“There’s No Freaking Way Tampa!”
April 23rd, 2018
Former Bucs QB tells Bucs to give up hope.
It ain’t happening, Bucs fans.
That’s the word from former Bucs quarterback Chris Simms.
What is he referring to?
In a lively, spirited discussion about who the Bucs should pick at No. 7, both the creator, curator and overall guru of Pro Football Talk, the great Mike Florio, and Simms sparred this morning on “Pro Football Talk Live,” which is viewed by intelligent football fans weekday mornings on NBC Sports Network.
For Bucs fans, or perhaps employees of the Bucs, your dreams of Saquon Barkley coming to Tampa Bay to fix the rushing attack of the Bucs is pure cheerleader bubble bath fantasy, replete with the rubber ducky.
Simms suggests a more reasonable if not rational goal would be Notre Dame guard Quenton Nelson. Simms was outspoken about this.
Chris Simms: Listen, it is not just about the running backs there. The offensive line could use some help. I think that is another thing we look at. Jameis Winston is always under pressure but they’ve never been able to get a run game or balance on offense to help out Jameis Winston and Mike Evans. They are sitting at pick No. 7. Right now I look at them to go, ‘Man, Quenton Nelson’ — the guard from Notre Dame. You want improve your run game? He can be the guy that can road grade and open up some big holes for that run game in Tampa.
Mike Florio: You know who they want at No. 7? I don’t know if they are going to get him. They want Saquon Barkley.
Simms: Good luck. Yeah. There’s no freaking way Tampa! Sorry. You better trade up.
Florio: How do you know that!? How do you know there’s no way?
Simms: I just can’t imagine that the best player [will be there].
There is a lot to work with here for Joe. First, Joe does not dismiss the need for another offensive lineman with the sketchy health status of J.R. Sweezy and Demar Dotson. The duo have combined to miss a total of 37 games with injuries the past three seasons. Sweezy’s future is uncertain. He has yet to be cleared to return to football activities and Dotson recently had knee surgery this month and at best is out until training camp.
The right side of the Bucs offensive line looks a lot more shaky now than it was three weeks ago.
But this Nelson folks are raving about, so a rookie guard who has yet to take even one snap in an NFL underwear football practice is supposed to play like an All-Pro right away and pancake block defenders on every play and never allow America’s Quarterback, Pro Bowler Jameis Winston, to have a defender lay a finger on him? That’s the way it sounds the way folks are blowing smoke up this Nelson’s reverse windpipe.
Nelson very well may some day be a total stud, but history demonstrates over and over again that a rookie running back is far more likely to have an immediate impact on an offense than an offensive lineman.
Joe just doesn’t get this narrative that the Bucs’ offensive line was such a sieve, like Denver or the New York Giants. The problem was Doug freaking Martin, people. If folks blame the offensive line for Martin’s problems, that’s unspoken code for saying the offensive line laid down for Martin and instead blocked for Peyton Barber.
Joe doesn’t believe that for a split second.
How was it that Barber, in the final five weeks of the season, ran for four more yards per carry than Martin in some games? Both ran behind the very same blockers? Let’s look at the yards-per carry for both running backs in the final five games.
At Green Bay
Barber 4.43 YPC
Martin (benched)
Detroit
Barber 4.83
Martin 2.60
Atlanta
Barber 4.08
Martin 4.71
At Carolina
Barber 3.92
Martin 1.17
New Orleans
Barber 4.18
Martin -1.00
Can we please quit wailing that the offensive line was the culprit here — unless you firmly believe beyond a shadow of a doubt the Bucs offensive line hatched a plot, conspiring to play matador in unison whenever Martin was in the backfield.
No, the Bucs may not get Barkley. That shouldn’t stop Bucs AC/DC-loving general manager Jason Licht from trading down with a quarterback-hungry team and perhaps getting Isaiah Wynn and Nick Chubb.
All-you-can-eat buffet available starting at 6 p.m. and runs all night long. Be there!! Joe and Ira Kaufman will be in the house with the Stick Carriers and The Commish. Raw energy and Bucs love everywhere.
April 23rd, 2018 at 2:06 pm
Amen Joe!!
April 23rd, 2018 at 2:07 pm
I just have an awful feeling that Barkley will fall to #7.
April 23rd, 2018 at 2:08 pm
I concur on all points here, however, the Bucs seem to be more focused on having a parrot get into position for the draft rather than a running back.
April 23rd, 2018 at 2:09 pm
And this is why “real” fans light a candle when joe tries to do player evaluation!!!!!! When Evans D is an upgrade to sweezy at guard then yes, Nelson would be a instant upgrade over both!!!!!!
Fix the trenches because there is still much work to do!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Go Bucs!!!!!!!!!
April 23rd, 2018 at 2:09 pm
We all thought there was no way OJ would fall to #19
April 23rd, 2018 at 2:11 pm
Yep, nothing to see here! O-line is right as rain! All Martin’s fault! SMH!
Those final weeks saw more carries for Barber on fresher legs, deservedly so, and BACK-UP linemen who clearly blocked better in the run-game as the evidence points to.
If we’re not going to land Barkley or Chubb, we need to address the o-line. That is, unless Joe’s short-term memory has failed him and he forgot about Dotson being operated on and JR Sweezy sucking!
April 23rd, 2018 at 2:12 pm
I agree that the offensive line wasn’t the problem with our running game…..playcalling, Martin….game situations played a part….
but….we could certainly use some improvement…
At this point our argument could be moot…..
!. Barkley could be there (1%chance)
2. Chubb could be there (2%chance)
3. Nelson could be gone (50%chance)
4. A trade could be offered that would be more advantageous than Nelson.
5. Bucs could deem the defensive backfield more important than OG
April 23rd, 2018 at 2:17 pm
Com’on now. Barber only had 30 less carries than Martin.
Unlike Martin, Barber didn’t have the first three weeks of the season off (serving a suspension).
Barber also did not have a bye week like Martin basically did (suspended for the Packers game).
Joe would argue it was Martin who had fresher legs.
April 23rd, 2018 at 2:18 pm
Sorry joe but the oline was horrible! If not the poor blocking both pass and run, then the untimely penalties, what nfl oline rotates guards every other series?
Jameis Winston is always under pressure but they’ve never been able to get a run game or balance on offense …… and that’s just the truth.
Draft Barkley and all you’re going to see is him getting stuffed behind the LOS just like Martin.
April 23rd, 2018 at 2:23 pm
Martin career carries 1,150, Barber 163. I’d say those are some fresh legs!
April 23rd, 2018 at 2:27 pm
Agree 100 % with fanman. There were better results from the line but it was not the same line for most of those games. Also Dalvin Cook has yet to make an impact and there have been other RB’s hurt in their first season.
April 23rd, 2018 at 2:31 pm
Trade down foe Wynn and Chubb sounds good to me. Listening Licht?
April 23rd, 2018 at 2:32 pm
i would rather them take s derwin james.
April 23rd, 2018 at 2:34 pm
Can we agree on these two issues….
1. Martin was inadequate
2. The Oline needs improvement
April 23rd, 2018 at 2:42 pm
Very short sighted analysis.
I can find several rookie pro bowl interior lineman in just the past several drafts.
Nelson is viewed by many to be better than all of them.
Great teams build from the lines out.
The smart move is Nelson
The typical BS move is wasting picks to trade up or grabbing a safety way too early. Wonder how that worked out for us last time.
Pick Nelson
FIX THE TRENCHES, FIX THE BUCS!!
April 23rd, 2018 at 2:43 pm
Joe, you’re he only media outlet that believes the Bucs woes on offense last year had nothing to do with the offensive line, and you’ve run with this for 2 years now. You give too much credit to Barber, and too little to Martin.
Was Barber more effective, yes. But I saw our RBs needing to make moves in the backfield to avoid tacklers far too often! Winston too!… and didn’t Jaboo lead the league with fumbles by a QB?
Sweezy has been an absolute BUST of a signing since we signed him and I think we’re going to do everything we can to replace him. While not immediately a concern, our outside offensive lineman need to be addressed at some point also.
Don’t sleep on an (at best) average offensive line to protect your franchise QB.
April 23rd, 2018 at 2:48 pm
I’ll laugh so hard if Licht drafts a RB round 1.
April 23rd, 2018 at 2:49 pm
If we’re able to negotiate a decent trade-down, I’ll take Will Hernandez over Wynn. I think that guys gonna be a beast!! Can get him possibly at top of 2nd round.
April 23rd, 2018 at 2:51 pm
I STILL wonder if GM93 or LVD54 could possibly be trade-bait in the draft for us??? Hmmmm 🤔🤔🤔
April 23rd, 2018 at 2:53 pm
you know it is possible that both are true. Martin can suck and the OL can suck. Although I thought the OL did a decent job in run blocking and that they seemed more suspect in pass protection.
Jameis took a lot of hits and that’s not all on him.
April 23rd, 2018 at 2:56 pm
Wasn’t one of the Joe’s calling for Johnny Football a few years ago with the Bucs first round pick?
April 23rd, 2018 at 2:57 pm
Being at 7 is why this franchise is a total freaking joke.
Should’ve lost that last game.
Instead everyone wants to play hero and talk about moral victories.
All it did was hurt them.
Stupid owners stupid coaches.
All idiots.
And now they’ve cost themselves a much better player.
April 23rd, 2018 at 3:00 pm
If Nelson is there you take him. The Bucs have many holes to fill and the offensive line is one of them. Unless of course Barkley or Chubb are available.
April 23rd, 2018 at 3:01 pm
I would love to see the Bucs trade down and
get Isaiah Wynn and Nick Chubb with #7.
April 23rd, 2018 at 3:02 pm
Joe
Rookies tend to contribute according to their positions…obviously again exceptions to the rule.
But “normally” DE’s take awhile to develop…OG’s not so much.
Remember how we took an OT from an unknown school…Hobart? started him from the get go at guard and he certainly contributed.
It’s not pie in the sky to hope that Nelson could at least be as good as Ali his first year…not Pro Bowl but still quite effective.
April 23rd, 2018 at 3:03 pm
A previous article by JOE had the Bucs O-line ranked at #15 or 16. Right in the middle of the pack. I like Nelson, would add great depth, but the secondary should be a priority. Get Minkah or Derwin.
April 23rd, 2018 at 3:04 pm
Sound philosophy Sweeptheleg!!!
If we just would have lost ALL our games, we could have whoever we want!!!!
SMH! Do you know how absurd that sounds?!
April 23rd, 2018 at 3:15 pm
Let’s not forget Doug Martin got busy for PEDs…which is suppose to ENHANCE your performance….and he did exactly what?Hell Ryan Fitzpatrick was even the lead rusher in one of the games last year!!!
April 23rd, 2018 at 3:21 pm
Ol’ Chrissy…the first draft pick post-Super Bowl win. Threw a pretty deep ball I suppose…but little else. Points for playing thru an explode spleen…never cared for him as a Buc…
April 23rd, 2018 at 3:22 pm
[You know, if it p!sses you off that much, don’t comment. Think Joe enjoys fishing people’s comments out of that basket all day long? Trust Joe, he has better things to do. — Joe]
April 23rd, 2018 at 3:25 pm
You can never have too good if an o line. If you build a great oline, anyone with two legs could run for positive yards. Either draft Nelson, or trade back and grab Wynn or even Hernandez. Especially with the shaky status of I.R. Sneezy and Demar Dotson.
April 23rd, 2018 at 3:31 pm
Peyton Barber was fresh and Martin was a shell of his former self, but the offensive line still struggled with run blocking, and were the opposite of graders. More times than not they were being blown off the ball crowding all the RB lanes. It is true that an average runner can put up pro bowl numbers behind dominating o-lines. If Nelson is there at #7, then he’s the best player available that fills our need.
April 23rd, 2018 at 3:32 pm
If Nelson is on the board and Barkley and Chubb are gone, YOU PICK THAT DUDE! BPA- simple as that.
April 23rd, 2018 at 3:40 pm
Ryan. Smith.
That’s all.
April 23rd, 2018 at 3:41 pm
firstdown
I agree……there’s 3 day1 starters at G in nelson, wynn and hernandez and we must come out of this draft with 1 of them…..
folks talking about how Orlando brown is slipping as well…..might be picked on the 3rd day….
no way we can come into camp depending on sweezy and Dotson…..
#NOEXCUSESIN2018!!!!!!….GO BUCS!!!!!
April 23rd, 2018 at 3:42 pm
@bucsfanman
Stfu you moron. That last win got them nothing but a worse draft pick.
That win proved nothing and only hurt them. Not saying they should lose all of them but when the season is over and it’s the last game the only thing that can help is the best draft position possible dumb as s
Did you just get this stupid or were you born this way?
My god what an idiot you are.
April 23rd, 2018 at 3:43 pm
So basically Joe is saying we should trade down if we can even if Nelson is there so we can take Wynn + Chubb.
Or Hernandez + Michel.
Sounds good on paper but depends on where we trade down.
Are you OK with WYnn or Hernandez at pick 11/12/15? Cuz that’s where you likely have to select them to guarantee you get one.
It’s more likely we trade back and take James/Vea/Davenport/Ward; and then a RB in R2; and then an OG somewhere later.
OR we could always just take Nelson and then Chubb R2. The Joe that thinks we should avoid CBs like the plauge due to Mike Smith shoudl be all about that type of plan.
April 23rd, 2018 at 3:43 pm
@bucsfanam
I can’t believe you’re this stupid. You must be a troll cause no one in their right mind thinks that win helped anything at all.
April 23rd, 2018 at 3:44 pm
🙂 🙂
THIS Bucs fan watches this show every morning, series record on DVR in fact. Because of Florio. Simms was added (as Mike has stated repeatedly prior, for banter, and because of Chris’ tenuous affiliation with Bar Stool Sports, as in the NBC Sports executives (owners of PFT and Rotoworld) thought adding a little comic relief 3 days a week (not 5 days a week) with a guest “host” would add some flare or panache to the delivery of the show. Not an analyst.
Chris Simms, not even Phil Simms, and even he is a flimsy stretch at best. Chris Simms 🙂
The piece of the show this morning THAT WAS NOT INCLUDED in the article above, on this exchange on the subject of Barkley and the Bucs was Mike Florio’s retort right after Simms said “I just can’t imagine that the best player in this draft will just be there”. Mike Florio’s response right thereafter said “really?! No?!…this much I know, that Tampa Bay loves Saquon Barkley. Mark it Down. They do!”
NOW… when I (or any other intelligent fan of any team is going to consider one’s credence in the source of whom uttered ANYTHING…..for any sort of relevance….who should anyone consider as revelatory or “taking it to the bank” so to speak….Mike Florio?….or Chris Simms? And for those who may not know, Florio does NOT use the term “mark it down” EVER.
So if Mike says…”this much I know (know being the key word), that Tampa Bay loves Saquon Barkley. Mark it down.” To THIS Bucs fan, from a source like Florio with that verbiage, that certainly doesn’t convey the lackadaisical nature of “waiting till pick #7” to see if ….the best player in the draft is available.
Florio, not a Simms.
Go Bucs! Go Bold! Go Barkley! Go Primetime!
April 23rd, 2018 at 3:49 pm
sweeptheleg you are right because what we want to do is stock this rosters who don’t care if they win. Surefire way to build a winner.
April 23rd, 2018 at 3:58 pm
Get Nelson if he’s there and trade back in the second to get a RB and CB but please for the love of Mary draft a safety that high!
I love Derwin but man his second season scares me and our history with young corners isn’t good.
April 23rd, 2018 at 4:00 pm
By that logic people saying bucs would bypass Nelson to pick someone else like James is logical. The line is good and got a lot better with the signing of Jensen
April 23rd, 2018 at 4:00 pm
I would rather have Chubb than any of the Big 3 but I know he won’t be there. Nelson is actually my second choice.
April 23rd, 2018 at 4:05 pm
@Dewey Selmon,
As great as the OJ Howard pick was, he wasn’t the best player in the draft like Barkley is. I don’t see Barkley getting past the Browns at #4.
April 23rd, 2018 at 4:06 pm
Or let’s say Barkley is top 3 worthy at the very least if not best player. His career and combine were off the charts like no other.
April 23rd, 2018 at 4:07 pm
RBs go bad after a few years. Drafting RB in the 2nd has no drop off. Your mind has been made up Joe on Nelson but you’re way off base on this analysis
April 23rd, 2018 at 4:08 pm
Now you’ve got me shaking my head Joe. Not at all sure where some of your conclusions come from. For instance …
@Joe … “How was it that Barber, in the final five weeks of the season, ran for four more yards per carry than Martin in some games? Both ran behind the very same blockers?”
Bob in Valrico hit the nail on the head Joe: they weren’t the same blockers. Looking at the final 5 weeks (like you did): Barber I think did very well (78 carries for 335 yds … 4.3 YPC average). If you look at the 5 games right before that, Barber had only 18 carries for 39 yds (2.2 YPC average). Hmmm, 2 issues there: not enough carries (hello Dirk) & crappy YPC average (2.2).
Barber played against 2 teams in BOTH 5-week sets: Falcons & Saints. In the first game against each, his OLine was D. Smith, Pamphile, Marpet, Sweezy & Dotson (our ‘regular’ who Martin also mostly ran behind). In those 2 games, Barber got 16 carries for 41 yds (2.6 YPC average).
Fast forward to the second 5-week set to close out the season. Against the Falcons & Saints, Barber got 30 carries for 124 yds (4.1 YPC average). Much better … but also behind a very much different OLine. Against the Saints it was D. Smith, Pamphile, HAWLEY, E. SMITH & BENENOCH. Against the Falcons it was D. Smith, Pamphile, E. SMITH, Sweezy & BENENOCH. IOW, 2-3 starters were different in those last 5 weeks.
Bottom line? Barber did much better in the last 5 weeks playing against the SAME teams that he’d played against just weeks prior. And he did it running behind a much different OLine. And BTW, he did much better when Sweezy AND Dotson were both on the sideline.
April 23rd, 2018 at 4:10 pm
Maybe if Simms could figure out how one out of every other pass he threw was batted down, he’d have a clue about this job.
April 23rd, 2018 at 4:18 pm
Well I’ll give it to you Joe, you certainly have a flare for hyperbole and the overdramatic.
How did Marpet play as a rookie guard?
Pretty damn good! So why would you expect anything less from Nelson?
April 23rd, 2018 at 4:19 pm
Thank you DR and Bob!
It wasn’t the same line those last few weeks! Not at all.
April 23rd, 2018 at 4:26 pm
unbelievable – Marpet was picked at the bottom of the 2nd round… which is where you can find pro-bowl guards all the time. Picking a guard in the top 10 is insane, and even more so when you look at the history and see every single guard picked in the 10 since 2000 has been a bust for the team that picked them, all of them has been busts. Also yes, every single guard in the top 10 has been as sure fire of a safe pick as possible and was an elite player that everyone said would be a pro-bowler from day 1, yet all of them failed to do anything with the team that drafted them. Risky pick + greatly overvalued = no way.
The Bucs HAVE to have a corner to start, if they don’t have a starting corner then the season is tanked before the year even begins. They should have gotten on in FA but they didn’t. I’d much much rather take the top corner on the board (Ward) in the 1st and whatever guard is available in the 2nd, who has just as much of a chance to be a pro-bowler as Nelson, or if you look at the history has a much much better chance of being a pro-bowler.
April 23rd, 2018 at 4:27 pm
Nelson at 7! Bucs gave up “170 pressures surrendered” last year, which was in the back of the pack. Protect Winston should be priority #1. NFL is passing league and trenches is where the games are lost/won. Fix the trenches and the long runs will come with Barber etc.
Barkley is not Payton/Sanders/LT so while he is good maybe VG he is not special like HOF special. Look closely at the OSU game for reference. If you take away the special teams play -return TD- he had one good run over 20yds….not exactly special and I do think OSU is about as close to a NFL D as you will get in NCAA. Special players have BIG games when team needs it v top teams. He did not rise to the occasion so to me he is a late first rounder.
Picking a safety at 7 is a complete waste and you might as well trade down.
April 23rd, 2018 at 4:31 pm
@Rod Munch
Wait are you saying Ryan Smith is the answer at running back? Couldn’t be worse than he was at safety. Seriously though I’m just joking
April 23rd, 2018 at 4:35 pm
@Rod-
I never said I was against taking a CB, simply saying that there’s no reason to think a rookie guard can’t hold his own, when we saw it happen on this very team a few seasons ago (with a late 2nd rounder from a division III school no less!).
What I have been saying, it drafting a RB in the top-10 when your o-line is in the bottom of the league is just stupid. That’s a pop-star dominik kind of move.
April 23rd, 2018 at 4:48 pm
Sweeptheleg, How are the owners responsible for winning the SAints game? they don’t call the plays. How is Dirk responsible? he called for a middle route to kick a FG. Jameis called an audible. So I guess it’s Jameis’s fault we are pick 7, not #5.
April 23rd, 2018 at 4:50 pm
LC
imo, safety wasnt that bad to were we have to spend a 1st or 2nd round pick on that position…..sure it can be upgraded but isnt tre boston still available?…..eric reid?(even tho he’s being black balled)….
frank ragnowG/C is a good looking lineman…..earlier in the draft process some had him going in the mid rounds 3rd or 4th…..now it looks like he’ll be a Friday night pick….either way, he’s talented….most believe he’s a day1 starter….can play C and G…..
I would rather have Ronald jones in the 2nd over chubb…..he’s more elusion and reminds mr of jamal Charles…..
all this draft talk is killin me!!!!….lol….
#NOEXCUSESIN2018!!!!!!….GO BUCS!!!!!
April 23rd, 2018 at 4:57 pm
@Rod Munch … “The Bucs HAVE to have a corner to start, if they don’t have a starting corner then the season is tanked before the year even begins. They should have gotten one in FA but they didn’t.” Amen to that Rod. But we don’t necessarily HAVE to use our #7 pick on a CB. Should still be starting CB talent there in Rnd 2 (our #38 pick). After that, kiss it off IMO.
April 23rd, 2018 at 4:59 pm
According to some logic…..fans should love Swaggy because he helped us lose to Carolina…..we might have been picking 10th……
So actually Swaggy jumping off-sides in the Panther game helped us….(sarcasm)
April 23rd, 2018 at 5:00 pm
Hilarious.
Winston took a beating, the running game sucked, but it’s still Martin’s fault.
I’d almost be fine if the Bucs drafted nothing but Big Uglies this year. The lines are that bad.
April 23rd, 2018 at 5:07 pm
#Repost
December 15th, 2017 at 5:15 am
While the defense is fresh Payton Barber’s numbers are rather pedestrian.
First Half
• 1st – Att:5 | Yds:16 | Y/A:3.2 | TDs: 0 | 1st Downs Rushing: 0
• 2nd – Att:15 | Yds:42 | Y/A:2.8 | TDs: 0 | 1st Downs Rushing: 3
1st Half (T) – Att:20 | Yds:58 | Y/A: 2.9 | TDs:0 | 1st Downs Rushing:3
Note: His average going up as defenses wear down
Second Half
• 3rd Att:30 | Yds:133 | Y/A: 4.4 | TDs:1 | 1st Downs Rushing:8
• 4th Att:15| Yds:57| Y/A: 3.8 | TDs: 1 | 1st Downs Rushing:4
2nd Half (T) Att: 45 | Yds:190 | Y/A:4.2 |TDs: 2 | 1st Downs Rushing:12
Note: This Before Games on
–18th, Atlanta
–24th, Carolina
–31st,New Orleans
Peyton Barber got most of his yards in the 2nd half.
Against a few middle of the pack rush defenses; and were suppose to have a parade now? Lol Ok.
But its gets worse, were talking about a Running Back & Offensive line having success at the end of the season. When most defenses are banged up & worn out anyway.
So….
April 23rd, 2018 at 5:08 pm
@813
I can’t take it man I just want to see what happens lol.
@DR
Without looking at stats Barber just passed the eye test last year and I don’t think it was the O-line holding Martin back at all.
Barber consistently would gain 2+ yards after contract and get 4-5 yards on runs Martin would get 1-2.
I can’t buy much of a statistical argument with that small a sample size. I don’t think Barber excelled due to better run blocking. To my eye he simply maximized the yards he could get each carry because he was falling through contact consistently and breaking tackles whereas Martin danced and fell over for minimal gains consistently and didn’t break many tackles at all.
April 23rd, 2018 at 5:16 pm
@Dewey Selmon,
Not a middle route and not an audible. The play was to go to the Bucs sideline for some yards and to go out of bounds to set up the FG. Winston decided to throw to the other sideline. It was a risky play but Winston probably figured, if not now, when? He was probably sick and tired of Koetter’s conservative not-to-lose play calls. I think he was sending his coach a message. Do or don’t do, but try not.
April 23rd, 2018 at 5:18 pm
It’s shouldn’t be up for debate, Barkley all day, get a friggin guard in the second, or fourth round.
April 23rd, 2018 at 5:30 pm
there’ll be talented CB’s in the 3rd round or later……
Kevin Toliver-6’2-200
Tony Brown- 6’0- 197
Taraves McFadden-6’2-200(may need be moved to safety)
Holton Hill-6’2-200
Jamarcus King- 6’0-190(sleeper)
Brandon Facyson-6’1-205(injuries hampered him…low risk high reward)
#NOEXCUSESIN2018!!!!!!!….GO BUCS!!!!!
April 23rd, 2018 at 5:37 pm
bucsfan1988 Says:
April 23rd, 2018 at 2:51 pm
I STILL wonder if GM93 or LVD54 could possibly be trade-bait in the draft for us??? Hmmmm 🤔🤔🤔
^^^Not with Beckwith hurt.
April 23rd, 2018 at 5:37 pm
It happened with Peterson. :-/
April 23rd, 2018 at 5:53 pm
Well, the same was said by everyone and their mothers about O.J. Howard last year.
The draft is a unpredictable entity, there’s no telling who will be sitting there at 7 for us.
April 23rd, 2018 at 5:53 pm
I hear ya Joe. And kudos for seeing it and calling out Martin even though it was a very unpopular view.
The problem is what are you going to do? If Barkley is gone there isn’t any other RB being touted as a top ten guy.
The second round looks flush with RBs but Licht knows he needs a CB and that position is a much bigger need then RB. It also could be very strong in round 2.
Trade down solves all of this. Maybe we will catch a break and get a good offer.
April 23rd, 2018 at 5:55 pm
Think I’ll slip in here and post my 7 RD Draft. Nothing earth shaking anticipated between now and Thursday night and since I have been reduced to Terminal Consideration, no one is going to see what I think so Here it is. For the record:
7 Derwin James SS
38 Nick Chubb RB
102 Ogbonnia Okoronkwo DE
144 Will Clapp OG
180 Quenton Meeks CB
202 Justin Jackson RB
255 Poona Ford DT
I’m going to eat well and rest-up for the next few days. Hope everyone comes away happy or at least satisfied Saturday. More importantly though I hope the Bucs can pick up a couple of good players. Enjoy, Go Buc’s
April 23rd, 2018 at 5:59 pm
If Licht nabs a Safety in round 1 our secondary looks a lot better and just might let us push off CB so we can get a rusher in round 2.
That could be why we hear so much about D.James. It’s surprising we don’t hear much about Ward who is rated highe4 by most experts. There must be something about him the Bucs don’t like.
Listening to more analysts this week and I’m in the camp that Davenport is the BPA for us after the big 3. Might put some LBs in front of Davenport if we had a need there.
April 23rd, 2018 at 5:59 pm
@Joeypoppems
I don’t get how you can be so down on such a flawless prospect, that you would say that you have an “awful feeling” about him being available for us I find so silly.
If he’s there for us, we should all be doing jumping jacks and celebration shots.
April 23rd, 2018 at 6:01 pm
Let all the losers show their love for Swaggy!!! Helped us get a better draft pick…
April 23rd, 2018 at 6:01 pm
Barkley will drop to #7. If the NYG are smart than a QB or Chubb make sense here at #2. The have enough picks to get a really good RB, as well as fix that line.
I wouldn’t mind trading back in to the first round for a CB or Nelson. But we will definetly be trading for more picks
April 23rd, 2018 at 6:02 pm
We can’t beat Carolina if our Guards are weak. Nelson at 7 BABY!!!!!
GOO BUCS!!!!
April 23rd, 2018 at 6:06 pm
@Lord C … “I don’t think Barber excelled due to better run blocking.” Didn’t mean to imply that Barber had BETTER BLOCKING in those last 5 games Lord C, but he did have DIFFERENT BLOCKING, as well as more carries in those 2 games against the Saints & Falcons. Reality to me is that Martin had lost ‘it’ last year, and I think Barber was hungrier. Our OLine was middle-of-the-pack (at best) last year, in both run blocking & pass protection. We NEED to upgrade at least 1 and preferably 2 OLine positions BEFORE this season starts.
April 23rd, 2018 at 6:08 pm
Lmao Chris Simms tho this is why this team is this team our bloggers talk and conversate with someone as trash as he was nothing Chris says should be put out or put on paper the worst QB in tampa ever
April 23rd, 2018 at 6:12 pm
I’m really not on board the Barkley train. I really prefer Sony Michel. I am afraid all of that hurdling is going to get Barkley knocked on his arse. I was surprised the guy can move the way he does at his size, but doesn’t look like he likes contact. Is he worth the 7th pick? Trade down if possible get Davenport and a Corner no way in he’ll you trade up for Barkely
April 23rd, 2018 at 6:15 pm
@DR
Agree on needing upgrade to O-line regardless; and I still think we need to spend a high pick on RB regardless. I do think our pass blocking was better than the run blocking by far; but that gets scewed at times because Koetter has so many long developing plays and deep drops that require excellent protection. They’d look a lot better with more quick passing scheme’d plays.
The run blocking was bad in general most of the entire year though. Too many backs getting hit behind the LOS too consistently. And it seemed our runs were very predictable to the other team.
I do feel good knowing we at worst have Barber/Quizz vs knowing Martin will get carries at least. I also am kind of biased because I was huge on walking from Martin before last season ever started because he look like he fell off a while ago.
Ideally we could land an OG + RB + OT in this draft and then we’re set on offense for years.
But we still need to also add CB/S/DT/DE in about that order. I just wish we had like 7 picks in the top 4 rounds lol… a trade back netting us an additional 2 & 3 would be ideal for these reasons
R1-S James
R2-CB Hughes/Alexander/Jackson/Oliver
R2-RB Jones/Michel/Penny/Chubb
R3-OG (Frank Ragnow)
R4-OT Alex Cappa
R5-R7 developmental DT/DE – PJ Hall/ Ade Aruna / etc
That kind of draft is the only way we really hit everything. Otherwise we’re going to still have some big holes on the roster
April 23rd, 2018 at 6:27 pm
@Bucsfanman
It’s posts like your response to swl that help me keep the faith. Sometimes I whine too much about trolls here when you consider the large number of great posters here. Some I do not necessarily agree with but they are entertaining and thoughtful.
April 23rd, 2018 at 6:38 pm
@BBB
I saw your Florio comment. You wouldn’t be getting my hopes up falsely would you? lol Last year I think it was NOSBOS and I….desperate for a running game…really wanted Dalvin…we came close. Of course we saved ourselves a lost season due to knee injury. The Vikes can only hope he comes back. I think he will.
April 23rd, 2018 at 6:41 pm
@Blake
The awful feeling is more because we shouldn’t be taking a RB top 10, not so much to do with Barkley.
But no prospect is flawless.
April 23rd, 2018 at 6:48 pm
VA BUC Says:
April 23rd, 2018 at 6:08 pm
Lmao Chris Simms tho this is why this team is this team our bloggers talk and conversate with someone as trash as he was nothing Chris says should be put out or put on paper the worst QB in tampa ever
_____________
We don’t ‘conversate’. We “converse”.
April 23rd, 2018 at 6:54 pm
@Joeypoppems
Normally I would agree with you. But there are extenuating circumstances when its a truly special RB prospect like Barkley.
And yes technically you are right, no prospect is completely flawless but Saquan probably comes about as close as you can get.
I am of the belief that a legitimate threat of a ground game would help out Winston tremendously, especially in the red zone. We need to get a player with All-pro potential if we’re staying at #7, I don’t care whether that’s Nelson, Chubb, Barkley, Fitzpatrick, or Ward.
April 23rd, 2018 at 6:56 pm
I have Yet to see a RB with a more impressive Highlight reel this class than John Kelly. More broken tackles, YAC, Stiff arms and Spin moves. I WANT this kid!!!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-jRr8UwgEVs
Hat tip to Feelthepewter for this one!
April 23rd, 2018 at 7:03 pm
@SB
That tape is genuinely impressive. If he were about 10 pounds heavier he’d be very comparable to Kareem Hunt.
April 23rd, 2018 at 7:09 pm
LOL….@StPeteBucsFan….
Neahhhh. For what it’s worth, everyone is entitled to think whatever they would like, of course if that “thinking” is worth a darn. 🙂 I’m gonna roll with my sense on Licht, his innate sense of lack of tenure and job security with the Bucs perhaps, Mike Florio’s rather animated response with conviction to a pretty regular conversation around Barkley, his sourcing, and of course, last but NOT least….Barkley’s completely unique abilities. And there weren’t RB’s last year, not Barkleys….
Go Bucs! Go Bold! Go Barkley! Go Primetime!
April 23rd, 2018 at 7:19 pm
THose numbers are so misleading, i wonder why he doenst put how many yards he had in those games?????? in the carolina game he had a run for 36 yards, the rest of the game he had 12 rushes for 17 YARDS….. 12 rushes for 17 YARDS!!!!!!!! Thats a terrible rushing game… Then detriot were he had a 4.8 avg he didnt even get past 60 yards rushing! smh smh
Joe wake up! its the O-line…. its ok to be wrong sometimes ur not a football expert just watch the games and keep lplaying your fantasy football let people who actually know how the game of football is played speak on it thanks
April 23rd, 2018 at 7:20 pm
@Lord C … “Ideally we could land an OG + RB + OT in this draft and then we’re set on offense for years. But we still need to also add CB/S/DT/DE in about that order.” You hit the nail right on the head Lord C … that’s FIVE (minimum) and preferably SEVEN ADDITIONS before the season starts. And oh ya, we’d still have minimum depth in most position groups. In any event, reality to me is that we can’t fix all of it this year.
April 23rd, 2018 at 7:44 pm
SB Says:
April 23rd, 2018 at 6:56 pm
I have Yet to see a RB with a more impressive Highlight reel this class than John Kelly. More broken tackles, YAC, Stiff arms and Spin moves. I WANT this kid!!!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-jRr8UwgEVs
Hat tip to Feelthepewter for this one!
————
Yeah! Guice light, imo. That is the main issue with Kelly…can he be an every down back because of his size. I feel he can….do the Buccs though?!
April 23rd, 2018 at 7:44 pm
Just one team stands in the way of Barkley and Tampa, the Browns, who Barkley’s agents have sent some not so subtle messages recently, then said, “Well when we said we don’t want Barkley to go to Cleveland, we really did not mean it.” PC cover to please do not pick Barkley, he does not want to play for you. I’m waiting for tomorrow or Weds, the Bills move up to 4, Browns move back to collect pics; they select a RB at the bottom of the 1st. Been my prediction for almost a month:
1. Cleveland Browns- Sam Darnold, QB
2. New York Giants – Josh Rosen, QB
3. New York Jets – Josh Allen, QB
4. Buffalo – TRADE FOR #4 – Baker Mayfield, QB
5. Denver Broncos – Bradley Chubb, DE
6. Indianapolis Colts (from New York Jets) – Quenton Nelson, G
7. Tampa Bay Buccaneers – Saquon Barkley, RB
April 23rd, 2018 at 7:44 pm
SB Says:
April 23rd, 2018 at 6:56 pm
I have Yet to see a RB with a more impressive Highlight reel this class than John Kelly. More broken tackles, YAC, Stiff arms and Spin moves. I WANT this kid!!!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-jRr8UwgEVs
Hat tip to Feelthepewter for this one!
————
Yeah! Guice light, imo. That is the main issue with Kelly…can he be an every down back because of his size. I feel he can….do the Buccs though?!
April 23rd, 2018 at 7:46 pm
This team is a little deeper then given credit for. Granted we do need a few starting caliber players but the depth is pretty decent when you look at it.
Not every position needs a big time play maker. In fact it’s unreasonable to think so. There is nothing wrong with filling a position or two with journeyman players that won’t break the bank. There’s guys at every position waiting for a team to come calling right now.
Another route to fill a position is to get castoffs to compete with what you already have. Get a bunch of bodies in Training Camp to Duke it out. A lot of NFL starters are found this way.
Point is, yes we have a lot of needs, but not every single one has to be filled in the draft. This seems to get overlooked every year at this time. After the draft they will reassess the roster and make more moves, some of these moves may go unnoticed.
What’s most important is using our picks smart. Licht has to be looking at CB as the hugest largest need. We have no players on the roster who w3 can rely on to play a down for us in 2019. You can’t say that about any other position.
April 23rd, 2018 at 7:54 pm
I can see the Browns drafting Allen (Wentz clone) and taking minkah fitz at four and moving peppers back to his true position at slot/nickel corner. The buzz coming out of ny is that theyll go barkley but I am not buying it. If the Browns go Allen/darnold the giants will select either darnold/allen. The jets then take rosen, though mayfield is possible. If browns stay pat with no trade from the bills, broncos will go mayfield, but could any of the big three. I dont see elway valuing a qb that high. If not mayfield then chubb. Colts could go chubb, db, or lb. buccs woukd then have nelson orbarkley left…barkley is the choice.
April 23rd, 2018 at 7:57 pm
Err elway valuing an rb that high
April 23rd, 2018 at 7:58 pm
Colts could go Nelson as well to help protect luck, but I lean defense with that pick.
April 23rd, 2018 at 8:02 pm
Every team in the league has just as many needs as the Bucs. The difference is good coaching/preparation. The Eagles get a guy off the streets last year after the draft that nobody gave a passing thought. 9 months later that player is their starting CB in the Super Bowl.
Meanwhile our Bucs are completely unable, until proven otherwise, to develope a Corner. Yeah Joe, I’m coming around to your opinion on that.
April 23rd, 2018 at 8:25 pm
You’ve got to agree that this is one of the more interesting drafts in a long time……we have really know good idea what the picks are going to be in front of us…..whether there will be trades…..who will be available to us at 7
Exciting…….
April 23rd, 2018 at 8:26 pm
@JimmyJack … “The Eagles get a guy off the streets last year after the draft that nobody gave a passing thought. 9 months later that player is their starting CB in the Super Bowl.” If you’re talking about Ronald Darby (2nd Rnd pick), he was acquired via a trade with the Buffalo Bills (Eagles gave up a 3rd Rnd PLUS WR Jordan Matthews. If you’re talking about their other CB starter, Jalen Mills, he was drafted in 2016 by the Eagles (#233 in the 7th Rnd). To associate that with your statement that the Bucs have been “completely unable, until proven otherwise, to develop a Corner” is a tad misleading JimmyJack. Kinda like mixing metaphors?
April 23rd, 2018 at 8:40 pm
Thanks for sharing the Kelly video. Kid has some moves and playing in SEC is no joke like Pac-10 etc when it comes to hard running between the tackles.
I think the only knock on him is the weed bust. He needs to go to Miko school. If he could be had in late 3rd or 4th then it may be worth the gamble. Will the Bucs wait that long to fill the RB position?….I think so considering the absence of the 3rd pick.
April 23rd, 2018 at 8:55 pm
@Blake……Kareem Hunt in a meaner version is what he looks like. I know a 4th rd RB sounds completely sexy but those runs are hard to deny. I must admit I haven’t watched full game tapes but he sure is an angry Runner! Nelson at 7 this kid in the third or fourth however Licht has to get it done. DB or DE in the Second!
April 23rd, 2018 at 8:56 pm
*un*sexy
Dam lack of an Edit button. 🙂
April 23rd, 2018 at 8:59 pm
Defense rules……I wasn’t talking about either of them two. It was Patrick Robinson, thanks for making me do homework.
My point was there is a big and noticeable difference between the Eagles taking a nobody and churning out a productive player while the Bucs are unable to field even a serviceable CB.
Your Mills reference only drives the point home for me. A seventh round pick starting in a Super Bowl. Meanwhile our drafted corners don’t even deserve to see the field.
April 23rd, 2018 at 9:21 pm
Nelson is the real deal. He’s one of, if not the, best offensive lineman to come out since Joe Thomas….and I will completely understand if they pass on drafting him and trade down. If they can get a 2nd and recoup a 3rd round pick in this draft I would trade down in a second. Even if they take less than the chart says, they need to do whatever they can to trade down.
If they can’t trade down and Barkley, Chubb, and Nelson are all gone, then I’m taking Minkah Fitzpatrick over Derwin James.
April 23rd, 2018 at 9:32 pm
What is going on with Winston?
April 23rd, 2018 at 9:34 pm
Defense Rules – There are basically 2 corners, from everything I’ve read, that are sure first year starters, that’s Ward and Fitz. Obviously there will be other corners that start, but there are 2 everyone expects to step in on day one and have the talent to play. As I said above, waiting until the 2nd round to get a corner, when literally the entire season (as the roster stands now) hangs on having a 2nd corner, it’s a huge huge huge gamble to take. A second round guard however, you expect them to come in and start day 1 as guard is one of the most successful positions where rookies come in and can play day, which is why they’re valued less than other positions. No reason a guard at the 2nd round isn’t a day 1 starter, but there are tons of reasons to think a 2nd round corner isn’t starting. Not that I’d spend a 1st or 2nd on a guard when the Bucs need a starting corner and a starting safety if they’re to have any chance in the NFC South. Ryan Smith and Chris Conte are literally the two worst starters at their position in the NFL and Ryan Smith is literally the worst corner I’ve ever seen and shouldn’t be on the field. Also how Chris Conte keeps getting playing time when he’s awful, it makes no sense. Get a corner, get a safety, the team doesn’t have to have a guard or a RB.
April 23rd, 2018 at 9:40 pm
To win , you must win in the draft
For us to be successful we must have 2 contributing startets and if we have 3 starters …we will make the playoffs
We are in the toughest dividion in the NFL… No question…unbelievably and statististicaly hard to imagine but 3 of our division rivals made the playoffs beating teams outside the division while playing each other twice
Carolina went to the superbowl e years ago and built their teams that manhandled both lines
2 years ago, atl went to the superbowl by hitting grand slams on 2 straight drafts
Last year, the saints was 1 of the top teams though losing by a fluke play but built a powerhouse from a historical great draft last year
We lost last year because of our horid 2016 draft and we got no production from our sophomore players….total 2016 draft busts by gump
“Run Forrest Run”
Thursday night is not going to be pretty here and in all tampa…..Kobe has a bad feeling Forrest Licht is going to have a brain fart
April 23rd, 2018 at 9:40 pm
gotbbucs – Every single guard taken in the top 10 since 2000 has been called the best offensive line prospect of the last XX years, and they all busted.
Leonard Davis went #2 overall in 2001 and he was considered a generational talent and as safe of a pick as you could possibly get.
He was a complete and total bust with the Cardinals and did nothing with his career until he went to Dallas where he had a couple of good years.
You don’t draft guards in the top 10.
April 23rd, 2018 at 9:42 pm
Johnathon Cooper, OG, #7 in 2013
Scouting Profile: “A four-year starter for the North Carolina Tar Heels, Jonathan Cooper enters this draft as one of the highest-ranked offensive linemen in the class. In fact, NFL draft analyst Mike Mayock has gone so far as to say that Cooper should be a realistic consideration for the Kansas City Chiefs to use the first overall pick on.”
Result: Bust
April 23rd, 2018 at 9:45 pm
Chance Warmack, OG, #10 2013
Scouting Profile: “Warmack should be an immediate starter in the NFL and an asset in the run game. He should upgrade his team’s ground offense. Warmack can blow defensive tackles out of their gap to open up running lanes. He is also great at pulling or firing off the line to hit blocks on linebackers. It shouldn’t be long before Warmack is a challenger for the Pro Bowl, which could happen as soon as his rookie year. He has the upside and skill set to be one of the best guards in the NFL. Warmack is a very safe pick and that is why he looks capable of bucking the trend that keeps guards outside of the top-20 picks.”
Result: Bust
April 23rd, 2018 at 9:48 pm
Rod, I agree with you about our Secondary, but Licht could’ve ‘fixed’ that already in free agency. He chose not to. Matter of fact, he’s made it worse by not re-signing Robert McClain IMO. He’s still out there, as is Breeland, DRC & a couple of others who ‘might’ be better than what we have on our roster now. I’m not even opposed to re-signing Jude & seeing what he can do in training camp. Reid & Vaccaro are still FAs too, and either of them would be an upgrade over what we have now IMO. Quite frankly, Licht’s whole approach to ‘fixing’ our secondary blows my mind.
April 23rd, 2018 at 9:55 pm
Defense Rules – McClain was terrible last year, zero reason to bring him back – the bar of being slightly better than Ryan Smith shouldn’t be a bar any team sets for themselves. But I agree on Licht, this should have been addressed during FA so the Bucs don’t have to go into the draft needing someone. However the good part is that they can take a guy, in Ward, who is the best at his position and they can do so without needing to reach.
If I’m the Bucs I’m taking a corner in round 1, a safety or corner in round 2, a safety or corner in round 4 and probably another corner in round 5. Offensive line and RB are not positions the team has to address in the draft, you can get a RB from anywhere (meaning remaining FA’s or UDFA) and offensive guard is not a must have, it’s a nice to have.
April 23rd, 2018 at 11:26 pm
Via Vea nuff said.!!!!!!!
April 24th, 2018 at 7:26 am
@StPete- I’m a fan of winning and apparently that makes me an idiot!
April 24th, 2018 at 7:58 am
Thats not the point, we don’t need a RB who is scared to run inside. Nelson is the best overall prospect in the draft and would make our interior oline a force not just serviceable with one Guard position in constant rotation. I really hope we dont draft barkley
April 24th, 2018 at 12:21 pm
I know which Joe wrote this article, lol.
Talent-wise, I think the offensive line is fine. It’s the health that is questionable.
Sweezy’s health is questionable. Dotson’s health is questionable.
Heck, we don’t have ANYONE who can fill in well for Dotson. We do for the guard spot though. So RT should be the first spot addressed for the offensive line.
That said…Nelson is a beast at his spot, so unless Chubb is there when we pick, Nelson is the best choice…because Sims is right…Barkley will not be there.
April 24th, 2018 at 1:29 pm
Me too Bucsfanman. LOL
@Rod That’s simply untrue!!! So I started to do the research because that sounded pretty far out. There is not enough time to research “what people were projecting” or saying about OG talent in that 18 year period.
There is clear evidence however how they fared.
In 2010 no guard was taken in the first round.
2011 Leonard Davis out of Texas was selected 2nd in the entire draft
Hard to call him a bust. He started for ten years in the league…six with Arizona and four with Dallas. If Nelsen is a ten year starter it will be hard to call him a bust.
2002 Kendall Simmons was taken in the first round 30th overall by Pittsburgh and he started for six years with the Steelers and then hung on for three more injury filled non productive years…hardly a bust though. Again five solid years out of Nelson would validate his pick.
2003 No guards taken in the first.
I grew bored Rod so I fast forwarded to test your premise.
Last year no guard taken in the first.
2016- Josh Garnett taken 28th by SF started 11 games
Germain Ifedi 32nd started 16 games for Seattle…no bust
2015 – Laken Tomlinson taken 28th has started 39 games over the past three years…hardly a bust.
2014 – No guards in the first round.
So I give up. The facts simply do not illustrate…
“Picking a guard in the top 10 is insane, and even more so when you look at the history and see every single guard picked in the 10 since 2000 has been a bust for the team that picked them, all of them has been busts”
That is demonstrably untrue Rod. Did you just pull it out of some dark smelly orifice because it’s not true!!!
And in fact over the past three years guards picked in the first round are all starters…same was true for guards in 2000 and the early oughts. I’m too lazy to go through every year to find a SINGLE bust selected in the first round.
Guard is like any position on the team…the higher you select the better the odds. If you do not value offensive line play OK…but if you want a solid OL you have to pick higher more often than lower. Don’t post some 4th rounder who HAPPENED to make it defying the odds. It’s no more relevant than saying we could always get a QB very late because Brady was a 6th round pick.
April 24th, 2018 at 1:33 pm
Bonzai
I think they’re looking at Sweezy’s replacement. Too much cap space and too many health questions. I think they believe Benenoch is a RT B with Dot being A as long as he’s healthy although the way Benenoch finished the season he may already be our right tackle.
As folks have pointed out if we get Nelson we’ll be really really tough right up the gut with Nelson, Jensen and Marpet. Three big mean dudes.
April 24th, 2018 at 5:39 pm
“But this Nelson folks are raving about, so a rookie guard who has yet to take even one snap in an NFL underwear football practice is supposed to play like an All-Pro right away and pancake block defenders on every play and never allow America’s Quarterback, Pro Bowler Jameis Winston, to have a defender lay a finger on him?”
YES JOE THATS THE WHOLE POINT
April 24th, 2018 at 10:05 pm
Clueless as usual. In one breath Joe says the right side of our line looks to be a problem this year. But then says we don’t need to address the problem… well whoch is it? Should we rely on Sweezy for 1 more season or should cut bait and get an absolute stud (even if it takes a year or 2 for him to become elite) Joe is reaxhing for straws and isn’t fooling anyone. Yes Barkley would help this team immediately. He is a very fine player and would be a welcomed addition. But even Joe admitted that the right side of our line is basically in shambles. Why the heck wouldnt we draft the best guard in nerely a decade to help solidify the o line. There is no logically reason to pass on Nelson if he is there. If so ehow Brad Chubb and Nelson are there at 7 then you might havean excuse to pass on Nelson. But that’s the only one.