“I Know We Talk About Some Of The Idiot Plays He Makes”
April 11th, 2018
Ex-Bucs QB defends America.
More than a couple of Bucs fans seem poised for America’s Quarterback, Pro Bowler Jameis Winston, to screw up this year so they can holler themselves hoarse to throw the 25-year old signalcaller into Tampa Bay and for the Bucs to move on.
In fact, as Joe noted on Twitter, the lunatic fringe came out to play this week. Joe noticed a commenter Monday wanted the Bucs to trade Jameis for whatever draft picks the team can grab and then use the No. 7 selection in this month’s draft on Louisville quarterback Lamar Jackson.
Well, Joe can say with a full degree of confidence that will not happen.
But the frustrated Bucs fans are starting to hear their voices being recognized on national platforms. Take “PFT Live” for example, enjoyed by intelligent NFL fans weekday mornings on NBC Sports Network.
This week, the co-hosts of the show, former Bucs quarterback Chris Simms and the creator, curator and overall guru of ProFootballTalk.com, the great Mike Florio, discussed at length Jameis’ pros and cons and what should be expected from him this season.
Mike Florio: Jameis Winston has been slightly more boom than bust in his first three NFL seasons. I think Season 4 is critical for him. … [DeSean] Jackson has played for a lot of different quarterbacks and I think he has realized that maybe Winston wasn’t as good as he was made out to be. … It is on Winston this year. Jackson can still play at a high level. Winston has got to get him the football and get it to a spot where Jackson can catch it.
Chris Simms: There was an issue here between both of these guys last year. Again, Jameis Winston, I am still bullish on Jameis Winston. I still think he has potential to be something special. He makes too many special plays for me on a weekly basis and I know we talk about some of the idiot plays he makes – he has to get rid of those.
And right there is it from Simms, a bulls-eye. If Jameis cuts down on the fumbles and quits trying to force plays, he can be a very, very special quarterback.
Even with his drawbacks, Jameis is still the best quarterback this franchise has ever had.
April 11th, 2018 at 7:14 am
I can’t argue with Simms on that one. The question is, can he cut down on those idiotic plays?
Put in the work Jameis. We’re rooting for you!
April 11th, 2018 at 7:29 am
It is very difficult to change bad habits and that is what has to happen with Jameis. Some people can do it, most can’t. We need some luck here.
April 11th, 2018 at 7:31 am
The lunatic fringe also wants to trade Gerald McCoy. Warren Sapp was right — dumbest fans in the NFL are Bucs fans.
April 11th, 2018 at 7:34 am
If Jameis had Saquon behind him, and a complimentary screen game to Saquon also added, he wouldn’t feel nearly as much pressure to “do everything”. Thus cutting down immensely on the turnovers in general, and leading to much more total offensive production, and much more total time of possession. He has never had ANY of that.
Go Bucs! Go Bold! Go Barkley! Go Primetime!
April 11th, 2018 at 7:36 am
Jameis ain’t going nowhere. For us to be good Jameis has to play better. A running game would help Jameis play better.
April 11th, 2018 at 7:40 am
The solution is simple…..build a run game. Bucs keep dropping him back, he’s going to keep turning the ball over, that’s how he’s programmed. Instead of forcing throws, he’s been trying to extend plays which are leading to his fumbles climbing every year. They have to find a RB that can go all three downs and absorb 25 carries per game. Basically recreate what the Jags did last season for Bortles.
April 11th, 2018 at 7:43 am
Honestly tho with the same coach and same team do we really expect Winston to just stop making those bad decisions. He is the same qb he was at FSU and wanting him to be a franchise qb just doesn’t make it so. The year for him to show us who he was is year 3 and he did. NFL top fumbler.
April 11th, 2018 at 7:47 am
He doesn’t necessarily need to cut back on the bad plays. He just simply needs to make more good plays than he already does and win the games because if he does that no one will care anymore about dumb plays he makes. I for one think if Saquoan is their at #5 Licht is going to jump up and snatch he before he even sets foot on stage. From what I’m hearing on the news Hue Jackson wants Chubbs to pair with Garret. If the first 3 picks are QBs and #4 is Chubbs,I say we pull the trigger. Because at this point the browns will ask a Kings random for #4 unless they are fine with moving back to #7 and get Ward,Nelson, or Fitzpatrick.
April 11th, 2018 at 7:49 am
One thing I see that no one is pointing out. Next year could be do or die not just for Koetter and Licht but Jameis as well. If the Bucs end up having to clean house the next regime will have no ties to Winston and be less willing to put up with his mistakes. All in all, I still think Winston can be great if he cuts over those bad turnovers.
April 11th, 2018 at 7:53 am
Florio is just parroting the media dialogue at this point. I’ve heard this argument so many times. Everything is about DJax and his lack of production. DJax is culpable in this and to me the chemistry issues should’ve been predicted by Licht.
One could argue that everywhere else DJax went, he was the number one receiving threat. He didn’t have to work with the QB to get his touches. Meanwhile Winston has Evans, Howard, Brate, Humphies and Godwin who will all come in to OTA’s, put in extensive extra work to get their reps. Saying that Winston isn’t as good, because DJax’s stats are down is simply a fallacious argument.
Simms hits the nail on the head. Winston makes special plays, every game. On the argument he needs to make less SMH plays, absolutely yes, but this has been equally a function of how the team was structured around him and his desire to win at all costs.
Pourous defenses, poor running (aside from rookie season) and horrible kicking games have been a consistency during his short inconsistent career. Licht did a good job at strengthening the lines this off-season. Not picking up a top 3 (on his board) running back this season will be a huge miss. Then its up to Monken to modernize the Koetter offense. When I see Winston missing easy throws (something he just doesn’t have in the Koetter offense, and Ive watched every game’s coach’s film multiple times) then I will say its time to move on; however, Winston is asked to make timing throws, down the field, into tight windows.
Regarding the fumbles, they need to cut down. Signing Jensen will help. There were a ton of weird snaps last season.
April 11th, 2018 at 7:55 am
And the definition of insanity is……………….
April 11th, 2018 at 7:57 am
@Joe … “Even with his drawbacks, Jameis is still the best quarterback this franchise has ever had.” Bucs have had 4 QBs Joe who’ve won Super Bowls (Doug Williams, Steve Young, Trent Dilfer & Brad Johnson). Admittedly only Brad Johnson won a SB here, but (maybe) saying that Jameis is better than Young or even Williams might be a stretch … at this point in his career.
Certainly agree with Simms assessment though that IF Jameis “cuts down on the fumbles and quits trying to force plays, he can be a very, very special quarterback.” Need to see more of the Good Jameis & less of the Bad Jameis.
April 11th, 2018 at 8:25 am
Chris is correct.
Aren’t the turnovers about quality decision-making? How much work can you put in to rectify that? Maybe Jameis needs a shrink or Spences’ Faith-healer. Jameis puts in a lot of work; no one doubts that. Yet, his on the field and off the field decisions leave something to be desired. He has to calm himself and make intelligent football decisions on game days.
I would much rather holler after Jameis throws 32 touchdowns with six picks next year on our way to the playoffs. However, at what point do we conclude that he may have been evaluated incorrectly and he just is what he is?
I have been critical of Jameis as a fan because, I Love my team and I would love for him to eliminate the ridiculous turnovers on the field and all negative rumors off of it, as they both embarrassed me as a fan. He is still young and there is still time but, this won’t always be the case.
As another poster here commented earlier this week, Jameis might just be good enough for us to keep him and pass on a better player. Jameis is not the only talented young QB these days. Giving thought to replacing him must not be considered crazy but thorough, as everyone gets replaced eventually, sooner if you underperform and are in and out of trouble often, perceived or real.
Brady is almost always a bad example because, he is the ultimate exception to the rule but, don’t you think it took a lot of guts to bench a decent QB in Bledsoe for a younger, more talented guy in Brady? Don’t you think many scoffed at that decision at that time? Conversely, how many good years did the Packers waste of Rogers’ career while hanging on to the gambling Favre?
What exactly is a sure thing? Unlike many GM’s on this site I, admittedly, do not know. I am not paid to invest the time necessary to be a GM.
Jameis please, make better decisions!
April 11th, 2018 at 8:25 am
Yup I was that lunatic who suggested trading Winston for a boatload of picks. The part that was left out was how I would fill the drastic holes at DE, RB, OL, CB with those extra picks and then select the D coordinators worst nightnare in L.Jackson. plus you throw in our picks and maybe we have the quickest turnaround in NFL history. We aren’t going anywhere with Winston and if we wait till after the season we wont get much for him after another disappointing season. Cut our losses and move on.
April 11th, 2018 at 8:30 am
Jameis will never be a top 5 qb
He has Accuracey lapses.
He is such a tone setter though
When your leader outworks everyone.
I’m glad we have him
April 11th, 2018 at 8:34 am
24. he just turned 24. He will be 24 all season long. 24 guys. Come on.
April 11th, 2018 at 8:46 am
Get Jameis a running game…..significantly improve the defense…..
Jameis will only improve somewhat on the bonehead plays because those are driven by his highly competitive nature…..it’s simply in his DNA…..You can’t really change that much without changing the good about Jameis.
If Trent Dilfer can win a Superbowl…..Jameis certainly can.
April 11th, 2018 at 8:48 am
Eric Says:
April 11th, 2018 at 8:25 am
Yup I was that lunatic who suggested trading Winston for a boatload of picks.
So you don’t think Winston is good, but you think he will get us a “boatload of picks” ? Not sure I understand your thinking?
April 11th, 2018 at 9:02 am
Next season will be a huge one for not only Winston, but for Licht and Koetter as well. If the Bucs finish under .500 again then Licht and Koetter are both probably fired. Then the new incoming GM and head coach will have no ties to Winston so unless he’s had an incredible year then he will probably be gone also. Let’s all hope for the best on all fronts.
And JOE, please stop saying the absolutely ludicrous statement that Winston is the best QB the Bucs franchise has ever had. It insults the intelligence of your readers
April 11th, 2018 at 9:12 am
Once that threshold of “good supporting cast” is achieved – you will see Winston look like the star QB that he is and always has been.
Upgrades to the Oline, Dline and RB positions will immensely help our QB to play to his potential and will also greatly assist Winston with cutting down the # of turnovers he is “responsible” for.
Look at how flawlessly Winston played in 2013 as a red shirt freshman when he had a solid Oline and running game to work with.
April 11th, 2018 at 9:14 am
Jameis gets the blame for everything. That’s part of the job at QB I suppose, and part of what Koetter talked about with Jameis being responsible for them win or lose. That being said, there were plenty of missed opportunities between Desean and Jameis last year, most of which I hold on Desean. He wasn’t aggressive and lacked effort on making a lot of plays that fell (literally) right in front of him. I’m glad Desean hasn’t caused a lot of drama on the team, but I would not be sad if he was traded. He is one player that hasn’t made a case for his hefty paycheck.
April 11th, 2018 at 9:18 am
I would Trade Winston to the Browns for one of their first round and second round picks snag up Lamar Jackson this guy is like Speedy Gonzales with a arm he can hit DeSean Jackson all day long trade back a couple spots for another pic snag up Derwin James and in second snag up sonny Michaels and the best corner they have that would give us money to keep all the players next year that are coming up for contract be set for another 4 years we got to be realistic we not going to be able to keep some payer next year if we sign James Winston. With Lamar Jackson I think we can make it to the playoffs with all the weapons we have
April 11th, 2018 at 9:22 am
I think Jameis Winston needs to ease up on what is becoming an almost obsessive desire to make Desean Jackson productive.
As many others have observed, Winston needs to let the game come to him, to take what the defense gives him, rather than trying to force things that aren’t there. Forcing things is when mistakes, e.g. turnovers, happen.
Dirk Koetter and Todd Monken can help by adding more slants and skinny posts to Jackson. Then, if Winston can learn to hit Jackson perfectly in stride with the latter at or near top speed, we’ll see Jackson’s speed and ability to generate YAC in action.
Big pass plays don’t always have to be 60 yards in the air. Instead, hitting speedy receivers like Jackson, who turn a short gain into huge YAC, can be just as, if not more effective, than 60-yard bombs, because they’re easier to complete in the first place and cause the defense to worry about its underneath coverage instead of just its deep coverage to counter a weapon like Jackson.
April 11th, 2018 at 9:22 am
The Jameis bashing is out of control. The kid IS developing and has significantly improved in a host of areas. Sure, he still needs to work on keeping his feet/mechanics, ball security and play-to-play maturity, that’s part of an ongoing process.
Ex QB Dan Orlovsky was on local DC radio this morning and was talking about the upcoming draft- he specifically mentioned his time in Tampa with Freeman as an example of where a physically gifted QB simply couldn’t take what he was seeing in film and in practice and process it at the line of scrimmage. He was talking Xs and Os and not any contributing factors- bust noted that Josh tanked and lost the trust of the coaching staff because he simply couldn’t see what has happening in front of him, what Ds were doing, adjusting live-fire.
What no one talks about- and it’s absolutely stunning to me- is how, at such a young age, Jameis is able to understand what’s happening in front of him. Dirk hasn’t spoon-fed this kid. He has a ton of situational responsibility- protections, alignments and runs a pretty sophisticated scheme that puts a ton of pressure on a QBs ability to diagnose while routes develop.
Get Jamies a little more help up front- Q. Nelson + an RB and we’ll have as complete an O as any we’ve seen here.
April 11th, 2018 at 9:39 am
Joe…the quote in the headline….where/who said that ? curious didn’t find it in the story
It’s right there in the story. –Joe
April 11th, 2018 at 9:44 am
With no running game and the worse defense in the league “supporting him”, we’re fortunate that he doesn’t have more turnovers and stupid plays under his belt. Get the kid a running game and a fairly solid D and watch him flourish.
April 11th, 2018 at 9:58 am
If he makes more great plays and less idiotic plays he will be better.
Astute hot take there, Simms.
FIX THE TRENCHES, FIX THE BUCS!!
April 11th, 2018 at 9:59 am
How about poor 3/4 speed practices , they connect all the time in practice .The full speed practice discipline is def missing and that’s on the coaches . Must have full rush and blitzes or come game time you really havnt practiced the longer vertical routes realistically . The numbers Show It !!!
April 11th, 2018 at 10:00 am
I think what we’ve seen is What we’ll get.
Incredible plays, followed by bone headed plays.
And thats ok. You can win like that.
But
If I were Licht, Id ransom the farm to get Saquon Barkley.
He will erase alot of Winstons bad plays.
Plus he will let Winston know ,that he doesnt have to win it by himself.
Taking that pressure off Jameis would work miracles.
Sign free agent Safety and CB. Trade picks to move up for Barkley.
Then we have an excellent offense for years.
April 11th, 2018 at 10:01 am
“He’s 24”!!! So what?! He’s entering his 4th NFL season. The “youth” argument is moot.
No more excuses.
April 11th, 2018 at 10:16 am
Best qb ever for the bucs?? With all the weapons for Winston ,he has not shown up to make that claim!!.(.Keep it real)
April 11th, 2018 at 10:26 am
Doug Williams, Brad Johnson and even Jeff Garcia were better Bucs QBs considering they had lesser offensive talent to work with. I just don’t understand all the hype around JW. He’s immature, easily rattled, has accuracy issues and hard to coach with his stubborn insistence on forcing a play which usually results in a turnover. Don’t care for all his rah rah crap. Just lead by example (i.e. Aaron Rodgers).
April 11th, 2018 at 11:16 am
I knew last season was doomed the moment JW tried that no look, falling down end zone interception, each game it always felt like JW was going to do something stupid, sucks having that feeling
April 11th, 2018 at 11:19 am
@issic haggins
@bucsfanman
I AGREE!!!!!!
gotta practice how you play……no excuses for anyone this year…..
#NOEXCUSESIN2018!!!!!….GO BUCS!!!!!
April 11th, 2018 at 11:28 am
I tend to enter JBF from the back and work my way forward to the posts I haven’t read. IE So today I’m still reeling from that thread where Joe makes a plausible case that if 4qb’s are taken we might actually have a shot at Barkley.
Barkley would change EVERYTHING. First the missing running game of course should help #3 big time.
But there are other benefits…if we picked Barkley all the Jameis-DJAX stuff fades to the background. There will still be some of course but the pressure totally shifts to Barkley…our OL…and then #3 and of course enormous pressure on DK to get the most out of Barkley. Considering what he did with MJD in Jax I believe Koetter would be drooling to get Barkley into his game plan.
April 11th, 2018 at 11:28 am
And that was preseason
April 11th, 2018 at 11:55 am
Chris Simms has never produced an original thought that I’ve ever heard. Anyone on here could do that monkeys job. Thank daddy for your career.
April 11th, 2018 at 12:05 pm
Chris simms is one to talk!! His play at QB…I’ll move on. Bucs need a well balanced Offensive attack. Koetter must think this is 1969..a la Steve Spurrier or the..throwin Somoan era. You can’t keep Jameis throwin every down playin catch up. We gotta get that running game going consistently. Do this and Jameis completes more balls and maybe..his accuracy improves.
April 11th, 2018 at 12:58 pm
@Mike Johnson … “You can’t keep Jameis throwin every down playin catch up. We gotta get that running game going consistently. Do this and Jameis completes more balls and maybe..his accuracy improves.” Mike, a big part of the Bucs constantly playing catch up falls on Jameis. He’s a notoriously slow starter & oftentimes his turnovers dig the hole for us. Far too many of his bonehead plays (Bad Jameis) seem to occur in the 1st half, but once he settles in he’s dynamite.
I’m also big on getting a solid running game going early … to eat the clock for one thing, but also to help him get settled in earlier in games. There’s not a QB in the NFL who wouldn’t die for a supporting cast of weapons named ME13, DJax, Godwin, Hump, OJ and Brate. Add in a beastly RB & solidify the OLine (LG) and there’s no reason this offense … with Jameis at the helm … shouldn’t be kicking ass & racking up point after point. No excuses … inaccuracy, brain farts, etc, etc don’t cut it.
April 11th, 2018 at 1:10 pm
Last year everyone yelled about INTs… they yelled about how you can’t make those crazy throws… you must hold onto the ball and not force it…
OK, so Winston cuts down on the INTs, doesn’t throw those jump balls, but is behind an offense line that injury plagued and most terrible and plays in a deep ball offense where you have to hold onto the ball for a long time. Well that lead to fumbles, even if the fumble stats are fake news since they charged Winston with fumbles on plays he didn’t fumble, such as in GB when he handed off the ball to barber near the goal line and Barber boo led the ball and fumbles – Winston got charged for that since he was the last one to have possession, how many more plays like that happened. Plus you have the BS at Carolina were Winston didn’t fumble the ball and the piece of trash refs called it a fumble anyways.
I’m not worried about fumbles, fix the line, use play action passes before week 15, and stop making nearly every pass play a 7 step drop when the line can’t provide protection. Winston was much better last year and the numbers would have more clearly showed that without week 17s INTs when in a meaningless game he was forcing the ball to Evans to get him 1000 yards. Then again in week 17 we saw Winston be classic Winston and make up for his bad early plays, then ignore Dirk and win the game.
April 11th, 2018 at 5:41 pm
Jameis gives a hardworking kid in Tallahassee a scholarship:
That shows how immature and irresponsible he is
Check out @FSUFootballEQ’s Tweet: https://twitter.com/FSUFootballEQ/status/984165392921845760?s=01
April 11th, 2018 at 6:28 pm
Are we making a winning team or a HOF QB? I vote for the latter. Get better players and you have better opportunity to win (step1). Scheme up better and you have a better opportunity to win consistently (step 2), execute and make adjustments better and you have a better chance to win consistently (step 3)especially when the other team has better talent/scheme/luck. The QB is a PART of the first two keys but can be critical to the third. I would offer that all 3 are critical shortfalls on this team from last year. What was not a major problem was the QB. He needs to play better but he made adjustments and executed relatively well last year (not perfect, got it). He led the team to scores in the 4th quarter at least 5 times last year, only to NOT have the ball at the end.
I say again, improve the other facets and we win more consistently and Winston wins those close games for us when he has to. He has demonstrated the capabiliy to do so (in spite of some ill-advised throws or fumbles).
There are those that think since he was a number one pick he should win every game by himself. IMO thats not realistic when you have 10 other players on offense, 11 more on defense, 11 more on special teams, playcallers, coaches, weather, refs, opponents, injuries, etc. Those things are not excuses, but they are REAL variables at every level of football and even more pronounced at the NFL level…that’s why coaches and players get paid so much…to be a bit better than the opponent in EVERY variable week in/out for every series/play.
Long discussion to offer that we didn’t lose last year just due to Winston or any other single player. If we want to win consistently (vice only produce a HOF QB) we’d best dwal with all 3 steps. Off to a pretty good start on Step 1…shack the draft and its off to step 2! Exciting road ahead. Go Bucs!
April 11th, 2018 at 6:29 pm
Correction…I vote for the “former.” Sorry.