Fresh Kiper: It’s Minkah To Tampa
April 21st, 2018
Joe had an all-football day Saturday (no Lightning hockey) that included Ryan Smith film study, followed by a Tums run and listening to draft gurus Mel Kiper and Todd McShay on ESPNU on SiriusXM NFL Radio.
Joe’s not a big fan of Helmet Hair Kiper, but he does command respect for his decades of work and he certainly is much more interesting in podcast or radio form than he is in short made-for-TV snippets.
Today on radio, Kiper and McShay went back and forth in a no-trade mock draft.
Kiper had the Bucs’ pick at No. 7 and insisted that Vernon Hargreaves is a bust as a potential impact player and the Bucs are too desperate for a proven playmaker in the secondary to draft Notre Dame guard Quinton Nelson (who was still on the board and went at No. 8 to the Bears). So he picked Alabama safety/cornerback Minkah Fitzpatrick.
“I can’t go against a guy who’s got incredible instincts and versatility,” Kiper said of Fitzpatrick.
So there you, Kiper fans. That’s the very latest from Helmet Hair.
Joe would be mildly surprised if the Bucs passed on Nelson at No. 7. But after re-watching Ryan Smith cover Ted Ginn, Jr. late in the season finale last season, Fitzpatrick or cornerback Denzel Ward suddenly feel like gifts from the football gods.
All-you-can-eat buffet available starting at 6 p.m. and runs all night long. Be there!!
April 21st, 2018 at 8:29 pm
I’d be happy…sure need help closing the backdoor !…no particular favorite….leave that up to the Bucs now…
April 21st, 2018 at 8:30 pm
I can not see us taking a safety when we’re so thin at the corner spot. I just can’t see it! But, hey, I’m not the GM either.
April 21st, 2018 at 8:30 pm
I’d be cool if we went DB over Nelson. Would be a huge lift for this defense if we can get a legitimate Top Ten talent for the backfield.
April 21st, 2018 at 8:31 pm
Definitely not a Bama guy but I wouldn’t cry if we drafted him.
April 21st, 2018 at 8:35 pm
Minkah has been my first choice since the Bucs tanked last year..
April 21st, 2018 at 8:35 pm
Dwight if the Bucs picked up Fitzpatrick he has coverage skills. He’s been talked some about transitioning to CB but most experts are calling him a FS.
No matter where the Bucs would play him he would give us more ability to makes make plays in the passing D. It would be a big help for whoever we have at CB.
April 21st, 2018 at 8:38 pm
Actually JJ I would rather have Nelson because he has been referred to as a “Generational” talent. I would rather have Nelson in the first (since I know Chubb will be gone) and the best RB or CB in the Second. I just think that an average RB looks Great with the best OL. Not only that but if Jameis had more time he prolly wouldn’t have had 15 fumbles this past yr.
April 21st, 2018 at 8:41 pm
Last year’s run game featured the JR Sweezy and Kevin Pamphile express lanes, fast tracking DTs into run lanes and into the Bucs backfield. With the current disasters as the tackle positions, a new center, and a guard moving back to the position after busting at center the Bucs absolutely need a difference maker on the line. Nelson will be a star, no frigging doubt. This nonsense about guards not winning games can only be spoken by those who have never played on an o line and who realize a player like Nelson elevates the game of all those around him. The Bucs o line is in shambles, even if we get a safety who ends up being a gamer (apparently this site has already gotten over the pain of the Mark Barron fiasco) to put that ahead of a functioning o line is ludicrous. We saw what the offense translated into as a result of the talent level that’s on the line, bucs need to do whats right and snag Nelson here no questions asked
April 21st, 2018 at 8:44 pm
SB…..I’m with you. I would take a lineman all day with a top pick. I’ll trust Lichts judgement. He’s done good on his picks.
Don’t think we can get past the second round without a DB. That position sounds just as deep in the 2nd as RB. Looks like it is a 50/50 choice between RB &DB.
April 21st, 2018 at 8:50 pm
The days are running out. Till the evening of April 26th. So I mine as well take the opportunity to mention this player named, SA-QUON, Say-gone Barkley. 🙂
Minkah is a great player, and fantastic character kid, in some ways, a similar mold to SA-QUON, just simply in his best way, a lesser talent, as no fault of his own. Coached by the absolute best in Saban at Bama. Only 22 players picked in the first round since 2009 (per ESPN today) versus the next closest school at 14 players in the first round.
But yet @SB knows that “Bama” isn’t where it’s at, nor is Saquon Barkley the “top of the RB class”. Heck no, right, they must both be wrong. Uh, huh. 🙂
I would like to have Minkah, who plays 3 positions well, but certainly NOT over SA-QUON, and truthfully not over Nelson either.
Go Bucs! Go Bold! Go Barkley! Go Primetime!
April 21st, 2018 at 9:01 pm
Fitz will help all 3 phases of the d.
April 21st, 2018 at 9:12 pm
Thats a good pick. However Barkley is the most overrated of the top 10 guys.
April 21st, 2018 at 9:13 pm
BBB
I’m with you if you can pull it off…just thinking Saquon is not going to last
Remember he started at the top pick in the entire draft until the QB derby shook things up.
SB and JJ If we cannot get Barkley then I think you guys have plan B. I certainly do not want to take any DB in this draft at #7. Nelson and the best RB we can get in round two will finish our offense. The rest of the draft can go to defense and there are still more CB FA’s to be had.
If we can’t get the big three and there is no trade down to be had then I’d just as soon get Vea.
There are a FEW game changing DB’s in the league…a very few and there are none in this year’s draft.
April 21st, 2018 at 9:14 pm
Kiper’s a bum, let’s hope he’s wrong!
Here’s what he had to say about Hargreaves
This is just a truly gifted cover man, with the ability to press or play off and really just mirror a pass-catcher all over the place,” Kiper wrote. “He’s been doing it since he arrived in Gainesville. The Bucs do have a need at cornerback, but there isn’t a team in the NFL that wouldn’t want this kind of talent on the roster.”
Ok so does he admit he was wrong about VH3?
I hope Vernon pans out- I think he’s having most trouble with his mental game and this garbage coaches don’t help
April 21st, 2018 at 9:16 pm
This must be the other Joe……because one Joe would rather draft a kicker than a DB @ 7.
I think if Nelson is there….we take him unless a great trade offer comes.
April 21st, 2018 at 9:25 pm
I believe you build a team in the trenches and wouldn’t pass on Nelson but I think minkah will be special.most Alabama defensive backs and safetys don’t translate to the NFL very well but minkah will stop that trend!this kid can ball and has huge play making ability,I wouldn’t be mad if the bucs drafted either one but I don’t pass on Nelson if he is there at #7.
April 21st, 2018 at 9:25 pm
With this defensive staff and their track record with rookie corners? Hell, Joe would rather them draft a punter at No. 7.
April 21st, 2018 at 9:26 pm
I will be so happy when VHIII proves all of you naysayers wrong this year.
April 21st, 2018 at 9:32 pm
I’m not gona be happy if they go corner or safety in round 1. I’ve seen the same thing with this staff. Hargreaves is alot better than he has played. I didnt like them taking him at 11th but man he was still a first rounder, talented. Gota keep going O and D line until this team gets tough enough. Cant outsmart em then gota beat em down. Hope licht finds a way to get 2 more higher draft picks so Dirk and smitty have no more excuses.
April 21st, 2018 at 9:33 pm
St.pete bucs,why would you want vita vea,a one trick pony that has no pass rush moves.what film you been watching?have you checked his career stats out?you think he can play in the Tampa heat?did you see his Penn state game?He got blocked 1on1 half the game.you vita vea fans are funny!the guy has no pass rush moves and won’t be over powering guards in the NFL but he is gonna be a great player.wow!!ok!
April 21st, 2018 at 9:34 pm
“With this defensive staff and their track record with rookie corners? Hell, Joe would rather them draft a punter at No. 7.”
Oh Joe..LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
But sadly true!!
April 21st, 2018 at 9:36 pm
I’m being good joe!but keep me in moderation!!
April 21st, 2018 at 9:44 pm
OK…..Joe. you are on record at least three times that you’d rather draft a punter (sorry Brian Anger)….
JBF must not be taking you seriously or they would be greatly challenging you.
I guess a punter would have been better than Johnny Football….but not a DB of the caliber of James, Fitzpatrick or Ward……
I’ll go on record with that.
April 21st, 2018 at 9:50 pm
Sweezy just had knee surgery. So did Dotson. If the OL breaks down again, the team will tank no matter what improvements are made in the secondary. Plus, you increase the risk of losing the franchise QB. And, you set up the new RB to fail. The film on Nelson is just awesome. If Nelson is there when the Bucs are on the clock, pick him! Then, RB in the second round, and DB in the fourth.
Most of the 2017 Pro Bowl CBs were first and second round picks. But, Richard Sherman was a fifth round pick. And, Chris Harris, Jr. was not drafted. Also, Pro Bowl SS Darian Stewart also was not drafted. This year’s draft has is a lot of DB talent. There is no need to throw a top pick at a spot that the DL improvements should take some pressure off of. Look for usable DB talent in the late rounds and among the players not drafted.
April 21st, 2018 at 9:52 pm
Can’t remember what his take on vh3 was prior to the draft. But hope he’s wrong.
April 21st, 2018 at 9:55 pm
Not happening.
The only way we draft Minkah is if Chubb, Nelson, Barkley and James are all off the board and no trade down offers come.
So basically impossible because if those 4 players are off the board – then some team will be all over us to trade up and get the 3rd QB off the board.
If the Bucs are going safety at 7 – it will be Derwin James – not Minkah Fitzpatrick. If they want a CB – then Ward would be the pick.
Minkah is a good player – but he’s not a good fit for this team currently. There will be better options available in a trade down or in drafting James if necessary.
April 21st, 2018 at 9:56 pm
One question that doesn’t get asked enough is what the Bucs do if the Big 3 are off the board and nobody is wanting to trade up for our pick?
Who do we take at 7?
April 21st, 2018 at 10:00 pm
Ward over Fitzpatrick any day. Nelson over both of them.
April 21st, 2018 at 10:01 pm
First of all, I watch Kiper’s mock drafts every year. Not because I think he’s good but he’s just hard not to notice. And every year he’s really off. Especially close to the draft. No doubt I wouldn’t love Minkah, but over Nelson? Hell no. Like I stated in an earlier article on JBF, national media know jack sh*t about Bucs and players. What do you want to bet Kiper doesn’t even know about our starting OG with a broke back last year and broke leg this year and hasn’t been cleared for workouts yet. I would rather have Minkah at #7 than Derwin James (who didn’t even come in for a private workout), but I don’t want a safety at #7 in general. If you want secondary in the first trade down to 11,12, or possibly 15 and get Denzel Ward.
April 21st, 2018 at 10:09 pm
Pickgrin, don’t say not happening!minkah can be drafted by the bucs and start over anyone not named Brent grimes from day one and has the versatility to be a great fit for this team.do some research and you will find out that minkah came to Alabama as a defensive back and started as a freshman!that’s right started at Alabama as a freshman. At DEFENSIVE BACK!He moved to safety only because of an injury to another player who happens to be on the Chicago bears.with the garbage we have in the secondary on this roster not including Brent grimes (calm down miko)Fitzpatrick would start over any of them!!so don’t tell us that he will not fit in with this defense or it’s scheme!I say bulls**t!
April 21st, 2018 at 10:12 pm
In Joe’s mind, drafting a corner with this defensive staff is akin to burning a valuable No. 7 pick. Joe has zero faith he will be developed.
Joe’s written this many times, just use the free archives for the detailed explanation.
April 21st, 2018 at 10:15 pm
SoEbuc,kiper might not be right all the time but I assure you he knows rosters and every teams needs.i will take your bet my friend!
April 21st, 2018 at 10:21 pm
OK…Joe, who is the punter you would draft? I guess you would simply cut Anger….maybe a trade?
You’re on the clock…no big three….no trade…..who’s your pick?
April 21st, 2018 at 10:34 pm
You pick, don’t care. He would still have a better chance of contributing.
What don’t you seem to understand? Joe is convinced these Bucs current defensive coaches cannot develop rookie corners. Therefore, Joe thinks it is a total waste of a draft pick at No. 7 to draft a corner. Unless the Bucs get new defensive coaches between now and rookie mini camp.
If you don’t understand where Joe is coming from, no additional amount of typing will help you, sorry.
April 21st, 2018 at 10:45 pm
Kiper is rarely right so this bodes well for Bucs and Nelson at 7. The right pick….best player available.
April 21st, 2018 at 11:00 pm
I understand exactly where you are coming from.
You once stated the Joe’s were in disagreement on this issue.
My way…..we draft the best CB or S in the draft.
You draft a punter.
In 2019…..if you are right, we have new coaches to develop my DB if necessary….you are stuck with your punter.
Lets settle this with a poll……..DB vs Punter @ 7….
How do you think that will turn out?
April 21st, 2018 at 11:10 pm
A no trade draft? That is so stupid because trades happen, so their mock draft is complete nonsense. Reason number 347 why the draft should happen first week of April, so these idiots can have real world discussions instead of this junk.
April 21st, 2018 at 11:15 pm
John meeks
Nelson might be the surest player in the entire draft. Kiper knowing the roster just makes it that much worse for all the ppl that listen to his mocks.
The possible surest player in the draft vs. a safety at #7??
Terrell Edmunds or Jessie Bates in round 3-4 for Safety.
1. Ward (trade down)
2. Hernandez
3. Edmunds/Bates
4. Walton
BOOM! That’s a mock for your ass Mel. Or at least what would be a beautiful draft.
April 21st, 2018 at 11:25 pm
Love the Bucs but I hate how you don’t give props to the other sports trams in town.
The Lightning are amazing to watch and you don’t even look at a close out the series game?
Maybe you and the bucs should pay attention because the lightning are the only ones selling tickets in this town
April 21st, 2018 at 11:45 pm
Minkah is a magnificent player but if we’re going with a DB, Derwin James may make more sense to pair with Justin Evans … unless we plan to play Minkah at CB
April 21st, 2018 at 11:56 pm
Keep in mind that Kiper thought the Bucs were gonna take Johnny Football Manziel the last time they picked 7th under Lovie; turned out he had the right college with Mike Evans. The fact that Kiper has circled this guy means that the Bucs would probably go somewhere else. Personally I hope that Golden Domer Nelson is still on the board when they pick , if not, call the Bills and trade down to 12 and pocket a 2nd rounder and still get a corner…..
April 21st, 2018 at 11:58 pm
Dave, anyone from Tampa is following the Lightning but remember this is JoeBucsFan not JLF…. Hell I even follow the Rays although they are likely to be in a race wiuth the O’s Royals, Reds, Miami, ChiSox and A’s to see who gets to 100 losses first and can make the most obvious salary drop trades for little return but until Stu moves them to Montreal or Charlotte I will back them…..
April 22nd, 2018 at 12:08 am
Joe Says:
In Joe’s mind, drafting a corner with this defensive staff is akin to burning a valuable No. 7 pick. Joe has zero faith he will be developed.
Your basically saying that ANY other coaching staff in the NFL could turn javion Elliot and Ryan Smith into starting corners. Actually sounds more stupid when you say it on the podcast though. I guess they teach height, weight, instincts and vertical on other NFL coaching staffs but hey guess if you say it enough you’ll stay to get other people on board so your not the only only one that sounds silly. Oh Ryan Smith was drafted and he’s fast so he should be good enough to start lol so ridiculous. I’d we draft a corner just so you can eventually shut up about it just not minkah
April 22nd, 2018 at 12:11 am
With the right side of the O L so thin, they cannot afford either. Now if they are forced to pick because there is not the ability to trade down They will go Nelson. Even with Nelson they will need a rt tackle. Much will depend on the trades prior to the Bucs picking. If there is still a good QB on the table and neither NE nor the Bills have moved up, there will be a trade partner. With NE, they will git more picks, albeit later. We have so many holes that I would rather have five very good prospects rather than one HOF potential.
April 22nd, 2018 at 12:50 am
I wouldn’t mind Minkah, if and only if the big 3 are gone… not a fan of trade down unless it’s really rich, but I don’t see pick 7 being THAT valuable that we’d be getting a ton of picks… but hey I wouldn’t complain if we did lol there’s definitely plenty of holes to backfill around here.
April 22nd, 2018 at 2:32 am
*********************
If they could get #12, #22 and #96 for #7 from the Bills and draft:
#12: Derwin James
#22: Mike McGlinchey
#38: Sony Michel
#96: Frank Ragnow
and then use their 4th, 5th and (2) 6ths on (2) CBs, a DT and a DE … and use the 7th on the BPA …
I WOULD BE ECSTATIC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
***********************
April 22nd, 2018 at 3:09 am
Fitz would be an rxcellent pick. Its not a sexy move but he would transform that back end of our defense. Look up the spot on Brett Kollerman analysis on youtube of the importance of having Fitz.
April 22nd, 2018 at 3:44 am
Derwin or Minkah at 7 if the big three are out and nobody is calling in a trade?
Hmm…
April 22nd, 2018 at 4:27 am
Neither the head coach or defensive coordinator teach all the game to rookie corners. It’s the defensive backs coach. If he’s not able to do the job the head coach can replace him. They haven’t. So JOE do you think it might just be the third day talent don’t have what it takes.
April 22nd, 2018 at 4:31 am
Derwin didn’t even come in for a private meeting.
April 22nd, 2018 at 4:42 am
I wouldnt hate the pick….but trenches still need attention….trade back, get Big V and Big Will, then Nick Chubb, then Jessie Bates. Guess who else will be out there in the 5th….CB Nick Nelson whose also pretty good, just needs to recover from a little injury.
April 22nd, 2018 at 5:31 am
@SOEbuc your information on Derwin James not coming to the BUCS for a meeting is incorrect. James did not participate in a workout–no different than Founette and McCaffery(?) but he was at the facility as one of the 30 official visits. As far as scheme fit, give me Derwin over Minkah any day. I’ve seen Minkah shy away from contact and tackle at the ankles. Say what you want about Conte but he doesn’t shy away from contact and neither does Mr. James. But if Nelson is still there…………
April 22nd, 2018 at 6:00 am
@STPete … “There are a FEW game changing DB’s in the league…a very few and there are none in this year’s draft.” Not bustin’ your chops StPete, because LOTS of JBFers have said exactly the same thing. So many seem to think that unless a certain player makes high-impact plays they’re just average (not ‘game-changers’ in other words). Too limiting IMO.
Bucs played 32 games in the last 2 years, and Brent Grimes has played in 29 of those. He has 7 INTs (with 1 TD), 1 forced fumble & 95 tackles (barely 3 per game). Has Brent been a ‘game-changer? Very definitely IMO. Why? Partially because of his results (1 INT every FOUR games) but more-so because of how his being on the field impacted our opponents. They threw away from him many more times than not IMO. When your opponent respects you so much that they alter their game strategy (and pick on someone else), you’re a game-changer. And yes, I do empathize with VHIII & Ryan Smith who paid the price for Brent being better than they are.
I’ve said it before: Bucs can’t lose if we end up staying at #7. People worried about ‘Best Value’ miss the point IMO. Bigger question to me is ‘Can we get an impact player at #7?’ I could care less if he’s rated #20 on someone else’s board IF he’ll be an impact player for us. LOTS of players filling that square will be gone by the time we pick #38, so our choice is to grab him at #7 or miss out. If we draft ANY of the Big-3, we win. If we draft Vea, we win. If we draft Minkah or a CB, we win. BUCS CAN’T LOSE AT #7 … unless Licht drafts a punter of course (please don’t put that thought in his head Joe).
April 22nd, 2018 at 6:20 am
No thanks. I’d be pretty disappointed to draft a tweener at 7.
April 22nd, 2018 at 7:01 am
ESPN and their “experts” are really awful. Kiper has no experience in football but ESPN has him as their draft expert.
The NFL Network has former NFL scouts Daniel Jeremiah and Bucky Brooks along with Mike Mayock and former Redskin GM Charlie Casserly.
April 22nd, 2018 at 7:06 am
Sorry, but this repeated stance about not drafting corners because this staff can’t develop them is just dumb.
April 22nd, 2018 at 7:31 am
I dont understand how anybody can think CB is not the biggest need on this team.
April 22nd, 2018 at 8:02 am
I would take Nelson over Fitzpatrick but I would take James over both of them. James is going to be a top safety in the NFL and maybe one of the best ever.
April 22nd, 2018 at 8:27 am
I don’t want a player at 7 if you’re saying you don’t know if he’s a safety, or corner. It’s also hard to judge how good he really is when you consider he had one of the best front sevens in all of football stopping the run, and getting after Q.B.’s. Does anyone remember how good Mark Barron looked playing for Bama compared to the Bucs? Those who don’t learn from history are doomed to repeat their mistakes.
April 22nd, 2018 at 8:51 am
I’ll take Ward over Fitzpatrick. We need a true corner.
April 22nd, 2018 at 9:18 am
NFLNUt: I think its very unrealistic that the Bills would give up both 1’s and then a 3rd. However, if we got their 12th and both 2’s i would be cool. That would still give us 4 picks in the 1st 2 rounds which isn’t bad.
April 22nd, 2018 at 9:38 am
The idiot Kiper had the Bucs passing on Nelson to take Minkah — with the Bears at number 8 obviously wanting Nelson. If that were really true what Kiper the Idiot says, Licht would at least swap picks with the Bears and regain the 3rd lost for JPP. Kiper. What an idiot. I’m going to miss Chucky berating him on national TV.
April 22nd, 2018 at 9:38 am
If any of the big 3 are there you have to pick one of them PERIOD!!
If they are gone you have to look into a trade down
If no trade partner steps up you have to look at BPA
If its Minkah I can be fine with it – BUT – he doesnt seem like a fit for this team at all (unless he can play CB outside) – and that figures into the BPA formula.
So my first thought is – no
Can anyone convince me otherwise???
April 22nd, 2018 at 10:25 am
I don’t see that happening. If Nelson is there at 7 the Bucs will take him. That allows Licht to cut Sweezy and free up money to go after Breeland or another better CB. Breeland failed the physical in Carolina due to a cut on his foot, that should heal by week 4.
April 22nd, 2018 at 10:29 am
I’m with Horse Liver
April 22nd, 2018 at 10:31 am
A hybrid Alabama DB who is a good player but doesn’t excel and anything or have a true position at 7? Been there, done that…
April 22nd, 2018 at 10:32 am
Fitz over Ward and James is a no brainer. There will be injuries during the year and Fitz has twice the versatility of the other 2. Get her done Bucs!!
April 22nd, 2018 at 10:39 am
Over James any day
April 22nd, 2018 at 11:10 am
I would definitely take Ward over Fitzpatrick. Need a true CB. That should be a priority. Hell I would take Landry LB from BC before Fitzpatrick. I think Fitzpatrick will be another Barren. We all know how that went, especially since they passed on Kuechly for Barren. But knowing the Bucs they will probably screw up everything.
April 22nd, 2018 at 12:00 pm
Derwin James may have come in for a workout and we didn’t hear. Same a Barkley we had no idea untill Licht dropped it on us at his news conference. Licht also was present at Fsu pro day.
April 22nd, 2018 at 6:10 pm
Mike Johnson
“Fitz over Ward and James is a no brainer. There will be injuries during the year and Fitz has twice the versatility of the other 2. Get her done Bucs!!”
I like that kind of mentality and Minkah is solid. I remember one game last year when our entire starting lineup had to come out for at least one play due to injury. Minkah is solid.
April 22nd, 2018 at 6:42 pm
@John Meeks
“St.pete bucs,why would you want vita vea,a one trick pony that has no pass rush moves.what film you been watching?”
No film that would change your observation. He’s a beast and so he obviously has a bull rush move but that’s it.
Most of the sites I’ve visited will agree with you that he is incredibly raw. But you can’t teach size and athleticism….But many feel he can be coached up.
So the real question with Vea is can Buckner coach him up and teach him some moves. I just believe Vea is worth the shot…could be wrong though if he’s not motivated to learn.
April 23rd, 2018 at 10:20 am
You can find a quality guard in rounds 3-5… not DBs though… or DE…. you use premium draft spots to find players fill premium positions on the field… NOT GUARD… and not a run stopping DT.