believe at this stage that Jordan Whitehead is a more valuable prospect than Derwin James.
It is a bit difficult for Joe to believe a fourth round draft pick is more NFL-ready at a position than a guy some would argue was one of the top players in the draft and was picked 16th overall. Could it be that Whitehead’s sketchy past caused him to fall this badly?
If Tuls’ reasoning is remotely accurate, Bucs AC/DC-loving general manager Jason Licht pulled off a heist.
Hat tip: @Jvato24
May 4th, 2018 at 9:40 am
Could be. But it’s all on paper now. Whitehead can play RB in a pinch too.
May 4th, 2018 at 9:41 am
This kid is special. Check out one of his highlight reels on youtube. His offensive skills are to be reckoned with. I can see him returning punts as well. He’s a baller for sure. I think the back end will be a real strength this season. All 3 of the picks are alpha’s. Combined with Evans, and Grimes, and a strong D line, we should be formidable for sure.
May 4th, 2018 at 9:43 am
LOL. that’s all i have to say
May 4th, 2018 at 9:45 am
I think what he is saying is that it really is dependant on scheme fit. He doesn’t believe James is as good a traditional safety, and if you intend to use him as one that a team would be better suited with Whitehead. Different players, different strengths.
May 4th, 2018 at 9:47 am
Our AC/DC loving Good morning has also repeatedly started that the majority of NFL busts do so due to mental / decision-making problems. Hopefully, Mr. Whitehead has learned from his suspension and turned a new leaf. We do not know why he was suspended, but obviously don’t need any issues (Tanard Jackson, Mike Williams).
May 4th, 2018 at 9:53 am
Lol “GM” getting autocorrected to “Good Morning”
May 4th, 2018 at 9:53 am
Every pick comes down to fit. The bucs clearly thought vea fit better in this defense than james would have. I’ll admit I didnt watch Whitehead play at all, so I cant compare the 2. If he ends up starting at safety then Licht did pull off a heist. Could end up being a all time great draft thanks to the trade back. Love it. Also if James has success in SD it doesnt mean he would have here. Totally different defenses.
May 4th, 2018 at 9:56 am
I think Licht knocked it out the park this year… Defensively locked up a starting DT (Vea), starting FS (Whitehead), starting CB (Davis) and starting Nickel (Stewart) for the next 10 years. And Jack Cichy is going to be great depth and a special teams asset from day one if he can get healthy.Now all we need is to find our other starting CB because VHIII is not the guy.
I LOVE the Rojo, Cappa and Watson picks. I feel like Cappa will eventually be our RT, not a G like everyone thinks. Rojo is going to be a stud and Watson will eventually be our #3 guy behind Evans and Godwin.
From having so many holes a couple weeks ago, I think all we really need is a G & CB from being a complete team. It’s up to these morons in the coaching staff to put it all together.
May 4th, 2018 at 9:59 am
What makes me wonder is that Tuls praises him as FREE Safety. Wasn’t STRONG Safety the need??
May 4th, 2018 at 10:02 am
Lets hope so…..it would be another piece to the puzzle
May 4th, 2018 at 10:10 am
Yea, what about SS?
May 4th, 2018 at 10:11 am
I said this on draft night…..first our scheme doesn’t fit d.james…..smitty would have him playing deep instead of at the LOS…..
second, don’t let the 4th label fool you….as it was mentioned above, character issues caused him to drop….if not for the suspension, he might have been a 2nd round pick…..who knows……
I love the pick….I think licht did a great job this offseason…..now can the coaches get some production out of them….
#NOEXCUSESIN2018!!!!!….#PRESSURESONTHECOACHES!!!!!….GO BUCS!!!!
May 4th, 2018 at 10:15 am
Again hype is a dangerous thing as when watching FSU, every single game for the record, Derwin James is much like the McCoy of FSU as in I hear his name a lot before the game and when he makes a play or two but he really doesn’t do anything outstanding very often. His traits are what people are drawn to not his tape and I myself prefer tape of traits. I am not saying Whitehead is good or bad cause I did not watch him play but I will say if Derwin ends up being a elite player I will be surprised.
May 4th, 2018 at 10:20 am
It seems to me that smitty plays more of a 4-2 or 4-1 or even the 3-3 defense with cover 3 most of the time with justin evans as the high safety so if this dude is legtit and can cover the falt or the #3/4 WR/TE whoever that will be awesome and with the DL on paper the pass rush should get there better than in years past, you run a 4-2 with kown and LVD out there on passing downs and LVD or kwon blitzzing or whitehead blitzing or whatever exotic blitzes smitty has but has not been able to run because of personnel, it seems on paper that licht has gotten the defense the pieces this year to slow down the teams in the NFC South
May 4th, 2018 at 10:23 am
I’m happy we didn’t get James. And his head is bigger than body. Ackward body stature
May 4th, 2018 at 10:29 am
FSU fans and others need to stop crying about how we took an extremly athletic, 350 lb DT (41 bench reps) over a safety at #7. Vea adds huge help to a d-line that now could go from worst to first. Mike Smith’s secondary may play a little closer to the line but it’s still gonna be cover 2. He said constantly last year you need an edge rush for the defense to work and now it looks like we got one. With Vea, GMC, and JPP, opposing OC will have to determine which of the three needs to be double teamed every play. And according to many safety is the toughest position to learn coming into the NFL.
May 4th, 2018 at 10:32 am
*FSU fans and others need to stop crying about how we took an extremly athletic, 350 lb DT (41 bench reps) over a safety at #7
Correction, #12.
May 4th, 2018 at 10:36 am
@Tuls … “Whitehead is more suited to play free safety because of his size.” Missing something here. I thought Justin Evans was our starting free safety?
May 4th, 2018 at 10:41 am
Derwin James is a true SS so whatever Tuls is talking about doesn’t make any sense. James covered tightends the slot receiver RB out the back field and played the hybrid position. He has to play where the coach ask him to play. Jalen Ramsey played the exact same position in college. I didn’t see anyone saying he wasn’t going to be good a CB. I hope Whitehead becomes an all pro but trying to compare a SS and a FS is not making sense
May 4th, 2018 at 10:42 am
SOEbuc Says:
May 4th, 2018 at 10:32 am
*FSU fans and others need to stop crying about how we took an extremly athletic, 350 lb DT (41 bench reps) over a safety at #7
Correction, #12.
Why does it always have to be FSU fans that you go after? I am a huge FSU fan and did not want Derwin, just like I didn’t want EJ Manual, Christian Ponder, Travouis McFadden, or even Demarcus Walker. I did however want Jameis, Ramsey and Dalvin Cook cause hey look at that they are great players where the others where not. It is a simple as that maybe people just want great players or their team regardless of where they went to school. What is wrong with that? For instance I can’t stand the Gators or the Hurricanes but I would love for VH3 to be great but like I said before he was drafted he is short and slow and gets beat in college by very good WR’s so why would that change in the NFL. That was not because he was a Gator it was because it was true and lookey lookey he cant play, shocker right!!!
May 4th, 2018 at 10:44 am
SOEbuc
I havent really seen much of an FSU mob touting Derwin James like they have with some other players in the past. Im an FSU fan and I did not want the Bucs to take James with the 1st pick. Although James is highly talented, he never lived up to expectations at FSU. His potential is high but consistency and health are the issues.
May 4th, 2018 at 10:47 am
Does a great breakdown of Rojo also
May 4th, 2018 at 10:48 am
@TheBucsAnthem
You said, “Mark Barron isn’t turning his career around
He’s the same OL’ Saftey…….good in the box tackler and piss poor coverage skills
and Derwin James Fits that mold to a tee!!!!
____________________________________________________________
Read the article homie. James plays near the box more like a LB
May 4th, 2018 at 10:52 am
Yeah I’m confused too because you usually see a guy who is bigger than 5’10” 200lbs playing strong safety.
Justin Evans is 2″ taller but the same weight. He will stay at Free I believe.
The scouting report says Whitehead plays a lot bigger so I assume he will be the Strong Safety if he starts with Evans.
May 4th, 2018 at 10:52 am
So many great finds later on in the draft. I mean Tom Brady at 199 it happens more often than not. If anyone can find a diamond in the rough I feel Licht can.
May 4th, 2018 at 10:54 am
Tuls is saying Whitehead is as good as Derwin close to the LOS, but playing deep he is much better than James, he can play SS and FS, which is an asset that James doesn’t possess, James is mainly a SS, James is still a better SS but Whitehead is a better overall safety due to his versatility
May 4th, 2018 at 10:57 am
“Wasn’t STRONG Safety the need??”
The Bucs – or at least Mike Smith – like to roll with 2 Safeties that can both play SS or FS.
For all the flexibility he’ll have I damn sure hope it translates to results on the field this season
May 4th, 2018 at 11:05 am
MJ is thet “the big nickel” that he was talking about.
MJ is a thick, strong, safety/CB/LB/ slot player.
Jordan is an absolute freak at FS.
He hits hard, he has amazing hands, he’s 4.4 fast. He’s smooth and athletic.
Justin Evans next to Jordan Whitehead. Amazing safety combo for years to come.
Godwin Igwebuke is a steal!!
He’s a 4.4 SS. He is Tandy’s replacement. He reminds me a lot of Tndy, except that he can run a 4.4 instead of a 4.7.
He will be a great special team gunner.
My hopeful depth chart (barring injuries)
Safeties
1. Justin Evans SS
2. Jordan Whitehead FS (honey badger type player)
3. Chris Conte FS (must keep one safety with experience)
4. Godwin Igwebuike SS ( a 4.4 version of Keith Tandy)
Corners
1. Brent Grimes
2. Carlton Davis
3. MJ Stewart- starting nickel
4. Hargreaves
5. Ryan Smith
6. Javien Elliot
Cut- Josh Robinson (too expensive)- Ryan Smith and Godwin Igwebuike can be gunners
Cut- Keith Tandy- one of my favorite Bucs. A great man. But it’s time to move on. .
May 4th, 2018 at 11:23 am
I don’t thunk I’m following the logic.. Justin Evans is our Free and will stay at FS. We needed a SS. I’m fine with us passing on James. But I think the above Logic is flawed as it pertains to the Bucs need for an upgrade at SS.
May 4th, 2018 at 11:24 am
teacherman777, I agree with you on that Secondary structure except for 1 player: Elliott. Hunch that Bucs will add 1 more experienced CB to the mix before the season starts (I think they’re just waiting to see what they’ve got already, i.e., who steps up to the plate). What you listed is an extremely inexperienced Secondary (Conte & Grimes are the only real old-timers). The player in that group who has me the most intrigued is Godwin Igwebuike. Could well turn out to be the biggest sleeper in the entire group … or not even make the team. We’ll just have to wait and see I guess.
May 4th, 2018 at 11:27 am
Our defense will be much improved and needed when JW starts throwing INT’s and fumbling from butter fingers
May 4th, 2018 at 11:35 am
The Bucs don’t play traditional FS/SS roles. Mike Smith wants his safeties to be interchangeable. I’m not sure that I agree with how this theory works but that is what I’ve seen both on film and written. Occasionally you see a Cover 3 with the single high free/box safety look but not as much as the twin high safeties.
Type interchangeable safeties, Bucs, Mike Smith into google and see what pops up.
May 4th, 2018 at 11:59 am
Mike Smith has stated it quite a few times.
His defense doesnt have a SS and a FS.
Both safeties play deep coverage at Times
We got the right Guy for our defense
May 4th, 2018 at 12:24 pm
As LT said in the movie Waterboy “don’t smoke crack”!
May 4th, 2018 at 12:34 pm
I’m just wondering:::::: Robert, are you really a Buc fan?
One of the most negative people in print.
May 4th, 2018 at 12:37 pm
Or, what Tnew said
May 4th, 2018 at 12:41 pm
post draft gushing.
Every year, like clockwork.
May 4th, 2018 at 12:59 pm
It’s worth noting this was posted 10/11/17 – This was far removed from the draft.
May 4th, 2018 at 1:03 pm
I like Whitehead, hope he pops off this year!!!
May 4th, 2018 at 1:09 pm
“one NFL analyst believes, at this stage of their careers, Bucs’ fourth round pick Jordan Whitehead from Pitt is a better safety than James.”
Yea – um NO… LOL
Its not an apples to apples comparison though. I do get what the writer is trying to say. Whitehead has a CB background and may well be better in coverage than James at this point – which is an important attribute for Safeties in today’s NFL.
As far as pure athleticism, speed, size, etc – there’s no comparison. James is the protype in those regards and Whitehead is – well – lets just say he’s “undersized” if he’s going to be lining up at SS.
May 4th, 2018 at 1:14 pm
I did hear one analyst talking about the Bucs and he said we never wanted James from the git-go. He said it was the same thing mentioned in the article how James plays up at the LOS and is a much better fit for SD because of that.
May 4th, 2018 at 1:15 pm
So James is the better player and Whitehead the better pure S? I would take the better player given the choice.
May 4th, 2018 at 1:26 pm
A 4th rounder being better than a 1st rounder NEVER
Well Joe there maybe a few
Like maybe 6th round pick Tom Brady??
James is a bust make it down
May 4th, 2018 at 2:05 pm
Just because some FSU fanboys proclaimed Derwin as the heir apparent does not mean all FSU fans did. I did not want Derwin for a host of reasons. How on earth a SS with limited college production who missed a year due to a knee injury and as noted is not that great as a deep safety is this sure-fire All-Pro is beyond me. All-Pro in hype, yes. On the field? Nope.
Casual fans who only know a players HS recruiting ranking make the rest look worse by comparison.
May 4th, 2018 at 2:16 pm
Joe, I really like the way you collect information. You don’t automatically assume that Licht and company messed up big time. Just maybe this will be one of those super drafts that really turns the team around. Only time will tell.
Also, I believe that Licht made a pretty good pick when he selected Noah Spence. If Spence had a history of injuries…we could say he was too much of a gamble. But, that’s not the case. Hopefully, Spence will stay healthy and Hargreaves will recover from whatever.
May 4th, 2018 at 2:19 pm
Put it on tape. I’ll be watching our corners and safeties in preseason to see who will show up when the beige lights come on and who will have stage fright. I would love to see two ball Hawks back there instead of the traditional box safety and free safety role the way this new NFL throws so much
May 4th, 2018 at 2:55 pm
Derwin James seems more suited to the Mark Barron-type of role that he took on once signing with the Rams.
I’ll go on record saying that I’d rather have Whitehead than James.
May 4th, 2018 at 4:41 pm
Whitehead is an excellent ball player. he’s one of the best to ever come out of Western Pennsylvania. If you do some research you’ll find out how good this kid is and you’ll all be very very happy. He will probably start on day one.
May 4th, 2018 at 5:18 pm
Teacherman 77…..Cut Tandy, Really. Watch he is going to be starting beside Evans this season. Tandy is the better Safety the Bucs have at this point. Evans is a good cover guy but can’t tackle. Smith screwed up the entire 2017 season last year by not playing Tandy and about got fired. He learned his lesson. Tandy is a Veteran that studies like mad and is prepared every Sunday. A Coach on the field that is always where he needs to be to make the play. Watch what I’m saying. I may be wrong but I may not. GO BUCS!!!!!!!
May 4th, 2018 at 5:35 pm
Fake news!
May 4th, 2018 at 6:09 pm
Go Bucs!!!!
May 4th, 2018 at 6:31 pm
Cut it with the clickbait joe
May 4th, 2018 at 9:10 pm
Holy moly there are no words to describe this level of lunacy… I will admit to being a FSU Homer but some of the criticism coming their prospects way is ridiculous…
Whitehead may very well end up being a better pro but to say he is a better safety right now is insane… there is a reason why James went 17 overall and Jordan went in the 4th round
May 4th, 2018 at 10:55 pm
Uf fanboys still on their knees praying for Tebow to show them the light
May 5th, 2018 at 12:08 am
For those laughing at this… why?
It is perfectly plausible.
There are plenty of 3-5 round picks who became great starters and 1st round picks who didn’t.
Where they are drafted is somewhat irrelevant
May 5th, 2018 at 9:50 am
We’ll see! Stay tuned!
May 5th, 2018 at 5:41 pm
Whithead can run the ball too
May 7th, 2018 at 10:55 am
I think in a lot of the scouting reports I read Whitehead was very respectably ranked among Safety prospects, with some ranking him just behind James as the #2 Safety prospect in this draft class, so he definitely is a legit selection at the position who we got in the 4th round. How many teams looked past Kwon Alexander before the Bucs scooped him up? Let’s hope the scouts and Licht got it right because we really need to shore up our secondary in the worst way.