Jason Licht’s Ultimate Draft Question
March 18th, 2018
When it comes to the Buccaneers’ offensive line and running game, you just can’t fully trust what comes out of the mouths of team officials — and you can’t predict how they are evaluating what’s in front of them.
It’s a combination that drives serious Bucs fans nuts.
Some examples:
*The Bucs’ claim that continuity on the offensive line is critical but that sure feels like a pile of baloney. Just look at the in-game rotation of Evan Smith and Kevin Pamphile last season, and the decision to move Ali Marpet to center. … And now it’s apparent that free agent signing Ryan Jensen will play center — and Marpet will go back where he belongs.
*Doug Martin was brutal, banged up and suspended in 2016, yet he was deemed the Bucs’ best running back option in 2017. It was the wrong call (and Joe doesn’t need to rehash those wounds).
*Jacquizz Rodgers was given the game ball by Bucs coaches for his 16-carry, 83-yard performance in the Week 4 win against the Giants last year. Healthy Rodgers then received just 26 carries the rest of the season. That’s two carries a game — for a team that struggled to run the ball.
*Joe could go on with confusing comments from Dirk Koetter through the season, but that’s enough for today.
So here we are: Martin and Charles Sims are gone and Rodgers and rising and capable Peyton Barber remain.
It appears obvious the Bucs will draft a running back next month, but the real question is whether Koetter and Licht believe 23-year-old Barber can be their No. 1 back and rack up 1,000 yards.
That will go a very long way toward determining where the Bucs snag their new RB in the draft, and could greatly affect how they approach Round 1.
Keep in mind this same team passed on many running backs that could have helped them greatly in free agency. So don’t just assume this Bucs brass believes it’s aching for a go-to back in the draft. They certainly weren’t last year when they should have been.
When it comes to the draft approach at running back, the Bucs don’t need to blow any smokescreens. It’s already a roulette spin trying to figure out how they evaluate the position.
March 18th, 2018 at 11:25 am
Evry team knows we need to draft a RB, so they will fly off the board before our 2nd round pick and teams a little bit behind us might trade up in front of us to grab the one they want. I think Licht is going to have to be lucky to get “his guy” on draft day. He might have to trade up with NE at the end of round 1 to get him.
March 18th, 2018 at 11:28 am
I am sensing Ward, Fitzpatrick, or James in round one.
March 18th, 2018 at 11:33 am
Sony, Guice, N. Chubb or Penny. Any of those 4 we draft I would be happy with as long as the value is decent where we draft them.
March 18th, 2018 at 11:40 am
Leonard Fournette played in just 13 games last year. He ended up with 268 carries for a little over 1,000 yards.
I’m not comparing Barber to Fournette…just his results…Fournette is clearly the better back. But we do not need the best back in the league to establish a good running game.
Barber has a 4 yard per carry average over his career. He’s fumbled twice in two years…both last year…so no he doesn’t struggle hanging onto the ball. If Barber got the same number of carries as Fournette did in his 13 games….268 attempts…and if he holds his career AVERAGE…he rushes for 1,072 yards.
If we draft Nelson for our left guard we have three brutes right up the center of our OL. It’s going to produce a better running game!
We’ll find another RB…may not be a big “name” or superstar…may be another UDFA like Barber…a late FA pickup…again we do not need a star RB for a team set up to freaking pass the ball. We just need a running game good enough to control the ball late and create enough suspense and success to make sure #3’s play action fakes are believable or concerning.
Barber and a top ten OL are good enough to do that.
March 18th, 2018 at 11:40 am
I don’t know what people see that makes them think Barber is special. Average back with a tendency to fumble. He is not our savior.
March 18th, 2018 at 11:41 am
Licht needs to make Penny a buc.
March 18th, 2018 at 11:42 am
I think you’ve been in the biz long enough to know that the GM and HC don’t owe you or the fans any explanations that make sense to you. They will not share what they really think and want to do. There was no issue with cross training Marpet at C. Right now he is the only backup C on the team. Still need to get a G/C or 2 for the long term.
March 18th, 2018 at 11:46 am
For the long term good of the team they should draft Nelson if available and continue to build a young dominating line for a power running/play action attack that would benefit the health and development of Winston.
But a GM trying to save his job may reach for a lesser defensive player to cover for his past neglect and bad FA decisions.
March 18th, 2018 at 11:46 am
Pickgrin, if Licht targets one of those he’ll have to do it in round 2. I think they will all be gone before our current 3rd round selection. I do love Penny. I think he will be the only one of those that might make it to the end of round 2. Licht will have to part with his 4th to make it happen, IMO.
March 18th, 2018 at 11:50 am
Confusing comments indeed. Backs will go a little earlier this year i think after a few 3rd rounders had great seasons. Doesnt help that all the teams picking ahead of the bucs in the draft seem to need rbs. Might have to get one in round 2 unfortunately. I wish, for once, licht would trade down somewhere and add another pick or two.
March 18th, 2018 at 11:53 am
Trading our 3rd and 4th round picks to move back into the second round can get us up around the 53rd overall selection, a little past halfway through round 2. If we want to trade back into the second, pay attention to this part of the draft. I called it using the trade chart during the Aguayo trade. Didn’t think it would be for Aguayo, but I nailed the trade call. Just pay attention once the draft gets into the 50’s.
March 18th, 2018 at 11:53 am
This Buc Regime is under pressure. They are trying to..hold on to their jobs. Yes, Nelson is clearly the best pick but not a prudent one if Koetter wants to be here in 2019. My guesses are..we find a trade down partner, take a RB or reach on a DE with our pick. trading down is the best of these potential options. But where will we find that Partner? We shall see.
March 18th, 2018 at 11:55 am
didnt know Charles Sims was a FA thought he was still on the team maybe they resign him and bring him back if they cant get any other RB after the draft. If DK was a good head coach he would’ve used Sims like the saints used Reggie Bush get him in open space and he could be a major asset. I would’ve also like to see Sims on KR/PR because he can make anybody miss in the open field but the bucs have an incompetent coaching staff.
March 18th, 2018 at 11:57 am
I still say it comes down to coaching. The Bucs has basically the same offensive coaching staff from the Lovie days. Matter of fact, RB Coach Timmy Spencer, OL Coach George Warhop, TE Coach Coach Ben Steele ( Was OQC Coach in 2014) was on the 2014, 2-14 staff.
Why fire the Head Coach, but keep most of his staff?
They even promoted the OC to Head Coach
The Bucs has added talent at every position on offense
Yet they still struggle to score 20 points a game
Then they hire the secondary coach that Lovie had in Chicago
The draftees are important
But the coaces who are responsible for developing the draftees are more important
March 18th, 2018 at 11:59 am
***coaches***
March 18th, 2018 at 11:59 am
I think the FA moves have made it obvious that either Ward or James will be drafted at #7 (assuming Fitzpatrick is already gone) or they wanna go crazy and draft either the G or OT from ND to beef up the line even more (highly doubtful.) RB should come in the 2nd and be either Michel/Chubb/Guice.
March 18th, 2018 at 12:01 pm
To be fair, we thought they would obviously draft a RB last year after cutting Doug Martin and look how that turned out.
Where to draft a RB is the same debate we had last year. Its all about where need meets value for the position.
Last year I thought Kareem Hunt in the 3rd round was the best spot where need met value.
This year Rashaad Penny in the 3rd round is the best spot where need meets value. I will die on this hill.
March 18th, 2018 at 12:01 pm
Mike Johnson, Nelson could also be the best pick of Koetter wants to see 2019. I we get him the line is “fixed” and the Offense will have the best shot to succeed. Koetter knows his defense isn’t one player away but he might think that about the offense. That one Guard solidifies every offensive position. Koetter knows like we do that we will have to outscore teams to win. Drafting Chubb or Ward, witch I’m in favor of both, won’t change our Defense dramatically, especially next season. I think Koetters plan is to put the best Offense on the field that he can and pray that the Defense can force turnovers at the right times.
March 18th, 2018 at 12:08 pm
Fitzpatrick and 2018 kareem hunt will take us to the playoffs
Kobe Faker
March 18th, 2018 at 12:09 pm
Then certain people with the team shouldn’t text certain reporters whining about why said reporter doesn’t fall to his knees and slobber the organization with praise over the team’s every transaction.
March 18th, 2018 at 12:10 pm
Kobe..I like it!! Fitzpatrick is my choice for 1st round…
March 18th, 2018 at 12:20 pm
The bucs Will get their running back this year either in the 2nd or 3rd round.this class is very deep and full of talent!No need to worry about getting one unless you want Barkley, guice,or chubb.i think “penny”will be the pick but we shall see.alot of good talent to be had at the position!
March 18th, 2018 at 12:22 pm
Fitzpatrick is not a corner and we don’t need a Saftey that high in the draft. Ward would be the better pick, IMO
March 18th, 2018 at 12:25 pm
@JoeyPoppems
Right there with you on Hunt last year, and with Penny this year.
Posted the other day what a killer 3 round haul this would be if by the grace of God all the players fell to us.
Round 1 – Quenton Nelson G Notre Dame
Round 2 – Ogbonnia Okoronkwo Edge Oklahoma
Round 3 – Rashaad Penny RB San Diego St.
March 18th, 2018 at 12:27 pm
I think Koetter doesn’t want to run the ball, he wants a passing offense that runs when it has to/wants to, like GB and NE that’s why we value the pass blocking RB and pass catching ones over the other and we have 2 #1 WR and two more very good ones, 2 pass catching TE and we are making the O-line a pass protection first O-line. We are gonna pass the damn ball.
March 18th, 2018 at 12:32 pm
Why do people constantly say Barber has a fumbling problem? Twice in 170 carries doesn’t make a serial fumbler. Heck by comparison Winston has 31 fumbles in 1,544 drop backs. That is a fumble every 50 drop backs. Barber runs with Heart unlike anyone I have seen on this team since Alstott. SPBF is correct: get a better OL and Barber will do just fine. We are Not a running dominant team with all of the pass catching weapons we have anyway. All we need is a serviceable run game to set up the pass.
March 18th, 2018 at 12:41 pm
L SB it wasn’t the amount of times he fumbled but it was the amount of times he almost fumbled. He does not carry the ball in a secure fashion. As a full-time player other teams will exploit that.
March 18th, 2018 at 12:47 pm
SCBucsfan
“I don’t know what people see that makes them think Barber is special. Average back with a tendency to fumble.”
Where are you getting the “tendency to fumble”. He had two fumbles last year and NONE the year before. He may have fumbled at an inopportune time…kind of like Humps fumble or one of ME”s failure to hang on to a ball.
Bottom line is if you look at #3’s stats…I’m a fan but he does have some weaknesses”…you’ll see a LOT of fumbles as in 4 fumbles last year and 4 the year before. I think #3 will work that out this year…I think a much improved OL up the middle will also help.
As for Barber being special who said he was special? In my post in fact I said he WASN’T special…no Fournette…just that HIS AVERAGE for his career 4 yards per carry, combined with an improved OL would be enough for a 1,000 yard season.
That’s not some wild projection btw. That’s simply taking the numbers he has actually put up in his two years behind the BUCS OL…and multiplying them out over 250 carries you have a 1,000 yard season. I’m not saying that’s special…I’m saying it’s probably more than enough on a team that’s designed to throw the ball….franchise QB…newly re-signed Pro Bowl WR just entering his prime…Chris Godwin…potential future star…DJAX…and two terrific TE’s with great hands. This team was not drafted to “pound the rock”.
That is another part of my point. If Barber gets 1,000 yards it will be enough to keep defense’s honest enough to enable our passing attack to truly shift into high gear.
March 18th, 2018 at 12:55 pm
@ joey
The bucs would have drafted hunt in the third had godwin not have been there. The bucs had a 2nd round grade on godwin.
March 18th, 2018 at 12:56 pm
There are several good running backs in this draft, and I see us drafting one of them, depending on how the draft unfolds.
I would not be at all surprised if we start a rookie next year, at running back.
LOL, stranger things have happened in Tampa.
I still think Koetter did not know how to use Simms, but oh well, he is gone. I think on the right team, with the right coach, the guy could be a gamebreaker.
March 18th, 2018 at 12:57 pm
The only thing that is certain is we won’t draft a RB in Round 1 unless amazingly Barkley is there. He won’t be and I don’t expect us to move up if he slides past the Jets. I believe Guice is a strong possibility in RD 2. I expect CB or safety in RD 1. Ward from Ohio State is my expectation or James from FSU. I’m going with Ward. He’s got 4.3 wheels and CB is even more of a need for us. I’m going RD 1 Ward, Rd 2 Guice.
March 18th, 2018 at 12:58 pm
Rashard Penny and/or James Jackson northwestern
March 18th, 2018 at 12:58 pm
🙂 🙂 🙂
Although said many times consistently on this topic already, THIS Bucs fan will continue to reiterate that Licht still possesses the quality Barkley-grabbing fruit we need in the 1-4 round picks in 2018-2020! And until that’s no longer the case, well then none of us quite know yet, OTHER THAN Licht does need to keep his job, and few singular things can do just that.
I fully expect Jason to pick up another OLine and DLine FA after the cuts by teams following the draft, and the Oline overall is sufficient enough…..
….To allow mister SA-GONE Barkley to do his thing.
Go Bucs! Go Barkley! Go Bold! Go Primetime!
March 18th, 2018 at 1:04 pm
Blake, Okoronkwo is undersized for a DE at 243lb. Pairing him with Spence would kill the run D, unless you want him as a part time player on passing downs. The regime drafted Spence, so I can’t say they won’t draft a rusher of that size, but if you can’t have them both on the field at the same time is he really worth drafting? I guess it could work if you have a rotation in place, and we did sign 2 DEs that are “apparently” good against the run. I don’t know. The traditional 4-3 DE position has been weak the last few drafts. Maybe this is the answer? I don’t know.
March 18th, 2018 at 1:04 pm
@Webster
I also thought Godwin was worth a 2nd round pick. He was a steal in the 3rd round. I’m just saying RBs fall every year which is why, imo, its best to wait on one.
It is totally possible to wait too long tho. If they don’t draft a RB on day 2 this year I will be worried.
March 18th, 2018 at 1:05 pm
@Blake. If Nelson was there at 7, I would definitely and happily change my 1st RD pick to Nelson. I don’t think he will be though. I expect a 3 QB run first 3 picks, Barkley to Cle (I could see the Jets picking up Barkley too though) and then Nelson to Broncos who had a terrible O Line. I’m higher on Guice in second over Penny in 3rd plus I think we could get Og Ok in the 3rd rd. I don’t think he comes off the board in the 2nd rd and feel it would be a reach for him.
March 18th, 2018 at 1:06 pm
@Joe … “It’s already a roulette spin trying to figure out how they evaluate the position.” Not just how they evaluate the RB position Joe, but how Bucs’ management evaluates most positions. I feel a LOT more comfortable with how they evaluate Offense, than how they evaluate Defense.
Bucs right now have Barber & Rodgers under contract. That’s it. We need TWO more RBs or we’re in trouble. Personally I see us spending a 2nd round pick on a RB (unless Barkley is there at #7 which I doubt he will be … mock drafts seem to have either Browns or Colts grabbing him before we pick). But in the 2nd round, Guice and/or several other RBs will probably be there who could help us. And if a bruiser like Bo Scarborough is there in say round 4 (maybe 5) I wouldn’t be at all surprised to see Licht hedge his bets & grab a 2nd RB.
March 18th, 2018 at 1:11 pm
@Blake
Im up in the air on Okoronkwo. I feel like he is too similar to Noah Spence. On the flip side, more speed off the edge could have been what the D-line was missing since Spence wasn’t out there for most of the year. Plus it would be a mistake to rely on Spence to be, and stay, 100% healthy. As Im typing this I am talking myself into liking Okoronkwo for us more lol. I like Josh Sweat as a day 2 DE as well.
The huge hole at CB opposite Grimes is really killing me when I try to come up with different draft scenarios for us.
March 18th, 2018 at 1:14 pm
Joe Says:
March 18th, 2018 at 12:09 pm
I think you’ve been in the biz long enough to know that the GM and HC don’t owe you or the fans any explanations that make sense to you.
Then certain people with the team shouldn’t text certain reporters whining about why said reporter doesn’t fall to his knees and slobber the organization with praise over the team’s every transaction.
————-
Hell yeah, Joe! The team most certainly owes their fans/reporters the “why” behind decisions. They’re not required to give that to us, but when your favorite team is one year better than Cleveland since the last time we made. E playoffs, and 12 years since a double digit single season sacker was on the roster, it raises the question.
Belichick doesn’t have to answer to anything because he results are the answer. When the results are putrid, and your favorite team is a laughingstock, then the fans and reports deserve to understand “why” we sick so bad.
The Bucs FO needs to get it together. Signing Swaggy, keeping Martin were some of the dumbest decisions made. Right up there with not keeping Mike Bennett.
We suck, so therefore the fans deserve to know why. I share this similar belief for the Rays. They are tanking, and the post Madden/Friedman results have been awful. Win games, or hire a better PR department to relate to fans.
If the Bucs want to seek tickets, then they need to win some damn games. Too much parity in the NFL to be this bad for this long. This level of suckage is impressively sad. Go Bucs!
March 18th, 2018 at 1:14 pm
Barber is a between the tackles grinder. We need a 3 down back that can take it plus 20 yards by run and pass. Must be able to make explosive plays (+20 yards) past the linebackers into daylight
* Stop the draft the pass rusher nonesense. Lichts job is on the line. Our major weakness is replacing Ryan griffen Smith. NO PASS RUSH WILL BE EFFECTIVE with RSmith stating on the outside
Fitzpatrick>Chubbs
March 18th, 2018 at 1:14 pm
I hope I’m wrong, I do, but with Winston (who is a fumbe machine) and Barber we will lead the league in fumbles. Again, I hope I am wrong but that’s what I see.
March 18th, 2018 at 1:18 pm
Give Barber a full year as a feature back. Draft a RB mid rounds. Pair them together with Jameis, ME13, DJax, OJ, Brate, Godwin and Hump?
Just listen to the cannons!
March 18th, 2018 at 1:27 pm
Jason is a a scout and Dirk is a cordinater
They are in over their heads
March 18th, 2018 at 1:29 pm
Scbucsfan,
Winston’s fumbles are worrisome, but Barber has a very low for male rate. The goal one fumble he had last year was unfortunate, and I believe to date that’s the only fumble he had last year?
March 18th, 2018 at 1:30 pm
I am copying verbatim something I posted elsewhere. We have a new Defensive Line Coach and three new players to help create a new culture. I think this is relevant to this discussion as well.
___________________
This is how I see the results of various Free Agency signings and off-season trades affecting Tampa Bay. If the draft were to be run today the following is a realistic possible outcome.
1. Cleveland: Quarterback
2. New York Giants: Quenton Nelson, Guard
3. New York Jets: Quarterback
4. Cleveland: Minkah Fitzpatrick, Cornerback/Safety
5. Denver: Quarterback
6. Indianapolis: Saquon Barkley, Running Back
7. Tampa Bay: Bradley Chubb, Defensive End
The New York Giants choose to replace Justin Pugh and Indianapolis chooses to replace Frank Gore. Cleveland is the wild card here.
It could happen!
_______________
Go Bucs!!!!
March 18th, 2018 at 1:37 pm
DE Duke.E Wake Forest 2nd-3rd round.
March 18th, 2018 at 1:37 pm
Yeah Okoronkwo is a little undersized for the position. So was Elvis Dumervil. So is Bruce Irvin. Seems to me like we’ve made an effort to improve our D-lines size/ run stuffing ability with the additions of Allen, Unrein, and Curry.
Would it really hurt to have 2 situational pass rusher’s that come in on passing downs that can bend the edge and pressure the QB? I certainly don’t think so.
Obviously Bradley Chubb would be better, but that likely won’t happen, and pickings are pretty slim after him. I’m not sold on Marcus Davenport at all, and reports on Harold Landry are that he lacks proper motivation and maybe milked his injury a bit last year. Smells like Swaggy syndrome to me…
March 18th, 2018 at 1:40 pm
My wife being an Alabama alum, I’ve watched a ton of ‘bama games. I don’t think that over the past 2 seasons any RB has stood out to me more than Scarborough. He’s an almost-Alstott, and that would make him a huge asset if we could het him. My only concern about getting him is that he’s not the type of RB that Koetter seems to go for. The only way I see him being on Koetter’s radar is if he decides to go with a platoon of specialized backs to run specific plays rather than an all-purpose 3-down back as a feature back. That hasn’t been his M.O, though, so I don’t expect it. A Tide fan can dream, though.
March 18th, 2018 at 1:41 pm
As for corner @JoeyPoppems, Still holding out for EJ Gaines, but if we fail to bring him in I agree we will be in serious trouble at that position going into the draft.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B7KhbTMySiI
Also, just a reminder of what a player like Noah is capable of when healthy. Lord willing he’ll do a better job of that this year. I’d really hate to see a guy with so much heart and fight in him be plagued by injury his whole career.
March 18th, 2018 at 1:42 pm
Yeah wintergreen…..you could also see Indy take Chubb there as the solution to our RB.
And there is no way they want Barber out there rushing 250+ times. I think it’s ludicrous to even suggest it after how they used him last year. They are drafting one high this year, rounds 1-3. That’s my guess.
As to why they waited so long last year it’s my belief Licht always looks towards the future and knew there would be another deep RB class this year. The bigger problem was trusting Doug which I’m sure was part of the decisions made.
March 18th, 2018 at 1:46 pm
Regardless what RB’s the Bucs may get up with it won’t matter! Unless the Bucs build a stud OL, (Jensen is a piece not a Savior). Quenton Nelson isn’t a sexy splash pick at 7 but if the Bucs select him it will make a decent OL a potentially very good OL.
March 18th, 2018 at 2:00 pm
In my scenario, if Indy takes Chubb we get Saquon Barkley. If my scenario stands the way I have shown it, of course, we would look for RB, CB, G or whatever in rounds 2,3 & 4.
March 18th, 2018 at 2:03 pm
Mark Walton (Miami) in round 4 if Michel and Guice are gone. He was injured last year so he dropped a little I’m assuming. Watch his highlights though. Dude is a very tough lightning bolt. Especially if we could continue to improve the Oline. Whenever there’s nice holes to get through he’s gone.
March 18th, 2018 at 2:04 pm
“They certainly weren’t last year when they should have been.” – J0E
To be fair, Jacquizz Rodgers had a promising season in 2016, and Martin was coming back.
I think to some extent, they had to give Martin a chance to prove himself, just to show the other players they believed in second chances.
No excuse this year though.
Orleans Darkwa, Adrian Peterson, and DeMarco Murray are still there in Free Agency. Admittedly, only Darkwa could be a long term fix (maybe).
I believe the answer is in the draft.
March 18th, 2018 at 2:19 pm
The Bucs in the draft sill need a DE, two more corners and a safety – all three are needed before DE. You can get a RB anywhere, in the 7th round, in free agency in August, in a trashcan, they’re literally everywhere. Worse case you go into the preseason and don’t like what you see and you trade a 2019 6th for someone. Spending a high pick on a RB when half of your defense doesn’t exist is irresponsible to say the least.
March 18th, 2018 at 2:26 pm
I think one major difference between Fournette and Barber is that teams game plan for Fournette and take their chances with Bortles.
Whereas teams game plan for jameis and take their chances with barber. Next year when barber is a focal point he’ll prob drop to 2.3 ypc.
Wait! We just made a back-up guard who has played center for 1 yr the highest paid center in nfl history so that may bring barber to 2.5 ypc.
March 18th, 2018 at 2:29 pm
Trade back. Derrius Guice late in first round.
March 18th, 2018 at 2:31 pm
Trade back! Trade back! Trade back! Get more pics? We’re not gonna get a generational player of need at the 7 spot.
March 18th, 2018 at 2:38 pm
DB55
Nasty guy that was ranked 9th best C in the league last year where he played all 16 games. Go cry to your momma cus faithful Bucs fans don’t want to here that crap.
March 18th, 2018 at 2:41 pm
I have to disagree Munch. It’s not everyday you can find a game changer at RB. I’m not a college guy so I don’t know these guys well but it’s common knowledge that many of the RBs this year have a ton of talent.
Just look back last year at a similar draft class……Fournette, McCaffereny, Hunt, Kamari, Cooks. You’re not finding ability like that on the streets man come on.
Fact is we need a rusher and it’s a deep position. Yes our defense was bad and so was our running game. Get the best possible player at a position of need. RBs should be all over the Bucs radar if their any good.
March 18th, 2018 at 2:42 pm
Rod, I disagree. When you wait on a RB you get McPlaybook. Koetters Offense only works when the threat of the run for play action is there. A good RB will also help keep the opposing offense off of the field. I wouldn’t take Barkley in the first, but I would definitely take one of the “next big 4 RB” in the second. Chubb will be gone and the only other defensive player I’d take at 7 is Ward. Either way we still need a RB to set up the offense.
March 18th, 2018 at 2:44 pm
JimmyJack, yes!
March 18th, 2018 at 2:47 pm
Bucball……Tradeback sounds nice. But that’s only happening if there is a QB on the board. Chances are their won’t be. But then we get a great shot at that generational talent…..Chubb, Barkley. If not our consolation prize is Nelson who may not ever be seen as generational because of his position. Buc fans have more respect for guards then most fans do though. I know I’ll be doing a jig if we get Nelson.
March 18th, 2018 at 2:50 pm
Bucballbaby
I dunno. Nelson looks like he might be a generational player but you never know and possibly Fitzpatrick. But I would not be upset if they traded down and got some nice picks.
March 18th, 2018 at 2:52 pm
DB55……Hey I seem to remember Aaron Rodgers and Steve Young being only backups for a while……..Yeah I’m sorry I can’t list of Centers and lineman for you off the top of my head. QBs careers seem to get remembered more and I’m not researching nonsense.
You got a problem with how he played? Bring it on. Otherwise his history of development is basic babbling.
March 18th, 2018 at 2:53 pm
If we can trade back and still get Ward I’d be thrilled!
March 18th, 2018 at 3:13 pm
BuccaneEric75 – Dirk didn’t even use a PA pass until around week 13, it’s a huge part of why the running game didn’t work. It was run up the middle on every first down for the first half of the game, then when you’re down by 21 points at halftime throw on every down. If Dirk is the same lazy playcaller he was in 2016 and for nearly all of 2017 it won’t matter who is back there, not unless we can somehow build a time machine and go get Barry Sanders from 20 years ago.
March 18th, 2018 at 3:17 pm
Bring in the Plant High star and son of former Bucs RB James Wilder Jr. as UDFA and see what he can do. I think they did it when he first got outta college and it didn’t work out but there’s nothing wrong with this team trying to find good RBs off the street. CFL’s top rated player this past year.
March 18th, 2018 at 3:21 pm
Rod, pretty sure I saw Fitz using playaction, and that was before week 13. Winston used a lot of playaction against the Bills. It would work a lot better with the threat of the run. Most starting RBs are picked in the first 3 rounds, after that you could get Howard or McPlaybook. You CAN find RBs anywhere. You can’t find GOOD RBs anywhere, unless you are lucky.
March 18th, 2018 at 3:22 pm
The 4 players the Bucs sign have 21 years of NFL experience and 73 combine NFL starts.
Basically they are career backups
March 18th, 2018 at 3:25 pm
all the RBs in FA were average. I’m totally ok with them not over paying for one. That on of the decision i’m happy with.
March 18th, 2018 at 3:31 pm
I am impressed by the negativity of some of the posters. No matter who we draft they will say we should have drafted someone else. I guess it beats kicking your dog to get your frustrations out here.
March 18th, 2018 at 3:36 pm
Lakeland
“The 4 players the Bucs sign have 21 years of NFL experience and 73 combine NFL starts.
Basically they are career backups”
Building depth with young, healthy guys that are not bad players is a very good and needed thing for this team.
March 18th, 2018 at 3:40 pm
JR they will sign one soon as the prices drop
March 18th, 2018 at 3:59 pm
SOEbuc,
I usually agree with you, and I still agree with you.
But all of these guys are not young
Mitch Unrien will be 31 when the season start
Vinny Curry will be 30
March 18th, 2018 at 4:00 pm
Lakeland……We can look at your dark side of those signings.
Or we can look at what those guys have done lately. Last year they had 43 combined starts.
Personally, I don’t care what anybody did outside of our franchise. I don’t care how great or how poor of a signing it is on paper. I only care what they do for my team. You can look at stats, numbers, predictions and PFF grades all day and it doesn’t mean anything. If it did DJax would have broken off 4-6 eighty yard TDS last year and Michael Johnson would still be here at least as a serviceable DE.
We can guess all day but nothing they have done will determine how they perform as Buccaneers. If they can get the team to play at a more physical level it will be a big upgrade over the soft ass football we have been suffering through with this team.
March 18th, 2018 at 4:07 pm
JoeBeatsDeadHorses.com
March 18th, 2018 at 5:21 pm
If Barkley isn’t there take Nelson. Best pick
March 18th, 2018 at 5:22 pm
E J Gaines seemed like more of a priority to sign than Curry, but it is what it is. I am still with the trade up for Chubb, if he turns out to be a dominant defensive end this’s year and I keep hearing this is not a Superbowl team this year, if the offense plays like it is capable of and put points on the board, you just let Chubb and Spence hunt the QB since we have bulked up 2nd or 3rd, remember they said we are close and we “signed a kicker”
March 18th, 2018 at 5:44 pm
The Bucs most important free agent signing was the Place Kicker, since they have such a hard time scoring touchdowns.
March 18th, 2018 at 5:54 pm
No reason to trade up for Guice. We can get him with our pick in the 2nd round without having to give up anything. Ward or James in the 1st and Guice in the 2nd.
March 18th, 2018 at 6:04 pm
This is working out perfectly… we need 4 QB’s drafted in front of us. Expect Chubb if that happens! Start making calls Buffalo… Arizona… Miami!
March 18th, 2018 at 6:06 pm
Better Buckin believe it.
You keep thinking we will trade all these future picks for a running back. Stop being so dumb. We are not trading up. Do you really think the owners are going to allow this staff who are dead men walking if they don’t win to trade picks for next years draft away. What coach would want to come here next year with no first or second round pick. We are not trading up we are not one running back away from being great. Get over it it’s not happening.
March 18th, 2018 at 6:59 pm
Soe
this reminds me of when Lovie cut the oline and I said he made the team worse, I was chastised and ridiculed. 2 win season.
Then I said mcclown is a joke, chastised and ridiculed. 2 win season
Then we said Winston was the better q.b between he and Mariota, chastised and ridiculed. Winston breaks every rookie record.
I said vh3 was a joke too short, chastised and ridiculed.
Now I’m telling you that this FA season is a joke, but when we 6 games be sure to blame Jameis. Because “real buc” fans know exactly what they’re talking about, ALWAYS!!!!
Lol, losers literally like your a bigger joke than the Cleveland Browns right now.
March 18th, 2018 at 7:02 pm
Building depth with young, healthy guys that are not bad players is a very good and needed thing for this team
——————-
What young guys? These guys are all like 30 years old except for Jensen and you were better off keeping Marpet at center (since they’re the same player) and drafting a guard.
Are you just uninformed, never mind don’t answer that it’s very obvious.
March 18th, 2018 at 7:06 pm
******************
I think we’ll get Chubb, Nelson or Saquon at #7, so I’ll list three first 3 round pick options that all include an OG, DE and RB:
Option One: Saquon + Arden Key + Frank Ragnow
Option Two: Bradley Chubb + Will Hernandez + Rashaad Penny
Option Three: Quenton Nelson + Nick Chubb + Josh Sweat
Personally, I’d prefer them in the above order, but that’s just me …
*****************
March 18th, 2018 at 7:16 pm
DB55,
I agree with you much of the time but I don’t agree we would have been better off just keeping Marpet at center and drafting a guard … Jensen was the top rated C in free agency and wanted to be a Buc, you sign that guy! If we get Nelson in the draft we can move on from Sweezy and have Marpet-Jensen-Nelson which would be amazing …. but we don’t NEED to draft Nelson at #7 because we got Jensen and could draft Chubb or Saquon instead …
I’m just signing, Licht would have been nuts to pass on Jensen knowing he could get him.
March 18th, 2018 at 7:20 pm
CMURDA,
Guice will NOT slip to our 2nd round pick imho. He may go in the 1st but my guess is he and Michel and Ronald Jones III all go early 2nd and that we’ll have the option of drafting Nick Chubb.
And, NO WAY to Ward or Derwin with the #7 pick … Saquon, Chubb or Nelson will be available and we better take one of them imho.
March 18th, 2018 at 7:23 pm
Also, ANYONE advocating trading UP is absolutely insane imo.
The ONLY teams that should ever trade up into the top 6 are those who (a) need a franchise QB or (b) are one star piece away from legit SB contention.
Teams like the Bucs that have a plethora of holes should consider trading DOWN not trading up!
March 18th, 2018 at 7:39 pm
Disagree with you on both points Nut. Guice will be there in the 2nd rd for us. I’m betting on the fact that Barkley, Chubb or Nelson fall to us. I think all 3 are gone along with top 3 QBs. If one falls then great, otherwise I’m more of a fan for Ward. Assuming it plays out like I suggest, who do you take over Ward or Derwin. We’ll assume no trade downs in this scenario. Minkah maybe but I like Ward better.
March 18th, 2018 at 7:43 pm
Meh, you might be right. Guice may not be there but we would have to jump in over Detroit or Buffalo to nab him and he’s too much of a reach at 7. It would take a decent amount to move back in at 19 or 21. We have too many needs to trade picks away. I’ll live without him if he goes at the bottom half of rd1.
March 18th, 2018 at 7:48 pm
cmurda,
We’ll see who’s right … I say there is NO WAY Guice is available to us in the 2nd round and I am the guy that said Dalvin Cook would slip to the 2nd round last year when everyone was thinking he’d be gone in the top 10.
The Browns, Giants, Colts, and Broncos all need RBs, so I do think that at the very least three of the four 2nd round grade RBs (Guice, Michel, RJIII and Chubb) will be gone by the time we pick.
As for the 2nd point … I have little doubt that one of Nelson, Chubb or Saquon will still be on the board at #7 and if there not, we still would be crazy to draft Ward or Derwin as that would mean the final of the top 4 QBs is still there and in that case we should TRADE DOWN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
March 18th, 2018 at 7:50 pm
****************
EVERYONE say it with me:
“Saquon, Chubb, Nelson or TRADE DOWN!”
****************
March 18th, 2018 at 8:15 pm
Nelson
March 18th, 2018 at 9:00 pm
Nut
I guess we’ll see. I’m of the mind set the that highest paid center should have at least 1 pro-bowl appearance especially when there’s a 3x pro-bowl center available but wtf do I know?
March 18th, 2018 at 9:05 pm
I hear you DB55 and I would have been fine with Pouncey … but … Pro Bowl’s are popularity contests and can also be based on team records … Jensen isn’t a household name, period.
March 18th, 2018 at 9:07 pm
For example, that FB John Lynch signed last year to the stupidly over-priced contract had a garbage year … the 49’ers were measurably better with him on the bench than when he was on the field, yet he made the Pro Bowl because he’s one of the few FB’s voters have even heard of before … he got in based on popularity not production.
March 18th, 2018 at 9:24 pm
BTW, Jon Lynch was recently called out for being a disaster GM thanks to his horrible contracts on the aforementioned FB and drastically over-paying McKinnon … the Jimmy G contract is a massive gamble as well. On the flip side, Licht has a great draft record outside of Aguayo and locked both Cam Brate and Mike Evans up to incredibly fair contracts … just saying.
March 18th, 2018 at 9:24 pm
Yeah, the pro bowler thing is definitely a popularity contest. We all know that but it doesn’t change the fact that Pouncey clearly has more experience and is definitely a stud also. Stil,, Jensen is younger and was top 10 center material in his first year playing the position. You got to like the potential for a long rest of his career anchoring the line. @Nut, I am sticking with all 3 of those players being off the board with the hopes that Nelson is available. If all gone, I’m perfectly fine with trading down but I really like Ward. Those OSU corners have been pretty solid in recent history. We shall see. I’m going to hope that a miracle happens for Saquon to drop. Just can’t see it happening. Buffalo is ripe for the trade if 1 of the 4 QB’s are still on board when we pick. This is when that last second heave to Godwin to beat the Aints pains us. Not that I minded celebrating at the time.
March 18th, 2018 at 9:31 pm
^ Great post cmurda!
At present, my mock is:
Browns: QB
Giants: QB
Jets: QB
Bills (trade with Browns): QB
Broncos: Quenton Nelson
Colts: Chubb or Saquon
BUCS: Saquon or Chubb; whoever the Colts don’t take.
March 18th, 2018 at 9:38 pm
Peace out for a little while … binging a show with my kids.
March 18th, 2018 at 9:42 pm
Cmurda
Jensen is younger and was top 10 center material in his first year playing the position.
————–
Pouncey is 1.5 years younger and ranked 4th best center vs Jensen at 8th best.
http://walterfootball.com/freeagents2018C.php
March 18th, 2018 at 10:05 pm
Man some of you guys are so freaking negative! Every player has earned everything they have got and if nothing else we have added grit, want to and effort which already makes a better free agent class than last year.
March 18th, 2018 at 10:06 pm
DB55 I don’t disagree. You meant the other way around with the age. Pouncey is a great center. I think Jensen is no slouch though. The list you see is related to where they rank the free agent centers. Jensen was ranked #8, Marpet 10 and Pouncey 18. I like the move to Jensen at center and Ali back to guard. Plus you get younger overall.
March 18th, 2018 at 10:10 pm
DB55
“What young guys? These guys are all like 30 years old except for Jensen and you were better off keeping Marpet at center (since they’re the same player) and drafting a guard.”
Actually two of the four (including Jensen) are 26. What I would call the prime age soo…
Replacing Marpet back to his dominating OG spot with #9 C is a very dumb move also. Especially if we got Nelson.
And the list of your predictions is amazing. No one was thinking those same things. You should be in the front office next year.
It’s just sad that you have no faith in your team before the draft has even began. You’re a bandwagon fan for winning and losing seasons and I can understand how so many Bucs fans are like that not going to the playoffs in 13 years. Keeping faith in your team year after year is what makes you a true fan.
March 18th, 2018 at 10:33 pm
Cmurda
Jensen was ranked #8, Marpet 10 and Pouncey 18.
——————
I’m not following but I’ll take your word for it. You right about the age though I was looking at another Jensen. My bad.
March 18th, 2018 at 10:36 pm
…and these two D lineman are coming from the #1 run stopping defense in the Super Bowl winning Philadelphia Eagles.
March 18th, 2018 at 10:37 pm
Nut, I’d be willing to trade back a few spots if we could still draft Ward.
March 18th, 2018 at 10:38 pm
We need to draft Rashaad Penny. Simple
March 18th, 2018 at 11:02 pm
#1 run stop defense
———————
It’s all relative.
When they faced guys within their own division like Orleans Darkwa, Chris Thompson, Alfred Morris and Wayne Gallam they owned them.
When they faced guys like Gurley, Hunt, Lynch and Elliot they got owned.
March 18th, 2018 at 11:10 pm
Theres 3 different Buc teams
Theres Lichts team
– he keeps signing Run Stppers on Defense- even tho nobody is running in NFC south- at least not until the passing game has put them ahead by 3 TD. He is obsessed with Kickers. Loves Centers.
Not concerned about DEs at all- unless run Stopper- see Gholsten and Curry
Doesnt think RB is a concern. Meybe one in the fourth round. See last year
Koetters team-
– Agrees with Licht and Mike Smith- defense should be built to stop the Run. Doesnt think he needs any help at any position. Believes he will win the Superbowl, if guys dont get hurt, and Licht finds him a Kicker.
The Real team
Will remain Cellar dwellars, until they develop a pass rush. This is critical and top priority.
If Grimes stays healthy, snd Ryan Smith contines to improve- still desperate for 2 CBs and a safety- this is a red alert item.
I think Barber could be a featured back. In a two back system. Need another RB- this is also a Red Alert
Per Joe, in a previous article. A Buc Higher upper stated that the Bucs felt that Marpet was highly overrated as a guard. Wow.
Apparently they ( and I) thought he wasnt gonna develop into an NFL Center.
So, In their opinion- He was inadequate at Center and Guard. Despite fan affection for him and his story- is it possible that Marpet will prove to be another member of the Bucs” Cursed 2nd round picks”?
Even with Beau- we are still very thin at DT.
Really- Wr, TE( Brate and Auclair- Howard has some issues), and Lber are the only positions that arent a problem.
Smh