Kirwan: Defense, Defense, Defense
February 21st, 2018
Details how he would draft for his former team.
The Bucs are in a pickle.
The Bucs horribly need a defensive end. It’s unlikely Bradley Chubb will be available at No. 7.
The Bucs horribly need a running back. But the way NFL insiders — both publicly and privately — talk about Saquon Barkely, not even a video surfacing the morning of the draft of him using a bong mask would make him drop to No. 7.
What the hell are the Bucs to do?
Well, former Bucs scout and Jets pro player personnel director Pat Kirwan said the answer is simple. Kirwan, on his fantastic SiriusXM NFL Radio show, said the Bucs need to draft the best player available on defense.
Monday, a Bucs fan by the name of “Moe” called Kirwan (“Hey, Moe!”) and his co-host Jim Miller to ask if there is any way Barkley could fall to the Bucs, currently positioned to draft No. 7 overall.
Kirwan was direct. “No.” But then, Kirwan explained what he would do if he was Bucs AC/DC-loving general manager Jason Licht. He would draft defense and it doesn’t matter what position.
In fact, Kirwan said he’d draft a linebacker at No. 7. Why? Because the Bucs defense is so horrid.
“No, you won’t get [Barkley] at seven,” Kirwan said. “There are other good running backs in this draft but where you are sitting at seven, you are going to get — you don’t need a quarterback. So … [linebacker] Roquan Smith might be there from Georgia. You are in a really nice spot to get a good player.
“I don’t know if he fits your scheme as much but Vita Vea — look, I just got done doing [film study on] that linebacker from Georgia [Smith]. That guy is some football player. I could care less how many linebackers you have. That guy will be a stud. He is a good player, man.
“Tampa Bay for all practical purposes [had] the worst defense in the league. The tackle from Alabama [Da’Ron Payne] will be there, the linebacker from Georgia will be there. You can get a very good defensive player in this draft right where you are sitting. … My recommendation is get as many young players as you can [on defense] with those picks you have.”
This is certainly a unique take. It’s not like Kirwan is wrong. The Bucs defense was an embarrassment last year. The lone catch is, if you draft a corner, isn’t that akin to throwing away a draft pick? Joe will ask once again, what evidence is there this defensive coaching staff can develop a young corner? There is ample evidence they cannot.
As far as a linebacker at No. 7, on face value this is insane. Lavonte David is one of the best there is. Kwon Alexander just made a Pro Bowl and team officials believe he is the leader of the defense. Kendell Beckwith looks like he will be a stud.
But if defensive coordinator Mike Smith is as good as some touted before the Bucs hired him (two seasons of evidence in Tampa puts that claim in doubt), then you get Smith the best players possible and let him figure out how to use them. If there is one coach on this defense Joe trusts, it is linebackers coach Mark Duffner.
If the Bucs did draft this Roquan Smith at No. 7, then that tells Joe the Bucs most certainly are flipping to a 34 defense. You aren’t drafting a guy at No. 7 to be a part-time player and you sure as hell are not benching David or Alexander.
February 21st, 2018 at 5:17 am
Yes-Bucs should not draft a corner-what a huge waste of a high round draft pick vh3 is/was! He has regressed and was not coached up–hate to see that mistake get repeated.
I checked out some highlight of Marcus Davenport-damn that is a big dude–he could be coached up now that we have Coach Buc who knows what to do with a dude like that! The highlights are jaw dropping, seriously entertaining!
February 21st, 2018 at 5:23 am
No if they draft a linebacker they clearly are going to trade one of their linebackers. Kirwan is a strange man.
February 21st, 2018 at 5:25 am
I’m hoping the Bucs get an opportunity to trade down and perhaps pick up Davenport or Vea…..if not, I’m perfectly happy with Michah…..and, I don’t think he needs to be “coached-up”. I wouldn’t take the LB no matter how good he is.
I do agree that the Bucs need to pick defense if at all possible…..But, Nelson is a sure 10 year pro….and you never know what happens with the top 10 picks in the draft…there are always trade ups and there is usually a team that will draft a surprise player high. Chubb or Barkley are likely gone…..but not definitely.
February 21st, 2018 at 5:36 am
If Chubb is gone, you have to attempt to trade down and take Payne/Vea, then hope Key falls to the second or trade back up to get him. If they can’t trade down then it’s Nelson or Fitzpatrick. If we do land Chubb then they should attempt to trade back into the first, (using picks from 2019) and take Payne/Vea
February 21st, 2018 at 5:58 am
Payne or smith depending on the scheme take ronnie harrison in the 2nd..
February 21st, 2018 at 6:17 am
I think the firing and hiring of the dline coach is a huge tell come draft night. Think theyre going best dlinemen available. Most say chubb will be gone but Ive seen enough drafts to know thats no safe bet. I wouldnt be surprised if its vea or davenport. Im not a big davenport fan but if big buck can coach him up he could be a good one. All i know is there will be a run on qbs this year in the top 10. Teams will be trading up still too. At 7 theyll get the 2nd or 3rd best non qb in tbe draft. Hope its not a LB. Goodness we dont need another LB in zone coverage
February 21st, 2018 at 6:20 am
Draft for TOTAL defense and go the Free Agent route for a running back and two linemen. Successful Free-Agents allowed the Eagles, Jaguars and Rams to immediately compete for a Super Bowl…and the Eagles won it. Free Agents got all three teams into immediate contention.
February 21st, 2018 at 6:23 am
Pat Kirwan is no longer in the NFL for a reason!!!
February 21st, 2018 at 6:24 am
If they had a half decent dc, I wouldn’t even think twice and say dline, but since all of the talent on that side of the ball is wasted, take Barkley and help out Jameis. Sign Talib and Grimes
February 21st, 2018 at 6:28 am
It’ll be Vea, Edmunds or Ward @ #7. Bucs are switching to a 3-4.
February 21st, 2018 at 6:50 am
I would take DaRon Payne at 7 all day long. He’s a beast! The Bucs D was at its best when we were deepest at the D tackle position. Our pass rush was horrible because QBs could step up in the pocket with no worries. Bucs brought in Baker but that was a fail (right idea but wrong player). I would trade back if possible but if not I would jump all over drafting Payne.
February 21st, 2018 at 6:57 am
Coming around to vita vea. . 340 lbs behemoth that runs 4.9 and is strongest player in draft. And he can get to qb. We have issue with stopping run up middle.
Played special teams for Washington and believe he was a captain Could you imagine that push up the middle with McCoy next to him. Qbs would snap the ball and immediately roll out left or right.
February 21st, 2018 at 8:10 am
I LOVE Kirwan’s take on this (draft D-E-F-E-N-S-E) but a Linebacker? With so many other needs, that should be really low on our priorities. A DT like Vea or Payne? On-board with that totally. A CB like Minkah Fitzpatrick? No problem, go for it. And of course IF Chubb is there (he won’t be) that’s a no-brainer. But a Linebacker? Could be the greatest LB in the world, but if he’s operating behind a lame DLine or in front of a lame Secondary no one will notice.
February 21st, 2018 at 8:13 am
I’m no coach, or even near that, no specialist, no analyst and so on BUT
if we can :
– improve a bit our DLine on free agency,
– recruit properly DBS in free agency
– switch to a 3-4 defense with an healthy Noah Spence on one side, Kwon, and Beckwith, inside, and Lavonte david on the other side,
– add a new young talented guy in the rotation,
we can be happy with our LBs corps (one point of satisfaction last year).
If you add some spare guys like adarius glanton, … I think we will have a more impressive defense.
After all, we can’t do worst, right ?
February 21st, 2018 at 8:44 am
I could see drafting a LB if the intent is to switch him to a DE. It’s not like that doesn’t happen all the time.
But we all know Joe wants a RB in round one. He will every year until he gets his way, lol
I feel a FA RB would do the job this year, and maybe if they feel good about one late in the draft.
There are DE options for us in rounds 1 & 2. Some might feel we’d have to reach in round one, but I don’t care. If its the right guy and he won’t be there when you next pick, you take him.
No one will complain when he’s getting 14 sacks.
February 21st, 2018 at 8:46 am
We won’t be switching to 34.
February 21st, 2018 at 8:59 am
Chubb, derwin, or trade back
February 21st, 2018 at 9:01 am
While I agree with Kirwan on how good Roquan Smith is, it would be a bad pick for the Bucs at 7. LB is the only position that doesnt need to be addressed on this team.
I also agree that defense should be the focus of our 1st and 2nd round picks. DT and DE to be specific imo.
Im expecting them to go the FA route to find a starting RB and maybe they draft a RB on Day 3 to fill a specific role.
As far as OL goes, maybe they look at a vet in FA like Josh Sitton to hold down LG.
And of course the secondary should be fixed through FA. They have to sign 2 starting CBs. And yes, I do still hold out hope that they bring Grimes back.
February 21st, 2018 at 9:19 am
if chubb and nelson are gone, trade down….I understand why people want vea but another player that can provide the same impact but has more versatility is taven bryan….scouts are comparing him to jj watt but stronger….can play inside DT or outside DE….can play 34 or 43…..has a mean/nasty streak to him….he’s projected going in the late first early second…..
#NOEXCUSESIN2018!!!!….GO BUCS!!!!
February 21st, 2018 at 9:20 am
We have needs on the O-line as well. Nelson. This road grader could make our RBs better for the next decade.
February 21st, 2018 at 9:27 am
If the Bucs commit fully to switching to a 3-4 front defense, then the “real” fans will give this regime 2 years to get the roster and scheme installed!!!!!! 2 year extension to all coaches!!!!!!
Make the best choice and switch to the 3-4!!!!!!!
GO Bucs!!!!!!!!!!!
February 21st, 2018 at 9:36 am
The Buc Realist Says:
February 21st, 2018 at 9:27 am
If the Bucs commit fully to switching to a 3-4 front defense, then the “real” fans will give this regime 2 years to get the roster and scheme installed!!!!!! 2 year extension to all coaches!!!!!!
NAWL BRUH!!!!!…..don’t start this BS already….EXCUSES IN FEB!!!!!!switching to 34 is no excuse to have a lousy season….this staff “ONLY” has 2018 to get us to the playoffs…..they know it…the team knows it….the “REAL FANS” know it….
#NOEXCUSESIN2018!!!!!!….GO BUCS!!!!
February 21st, 2018 at 9:37 am
I hold out hope that eventually some of you guys will realize that there are 2 different DT positions. We need a NT not another 3-Tech. GMC, while a lot of fans want him gone, most likely isnt going anywhere and he is our 3-Tech.
A lot of fans want to sign guys like Suh or draft guys like Mo Hurst or now Taven Bryan. They all play the same position as GMC.
Do you really want to pay a guy big money (Suh) or use a high draft pick on a guy (Hurst/Bryan) to rotate with GMC?
February 21st, 2018 at 9:39 am
When it comes to drafting in the top 10, I have a few thoughts. 1) Keep an open mind. I took the last five drafts, compared the actual picks to an average prospect rank. Used ESPN, CBS, Draft tech and several mock drafts to formulate an equation to compare consensus ranking to actual picks. The standard deviation was +/- 4.8 draft positions over 5 years. 2) What that says is O J Howard drop was predictable, that variations in who goes where is often a total surprise, and there are no experts prior to the draft that you can truly bet on. 3) Even Mayock, Kiper, McShay, and 29 others I track are consistently wrong. All I’m saying is Don’t totally give up on Grubb or Barkley, and BAP logic from 31 other War Rooms. We have all been amazed by abstract predictions in the first day. We have all been amazed at the incredible talent found in the 2nd and 3rd Rds. After all that’s what makes the NFL Draft one of the most popular spectator sporting events of the year.
February 21st, 2018 at 9:40 am
A sure-fire path to more frustration: reaching @7. Take the best football player whoever he is, regardless of position. And, btw, I don’t see any QB’s that fit that criteria. Even the ones drafted lower.
February 21st, 2018 at 9:40 am
And this team isnt close to having the roster to run a 34 defense so I dont get why people keep begging for it.
I swear people keep begging for 34 defense because we have 4 good LBs if you include Noah Spence.
We dont have any of the horses we would need on the DL to run a 34 defense.
February 21st, 2018 at 9:48 am
Why does drafting Smith determine whether we switch a 34? We could easily run a 34 right now if we wanted to, it’s a matter of player(s)/coaches not wanting to do it.
February 21st, 2018 at 9:49 am
@joeypoppems
and they don’t have the horses pm DL to run a 43 defense!!!!!!!!! And GMC is going into his 9th season, compared to Sapp who already won a superbowl and was going into his last year with the Bucs and a major decline in production!!!!!!!!
Trade GMC before it becomes 1 year to late!!!!!!!!!
GO Bucs!!!!!!!!!!!!!
February 21st, 2018 at 9:52 am
Stop with the trade back! Chicago, SF and Oak do not need QB’s. Why would anyone jump them just to trade with us? No one needs the #7 pick when you can trade with 8,9 or 10.
February 21st, 2018 at 10:06 am
I know people think I am being a McCoy hater but if we could trade him for even a 2nd round pick and go all in on the 3-4 we could have a huge turnaround with this defense. I mean Spence and LVD as the outside backers with Kwon and Beckwidth on the inside. Then we could really draft Vita Vea to play the nose in the 3-4 as we already have Gholston to play one end and we could use that extra 2nd round pick from McCoy to pick the other end and then keep Ayers to rotate between the two with Stevie T as the backup nose. I mean that would be much much better than anything are going to be able to put out there in a 4-3 no matter what we do in the draft or free agency. Now if McCoy wants to be a team player and play end in the 3-4 I would be glad to keep him but I think we all know how he feels about that option.
February 21st, 2018 at 10:19 am
Everyone is sleeping on Derwin James- he is Jalen Ramsey 2.0. If we trade back- may be able to get him anyway. I would take Chubb, Nelson or trade back. If we can’t find a trade partner, I would take Ricky Aguayo. okay just kidding, I would grab either James or Fitzpatrick begrudgingly. Vea could be the guy, but 7 is too high in my opinion. Sony Michel will be flying up draft boards after the combine but 7 is too high. Reckon Smith is interesting if 3-4 is the play. He is a wrecking ball and he and Beckwith can both come off the edge as can Spence if he is healthy. He may be BPA at 7. BTW, as a Nole I have nothing but respect for Taven Bryan and if he is available in 2nd- I draft that kid all day. We need guys with hearts and motors and need to eventually draft Gerald’s replacement- he can’t go forever, his injuries are mounting up.
February 21st, 2018 at 10:21 am
@Dewey Selmon
There are 21 other positions teams can trade up for. It doesnt have to be a QB needy team. I do agree that the #7 pick doesnt have as much trade value as people seem to think it has.
February 21st, 2018 at 10:23 am
This is pure “fantasy football,” but why don’t we get crafty and look to trade for Chandler Jones from the Cards. Before you say, “Why the heck would they trade their best D-Lineman and one that led the league in sacks last year?” Because they don’t have a QB, and at pick #15, their likely picking through the QB leftovers – that’s why. Because they have a new coaching staff and that new staff likely wants to start their regime with a young franchise guy at QB – that’s why. Because the new coaching staff isn’t tied to anyone on the team and likely will clean house to bring in “their guys” – that’s why. Add in that Licht and Keim (GM for the Cards) are very good friends and that we have solid intel from the newly hired DL coach from the Cards in Buckner, and it’s not so far-fetched.
Here’s how it could go down: the Bucs trade their 7th overall pick to the Cards for Jones. The Cards take their new 7th and combine it with their 15th pick, and trade them to the Colts for the 3rd overall pick to get their franchise QB. The Colts need O-Linemen in the worst way, and the 7th pick should give them Nelson – the best lineman in the draft. Then, at pick #15, they can get Nelson’s line mate at ND, McGlinchey. This is a win-win-win.
@Joe – would you trade the 7th overall pick for a guy who’s in the prime of his career (Jones turns 28 in a couple days)? We need to do something like this to get a big name at DE! This would be exciting!
February 21st, 2018 at 10:29 am
If Chubb (biggest need) or Barkley (the TD maker) is there at 7 you pick them. Then to me it’s fitzpatick or James from FSU – they can match up somewhat with Julio Jones and look like studs (any decent player to stop td’s over the top is an improvement).
February 21st, 2018 at 10:42 am
Assuming no decent trade down offer comes – You pick the best (non-QB, LB, TE or WR) player on your board is what you do. That will likely be Nelson.
February 21st, 2018 at 10:44 am
You know, I see a lot of folks talking about standing pat and or trading down, but the one scenario I’d like to see fleshed out more is what it’s going to take to potentially move UP to grab Chubb or Barkley, if they’re at the top of the Bucs’ chart. In that respect, we’re taking a beating for beating the Saints on the value chart. Don’t get me wrong, we’re not one player away, but we need a real difference maker, a splash player. Someone to get excited about b/c he’s able to bolster this team right now. We don’t need a repeat of the ’16 class. We don’t need a Gaines Adams redux. We need to be bold.
February 21st, 2018 at 10:58 am
@Joe WHY DO YOU KEEP INSISTING ON A 34 DEFENSE WHEN NONE OF THOSE LINEBACKERS ARE PASS RUSHERS!?!? (Kwon, David, Beckwith, or ^Smith… Noah Spence MAYBE a different story) You know football better than this Joe, I am very disappointing in how many times you have brought this up. There is not a single defense in the NFL that plays a 34 defense with 4 43 LBs…. Come on Joe
February 21st, 2018 at 11:20 am
I’m still not sure Nelson is all that; his arms might be an inch short or his hands too soft or his callouses horizontal instead of vertical. Chubb is a different matter; I’ve seen him play, totally take over games. If the combine shows Nelson truly is the best interior lineman in a decade, you take him or Chubb or trade down.
Buffalo, Jacksonville, Washington are desperate; Arizona, Miami, Cincinnati and a couple others will be looking for their Mahomes. Pre-draft QB evaluations are pretty much an “eye of the beholder” thing. We can trade down and pick up a trove of picks if one of those teams sees the guy they really want at 7.
February 21st, 2018 at 11:31 am
Yeah lets keep drafting, for positions we don’t need! Take the second best DE or Vita or the best CB! If you can’t trust them to develop them, then we need a new coaching staff and the next one can develop them.
February 21st, 2018 at 11:33 am
Pickgrin
Hope you are correct and Nelson drops to us. Right now Walter has him going 5th but a lot can happen.
Nelson helps in a critical area of the trenches. Nelson and one FA and our OL could be quite good this year.
I get the all defense draft but I’m like D.R. LB’s…don’t think so we even have depth there. I get Minkah’s abilities but I simply do not wish to draft any back seven players….until we get a pass rush our back seven is just hung out to dry anyway.
February 21st, 2018 at 11:59 am
Everyone seems to be figuring this out a lot quicker this year that certain players just may not be there. So, finally everyone is talking about players that are a need and are top prospects and most likely will be there at #7. OG Nelson, and NT Vea as examples.
The one thing that is really throwing me for a loop this year is that there are lots of FA QBs and lots of 1st round QBs that can totally mess this draft up. My initial thinking was that tons of QBs would go early, but now I am totally changing my opinion.
I think the majority of QBs will go mid 1st round to the early 2nd round. Reasoning is both because of glut of QBs and teams would rather trade later into the late 1st round or early second.
There are also a lot of decent FA CBs than can be signed this year. They are not top tier, but they can ease the pain of drafting a CB early.
SO it is my opinion to go after a good RB to compliment Barber in FA, solid CB in FA, and if possible, secure a OC in FA.
Then go after the solid draft picks in the draft who will be available.
I would select NT Vea @ #7 and then look for DE Hubbard @ #39.
February 21st, 2018 at 12:04 pm
I can not imagine either Chubb or Barkley falling to us, but I like Vea and Nelson.
February 21st, 2018 at 12:22 pm
Always Draft D line and Oline in in 1st round.. everything else can be built around the anchors!! Drafting 101.. for get all these skill players there hurt every other week anyways…
February 21st, 2018 at 1:14 pm
@realist…..you dig yourself into a deeper hole with each excuse you make…..
you love to blame lovie and dom for this team finishing 5-11 but you were singing a different tune not too long ago…
The Buc Realist Says:
November 29th, 2016 at 7:05 am
@seanyMac in SC
do not let the past dictate your future!!! Why are you worried about what old gm’s and coaches did with teams????
***************************************************************
now your saying the dline must be rebuilt…..WTF?…..again that wasn’t the tune you were singing earlier….
The Buc Realist Says:
September 2nd, 2017 at 7:46 am
@Joe
why the panic???? Is this the same defensive line on the defense that as Warren Sapp described as “choking out teams”????????? is this not the roster with your “beasting Robert Ayers”???? Why were the Bucs top ten in sacks but the QB pressure was lower???? The answer is Coaching and scheme!!!! That is what made the defense work last year!!!!!!
so now the same defensive line that was “choking teams out” now needs to be rebuilt?…..what happened?……now the same dline that “made this defense work last year” all of a sudden needs to be rebuilt…..
keep making excuses….they’re falling on deaf ears…..luckily this staff has ran out of them…..they only have 2018 to get us to the playoffs….
you expect smitty to be successful at installing a 34 when he was unsuccessful at installing “HIS” 43 defense….OK….that will be the quickest way to get smitty and dirk fired!!!!
#NOEXCUSESIN2018!!!!…GO BUCS!!!!
February 21st, 2018 at 1:23 pm
Kirwin is spot on. Dirk has only one concern, Keeping his and smitty’s job. To do this he’d better concentrate 100% on Defense. His was in the bottom 4 of the entire NFL. IF..our Bucs were smart, and Chubb was not there, they would find a trading partner and try to get 2 for 1 in the 1st round. But that takes..Smarts huh? However after watching film on Vea, he is the man. So if he”s there, its hard to tuen him down. But please no Nelson. We got a plethera of Defensive needs.That is IF..Koetter wants to finish at least 8-8 to keep his job.
February 21st, 2018 at 4:18 pm
If we don’t get a game changing RB in the Deaft and FA it doesn’t matter if we draft all Defense, This team will suckvAGAIN
February 21st, 2018 at 5:37 pm
For the people saying corner would be a terrible decision that high, I sure as hell am going to take Minkah if he’s still on the board. My dream is Davenport at #7 (if Chubb is not there of course). He’s a man-beast. And trade back into the first for Vea. We have the money in FA to pick up proven players while losing those picks. The d-line in FA is not looking good but there’s some good looking secondary. Draft CB, OG, S, and D-line. Not in that order neceisarrily.
Carlos Hyde.
February 21st, 2018 at 11:42 pm
Drafting a LB at #7 would be idiotic and akin to what Matt Millen did when he was running the Lions and drafting WR after WR … stupid.